Topic: Flashbang Grenades

The FBI used flashbang grenades to prevent Branch Davidians from collecting rainwater in the courtyard starting April 7, 1993. On Good Friday, April 9, Steve Schneider received permission to light incense canisters, but the FBI simultaneously decided they would not fight any fires that might develop. That same evening, Schneider was targeted with a flashbang grenade while attempting to speak with agents near a tank.

The discussion reviews the status of various individuals associated with Mount Carmel, including those who left during the 51-day standoff and those arrested while trying to enter the property. Doyle describes how David Koresh and Steve Schneider negotiated the release of 30 people, mostly children, early in the siege. He contrasts this with the increasing hostility of the tactical teams who used barbed wire and flashbang grenades to intimidate those remaining inside.

The discussion turns to the technical and legal nature of flashbang or stun grenades used during the siege. Host Mike Hanson and the guests reference court testimony where ATF officers admitted these devices are classified as "destructive devices" under federal law. They argue that despite being characterized as benign by some officials, these devices possess significant concussive force and can be lethal.

Survivors admit to an initial naivety, believing they would simply sit on the lawn while agents searched the building and then return inside. However, as the siege progressed, any resident who stepped outside was met with aggression. Steve Schneider, David Jones, and Pablo Cohen were reportedly targeted with flashbang grenades during agreed-upon rendezvous or while performing maintenance tasks like digging waste pits.

Ophelia Santoyo, who lost six family members including her daughter Julie Martinez and five grandchildren, explains that they were too afraid to exit the building during the siege. She cites the destruction of their cars, motorcycles, and children's toys by tanks as the reason for their terror. Santoyo also mentions reports of tactical teams throwing flashbang grenades at people who attempted to communicate with lawyers or the government.