Waco The Final Assault 1995 And 1996 By David Thibodeau [7g4mfU9anAU]

00:00 I love Mike Hanson Archives. Get ready to run! Folks, this is Mike Hanson and this first tape part one is going to be by David Thibodeau Waco Fire Survivor and I think it's one of his best speeches that I've ever seen And this was from 1995, the Waco final assault. In this actual videotape, the original came from Wyla

00:41 a good friend of the Branch Davidians estate when she passed away. The estate was actually passed on to Clive Doyle and he couldn't handle it so he gave the estate archives to me, and I'm trying go through them and get everything put on the internet that she's collected over practically her whole life about Waco and other subjects. But Wyla, I met Wyla in 1995 along with Catherine Madison when they moved to Austin Texas And then of course they started bringing all their

01:28 Branch Davidians on to our TV shows, which we had access TV shows at the time. Myself Mike Hanson Jeff Davis and then later on Alex Jones and that's how we got involved with the branch Davidians which are great people and I've never been as mad is a hell when I found out the whole situation at Mount Carmel. And then later on, of course we got a volunteer effort together to rebuild at least the church there at Mount Carmel which was a great time in my life I loved doing it and

02:20 So here it is folks. This is by David Thibodeau from 1995 and this is a great presentation, David if I say so myself It really taught me a lot about what happened to y'all out there And then we're gonna have part two which will be from 1996 April 19th, the day of the fire when one of the tanks ran over the phone and while they're CS gas against us there was absolutely no way for us to get in contact with them. You know just one of many tactics that tape is particularly powerful for me a little bit later on David starts talking about America and how this isn't no longer

03:10 you know, if the authorities have the right and power to come on our property and put tanks around us and start shooting at us. And then make us look like...make us look like we're the aggressors then obviously that's too much power. It is time for a power balance and you all know the outcome What were going to do today focus on April 19th and the events of the fire, and the amount of CS gas that was used. And what I'm going to try to show is that the fire was calculated, the fire was thought out, and that the fire had nothing to do with people on the inside as the government has claimed over and over that it was Koresh and the people inside planned and set fires

04:13 One cult deprogrammer, Rick Ross. You may have heard of this guy He was the deprogramer if you will The cult authority that the government was working with Actually said that we had been planning a fire for six months And that it was part of religious teaching and I would like to know what study he sat in on Because i lived there for two years and wasn't privy to any study like that For a person who's consulting the government To get up at public forum and say that we were planning something He's talking out of ignorance and out of deceit, and he doesn't know what the heck David Koresh was teaching. He doesn't know what David was presenting And he doesn't have any right to say the things that he did as well as some federal authorities, Jeffrey Jamar The four or five separate lies that I can place him in As well as the ATF commanders who every day at a press conference during 51-day siege changed their story

05:10 The ATF story changed every single day on a daily basis. Absolutely changed and then later on it was found out that the raid planners were guilty of trying to cover up information for the government, the two raid planners in question are Konyacki and Sarabin and they lost their jobs and they're going to take the ATF to court what they wanted to do is they were gonna subpoena some cellular phone conversations between Washington and the on-ground commanders at Waco. And as soon as the government found out they were going to subpoena these phone conversations, they gave them their jobs back with back pay and took care of all their legal expenses which indicates when they started to point higher up those people who are higher didn't want to be targeted from the people in power that have the power take positions and give positions gave them their positions back despite the fact

06:07 87 people died, despite the fact that they were wrong and that they lied consistently and continuously not only throughout the siege but to this very day. And despite the fact that they got in front of Congress on a stand and hostage rescue team member and um... The federal coordinators literally lied I know it's not politically correct to say the word lie, I should say fabricate But you know what? When I've been lied to, to the extent that I have through my experience. I'll call it what it is and I'll call them what they are These people don't have the honor And if they don't have the honor To uphold The oath of office that they took In public service and the oath that they took for law enforcement They don't deserve their positions If a federal agent gets on the stands and lies They shouldn't be walking around in jail for perjury

07:18 They lie with impunity because they have complete immunity. So remember that and you can bet that if I get on the stand and lie, I would be in jail right now And the fact that they're not shows the unjustness of this judicial system Of this federal government...of this immense power that this nation has established to pervert the truth and control people and masses through something called a propaganda model which they have down to a scientific, to a science and they utilize consistently. I have the tendency to talk a little bit too long so i'm going to move right into them slideshow presentation now and events that occurred on April 19th for those of you who were here yesterday my talk focused on yesterday the subject that was talking about was The Untold Story of Waco basically it was building up to April 19th talking about meeting David

08:21 and being introduced to the group, starting the studies of the seven seals. Something called The Seven Seals that at first I really had no interest in then once they started to get a little deeper it became the most fascinating subject that i've ever come across and it changed my life It changed my life because I was actually studying every single day as opposed just playing working trying to get by Once I started this study I started find out Once you have a concept of God, He will provide for you. Even if you have to go through hard times and hardships those hardships are to mold you and those hardships can make you new And those hardship should bring you through the next test...to come So I feel fortunate in the sense that there is a bigger test Let me put it this way Waco was my personal tragedy

09:20 But I feel that we're headed for more personal tragedies, that everyone in this room is going to affect one way or another. And if you've even been in this building and cut through all the press has said about the preparedness shows... We got blasted pretty hard in Denver and tried to say there was a militia meeting not a preparedness expo when they came out. The press found out there were all these people with herbs and freeze-dried food and clothing, first aid kits. It was like wow! They didn't really expect to come to an herbalist meeting I think even more so than a patriotic meeting which just shows the range in the scope that Dan and the preparedness shows here are trying to cover And that scope is complete preparedness for whatever natural disaster But um...I think we understand the underlying depths of it better That is not the militia or patriotic movement to be feared

10:18 The patriotic movement, the militia movement was put into play as a defensive technique to be used against this extreme power just outrageously out of control. But it was put into defense and I don't understand why the government doesn't realize that we're not the radicals but they are When they have a tank and they drive it onto someone's property, and they go in with 75 to 100 armed agents shooting at the building that they are the aggressors. And not people that are being oppressed. That is something we want to focus on here today. Is there a way we can get back lights off here? Back lights I really need off of the most

11:20 This first picture, it's going to be hard to see but I'm going try and describe it a little. It is the BATF raid when they are coming out of the cattle trailers and assaulting the front of the building. And I talked about that yesterday so I am not really going into that today. Ok there is a picture of the building Mount Carmel this as you can tell during the siege this was the day Please note that the tanks have gone around the building in circles consistently throughout 51 days and they've cleared all the vegetation, they've cleared anything that is burnable away from the building. And they built a fire break around the building I think thats pretty plain to see We burned our field off at what point we had to build...we had to clear a segment around the area where we wanted it burned so it wouldn't spread Same principle here Firebreak Ok this is really hard to see but this building here

12:26 This is called the Macbag and that's a building we were renting about 2 miles away from Mount Parmal. And this building is where Michael Schroeder and Peter Hipsman would work on cars, David Koresh had a vehicle rebuilding company basically they would take old Mustangs and especially Camaros and rebuild them There's an interesting story with this building. During the raid, the government found out about this and they went down there with a tank and called the guy that owns it, he said we need to get into your building down there to find evidence And they said we're going to drive the tank through the door, just nudge it in He said don't do that I'm on my way down, bring me keys right now By the time you got here, the tank had gone through his front of the building totally destroying it

13:18 and they got what they were looking for, they found 4 whole shotgun shells casings. So there's their evidence And the guy shows up with his keys to find his building destroyed and on the front of the building after it was boarded up it says ATF & FBI knows how to lie Destroyed by the US government, ATF and FBI joint venture is what it says on the building. Obviously some militia radical wrote that on the building right folks? Okay this is a picture, this is pretty interesting This was one of the pictures done by one of the children who exited the building during the 51 day siege And they drew a little house and they had the rainbow which is symbol of God's word That God's Word is true

14:07 And on the little house they started to take a crayon and went like this, you know, dot through the roof. The psychologist said what is that? I said well that's bullet holes. The childrens own testimony and i have video tape. This one here is called Inside Mount Carmel and these are interviews with the people on the inside of the building, and they're talking about what their experience was during the 51 day siege. Okay? It's about 53 different people who were interviewed including the children And they talk about where they were, what happened to them There is one kid in particular Isaiah Who talks about his experience with a cowering on the floor while the ATF was shooting into the building and after it was all over finding a bullet between the rug

14:57 and the floor by his feet. That's how close he was to being hit." And it's pretty powerful to hear this from a kid. I think another thing that I want to mention about the siege before we move on is the fact that one of the BATF groups was to go to the front of the building, one was to serve as search warrant but they didn't even have, they said later got shot up on the dashboard and the other group was to suppress the dogs that were in appendage area of the building at the front of the building Alaska Mollie Newfoundland and her four pups The first thing they did was shoot these dogs murdering them One of the dogs, Fawn ran around in a circle for about 3 or 4 minutes yelping before one of my very best friends who is no longer with us Greg Summers had to put her out of misery and it was Greg that raised these dogs from pups. It was very hard for him Can you imagine what it was like for the children on the second story listening to their dogs being slaughtered in front yard?

15:59 This shows our frustration being cut off from the press and just having to listen every night to the news and hearing how we're being presented as these crazy, radical religious idiots. So finally we actually put on a sheet and Cliff Sellers who was one of the most talented gifted artists I'd ever known in my life quickly put this on it says FBI God Seize Your Eyes, Habakkuk 314 We put probably five or six different messages during the siege out for the people who made front page every single day. This was one of the ones because we were so upset listening to stories being manipulated and here's a quick example of one of those stories One of those stories is revolving around a guy named Michael Schroeder who was down at the mag bag that day with two other people

16:47 They heard about the siege, they heard that Mel Carmel had just been attacked and shot at. And they wanted to get back into the building. Mike Schroeder had a young son in the building and he was trying to get back into the building. Six o'clock that evening a news report comes on Well, it's actually more around 7 o'clock and the news reports said that at around dusk this evening three armed cult members quote-unquote exited the building all guns blazing of federal agents. One was killed and the other two were taken into custody That's how it was reported in the press. We're walking around asking different people who left? Let's take a tally, did anybody actually leave the building and why? No one had left so we couldn't really understand this until later when we found out that Mike Schroeder was found dead He was shot six times he was shot trying to enter the building to the side of the property

17:42 and he was found on a fence where his body was left for three days before they saw fit to remove him via helicopter and a meat hook. He lay there And the report is, they, the government of course reported that he had a gun but one of the ATF agents was reported later landed in a helicopter next to his body and took the gun. It was never heard from again so that was their story I think my story would be that he was an unarmed man who had a stun-gun on the inside pocket of his jacket that was found trying to enter the building with his young son They reported it That he was exiting the building all guns blazing like we were some kind of fools and idiots just absolute zealots

18:23 crazy lunatic religious freaks so who's in charge of the propaganda? There is Jeffrey Jamar and Dan Conroy, the ATF. Jeffrey Jamar was the special agent in charge at the FBI of the entire Waco fiasco if I may call it that. Jeffrey is retired now and I don't know if any of you have seen him on any reports or national shows, but he's not looking very good these days. He has got some white hairs and he is looking like he has been put through the wringer I guess that is what happens when you consistently lie to the American public continuously and then have to live with yourself after it. Let me give you example a little later on we get to a specific slide I'm going talk about one of the lies that I heard sitting in jail cell which just angered be beyond all belief

19:28 So let's not forget this face. There is one of the motorcycles that was run over by the tanks, we had on the property a trailer load of motorcycles about 12 and part of our punishment for not coming out was the tanks tipping the motorcycles over and running over them This was a trailer owned by a German woman about 70 years old her name was Trudy This is all that she had in the world. It's her little trailer she lived in during the siege, the tanks ran over it splitting into two making a look like a sardine can you just cut open She was 70 years old. She still alive today but she has nothing Okay this pretty interesting and this probably around 1030

20:22 10 or so, we see the tank is pulled around to the back of the building and he's now entering the corner of the gym area. Now please remember there was immediate blackout on the back of the building so no one got to see this going on all you saw was the front of the building You didn't see him destroy the building like this and were gonna see as the slide show progresses that amount of destruction that the tanks wreaked havoc on this building knocking it off its foundation like it was the site of an earthquake which is another subject I'm going to talk about in relation to fire. I live in California and many Californians know when you have a earthquake, you get a lot of fires scattered throughout the city no difference here. Okay he's almost fully into the building now pulling out whole corner has gone

21:16 The roof top has just collapsed and now he's going to try to drive a 10-15 ton tank onto the roof. Let's see what happens. It didn't fare very well, did it? I guess the tank...the roof isn't gonna support this tank So there is the big hole from trying to drive on the roof and the debris And there is a little better picture of destruction Now while they are driving their tanks into the building we have a loud speaker on the front Remember that we have no negotiation with them because they cut us off at this point They ran over the cord and they're saying come on out, this siege is over you are under arrest come out with your hands up. I challenge the most physically fit person in here on a good day without the 40 mile an hour winds that were prevalent down in Waco to walk out of this hole where the tank has just come into over all this debris into at this point the camp of the enemy so when the tank goes through your front door any kind of harmonization or

22:27 friendship or even mutual respect is over. And we see the tank at the front of the building starting to enter the building one thing Jeffrey Jermar said in a congressional hearing was that no time did any two tanks enter into the building only one tank, ever entered and exited the building I couldn't understand why he was saying this because originally they said that no tanks had ever entered the building I couldn't understand why he was saying this because we have a picture right here of two tanks in the building at the same time. I mean we have the picture pictorial evidence from their own surveillance plane flying 2 miles above Mount Carmel, would that constitute perjury? Again there's a tank in front that is an infamous tank, the infamous Linda Thompson video with flame throwing tanks which again are not flame throwing

23:25 That tank exits the building and the building doesn't start burning for another 30 to 40 minutes after that tank exits. And if you see the uncut video footage of this tank from the ground exiting a building, You see the tank as it pulls up a hill, you see something reflected reflecting sunlight on the turret and it looks like a flame It's one of greatest optical illusions I've ever seen but nonetheless is an optical illusion Please I want put to rest for once and for all that is not a flame throwing tank, and Linda Thompson did a good thing in the sense she incited enough people to open their eyes about Waco but she did it with only 60% truth. And that's tragedy That why this movement if you will gets discredite

24:11 That's why they can have a nightline presentation and play these audio tapes that have been digitalized, digitalized and brought up in the government studio saying that people inside started the fire. And not having anyone there like myself or some of the fire investigators we've hired to counteract what they're saying. That's why when I was supposed to go on Larry King Live, I was cancelled for Sharon Stone. Goes to show the amount of this control once again Anyway, two tanks in the building at the same time. That is not a flamethrower tank. More destruction in the back and now he's doing more in front of me. You can see that I don't have a pointer but over to my right hand side the front doors are collapsed into the building and please note there are 2 double doors at this point

25:06 Two doors. The trials in San Antonio, one of the doors was entered into evidence two steel doors and the other one was not when the defense attorneys asked where the other steel door was the government said oh that must have disintegrated in a fire obviously covered up evidence, it's not going to send us a steel door. The door right next to it is thoroughly intact Now the reason they said this was because later on Jack Zimmerman one of the attorneys that went inside during the 51 day siege and saw the doors and saw the bullet holes coming through the doors said that majority of the bullet holes were coming from outside into the building indicating that initial assault was just this...it was not

25:42 the ATF propaganda film that you've seen where there's six or seven parish members waiting at the front door and just open fire, but in reality it was the BATF agents firing into the building with an amazing amount of fire power which by the way killed Perry Jones who was a 60-70 year old man unarmed man at the front door shot him in the stomach. The autopsy report by the way says that Perry Jones was killed in a shot to the mouth. We believe that Perry or someone there put Perry out of his misery because Perry was screaming all the way down the hall and he was asking to die but nonetheless, that's the only wound that is shown on this particular autopsy report is the one at the mouth they said nothing wrong with stomach and we got the guy on tape in background screaming

26:40 because of a stomach wound. So again, there's an autopsy report that has been tampered with Marybel Jones didn't want to bury the body for some time because of this and basically that is just one more aspect of an autopsy report that has been covered and has been tampered with Okay, fire has begun in the left hand corner I need to talk about something before we get into the fire though The amount of CS gas used in the building that day was criminal CS gas is a gas that is banned internationally. When we go to war with the country, for example Saudi Arabia, we're not allowed to use CS because it's riot control agent used outdoors according to the manufacturer handbook on CS gas Never CS gas be used in an indoor controlled environment particularly because it will kill young children and women with smaller respiratory tracts that can't handle this gas

27:42 anyone in the military that has had to go into a tear gas, chances are... excuse me. Into a tear gas booth chances are that's CS Gas and you will know the effect of CS Gas and how it burns your eyes, your nasal cavities, your skin. The amounts that were used that day The means of gas delivery during the assault and what I'm quoting here is a failure analysis report. Failure analysis was a scientific community that was hired to do the report on Waco, basically they've investigated this Bay Shutter Challenger explosion in the Oklahoma City bombing these are people that government has worked with in the past People who can be respected it says here

28:28 40mm ferret rounds were launched from conventional military M79 grenade launchers by personnel inside five Bradley fighting vehicles. Each ferret round contains 3.7 grams of CS dissolved and 33.25 grams of methylene chloride. Methylene chloride is the propellant to spread the gas throughout the room. Protojet Model 5 anti-fog ejectors mounted to the booms of two combat engineering vehicles or CEVs. A CEV is basically an M60 tank with a boom replacing the main gun Four ejectors were mounted on a CEV1 while 2 ejectors were mounted on a CEV2 Each model 5 ejector, M5 consisted of a pressurized bottle containing 30 grams of CS dissolved in 1070 grams of methylene chloride and 700 grams of carbon dioxide propellant

29:30 Total gas delivered in four different gas assaults on Mount Carmel that morning were 20 M5 bottles at 366 to 386 faragrounds. A faraground is a 40 millimeter shell fired into a building, it is barricade breaking and will go through windows sheetrock, it'll go through your head if you get hit by one And one of the reports from the inside is that Jimmy Riddle got hit in the gas mask with one of these ferret rounds. I saw him personally embedded in a wall They're supposed to be plastic so they'll break upon impact. The one that I saw was it looked like it was stainless steel, It had one body on the front and it was attached with three fins on the back about maybe a little bit smaller than a Coca-Cola can And I studied for about ten minutes because at the time I thought it was very significant. I didn't think I was going to live to tell about this particular bottle and I was quite shocked when I exited the building and wasn't shot but we'l get into that later

30:32 So 20 M5 bottles and 366 ferret rounds were delivered approximately 1,900 grams of CS and 33,000 grams of methylene chloride. It also says that CS concentrations in the kitchen and dining room areas which is where the kids were, were approximately nine times that required to deter trained soldiers. Nine times! Why didn't y'all come out? The fire is pretty much raging right now. You can see the back is engulfed, the area that I came out of with about Jamie Cascio and Derek Lovelock and Clive Doyle and myself there's a big hole that one of the tanks made in the building you know as you saw the tanks go into the building they made like two or three major holes in front you can see here let me show you something significant

31:46 One of the booms tore the corner off that building and it's really interesting where they did that, why they chose the second story. They tore the corner off because that is where the hallway begins that goes all the way down to the length of Mount Carmel. Where do you think the wind was blowing from on that day? From this direction or that direction? See the flames moving in that way? What happens when you have 40 mile an hour winds and you put immense holes in a building through every corner, destroying the back of the building totally? You get an oxygen flow through the system conducive to burning the place up like that. I had friends that had spoken to fire investigators and fire marshals and they were watching this on the morning of April 19th and actually said to their friends and spouses who were close by, The government is going to burn down that place

32:40 You don't put holes in a building like that if you're anticipating the fire. That's fire marshals, anyway we see the amount of holes and destruction and with 40 mile-an-hour winds that flame was just ripping down that hallway I still want to talk about that right now where i was during the last day was right here on the chapel and what happened Well, I was sitting there listening to the radio and we were listening to the Ron Engelman show. Ron Engelman had a patriotic radio station he was the only person that we could tell that was even somewhat sympathetic on our side uh...that was in the press and he was simply saying no matter what Koresh is guilty of um..we treat prisoners of war better than these people we haven't given them medical supplies or

33:34 any kind of doctor to go in there. He wanted to go in, he had a plan to go with the film crew and some surgeons that had volunteered and the government would not allow that but he would... he had James Taborn Phil Arnold two of the theologians on during the siege we would listen to them And out of that came the first sealed manuscript I have a copy at my booth. I also want to mention really quickly I put together information packet it's my congressional testimony the letter that I wrote. A lot of people ask me about Carrie Jewell, who was the young girl in Congress saying she was molested by Koresh and you need to read this letter from her grandmother that she wrote to congress but it's never covered and basically says the amount of time Carrie Jewell claimed to be living in Mount Carmel is she was living in Anaheim California with her grandmother and then her story doesn't jive so I think this is interesting letter for people to know

34:28 Back here at the very end I have an 8 page letter from Jack Zimmerman, the attorney inside. And he talks about what he saw The evidence is of helicopter fire through the ceiling as well as the missing door and the amount of gunfire that was coming into the building Very interesting letter Anyway...I heard Ron Egan when he was saying you know guys gotta come out they're not gonna stop this David please come out He cut to a commercial When i heard the commercial a commercial said, it was in newscasts and it said the Branch of Indian compound down in Waco Texas is being I can't remember if this had been assaulted by the FBI Janet Reno has okayed tear gas plant, of course they didn't say CS Gas Plant and the building is being tear gassed. And the FBI received over 80 to 20 gunshots on their CEV's but they were claiming that they have not fired back into the building Now when I heard that report my jaw dropped

35:28 I was sitting in the chapel area and I was watching people reading their bibles as the tanks were coming in. We weren't stupid, we understood that a 223 round isn't going to penetrate an armored vehicle and I was shocked. My heart sank in my chest because I knew right then that we were being set up for a massacre to that point, I still had hope when the government said they had received over 200 gunshots on their CEVs between 80 and 200 I knew that was again the last lie And that we were being setup for a masacre and it was over There was no hope of establishing negotiations at this point and after that point i was still hopeful Now im not saying

36:15 that someone may not have fired from the other end of the building and maybe I didn't hear it. That's a possibility What i'm saying is, I did not hear any gunshots the whole morning which was why I was so shocked when I heard the report that they were receiving fire Again, It was the last line to the American public before people were massacred Just another shot at hole in back with smoke And again this comes from the FLIR video which is an infrared video and that video was taken from a plane, surveillance plane two miles above Mount Carmel. These are the color still photos someone is up there snapping pictures with the colors still and that's what this slideshow presentation is Again there are the 2 tanks one at front and another just exiting in back again 2 tanks entering the building at the same time as Jeffrey Jamar said of Congress only 1 tank at any one time ever enter The 2 tanks That actually really good picture both tanks in the building at the same time Mr. Jamar

37:41 You know what, I'm going backwards. A different angle and again you can see the hole that i came out of better here. Note the corner of the building taken off by one of the tanks, the boom, note the destruction in the back There's a tank at the front of the building now because this place is pretty much gone. Um...I'm gonna back up a little Now after I had heard this report

38:36 During the course of the next hour, the tanks stepped up their activities and were pushing more gas. They would actually come up to the building and spray in CS gas by M5 bottles Someone yelled from upstairs...and I was down here again in church area someone yelled that there was a fire upstairs That's all I had heard And I was shocked with this At this point I was thinking oh my god where is Serenity? Where is Isaiah some of his children? I hope they are being put on underground bus We had a bus that was buried on the far side of the building, right over in that area and the plan in any emergency was to get them to the bus. So... The front was destroyed, the front staircase leading up to second story was destroyed by the tank so I had to go to the back and there was another staircase that led upstairs to the second storey right where David Kresher's room was And I got halfway up the stair case you can see by the destruction there I could see the door to the second store but couldn't get it because of the amount of debris facing the door

39:40 So what I had to do was crawl up on David Koresh's bedroom floor, which is right here. And I had to lift myself onto the floor and go through all this debris that was glass and it took me some time to maneuver through his room Then I came into the next adjacent area which is a office space right here There was catwalk that led over the roof of the chapel area I mean over the rafters, not over the roof but the rafters of the chapel area to the second story. And i took that and got to the second story door well that led to the second storey on the front of building there was a curtain there, blanket and it was our door because we were still constructing Mount Carmel and I opened the blanket and big black dust of smoke came at me and had to move my head back so not get hit with

40:35 And as the smoke dissipated, I went to stick my head into that hallway to get in there. To get the kids and make sure they would be put on a bus where i felt they'd be safest and a wall of flame shot down the hallway in front of me. That's the only way I can describe it, and it was one of the loudest sounds that I had ever heard my life And then my hearing is little damaged anyway from being a drummer all my life But there was just no way to describe this sound It was amazing you couldn't hear anything else like they're here any any screams nothing? And so after that I knew that I couldn't get into that building I knew I couldn't get in that segment and I went back away I came and I ended up downstairs

41:13 And at this point there was smoke everywhere. I took my jacket off and my black leather jacket was peppered with all these little white spots from the CS gas. I took the jacket off because it didn't matter that when it was incredibly hot, my gas mask wasn't even working. At this point I took that off and I was on my knees and I was praying because I thought this is it. Now just praying to God and the wall to my right hand side caught fire, it singed the side of my face and I could hear my hair burning. When that happened I looked up and saw Jamie Cascio and Derek Lovelock go out of a hole right there And I followed suit behind them thinking no one's gonna make it out behind me

41:51 and I walked up the roadway, there was some mud here and I got stuck in it. So disoriented once I got unstuck I started to walk up, I get about the end of the building then I turned back and saw Clive Doyle coming out of the building actually even before that right after I got out of the mud I turn around and saw Clive come out his arms were smoking he was patting him And as I walk up, we were told by the speaker systems to walk down the side of the road like halfway and I turn back literally see Mount Carmel. I'm going backwards again. Mount Carmel just literally ablaze like this that's a pretty good depiction. About half way out and I turn around I see someone fall out of this window

42:46 It was one of those windows and that was Marjorie Thomas I found out later. And she didn't even seem to jump, it seemed like she almost didn't want to go and just kind of slid out the window and did a 360, 380 and landed on her back. Then you just turn around...it's all like a movie You're looking at one scene and the camera pans and then you see this scene and then the camera pans back That's just ummm....It was all in slow motion Rennes Abraham by the way, and another problem I want to concentrate on. That's not a government agent on the roof that is Rennes Abraham. I was in his jail cell later and we spoke about this and he couldn't take fire anymore so he got out on the roof And didn't want to go down to the FBI thinking they were going to hurt him or shoot him He told me later that he was waiting for the roof to be shot so it would end quickly

43:39 And then finally when he wasn't shot, the flames became too bad and he jumped down and walked away. Again that's not a government agent as Linda Thompson says I'm sorry Linda That's Renis Abraham So he walks away...that was the thought that i had to coming out of the building I didn't want to exit the building but I felt at that point better be shot in the head than go really quickly than burn to death. I walked out and my surprise is I kept walking We're going to talk a little more about this in a second, I'm gonna have to hurry this through. You can't see this very clearly as the segment of building down here you see figure? No that's Ruth Riddle now Ruth Riddle exited the building and then that was one thing that government said one of the cult members quote unquote exited the building and then ran back into the building and FBI agent had to grab her uh... to save her life

44:37 Now, she exited the building and saw something that was more fearful to her than the fire. And now it's the federal agents That's her again Notice the debris over here by the way I'm going to show you a picture later of this razor wire they put around the building It is no wonder she went back into the building There is the razor wire They surrounded the building with that I wouldn't want to fall in there Oh by the way Misti Ferguson An 18 year old young incredibly brave lady

45:14 who survived the fire, she lost all her fingers and the gas mask melted to her face. She said later to a mother that she tried to go one area of the building and jump out but there was so much debris against the building that she couldn't so she had to go to the other side of the building and thats when the floor caved in and her hands went down the fire Here we have a picture of a tank with three FBI agents and notice their backs

45:55 It's really hard to see. Linda Thompson again, I hate to bring this name up calls these flamethrowers they're not they're oxygen tanks and they have oxygen masks on them Now the government had no fire plan They had no fire plan whatsoever Why are these agents equipped with oxygen tanks prepared for a fire? Why did they have an infrared video system in a plane two miles above Mount Carmel if they were not anticipating a fire Here's an FBI agent, he just walked out of the house across the street and as you can see he is posing for a picture in front of the burning building of Mount Carmel like it was some kind of trophy picture. Now Jeffrey Jamar said on one of those national evening programs that

46:48 This was a malicious attempt to demonize the government that he was not posing for a picture but he happened walk out and happened turn around someone snapped his picture. I do not have the other picture, but i have seen it and am trying to get it We have a picture of head FBI negotiator Byron Sage in very same spot In very same trophy picture Posing infront of burning Mount Carmel So I would like to testify in content to what you said on the national show Mr. Jamar. It's really interesting, the FBI looked at this thing all wrong You got the negotiators and we saw this they did a special on negotiations And they showed the FBI negotiator sitting in their trailer They had a picture of David Koresh On the wall and there sitting there and I can picture it for 51 days frustrated with this guy that just want to go home

47:46 And they're looking at this guy every day going, that's the enemy and we have to kill him. We have to get rid of this guy! We have to bring him into custody and punish him or just do away with him as the enemy Now we sent them out again...this videotape the inside Mon Carmel tape of the different people and different children. And they said in their Justice Department report that they didn't give this to the press because they felt it would cause much sympathy and support for the Davidians, which obviously they couldn't massacre us if they had this sympathy and support from the people right? They had to totally control the media and propagate what they were doing in Waco which was mass murder That's what they said consistently All I can say is that the peoples testimonies are a little more powerful than that

48:37 Anyway, there are two pictures in existence of this particular trophy picture. There's the fireball, the flame ball at this point I'm at first ATF...the FBI checkpoint they got me down on the ground They got my arms strapped behind my back and there was an agent coming down in front each of us And he is saying you know where are women? Where are children? You have to live with us for rest your life! Where are kids?! I said, they should be in the underground bus. You guys know all about it you should go there that's where they should be and that agent with a notepad looked up at another Burley agent he had a black mustache and he had a firearm in his hand And he looked down and he said oh we tear gassed that bus I was just thinking you tear gassed that bus

49:21 Not only did they tear gas it, but some of the reports indicated that the debris when the tanks went into the building actually landed on top of a trap door leading to the bus so no one could get to the bus. And there were couple bodies found near that trap door apparently trying to get in. The buildings almost gone now. Okay plenty water where are the fire trucks? How come I see no fire trucks at this point? Plenty of water supply to put on this fire No trucks place is almost destroyed That, by the way if you remember on the tape David Cursa's talking about a property being destroyed and the custom El Camino that cannot be replaced. That is the custom El Camino they are using it as park bench now that they ran over. That is part of what I was talking about this destruction here there the agents are hanging out in back watching building burn There is the destruction There is one fire truck up at very end If you notice its an old pumper just showed up on scene You were little late

50:37 a tank in front of the burning building. They're waving the American flag and if you recall, once the place was totally destroyed and burned to the ground they put the American flag, the state of Texas flag and the BATF flag on our flagpole that flew those flags like it was some victory like they had just conquered some country And now we finally see the fire trucks again you see Paul Faddis Alcamino We have one fireman with one stream of water putting out the ashes

51:20 Incidentally, the fire trucks and ambulances were on hand. They were told to stand down a few days before the fire and they're viewing it on the screen, Mount Carmel burning. They finally get a call saying well Mount Carmel is burning! And the firefighters are like yeah we know you better get up here. They get there and then held at their first checkpoint for 20 minutes where they're allowed to go on Now what do we have here? Really interesting picture There's a tank pushing debris into the destroyed smoldering ruins. There's no excuse, no need for this tank to be doing anything. They say they're containing the fire...for what? There is no vegetation! They built a fire break around the building What's he doing?! He's destroying more evidence. They destroyed the evidence of February 28th,

52:12 They destroyed the building, they destroyed most of the witnesses and now they're continuing to destroy evidence. The original plan was once we exited the building that Texas Rangers would take over and have their investigation. Texas Rangers were held off the building for a complete 24 hour period after this place burned to ground Why do you think that is? Do you think your being told the truth? Do you think there's not evidence being covered up? Why do we have a missing door Why is there no video footage of the ATF raid from the very first minutes of it? They had camera and surveillance equipment set up across the street. It was a greatest raid in law enforcement history here in America, and they had no cameras. They said both cameras malfunctioned was their excuse when the FBI asked for the videotape of the early seconds of the raid. And then they said that we met them with fire...that it was an ambush. If that's the case why is all this missing evidence

53:06 You know, our claim is Correia went to the door and held his hand out and said hold on there's women and children here. And was shot at! Of course there is no evidence that this is there isn't that convenient? There's a close up of the tank pushing debris into the building after the place has been destroyed There is no excuse, there is no need for it as a criminal act they're destroying evidence They are getting away with it and their walking around these people are walking around still working for this government the Ron Horiyuchis of the world who killed Vicky Weaver and incidentally was at Mount Carmel. We believe him to be in one of the snipers nest, though we can't prove that yet Why aren't these people locked up? They are criminals I always have to pause when i show this picture I believe Janet Reno was lied to number 1 Though that is not a defense Because Janet Reno That's her job Is to be the chief law enforcement personnel Of The United States of America And for Janet Reno To get up

54:15 Every syndicated talk show, the day, the place burned to the ground say I stayed up late all night trying to worry about how we would save the children and what we would do for the kids. I just thought everything through. I tried to make every possible conclusion that I possibly could figure out tear gas plant was the best way to go and that we were using the most harmless form of tear gas available because I was considering the children. CS Gas, Mrs Reno is not the most harmless form of tear gas you can use but it's probably the most deadly. It's the worst thing you could have used and she still to this day... And the government to this day had their experts on there saying CS Gas is a harmless form of tear gases

55:06 when the Israelis know that you don't use CS gas in an enclosed environment and they are not allowed to under international treaty because of its harmful effects. You can't see this picture very well but we went through all the checkpoints, they took our clothes off, they videotaped our naked bodies, gave us these orange chutes to wear I'm the second person, you can't really see it. There's Jamie myself and Derek Lovelock being escorted by the marshals down there in Waco. There is the bus that we had... You can't really see it very well but the front of the bus was destroyed and I sat there watching the tank

55:54 ram the bus head on and move it about 100 yards back to the other side of the property. If you notice, the windows in the bus are totally destroyed that is not from the tank that is from FBI and ATF agents going onto the bus destroying the windows with the butts of their guns See this kind of anger? And hatred? To me some these ATF agents I have seen they would drive by the tanks and wound us I don't know why these people are so bitter. You know, I guess they were trying out for the National Football League and couldn't make the cut so they became government agents. I'm not really sure but when you take an oath of office you don't take it out on the citizenry of America and you don't take it out in the international community that existed at Mount Carmel A third of the people at Mount Carmel were black And they were from England a third! They were originally trying to call us racist

56:55 They didn't understand that we don't see skin texture, but we believed ourselves to be beings of white and not black, white red or yellow. People from Australia England I just blanked on the rest of the countries Mexico, we had people from all over the place at Mount Carmel. In my opinion pretty much the world was represented on Mount Carmel and what did the international community do? Was there any uprising? No they bought the government line that were a bunch of kooks and freaks and probably deserve to die and worked with this government and there was nothing done! Nothing done with the community in the world to alleviate this tragedy Where's the ACLU? We're church group with firearms therefore we don't deserve any rights

57:49 Where are these people? You know, it's interesting. There is a scripture and the scripture says that merchants are the great men of the earth through their sorceries they will deceive many and television said it was one of greatest sorcery known to man today It's the biggest method of control And thats how they get away with their murders Another scripture I think is equally as powerful In Psalms it says, why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves and their rulers take counsel against the Lord and against His Anointed saying let us break their bands asunder cast our cords from us. When in history has there ever been an event where literally all nations had interest in something that all conspired together against one person and one group of people

58:44 Now I'm not trying to preach you, I'm not trying to sell you. I'm not trying to convert you in any way. I am simply trying to show a very basic scripture that I believe in and see as having direct relation with Mount Carmel but you have to understand there is Genesis through Revelation and every prophet talks about this. And it takes couple of weeks for us to get our understanding on the first 4 or 5 seals so obviously I won't be giving that to you today but just wanted to make a point Again, Trudy's trailer which is destroyed. Another angle of Trudy's trailer that has been run over by the 70 year old lady Here are four gas tanks we had next to the building that were tipped over by the FBI tanks

59:28 gallons and gallons of fuel were poured onto the ground, and spread out all over the place. And guess where that was? That was right in the area of the building you can see this is to the side remember the side I came out on can visualize that? That's what these tanks were. I saw them poured out onto the ground then moved back by the tanks they said at the trials in San Antonio that Jamie Cascio Clive Doyle David Thibodeau all had fuel on their shoes trying show we set a fire They didn't tell you that we came out of the area where these gas tanks had been pushed over and the fuel spilled onto the ground. No, they made it sound like we set the fire intentionally This was our water...our well. They destroyed that after the fire. They put everything in three big piles just like Oklahoma City bombing You know how they destroyed the building? They destroyed Mount Carmel after That was the concrete structure for the majority of women and children were found

1:00:29 Most of them literally cooked to death. They went to the only place they could go to escape a fire, and that was in this structure because it had survived the previous fire." All the kids, they were put under wet blankets incidentally according to the autopsy reports. According to Dr Rodney Crowe who did a lot of these investigations Put under wet blankets to escape a fire We did not commit suicide Again...we had no plan to commit suicide We wanted to survive We wanted this 7 seal manuscript to come out and come to light That was not allowed Then they destroy our well and destroy the standing concrete structure, put in a big pile of concrete. That was the pool and the debris in the pool... And that's what is left today. A pile of rubble! That is Mount Carmel today. Conveniently burn the building down, kill the witnesses, and destroy the evidence."

1:01:24 Get it okay for hi Sheila 25th anniversary of what happened. How are you right here? Tell them tell them to come on down they still got time What do you think about the 25th anniversary real quick before we go I'm sorry that is so taking so long We want to get home my god to come in and change all this. Amen! You don't have to think about people being dead. Yes, and look at all this food you brought. You got everything? Well we still got time to get here April 19th 2018 what time is food 12 30 quarter one whatever one o'clock

1:02:05 All right, come on park your car and come on in. Thank you all right folks hello folks this is Mike Hanson here on uh Mike Hanson archives on YouTube and uh here on my Facebook and we're here at the 25th anniversary of The memorial service here in Waco Texas and we got Clive Doyle here Can you tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are on the 25th anniversary? Here It's It's all right, everybody knows you. It's kind of hard to my daughter just died. My daughter just died there. That's what I heard and we didn't put it out on the Internet because we were asked not to this is first time people out here on my a lot of them don't know yet

1:03:09 That was your first daughter died at Mount Carmel and this was another daughter. This is my oldest daughter, she's the youngest that died in the fire. Karen was coming down had her plane booked she was coming down for the memorial and ended up dying in a head-on collision with a drunk driver People up in Pennsylvania saying that it was deliberate, it wasn't an accident. Tried to run a cop off the road first and I guess the cop avoided it. Tried to run down another woman then she avoided it. Karen was third in line so they say she died instantly which is at least she didn't suffer too much

1:04:12 But seems like every year there's a few more that will go. Yeah, it's just not many left Clive I'm so sorry for all the stuff that has happened to y'all and hopefully it will get better but you always say its going to be better It'll get worse before it gets better Well once we're gone here maybe KRLD called me this morning Well, what do you think the government's learned in 25 years? I said nothing except don't have the press that filming everything. There's Desi okay well we're getting ready to start who do you got speaking this year? Phil Arnold James Tabor I believe Catherine Wessinger

1:05:07 Mary Lynn Bowen wants to say a little bit. Oh good, I can't wait to see her! So there's a lot of people... All right well we're getting started here folks i hope y'all can make it here for the 25th anniversary This morning and coming to see me. This is early for me, so I'm sure it's really perfect of you I like what I'd like to thank Dan from the preparedness shows for having me down here and Giving the experience of having such a unique place for people to come

1:06:02 And not only learn about survival techniques and preparedness, but find out what is going on politically in the nation today. The truth of what's going on politically in the nation today and not a watered down version that you get on television set. And actually cutting through some of the media bypass and figuring out what is really happening up there it's so important I'm not gonna waste much time As most of you probably know, my name is David Thibodeau and I met David Koresh back in 91 at Guitar Center in Hollywood California. It was late for a band rehearsal that I had and I was living out there in Hollywood. I had moved from Maine. I was going to music school and I wanted to become a famous rock n' roll drummer

1:06:58 And so I walked into the Guitar Center, because they didn't have any drumsticks and we had a band practice. And there was David Koresh and Steven Schneider in the electronic drum room looking at an electronic drum set. And I walked in with a pair of drum sticks in my hand and said, are you a drummer? And it kind of looked pretty obvious that yes. They asked me if I would sit down to try this electronic drumset So I did, I played for five minutes And when I got up, they approached me and asked if I was playing in a band. And I said at the time that I was but I was always looking to play with other people They gave me a card and I took the card and looked at it It was a yellow card and on front it said Messiah Productions I turned the card over and on the back of it had all these religious scriptures Isaiah 14, Isaiah 2

1:07:50 Malachi and reading all these scriptures, I just kind of smiled to myself. I've been living in Hollywood." You get approached a lot in Hollywood, but all... A lot of different groups and a lot of different ideologies. And there wasn't anything that I was looking to get into at the time so I handed the cart back to him and said well you know thank you but I'm really not looking to be in a Christian rock band right now nothing personal They were like we're not really a Christian rock band then they started to describe their experiences Steve actually started to talk about going over to Hawaii living in Hawaii and having this young man come over and start to present some things to him from the scripture, politically things that were happening at the time that coincided with what Steve had already understood in the scripture. And this was a person... Steven Schneider incidentally was David Peres's right-hand man as the federal government kept calling him his second-in-command. Steve was a teacher of comparative religions at the University of Hawaii He guest lectured a course

1:08:53 at the University of Hawaii. So here's a man who studied his whole life the different scriptures in the world so he could have an understanding really what book was the word of God? What was the closest direct link to God that we can get today, the actual words that He gave for man and I'm not going to get up here and preach the adage everyone has their different views and philosophies and theologies And thats fine That is what America is all about And I think more people need to come to that awareness, that is what America is all about. When they make a judgment on Oweco and they see the television set every night and they hear cults and they hear cult members and they hear cult leader...and they hear child abuse and sexual abuse and you hear these words over and over again..and they make their opinions based on what they're being fed In other words, I don't judge YOU for whatever church YOU go to

1:09:54 And the people of Mount Carmel were judged before the siege even began with certain people. The early aspects of the siege, I think, people remained pretty open towards the end of the siege most of the people in America just wanted it over any way they could get over it. They just wanted it over And that's a tragic mistake, is tolerance. We're lacking a lot of tolerance in this nation right now for other people's views and ideas just as the Nazis lacked tolerance for the Jewish ideologies. We know what happened with that. People get real upset when I make this comparison to Nazi Germany if you start to look at the laws and amount of laws, the 666 crime bill all these different federal government laws have no place

1:10:41 in the state of Florida, in the state of California and the State of Maine. In any individual state they have no place with these kind of laws It's exactly what Nazi Germany did Hitler once he came into power passed law after law after law gained control over every aspect of people's lives Normally what would not have been a criminal act became a criminal act especially under the Nazi Germany gun laws which are almost parodied by the guns we had today It's pretty scary when you actually start studying the documentations that have come down and how we are utilizing history. This government is utilizing what the great totalitarians of yesteryear have done to control you, and to control me. And that's one of the reasons why we need to become aware and listen to different speakers I do tend to get a little sidetracked from time-to-time so let me get back to my original story

1:11:44 So I got to know David pretty well and some of the people out there, what they were presenting. I was fascinated at first just the way that David and Steve described their intro when they said are you guys Christian? And then they started to talk politics which really surprised me. Now some of you may have seen the ATF propaganda film that came out in The Line Of Fire It's a propaganda film There's that whole scene with David Koresh and some of his followers are out front of the church, and they're going, brother Jesus saves brother you gotta come to our church. And they're handing him out all these flyers and stuff... ...and basically witnessing people coming out of the church just walking by like they were freaks That never happened! David never ever did that. David was not that stupid to stand on a street he would have never had his voice heard in the street like that

1:12:35 The way he did it was from a theological standpoint, he would sit down with an individual and spend hours and hours weeks days months sometimes years with certain people. He never did that And that's what impressed me is I wasn't approached in that way in a way of reasoning. And when we started opening up the scriptures and they started to get into it, they would come over for studies and I would see Stephen Schneier had one of those wide margin Bibles that you can't get anymore. The inch thick margin...and he had everything cross referenced every single page had a different reference on it and was filled with the margin. And I was so impressed with that this guy has taken so much time to thoroughly go through the scriptures In the way they were presented studying and I'll give them a quick example

1:13:32 Because people have to understand that there was truly a theological aspect of what happened there. That is the way we were viewing the world, that is the way we were viewing reality through the scriptures The reality of scriptures and I will say incidentally Before meeting David I was not a believer, I always thought I was on a spiritual path in some kind But I always thought that the Bible was kinda outdated like most young people today believe that the Bible was a fantasy book, that these things couldn't have possibly happened and basically society has just been molded into this way of thinking. It's this fantasy to control people

1:14:12 I have since learned from meeting David that the scripture is the deepest book that i could ever imagine being in existence. And the more that I study and the more that I see the prophets coincide with each other, and they are saying the same story, then each one has a little bit greater depth to it And that every tree, every lineage, every person, every word has a meaning in that book. That is deeper The word THE means something deeper when you're talking about scripture and then it becomes reality because you start to see truly your eyes become open and walk into Walmart You don't think things the same way, you just see little toys But you see little toys geared for war

1:14:57 You see little planes, and you see little monsters that you can buy for your kids to gear society around the future events. The future events that are coming up as Daniel says is a time of trouble in the latter days will be a time of troubles which has never been since the beginning of time If we are truly at those latter days then there's some very hard days ahead Some very dark days ahead And you're not going to leave here with a smile on your face I'm not going to give you a good feeling like you would when you go to church and pay your tithe. This is reality, this is truth and this what we have to start talking to our neighbors about as truth No more Christmas Halloween Easter no more Santa Claus, no more lies...no more looking at Peter Jennings or any of those anchors believing everything they say just because they're in authority It's lies And there's lie upon lie upon lie

1:16:02 We're going to talk about some of those lives right now. Two important events that occurred before the siege even started to take place and we need to talk about, there's a lot of important events but I only have time for a couple so I'm gonna have to streamline it One of those events was the health and welfare people in 19... 93, I believe those were 92 late 92 early 93 somewhere in that area. Right before about it was about five months before the BATF attack in February so I guess it was 92 the health and welfare people from the state came out to investigate all these accusations of child abuse there's a man named Mark Burrow who lives in Australia he was a former follower of David and he left not away when I was coming in he had already left

1:16:58 And I remember David being so bitter over this guy leaving and always talking about this Mark bro, and how Mark was his best student. How David loved Mark. Couldn't believe that Mark would leave and just say all these things about him. The guy was shaking up about it for the first two months getting to know him. I kept hearing this name over and over again. At the time I just wanted to play drums but the guy is a great guitarist When we met at the Guitar Center that day and practiced a couple weeks later I was blown away with his talent as a guitarist. He played, he had like a progressive style like Steve Vai or Joe Satriani, I don't know if any of these names ring a bell, their electric guitar virtuosos of the day kind of like Mozart's were in their time on guitar

1:17:45 David played like that kind of really technical style and he would pick a lot of songs and talk about the final plan, the final message for the final generation of mankind going out through music. And something called Shigionov which meant Music to Turbulent Lyrics And all the songs talk about music. King David, it was written about by Solomon in the Psalms through inspiration about King David's trumpets and horns playing skillfully to the Lord with loud noise. This is one of his psalms

1:18:21 And of course this is our interpretation of the final message. Of course there's a lot more triggers to talk about this final message that I'm not going to get into, but this should be on Music Determinant lyrics A music that will go forward and wake people up or make people ask questions and that's what David wanted He didn't want to have a big siege What do they call it? Satellite City fixed on us for 51 days. That's not how we want to get the message out at all We want to do it through music so people would hear a song called Seven Thunders and come up to David after the show and say, what is Seven Thunders all about Well why don't I show you when he could open the scripture and we could get into it I think this would have been really bad in history instead of having parties after shows that had bible studies

1:19:07 But you can guarantee that if we ever get to the point where we're touring, there would be a Bible study in every city. Because that's what David was all about he wanted enlightenment people He believed that he had a message A final message An important message And he wanted people to understand this basic foundation So this Mark Thoreau started to really stir up the waters for us He started talking about David sleeping with all these children and he started telling stories about him having to go on guard duty Mark Rowe is 90% blind in one eye and almost, he's legally blind in one eye and over 60 or 70 percent blind in the other eye. Okay? Here's a guy talking about having to stand guard like, like Brescia was whatever lets someone that's-that's blind stand guard does this make any sense to you it made no sense to me whatsoever but this was Mark Rowes report that he had to stand there with an arm with a firearm and stand guard mark row also used to talk about

1:20:06 rollerblading down hills in San Francisco and going swimming and having sharks brush up against him. This is, again please understand this is a guy that's blind. Now Mark's not stupid he's brilliant he has got a photogenic memory that why was David's best student He had learned all this truth all this information which then he decided to present and get his own group of people I could talk about Mark for quite some time, but really I'm going to kind of move on here. Mark did start by...I have to say this one thing and this is a story that not too many people realize David came to a point in his message when he used to talk about an upper room and lower room experience And there would be a new light given in the future that would be the dividing point Of anyone who was truly sincere within the group

1:21:02 And then there would be the upper room, those who went up and studied with David. And probably the lower room who had probably studied with Mark What ended up happening is a new light came A new aspect of the message was revealed and Mark left the group at this point. And Mark did everything he could to turn around any people who had been involved and left, especially in Australia. That's when they started to get all these people together. That's when they started to really demonize oppression. Mark actually made a statement in the letter that I read, I will do anything to stop you! If you read his book... Please don't buy the book if you want to read it please go to the library and get it It is called Inside The Cult

1:21:41 But in his book he actually discredits himself. The gentleman says that he knew that there was no... This is the person I remember who was originally reporting, it was child sacrifice not only child abuse but child sacrifice going on at Mount Carmel and because the new Ababians that were being born didn't have any birth certificates because they weren't involved in the system but they were being sacrificed He said that to the FBI and the ATF. And in this book he says, I was frustrated because the federal law enforcement agencies weren't going to get Koresh so I told them there was child sacrifice going on so it would anger them enough to finally take action. This is what the man says in his own book. This is a person that the government went to for information. This is the person's testimony as eyewitness testimony legally blinded one eye

1:22:30 His eyewitness testimony that film, that ATF propaganda film in the line of fire was based on. This is the reality that the government, the media, Hollywood is painting for you It's their reality it's their fantasy...it's not true So in 1992 due to all this accusation The health and welfare people came out and they investigated the children And they looked them up, looked them down They looked for signs of mental, physical and sexual abuse. And they dropped their case for lack of evidence basically all they had found were some marks on one of the baby's bottoms not even a baby but one of the younger kids like the 7 year old's bottoms because the kids there were disciplined and they were disciplined always out of love never out of anger. If a parent was ever angry at a child or would hit that child they would pressure them down hard

1:23:32 Because there's a difference between disciplining your children, as it says in the scripture and beating your child. It was presented that we beat our children and that is what Janne Arino said, the kids were being beaten. Do you remember her justification of getting placed front of the ground? She was asked about the place burning, her only justification was that the kids were being beaten then she couldn't even back it up Let me tell you what this is called When there's a volatile situation, and all of America is watching television set and they're getting angry because they have something out of their control burning in front of them with women and children in it. One or two things happens. They get angry enough to take action... Or they look for justification What the government does is offer you, and the media at the television set offers you the justification so that you don't get angry enough to go down on City Hall and take action

1:24:26 And that's what they did. I know you'll see it again and again and again, hence the kids are being beaten That's why i went in oh because you're being beaten well It's terrible about them to get those people deserve abuse this is justification You can live with yourself tell you what if we come down at tomorrow's lecture there will be no more justifications There's documentary coming out that's going to be called Of course i'm going to forget what it's gonna be called because it's so new and it's not even out yet um It'll come to me. It's coming out by William Gizek and Mike McNulty that you need to look for, I think it will be out in late July and there is some pretty heavy evidence on this documentary. Talks about the February 28th raid they have a lot of specialists and they are going to do a lot of work with the FLIR video, the infrared video that was shot from a plane above Mount Carmel 2 miles above Mount Carmel And that infrared video

1:25:29 I'm going to come back to this because it's really a sensitive area for me right now. So the health and welfare people came out in 92, they checked these kids They found no signs of abuse and they dropped their case. They came out with the Sheriff's Department because they were fearful for their lives, because of all the things that were being said in the press against us. And Paresh talked to the Sheriff's Department. Peresh knew the sheriff personally. Peres had been in trouble before in 87' and when the sheriff asked him to come in he got his car and went downtown freely All he had to do was be asked and he was there I wish the BATF would have realized this and asked as well however they didn't

1:26:25 So the sheriff came out and the next day in the paper, the health and welfare people actually said in a wakeful should be here. They said that the kids were the nicest most well behaved kids we've ever had the pleasure to work with And then right next to that quote one of the people in the Sheriff's Department said The only problem with those people out at Mount Carmel is not that they're weird or strange Their problems are that they're misunderstood I thought it was pretty powerful coming from the Sheriff's Department And I wish these things would have been mentioned before the 18th attack. Soon after that, some individuals moved next door or across the street into a house. There were two houses across the street and they were owned by the person who had adjacent property. His name was Perry. He was a cattle farmer at a big huge ranch. It's one of people who actually ran Waco

1:27:18 And they told our Perry Jones, it was David Kresher's father-in-law. He had lived through all the different groups that had come to Mount Carmel. The Rob branch, his sister, brother Roden, sister Roden, Benjamin Hoddeth all the way through time and he'd live there most of his life at Mount Carmel and Perry knew everybody in the city of Waco The other Perry, the Perry that owned the property across from us had told our Perry, Perry Jones that nothing was going to be done with that property. That he was going to use it as a servants' quarter and all of sudden four young guys move in across the street They look like they were in their mid-to late 30's They move in and they carry in all this equipment They don't carry furniture or anything like that They have these big huge equipment cases

1:28:15 And then they start playing golf and shooting their firearms on their property, doing target practice. I guess basically to let us know that they were into firearms. So David sent over a couple people with six-pack of beer and some pizza We used to make pizza runs when we got these pizzas because Perry knew everyone. We would get free pizzas and stuff from the community in Waco So we brought him over pizza and some beer, and the story has it that two of the individuals I think it was Greg Summers and Neil Vega knock on the door at The Undercover House. You hear this voice from inside, and the voice goes what? Oh, we're your neighbors across the street We have some pizza and beer for you. We just want to say hi welcome into the neighborhood. You know introduce ourselves all sudden a door opens his hand comes out Bang! grabs the pizza pulls it in slams the door And they're sitting there like this

1:29:15 And the guy from the inside goes, I got my girl in here. Okay no problem see you later. The arrogance ya know? What thanks this is how they chose to deal with us. Anyway like a day or two later one of the main guys comes down the roadway And he's checking out a piece of farm equipment that we had on the property. And David came out and started talking with him, got to know him a little bit invited him in for study so... He and another agent came over that night and were getting some studies. The study went over the agents time apparently, he had a certain time limit. This other agent came from the house I can call them agents now at the time but didn't realize they were agents We're giving them the benefit of doubt

1:30:06 Even though I think they need to polish up on their surveillance skills a little bit. But anyway, they walk down and the guy knocks on the door because it was like two hours had gone by David tended to give long studies especially if there's someone new that was interested And Robert would sit there reading the scriptures There is knock at the door you know Oh Robert your friend is out here! And David opens the door come in! And I go over to see what's going on The guys outside pacing back and forth trying to figure out what to do He just paints him. He didn't want to come in, you know he thought it was a set up or something so like come on in man let's...you know come on in So finally comes in and is everything okay Robert? You know we were supposed to go out Oh yeah that right sorry about that We just kind of got into his study Everythings fine And then they left ya'know It was just where all looking at each other going That was pretty interesting wasn't it Trying to blow it off Anyway

1:31:00 To make a long story short, they told us that they were going to TSTC which is the community college in Waco. I guess the reason I'm taking so long to frame this story is because I want to show you the incompetence of ATF if you haven't already seen it. I want to show how they think and how their suspicion and arrogance and pride gets away with them And how they feel like they're doing this...I guess they feel like protecting us? They didn't do a very good job of protecting the people at Waco, that's for sure. We're going to get into some stories later about that too. So they tell us they are going to TSTC and they are studying philosophy That is what Robert says. I said so what are you studying out there in TSTC? He goes oh philosophy! Now TSTC is a community college for trade Woodshop Cars You know these kinds of things

1:31:57 And so I said, really Robert you're studying philosophy out there? When did they add that course. You know it was fascinating Apparently they were registered with the other college and didn't even know their colleges down So it got to be almost comical if it weren't such a serious situation It would be comical and of course Robert Rodriguez's neighbor said later in congressional hearings That I was mistaken and then he told me photography and that I was mistaken and heard it wrong, he never said philosophy. Well Robert...I beg to differ because when you said philosophy my mouth dropped on that. You know there's certain things in your life when you hear it just never forget so you can't believe the person is actually saying it? There are a few events where I'll talk about it concerning the Waco incident this was one of those

1:32:45 I just couldn't believe he was saying it. So, I know that I didn't say photography and I know that I said philosophy just to clarify a little bit and I wish I had the chance in Congress to retort. I wish they didn't cut my time and put Carrie Jewell next to me and we're going to talk about Carrie Jewell's testimony as well The young girl who claimed she was abused And I was reading off of a written statement according to her grandmother that was written up by her stepmother and was reading verbatim word for word. When you're a young lady, and I've talked to a lot of young ladies that have been sexually abused it's something that I hold... The evils of man I've studied all my life the evils of society I always had great interest fascination and sadness for so i thought to a lot people in my life about their experiences with especially sexual abuse

1:33:40 And the one thing that pretty much consistently most of them tell me is they don't need to read off a piece of paper when they describe their experience because they know it. They're going to have something prepared and I had prepared something, I'd prepared a two-page sheet for Congress. I got right here as part of my information packet put together with different letters from people who were involved The students of David Perez, this is a letter to Walter Smith and the Hetchery Four Woman saying we don't want these people to be doing 40 years in jail for a charge that you threw out the court and was added back in by the judge. One of the attorneys that was on Jack Zimmerman... Anyway I did two page little letter that I was pretty proud of one of the only letters ever actually written my life

1:34:28 I went to Congress, you know. Had an impact and said well that's pretty well written maybe I should quit drumming and become an author. Just cranking my chain here for a minute folks What i'm trying to say is that I am not a letter writer okay? I can't sit there and write good letters And I don't have that kind of patience so this was really an endeavor for me. I was very proud of it. And I wanted to read it for congress too! But I wasn't allowed to No, we don't have time for that. You can give them to all the members but we had time to sit there and listen to Carrie Jewel read four pages of testimony And also incidentally there is a letter in this information pack that I'll have available at my booth which is right out here as you walk down To the left There's a row I'm right down there like three rows down you see it three boots down This is a letter from Ruth Mosher Ruth Mosher was Carrie Jewel's grandmother

1:35:23 And Ruth wrote a little letter to Congress after seeing Kerry's testimony and not believing what she was seeing because Kerry Jewells' story from living with Ruth was totally different than what Kerry Jewells sang in front of Congress under the guise of her father, with her father sitting there at David Jewell. It's pretty interesting, basically to sum it up what she is saying... What Ruth is saying that the period of time that Carrie was claiming to be molested by David Koresh. She was living in Anaheim California with her grandmother and that basically her testimony is not jiving with Ruth's experience living with Carrie

1:36:03 I really wish this could have been focused on as well and i don't want to stand up here publicly and call anyone a liar, and say that Carrie Jewell did not have her experience. It's possible that she did and maybe had some kind of experience. Let me just say this folks...I'm just one person who has had one experience. Take everything I say with a grain of salt because you'll have a mind And there's a lot of books out there and you can read those books and get different perspectives from different people. And everyone has got a little bit of truth, we don't always remember the same way... We don't always present things in their actual life that is one of the problems with being human okay? So just make your own decisions based on most information that you can get and this is just my experience

1:36:48 I can't give you Terry Drew's experience. And, I'm not going to get up there and say that she is absolutely lying but I am going to say that there are problems with her story and that needs to be focused on just as it should have been focused on in Congress. Let's get back on track now after the health and welfare people came and went and after these people were surveying us if you will they began a real health kick and he started to jog alot and a lot of guys would jog down the street in front of surveillance devs Especially two weeks before the raid plan, according to the Treasury Department report there were nine different meetings between the undercover agent Robert Rodriguez and David Koresh. Nine different occasions where Rodriguez came down to get his study One of those occasions he came down and watched a movie that David had had and we played some music And Robert sat there and the movie was called BATF Breaking The Law In The Name Of The Law

1:37:46 I believe it was by the Gun Owners Association of America. It is an excellent, excellent documentary and if you get a chance to get your hands on it you should see it! What these documentaries did was they interviewed a lot of people, a lot of gun owners who went to gun shows and had experiences with BATF. They documented their stories and they're pathetic just honest everyday people who live right next door to you, that just happened to have their business be guns and firearms. Legal businesses...couples, families. How the BATF put so much pressure on them and drained them financially from their court proceedings that they lost their businesses, their homes The FBI- I'm sorry, the ATF puts SO MUCH strain on this one guy who couldn't handle it and killed himself leaving a wife and kids They terrorized him

1:38:42 Terrorism and you just need to see the documentary, and it's not crazy people. It's not fanatical people It's everyday people that have had a terrible experience of piratey under these Under these gun-wielding badge holding tyrants That's what they are we have a badge We take an oath To uphold the law and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America, and then you break someone's door down. In one case a woman in St. Louis, an old lady who happened to have someone staying with her who had left two days before that was wanted by the ATF they kicked your door in she reached for something in her night drawer she was laying in bed and they shot her at her own home when these events start taking place

1:39:41 You've got to start showing some Nazi Germany war films to these people and say, this is what is happening. The same thing history's repeating itself you're supposed uphold the law we took an oath of the law but were going make you uphold the law And if you think because your have a badge that your above the law then you are wrong This where the American people have come into play This is where you as individual For example this documentary I told you about I can't believe, I can't remember this name. It's close to the final assault. The Rules of Engagement is what it's going to be called. The rules engagement and all they're gonna do is show a tank going through the building and the captions are read now that you know what are we gonna do about it? That's their whole advertising campaign now that you know what are you gonna do about it because you cannot look at your neighbor and say what should he do

1:40:39 up the things that you have to do. We all have to do something to whip this along a little bit. Anyway, I just want to say about the BATF if I can before we continue with the rest of time that I have allotted... If you are in law enforcement and break the law, you should go to jail. No more of this protection from Bill Clinton and Janet Reno, and all these people who don't want to see the Constitution being used anymore as a document. They want their own control. They want their own world order. They don't want American sovereignty. Um they like that fact that you're on the internet talking to different nations all

1:41:35 conducting businesses with Hong Kong and China, all these different countries. They like the fact that you're not thinking about what it is to truly be an American, that when you don't study your constitution then you don't know your rights. The government loves ignorance. It loves your ignorance because what they've done is they've taken your rights and they made them privileges These are not privileges, these are God-given rights that we're born with as Americans. And if we... and I speak to everyone in this room because I'm guilty myself... ...are ignorant of our Constitution and ignorant of our rights and allow them to be trampled over then we deserve it! Then we ARE a part of the problem, but you're not part of the solution. I want to see everyone in this room become apart of the solution That's my dream, thats why I still do this We can all become part of the solution

1:42:26 Okay, so on February 28th the BATF raid and the raid plan consisted of 75 armed men over in 75 closer to 100 attacking a building with helicopters. In the background the helicopters are supposed to be used as a diversionary tactic however according to trial transcripts and a lot of the trial transcripts are gone over this book called The Davidian Massacre that I have copies available of it's by a woman named Carol Moore in Washington and she meticulously went through the trials, and she talks about the raid plan. People involved in the raid plan. A chronological order of what happened on February 28th but more importantly during the trials in San Antonio She goes through all the testimony and shows you where government agents are contradicting themselves which is very important to know their lies And again if I can just pose a question how come if I were to get up

1:43:21 If I were to get up in a court of law, I would be in jail for perjury. And these people get up and lie consistently with emotion and tears... ...and they put on they should get an Oscar for their performance? Then they get away with it! How come they're not going to jail?! I demand to know! I demand to know why these people aren't in jail. Klein-Mackie & Sarabin, uh, the two BATF commanders that actually staged the raid that came up with the raid plan called it showtime It was actually named Operation Trojan Horse. Let's not forget what happened in Troy, how many people were slaughtered in Troy? History lessons... The code word to go down with the rape pattern is showtime. Okay boys it's showtime! So the two cattle trailers pull to the front of the building. The agents get out, helicopters are coming towards the back they're firing at the building according all the eyewitness testimony at the back of the building If you get the information pack different forms

1:44:25 back here in the Committee for Waco Justice, this girl Carol Morris put together. The different evidences of using helicopter gunfire as a diversion and firing into buildings. Admission agents were armed and willing to fire government claims the helicopter took Davidian gunfire. The Davidians complained about firing on negotiation caves all these things happened during the siege. The amount of bullet holes that were in the roof of the building. We even had kids coming out making pictures of Mount Carmel and going like this with a crayon on top of the building, and the psychologist said well what's that? And the kid says that's gunfire in the ceiling roof of the building okay only could have happened from the air and yet it has been denied its been covered up every agent in helicopters is denied of course I mean rather go to jail for perjury than murder right

1:45:23 Anyway, that's illegal. You're not supposed to be firing at citizens and you're not supposed to use tanks according to our Constitution unless of course the DEA law comes into play and there are drugs being manufactured so what do you think they did? They made sure that all of a sudden we were guilty of having a methamphetamine lab justifying the helicopters and the tanks used during the course of the siege which was never any methamphetamine. David Peres was so against drugs his own brother was hooked and David wanted to help him so badly, but the guy had to want to help himself. He was severely heavily against drugs and it's a personal insult that is just another lie that they're perpetuating to make you believe that their justified interactions with death of over 87 people. So trial testimony indicated that the ground commanders were actually asking for air support during

1:46:30 course of the 45 minute gun battle on February 28th. Now, interesting if you're in a helicopter and you don't have firearms and your not firing what good does it do to ask for air support? What are the people in the helicopter going to throw down leaflets for support? You know hey guys we're right behind you sorry but can't be armed because the congress wont let us be armed. If you asked for air support is anyone in the military was anybody in this room I'd be really surprised that there wasn't Young man, what happens when you're asked for air support? Which means this gentleman knows. He's used to saying 20 caliber rockets the whole shmear everything is thrown at you that's air support why would they be asking for air support The first thing according to the raid plan was a diversionary tactical or quote with helicopters

1:47:25 There were four different groups of BATF agents that each had a different job. The first went out of the cattle trailer, there was two groups out of the back cattle trailer and one was to go to the front door and quote-unquote serve the search warrant which incidentally was left on the dashboard of the vehicle And when it was asked for later, the agent in charge said oh it was shot up during the gun battle we don't have it available That's...that's the same thing as me going into my high school and telling the teacher that my dog ate my homework There's no difference except for people being killed in this situation and circumstance. You should get detention, you should have a badge taken, we shouldn't be in jail with these people now they get promotions They don't go to jail they get promoted, they get raises, they get their legal

1:48:13 They get their legal funds taken care of while the government is draining anyone that survived this thing for everything they got, making sure we don't have the money to fight them in court. They give all these other people who are responsible for murder on American soil, responsible for a holocaust with prejudice, with hatred, with neglect, with intent, with maliciousness... They get promotions and raises That's not the message I want sent to my kids That's not the America that I want to bring my kids up in. I want to bring them up in a real America, what we haven't once... What we've lost sight of. That's the America I want back." And then they have this media, this press and this government has the testosterone to say where they call it? The faulty patriot movement or they call it the um... What is that buzzword you're using now?

1:49:14 the anti-patriot movement, or every time they mention the patriot movement. They say the false patriot movement that's what it is That you're all false patriots That anyone who goes to a preparedness show Or gun show is a false patriot That's what they call them now If your not with the Clinton regime You are a false patriot That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard Bill Clinton read your constitution You people in the press, you read your constitution tonight and come back and tell me I'm a false patriot. Tell me that my words aren't true when 48 hours comes out here to The Last Preparator Show interviews myself Mr. John Schrockman and JJ Johnson and doesn't use any of my interview

1:49:56 They come up to me all through this last Parenthood Expo and say, oh David you did such a wonderful job. You're such a powerful speaker. You had so many profound things to say I was just... And this is the report. I was blown away with your talk with all of the interview that we had and I can't wait to get back and use this in our report that were gonna do. They didn't use one word they didn't even mention my name. I guess it's little too profound for maybe Maybe it's not what they wanted to hear. So, instead of... well at least they did not print the truth. At least they just didn't print anything as opposed to taking my words out of context maybe I guess that is a blessing? I don't know but we can see what they've done with John Trotman and Bill Brights and some of these other people

1:50:38 I could talk about the press all day, these people have no idea what it is to be an American. They have no idea what it is to have some journalistic integrity and actually print the truth for a change not print or lie but print what their editors want but they gotta start putting there foot downs too. We're going to write letters to the editors of these papers, of these 48 hours and magazines. Tell them that we want the truth and we're not going to sit here and take what they are giving. And you know turn your TV off! If we could get a mass exodus of television sets and get everyone to turn their TVs off, they'd have to prove the truth. So that's... I'm not going to get into my story very well but I have to say this That is one of our problems as society today We're responsible for the information we get And if as people we stop buying The National Enquirer and turn the TV's off and stop buying these newspapers

1:51:35 That's their livelihood, they gotta make money. You know what they do? They would print the truth. They would print what we wanted them to print because they have no choice But when you sit back and let your mother-in-law go buy that trash, go and buy that star or sun or daily telegram You buy into the system, you're letting them control you and build a fantasy world. And you know what? Blood's being shed now we can't live in a fantasy anymore this is real! People are going to jail and people are being killed...and it's not fake blood It's not movie blood its REAL BLOOD! And it could be your blood, could be your childrens' blood We have to start thinking like this, think of the seriousness of the situation

1:52:20 I just want to say a couple more things about the raid before I have to wrap this up. I got like 15 minutes according to my timer, okay? 15 minutes... I was talking about the raid plan We've got a group of ATF agents here that are going over back in the building Put up a ladder climb the ladder throwing flashbang grenades into the building Go in and get the evidence Now let me just say that the warrant they had to be served was a NOC search warrant If the judge allows it, you can get a no-knock search warrant. Which means you can bust the door down and go in and get your evidence and do what you have to do if there's drugs or you're in danger of your life They did not have that in the case of our church They did not have that in the case of our home They had a knock search warrant which means they had a knock on their door Say David Gresh with BATF we have a search warrant We have a warrant for your arrest and a search warrant for your premises We're gonna come in now and search your house

1:53:19 That's how you're supposed to serve a NOC search warrant. So my fundamental question is, how do you service up a NOC search warrant with people simultaneously... Simultaneous helicopters coming out the back People climbing the ladder and throwing flashbang grenades trying to get in your room To get evidence while you have another group of BATF agents going through the front door With the warrants screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs And yet another group of people sworn duty and job Is to exit the cattle trailers We had a pen area at the front of the building that had a fence built around it where we kept our dogs. Our five Alaskan Malamutes spawned a mother and her four pups who were about nine months old, they were big pups but nonetheless still pups and suppressed the dogs

1:54:11 Now in the BATF propaganda film, you see these agents coming out with fire extinguishers. Extinguishing the dogs to keep them away from the area. You remember this? Did y'all see this? This is the kind of trash and crap that we're talking about. These are the kinds of lies that have been perpetrated In the BTF propaganda film they come out with fire extinguishers. In reality they shot those dogs in cold blood They didn't use a fire extinguisher Fawn, the mother and I got this story first hand from my friend Greg who actually took care of the dogs and raised the dogs from pups. Had to put Fawn out of her misery until one agent shot her in the hindquarters and she was walking around running around in a circle yelping because she was in such pain finally Greg had to put her out of her misery so not only did they not get a job then they sat down on our supper How does this affect you if your little kid? And you're on the second floor of the building and hearing all this with gunfire coming through your window

1:55:12 I'm sorry to have to like paint this picture for you, but... You have to understand what happened there. It simply is not what they presented Same thing with Randon Weaver and Vicky Weaver Originally that was presented as a federal agent has been shot A racist white supremacist is held up in a mountain cabin And he has killed the federal agent But you didn't hear about Sammy Weaver! You didn't hear that young Sammy was killed running No, you heard white supremacists You gotta be careful whenever the media demonizes a person. Chances are they're not as bad as they're making it sound, that's just reality How do you serve an officer who won't like this simultaneously? How do you kill a group of dogs and then expect to knock on their door and serve them warrant? How does that happen I would like to know!

1:56:10 The door flies back into his hand from the velocity of a bullet hitting it. He slams it, all these shots are coming into the foyer Perry Jones goes down because he got hit in the stomach twice He's down on the ground yelling in pain and some of the people at the front door are firing back, because they just saw old Perry Jones who'd been there his whole life on the ground. They're hearing a dog being shot it all happened simultaneously How do you justify that? That is not an off search warrant folks It's illegal They served the search warrant illegally

1:56:49 There needs to be action taken against these people. I am so sick of watching these congressmen get up there and praise each other. Oh, to the gentleman on my left what a great job you're doing for Maryland! I'd like to thank you for all your hard work. Why don't you shut up and ask the questions buddy? Quit praising this jerk, and let's hear the hardline questions. Let's get to the bottom of this and then take action after we've asked the questions If you know that a government agent is lying, throw his butt in jail! Let's not take this nice talk anymore I got nine friends in jail right now Nine friends that don't deserve to be there That are in jail because a judge was being investigated by the goverment named Walter Smith That cut the trials in San Antonio

1:57:40 Once he got the trials in San Antonio to the Davidian prisoners, and who was the judge in charge? Do you think it was investigated anymore?" He is being investigated for prosecution. And now guess what the latest thing is! It goes back to Judge Walter Smith and the civil suits that we're filing against the government We did everything to get them in Austin or some other place other than Waco Texas... ...and they've absolutely flat out denied it. The civil suit will go down in Waco Texas, the most prejudiced town against us on the face of the earth fix politically that's ever been. And it's happening and it's probably going to happen because somehow we're powerless to fight this system, somehow they get away with their lies and Bill Clinton can lie and Janet Reno can say that I did everything that I could for the children and if you believe that I encourage you to come here tomorrow at 11 o'clock and see my slideshow presentation

1:58:36 that I will show. Tomorrow's lecture actually is going to be called the final assault and I've painted some slide footage, some color still photos that were taken from the surveillance plane above Mount Carmel that day and you'll see the tank destruction of the building You'll see how the government built a fire break around the building How they were anticipating the burning of evidence I believe I can prove that in this slideshow presentation And ill be showing that at 11 Also, if you can't wait for tomorrow. If you can't wait for tomorrow I have copies of my last presentation of the show available

1:59:15 called The Final Assault. This is tomorrow's program, so if you're not going to be here tomorrow and you just can't be here tomorrow and really want to see this I encourage you get this video that i have it down there at my booth straight down as we go out All of this is based on April 19th You are not going hear what you heard today, your basic overview but all based around the fire in the actions of government If you've got to buy some gifts for people, Father's Day I can't think of a better gift than the truth. Buy this for your neighbor give it to them You know the neighbor that thinks that you're nut for going to gun shows and coming up preparing shows The neighbor who wishes that you would just shut your mouth about what is going on and just go along with the ride Give them video tape if you are more interested in the overall experience not just one day I have this tape available at my booth And this is

2:00:12 a talk that I gave in Independence, Missouri. And it's basically two hours of just talking...a little boring but it was on at a movie theater these people actually run the movie theater and sponsored me and we have pictures of Mount Carmel and the different images that I'm talking about behind me on the movie theatre as I am speaking what they did with the tape is they cut it into Richard Mosley's Day 51 video so you see the BATF agents standing behind the vehicles shooting into the building like it's a set of Rambo movie. They're not cowering for cover under all the velocity gunfire that we're hitting them with, they are standing up! Standing up shooting at the second story where women and children are. These people say that they were met from 40 different positions That is was an absolute ambush

2:01:11 They were ambushing, we had 50 caliber weapons and again the press made it so I actually saw a report. This older lady that had more makeup on than Tammy Faye Baker was giving this report and she said the problem at Mount Carmel with February 28th as Sharon Wheeler said was not that they were outmaneuvered but that they were outgunned This bullet is a .223 round and this is the kind of bullet that the government had, that the BATF agent had. And this bullet is the kind of bullets that the Branch Davidians have. This is a 50 caliber.

2:01:51 Lady, where you been? There were no .50 calibers used. There were two .50 caliber Beringer's in the premises and they were not used Nobody got to them nobody use them I saw them the day after they had not been fired It's another lie. There has never been one shell casing found, there has never been one .50 caliber bullet found there and yet you still hear their damn rhetoric that they threw... Oh my god! Jim Caravan from the Congressional Hearings went to be an ATF agent and I'm gonna try to act this way out They fired at us We didn't shoot first shots they did They were throwing- we had two 2.3 rounds, we had 9mms They were throwing everything at us

2:02:39 50 calibers, they were throwing hand grenades. We didn't stand a chance up there." I begged to differ, I'm sorry but the guy deserves an Oscar but that's not what happened Where is the evidence sir? I'd like to see some casings and I would like to see some shrapnel from one of these hand grenades we threw at them some of the evidence that the .50 calibers used, and you can guarantee that if we were throwing .50 calibers and they had any kind of evidence for that, it's a first thing you'd see in Congress. Here are some of the shrapnel from the .50 caliber. Here is one of those .50 caliber bullets that we pulled out on one of the helicopters You can guarantee they would be all over that So now they just say it like its true but in reality there full with themselves I'm going to have to wrap this up...I got two minutes do we have a question? Yes sir

2:03:32 Mr. Thibodeau, I'm John Simpson from Alachua Florida and in my ancestry i have some Joneses very common name this David Jones that was a postal carrier was he the son of Perry Jones? Yes he was How long were you acquainted with them about two years two to one-half year Michelle Jones, Rachel Jones, Perry Jones. There was Stephen Jones who wasn't there David, Rachel and Michelle were the only Jones's of the kids they had like 12 children Perry Jones and Marybel Jones had 12 kids They were the only ones that actually stayed with the group Was this David Jones one of these crazy postal people? Not at all Well I was a postal person also Are you disgruntled sir? Uh...I have read

2:04:31 I can get my hands on about this Waco matter and this book that you have by Carol Moore is about the latest thing out, and I've completely read it. people to get that from you. And I certainly think that all people in our federal government responsible for that attack on White Hill, Texas the Branch Davidians of Mount Carmel all the people responsible for that should be hung by a mirror-stoked tree with a piece of vanilla wood. That's how they did it in the old days maybe that's part of the problem is they don't do it like anymore. Okay our time...our time's done?

2:05:17 Okay, the time's over. I'm going to go right back to my booth so if there are any questions... ...I'll try and answer your question but bear in mind that the whole way that I get to do this is by selling videos and books by giving information. That's the only way that I'm able to come here, okay? And speak for you So please encourage me to help out and buy some videos and books If you see someone waiting for a video or book hold off on your questions so they can get one so they don't get discouraged Then i'll stay all day and talk to ya' All day! And I will be here tomorrow at 11 o clock

2:05:53 Man, you've got to see this video. You have to see the slideshow presentation Please come back tomorrow if you can because it's powerful It'll give you a different insight and perspective on what happened Thank you very much