30 Years Toward Glory [XR8JuOGTdIg]

00:05 History is going to speak for itself. History is history People will find out the truth if it takes another hundred years The truth will come out And anyone that has done the kind of research I have, any of the professionals who've written books know at this point what really happened in the back of that building When rules and engagement was being put together I had a chance to go on and see a very good quality of the infrared video from the plane flying above Mount Carmel And you see a couple of flashes, flashbangs. But more importantly you see two shooters either side of the tank shooting into that building and for years I wondered why did the autopsy report show 15 other members had bullet wounds to the center of their head in the center of their chest? Not conducive with suicide it's more like a homicide It was more like being shot There was a mystery to me because i didn't even want to believe that my government would shoot people trying to exit that building when all they said that they wanted to do is save people and help people

01:04 And then I saw the infrared. Two tanks, two shooters next to each tank...I think they counted something like 98 different fully automatic weapons fire going into the building over the course of those last few minutes. 98 gunshots! How can you save women and children if you're being shot as your trying to exit the back of a building folks? How does that work?! So again it's the ultimate slap in the face for them to say that is was suicide when we know there were shooters out there I would like, just to say publicly any of the people involved in that firefight. I would like to talk to you and give me a call and tell what really happened without judgment or anything. I want someone to confront me and tell why they were there and why they shot people trying to enter that building What is their justification?

03:45 fantastic thank you so much backwards I want to thank Sheila Martin for words I'm going to be able to do that. throughout the process of rebuilding the church. Just some of them, they're out on two boards out here a little bit later after this dedication you can go out and look at them and it's just small piece of different levels of construction that we went through and it was just wonderful It's just so sad that he and others have been demonized We're hoping to reverse some of that because if they can surround their group with people murdering

04:47 And then the general population says, well they got what was coming to them and they never met him or never had any idea of what really happened. Then it can happen to any of us and I say never again no more Waco's in America. Never! The worst small ghetto in the world with the Nazis, black uniforms, helmets Believe me next time a Waco cranks up if i can get there we're not going to be building churches. No you ain't goin'.

05:28 Alright, I'm gonna go ahead and uh... See, I'm flailing here. I get so angry. Mopping off the media is in a microphone. Maybe that's good. We know they're going to cut it out. No, that's all right. Some of you are good. It's got network news services with CBS. Yes! ABC and Fox all at the CBS broadcast center doing all the work together working. Don't hear a lot about that here on our controlled society but we're coming forward with new media just like the printing press and the renaissance and we are going to win! Victory is ours!

06:09 Black gold, God bless you sir. We really appreciate it. Federal History Church You're a wonderful man and God bless you sir and here are the keys. I was just handed a letter that Ophelia Santoya had written She wanted me to read it to you And it goes along with what all survivors have to say

07:02 to all those that have given them their time and money in the building of this church. She says, To all whom it may concern I would just like to take a minute to thank you for building our beautiful church and for allowing God to use you all in this work I also want to apologize for acting foolishly sometimes and telling everybody that I love them, but I really mean it in God's way. I've concentrated my life to Christ since I was in my 30s and so far I think I have been faithful not because I'm strong enough but because He is my strength And I don't think I can do anything without Him. He is my husband and my all.

07:54 I'm grateful for your effort and sacrifice, and I appreciate it very much. And especially from the bottom of my heart, I would like to thank Alex and Mike for being chief organizers of the work George for beating out Jack of all trades Scott for watching and keeping the place nice and watching over Indio the dog Paul for being some time and trying to help me solve several problems and for providing the right that I needed one. Thank you all from bottom of my heart, God bless, a billion. One thing that Mike and Judy neglected to put into their figures when it came to the amount of money has gone in this church they were just talking about supplies They did not figure in thousands of hours

09:01 donated by the various people that came and helped from weekend to weekend. And I appreciate everything that each one's done, each one has done for the efforts of the 15th Tribune. Glory be to God. Amen. Even now I still remember what Andrew Billingsdale used And as pain inside me goes on Even now I have come so far I wonder where you are I wonder what is still so hard without you Even now when I come shining through

10:14 I wish you knew somehow even now. Even now, even now, even now.

11:13 She lost four of her children and her husband. And that effort was dedicated to those she lost, Sheila God bless you You still have family and friends We're trying to rectify something that happened I love Mike Hanson Archives Get ready to run Well you said it was painful to watch them destroying all your things Yes because they were running the tanks over our cars It was psychological warfare Yeah

11:54 and everything, the toys you know the kids toys yeah it was to make you think that you had no power at all right what did they do? They mooned us. Sick high school football game type of stuff that they did there totally immature There's always new Federal lies that we are forced to counter here. Texas talk radio personality Alex Jones has been crying murder and cover-up from day one of the Waco horror These are thugs who wanted to engage in terrorism against the American people And I say their terrorism has failed and this horrendous lie is starting to unravel The surviving Davidians say the same thing That's what they do for a job, as if...they lie When I tell what I tell, I'm telling the truth

12:51 And if people accept it, fine. We just believe that God would not let the truth be hidden." And Waco keeps burning. the biblical concept of the Bible. I think he truly preached whatever the Bible teaches, but this is just an example of what's going to happen to us Christians We are gonna be looked at as a sect of demonic beings or whatever because we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and i think that that's why the Lord says Be prepared to suffer because I think were gonna suffer A lot of the same thing that David Koresh and people who lived there at camp because

13:40 profess to be Christians and believe in Jesus Christ. So it's just something that they're going to show the people, that if you do profess to be a Christian and you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, this is just an example of what's gonna happen those people who profess to be Christians." And that was just a comment I wanted to make. Well there...there IS a one world order coming into being! When they have the one world order fully, there is going to be a religion that everyone will be expected to go along with and I'm sure it will not be biblical because they hate the...they go after the people that are studying the Bible.

14:55 Look, I know you came out and said that they did it all wrong. That's how it was planned with the helicopters to shoot first to create the crisis so all of you guys would open fire while your down the road crying Now thats how this works We're building prisons everywhere across this country we're going into a Nazi Germany type state And you better not get fired up and angry It's time to stop whitewashing all this and waffling back and forth. You've got to go all the way, and expose what has been happening because you know it is gearing up massively right now And my family has been threatened the whole nine yards just for this That is why people who have never stood up or really done something in their lives can't understand how real and hardcore this world is and whats happening

15:31 And now Reno's the head of domestic preparedness. They just fired Cohen, the Secretary of Defense from the job last week He's a puppet over the military now and Reno runs our military? None of these people are going to talk about that She passed her test This is a huge psychological warfare program A huge experiment for you The military The police The American people The media You're all being strung along and now is the time for people to start rebelling against it That's why I get so angry. I realize you're not as bad as the other ones and i know who you are The point is, You gotta come all the way out We- They read the names of the BATF that died in there I'd say this memorials for them too but it doesn't matter Well we were still misguided stormtroopers Unconstitutional Alex on the 22nd hour of tape

16:15 The Waco Police Department, there was five agents killed. Who was the fifth agent? There were five agents killed on 28 February 1993. Who is the fifth agent? Pardon? Five agents. No no no I'm saying that on the 22nd hour of tape Alex has a tape with him right now You can queue it up and play it. The point is, I know you don't know...I'm asking ya! Why do you not know? Hey, do you admit all the films, all the TV shows don't show the helicopters? Were there helicopters flying above that day that were sent from Fort Hood? I will say this to you-the helicopters did not shoot first. But there were helicopters! No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

17:05 Who did shoot first? You said that. But you said... Oh, they did shoot first! We know that! They did shoot! What about the women getting shot in the head?! There were people on helicopters who did shoot! They didn't have guns!? No, they didn't have guns in the helicopters! Oh now they don't have guns in the helicopters! I got audio saying there were bullet holes in the roof And the fact is there were gunshots from the helicopters and killed people! What about Juan Horiyuchi? We know he shoots women when they've got babies in their arms Are you glad the church was built? Memorial Church. Are you for the memorial church? Okay, that's just a question I'm not a Davidian sir but i don't want to live in a police state and I'm standing against it and this is peaceful people are gearing up to defend their homes they've seen what you guys are up to

18:00 Well, you tell Congress that they almost destroyed a really good agency It is a good agency. Do you believe it? A good agency... Okay Let's review what happened to Vicki Weaver Now, Vicky Weaver was not shot by an ATF agent. Lawn or UTI? I cannot comment on that because... Right but the point is we got dead Americans because of the ATF agents Why did you guys shoot the dogs under testimony? The BATF admitted they shot the dogs first. The Malamutes why were the Husky dogs shot Why were the dogs shot? You weren't really here when that happened. Yeah, but I'm asking you've been around it why they shoot the dogs and they were out of Sarban and Chanel. Hold on did they shoot dogs under testimony after somebody else? Oh but she know they shot the dog. Let's ask him what he knows about ambush at Waco in the line of duty didn't show up.

18:59 Who called and warned him? Wait a minute. Last night there was a guy on channel 11 in Dallas, CBS that there's now an entire deputy that allegedly has been accused of tipping off the Davidis. But you're saying you went in the building and told them they were coming? No I said we saw them. Why were you crying out to the side of the road? They weren't even there that day! Out there on their own? We got video of you crying Could you tell us the conversation? They were gonna murder. I love public, whatever the newspapers have said about what was going on and.

19:48 You don't think they should have done it, right? No. Of course not. I mean... It wasn't the right thing to do at that time. Of course, I knew how everything was and Of course I was disturbed about it. When you were in Mount Carmel that morning, did it appear that everybody was gearing up for battle when you were there that morning? When I left everything was possible once I left this compound anything was possible Well they weren't scurrying around inside get ready! Get ready they're coming

20:37 Not when I was here, no. Okay and so between that time and what time was that? About nine... I'm not gonna answer any more questions like i said I already said too much anyway I just came here to thank you for coming. I appreciate it. Are you going to be able to talk with your parents or anybody or argue with anybody? I know y'all have your own beliefs everybody has their own beliefs and that's right. What's your first name? He's Robert. I'm not against you, Robert. I don't mind John Hamilton but when you say you all... You put him and I've been in the same place. You're against us? Anybody besides me. Well America's has their own beliefs that what i am saying. We believe our own way and have no politics That to me is everybody's given by it Right And I don't judge anybody by that I know I'm assuming its your right to be here and you have a right to your opinion Why did they put this under the windows To keep people from coming out

21:35 Right here we have a question behind you. He came by himself so he didn't come in and get the mark. To keep the children and people from coming out? He said he had memories, he had memories. A lot of things happened to me. A lot of things have changed my life, changed everything that I seek for or the world was and just started because it's what will be with me for the rest of my life. Do you feel most at ease with ATF agents? No. Here is a Davidian one star team.

22:17 I don't want to come up with anything here in front of everybody. Everybody has their own opinion on it, and that's the way we are. What is your personal last name? Robert Rodriguez, I met you at the trial when you came outside and were crying. And I understand that you were very upset and appreciate that you tried to stop what was going on by alerting them to let them know they already knew but why was this put up under the windows... I have no idea of what it is. The agents said... I have no idea if that's it.

23:00 Thank you. I wish we could have met on the better circumstances. It's Alex Jones, A-L-E-X J-O-N-E-S Why did... why do you want to get involved in this? Well i don't have much faith in Judge Walter Smith In the wrongful death suit And I just figured that a statement needed to be sent, that the American people do not buy the propaganda that was pumped out by the federal government who held media back over two miles away. It was just time for somebody to do something more and more evidence was coming out of what really happened here and I saw the continued denials by Janet Reno in the Justice Department and the FBI and said it's time for America to stand up we know what happened here was wrong We sat back allowed it happen then

23:56 It's just the right thing to do. I mean, it's just that simple you can't allow a group of Americans to first be demonized and then murdered and then even after they're dead the demonization continues And all of the innocent branch Davidians that are languishing in prison right now after they were found not guilty Of the major charges by the jury It's mainly to focus attention on what happened here and put it in the real light that the American people do not buy the government line on this. We want some real answers, we want the government to rectify what they've done here, some reparations for the Branch Davidians but again I don't expect any reparations from the Branch Davidians. I don't expect that they'll get satisfaction in this civil suit, the wrongful death suit So the people of Central Texas and America had to stand up and say this is wrong.

24:42 We're building a memorial church for all those that died. There's no reason to have this type of activity going on here in America, this is something I would expect to see in Russia or China or Nazi Germany not the USA How does it make you feel to see this now? Going up nearing completion I knew we could do it. I know there's a great volunteer spirit in America, Americans are good people black people white people it doesn't matter we all need to come together for better country and have real communities that are based on understanding and tolerance And I think the government has shown their incredible intolerance here when they're the ones that are constantly trying to preach tolerance I see them doing exact opposite Thank you

25:33 What Mike Hanson he's the volunteer coordinator, I think we're good Well thank you sir tell me what you think about the new church. I think it's beautiful I'm so excited about it. I can't wait until I sit there in it no to have a worshiping there Tell me what we're doing over here. We just cleaning up for the memorial April 19th

26:14 Tell me what you think about Mount Carmel. What kind of place it is and how you like it? The Mount Carmel. What's your feelings about Mount Carmel? I don't know what to say... Well, wha-what do you think about Mount Carmel? My voice won't be on here so just...Mount Carmel! What do you think about Mount Carmel? Is it a special place? Mount Carmel is uh..a special place for ME That's where I lost my only daughter and

26:58 and his kids, I mean her kids. I lost six persons and they were my closest family." To the establishment we have this to say to you... There are problems in our country, yes we live in troubled times. There are far too many criminals and far too many crimes I'm locking every window and I'm bolting every door The tool I use is self-defense will even up the score You can rant you can rave you can make your demands And you can take my gun from my cold dead hands

28:05 There are global corporations, they have billions that they pay To the greedy politicians who make sure things go their way They tax us into poverty and we live from day to day To them were useless eaters We don't get to have a say You wanna crash this constitution Is that what's in your plan? You can take my gun from my cold dead ass In every case through history, when genocide was planned The firearms were gathered up and the opposition banned The tyrants made distractions and the people looked away And by the time they realized that they couldn't get away

28:43 We're coming out here to help keep the memory alive of the butchery, the murder Because Bill Clinton was insecure and wanted to flex his muscles, the BATF wanted more funding. They wanted to raise the American people's consciousness about cults and out-of-control organizations of this nature so they surrounded the place opened fire with helicopters

29:34 and then 51 days later set it on fire, sent hit teams inside and murdered the people. Those that tried to escape were machine gunned from outside only a couple of people got out alive because they came out the front where they had cameras. This is Steve Lane with The Freedom Report we're here at what used to be Mount Carmel, I guess it still is Mount Carmel but where the facilities used to be here in Waco and we're standing here with Catherine Madison who's going to give us a tour of the site. This is all new to me I've never been here before never studied the site in any detail and I'm looking forward to Miss Catherine showing us around Well this road goes on a curve and ahead of us is the curve and the house has started

30:23 Right where that second telephone pole is. And extended down the road, there were about 15 houses here at one time. To your left down here you're going to see all the trees that were planted for the people who died in the fire and each one has a marker on it telling uh... the name of one of the people. Is this an actual gravesite or just a memorial? No its just a memorial they are buried in other places To your right down in front of us, way down there. That is the bus that we had originally We used to all be able to get in there and go where we wanted to go as a group It looks like it's been burned I don't know when it was burned. It was perfectly alright when we left And there has been all kinds across

31:19 different tanks when it's to the front of it. When you look at, you'll see that the...that has been caved in But the rest of it was in good shape. And you actually were in the house during the initial attack, is that correct? Oh yes I was there. How long were you there? I was there until the attack was over See they called a troop so that they could have pick up their men That had been hurt and take their others You're speaking about ATF When it came time for us to pick up our people They wouldn't allow us to do it We have a couple of Kansas City's finest members of the SWAT team. This one here is quite, quite a specimen I tell you In all my years involved with SWAT I've never seen a gentleman like this that I learned so much from in just the short time I've been around him It is just awesome it's about the only word to describe him

32:12 Home to a fine edge, home to kill. That's right he just rambled out here himself Why April 19th? Why was April 19 so significant that the FBI felt compelled To take the actions they took There has never been an answer for that Jeff Jamar in the congressional hearings stated categorically The reason why April 19 was picked is because of good weather If you're putting gas into a building, having a high-velocity wind operative that can dissipate the gas doesn't mean that the weather was good. It means it was bad." So what did he mean by the weather being good? Was it good for a fire? Yeah. It was very conducive for an arson fire, but it wasn't very good for inserting gas that day So what did Jeff Tamar mean no one asked him that question who were the people at the back of the building shooting at the branch Davidians on April 19th What was involved with the explosion on the top of the bunker and

33:06 during the course of the fire, how was the evidence handled or mishandled in the following investigation? Questions like that. So we get to deal with those issues. I think what went on here and the fact that it wasn't documented by the media the way it should have been probably has something to do with why you have a TV show and radio show You're not exactly mainline but on the other hand the birth of that type of communications is a good thing because it gives the mainline media something to think about next time they want to kowtow to people in justice department for fear losing news sources.

33:52 Do I think that the... Why, do I have any idea why the media isn't doing their job? I don't know. You'll have to go ask them That's what you ought to be doing right now is asking these guys why they haven't done their job relatives of that Well there just airin' boys! They're just out getting footage it gets cut up back home Yeah and watch what you have to do is go and find the editors I've done it And put them on camera and asked him why is it you haven't run these stories Yes sir thanks alot I'm serious Have you seen Waco rules of engagement? You have so you have seen the inventor, the man that holds three of the patents. Three of the four patents on flare technology telling you that those are sniper points firing automatic weapons. What do you think about that?

34:35 I thought it was fascinating. I thought it was a different perspective than I had heard before, and I don't know that I will base any definite opinion on it but I thought it was interesting. It taught me something I didn't know before Are you aware that our Secretary of Defense William Cohen just created 10 regional teams to work with local law enforcement? That is absolutely unconstitutional and they're doing anti-terrorism training all around the country. Are you aware that General Benton Parton, ex head of Air Force Weapons Development says Oklahoma City was done with pinpoint strikes inside the building? No I wasn't aware about that Exactly what news service are you with? Channel Ten here in town Here in Waco

35:15 If you want, I will send y'all footage from CNN the day of the bombing where they were removing unexploded bombs from the girders inside Oklahoma. Uh...I've worked on the McVeigh trial out in Denver and pretty much know as much as I can Well thanks a lot appreciate it. I have to stick now let's go Mike come on like this. There's been documented evidence as far as FBI snipers firing on people running out of the back of the church there at Waco, that was documented from a FLIR tape which stands for Forward Looking Infrared Radar by the gentleman who invented FLIR technology

35:57 He reviewed that tape and said those were FBI snipers firing at many of the people trying to escape from the burning church there in Waco. We have seen no mainstream news reports on that, it was in a documentary put out that actually got nominated for an Academy Award Have you ever spoken in the newsroom about things like that or talked about reporting anything like that? Sorry, I can't answer any questions. If you heard about stuff like that do you think you might be interested in possibly looking into doing stories on things like that? I'd suggest you call my news room Okay what's his name so I could talk to him? Waco there is footage from the government that has released on Waco rules of engagement and in the Davidians trial at San Antonio with feds shooting men Alright here we are

36:41 Here we are knocking on the controlled media window. It's only a quarter till six. We have some questions for the media! Use your bullhorn We have some questions about the mainstream media and about Chiafas and the huge war that's going on down there. We have some questions about Waco, and Waco rules of engagement Why haven't you talked about it media? we have some serious questions There is footage of the feds shooting people with their own cameras! There is footage of this...we need to answer these questions It's not a joke This isn't a publicity stunt We need answers We need answers. There's a huge war in southern Mexico. You there's a huge war in southern, Mexico Sir there's a huge Sir there's a huge war in southern Mexico don't you care it's been going on for three years? Don't you care is it funny Hey we're leaving We're leaving you can call them we're going out here

37:40 Oh look, he smugly sits there and makes a face. It's not funny at all slave master! That is what we get for asking KI questions For asking KI why they won't report on what is happening in southern Mexico Why they won't report on the film of the murders at Waco They refuse to report on the facts Where is the free press in this country? We demand answers now dividing black against white, white against black woman against man child against parents. Why do you allow this? Why do you allow yourselves to be manipulated and controlled it is very saddening and it is wrong but its something that we as Americans have got to stand up too

38:29 All we asked KI to do was report the facts. We refuse to be part of your lies, we refuse to submit to your lies and we're gonna continue to stand up! We don't care about the fear, we don't care about the IRS and FinCEN and the Delta Force and all the SWAT teams coming under federal control because today Austin told the Delta Force that they weren't welcome in this city San Antonio threw him out three weeks ago. Texas has stood up! Texas has spoken and saying we were a bunch of idiots. You aren't concerned with Waco rules of engagement which conclusively shows the feds shooting men, women and children The massive war that's going on in southern Mexico The scorched earth policy that is now documented! Your not concerned with the Delta Force being thrown out of town And the IRS raping innocent citizens or you put on some kind of whitewash We know media...we know! We don't want to hear bank intakes and all that

39:29 Yeah, we don't want to hear about baking cakes or how to plant tomatoes... ...or how to mow your lawn. Or how to tattle on your neighbor with water waster hotlines! We don't want to hear about how we can thumb scan the buy and sell... ...and retina scan and be good little slaves. We don't want to hear you're government lying cowards! We know that you are not even part of this system You are just little cowards The pretty faces in their minds that paint the picture that the establishment wants We are not going to stop exposing you. Stop telling us about baking cakes! Well, my name is Annetta Richards and I am a survivor of the Waco atrocity. Well one thing i know is that God is the judge of everything he sees all the things and if there are to be any indictments it'll be as God would choose them we have nothing against people were saddened by all that happened

40:25 Hate the fact that they went through such a torture. Feelings all through that morning, wonder what's going to happen to CS Gas These things become very apparent to us on April 19th. During the year we try not to cry so much or remember smiles, but on the day of the 19th you remember that fire so much more and we can feel that pain so much greater. We feel they must have ran through way they said so many people were in so many different places all clumped together. It was a horrible, horrible feeling They didn't know how to deal with it and all we know is they were in a lot of pain. Our pain is nothing compared to what they went through.

41:08 The only time that I have to really get together with the survivors and talk about things, because you know I live far away and everyone's kind of scattered. So really it's kind of like a family reunion at the same time being memorial when you come out here and see the destruction And just kinda remember everything that happened With the infrared, with the explosion and people...the flashes we have on infrared absolutely prove beyond a shadow of doubt that people were killed Law of averages would state that if there's nine survivors, and I'm one of the nine. The people who survived came out to the side in front of the building. Majority of people were at back of the building in cafeteria area. Law of averages would state that you know if 9 people survive from a fire then... People are gonna come out on the back with majority of the people are. The fact no one survived they came out of the back always escape me. I can never understand why? I had enough theory but I can't prove it

42:00 This inferred video proves that beyond a shadow of doubt the people were killed and now it's time to get the people That are in jail out of jail, and it's time to get these shooters. Let's get their names Let's find out who they were who they were working for who was responsible and get these people put away You know we want a constitutional government We're not radicals in the sense that we want a revolution no we just want our government back there is a massive consolidation of local police departments under federal control, the Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force and the JTF 6 which is based at Fort Bliss Texas. They wear black ski masks they train in military tactics and they are the big gun in a long arm of the IRS and criminal system that's running this nation make no mistake the murders of these people and these children was about one thing and one thing only

42:51 It was about terrorism against the American people. It was about testing and pushing the limits to see if the government could surround a group, if they could kill those people and burn it to the ground. Waco rules of engagement shows the automatic weapons fire as men and women tried to exit the back of the building that's where most bodies were found right in the edge. Hit squads military black ops are same ones that destroyed Oklahoma City just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933 I mean, where is our country when ex-attorney generals of the United States of America are here telling you that Reno and the rest of them and the Republicans and Democrats are all the same people? ...which show that we carry over our militarism right into our churches to assault church people. Well yes sir my first question is or my first statement about this is...is your absolutely right! We have military training, people in black ski masks

43:51 with the MJTF, multi-jurisdictional task forces training directly with our local law enforcement in Austin Texas where I'm from and i found out that this is a nationwide movement. Sure it isn't and the sad part is you know the cop is supposed to be our friend on the beat he's one takes gets the cat out of the tree and takes care of the lost kids and stop someone from burglarizing a home and stuff like that Instead, they love to be SWAT team. It's the thin blue line there teaching them in fact I've heard police... Pretty thick blue line right now. I've done interviews at protests and things and the police walk up and say stay behind the demarcation line uh you'll hear him talking watch the civilians They're using military terminology is this dangerous? Of course it's dangerous The paramilitary concept of police is a police state You know And our constitution was created to prevent us from being a police state But

44:43 The thing that I don't think the American public realizes is that this military training is going on. What are some things we can do to get this reversed, hopefully? Well, I think we have to resist at every level. If you don't work at the national level, then you can't expect the local level... After all, we're providing a lot of federal funds for the local level and they love it. And that brings control? It brings control, it brings technology, it brings things they don't need, ya know? Infrared Who needed tanks out here? Yeah, everything that billions and billions of dollars in research and development provide the military are now being... It's going into civilian control Have YOU seen Waco Rules Of Engagement?

45:21 Sure. It's horrifying, isn't it? It's horrifying. The whole story is even more horrifying Sir I didn't actually see this last year but i heard about it reported and some of the alternative press Is it true that last year you spoke about how the Trilateral Commission was running the country Well, I've criticized the Trilateral Commission for many years but i don't really think the Trilateral Commission is running the country. CFR? I think that same people are... The control it! The same people who run the CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral... Those aren't front groups Sure, I mean they're just meeting their organizations through which they implement their power and it's an international group that maintains power through the multinational corporations in the media and all the rest Yes sir. And wouldn't you say that now what you have is is corporate socialism for them and slavery for us? Well, you've got You've got corporate wealth for them They don't... It's called stealing

46:21 It could be called stealing, although it's stealing on such a grand scale that you'd have to call it grand larceny I think. Katherine survived Yeah, I'm a survivor. Put your other earphone back on. No, I can hear by myself. She survived the... what is it we're called? You've named it now the Holocaust? Yes, I would say that because there's very much... It was something that we did not expect We did not know See everyone expected to come out after a few days and twice they expected to come out

46:58 But if somebody went out the door, we'd tell them they did not want him outside. And then they put the Constantine wire around one of the windows and all that... Yes and we need...and Constantine wire is that you might call it razor wire. Razor sharp! You know I never knew what Constantine wire was until I went down to Mount Carmel and saw it for myself. And I could not believe anybody could ever get out with that around. Well if they use it at the top of prisons and correctional facilities because it's raw, and I know what is it you're gonna like when I tell you this but my husband brought some home for me look at him as an architect in order to do a prison. You have well you have to pick out you say I want Constantin Tannewire 321 in the puce color or whatever. It's about little bitty razors And they are very close together yeah you can't it's like a saw blade. Like a shaving

47:55 You know the one side shaver? Uh-huh. Only not as wide, or you know, it's thin and I'll tell you if you touch it you feel like... you could cut yourself just touching it! Oh yeah, I just don't that's the thing about it so he thought in a couple of days you would be that this would go. Everybody was going to come out and when I came out I tried to bring things that I would use if we went to court But I never got the clothes, you know. The clothes that I had on, I never received back and so when I came out of jail, I had just a white outfit and I was very fortunate to have a white outfit because they sent me to Gatesville who has white

48:39 Waco has orange. I'd have never been able to walk around with that orange on because this morning, our friend said it was about the Davidians. They pulled it off somebody who had sent it in here we were. Okay. Oh! When I got out of... What were you put in jail for? Oh, I was told by the judge that I would be charged with murder and conspiracy to murder and conspiracy But you know what happened, there was about 4 o'clock one afternoon. They took me into this little room with all these men with him to hear what was going on The very next day at the same time they brought me up to the federal court and he came out and told me that they had dropped all charges And they hadn't dropped charges because my right eye is not good enough to shoot with I can see out of it

49:30 But I can't see well enough. You couldn't sight a gun? No, but you could use my left eye but you cannot use the left eye on a right handed gun! Well...I cant really feature you ever shooting a gun period. And Catherine Madison was one of the oldest survivors there and i'm getting ready to show an interview that I did 20 years ago. I am going to just show you raw footage I think it's about 30 minutes long and she is going to tell her side of the story. I got to know Katherine Madison whenever she moved to Austin, Texas back in about the mid-90s She moved in with Wyla and her family

50:16 And while it was associated with the Branch Davidians, we started having the Branch Davidians on our TV show. As you know I was the producer for Jeff Davis at that time later on Alex Jones and a bunch of other Patriot type people and we started having the branch Davidians on in boy did I learn A lot about what happened in 1993 on that attack that happened there. I got to know her very good, I got to love her as a mother or grandma she was such a great lady she would have been in her hundreds by now think she died 2009 and

51:08 This interview here tells the story about what she's seen on February 28th, 1993 and what she went through. Helicopters came in- Why don't you start over again? Okay Do you want to see all this? Yeah that's fine because it is the way it looks now The helicopters came from that direction And they were coming and as they came in, David's room was here. Like this is the building his room extended out on the south side and that's what they were pointing at. They were pointing at his room. And it came intruding in a V formation... I'll tell you! We're going to shoot the house over there

52:09 The house to the left, there's two houses there. The one to the left is where they shop shooters were and after things had gotten to the place where I was released from jail and they had this all encircled with a six foot fence so you couldn't come down this way I walked around. I had to use the bathroom and I knew those houses were available, so asked if I could go in and they said yes So I went in and I walked that all over that house when I could see there you can see one two three windows to the left of the door and That's where they were sitting and shooting That building had

53:07 eight men that would come and go, sometimes there'd be quite a few there. Sometimes they would be gone and at the time I was living here and Wayne was in the... he was with us And I would go to Wayne and ask if you know about it? What about the people over there? Man, they're always there. You know there's always somebody there and he said I'll find out who they are and so he inquired and when he found out they told him that they were going to school over at GSTC well their vehicles were exceptionally nice and most of them looked pretty new trucks in the vehicles

54:07 And so when he told me that, we kind of laughed because we knew that if they had been going over to TSTC they wouldn't have that type vehicle. Because that is not a school that has people with money. They would be going to another college or another place for their instruction. But anyway they used to take our pictures and uh...that's where they did a lot of shooting from And it was a type of boss that you'd find on the road for long distance, like your greyhounds. And we used it quite a bit That was still in good shape after the fire although they had ramped the front of it but this was destroyed after the fire and I don't know who destroyed it but somebody came in and fired at it and tore all the pieces

55:12 Just like they ruined the other bus we had. See? No, this camera can. Can you see that? Uh huh. See that there? That is razor wire! That is so sharp... You can hardly touch it. It will cut you They had some that was bigger. It was about twice the width of this, and that's what I was looking for but i don't see it here But they put the razor wire in front of the windows You know they said they wanted people to come out but they put the razor wire in front of the windows and there was no way people could come out of those windows which they could have crawled out at any time

56:03 with that wire there. That would have ripped them to pieces! You have no concept of how sharp that is I wish i could find the other and went into the barn, and I could see where they had set up snipers there They also set up snipers in the ground where they dug uh...into the ground to make it actually look like it did when you saw pictures of a war and men had dug in so that they could watch the enemy and shoot them. We had snipers all around us, and there were two houses across the street that were one of the houses. They would set up their... So when 25 or 30 people came out on the back of our home there they were shot

57:01 And afterwards they took the... What was the vehicle they used to push him back into? No, it wasn't you. It was a tank ahead of them. Many people came out the back way because they knew if they came out front they'd be shot

57:38 And so they thought, well if they came out the back way they would escape the fire. But because of the snipers that were all around, they were shot and they were shot by experts I feel sorry not only for the people that their going to use but for the people are using because i know what there end will be and I realize David comes back, there'll be a great change and I am waiting for that day. Because I happen to know many things in the scriptures that I cannot tell right now He will tell it when he comes back And he's coming back You can bank on that

58:36 Hello folks, this is Mike Hanson here on the Mike Hanson archives on YouTube and here on my Facebook. And we're here at the 25th anniversary of the memorial service here in Waco Texas and we got Clive Doyle here can you tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are on the 25th anniversary? Here it's It's all right, everybody knows you. It's kind of hard to my daughter just died. My daughter just died there and that's what I heard an we didn't put it out on the Internet because were asked not too this is first time people out here on my a lot of them don't know yet. That was your your first daughter died at

59:39 at Mount Carmel and this was your another daughter? This is my oldest daughter. She's my youngest that died in the fire. Karen was coming down, had her plane booked she was coming down for the memorial and ended up dying in a head-on collision with a drunk driver People up in Pennsylvania saying that it was deliberate, it wasn't an accident. Tried to run a cop off the road first and I guess the cop avoided it. Tried to run down another woman and she avoided it. Karen was third in line so they say she died instantly which is...

1:00:35 At least she didn't suffer too much. But seems like every year there's a few more to go. Yeah, it's just not many left Clive I'm so sorry for all the stuff that has happened to y'all and hopefully it will get better but you always say its gonna be better It'll get worse before it gets better Here you have the remains of the church known in the media as The Compound. Now notice, they said they had to destroy it because of contamination of the ground As usual in Waco and Oklahoma City They destroyed the federal crime scene There you have the ATF flag flying below the Texas and United States flag A battle scene a military operation And here you have

1:01:25 a federal agent grimacing this young lady here. You see Clive Doyle, the man that I know is as gentle as a lamb being led by the federal agent. to his jail cell. Here you have the people that were killed by special military forces, black ops squads that is secret military squads that accompanied the feds we're told also that some British Special Forces teams were inserted to kill all of the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened and there of course you have the evidence before it was destroyed The FBI and BATF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City with a World Trade Center bombing after they've done their handiwork

1:02:05 This is Clive Doyle's daughter, did not deserve to be burned up in the building and shot as they tried to exit. We're here with Clive Doyle one of the surviving Branch Davidians he came down a couple months ago we really appreciate you coming down to share information and knowledge your run-in with New World Order what you call Antichrist forces here in Waco Texas I appreciate you having everybody out here. What do you think about a Attorney General coming out here and speaking about what's happening in the police state? Well, Ramsey Clark has been great friend ever since he got onto our civil case and He has spoken just about every year for the last three years The fact that an attorney general

1:02:54 has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did, I think is a credit to his personality and these principles. Kind of like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kind of things but that may be down the road with respect to the use of military weapons these These pieces of equipment were unarmed as I understand it and were contracted. It was like a good rent-a-car. A good rent-a-car? A tank going into the building? I thought it was an interesting development that we had an FBI negotiator, who negotiated during the siege that actually came out... Is he gone? I'm not sure but this is the first time we've had a government agent

1:03:51 You know, or ex-government agent that was involved with the situation. Did he apologize? He did to me I don't know that he did publicly in so many words What's his name? Ferris Rookstool. Oh, he was one of the guys on the phone wasn't he? FBI negotiated him Where is Ferris I don't see Ferris I'd love to ask him about that That didn't come out in a trial you're some kind of provocateur In fact your one of those FBI agents aren't ya? Hey we are in the middle of our interview right now I know personally I do not give a damn Well I don't give a damn about you either You're not going to anything to me These people are murderers

1:04:32 These people are murderers. I'm sick and tired of hearing your lies when you machine gunned a bunch of men, women and children! You got a big problem buddy. You sit over here...I'm not afraid of you guys. I am a law abiding citizen And i'm sick of it! You sit over here and talk about how the children huddled in the corner? How all the ammunition they had is what killed them All the rest is your garbage You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You don't stand up for the Constitution, you stand for zip-not a zero! I heard that... You have no calm aplomb. It's false my friend and let me tell ya' lot of people are writing down your names. You can follow people around, you can harass people, you can back up your bankster buddies but a revolution of peaceful information is coming and when it comes time you people are going to brought to punishment. Ya understand? Just like Nuremberg just taking orders doesn't cut it my friend. Ya understand me?!

1:05:17 I think I've assessed you. Yeah, oh you've assessed me? You listen! You can sit there and say some kind of little joke all your textbook garbage my friend i got people like General Partin ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development we know the federal government destroyed Oklahoma it's proven we know what you guys are engaged in just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag we know you brought Nazis over here through the rat line to set up our CIA after the OSS so So you can't sit here, you can assess me all day. I want you to assess me! I've assessed YOU a smiley face slime ball that sits here in soft pedals and tries to placate the media Waco rules of engagement shows your agents machine gunning men women and children aged...as they tried to exit one of the inventors of flare technology worth hundreds of millions of dollars is on that documentary He is of the establishment Didn't you hear what I said?

1:06:03 Didn't you hear what I said? No. Yeah, but we don't need this type of placating somebody coming and saying oh i'm so sorry that we did this We don't need that! We needed indictments then you need to go and you need to call for indictment to Janet Reno Are you calling for an indictment of Janet Reno? No. Harriman-Guerin and Dragg are you Oh, so you're not calling for Harriman-Guerin and Dragg? What about people who ran the tanks through this place? Over four years ago I was interviewing Former and current CIA officials about the Delta Force murdering people in Waco, they were extremely concerned. That's now been borne out in the Dallas Morning News and other publications When are you finally going to come clean about the mass murderer using high-level

1:06:43 Special operations killers to kill Americans for publicity very important number one about the Delta Force number two senator John Danforth your special counsel How can he be independent as you and others have said when he is appointed by you? To up to investigate you that's the questions. Thank The crowd giggled and laughed in Reno refused to answer the question makes you proud to be an American Well here, you have it right here We're told that the bunker was here where the children cowered, where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas at Point Blank Range. And then they pushed all of the rubble over there. So the bunker was somewhere over in this area. This is just Mora Big Brother and we just went over to one of the FBI negotiators who's now over here soft pedaling things... I'm not calling for indictments. ...and he's not calling for indictments. Reno! Harriman-Goring & Dragg! Do you know all these slaves are going to get what they ask for? The IRS bending people over all day and all night

1:07:48 It's a real pleasure to stand up to Big Brother and all his slimy cronies. Let's get out of here, pretty sick! I mean you know this better than I do come attack children Oh yeah This didn't need to happen it shouldn't have happened but apparently they had an agenda Do you think that there will be more state-sponsored terrorism like Waco? I don't think it's over my Bible tells me that this beast makes war on God's people And overcomes them and kills them up till certain point Now I don't think we've seen the last of it So this is just the beginning It seems that way. That's what my Bible tells me. You and others have talked about how the water tanks had holes in the top, and the only way they could have holes in the top was from helicopters. Did you see helicopters firing?

1:08:34 Did not see the helicopters firing did anyone say that Catherine saw them other people saw Marjorie Thomas who's from England who was badly burned? She said that her testimony which she she did a video deposition for the trial But I don't think it ever played in its entirety, but in that deposition. She said some of the girls were looking out the window on the north end and the tower and They were so acting sort of agitated. So she walked over to look and see what they were looking at, and she looked out the window and jerked her head back because this helicopter was so close to the glass it scared her I mean it's so close And as she jerked her head back bullets came through and smashed the glass just where she'd been looking at it. And this is right there in the first assault? Right yeah This part of the initial shooting. I told that to the grand jury

1:09:32 I was in the back of the building and the three helicopters came in shooting. And what they were doing was peppering David's room, and so I know who shot the first shots, and I told them who shot the first shots Now by the time they get to the front of the building... See? I saw that two trailers come in I was on the bottom floor and took the newspapers up to my room, threw them on the bed. I was going to lay down and read them that's when i heard the helicopters by the time they turned around to the front of the building and then turned to continue firing all hell broke loose there When I went out into the corridor

1:10:26 to leave. I left the 2nd of March with a tape that David made the 1st of March in the evening when I walked out there wasn't any window that had glass in it, all the Venetian blinds were hanging on one side Now I know there was nobody at those windows because all the women lived in those rooms and they were on the floor over the children to protect them. And they said, They didn't shoot until they saw somebody in a window." All I have heard from you and from all of things that has been said by our wonderful government is lies. It makes me furious to think

1:11:25 that we had no enemies around us. None of our neighbors were our enemies and yet the government feels that it's right for them to come in and start shooting at us, and when David opened that door to let them in and asked them not to use their guns because of the women and children, that's when they were shooting at him. That's when he started shooting in front And one of the men that I had worked with for years, and we traveled because of the things we were publishing. He was one that was shot and when I tried to find out what the government said about his body they tried to tell me he had committed suicide and his stomach was just as smooth as babies yet he had four or five bullets in it

1:12:32 because I talked with one of the men that held his hand while he was screaming. They came in not even caring about the people in their own country, they wouldn't use that gas on their worst enemy because it was against the law! So what law did you come in on? I haven't heard you say one thing that gave you the right to come in. Don't say it was for guns

1:13:08 It was not. Now let me tell you a little story about the guns, there's two stories on it Henry was the one that gave us a license to work under him and the reason we did that is because we had called everyone in from all over the United States and all over the world because David was given this very deep study and you couldn't get it if you weren't there. Now, they had gone over to check him and when they got there they saw David Koresh, David Koresh, David Koresh, David Koresh... And they said who is this? He got on the phone and called David and David said tell them to come here! Tell them to come here I'll show em' I'll show em'. Do ya know what the answer

1:14:13 Brothers told him in the BATF, oh we don't want to do that. We don't want to do it like that! They knew you see there were no guns there except the ones that had been shipped in a box No ammunition nothing they're just just the plain guns and you know You can't do much with a gun unless it has some bullet in it and they were packed away nobody was flung apart

1:14:53 And I don't think there was more than two or three guns there. Because, I know that Paul and his young son had taken everything we had to a gun show because that's what we were doing at that time so he could survive without someone having to go to work and believe me, the people where I lived were not riffraff and they weren't stupid We had people that graduated from Harvard. We had one of the girls that came from Canada, that worked for the United Nations as a linguist She also worked for the Canadian government For schools where she laid out policy for children to follow Most of them were from England, social workers They all have fairly good positions

1:15:56 Nothing mattered except they wanted to kill us all. Nobody wanted to kill you? When the... when the... When the crowds... The guns were found, ammunition was found There was no guns found Yes there was I'm sorry There was And your information about the helicopters and stuff like that You can look at the raw footage on that and you can see the helicopters and none of them ever got... I looked out the window and saw them! ...and you're not telling me truth And so did Margie So did Margie. Well, first off how long were you in prison? I was in prison for 12 years 7 months okay well what charges the original charges were conspiracy to commit murder against federal agents aiding and abetting murder of federal agents carrying a weapon during a commission of a crime

1:17:19 conspiracy to manufacture automatic weapons and aiding and abetting the manufacturing of automatic weapons. Okay, now where were you on the first day of the attack on Waco? I was actually 100 miles away in Austin Texas And did you ever go to the Mount Carmel facility during any of the 51 days? No, I did not. When I came back from Austin that evening the perimeter was already secured they wouldn't allow me past... They had a barrier there outside probably two miles back from the property Okay now how then

1:18:03 the main question then is how do you go from being charged with all these conspiracies that kill federal agents and all this stuff when you're a hundred miles away at a gun show in Austin, Texas? How does that... Well I mean it's the way the law is. They say if you have knowledge of something they are going to hold you as responsible as the person who pulls the trigger but You got to remember it was a pretty political trial. They needed their pound of flesh, there was a certain amount of survivors younger people like myself at the time I was in my early 30's so they had to take and get their pound of flesh and they wanted somebody to be responsible for what happened And it just happened that they uh...they got this small group of people that survived So then I was one of them. So the bottom line is you spent 12 years in prison

1:19:00 for these phony charges and you weren't even on location at Mount Carmel during any of the 51 days. No I wasn't, i think the thing is again It was a political trial. They were trying to find, make somebody responsible for the tragedy they didn't want to take responsibility for their actions so they put these charges on there was 12 of us and we fought for our innocence We went through the judicial system. We hoped that there would be justice served and you saw the outcome I guess it wasn't justice but

1:19:43 We try to leave it in God's hands at this point and be thankful that we're here where we are now. You have an incredible story, I tried for you but thank you very much. Alright, alright thank you! Okay sir what do think about the... how many people still in prison? We've still got political prisoners. At least 11. Eleven Davidians that are still in prison at this time Well yeah about eleven Because one is coming out very soon. We need to press for their release don't you think? I hope we can make it because they have so much They have made that there the amount that they owe so high That even if million point two right even if they come even they can't they have to do the 40 years from what I understand

1:20:35 And even if they do the 40 years and they don't pay the money that the government says they owe, They're going to be charged so many years in jail for so much money. Which would be... They'd be there forever! By the way, they were found innocent of a conspiracy to murder a federal agent Oh yes, there was no conspiracy and you know There was no murder that they talked about. If you have the opportunity to look at some of the tapes that I've seen, you would realize there was no murder. Some of them talk about friendly fire on some of the tapes? What's friendly fire? They shot each other? You remember that first day when

1:21:28 sense that they were gone, they weren't coming back. There was no Mount Cumber to go back to there's nobody calling you on the phone They were not alive anymore and you found yourself wondering how are we gonna live? How are you going deal with it because God has always been there for you You say well I can get through it but thankfully years have passed But you can get through this and as me who is getting through all of these different things with the book We knew that we went from the very beginning to the times when we had both our husband and children, and then into life at Nalcoma. And then you experience fire in all these different things. It's just that hope that you are going be able go on each day trusting God and hopefully see them all again That is what this book is about The whole situation from how I first met 7 Day Adventist

1:22:28 David and all these different things. And this is what this book is about, and it has pictures also in the middle of pictures that I've drawn about the people and there's different experiences like...I wanted to remember them some of the things that some of the people or some of the situations experience while it was during the you know the siege and so I thought the best thing which is to just draw some things. And, I'd get up in the middle of the night sometimes I was drawing things and going how am i drawing these scenes that have been so painful for me? Yeah that would be good

1:23:05 And I decided, I don't have to make this look so good because it's supposed to look ugly. The other one I did was a little darker but the fact is they had no arms and no legs and this is not little pretty girls like these 18 year old girls. They do not... This is not the way you want them to look. I realized every child looked different. Every child came out of that fire Whether they were under a blanket and they were being protected by their mother, each child was different. Some children you could tell the clothes and other children said that heads fell off in their hands. But this is...the majority of people came out looking like this And as a result I think we should realize that it's a horrible thing

1:24:03 My name is Cyrus. I was eight years old when i died, I was burned alive at Mount Carmel April 19th 1993 This one that picture of the Waco the new revelation to show the bodies of the children just burn too crisp no recognition This how I used to look he had blond hair blue eyes freckles He's a cute little guy very smart very intelligent He says why didn't I get a chance to grow up? You know, why couldn't they have had a chance to come and see all this? To know that so many people cared. It's enough that his dad would've died but to think he could have been alive seeing all the things that people were considering. The different things that happened. There is Anita, Sherry and Michelle. These are three girls who were burned at Mount Carmeline for 1993

1:25:04 You don't know what they look like, but we know that the... ...understanding I have is the remains is what they came up with a lot of these young children. These are three girls who were best friends. 18 years old and a few months from being 19 to try to talk and be with each other. Oh yeah! We're out here it's week 17

1:25:42 And I'm digging around out here in some of the rubble piles. We've been digging up household implements, knives, forks, scissors, batteries and a lot of fragments from government grenades and tear gas rounds. We're also finding a lot of different .50 cal rounds, .223 round from conventional firearms really interesting and historical It's too bad the feds came out here and scraped away most topsoil took the pieces of the storm shelter, the storage area inside where they killed children with a shape charge and shipped it off to a landfill outside Waco and covered it up with concrete. We're trying to dig up what we can out here while we are constructing new sanctuary. Very historical and its great to be apart of it. Came out here and were just looking around at that pile of rubble by the driveway

1:26:37 I was getting a cup of coffee and he found it. He said this is the base of the round, and this is what's left of the propellant right here. And he said that's flammable. He really didn't say a whole lot about it to me but he got on Tommy's website in the chat room told Tommy Cook a whole bunch of stuff about it. And, uh... Tommy's here maybe you can talk to him in a little bit and he can tell you what Glenn had said. Something right here Ed! Okay. There probably is something there. That doesn't look like mustard. My grandma. His grandpa? He's doing better.

1:28:06 Kids playing just like it used to be, huh ma'am? She remembers when her other children... the children she took care of every day. Yes Ma'am I bet she does They've all been somebody who we used to see everyday in the hallways and see their mothers taking care of them See this paper with all these different things that talk about how they died. Yes Ma'am And they talk about how they had bottles clutching all melted to them It's a horrible thought. Yes Ma'am

1:28:45 Something that you can't dwell on much at all. No, ma'am. Put yourself at a stop sign and say okay I've gone as far as it can go over this is again think too much more about this. There's old Stewart! Find something to finish with him. Yeah don't think he had it finished. You got any? No were you cooking them yet? Yeah, this is Clive Doyle's mother. And us and the people that know these people we call her Grandma Edna. Grandma Edna do you have any opening statements or comments you'd like to make to the viewers of the program tonight?

1:29:49 I just hope that the people of America will wake up to know that they've got a government running this country, without destroying those who don't go along with them. And the war at Waco is not the last you have seen it. It's going to continue on until God comes down and finishes the work himself So, I want to just... you ought to comment on that. I would agree with everything she said there that there is a government in place now that is out destroying anybody who's righteous or... Haven't they proved it? Yeah! Well, that what the Scriptures teach That's right There are powers that wanna do away with God's people They wanna persecute make war on them and unfortunately the Scripture predicts that they will overcome and kill him for period of time

1:30:36 until the judgment sits and God intervenes. And then when the end we win, or the righteous people win... He says that the kingdom will be given to the saints In fact I heard you my first introduction to you Edna was on a Day 51 video and you were sitting there with either probably Woody Kandik or one of these people maybe I've got it confused now but somebody asked Somebody, one of the Davidians about do you think Jesus is coming soon? And you said... I went to a courthouse after the trial was over in Clare. and somebody was saying do you think David will come back here the sooner the better? Right. And i'm still saying that and asking God please hurry up and send David back and putting him into all this terrible violence evil ruling this world and nobody seems inclined to want to stop it that's the pity of it all people are just sitting taking it

1:31:28 Who started the militia in this country? Bill Clinton. Because he sits in a position where he brought about a position where people are afraid so they take up arms for self-defense, why shouldn't they? Who wants somebody bashing and kicking things around and just stand to it. No way, no home anyway. Grandma do you have any thoughts about this? We hear rumors about this new world order that... Sure there's a new world order! The devil is going to bring one in which is coming almost into existence now and God has got one which is far better and that's the one I'm waiting for. I don't want anything to do with Satan or the people who let him use them

1:32:12 I agree. Ladies and gentlemen, excellent job! Things are proceeding well we're going to get this thing done in the next couple of months you know what i want to thank everybody out here today with the folks that are standing around here in the front area you'll have to move in a few minutes because we're going to go ahead and raise the first wall ladies and gentlemen all right yeah So all I have to say is, death to the New World Order. Long live the Constitution and the Republic and we shall prevail ladies and gentlemen! Death to the New World Order. Long live the Constitution We can, we must, and we will prevail This is just one small symbol against the tyrannical elements of this government that are pushing themselves at the forefront

1:32:55 of the world today, ladies and gentlemen. It's the right thing to do and this is a big deal as we raise this first wall coming up here in just a few minutes so again God bless you! And this is very important what you've done You're all part of history It's good to let the shadier elements of this system understand that demonizing a group of people before you murder them using Army Special Operations forces is not acceptable. At least not here in America, maybe in Nazi Germany but not here in America! We're Americans and we stand up against this type of tyranny and to raise the American flag over the church after they'd burned it to ground that was another abhorrent action

1:33:34 as they appropriated our sacred symbols for their own evil aims. Well, we're taking those symbols back ladies and gentlemen! They are our symbols! They're America's symbols!! God bless you all! Thank you! Hi folks! We're out here in Mount Carmel with David Koresh's brother Good afternoon sir, how are you? I'm doing just great. That's good uh we at Trader Park what do you think about what we're doing out here? I think it's great i think it's positive. It's a positive step yes yeah A lot of us you know they try to claim where uh correct supporters or something and when we try to tell them but we just think what happened out there was wrong and we're trying to help right it that's all What do you think? I agree totally with you I think it's been a long time coming Has been a long time coming

1:34:21 We're certainly glad to see you out here. I think this is just the beginning Yes, sir Yeah, I do too i'm afraid we found out that they had snipers in our dairy barn up at the back of his property from 7 30 In the morning they were out here two hours before truck uh hf drove him away They also had three helicopters involved in the initial raid And I guess their purpose outside of shooting up our water supply and David's room, some of the back... You're saying they opened fire? Now from different stories basically we get the idea that who fired first, the BATF or the helicopters. Well it depends where you were in the building people at the back that's the first thing they heard was the helicopters. Some of us up front we heard in the front door

1:35:08 According to what some of the ATF said, of course I don't always trust their testimony but the ones that got out of the first truck up here when they testified in court they said they heard it initially at the front door. They assumed it was there guys taking care of the dogs So the BATF has claimed on the record that they fired first, but just to take out these dangerous dogs. Well they didn't say first but thats where they heard it first and thats what they said they assumed because... Oh! They assumed? That's what it was. That is was their guys taking out the dogs Can you tell us about this vicious dog who had to be executed We had a female Malamute A Husky Kind of a husky

1:35:49 She was chained to our flagpole, which is about right where that poster is. She was chained with the fence that led up to the front door. Uh she had three or four pups who were not quite a year old, about eight and nine months old then she had another litter in her kennel and of course she's barking because they're shooting their pups. Oh they were shooting the puppies? The older pups yeah. That's loving! They said uh...they were striking because they bared their teeth you know So they shoot the mother because she got upset. I thought she was chained though She was changed to the platform and they were all in a pen that couldn't get out I'm just sleeping over these here club knowing if he's right wing animals taken out as soon as possible. Oh, yeah far children say Well Clive first raid that day

1:36:39 All the horrific behavior happens. So Delta Force was basically back there from information we have, and the APCs on the final day people were trying to exit through the gymnasium area. Over here where this concrete slab is, part of what they were doing coming up between the gymnasium and the swimming pool that's where they're shooting from over in that driveway. Anybody coming out So basically anybody and they had Sierra one was over there, correct? Okay. What's the era to Sierra three? I'm not real sure they had snipers in that but

1:37:24 So they had a burn created up in the French system. Sounds loving Well, we got a lot of people working hard I'm in the midst of a huge allergy attack today My brain's not working too well We're gonna thank Clive Noel for talking to us He is one of the hardest workers out there getting this job done You got the Air Force base right there Jimmy. I've seen that. Zoom in on that if you want. A little loving Air Force base down there We support our military, we don't still support them slaughtering American people Yeah it's Texas whatever is it? Training center yeah Supposedly training center It is also quite good for clandestine activity Kind of like me and Arkansas Bill Clinton a couple months before he go elected

1:38:19 came and visited the power production plant, power plant right over there. And that's confirmed by the Waco paper that he overlooked the area and they assessed it we have a lot of evidence has come out now that they were planning this prosecution against the Colts of America. Were helicopters used in the second final assault? Well, they definitely had planes taking this infrared or this flare tape. Some say there was a fixed wing some say there was helicopter... They were buzzing the building throughout with these jet-type helicopters these black ones throughout the 51 days. Well even though we see these black and dark green helicopters media tells us that they don't exist do they exist?

1:39:00 You know you have photographs in here of them. What would you say to the public out there? I don't know where they get the idea that they don't exist, it's... I guess it is the same place that they say never fly with their doors open when you can see footage right through them! It looks to me like some sort of, and I'm not even joking around a surveillance helicopter because you'll notice on the nose of the helicopter there's kind of a reflection of light. I don't know if you can see that on the video and i could tell you from my stint in the military that it is indicative of surveillance equipment cameras The light reflects off the multiple lenses they have and clearly that's some sort of military helicopter

1:39:38 I'm getting it, Alex. Again there's no mistaking it. I refueled aircraft while I was in the Air Force. I saw helicopters and various aircraft on a daily basis and again that is indicative of the multiple lenses that are on surveillance equipment that they mount to the nose of various aircraft from F-4s, different helicopters. There's standard surveillance cameras also infrared FLIR, they call it forward looking infrared radar and there is just no doubt in my mind the glint off a reflection which I hope you caught on video

1:40:21 Well, there's no mistaking it. That's exactly where they put that surveillance equipment Now let's look at the militarization There they are with the children were huddled and now new evidence shows that they sent in a special ops team With special breathing apparatus to kill everyone inside their and they placed a mine on top of building here You can see them looking down through the hole Here is more FBI provocateur agents destroying evidence. And here you have the equivalent of MJTF FBI squads, these are who are training with your local law enforcement in their German style 1993 Kevlar helmets Here you have some the other FBI teams that stole evidence from the Tarrant County

1:41:04 coroner's examiner's office and that's in Waco rules of engagement well documented here you have some more the tough guy behavior we can't show you the photographs of them exposing their genitalia to the children during the 30th day at a siege they did quite a bit about but here is a real tough guy, he can fire into building filled with men women and children while he wears body armor my as heat up and of course here is some more BATF, you know they shot someone who was driving into the house that day as they came down the road. The first day that the conflagration of terror began and here you have another tough guy with a automatic weapon A HK, a deadly German fully automatic weapon That is an ATF

1:41:49 US government terrorist. And of course here you have the Bradley fighting vehicle, a medium tank and they also had Abrams, the premier front line battle tank here for this group of citizens who had invited the BATF no less than twice to come out and inspect their firearms and the government never found any illegal weapons They got a false search warrant, they lied, violated posse commentatis totally unconstitutional This is a police state This was the first day of the standoff. This is where federal police came up, secret police came up and began firing into the front door when David Koresh opened it they killed several people when they opened fire and injured David Koresh as he held his hands up They then called 911 repeatedly this is all on that 911 tapes and said we're being fired on Helicopters surrounded the area And were firing into the structure through the roof Here you have

1:42:44 the structure before it was destroyed. Here you have the ATF firing as fast as they can down here, firing into the structure with absolute wanton abandonness And then you have people who are in full body armor firing at men, women and children who had committed no crime. And then you have them sitting here crying sorrowfully over a BATF agent that was shot. We're sorry that happened but when you wear black ski mask and you come into somebody's home well I'll say what G Gordon Liddy said aim for the head The BATF pulled up in cattle cars, fully exposed. If the Davidians were waiting to ambush them like a lot of mainstream media made-for-TV television propaganda shows propagandize the people right here

1:43:34 You have the structure and the BATF came up, knocked on the door, and when Koresh raised his hands and said stop let's talk about this we have women and children. They opened fires on the FBI zone tapes into the front of the structure This is even edited tapes And the door that has disappeared Lawyers and people that went inside said the bullets were going in from the outside. You can tell this for novices out there, when a bullet hits a metal door it makes a small hole going in and large hole going out so this again government sponsored terrorism in your country. There is Serenity C Jones April 19th 1993 age 4 murdered by MJTF military police forces under Clinton's command

1:44:19 One more thing, if all I say is a lie why isn't the government coming in prison to me? Because they don't want an investigation. They don't want me to bring out some type of trial all the information Our government is blowing up buildings and murdering churches You know there's a common thread in all this from Oklahoma City To World Trade Center bombing to of course Waco They always destroy evidence and don't let locals in to document anything What do they have to hide This was some murderous cult, as the TV shows told us. Then what did they have to hide? Why do they always destroy the remains? This building was burnt to the ground but they still bulldozed the entire foundation and pushed it up in a heap!

1:45:01 in a monument to the wreckage of the police state. Welcome to The New World Order." We're standing at the entrance to the underground bus, the bunker that they had built because they believed in times of tribulation they would need something like this. Well, they ran over with tanks and crushed the entrance so they couldn't get into their underground bunker And as a result, the men women and children died. Also one of the tanks drove inside the structure and this is even admitted to by the FBI... ...and there was a inside area where they stored food that was concrete They thought that was the safest area because most of the structure was wood right over there They drove directly in and pumped CS gas, a banned form chemical weapon point-blank range into children's faces They don't make gas masks that fit 2-, 3-, 4-year old children my friends

1:45:51 This is incredible. No matter what propaganda you want to believe, those babies did not deserve to be murdered by the black ski mask thugs We're here with Bonnie Haldeman and David Koresh's mother And there is quite a crowd out here today To lend support and try to keep the memories alive of people that did die just trying to live their lives How do you feel five years after the tragedy? Well, I feel pretty much like it did the same you know the day it happened. The great loss and injustice of what was done here to American people in their home, their church and their family. I've seen you her today and talked to your son he seemed like a really gentle nice woman and that makes me think even more so than all stories we heard in the controlled media were lies about your son They were lies they were lies because he was a kind gentle person too loved people

1:46:47 His main goal in life was to help, you know save people's souls and he didn't like anybody to be unkind to anybody else. And he also told the BATF to come on over two weeks before. He did, he told them several times to come out they were in a gun shop one day and found out that they were there asking about him and he said tell him come all over Sheriff Harwell knew him and had... The sheriff of this county said that he was a good guy and wasn't bothering anybody and this was a good community out here? He had come out here many times you know just In and talk to David and Sheriff Harwell told me last year. He said I'm sure I'm sorry Bonnie What happened if anything? I can do for you Attorney generals sheriffs here in Waco the sheriff here in Waco it just goes on and on FBI crime lab chiefs

1:47:39 We're here at the BOSS Conference Town Hall meeting and I'm joined by Mr. Lester Gibson who is a County Commissioner in McLennan County which Waco is inside your county, and I had asked him the question off the air and he's going to answer it now if he was aware of what his comments would be finding out that roughly 33% of people that died in the church in Waco were black I'm aware of that particular figure and I knew Martin who was an attorney in that particular country. We know Sheila by the way, we're good friends with Sheila So i am aware there were sufficient number of African Americans who perished in the fire And does it... what were your feelings when..I gotta tell you I was pretty upset

1:48:31 just not hearing any outrage either publicly or from public officials about what transpired there because you can say what you will about the adults but there were women and children that died there that were all innocent. Maybe some of the adults we're guilty as something, but the children every one was innocent What was your reaction to the fact that there were no public officials, white or black that came out and said hey wait a minute tanks on babies. I'd be interested in hearing your response to that? Number one it was televised nationally everybody in the world saw what was going on everybody could formulate their own opinion

1:49:10 And that's something that was exposed and the opinion itself, you understand basically could have been forward coming. Such as the opinion now we got with President Clinton it wasn't a spin that the media wanted to put on it and therefore you've got this spin, you understand they want American public To see and to see just that so I'd be interested in getting you a videotape. I don't know if you're aware There's a documentary out called Waco rules of engagement Have you seen that that clear footage areas in my precinct? Okay, I'm kind of conditionally to the area is in my precinct some I'm aware of the footage

1:49:50 uh... with the film stuff like that but what would it be a list of media put this ban on you understand who owns the media so i don't control it uh... i can't give the spin uh... was back to what happened out i think it's important to know and i'm glad you're here in ten listening this is a we try So the theme of what we saw in the town hall here was to educate. And what people do once they have that education, I can no longer control but I do have some control over the fact that many people haven't been educated to many of the facts that we just spoke of and as they learn there are Harvard Law graduates in their, a lot of people think these are a bunch of crazies

1:50:31 You mentioned knowing Mr. Martin, I mean Harvard Law graduate for goodness sake this is not a crazy kooky person and when we learn as the black community particularly learns that 33% of those people who died were in fact black suddenly they realize it's a situation where it wasn't just a bunch of crazy white people there was people from all races and ethnicities in there And I like to educate people on that fact and let them make their own decisions and choices That's true but that's a fact that it was a great number of women, a great number of children. All ethnic groups but in regards to your question about African-Americans you had a great number who were released. That's right. Well listen I appreciate your time Mr. Lester Gibson and your County Commissioner and precinct what? Precinct too

1:51:33 Okay folks, we're back here with Sheila Martin and she is a Waco survivor. And I want to... how did you think the 24th anniversary went this year. She thought it was very interesting having them the pictures with the names that made Oh, that was a great yes Great show you put on this year helped you to see That these were real people at these they all had very pleasant faces They were very young so one thing you recognize is And they all were from different places and different nationalities. And y'all made it clear this year, I always thought that was a really good point why Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all these people never took up for the minority black people here that was here like one third of the people were black here right? How come I never heard from Jesse Jackson

1:52:26 But if you got one person beat up on the street out here, you've got 2,000 people on the street protesting. We sure didn't have a lot of protests when y'all were being violated here. Y'all were actually... your family was actually murdered in my opinion So I and I just wanted to always show you every year so, you know we get a little grayer every year You stay the same Sheila. You say the same for 24 years? You've looked the same How do you stay so young? And let me just point back at the church here I

1:53:04 I'm so glad that God had his hand on that church because a tornado hit it. You know that, right? That's what they're saying and I would hate something to happen to that church because that church was a lot of work for us to build it and you were there hammering too over the years What took seven months to build we start, you know we started that 17 years ago September 19 1999 and then We dedicated it to y'all seven months later on April 19

1:53:42 2000, year 2000. That was 17 years ago and now we're at 24 years! Yes Next year is going to be 25? I at least get to see you once a year yes that's right God bless you Sheila Thank You And I saw your daughter she how old is your daughter now 28 oh my god yes god and how old was she your daughter when all this for All right, well God bless y'all. And let me just say something to you all here I hope you all put a good story together and get the truth out here what happened here at Mount Carmel because the truth has not all came out yet Sheila. You keep talking remember when you were on Extra?

1:54:21 about 17 years ago or something? Now that's the first time they ever had any truth come out and it was on one of those tablet shows, you know that extra TV show hard copy or whatever you were on. That was good hope y'all do the same bye such a beautiful girl while Clive Doyle simmers fellow Davidian Sheila Martin suffers She lost her husband and four of her children in that Holocaust. I call it murder, that's what i call it. Okay they're telling me to hurry up okay uh are you there caller? Am I on yes go right ahead okay we got Catherine Madison she's a Mount Carmel survivor okay I was wondering um why didn't everyone just walk out as soon as the federal agents arrived the first day if there was any type of government

1:55:06 agent or local agent, or whatever. Why didn't people just walk out of the compound and just stand outside? If there was going to be some type of government murder on a bunch of people then it would have been obvious when everybody is laying their dead. I think it was very obvious to see what happened well I mean i just don't understand if everybody decided let me ask you to be fighting against an army here why don't we let me ask your question during you know she was actually quite a question okay you're in your home with your family and all of us on somebody comes to your house and surrounds it and starts the fire at you are you going to come out

1:55:51 i don't think so well i mean there was a lot of media that it would hard when me and it was uh... well i guess about the top of the in a place with a hundred people are still and uh... budget police drove up and told us to walk out who is shooting at him without asking for the last time i didn't tell them they started did not tell us how what out she saw the house no knocking at the door after all my flight there wasn't says well i thought that way any any media salary issue would have been always white flag you know messages saying we surrender you know whatever uh... there was no attempt to just kind of they really well have you done any investigation on this certain time okay okay here's my second point okay if that's the best case where he could be even everything looked like that and it all looks evidently happen for a better

1:56:43 then is there not an attorney who would take your case and you could sue the government? We're doing that. Sir, we're trying to do that. Have you ever seen Constantine Wyer? I didn't see it until just a very short time ago. They had that right up to the windows, they couldn't have gone out the windows, they couldn't have gone out the door... You couldn't get out of there! Now they said they put it around to keep people They didn't say whether going in or coming out. But they, you couldn't get in or out of that place. Well I'm not gonna say that uh... Ramsey Clark and the billion dollar lawsuit sir. They are suing. Ramsey, Ramsey Clark and the billion dollar lawsuit That's what they got going on right now. That's right Okay well I believe if um, If your successful with that lawsuit then everybody's eyes will be open to what really happened And they will be able to hear both sides

1:57:44 Let me just say this before we go off. I wish you luck with that too, sir let me just say this before we go off that uh... I felt the same way you did a year ago and since i've been looking into this, uh...I found out a lot of things that does not match up with what the government's saying. But anyway go right ahead we're going to try get one more call in before I have to make an announcement hurry. Catherine thanks for being on tonight all of us here at Austin appreciate it. I think the ATF oughta crack down on all the fraternity houses where all the real drugs and fornication is going on Okay. More information on the 51-day siege continues to surface, some Austinites packed up their tools today and headed north up I35 towards Waco Their mission is to build a church on the grounds of Mount Carmel Lisa Hannah has the story After just a week of planning dozens of volunteers from across the state gathered at Mount Carmel to build a church

1:58:41 It's a project that was started by Austin radio talk show host Alex Jones. We're going to build this church back, I've talked with the Vagabranch Davidians and they concur with my idea to have it a church and at the same time a memorial and museum for what happened right here on this very ground in 1993 It's called the Phoenix Project, a church that will rise from the ashes of the Branch Davidian compound. I think it is important that we have a place to worship again after our church was destroyed. Volunteers are doing all the work. Volunteer such as Austin contractor Mike Hanson We just think its the right thing to do

1:59:21 Jones says the 50 by 50 foot church is more than just a building. He says it's a symbol of what happened here more than six years ago. Jones calls it an attack on religious freedom. Todays effort was organized by syndicated radio talk show host Alex Jones, he says rebuilding the church will be a state wide effort And so now a large group of people here in Austin, we're going to be met by others in Waco and Temple and surrounding areas in Central Texas are all going to travel to Mount Carmel the site of the fiery conflagration in 1993. To rebuild the church sanctuary area out of the Mount Carmel complex And the church is expected to be completed in about three months. We're just thankful to God that there are certain people in this country who still got a spirit of assistance and wanting to do something to show their sympathy and concern for what happened here, we appreciate it

2:00:18 Plans call for the new site to hold a new 30 by 40 foot white frame church. It's expected be completed in two, three months. A scene of mass destruction becomes a foundation for a new beginning good evening I'm Kim Barnes. And I'm Bill Scott Austin volunteers are rebuilding a chapel on the side at the branch Davidian compound near Waco The compound burned down in 1993 after 51 day standoff between Davidians and federal agents Davidian leader, David Koresh and about 80 followers died. KB24's Joel Thomas reports on the new plans for the property I've known the Branch Davidians a long time and i think they're good God-fearing people. I think they were demonized. Most are galvanized by the thought that federal government murdered The Davidians, They videotaped deputies who come to hurry them along They don't trust law enforcement anymore or the media with donated materials and labor Take exit number three nine... They receive directions head to ground zero We're gonna rebuild it!

2:01:19 Waco. At the Davidian compound, the work begins even as the convoy pulls in. Plans are for a modest chapel. We anticipate at least three months for the construction process. They build on the very site where America saw a shootout I think it's sad that a lot of people don't really care, you know what happened here Seeing the battered rubble here staggers even those who've studied the standoff As they reflect on what happens there is a sense even students of Waco do not know the entire message It's not the same...I want to live here

2:02:03 But I need a trailer to do it and i don't have money. You would come back out here and live like that? You bet I would in a week! Watson walks into Memorial Grove, each withered tree planted for someone who died here there is still the lonely vigil for David Koresh's return only feeling no one from outside of the compound can ever understand. I'll tell you when helicopters come after you and you see them, and you hear them. And you know what they're doing." That's a entirely different story. Even so one of the workers who drove here from Austin says he feels like he is building a future tourist stop...a sort of Alamo for the Branch Davidians but one of the Branch Davidians who was here tells me that's okay after all he says the only chapel they really need in heaven in Waco Joel Thomas KVU 24 News

2:03:00 Good morning Mike. I got you already. The early people... He's with channel 8 and he is with Channel 42. We're in the Capitol Plaza, that's Capitol Plaza! Well as you can see it's about ten after seven by 730 we'll probably have about twice this number of people good Patriots standing up against this massive witch hunt was conducted unsuccessfully I might add in 1993 what we're witnessing is a large group of Americans, Texans here attempting to go away from the event

2:03:58 Hey, I'm being told not to film and I wouldn't do it. What are you saying? She came over here and said she came over here and said I couldn't feel. She just wanted us to feel the love. Sorry bud. I'm sorry we're used to this trust. What you're seeing is a group of Texas Americans standing up against the police state, standing up against what happened to the Branch Davidians who were demonized back in 1993. The basic cover-up with the federal government and we're now witnessing media and many others finally realizing that we've all been lied to, we've all been conned. The Branch Davidians have never changed their story they've always told the truth and that's been borne out in the past six years

2:04:51 And so now a large group of people here in Austin, we're going to be met by others in Waco and Temple and surrounding areas of Central Texas. are all going to travel to Mount Carmel, the site of the fiery conflagration in 1993. To rebuild on the church sanctuary area of the Mount Carmel complex What exactly happened there in 1993? If you could just give it to me... if you can analyze what happened. What happened in 1993 was basically that BATF wanted their funding increased They were out there with four cameras They had a 100-man assault team that went in and basically opened fire first. They were going there wanting blood, they only had an arrest warrant for David Koresh And they could have picked him up any time in town but they didn't choose to do that They sent in 100 man assault force, 100 man assault force Opened fire, helicopter gunships came in This is something really hasn't been told but we have the video evidence of it actually happening

2:05:50 And then 51 days later, after psychological warfare and basic torture. When people would try to leave they would have flashbang grenades thrown at them Now the Texas Ranger's report shows this They were basically contained The Army Special Operations Delta Force was sent in with the FBI hostage rescue teams From the internal Delta Force memos that are now farmed to be real via the Freedom of Information Act It showed that they discussed in the memos violence of action basic arrest situation, not a hostage situation. They went in there to basically according to the Dallas Morning News take them out and in special forces terms and most people know what take them out means but for the special forces term it means kill

2:06:32 What exactly are you going to do today? How much are you going get done today, is what I mean. We're going... well yesterday we were out there and surveyed the area where we put stakes in the ground. We're basically going to dig a foundation. We're gonna pour the foundation and that's the most important stage of any building project then in the next few weeks we're gonna move forward start building superstructure And I would say within two and a half to three months you'll have the fully functional sanctuary there for the surviving branch of dividends, and for a monument to what happened in 1993. With the police and the military all working in concert attacking any group of people it's horrible! Then to see them demonize where they were demonized and all that has been now disproven is really a frightening trend in this country. In fact its reminiscent of Nazi Germany

2:07:20 And so we need to focus on that and have a historical perspective about how dangerous it is when you have these type relationships forming. The news media fell for it big time, didn't they? A lot of Americans fell for it. The news media was held back two and a half miles, the only footage we got was a German newscam on a 24-foot platform amongst ranch land from far distance with super zoom lens and all we got was the very front and incidentally that probably saved Clive Doyle's and David Thibodeau's lives because that The only people that survived were those who got out the front and side where the news cameras could actually get some footage. Everyone that was hurt in towards the back by the tanks, it actually went inside died We now have the actual flare footage of the Delta Force and the hostage rescue teams shooting at people as they tried to exit Now what do you folks need to complete this mission?

2:08:14 We need people to donate time and materials, and yes if they want money the legal department will just go buy the materials we need for the delivery of essential coins as we're doing this morning. That's all we need is people's time and people's energy, and the people's heart. And we're gonna be able to say to certain elements of the government, it's not the whole government but certain elements in the government that would try to engage in a cover up and smear campaign or witch hunt against American citizens. We would say to them that this was about standing up saying the people of Central Texas, Well, it's about freedom of religion and the free exercise thereof. The Davidians have never changed their story and the government has. And I've been studying it for

2:09:20 Well, ever since it happened. And as time goes on I begin to realize this was basically a witch hunt about getting more funding for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and what happened here was wrong we've got an Air Force base over here We've got a great observation tower over there. We have nice little undercover houses They picked this place It was perfect area to basically ambush a group of innocent people and start initiating America into the modern police state Let's talk about today Sure. Well, for years coming to the remembrances we've talked about trying to do something for the Davidians but it was all talk and finally myself Mike Hanson said look let's just do it I think we can get people behind that I think there are enough people in Central Texas that care and realize what happened was wrong

2:10:17 So we put it together, in fact we started announcing it last Monday and here we are on Sunday as we said we would. And a lot of great people have shown up more or other way from Dallas and Fort Worth right here in Waco and Temple and Austin all areas in between. We're gonna build this church back I've talked to the Svalbard Branch Davidians and they concur with my idea to have it be a church at the same time a memorial and museum for what happened right here on this very ground in 1993. I believe there's only four Davidians out here today, surviving branch Davidians now these are just

2:10:59 concerned citizens here in Texas and from all across America. People were hearing about this, saying that they're going to come for at least part of the construction. So this is mainly a volunteer effort, Central Texas showing the world that hey we think what happened here was wrong these people's constitutional rights are violated they were stamped as criminals and paraded before the press and basically demonized. And I don't even blame the press for that, it was the government! They held the media back two-and-a-half miles and then engaged in their demonization program. We're here to say hey enough is enough we're not going to talk and argue about this anymore we're here to support these people and support America that's what America is about. What's the time frame in terms of what you guys are doing today?

2:11:42 Well, we have built another home for a veteran in Austin Texas Joe Campana. We did that in 14 days of city record and it's fully furnished because the bulldozers were coming they condemned his old home and said he wasn't going to help him That took 14 days but that was inside Austin in the metropolitan area Since we are outside Waco and Bellmead I can certainly say three months but probably within a month-and-a-half or two months you'll have a fully completed church We need to complete it that fast to keep our momentum up and get the job done properly As far as the land dispute goes, they said it's okay to go ahead and build. Yes absolutely well Clive Doyle has paid the back taxes. Clive Doyle as you see lives here on the property in his mobile home and regardless of what ends up happening with a land I've talked attorneys and others and it's even been on The Waco Tribune that basically once a church is built here It'll just be up for the trustees at the church who basically owns the property so it's even more

2:12:37 let's say affirming whose property this is and it says, this property belongs to the surviving branch of idioms and climbed oils paid the back taxes. But regardless we're building a memorial to what happened here I don't think anybody would ever want to tear it down Hey, thank you sir. Appreciate it. Could you address any legal ramifications or legal advantages that you have filling a church here? Well I've talked to attorneys and read some of the reports, some published reports. Clive Doyle is already positioned he has

2:13:14 a renowned attorney, former Attorney General Ramsey Clark. He's paid the taxes and regardless of who gets this property this place will always be basically a battlefield museum almost people are going to be coming out here probably forever wanting to understand what happened here and so basically that's why we're here put a mark on history saying the people of Central Texas and America said no, this is wrong what happened here. And we're not going to believe the propaganda. We're not gonna believe the lies and hopefully by leading by example that media and others are finally starting to wake up to what happened will also join us in trying to heal some of the wounds. Thank you.

2:14:02 Oh. Okay, here it is with a shovel When I look and saw the people and how they're helping... ...I didn't think anybody had the guts to do it But I'm finding out And I know there are people outside that agree with us They're just afraid to speak up Just in case you don't remember Let me jog your memory In a church they called The Waco Compound

2:14:43 Back in April 93 17 little children All so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flame How many names can you recall? 17 little children Don't it make you wonder?

2:15:30 Little Chiii How could they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves We become so blind Seventeen little children Find me your How did you sleep last night Bill Clinton Tell me, did you feel their pain

2:16:17 Seventeen little children Cried out and perished in the flame Attorney General Janet Reid I accept your offer to resign How can you stand for when you won't answer to your crimes? Seventeen little children

2:17:01 All so helpless and so small Seventeen little children How many names can you recall? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves We become so blind Those seventeen little children

2:17:38 Finally open up your mind I've heard it said the Branch Davidians Only got what they deserved Yet no one seems to know what Logan What was in the ward they never served Yesterday, I sold my TV set Stopped my subscription till the time

2:18:21 To be explained to see, was an accomplice to these crimes. Seventeen little children don't it make you wonder? Seventeen little children how could they deserve to die? We should stop and ask ourselves

2:19:04 Have we become so blind? Will seventeen little children finally open up your mind? I love Miss Catherine. There she is, we're going to rebuild you a nice beautiful church out here. There she is, miss C how are you doing? Hi, proud of y'all. Oh it's good, blast.

2:20:08 Hey, you burn it we rebuild it. Volunteers of America. Does anybody need any sunscreen? I'll scan it in. I'l go to a one hour photo, although there was a guy here earlier he's got a digital camera and he said he's going email me some of his photos and i figure once people see the activity they will be...

2:21:08 and Steve Wayne swinging it as he always does. He's been involved in so many projects now no breeze at all folks. And he is helping cut the steel with the steel cutter Trying to steal. Trying to! Well, you're doing a great job. Thank You. Your welcome ma'am.

2:22:08 We got crime overtaking our cities. We got gangs taking over our streets. They keep handing out more and more welfare, though it never seems to meet their needs. Next summer you won't have this. Come on son, sit down right here. Everybody say Central Texas Resistance. Freedom fighters! I need Mike Hanson live.

2:22:50 You mean they've got none of the materials we need? What about a Home Depot? Oh, you mean... We have a lot of folks out here today. A lot of folks who are still working hard, a lot harder than I had. Make sure you don't have heat exhaustion. Drink lots of fluids! It feels good challenging the false reality not playing along with all their garbage putting it in their face getting up off our butts This is good ladies and gentlemen, this is important! This is fantastic. God bless you all We're gonna build this thing! This man does it all

2:24:10 Even the Lord will be in that number when we have reached there. you say something that's Jeff Davis digging is that Jeff Davis diggin? Jeff Davis how long has he been out here digging an hour now oh get out of the way Jeff Davis got the pig he's blue eyed you know one eye blue left and the other one blue right

2:24:49 get used to it. Get out of the way Keith let her swing. I thought he had a hernia or something. He does, but you better stop! What did you find? Okay, this is to a .44 Magnum. Yep! You can tell...you know all about guns? Heck yeah, you're a great American kid ain't ya?! And this is to a 9mm. That's a nine millimeter shell? Uh-huh. You got some bullets there! 308. Same man that did Joe Campano's house.

2:25:53 what's going on Jimmy? Hi. Hold on just a minute I already got you on there going like that looking so pretty hello Alex hello Jimmy just got done eating some great food my friends call me pokey, like slow pokey I know pokey hows it going? It is going! appreciate your help out here on this project as you can see we're ahead of schedule pouring all the cement 60 something holes we dug Spec we got the engineer 60 holds all the spec. Yep, there's my dump truck over there It is great great job. That's my brother great job Ritter for bringing all the all the concrete Okay

2:26:41 Hi, Gene. Hey there's one of Gene's ex-girlfriends over there already! That's alright. Hold on Alex we lost this. It's the ones of us that ate the Xs at camp how Mike Hanson had overheard us talking and Mike come to me and said he wanted to learn And Mike is taking off like a duck to water He and Alex are together so All I know is we're getting this built, and we're gonna build it. Huh? We're gonna build this place. By the hand of God y'all will be able to do it. Monthly Sundays but it might take...monthly Sundays. That's right. Might take two monthly Sundays! You can call us by the hand of God or you can call us wherever you want. Alright guys where are you putting your name at? My name's at H-4. What are we building? A church. For who?

2:27:30 What is this, Jesse? Not so big. That camera he's got there has night vision. You can't film it not do it. Hey Josh! What are you all using? Nails! Go ahead Josh put yours in there too. There are some hand prints. And now we're closing into our home base Alex Jones, you burn it we rebuild it. There is right there look at folks You burn it we rebuild it Right over the heart Right over the heart Great job Hey aren't you supposed to be dumping some dirt? Okay guys don't jump he's gonna bang the door It's the fun part

2:28:42 Hey Sonic Boom! I warned ya! Who's gonna be here? As far as i know it was me. That Ed Homan is a trooper, wonder where that car went. We're here talking to Ophelia Santoyo, she's a surviving Ranch Davidian. We've gotten the chance to get to know her over the years out here but she has really helped us even in the first days when it was really hot out here to pour the foundation and now get the church where its at. Ophelia what do you think of the Church Rebuilding Program? I think its wonderful! I really like the church, looks so beautiful When you first heard about us talking about rebuilding it did

2:29:38 Did you think we'd really do it? Yes. I never doubted it. Wow, because you knew Mike going way back didn't ya? Yes. The cameraman? Are you surprised that the government hasn't offered to help or hasn't done anything? Oh yes, I am You thought they would come out and help Right, yes Why would you say that Because well... all the damage they've done to us They destroyed everything we had and they destroyed even our families, and even ourselves. Because we have gone through a lot since then My mother has been so sick since then She's been so depressed And she almost committed suicide She was so depressed because of the loss of her family How many members in your family died? Six

2:30:48 Who were they? My only daughter and... What was her name? Julie Martinez, and all her kids. There was five kids They had an opportunity to come out Why did they decide to stay? They were afraid! They were afraid to come out because you know what it We were looking all the damage they were doing to us. They were destroying everything and so we were afraid to come out." Well I know a lot of people are afraid to come out, in fact the feds, federal government even admits that military admits that the tactical teams on the ground during the siege when they would tell people to come out get some letters from their lawyers or letters from the government and that they would throw flashbang grenades at them did you hear about that? Yes

2:31:51 You talk about damage. What type of damage were they doing with the tanks? Well, they were destroying all our cars and they were destroying around the kids' motorcycles... All their toys and you know what they did to have a... How do you call it? Go-karts Yeah go-karts and motorcycles And there are lot of toys And they used to have a sandbox where all the kids used to play. They destroyed that and they destroy all our gas tanks, they broke everything. Clive Doyle and others have talked about them destroying all of the cars? Yes, they destroyed all of our cars. This is a right wing dog isn't it! You better send in the BATF.

2:32:53 Well, that's horrible to hear that you lost six members of your family. When you watch the television news are they telling the truth? No I don't think so. Most of them they don't say... They don't say the truth You know and when people have interviews they always try to twist things we say That is a reason why i dont like having interviews Now this was the first interview you've done isn't it Yeah, I've done short talks. Of course you have been on my radio program. Jack the Mongol Beagle is also being interviewed right now. Well last question Ophelia and I appreciate you talking to us out here. First before I ask that last question what are you doing here?

2:33:54 Well, I'm trying to weed out all the trees for the memorial April 19th. And of course that's to remember what happened on April 19th 1993 with the BATF. He is hard-nosed he is hard boiled and he is tender his name is Alex Jones What's amazing is that this man is only 26 years old. Considering what he has accomplished and demonstrated in building this church, I believe that by age 36 he could become the youngest president of the United States. This is Alex Jones. Victory is ours against the New World Order! Against the communists and socialists and bankers who run the whole filthy show

2:34:51 And now that they run the world, or at least the central hubs of power and the banking establishments in the dominant media. They plan to sack this country are you gonna let them feel your ancestors? These individuals again were testing you, testing back in 93, testing you with a World Trade Center With Waco and then in 95 with Oklahoma Trying to scare you running off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings but some Americans aren't lemmings God bless you Alex and his cameraman Mike Hansen make underground videos in which they confront the people they feel are complicit in this great conspiracy. Agent Littleton? Yes Now, this is a classic thing we saw this in the Nuremberg trials in 46' in Europe We saw Germans SS and also regular army saying oh it was my commander and his commander that commander And I was just there doing my job

2:35:53 And then you say that you haven't seen Waco Rules of Engagement was up for an Academy Award. It's not some footage they cooked up, it came out in the Senate hearings with Arlen Specter and others So to sit there and just say that you haven't seen the footage even the third generation It's very obvious. They have one of the inventors of flare technology who works for the Pentagon, they're saying well this is automatic weapons fire and then they lay a schematic down and show where all machine gun nests were and it shows 60 minutes wooden air or port that introspection that does work for the ATF who did a study in

2:36:30 and said yes, this shows people exiting and entering the building firing automatic weapons. You see an incendiary device several of them being fired in some of those rounds were actually found those incendiary grenades And I understand that the ATF needs more funding for Comrade Clinton and the Clintonistas We understand this and we understand that we have the footage of y'all loading up the cameras and going out to kill a bunch of kooks! And i'm sad that your agents Some of your agents got injured and killed. And I'm not going to sit around and make threats when it comes time for me to leave my parents, my girlfriend, and my life, I will for my country. And I really don't want to die because...I really don't want to die because I love this country but if i have to die for my country I will." And either- I think I can see that little gleam in your eye you would almost laugh when you say I can't talk about that or I have no idea about that

2:37:26 You you sir look like a gangster. You look like a criminal you you reek of it, sir Well that's fine. That's fine well yeah No, it's not personal It's the it's the huge keep it to the facts. It's the usual this was why I don't come here I never will come again But this is what it comes down to I had to come and talk to you and tell you that I've read the Constitution, I know what's going on in the country. I know about RECS 84. I know about FEMA. I've been around to national parks and seen executive orders. I know what is going on in this country from Oklahoma City World Trade Center bombing

2:38:07 The October 29th, New York Times 28 even admits it. Got a copy of it in my car that the BATF and FBI helped the terrorists cook the bombs Andre Strossmeier, Air Republican Army Carol Howe warned the FBI and BATF It doesn't matter Y'all stir up these hornets nests to have media events to scare the sheep And frankly, it's sick and it's sad. It is the nature of power That all you are a Roman centurion and all the rest of your type I know there are good people that have left your agencies and have left all the apparatus of control I want to know why haven't seen Waco Rules of Engagement? Why won't comment? You said you were 1100 yards away from back of building where automatic weapons fire was coming from You saw

2:38:56 Sir, there's footage of it. There is tape of it! You want me to give you one of the tapes? Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps your not a criminal. Perhaps your just power hungry. Let him respond. I have to say that there was no automatic weapon fire coming from the back of the building. I'd like to see those tapes if I had seen them. Well they got em at the video store or why don't you call C-SPAN and get a copy from them They aired on TV and thats how controlled our press is You scare me. Seeing our local police training with you guys in black ski masks and we've gone up from 390,000 to 490,000 officers and they're building helicopter bases here in Travis County. Damn it!

2:39:33 We've been sucked off for so long. We pay 62% in some form of tax, we just wallow around and beg like a bunch of little pigs at your feet and it isn't good enough because you're insecure and deep down inside you can make the rationales all day. We're self-righteous, we're doing what's right I'm nonviolent to the end defending my country from what's coming and we see it building up, we see it preparing while President Clinton wallows over in China So do you You have no soul if you do not come to grips with what really happened in Waco because you obviously won't even comment on all the missing evidence and on everything else that is happening. The front door, to the flare footage and then Oklahoma City with the seismographs and General Park. It's so much! There is so much going on. So much evil, so much tyranny, so much barbarism What do you think when you walk into your office and there are all these little fleets of minions?

2:40:26 It's sad to me. They need to go work for the mob or something, at least there they can sleep with themselves at night and they're not acting like criminals." To reiterate David's words on one of the negotiation tapes he was very sad that there were agents who were killed He was sad that there were agents who were wounded and I feel the same way But if we can honestly look at stories told We have to admit

2:41:17 story is not all the truth there is. It's a one-sided view, they may be many of them many agents that were there that have their side of the story that they firmly believe in and there are survivors who have this side we have every reason to be angry like yourself you lost friends somewhere in between as a balance of truth not just our side and not just your side depending on where you were

2:42:04 What you saw, what you heard and what you experienced is where your prejudices are. We hold no malice toward the ATF or the FBI but we find it very hard to believe them and trust them because if they were so right in their stand that they took and in the way that they performed their tasks then would not need the lies and covering up and losing of evidence

2:42:48 and the delaying in the courts, they would be more than happy to have the truth come out. May not be your fault that the door is missing may not be your fault that there were shots fired from helicopters but I think in all honesty as a human being you've been long enough in the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms to have seen a lot of things that were wrong nobody climbs any corporate ladder

2:43:34 without sacrificing principles. I don't care whether it's a business or government agency or law enforcement, even in the church we see all kinds of things go on that are wrong and there are those who turn their back on what is wrong in order to succeed, in order their benefits every time I see these kids put through school or whatever their excuses and reasons are. The ATF is not without fault, the FBI is not without fault and I am not without fault David's great concern was for the safety of not only people inside the building but those on the outside of the building on February 28th it did not have to happen that way truth of the matter is very plain

2:44:42 David could have been approached prior to February 28th. He could have been approached on February 28 in a peaceable manner and all this could've been avoided, you may feel justified in firing because you were trying to protect your officers the people on the inside that did fire probably feel justified in responding to protect the women and children perhaps their own lives volatile situation. I'm sure there was fear and panic and all kinds of feelings on both sides, on February 28th If we were a bunch of crazies that just wanted you all dead You'd have been all dead There was no ambush 50 or 60 people standing at the windows with machine guns and bazookas ready to blow you away Or you would not have any ATF agents walk away after two-and-a-half hours

2:45:57 even if you still had some ammunition. That was not our intent, it was not our intent that there should be any shooting and we were made to pay for defending ourselves for 51 days by another agency which I understand you're going to absolve yourself from being the FBI who also justify everything they did the torture and the lying because they feel we brought it on ourselves We refused to come out

2:46:45 Like you said, those reports show wrongdoing in the ATF. They show wrongdoing in the FBI I don't believe myself that a court case in front of a jury where all the evidence could be brought out would be excuse me...a terrible thing We've asked for that and the government, be it to be ATF or the FBI are stalling for all they're worth because they do not want to go to trial

2:47:29 As in the case of Lon Horiyuchi, who feels he is justified in being protected by his position in the agency for shooting Vicky Weaver. He doesn't feel he should go on trial, should be exempt maybe you feel the same way for some of the officers involved in Winko but if the truth's ever going to come out then it needs to be allowed to come out and all the evidence needs to be put out on a table

2:48:11 not just the jury and the courts to look at, but for the whole American people. We cannot just tell our side and you cannot tell just your side and come to the truth because we're both biased I hope that in the months years whatever remain for us all to go through that somehow there can be some kind of reconciling some kind of acknowledgement And above all I believe

2:49:00 What would have pleased David the most would be that those who were party to the raid and the siege that followed could somehow ultimately learn the truth that David tried to put across, and have a part in his kingdom. That was all he was interested in was saving of souls regardless what you may think of him, his lifestyle or teachings or what took place for 51 days. David was very concerned for souls

2:49:37 And that's what we're about. And we would love to see you all saved, I don't want revenge. I don't wanna see any more people killed on either side but unless they're willing to be honest with one another and face up to the things that we as a government perpetrate and do and take a stand about whether it's right or wrong based on the facts not on our loyalty to our agency or whatever then we will have other Wacos

2:50:18 We will have other situations where people will feel justified in resisting abuse of power or a violent entry on some pretext. Let me just say in closing that I am sorry, but we've been began some of that reconciliation by having you shake down.

2:51:01 It's not easy to stand in front of a jury of your peers, which we are right now sir. We are judging you and we are judging the group for whom you work with whom you work I heard you say early on that in your opinion The people at Waco got what they deserved Did you say that? Yes, I could have yes. I think that for you one human being You want to comment on that? If I said they got what they deserve, what I meant was they caused it themselves. Did I just say that? They brought it on themselves. I didn't say child abuse. Reno did! Maybe it was Reno who said but whether they brought it on themselves or not you have children that were killed by their very own government and that's you

2:52:01 And I am absolutely, I have not been this upset for years because I want to know what does it feel to work for one of the most hated groups in this country other than the IRS. As foreign powers take control Right behind all that's traitors plan There attack the law and commandments of our Lord If we wake up today We might still find a way

2:53:07 To shake free from these chains And restore liberty So wave America and throw down this disquiet Just in case you don't remember Let me jog your memory

2:53:58 In a church they called the Waco compound back in April 93. 17 little children, all so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flames How many names can you recall? Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder? Seventeen little children How they deserve to die

2:54:58 Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves. We're right here at the front door of the new rebuilt church memorial for the surviving Branch Davidians in memory of all those that were murdered here Next to me, right here is another memory George Pulliam was an engineer and architect

2:55:36 that drew all the plans and engineering schemes and everything for here, passed away of cancer in 2005. A man I knew well, a man of character class and integrity left a widow two daughters And then a whole bunch of us volunteers also went to help out his widow put a roof on her house paint the house and try to help her out. George Pulliam, passed away February 5th 2005 I'm Catherine Madison and I especially want to thank everyone who contributed to the building out on Mont Carmel. I haven't gotten to send everyone a thank you note The rate that i am going may never but I do thank you

2:56:35 And I am very appreciative of what you've all done. I know that it never would have even started with all you people that came in and took over and made it work. This is what I live for! to the new world order. We shall, we must and we will prevail because were willing to stand up against what's happening God bless the republic and the United States. Thank you. All right. Also held us in 17 little children

2:57:50 How many names can you recall? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves If we become so blind Little seventeen, little children Finally open up your mind I've heard it said the Branch Davidians

2:58:27 Only got what they deserved Yet no one seems to know What laws were broken What was in the warrant They never served Yesterday I sold my TV set Stopped my subscription To the Times To me it's plain Deceitful media Was an accomplice to these crimes Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder why? Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves

2:59:40 Have we become so blind? Will seventeen little children finally open up your mind? Open up your mind.