Topic: Flashbangs

The FBI used flashbang grenades to prevent Branch Davidians from collecting rainwater in the courtyard starting April 7, 1993. On Good Friday, April 9, Steve Schneider received permission to light incense canisters, but the FBI simultaneously decided they would not fight any fires that might develop. That same evening, Schneider was targeted with a flashbang grenade while attempting to speak with agents near a tank.

The discussion reviews the status of various individuals associated with Mount Carmel, including those who left during the 51-day standoff and those arrested while trying to enter the property. Doyle describes how David Koresh and Steve Schneider negotiated the release of 30 people, mostly children, early in the siege. He contrasts this with the increasing hostility of the tactical teams who used barbed wire and flashbang grenades to intimidate those remaining inside.

Oil field worker Tony Castillo and his family recount a violent early-morning raid on their home involving flashbangs and masked agents. Castillo alleges that unidentified individuals in black ski masks broke windows, used grenades, and held his children at gunpoint with AR-15s despite finding no drugs on the premises. The family describes the psychological trauma of the event, including being cursed at by agents and the physical injuries sustained during the forced entry.

The Castillo family details the specific use of three flashbang grenades during the raid, including one thrown near a sleeping child. They argue that the use of such force constitutes child endangerment and describe the extensive physical damage left behind in their home. Tony Castillo notes that he must now work extra hours to repair the property damage himself because the seized funds have not been returned.

Clive Doyle discusses the backgrounds of federal agents involved in the raid, claiming four were former bodyguards for Bill Clinton. He suggests some agent injuries and deaths resulted from friendly fire or accidents, such as an agent falling from a ladder, rather than Davidian gunfire.

Doyle recounts a recorded phone call where negotiators told Steve Schneider to get fire insurance after asking about fire extinguishers. He describes instances where federal agents threw flashbang grenades at Davidians during agreed-upon rendezvous, illustrating a "good cop, bad cop" dynamic between negotiators and tactical teams.

Reports indicate that Delta Force plans to move its training exercises to Austin, Texas, after June 1998. The hosts criticize Austin Mayor Kirk Watson for potentially accepting the training despite a history of property damage and injuries in other cities. A specific incident in Miami is cited where a "ceramic bullet" allegedly went through a window near a crowded restaurant during a similar military exercise.

The speaker explains the legal difference between knock and no-knock warrants, asserting the ATF served their warrant illegally by using flashbangs and helicopters simultaneously. He compares the demonization of the Davidians to the treatment of Randy and Vicky Weaver at Ruby Ridge. Thibodeau emphasizes the trauma of children hearing their dogs being shot by agents.

The discussion turns to the technical and legal nature of flashbang or stun grenades used during the siege. Host Mike Hanson and the guests reference court testimony where ATF officers admitted these devices are classified as "destructive devices" under federal law. They argue that despite being characterized as benign by some officials, these devices possess significant concussive force and can be lethal.

A caller argues that David Koresh could have been arrested peacefully while jogging or shopping in town prior to the raid. Doyle confirms that Koresh had even invited agents to inspect his weapons the previous year. Testimony from the trial suggested that the ATF planned to use dynamic entry and grenades regardless of whether Koresh attempted to surrender peacefully at the front door, indicating a commitment to a violent tactical plan.

Survivors admit to an initial naivety, believing they would simply sit on the lawn while agents searched the building and then return inside. However, as the siege progressed, any resident who stepped outside was met with aggression. Steve Schneider, David Jones, and Pablo Cohen were reportedly targeted with flashbang grenades during agreed-upon rendezvous or while performing maintenance tasks like digging waste pits.

A detailed analysis of infrared video from the plane flying above Mount Carmel suggests that shooters were positioned on either side of tanks firing into the building. Autopsy reports for 15 victims showed bullet wounds to the center of the head and chest, which is characterized as inconsistent with suicide. The presence of 98 automatic weapon shots during the final minutes of the siege contradicts official government narratives regarding the events at the back of the building.

Ophelia Santoyo, who lost six family members including her daughter Julie Martinez and five grandchildren, explains that they were too afraid to exit the building during the siege. She cites the destruction of their cars, motorcycles, and children's toys by tanks as the reason for their terror. Santoyo also mentions reports of tactical teams throwing flashbang grenades at people who attempted to communicate with lawyers or the government.