Breaking News Waco Fire Survivor, Clive Doyle, Passes Away At 81 Tribute Video [aMk5xDXPT2A]

00:04 Hey, you burn it we rebuild it. I've known the Branch Davidians a long time and I think they're good God fearing people. I think they were demonized breaking news breaking news on June 9th 2022 Clive Doyle has passed away stay tuned right here folks on Mike Hanson archives for I love Mike Hanson Archives. Get ready to run. Hi, this is David Thibodeau and I love the Mike Hanson Archives! Absolutely! Well hello folks it's Mike Hanson from Mike Hansen Archives and it's June 9th 2022 and I have a little breaking news...I just found out this morning while was at the gym here swimming that Clive Doyle

01:27 has passed away. A lot of y'all know that Clive Doyle is a world famous Branch Davidian, one of nine survivors that jumped out of the fire there at Mount Carmel on April 19th Also, he was there the whole 51 days. The raid happened on February 28th 1993 and Clive was there the whole time He's been pretty much the leader of the Branch Davidians since he has got out of jail in 1994. I know he started coming on our TV shows about

02:21 Around late 94, 1995 is when I met all the Branch Davidians. Catherine Madison and Grandma Edna which is Clive Doyle's mother which was a great lady and sadly both of One of Clive's daughters died in the fire and then the other one died in a car wreck couple years ago. Very sad situation for Clive, he has been through a lot with this illness that he just had and hopefully he will rest in peace

03:09 Not only did he come on our TV shows in the early 90s, then about 1999 we got with Clive Doyle Alex Jones myself and all the volunteers of America. Jimmy Ritter and his wife and just 1000 volunteers. got with Clive Doyle and with George Pulliam, the architect. And we all decided together that we were gonna rebuild Mount Carmel back just the church portion. And that was really a sighting time in my life and I know it was a sighting time in Clive's life, and all the Branch Davidians we really got to know them and got to love them. We really appreciated Clive he is one of the most meekest

04:07 God-fearing, nicest, forgiving people that you'll ever meet in your life. And one thing he said on Facebook through a friend that he really wants to see us in the kingdom to come and also that he wants everybody each other out there with all your heart. So that's what we want to take away today is Clive Doyle wants you to love everybody out there with all your heart now, that is a great way to go out. Okay folks, the breaking news Clive Doyle world famous Branch Davidian has passed away

05:02 And we're fixing to talk to his roommate, To give you an idea of what happened and how old he was. And stuff like that... Ron does want to continue this mission. Okay is it on the speaker? Yes! Okay Ron, We are live on InfoWars This is going to be on a videotape about Clive. Can you tell us How old Clive was Well, everything happened real quickly about 10 days ago. Clive had a serious stomach ache and we called an ambulance and rushed him to the ER

05:47 They did an ultrasound and found a mass on his pancreas. Further testing revealed that the mass was stage 4 pancreatic cancer After that, Clive had discussions with doctors And tells them he doesn't want any extraordinary measures of course No ventilators We've all been traumatized by the COVID idea of ventilators I went from the hospital to a nursing center in Waco and after two days at the nursing center somebody had discovered that a drainage tube had fallen out so they brought him to the ICU. Once he got to the ICU, they fixed up his drainage but in the meantime he was able to talk to a hospice nurse

06:43 was able to schedule him to be brought across the street, to St. Catharines Nursing Home in Waco and once he got there, he died pretty much last night at 11 o'clock in his sleep very peaceful we thought we had a couple weeks and I was preparing the house for for him to return, but that didn't happen. Exactly we thought we had more time Ron and this is Ron the roommate can you also tell us in case somebody wants to because it's going to be pretty hard for you because Clive was paying half the rent

07:30 of the house where y'all live and half the bill. So it's gonna be pretty hard for you to carry on the mission unless we get some help, of course I'm gonna donate but if somebody out there would love to donate to Clive's Memory give them your phone number and your address Okay, I am at area code 2547140115. And if you want to mail cards or letters the house is 1708 Alexander Avenue and we're going to put that up on the screen for your folks and how old did you say Clive was? Clive was 81 years old.

08:22 Well, we thought we had more. We thought we had more time because we were trying to get some pictures together, to send Clive. To look at in his bed in this last days but we're still gonna send that to you I'm fixing the play the video. I had just made a video and sent it to y'all about the pictures that we were getting together for Clive and we just did not have enough time he passed away You say last night about 11 o'clock. Yes, and we feel that's God's mercy. Yes

09:00 Well, Ron I sure appreciate it and whatever y'all can do out there folks cards flowers and especially love gifts for Clive's memory because we do want to carry on Clives mission. I know knew a Clive for 28 years Ron and I really loved him he was a great guy And i really appreciate you taking care of him in his last days Did you want to tell the people anything else? We got to go really quick though. One of the last things Clive said was to tell his friends that he'll meet them in the kingdom. Absolutely, and then also said I read that he wants everybody to love everybody with all their heart. That is correct. Well, that sounds just like Clive. Clive was a great

09:52 And it's gonna be hard to replace him. And Ron, we will see you soon. God bless you sir Okay, thank you Mike. We're getting together a celebration of life ceremony but we don't know how that's going to come off. Well stay in touch folks out there stay in touch with Ron with that number and his address and we'll also let you know right here on Mike Hanson archives about the memorial service Alright Ron, thanks a lot and God bless. Okay, one more mention. Yeah. My zip is 76708. Okay 1708 Alexander Avenue Waco Texas 76708 alright thanks a lot and we'll talk to you next time much appreciated

10:52 We believe that God's going to set up a kingdom in the last days, which will be the ultimate evangelistic show you might say. God is gonna make an all-out effort to save as many as possible we believe in this last generation and the Kingdom is all through the Bible prophesied that God will set up a kingdom in the Holy Land so that's part of what we believe Most of the people that were there didn't actually come and join quote-unquote the Branch Davidians as such. They would simply consider themselves the students of the Bible or students of The Seven Seals, as was being taught to them at that time by David. But we do believe we're in the end time. We believe

11:45 The devil is basically pulling a lot of strings amongst the nations and you have a situation, some people call it one world government. We tend to call it Babylon, Babylon the Great there's different terms for it but its basic concept that the devil fighting tooth and nail to get people to join together, and ultimately the results will be that they'll come against God's people. We've seen that we believe in miniature...we went through an experience in miniature of what the whole world can expect to experience you know which the Bible calls tribulation or a time of trouble things like that

12:25 further down the road, but we those of us that were studying under David got an experience up close and first hand. You can see it in their faces they're serious about their cause rebuilding the church at the Branch Davidian compound Austin radio talk show host Alex Jones organized the effort The materials are donated volunteers do the work Some weeks as much as 150 people out here. On average I'd say about 40-50 people over the day It's taken us quite a while but on the other hand we've only been working on it like a day a week so it's not really a long time when you consider the size of it and everything The church shell stands where the compound chapel stood before the 1993 fire that destroyed it and killed more than 80 Davidians

13:12 So far, $70,000 in donations for the new building have come in from Austin to North Texas. Every piece of wood has been doused with a flame retardant. This too donated by Dallas company, a five thousand dollar product Branch Davidian Sheila Martin watches the construction almost every Sunday. She lost her four children and husband in the fire, and longs to tell her family about this effort. Look Wayne look what's going on what's happening isn't it great? Look at these people who are willing to do these things I don't have him there beside me to do that. Volunteers planned how the church finished for a special service on April 19th The anniversary of the fire.

14:03 in the modern media rolodex this is loving and a chihuahua is vicious and right winged Yeah, what would be the motive for that? You're asking me Peter? So we were Ed was making is they you were saying Clive That the neighbor said it was a two-month They were saying this man for two months and neighbor down over to Hill so they came in I think the first day

15:00 Well, see he was there when all the helicopters came in and all that sort of stuff. He heard all the shooting and everything And he said they parked down over the hill a bunch of ATF guys. Love officers! So he came out of his house walked... He's got a big front yard, yeah big field like us. He sat back off the road so he walked all the way over to the road as he walked toward him They come stomping, they come up out of the ground everywhere surrounding him figured it was a threat Yeah, and uh he says hey My kids want, you know... He says I'm wanting to get my kids out of the house. Is it over? Is it safe to go, you know, to town now or something?" He says, "...my kids are scared." And they told him to go back to the house pack his bags and be prepared to stay gone for two months. He said hey, I got cattle, I've got animals to feed so they made a whole family move out of their house. Did they pay him in? Paying at all?

15:50 They made his whole family move out of the house and he would have to come to the roadblock up at the other end here every day. And they would escort him with two ATF or FBI agents, escorted him back into the house so that we could feed these animals and then escorted away again. Did they pay as motel bills? Not that I know of. They might've but... Here's a question that Ed was asking Clive and the question is how could know that it was going to be around two months. Then they send the helicopters to shoot up the water supply, the water tanks, blue water tanks, to shoot up David's room Do you think they meant the raid to be a so-called botched raid? Having helicopters attack having them hit the front door

16:34 You think the whole thing was planned? I think it was planned all the way from the beginning. They told us in court that they rehearsed this thing in Fort Hood back in December, and they were supposed to have it down flat where they could have 130 people on on the floor, in handcuffs. I think it was like two minutes flat But they didn't put you in handcuffs and two minutes flat? They didn't get in That's my point Well actually they did get in It got up here This is your fiberglass ladder back here right? Stanchion Ladder The thing is that why would they shoot at the water supply right as the bullets are going through the front door

17:18 from the helicopters. They didn't want us to have any way of resisting, I guess and surviving any length... Well that's right any length of time that's the point if they told the neighbor to be prepared to be gone for two months and they come in and write it the first thing they do is shoot up the water supply because they're gonna have a raid that day and take everybody to jail thing is it ever but they say well i would you know they tell the public that we just trying to serve illegal war that they never brought with which none of the guys at least the ones they put on the witness stand in front not have seen it didn't have with him if anybody had all probably one of the guys on how to talk about nobody knew what this was the search for

17:59 Well, you've got a hundred man assault team. The question is why would they have helicopters firing from the back simultaneously as the BATF agents officers near the door? They claimed their orders were to be a diversion. That's what I was going to say to her. Major diversion shooting up your water supply. Well it sounds like they were trying to get you guys that is the Davidians to fire to start a firefight like they wanted confrontation. For the media? Well, I mean Catherine Madison and others who were upstairs have said Mike that they saw the helicopters firing first so... Wait a minute! I saw in a movie where Catherine Madison was in front shooting machine guns. Oh man! Made for TV movie? Yeah must be true. Must be true it's made for TV movie. Well here is thing they claim we were shooting 50 caliber machine gun at them on first day right yeah this is what if we had that

18:50 and it was working. We did have a .50 caliber, it wasn't a machine gun. Barrett semi-automatic. And we were told that it wasn't working, wasn't used on February 28th I was told by several people in there but you know they've stuck with their story that we fired this 50 caliber at them on the first day then why would somebody be shooting tanks with P rifles if you got a fifty caliber? But if we fire the fifty caliber at them on April 19 produce the tanks with the big dings in the side of it or holes, whatever. Well if you guys were so bloodthirsty how could the BATF at 60 yards away back away for several minutes with their hands up? Right I mean if we're a suicide cult and just wanted to go down in a blaze of glory and take as many people as we could with us none of them would have walked off on February 28

19:38 We could have massacred them all and then just wait for the big showdown that came after. But there weren't even any bullet holes in their pickups or in their cattle trailers? Well, there was according to the evidence they showed in court. The cattle truck that pulled up at the front door you know it was a second one... It had a bullet hole through the radiator Which when you put a dowel into it, it pointed directly up the road at the other cab. It didn't come from an angle to the building and also The driver jumped out left the door open And there's a bullet hole through the open door at the top of the open door into the roof of the cab on The off side from the building which means somebody over there was shooting

20:24 Right. From the houses or somebody, you know, going berserk over there it wasn't shot from the building. Right. So... Wait are you saying that somebody could have been shooting their own agents? Well yeah that's what he is saying. I'm not saying they got bullet holes in some of the vehicles but a lot of them, well several of them at least not bullet holes we could have shot They're on the far side away from the building Well thats..that has been brought forward in several different films and a lot of evidence Even the heavily edited VATF footage shows one of their own officers throwing in some type of grenade, whether it's flashbang or phosphorous or explosive. It probably wouldn't be phosphorous. Yeah. It probably would have been phosphorus or you would have had a fire but let's say either a flash or a shrapnel grenade they're...a concussion grenade they're throwing these in here and he is shooting into the room That's what appears like They deny that

21:21 Well you know three of those guys have been Clinton bodyguards. No, all four of them were. Three of them were Arkansas State Troopers and the other one was Secret Service or something that was on the campaign trail. All four came out alive One was wounded by his own guy We didn't shoot any of the guys who went in that window on the far side of the chapel There were two guys who tried to get into this side and ended up dead There's one I think that was over hiding behind a vault somewhere over in the field. He ended up dead and one of the guys at the front door ended up dead But none of those three that go in, you know Linda Thompson says all three of them are dead. Yeah she's wrong. It wasn't those three. According to the testimony in the trial all three of them end up getting out of that room The only damage any of em including the guy who looks like he gets shot in the head and kind rolls over when bullets come through the wall He is not wounded at all That's his Kevlar helmet Well he just ducking a reflex action

22:19 He just rolls over, then he jumps up and slides down the ladder. Yeah I've seen that in him. That messes his ankle up when it hits the ground. That's the only injury you had. So he was rolling around in a fetal position like a baby basically? Yeah he was yeah There was a guy on this side. Like a baby! See there were two ladders, everybody concentrates on the guys that go up the right hand side because they're trying to get in that window and they're jerking off the curtain you don't see what the other team did when they went over the hump What do they do? They were trying to get into the window on this side The other ones have got shot out Could have been the snapper teams in the house. No, it could have been the helicopters following up They're out here shooting up at David's room You know and that's where they're trying to get into what they thought was David's room Two of these guys I think two end up dead one of them wounded and he ended up rolling off the roof from what I understand That's the one they come around and pick up out of a courtyard here Where was Catherine's room? She's on the back toward

23:20 So this is David's room, they were shooting this away and Catherine was looking back. They were coming in across you know where I saw them anyway they were coming up near the swimming pool the helicopter. She said she saw them shooting into this part of a building What did you think when you saw helicopters? Well, what was your first reaction? The only time I saw the helicopter in the initial raid was as I was going down the hall which is out toward a driveway there and I could see right through into the cafeteria. There's a door out you know facing the swimming pool and as I went by I could see this helicopter

24:00 turning away, he was just in the process of turning away and doing a U-turn sort of thing. And when we went to trial in San Antonio they got up and said oh they didn't get any closer than I figured how many hundred meters or something? I says...I'm no judge at this, I'm not good judge. How far would like 500 meters or whatever? They say about football field or something like that. I said well that thing is right out here over the swimmable. That seems to me a lot closer then five hundred meters! You think the jury believed it? I don't know what the jury... They found you not guilty. Well, I don't think the jury were filled in enough even though they found him not guilty. That's the new American way! Seven or nine? We got rid of those juries too in federal trials now we just have judges but go ahead Klaahein Don't be an extremist police sheriff

24:54 I was going to say, I don't know on each individual point that came up that the jury was qualified to know whether they were being lied to or not initially. But a lot of them are pretty upset Having you know after they find out all the skullduggery that went on in the court. Well, yeah That's been the paper all the information that's come out since now You know Sarah Bain has spoken out plenty of times very upset I think it was a second memorial she came up and she brought several other jury people with her and you know leaving that jury

25:38 was a bit of a farce. There were several people that shouldn't have been on that jury. Or they won't? Well, first of all... They're ATF agents! First of all they whittled down 3,000 jurors out of 80 people so then they bring them out one by one and question the judge The judge would ask each one I don't want you to tell me what religion you are ISIS but would you consider yourself mainstream In other words, we don't need your witnesses Harry Krishna. You know what I'm saying? Yeah They weren't gonna let anybody that might be sympathetic to a small group so he said do you consider yourself mainstream religion and So then they had this one young girl that came up and she asked to be dismissed He says what's your reason she said well, I've just had a baby. I'm breastfeeding and all nice Oh

26:29 Well, we're only going to be on the jury from 9 until about 4. He says you can squeeze some milk out and put it in a bottle and have a babysitter feed the baby during the day. He says you'll be home by 5 or 5 30 so you can feed it at night." and he made her stay on the jury. Well that was, you might say fine up to a point. Clive he hurt the children? Up to a point. They love their children! He got away with that during the trial but when you sequester a jury to make a major decision they don't want to be locked out for days or weeks yeah You know they're gonna rush to the decision And another girl who's going to night school pulled the same deal on her well we're not gonna be here tonight if you can still be on the jury

27:08 And then when the trial just... You'll have plenty of time to study. Real early in the trial, a note was apparently handed to the judge came from the jury People on the jury were letting the judge know that the guy who was on the jury had already made his mind up before he heard anything that we were guilty, you know. And so they brought this to the judge instead of dismissing him and saying you can't be on a jury with that kind of an attitude They just kind of gave him a slap on his wrist Well do you promise not to say that again? Something like that! Okay Judge, you know...and they left him out I mean it's prejudice

27:52 So you're telling me that... That's in the court record, that your lawyers had a motion to get this guy out of there. Tell us the story! This is important on the record Somebody on the jury note, sent a note to the judge apparently that one of the jury people had already made statements right at the beginning that he felt we were guilty and it hadn't even started. You know what I'm saying? He'd let them know his feelings prior to hearing all the evidence so they informed the judge of this but instead of kicking the guy off the jury and picking someone else You know putting one of the ultimate in his place or something they kept him on just with a kind of a warning you know, uh, you can't be saying that and don't you know? Don't let...you're not supposed to have Opinions without listening and he's supposed to be unbiased. No, no, you're gonna do this again That sort of thing, you know Oh yeah okay judge Now what exactly did the jury rule but not guilty on all the murder charges correct But that there was firearms violations from what I understand

28:56 And this kind of stinks in a way. Our lawyers went to the prosecuting lawyers at some point during the suit, they never informed us it wasn't something that they discussed with us They said to the prosecutors we feel that its only fair you let us at some point write-in self defense into this charges From what I understand, the prosecuting attorney says well we'll let you write self-defense if you let us write in voluntary manslaughter. So they made a deal so when... Without consulting it? Yeah! That's an important point yeah We were not asked were we willing to cut a deal or would we you know and that's not really valid then your attorney has to get your plea. Should but anyway the thing is

29:55 When it came down to separating the jury, from what I understand the judge gave the jury instructions on how to vote. And on the third count which is apparently where they... The third count was having a weapon during the commission of violent crime. Going into trial we were told that was a five and ten year sentence if you're found guilty. Somewhere along the way when they made this deal They put all these extra wording into the third charge And so, when the jury is separated to go make their decision. The judge gives them instructions on how to vote and I think they said there was like 90 pages of instructions on how to vote on the third count some fantastic number of pages anyway and you know just bamboozled them to even wade through it let alone understand what they were getting into So

30:49 They came up with not guilty on conspiracy to murder, which was the first charge. Not guilty for everybody on aiding and abetting the murder of federal agents but on the weapons charge because of testimony some of it false some of it may be true Some of them you know had you know, not evidence necessarily but testimony that they had a gun. Mike Livingston for instance he got three ATF agents get up and say who's the guy that shot me? Well I shot my friend you know Well, in their initial reports on February 28th or afterwards when they're talking to the Texas Rangers. The ones that... One guy says well we got out of the first truck we ran around the north end of the building and we just got around the corner here's three guys standing in the backyard two white guys and a black guy And the black guy was huge! When I first saw them I thought they were our guys because they had black on and masks

31:54 Oh, that's Delta Force. Goggles you know he said I thought they were our guys but the next thing they opened fire at us point blank so one guy gets kind of worried he's got a vest on so it just gets bruised from the ones that hit the vest but i think he got one in his neck or ricocheted off his neck or something So he rolls over into ditch over here and when the other two guys jump behind the tractor and they're hiding out they don't get shot One guy said... He thought there are their guys He says the black guy was huge. Another guy says, yeah the black guy is about 5'10". You know and none of them saying well we could recognize any of them because they got goggles and stuff on so they said... Did you have goggles and mask? I never saw any of our guys with goggles but you know I couldn't say that nobody had... Black uniforms? Any black uniform? There were people with black pants or maybe it's a black T-shirt as long as he didn't have a uniform per se. Black ski masks? No not black ski masks

32:52 I mean, you didn't have their type of wear. No. So anyway what I've said all along is okay what they do is nobody can identify who these people are until somewhere during the siege May not May March the 15th or something you know Livingston David sends Livingstone out with a message to FBI and The next thing we know, it's in the press. Livingston is the guy that shot this ATF agent. He is the big tall...Livingston is a little bitty guy either shorter than me or no higher anyway so I said okay they've got a guinea pig now They only black guy who comes out of here alive is Livingstone and he has to be the black guy that does the shooting even though he is small doesn't fit the description

33:45 So then you got, I says well how come they never tried to pin the two white guys? They never identified anybody as being the white guys. But they pick on Livingston to be the black guy and so there was Brad Branch and myself sitting in a courtroom we said to our boys We want you put us on witness stand so that we can testify that Brad Branch wasn't out, I mean Livingstone wasn't out in the backyard. We saw him somewhere else in the building we can vouch for that he wasn't that tutor the judge wouldn't allow it. He says we were co-defendants, therefore uh... we couldn't testify on his behalf and what's more if even if you did be impartial I mean to do be partial be self serving but always thought he could put anybody wanted to understand anyway so then our lawyers filed a motion to separate Livingston from the rest of that the trial have a separate trial then we can testify that was denied as well most of things yes let me stop for just a second Clive on this issue of

34:45 You're saying there's three counts. Go back through those... There were several counts beyond that, but everybody had the first three. Some had extra. Okay And if somebody says I'm going to hand you a gun or something like Paul wasn't even there so he got some slightly different counts because of his name on the receipt for some guns Legal guns He bought them legally and everything it had nothing to do with any altering or anything they were trying to pin on us But they, on the strength of it, claimed that they found a check. A single check not a cheque book but a single check lying in the machine shop here after the fire with his account So they said that showed Paul worked in the machine shop and was changing weapons to automatic Okay so the question is this...a side question

35:35 During the Senate hearings, we saw them hold up a pristine Mac 90. A semi-automatic version of a Russian field weapon We saw them hold this up and say this came out of the fire This is illegal Now there's this huge fire Well one of the guns that they held up They claimed it got out of Mike Schroeder's van which was out in front I can't say whether or not they did or didn't But that was an illegal semi automatic rifle? I don't know what was in his truck, whether they got it out of his truck or not. But that's what they presented. They had a whole table of unburned guns! Well...I don't know where they got all the unburned guns

36:17 But I mean last time i checked here in Texas you're allowed to have guns. Sure, you are allowed to have guns but most of the guns we had were burned up So they found you not guilty on the murder? They found everybody not guilty on conspiracy and they found everybody not guilty of murder What the jury did because of various testimony that was given like it said whether true or false The fact that we didn't put a defense on left that testimony standing They said, well we've got people saying so and so had a gun or this guy's saying I had a gun. And they came up with guilty on the gun charge and went through the other charges either guilty or not guilty depending on what they were. So guilty in having a gun in a crime when you were found not guilty of the main crime? Right after their verdict, the judge dismisses it. They're allowed to go

37:11 Both sides, all the lawyers from both sides run up to the bench and say Judge how can you have people guilty of having a weapon during the commissioning of a crime if they found not guilty of a crime? He says yeah your right. The jury messed up and I've already dismissed them If i had to find them all again or bring em back I'd have to instruct them that they made a mistake All they could do if they were going to change it at all would be to say not guilty so ill just scrap the third count But then by Monday... That was the end of argument. Yeah, back them off you know? So then on the Monday the feds had already filed for reinstatement at a third count and the judge turned around changed his mind and on the strength that I think in June or July when he came down to sentencing He gives him 10 years plus 30 so they were guilty of conspiracy guilty of murder guilty of having automatic weapons which was never proved

38:07 Nobody was... So they're found not guilty, but he says they're guilty. Sure And that's how it stands even in the press I don't even deny that It's so asinine They appealed that Well they did The stupid lawyers didn't appeal their convictions Which i think they should have What they appealed was a sentencing Maybe they weren't stupid Bob maybe the lawyers weren't stupid You know what I mean But They only appealed to sentencing And so when it went to the Fifth Circuit in Louisiana, and I read the report. They had three different Fifth Circuit judges that reviewed the case. You can't present any new evidence in an appeal all you can present is whether you feel the trial was handled properly. Basically that's what your appealing is that it wasn't conducted right So what they reviewed, what they looked at and decided was well

39:02 He's got all this ever we've reviewed the evidence. We've reviewed all the testimony and since you guys didn't put on a defense Therefore we have to go with the evidence and the jury found on the weight of evidence that you know and now it's going to the supreme court they suggested was that judge uh... recess in other words to me that means the sense of the game is wrong some problem overbearing too much so the telling the recent but put in a back-to-smith adult recents on themselves like put it back on smith say what is up to your discretion well here's the guess in the same amount of time here's the question um... we see this happen live we see them do this

39:46 It's going to the Supreme Court now. What do you think the Supreme Court is gonna do? Well, I'm hoping they'll let them out. You know if they'd have got... Let's say that it got the gun charge if it would have held up at all and it was a 5-10 year sentence these guys are done 7 years already If your in federal prison your supposed to be able to unless you get no good time at all you know if the judge refuses to let you out on good time normally you can do 80% In other words in 8 years they woulda been out But the way he's given them 40 years, these bodies aren't coming out under normal circumstances. They're going to die in jail. So... They'd be old men you know? But again back to that same point you've made How if they're however found not guilty conspiracy to commit murder not guilty of murder and then the third count is Having a weapon during the commission of a crime having a weapon during the commission of a crime You were found not guilty of crimes Technically they should have been not guilty on the weapons charge

40:48 And the weapons charge was not that the weapons were illegal, but that they were using the commission of a crime. Just that they had to have it. It doesn't say you had to use them They just had a weapon during the commission of a crime But like I said... Like armed robbery? Doesn't matter whether he used them or didn't So that's like saying your armed at your house Graham Craddock never You know, he admitted to him that he had a weapon but he never used him the whole time Well here-but again just to boil down for people who are watching this We do air it live They're sitting there saying that you're not guilty, but then they are still saying that you are guilty of having a weapon during the commissioning of crime. They would try to look at the evidence or what they considered as testimony presented and their lawyers didn't really put on a defense But thats ridiculous Sure its ridiculous Who were your lawyers? My lawyer was Dan Cargill out of Houston What did he think of Dan? Good lawyer

41:50 He told me right off the bat he wasn't there to defend David. He wasn't there to defend the whole group, but he was there as my defense and got me off Who is a so-called lead attorney? Did the judge appoint a lead attorney or counsel? Probably if anybody had seniority or leadership it would have been Mike DeGaren Do you think that the defense was compromised I think they were compromised by the fact that the judge wouldn't allow any money to bring in expert witnesses, you know...to do anything. What do you mean he wouldn't allow any money? He demanded that we all wear suits and ties. He wouldn't even give us any money to buy suit and tie.

42:36 All my clothes that were here were burned up and the ones I was wearing when they came out, they cut off with scissors. Did he hold you in contempt for not wearing a suit? No, our lawyers requested there be money allotted for us to get experts for defense or bringing in different situations and he refused all of that How much did the government spend? Millions probably They brought every little mom and pop gun dealer from all over the United States that had anything to do with it. Whether they sold us a book or whether they sold a gun, what? They brought them all down to testify. As if that's something dirty to sell guns at gun shows! I was surprised. I thought gun dealers were kind of like militia with camos and gun belts hanging all over them in a gun show sort of thing. And I'm thinking, whoa you know have all these gun dealers

43:28 But when they came in, their little grandmas and grandpas trying to put the kids through colleges on. What is it like? Clive what is it like to have Judge Walter Smith engage In the in the criminal actions that I think are cleared, at least clear to me Alex Jones and i'll put that on the record. To see the judge Walter Smith engaged this criminal activity and this obstruction of justice in this huge railroad now Clive to have him refusing to recuse himself in a civil case where you're trying to take action get back your good name lost your daughter he lost her friends ask after all of this, he will not recuse himself. I remember seven months ago when he was all acting like he was gonna be Mr. Goody Two-Shoes you said on my radio program and i agreed that you think it's the same old fraud all over again just more acting? I think its more the cover up He is still playing the same role he played 7 years ago or 6 years ago So what do you think of Judge Walter Smith? I don't think much of Judge Walter Smith period but what I can understand

44:29 the media or the courts, whoever has any authority in this country can look at the evidence of this man's performance both in trial and since and say that this guy is unbiased. I don't see how anybody including the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals can say well this guy is not a biased judge." How can they call former Senator John Danforth, an independent counselor and independent investigator when he's appointed by Janet Reno the Attorney General to investigate Janet Reno the Attorney General. Well I think they can call them whatever they like in this country because they tend to screw the English language up pretty good. They take the meaning away from words and you know things don't have the same value as they used to when we were in school Would you say that people out there better watch their words? Well what I'm saying

45:20 There's a lot of catchphrases, there's a lot of double talk. There is a lot of deception and covering up I don't know what the real meaning of the word independent is in their mind but I know what it means to me and I don't whether he fits the bill. Let's put it that way. Cloude Doyle were you guys operating a speed lab out here? No we weren't We were totally against drugs Well I've been told by the Survivor Affairs Committee like yourself David would have somebody thrown out if they were doing drugs People that had done drugs or having a problem whether it was drinking, smoking or whatever that wanted to come here and make a new start were invited to come. But if the temptation got so great that they couldn't resist they were asked to leave. So drugs are not allowed out here? What had gone on prior to our you might say being in charge here was way back in the 80's mid-80's

46:22 There was a lab, George Roden had invited some former convicts you know former prisoners to come out here and gave them pretty well free reign to do what they liked. And they had pornography ring and drug lab stuff from what I understand when David came here When we came back and got our property back in 88' Some of this stuff was found which we handed over the Sheriff's Department So they, it was pretty clear at least with the locals that you guys were anti-drug. They all knew our position we had a good rapport with the Sheriff's Department they used to come out here and fish they'd come out here and trade car parts You know... Use of shooting range

47:04 I don't know about the Sheriff's Department doing that, but we didn't have a shooting range. We had a heap of dirt out there which people would stick tin can on or some blocks of wood and maybe try out shooting a little bit but...we didn't have a shooting range. We didn't have military training camp and all that kind of stuff you hear. Well for me, shootin' range is a term in the backyard. Well what'd I say? We didn't have targets, we didn't have measured distances or anything. And most people... Clive why do you think the government attacked you guys? Clive, why do you think the government... I'm sorry. I think there's a lot of reasons... I believe that the attack was on various levels. I think that the ATF had an agenda.

47:50 this government wants to take over and take away the freedoms of everybody had an agenda. And this was part of their plan, but you know, you hear a lot of stories about what was going on in the ATF with sexual discrimination within the department stories of them being dissolved or reabsorbed into another agency have heard all those stories that you ever hear about their clan meeting when they got caught from what I From our point of view, I believe that like the Bible says there's a devil out there and the devil wants to do away with anybody that is trying to improve their lifestyle. To do better you know? You start studying the Bible and your already under suspicion and suspect and the devil wants to get rid of those kind of people. And unfortunately they are people who lend themselves to bringing that about

48:43 You know, when it says the devil goes to make war against the saints. It could be supernatural but I think it's done through human beings that allow themselves to be directed in that line. So puppets? Well, thanks. Why okay appreciate it. I was gonna ask you a question No, no, Alex turned us into an interview Oh You don't have to be out here Clive no It was just a question about on that day one the first day when they came in shooting and

49:27 You had that semi-automatic .50 caliber, that you said wasn't working. But were there... was there any evidence that the Feds were shooting 50 caliber rounds? I mean did you see .50 caliber holes in the building at all? Because Catherine at one point said when she went out on March 2nd or whatever There was some kind of like a huge hole in the front door There was some holes in the front door, but I mean they had shotguns. They had no fight What is it mp5 so whatever they had handgun? I don't know what all they were shooting per se I know what they claim they had Whether that's truthful or not we know there was snipers across the road what they were shooting We don't know right But what you know after the initial raid and and

50:17 adrenaline and kind of calm down everything, and we're beginning to hear on the radio the stories that they're putting out you know to the media like oh they were shooting all kinds stuff in 50 caliber. I knew we had a .50 caliber David showed it one night at one of the meetings so i went to couple guys think I asked Let's see, a couple of guys that were upstairs where the .50 caliber was supposed to be. I says what are all these stories about us firing the 50 caliber at them? One guy says the .50 caliber was never used he said it was sitting over in a corner or something and never got used. I asked somebody else about it and they says the .50 caliber couldn't have been use because it doesn't work That was two different people telling me that

51:04 And so I accepted them. Well, I got more reason to believe our guys than these liars you know? So like i said if we had it and if it was automatic and if we were shooting at them on the first day Then on the last day they got all these tanks busting through into the building. Why didn't we use it on them then? Right, and if we were shooting which they claim we were on April 19th how come They don't play these bug tapes They're supposed to have yeah, they got all these voices from all over the building you've only got one bug tape They said that works But yet you there's supposedly picking voices up from upstairs downstairs in the foyer Yeah, but they already I think was about

51:46 about I didn't hear any shooting from inside on April 19th. But did you all put, or make Molotov cocktails? They always talk about it... I never saw any. When your in this kind of a situation... Tanks running around... War! When your getting all these threats like we were being told even before April 9th We don't want anybody in the tower

51:04 And so I accepted them. Well, I got more reason to believe our guys than these liars you know? So like i said if we had it and if it was automatic and if we were shooting at them on the first day Then on the last day they got all these tanks busting through into the building. Why didn't we use it on them then? Right, and if we were shooting which they claim we were on April 19th how come They don't play these bug tapes They're supposed to have yeah, they got all these voices from all over the building you've only got one bug tape They said that works But yet you there's supposedly picking voices up from upstairs downstairs in the foyer Yeah, but they already I think was about

51:46 about I didn't hear any shooting from inside on April 19th. But did you all put, or make Molotov cocktails? They always talk about it... I never saw any. When your in this kind of a situation... Tanks running around... War! When your getting all these threats like we were being told even before April 9th We don't want anybody in the tower

52:33 If we see anybody in the tower, we'll consider that a threatening gesture. We don't want anybody looking out the windows." They start making demands more and more as they got to the end... Like I say, that develops an attitude. I can remember talking to people in the choppers and saying well if they do come in with a tank like how do you stop a tank for crying out loud? And of course your thinking all kinds of things what could you do stick a crowbar in their trunk. Clive what about them also calling a few days before the final assault or attack where they told you it wasn't an assault with classic double speak

53:09 Clive, what about them calling and saying you better have fire extinguishers? Do you have any fire extinguishers? That call from what I understand was made...I'm not sure of the date. A few days before, I guess before the last day and Steve Schneider, I believe was on the phone And they asked him did we have any fire extinguishers He didn't even know so he kind of asked somebody to run find out and then he tells them well uh i'm told we got one and the guy is supposed to have said, you know well you better get yourself some fire insurance. But that's not a first-hand story other than listening to the tape. Oh it's on the tape? It's on the tape yeah. Clyde, the reason I was asking so much about that .50 caliber on that first day is wasn't it on the first day when that monohelicopter was shot down or was...was that on the...that was the first day right? Well he was shot up anyway. All three helicopters claim

54:06 No, there was one that actually... None of them. Well I don't know whether it couldn't fly again. I don't think it was totally crippled but it did take some shots in And the reason I ask that is, if there's any evidence like they used 50 caliber maybe on the other helicopters or something shooting up the building. Or if there's any 50 caliber fire at all... My question is, Is that night vision? Yes You can take it out of night vision because there isn't enough light there Take it out and I'll do this Well look Clyde quick because I want to make sure we got something where its not just... Well let me just... Clydes going to be green on this There you go now you can think better That felt great! 28th! Thank you, you sell better than out there

54:46 February 28th, I filmed a little green. Okay hold it. If you do a bright flash you kind of ruin it don't ya? Well its not film its just tapes and digital tomorrow. Yeah but uh yeah what... Talk Clive we've got the light on here! I just want to get this question It's ah.. You remember Mario Boykin The guy the pizza shop guy from Austin? A buddy of his is the maintenance chief, or was at that time a maintenance chief for those helicopters out of Fort Hood. And I think it was the day after... one or two days after when they assaulted a place here, Mario went up to Fort Hood and talked to this guy

55:27 and the guy pointed out a .50 caliber hole in that helicopter. And Mario told me that he stuck his finger into that hole, and he recognized it as being like a 50-caliber size. So I was curious if they even shot their own helicopter down? I couldn't vouch for that. They maintained during trial we'd shot at the helicopters, and it's quite possible some of them did. Well, I would have if they were shooting at my house! But... some footage, a friend in Houston showed us some footage that he had of where these helicopters are flying and they're coming in approaching the place. And then it has this footage where they land in a field out here somewhere I guess down over the hill near this neighbor's house and they get out point right at the hole and I said there is something wrong with this footage They know exactly where the holes are before they even get out! No kidding? Is this their second time

56:24 looked, you know or not but it almost looks like the stage for the camera. Because there's a guy taking this picture they all get out of the helicopter oh look! Look! Look! That makes sense that makes sense yeah that they didn't actually shoot the helicopter down but they put holes in in order to get some footage and 50 caliber holes just so I could say that y'all had a fifty caliber machine gun Punch three or four holes in there, 50 caliber holes aren't they? You got a 50 caliber crowbar you got a 50 caliber hole. Used to do that with a pencil I was in the army used to do that with a pencil it's a 30 caliber. Well Clive you said earlier if they want to burn this down again they're gonna have some trouble aren't they yeah we'd even have trouble. With all that no burn

57:13 Tell ya I got said if God wants it to burn It'll burn no matter where it's made of brick. Amen If God doesn't want it to burn don't know what they do it won't burn man That's what you have to put your trust in You know the final bottom line is as whether you believe, you know In god or not there's a question in the bios, you know statement I should say that says, uh, you know Yeah, if the builders built without God on their side, then they build in vain. So that's one reason we need to be considerate of how we act and what we talk about and everything else while we're in there. This is a special place you know it's not just any old building sort of thing. So anyway...

58:02 Did we answer your question? Yes, I believe so. Clive...I think that's the answer actually is they put those holes there themselves Well, I'm not swearing to you but my first question on seeing the footage was There's something wrong with this picture these guys know where every hole is when they're just jumping out like they've just landed And this is the first time it's yeah got out of the plane. You may know you've taken some shots, but you're going to have to look for them. Oh! That's where we got hit. This is a staged deal just for the camera. They so happened to have a camera there when they landed. Now, Clark, they don't lie...

58:44 I don't know, maybe they've been lying so much that it feels like standing up. Yeah. You know all their focus is... After a while if you lie... I fell off They had a church up the front gate when i first came. I was doing a job in there one day and the ladder slipped out from under me and the ladder fell down and I landed on my back on top of the ladder knocked the wind out of me, so I was laying there for quite a while before it could get up. And I'm looking at the ceiling and all of sudden my brain just kind of flipped over to where the ceiling looked like the floor everything looked like it was the right way up only... the lights were coming up out of the floor and the pews are all along the ceiling you know just laying there kinda dazed. Maybe that's how they view things from different perspective. That's good Clive thanks!

59:33 Right after the raid, when ATF and everybody are giving this press conference and everything they're talking about how we ambushed them and then we were all at the window shooting and all that. And I'm going wow! You know that's not the truth? So I go up to my room or I've been in my room...I go back to my room and my rooms intact there is no bullet hole in my room at all mine was a third window from the north end And so I'm going, whew! At least the can say Clive Dover's in his room shooting at the ATF coming in. Because I got no bullet holes there is no reaction to any firing on my part see? So this goes on all during the shootout time

1:00:11 This is evidence. This is good evidence, you know? My room's not shut up and my glass number. Lo and behold just before the last... maybe a week before the last they're clearing it Every time we'd send somebody out they punished us by tearing up cars or tearing down fences Throwing a flashbang Whatever They come along one day with the tanks and they're bulldozing all the trees down the fence. And I have a tree right outside my window, they bulldoze that tree and a branch comes right through the window. There goes my evidence that there was no shooting on February 28th because the glass is all smashed up you know? Now Clive what did you think when you were told a few minutes before they got here that hey somebody's coming out to search the house or the VATF for the police or something What do you think was going to happen if they did come out here for a search

1:01:00 I mean, initially? Yes. And you're happy if they're mad... I really didn't know! We knew that we were being watched from across the road for about six weeks before the raid. Early in January these guys moved into the house and they started acting strange right from the start. They'd be shooting out in the backyard when we tried to go over and be friendly but wouldn't let us in their house all kinds of weird stuff going on so we were suspicious but I never heard David or anyone else say hey the ATF watching. We knew somebody was watching us, but we thought maybe it was immigration people because we had people from all over the world here and they're suspicious you know they're watching to see who's...who we got here so there's no big deal but on February 28th

1:01:53 From what I remember, people tell me it was drizzling or raining that day. All I can remember is being in my room we'd already had breakfast and I was back in my room and all of a sudden you hear a lot of people out here in the cafeteria and I thought what's going on? Seems to be a lot of people out there and they've already eaten so what's the deal? So I go in there to find out whats going on and somebody says hey we just got word that somebodys coming its gonna be some kind of raid or whatever And about that time, David walked in from this side. He'd come down the hall and come into the cafeteria from this other side and basically confirmed it. We just heard that there's a whole bunch of some kind of agents coming... ...and he says I want everybody to stay cool go back to your rooms just be calm. He said i'll go down the front door and talk to them see what they want and try to talk to them

1:02:49 So I went back to my room, and heard him walk down the hall. Heard him open the front door and next thing he's yelling, hey wait a minute there are women and children here! Let's talk about this... All hell breaks loose, shots coming in from the front door like crazy My initial reaction was run down the hall because I figured it would be blood and guts everywhere Massacre And I get about about level with where we are, about halfway down the hall. And Perry Jones is crawling up the hall screaming that he's been shot! He'd gone to the front door with David and he's telling me David has been shot so I'm trying to comfort him, he's laying on the floor and screaming...and uh..I said hang in there Perry because i'm thinking there's all these other people dead inside the front door or whatever So I go running down there and low and behold there was no one inside No one in the foyer area at all. So I run back to Perry and try to help him

1:03:44 So on the tape as we see the BATF from the outside firing in incessantly, you guys are just going around trying to look for people that have been shot. You mean you guys aren't lining the windows shooting like television shows? I mean like made-for-TV movies? The movie's aren't real? There've been a lot more than four dead and twenty wounded if everybody had been there with guns and automatic weapons shooting at them but no that's not the case I'd say most people were taken by surprise. Even though you're initially told somebody's coming, you don't realize that it was going to be a bloody mess You know what I'm saying? Maybe have a little trepidation Well... Are they gonna haul us all outside or are we all going to jail What's the procedure? We didn't know what was gonna happen But David more or less said everybody stay calm and I'll go down and talk to him So he figured out He'll handle it And so

1:04:37 Next thing we know all this shooting at the front door people upstairs of course are hearing the shooting from helicopters and So like I say, I went running down a fine Perry shot crawled just dragging himself up punish Hands and knees sort of saying up the hallway. I end up helping him to bed by the time I put him in Abed on this side of the long hallway on in the men's dorm area Somebody says Winston's dead. That's always here. Oh I said, well he's up in his room. So i go up there and as I get up to that end where his room is... ...I could hear water running! That's strange what what's that? so when I get to his door and look in he's laying on the floor a pool of blood and water and and his windows all shattered and he had these water tanks out on it on a platform at the back

1:05:30 And they were completely blocking his windows, not like you could see in or he could see out. These big plastic water tanks were right up against his window but what the helicopters had done is shot into the... riddled all of the water tanks and him, he was sitting on the other side of it and got a bullet in the head Was there any water coming in? Oh yeah, it was all over the floor. The carpet was soaked with blood and water And of course I'm trying to feel for a pulse He's a pretty big black guy from England Had a real thick neck So I'm thinking Is it this that I can't find a pulse or is he really dead you know Where was the bullet hole on his head? Uh...I don't remember exactly All I remember is laying there You know so uh

1:06:16 How many holes would you estimate? I mean a lot of holes or just a few holes in the water tanks. Oh there was a lot, in fact one day during the siege uh...I was going by the doorway there and I looked in and Greg sitting he'd gone upstairs and got all the boys little plastic toy soldiers, you know little plastic men and that And he's sitting there with a little dinky miniature blowtorch thing, trying to melt the plastic men to plug up the holes in the water tank. Because we were going try and get the pump going again and maybe fill them up with water." I says, you're wasting your time Greg. He says what do you mean? Well, you're filling all of the holes on the window side on the inside but they are riddled on the other side too! You know unless your gonna go out and expose yourself and fill them up

1:07:01 It's still going to leak out the other side. Now what angle were the holes coming in? They were coming down an angle, high on the outside and low on the inside There is nothing out there that you can't say well there was a guy in a big building across the alley shooting down into your room Because there is nothing but... Yeah it's sky Not even the snipers up there, I don't believe could have done it. Because it was coming at a... They're at the same level that house down the road? Right! That's what I'm saying It would have to be from playing helicopter or something So you were expecting to brought on the lawn and having them search through your stuff You didn't do that No, like I said this was couple of days later when The arrangement was we'd all go out We'd all come out together And so I went down in kitchen here packed lunch Paper bag lunch for my daughter and me

1:07:48 We'll all just go out and sit on the lawn, and they'll come in here search the building get whatever they come to get. And when they're through we will all come back in! That's how stupid it was... naive But as time wore on and more people came out, they were all going to jail. You see pictures of them in their orange suits being arraigned in court. This is not meant to be simplified up. What about later when branch of it would try to come out and get papers or documents? I'd say the last week before the fire. So even when the feds... If somebody come out on the roof, if they come out a window or doorway for whatever reason including Steve Schneider who

1:08:33 had already arranged over the phones to come out and they were going to bring some kind of stuff in. I don't know whether it was supplies for the typewriter or what, but they were bringing something in a tank and pulled up out there on the driveway he came out front door walked over to them gave him his stuff turned around got just about open the front door and lobbed these two flashbangs at him scared the daylights out of me David Jones got lobbed that we're out in the gym one day digging hole for potty hole, you know. For dead? No no no for waste. Oh okay So we could hear them lobbing these things out just outside the wall It was kind of scary to hear them even though they were on the other side of the wall Flashbang grenades Well I assumed that's what it sounded like same kinda noise We didn't see those ones but like i heard

1:09:26 Pablo Cohen got flashbangs, David Jones got flashbangs, Steve Schneider got flashbangs. So they would call you out to give you information or give you milk and throw flash bangs? Well Steve went out on what you might say an official agreed upon rendezvous on that particular day some of the other guys might have just stepped out for whatever reason. I'm sure you guys called to the negotiators and brought that up, what did they say when you said hey you told us come out your throwing grenades at us? Most times when you brought any

1:10:04 thing to their attention, to the negotiators' attention. They would disassociate themselves well you know we tell you things in good faith and uh... you know where the good guys but the tactical team we got no control over them and they just do whatever they want to do Good cop bad cop yeah so Do you think it was good cop bad cop psychology or real? I think some of the negotiators genuinely were upset that they were losing credibility because of the actions of the people in the tanks and so forth. I think, you know one was hurting the other's efforts. So do you think that negotiators and troops out here actually had a little bit of feud going or? You don't know? Yeah, I think there is certain amount of rivalry. They like to throw up at David when we didn't come out as agreed early into peace

1:10:56 they made this accusation that, well you're a liar. You know what I mean? If you were, you can't be trusted and on one of the tapes David brings up he says, well you promised Certain things the other day and now it's different or you know, you didn't come through for us. Well well You could understand we're just peons, you know We're just here doing the negotiating but we've got bosses over us making decisions. How can I make a deal with you? And then you know They've got bosses in Washington that Overrule them and you just gotta understand we really don't have a whole lot of power and Davis is why is it that she can't understand But I got a boss upstairs

1:11:40 that sometimes overrules, you know something we've agreed on yesterday he may say no. Why can't you understand that I've got a higher up person that i gotta answer to and yet you know you want to call me a liar? You want to say well I'm not a man of my word but you can cop out when your promises don't come by because well we got people over us you know... We just we've heard about the the hostage rescue teams, the military people mooning and flashing you guys. Was that one reason you guys didn't... It certainly develops an attitude I mean everything even though things may or may not I don't know people's hearts but like at one point the people from the Methodist home where they were taking all our kids They sent a video in supposedly to show us how well they were treating our kids

1:12:33 and you got the TV blaring, kids have got an ice cream and a Coke watching videos. And they're just bouncing off the furniture like they're having a sugar high. Most of the mothers that saw it were pretty upset going that is not how we taught our children to behave It's not like we wouldn't give them an ice cream or something from time-to-time but it wasn't their steady diet But they thought they were being good to the kids by loading up with sugar And like I said, one of the comments that I heard was this is sad. You know you wouldn't think some of these kids just saw their mother shot or saw some of their friends wounded a few days before and here they are. Thank for the camera and all this kind of stuff. Like I said, people who made the video may have had good intentions but it was used

1:13:28 It had a negative effect, we'll say on us. A lot of the parents that still had children and they were hesitant about wanting to send them out to this kind of situation. The same with when you made reference to the mooning and giving the finger and making threats and all it develops in attitude in people that are dealing with it. monsters or these are people that who wants to give their kids... Mike you're yelling as loud as you possibly could. So, every situation creates and your moods go up and down I mean you going through rationed food You have to go the bathroom on a bucket and empty it dig a hole in there or whatever

1:14:15 We were used to, you might say primitive conditions compared to some people. But that was even a harder thing to have to deal with for 51 days and like I said everything can make you have an attitude And so...you know..I just from what I remember of peoples comments and stuff like that they were not too respectful You might say by the time we get through the 51 day they don't have much A bad hair day. Faith and confidence, trust in the FBI. Yeah I mean a bad hair day pretty crazy. Well like i said we were used to hardship The hardship was bothering us in a way but it wasn't having the desired effect that they wanted to have In other words several people survived an came out I know lost 25-30 pounds including myself in weight just from lack of water and food because we were on rations

1:15:16 we weren't mad because we were hungry, sort of thing. We were more upset with the attitudes that were coming across the phones or loudspeakers things like that...the fact they weren't operating in good faith and plus you know we're watching them every day get up and do these media briefings 10 o'clock every morning at the convention center and they just lying or painting a picture that's just making us look like cooks And so, you know... I mean, see? You don't have much respect. Bob, did you ever stop and think that while this is going on it's setting the stage for hey the government is good we go raid bad people We take them out They're kooks! Your'e on our side were are the winning team Kind of like a Super Bowl mentality nationwide for 51 days What I see with law enforcement and goverment agents especially on the federal level Is that they want to be

1:16:17 They want to come across as the good guy. They want to be the public, to believe in them makes their job easier but in all reality the bottom line is they don't give a damn what you think But they would like you to think that they're good guys So if they'll go through a certain amount of subterfuge and lying and painting the other guy bad To make themselves look good They'd like you to accept that image but if you don't they really don't care They're going to do what they are anyway Well the big thing is they want to get local support because Clive, in the last seven years we're coming up on seven years coming up on April 19th here in 2000 I've talked so many SWAT team police military government agents talk them across the board on the radio and off-the-air. They say that starting seven years ago Waco was the kickoff for merging the military and the police.

1:17:12 you know, Reagan and Brady and all them people getting wounded was enough to start all this gun legislation. Things like that. What is gun control about? Why do powerful governments always seek to disarm the population? Because they don't want a population that can fight back or protect themselves They want subdued people, they want people who will do what they're told be productive slaves basically and they're willing to give you the football game on a Sunday, that kind of thing as partial reward. I mean you take the Roman Empire... The worse it got, more dictatorial it got and less their money was worth anything They come up with all these games in the Coliseum blood sports and stuff to keep people preoccupied or say diverted from the real world. The surviving Davidians say the same thing That's what they do for job

1:18:11 It's like I lie when I tell what I tell. I'm telling the truth and if people accept it fine We just believe that God would not let the truth be hidden and Waco keeps burning Are you there sir? Hello yes, can you hear me my ass we can hear you go right ahead? I was just gonna make a statement up I truly believe that David Koresh is a Christian And he believed in biblical love the biblical concept of the bible i think he truly absolutely reached whatever the bible teaches but this is just an example of what's going to happen to us christians we are gonna be uh... look at it as a sect of demonic beings or whatever because we believe in the lord jesus christ and I think that thats why the Lord says, be prepared to suffer. Because I think were gonna suffer alot of the same thing that david koresh did with people who lived there at camp uh...because

1:19:04 profess to be Christians and believe in Jesus Christ. So it's just something that they're going to show the people that if you do profess to be a Christian, and you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but this is just an example of what's gonna happen to those people who profess to be Christians." And that's just a comment I wanted to make. Well there is a one world order coming into being...and when they have the one world order fully, there is going to be a religion that everyone will be expected to go along with. And I'm sure it will not be biblical because they hate the... They go after the people that are studying the Bible. Operation, and here you have

1:20:20 a federal agent grimacing this young lady here. You see Clive Doyle, the man that I know is as gentle as a lamb being led by the federal agent to his jail cell. Here you have the people that were killed by special military forces, black ops squads, that is secret military squads that accompanied the feds we're told also some British Special Forces teams were inserted to kill all of the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened and there of course the evidence before it was destroyed. The FBI and the BATF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City, to World Trade Center bombing after they've done their handiwork This is Clive Doyle's daughter that did not deserve to be burned up in the building and shot as they tried to exit We're here with Clive Doyle one of those surviving Branch Davidians he came down a couple months ago we really appreciate you coming down to share

1:21:17 the information, the knowledge of your run-in with the New World Order and what you'd call Antichrist forces here in Waco Texas. I appreciate you having everybody out here what do you think about a Attorney General coming out here and speaking about what's happening in the police state? Well Ramsey Clark has been a great friend ever since he got onto our civil case and uh, he has spoken just about every year for the last three years. The fact that an attorney general has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did I think is a credit to his personality and his principles

1:22:01 I'd like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kind of things, but that may be down the road. With respect to the use of military weapons these These pieces of equipment were unarmed as I understand it and were contracted. It was like a good rent-a-car. A good rent-a-car? A tank going into the building? I thought it was an interesting development that we had an FBI negotiator, who negotiated during the siege that actually came out... Is he gone? I'm not sure

1:22:43 But he, it was the first time we've had a government agent you know or ex-government agent that was involved with the situation. Did he apologize? He did to me I don't know that he did publicly in so many words What's his name? Ferris Rookstool. Oh, he was one of the guys on the phone wasn't he? FBI negotiated him Where is Ferris I don't see Ferris I'd love to ask him about that That didn't come out in a trial you're some kind of provocateur In fact your one of those FBI agents aren't you? I know personally I don't give a damn You're not going to anything to me These people are murderers

1:23:27 These people are murderers. I'm sick and tired of hearing your lies when you machine gunned a bunch of men, women and children! You got a big problem buddy. You sit over here...I'm not afraid of you guys. I am a law abiding citizen And i'm sick of it! You sit over here and talk about how the children huddled in the corner? How all the ammunition they had is what killed them All the rest is your garbage You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You don't stand up for the Constitution, you stand for zip not a zero! I heard that... You have no column of plumb It's false my friend and let me tell ya A lot of people are writing down your names You can follow people around, you can harass people, you can back-up your bankster buddies But a revolution of peaceful information is coming And when it comes time, you people are going to brought to punishment Do you understand? Just like Nuremberg Just taking orders doesn't cut it my friend Do you understand me?!

1:24:12 I think I've assessed you. Yeah, oh you've assessed me? Listen! You can sit there and say some kind of little joke all your textbook garbage my friend i got people like General Partin ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development we know the federal government destroyed Oklahoma it's proven we know what you guys are engaged in just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag we know you brought Nazis over here through the rat line to set up our CIA after the OSS so So you can't sit here, you can assess me all day. I want you to assess me! I've assessed YOU a smiley face slime ball that sits here in soft pedals and tries to placate the media Waco rules of engagement shows your agents machine gunning men women and children aged...as they tried to exit one of the inventors of flare technology worth hundreds of millions of dollars is on that documentary He is of the establishment Didn't you hear what I said?

1:24:58 Didn't you hear what I said? No. Yeah, but we don't need this type of placating somebody coming in and saying oh i'm so sorry that we did this We don't need that! We need indictments Then you need to go and you need to call for indictment to Janet Reno Are you calling for an indictment of Janet Reno? No. Herman Goring & Dragg Oh, so your not calling for Herman Goring & Dragg What about people who ran the tanks through this place? Over four years ago I was interviewing former and current CIA officials about the Delta Force murdering people in Waco, they were extremely concerned. That's now been borne out in the Dallas Morning News and other publications When are you finally going to come clean about the mass murderer using high-level

1:25:38 Special operations killers to kill Americans for publicity. Very important. Number one about the Delta Force, number two Senator John Danforth your special counsel How can he be independent as you and others have said when he is appointed by you to investigate you? That's the questions thank you The crowd giggled and laughed and Reno refused to answer the question makes you proud to be an American Well here you have it right here We're told that the bunker was here where the children cowered, where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas at Point Blank Range. And then they pushed all of the rubble over there. So the bunker was somewhere over in this area. This is just Mora Big Brother and we just went over to one of the FBI negotiators who's now over here soft pedaling things... I'm not calling for indictments. ...and he's not calling for indictments. Reno! Harriman-Goring & Dragg! Do you know all these slaves are going to get what they ask for? The IRS bending people over all day and all night

1:26:43 It's a real pleasure to stand up to Big Brother and all his slimy cronies. Let's get out of here, I'm pretty sick! You know this better than me... To come attack children? Oh yeah This didn't need to happen it shouldn't have happened but apparently they had an agenda Do you think that there will be more state-sponsored terrorism like Waco? I don't think it's over my Bible tells me that this beast makes war on God's people And overcomes them and kills them up until certain point Now I don't think we've seen the last of it So this is just the beginning It seems that way. That's what my Bible tells me." Their mission is to build a church on the grounds of Mount Carmel. Lisa Hanna has the story. After just a week of planning, dozens of volunteers from across the state gathered at Mount Carmel to build a church

1:27:35 It's a project that was started by Austin radio talk show host Alex Jones. We're going to build this church back, I've talked with the Valued Branch Davidians and they concur with my idea to have it a church and at the same time a memorial and museum for what happened right here on this very ground in 1993 It's called the Phoenix Project, a church that will rise from the ashes of the Branch Davidian compound. I think it is important that we have a place to worship again after our church was destroyed. Volunteers are doing all the work. Volunteer such as Austin contractor Mike Hanson We just think its the right thing to do

1:28:17 Yes, absolutely. Well Clive Doyle has paid the back taxes. Clive Doyle as you see lives here on the property in his mobile home and regardless of what ends up happening with the land I've talked to attorneys and others it's even been on The Waco Tribune that basically once a church is built here it'll just be up for trustees at the church who basically owns the property so its even more let's say affirming whose property this is and it says, this property belongs to the surviving branch Davidians and Clive Doyle has paid the back taxes. But regardless we're building a memorial to what happened here I don't think anybody would ever want to tear it down Hey, thank you sir. Appreciate it. Could you address any legal ramifications or legal advantages that you would have building a church here? Well I've talked to attorneys and read some of the reports, some published reports. Clive Doyle is already positioned he has

1:29:16 a renowned attorney, former Attorney General Ramsey Clark. He's paid the taxes and regardless of who gets this property this place will always be basically a battlefield museum almost people are going to be coming out here probably forever wanting to understand what happened here so basically that is why we're here put a mark on history saying people of Central Texas and America said no, this is wrong what happened here. And we're not going to believe the propaganda or knock it off. We're not gonna believe the lies and hopefully by leading by example that media and others are finally starting to wake up after what happened will also join us in trying to heal some of the wounds. Thank you.

1:30:04 Okay, here it is with a shovel. When I look and saw the people and how they're helping...I didn't think anybody had the guts to do it but I'm finding out and I know there are people outside that agree with us that just afraid to speak up Just in case you don't remember let me jog your memory In a church they called the Waco compound Back in April 93 17 little children All so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flame How many names can you recall?

1:31:16 17 little children Don't it make you wonder? 17 little chi- How could they deserve to die Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Why have become so blind? 17 little children Finally open up your mind

1:32:05 How did you sleep last night Bill Clinton? Tell me, did you feel their pain? The seventeen little children Cried out and perished in the flame Attorney General Janet Rea I accept your offer to resign

1:32:44 How can you stand for when you won't answer to your crimes? Seventeen little children, all so helpless and so small. Seventeen little children... how many names can you recall Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves We become so blind Little seventeen, little children Finally open up your minds I've heard it said the Branch Davidians Only got what they deserved

1:33:59 Yet no one seems to know what love is broken What was in the war they never served Yesterday I sold my TV set Stopped my subscription to The Times To be explained, deceived, though mean Was an accomplice to these crimes 17 little children, don't it make you wonder? 17 little children How could they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have we become so blind

1:35:12 I love Miss Catherine! There she is. We're going to rebuild you a nice beautiful church out here. There she is, Miss Sia how ya doing? Hi! Proud of y'all.

1:35:51 Hello folks, this is Mike Hanson here on Mike Hanson archives on YouTube and here on my Facebook and we're here at the 25th anniversary of The memorial service here in Waco Texas. And we got Clive Doyle here Can you tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are on the 25th anniversary? Here It's It's all right, everybody knows you. It's kind of hard to my daughter just died. My daughter just died there. That's what I heard and we didn't put it out on the Internet because we were asked not to this is first time people out here on my a lot of them don't know yet

1:36:52 That was your first daughter died at Mount Carmel and this was another daughter. This is my oldest daughter, it's my youngest that died in the fire. Karen was coming down had her plane booked she was coming down for the memorial and ended up dying in a head-on collision with a drunk driver People up in Pennsylvania saying that it was deliberate, it wasn't an accident. Tried to run a cop off the road first and I guess the cop avoided it. Tried to run down another woman then she avoided it. Karen was third in line so they say she died instantly which is...

1:37:52 At least she didn't suffer too much. But seems like every year there's a few more to go. Yeah, it's just not many left Clive I'm so sorry for all the stuff that has happened to y'all and hopefully it will get better but you always say its gonna be better It'll get worse before it gets better. Kids playing just like it used to be, huh ma'am? She remembers when her other children... the children she took care of every day. Babies. Yes Ma'am. I bet she does! They've all been somebody who we used to see everyday in the hallways and see their mothers taking care of them When you see this paper with all these different things they talk about how they died. Yes Ma'am And they talk about how they had bottles clutching all melted to them It's a horrible thought. Yes Ma'am

1:39:04 Something that you can't dwell on much at all. No ma'am. Put yourself at a stop sign and say, okay I've gone as far as it can go. You can't think too much more about this. There's old Stewart! Find something to finish with him. Yeah, don't think he had it finished. You got any? No, are you cooking them yet? Yeah, this is Clive Doyle's mother. And us and the people that know these people we call her Grandma Edna. Grandma Edna do you have any opening statements or comments you'd like to make to the viewers of the program tonight?

1:40:08 Well, I'm just hoping that the people of America will wake up to know that they've got a government that's running this country without to destroy those who don't go along with them. And the weapon at Waco is not the last you've seen it. It's going to continue on until God comes down and finishes the work himself So you... I want to just, you oughta comment on that. I would agree with everything she said there that there is a government in place now that is out to destroy anybody who's righteous or... Haven't they proved it? Yeah well that what the scriptures teach That's right There are powers that wanna do away with God's people They wanna persecute make war on them and unfortunately the scripture predicts that they will overcome and kill them for a period of time

1:40:55 until the judgment sits and God intervenes. And then in the end we win, or the righteous people win. It says that the kingdom will be given to the saints In fact I heard you my first introduction to you Edna was on a Day 51 video and I think you were sitting there with either probably Woody Kendrick or one of these people maybe I've got it confused now but Somebody asked somebody, one of the Davidians about do you think Jesus is coming soon? And you said... I was in front of the courthouse after the trial was over in Clough and somebody was saying Do you think David will come back? Yeah. The sooner the better! Well actually.. And I'm still saying that and asking God please hurry up and send David back and put an end to all this terrible violence evil ruling this world and nobody seems inclined to want to stop it That's the pity of it all People are just sitting taking it

1:41:47 Who started the militia in this country? Bill Clinton. Because he sits in a position where he... He brought about a position where people are afraid, so they take up arms for self-defense Why shouldn't they? Who wants somebody bashing in their home and kicking things around And just stand to... No way! My home anyway Grandma, do you have any thoughts about this? We hear rumors about this new world order that... Sure there's a new world order. The devil is going to bring one in which is coming almost into existence now and God has got one which is far better and that's the one I'm waiting for. I don't want anything to do with Satan or the people who let him use them

1:42:32 Hi, Gray. So all I have to say is, death to the New World Order. Long live the Constitution and the Republic and we shall prevail ladies and gentlemen! Death to the New World Order. Long live the Constitution We can, we must, and we will prevail This is just one small symbol against the tyrannical elements of this government that are pushing themselves in the forefront

1:43:14 of the world today, ladies and gentlemen. It's the right thing to do and this is a big deal as we raise this first wall coming up here in just a few minutes so again God bless you! And this is very important what you've done You're all part of history It's good to let the shadier elements of this system understand that demonizing a group of people before you murder them using Army Special Operations forces is not acceptable, at least not here in America. Maybe in Nazi Germany but not here in America! We're Americans and we stand up against this type of tyranny and to raise the American flag over the church after they burned it to the ground. That was another abhorrent action as they appropriated our sacred symbols for their own evil aims, but we're taking those symbols back ladies and gentlemen there are symbols they're America's symbols God bless you all thank you hi folks we're out here in Mount Carmel with David Crenshus brother

1:44:09 Good afternoon sir, how are you? I'm doing just great. That's good uh we at trailer park what do you think about what we're doing out here? i think it's great i think it's positive. It's a positive step yes yeah a lot of us you know they try to claim where uh uh correct supporters or something and when we try to tell them but we just think what happened out there was wrong and we're trying to help right it That's all. What do you think? I agree totally with you, it has been a long time coming Has been a long time coming We're certainly glad to see ya out here! I think this is just the beginning Yes sir Yeah I do too I'm afraid Thank you sir They had snipers in our dairy barn up at the back of this property from 730 in the morning They were out here two hours before the truck or ATF drove into the gate

1:44:58 We also had three helicopters involved in the initial raid. And I guess their purpose outside of shooting up our water supply and David's room, some of the... You're saying they helped them fire it? Now from different stories basically we get the idea that who fired first, the PATF or the helicopters? Well depends where you were in the building people at the back that's the first thing they heard was the helicopters. Some of us up front we heard it at the front door According to what some of the ATF said, of course I don't always trust their testimony but the ones that got out of the first truck up here when they testified in court they said they heard it initially at the front door. They assumed it was there guys taking care of the dogs

1:45:43 So the BATF has claimed on the record that they fired first, but just to take out these dangerous dogs. Well they didn't say first but thats where they heard it first and thats what they said they assumed because... Oh! They assumed? That's what it was. That is was their guys taking out the dogs can you tell us about this vicious dog had to be executed a female malamute, a husky. She was chained to our flagpole which is about right where that post is she was chained to the fence and led up to the front door. She had three or four pups who were not quite a year old, about eight or nine months old then she had another litter in her kennel

1:46:23 And of course she's barking because they're shooting her pups. Oh, they were shooting the puppies? The older pups yeah. That's loving! They said that they was frantic because they bit their teeth here So they shoot the mother because she got upset. I thought she was chained though She was changed to the flagpole and they were all in a pen that couldn't get out I'm just sleeping over that easier club knowing these right-wing animals are taken out as soon as possible. Oh, yeah far children say Well Clive first raid That day, all the horrific behavior happens. So Delta Force was basically back there from the information we had on the APCs on the final night people were trying to exit through the gymnasium area. Over here where this concrete slab is part of where the gymnasium was what they were doing coming up between the gymnasium and the swimming pool that's where they're shooting from over in that driveway. Anybody coming out the back

1:47:25 So basically anybody and they had Sierra one was over there, correct? Okay. What's the era to Sierra three? I'm not real sure but they had snipers in that flat So they had a burn created Well, we got a lot of people working hard I'm gonna miss them huge allergy attack today my brains not working too well We want to thank all over talking to us. He's one of the hardest workers out there getting this job done and

1:48:12 To reiterate David's words on one of the negotiation tapes, he was very sad that there were agents that were killed. He was sad there are agents that were wounded and I feel the same way but if we can honestly look at stories that are told, we have to admit that the government story is not all truth there is it's a one-sided view they may be many of them many agents who were there

1:48:54 their side of the story that they firmly believe in. And there are survivors who have their side We have every reason to be angry, like yourself you lost friends somewhere in between is a balance of truth not just our side and not just your side depending on where you were what you saw what you heard what you experienced is where your prejudices are we hold no malice towards the ATF

1:49:50 Or the FBI, but we find it very hard to believe them and trust them. Because if they were so right in their stand that they took and in the way that performed their tasks They would not need the lies and covering up And losing of evidence and delaying in courts They would be more than happy To have truth come out May not be your fault that doors missing May not be your fault there was shots fired from helicopters

1:50:40 But I think, in all honesty as a human being you've been long enough in the Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco and Firearms to have seen a lot of things that were wrong. Nobody climbs any corporate ladder without sacrificing principles. I don't care whether it's a business or government agency or law enforcement or even in church We see all kinds of things go on that are wrong. And there are those who turn their back on what is wrong in order to succeed, in order to get the benefits every time and see this kids put through school or whatever their excuses and their reasons are. The ATF is not without fault, the FBI has not without fault, and I am not without fault. David's great concern

1:51:51 was for the safety of not only the people inside the building but those on the outside of the building on February 28th. It did not have to happen that way, and truth of the matter is very plain David could've been approached prior to February 28th he could have been approached on February 28 in a peaceable manner and all this could've been avoided You may feel justified in firing because you were trying to protect your officers. The people on the inside that did fire probably feel justified in responding to protect the women and children, and perhaps their own lives. Volatile situation I'm sure there was fear and panic and all kinds of feelings on both sides on February 28th if we were a bunch of crazies that just wanted you all dead, you'd have been all dead

1:53:08 There was no ambush, 50 or 60 people standing at all the windows with machine guns and bazookas ready to blow you away. Or you would not have any ATF agents walk away after two and a half hours even if you still had some ammunition that was not our intent it's not our intent that there should be any shooting And we were made to pay for defending ourselves for 51 days by another agency, which I understand you're going to absolve yourself from being the FBI who also justify everything they did. The torture and the lying because they feel we brought it on ourselves We refuse to come out like he said those reports show wrongdoing in the ATF They showed wrongdoing in the FBI. I don't believe myself that a court case In front of a jury

1:54:32 where all the evidence could be brought out would be a terrible thing. We've asked for that and the government, be it the BATF or FBI are stalling for all they're worth because they don't want to go to trial as in the case of Lon Horiyuchi who feels he is justified in being protected by his position in the agency for shooting Vicky Weaver He doesn't feel he should go on trial

1:55:15 should be exempt. Maybe you feel the same way for some of the officers involved in Waco, but if the truth is ever going to come out then it needs to be allowed to come out and all the evidence needs to put out on a table for not just the jury and courts to look at but for whole American people we cannot just tell our side and you cannot tell just your side and come to the truth because were both biased I hope

1:56:04 within the months and years, whatever remain for us all to go through that somehow there can be some kind of reconciling. Some kind of acknowledgement and above all I believe what would have pleased David the most would be that those who were party to the raid into the siege that followed could somehow ultimately learn the truth that David tried put across

1:56:46 a part in his kingdom. That was all he was interested in, the saving of souls regardless of what you may think of him, his lifestyle or teachings or what took place for 51 days David was very concerned for souls and that's what we're about and we would love to see y'all saved I don't want revenge I do not want any more people killed on either side But unless we're willing to be honest with one another and face up to the things that we as a government perpetrate, and do, and take a stand about whether it's right or wrong based on the facts not on our loyalty to our agency or whatever then we will have other WACOs. We will have other situations where people will feel justified in resisting abuse of power or violent entry on some pretext

1:58:05 Let me just say in closing that I am sorry this ever happened. Could we begin some of that reconciliation by having you shake hands? It's not easy to stand in front of a jury of your peers, which we are right now sir. We are judging you and we are judging the group for whom you work with when you were

1:58:48 I heard you say early on that in your opinion the people at Waco got what they deserved. Did you say that? I could have, yes. for all this? You want to comment on that. If I said they got what they deserve, what i meant was they caused it themselves. Did y'all say that? They brought it on themselves. I didn't say that. Reno did! Maybe it was Reno who said but whether they brought it on themselves or not you have children that were killed by their very own government and thats you

1:59:32 And I am absolutely, I have not been this upset for years because I want to know what does it feel to work for one of the most hated groups in this country other than the IRS? How are you doing? Oh, when stars and spiders fly down It means that we As foreign powers take control Right behind our backs Traitors plan their attacks The law and commandments of our Lord If we wake up today We might still find a way

2:00:41 To shake free from these chains and restore their teeth. So wake up America, and slow down this tyranny of the rightist plan! Just in case you don't remember Let me jog your memory In a church they called the Waco compound Back in April 93' 17 little children

2:01:49 All so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flames How many names can you recall? Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder 17 little children How could they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Okay, we're right here at the front door of the new rebuilt church memorial for the surviving Branch Davidians in memory of all those that were

2:03:04 that were murdered here. Next to me right here is another memory, George Pulliam was the engineer and architect that drew all the plans and engineering schemes and everything for here and passed away of cancer in 2005 a man I knew well, man of character class and integrity left a widow two daughters And then a whole bunch of us volunteers also went to help out his widow. Put a roof on her house and paint the house, and try to help her out. George Pulliam passed away February 5th 2005. Here's the church! Well let me just ask you some questions... First I want to thank everybody Is that what you want? Yeah basically because you haven't seen anybody since the uh.. No i haven't

2:04:14 You want me to give my name and stuff? Yeah, yeah. Who you are... People know who you are though. I know it. I edit real good. Go ahead. I'm Catherine Madison and I especially want to thank everyone who contributed to the building out on Mont Carmel. I haven't gotten to send everyone a thank-you note The rate that I am going may never but I do thank you! And I am very appreciative of what you've all done I know that it never would have even started with all you people that came in and took over and made it work. This is what I live for! We have the Constitution, and to the New World Order we shall, we must, and will prevail because were willing to stand up against what's happening God bless the Republic of the United States! Thank you!

2:05:38 Yes, thank you very much folks. Everybody sends Clive flowers and cards what we're doing is very sending flowers but here's what we're doing we put some pictures together for him show them which have done so far I like that one as the whole gang there that's Clive and Catherine

2:06:18 Wyla, that's Grandma Edna. That's me. That's Jeff Davis There's Clive when he was on TV I think that's one of the first times he was on TV here in Austin when you got out of jail right there Think that was 94-95. I can't remember. There's Clive and there's Tommy Okay what else we got? David Thibodeau okay, there's Clive when he's preaching and that was about 1995 There's Clive, and there's David Koresh. And David Thibodeau and okay what else we got? There's Grandma Edna there I love this picture here put that in a brand there's Ron All right well we're gonna be sending this as a package Well don't break it before we get there Alright everybody send Clive something I know he would appreciate it