Fire Survivor, Clive Doyle, Interview [Alex Jones Mike Hanson Mt. Carmel Feb. 20, 2000] [bV6k3FYjaHM]

00:00 I love Mike Hanson Arcos. I am too. There's no church out here, they've kept the money! Yeah

01:16 This is not a church. This is the money we have kept. This is actually a drug lab, yeah. You heard this asking for help? I always wanted to see that what she put up but everybody don't want to download it they're afraid he's got a virus on him. Wyla told me to delete it right away when you see that name on there. It's hard keeping it online. You know Wyla... Where's the drug lab gonna be? You need to let me know what I need to bring. We're painting next week and caulking more, we gotta caulk everything. Gotta finish caulking before you paint it all. No but we start one side as we caulk the other side. Hey where did the... Yeah is this Noah's Ark? Is this a new Noah's Ark? It kinda looks like a Noah's Ark if you go up on there.

02:15 In the modern media Rolodex, this is loving and a Chihuahua is vicious in right wing. Yeah, I heard you say that. What would be the motive for that? You're asking me Peter? For what? You were talking about the pig out there! The point Ed was making is... You were saying Clive That the neighbors said it was a two-month They were saying people planned to be gone for 2 months They came in I think on first day

03:12 Well, see he was there when all the helicopters came in and all that sort of stuff. He heard all the shooting and everything And he said they parked down over the hill a bunch of ATF guys Love officers So he came out his house walked...He's got a big front yard, yeah a big field like us. He sat back off the road so he walked all the way over to the road as he walked toward them They come stomping, they come up out of the ground everywhere surrounding him Figured he was a threat Yeah And uh..he says hey My kids want, you know... He says I'm wanting to get my kids out of the house. Is it over? Is it safe to go, you know, to town now or something?" He says, "...my kids are scared." And they told him to go back to the house pack his bag and be prepared to stay gone for two months. He said hey, I got cattle, I've got animals to feed so they made a whole family move out of the house. Did they pay him in? Paying at all?

04:02 They made his whole family move out of the house and he would have to come to the roadblock up at the other end here every day. And they would escort him with two ATF or FBI agents, escorted him back into the house so that we could feed these animals and then escorted away again. Did they pay as motel bills? Not that I know of. They might've but... Here's a question that Ed was asking Clive and the question is how could know that it was going to be around two months, then they send the helicopters to shoot up the water supply. The water tanks, blue water tanks to shoot up David's room Do you think they meant the raid to be a so-called botched raid? Having helicopters attack having them hit the front door do you think the whole thing was planned or what I think it was planned all the way from the beginning

04:51 They told us in court that they rehearsed this thing in Fort Hood back in December. We got footage of it. They rehearsed it and they were supposed to have it down flat, where they could have 130 people on the floor in handcuffs I think like two minutes flat But they didn't put you in handcuffs for 2 minutes flat? They didn't get in there That's my point Well actually they did get in It got up here This is your fiberglass ladder back here right? Extension ladder But the thing is that why would they shoot up the water supply right as the bullets are going through the front door? From the helicopters. They didn't want us to have any way of resisting, I guess and surviving any length... Well that's right, any length of time. That's the point if they told the neighbor to be prepared to be gone for two months and they come in and write it The first thing they do is shoot up the water supply

05:48 because they're gonna have a raid that day and take everybody to jail thing is it ever but they say well i would you know they tell the public that we just trying to serve illegal war that they never brought with them which none of the guys at least the ones they put on the witness stand in front not a bit of a scene didn't have with him if anybody had all probably one of the guys on helicopter nobody knew what this was the search for Well, you've got a hundred man assault team. The question is why would they have helicopters firing from the back simultaneously as the BATF agents officers near the door? They claimed their orders were to be a diversion. That's what I was going to say to her. A major diversion shooting up your water supply. Well it sounds like they were trying to get you guys that is the Davidians to fire

06:34 to start a firefight like they wanted confrontation. For the media? Well, I mean Catherine Madison and others who were upstairs have said Mike that they saw the helicopters firing first so... Wait a minute! I saw in a movie where Catherine Madison was in front shooting machine guns. Oh man! Made for TV movie? Yeah must be true. Must be true it might as well made for TV movie. Well here's thing they claim we were shooting 50 caliber machine gun at them on first day right yeah this is what if we had that and it was working. We did have a .50 caliber, it wasn't a machine gun. Barrett semi-automatic. And we were told that it wasn't working. It wasn't used on February 28th I was told by several people in there but you know they've stuck to their story that we fired this 50 caliber at them on the first day then why would somebody be shooting tanks with P rifles if you got a fifty caliber? If we fire the fifty caliber at them on April 19

07:30 produce the tanks with the big dings in the side of it or holes, whatever. Well if you guys were so bloodthirsty how could the BATF at 60 yards away back away for several minutes with their hands up? Right I mean if we're a suicide cult that just wanted to go down in a blaze of glory and take as many people as we could with us none of them would have walked off on February 28 We could have massacred them all and then just wait for the big showdown that came after. But there weren't even any bullet holes in their pickups or in their cattle trailers? Well, there was according to the evidence they showed in court. The cattle truck that pulled up at the front door you know as a second one it had a bullet hole through the radiator

08:14 which when you put a dowel into it, it pointed directly up the road at the other cattle truck. It didn't come from an angle to the building and also that driver jumped out left door open and there's a bullet hole through the open door top of the open door into the roof of the cab on the offside from the building which means somebody over there was shooting Right. From the houses or somebody, you know, going berserk over there it wasn't shot from the building. Right. So... Wait are you saying that somebody could have been shooting their own agents? Well yeah that's what he is saying. I'm saying they got bullet holes in some of the vehicles but a lot of them, well several at least not bullet holes we could have shot they're on the far side away from the building Well thats been brought forward in several different films and a lot of evidence

09:06 Even the heavily edited VATF footage shows one of their own officers throwing in some type of grenade, whether it's flashbang or phosphorus or explosive. It probably wouldn't be phosphorus. Yeah. It probably wouldn't have been phosphorous or you would have had a fire but let's say either a flash or a shrapnel grenade they're...a concussion grenade They're throwing these in here and he's shooting into the room That's what appears like. They deny that but ya know Well you know three of those guys have been Clinton bodyguards. No, all four of them were. Three of them were Arkansas State Troopers and the other one was Secret Service or something that was on the campaign trail with him. They were all four. One was wounded by his own guy We didn't shoot any of the guys that went in that window on the far side of the chapel There were two guys who tried to get into this side and ended up dead

09:58 There's one I think that was over hiding behind a vault somewhere over in the field. He ended up dead and one of the guys at the front door ended up dead. But none of those three that go in, you know Linda Thompson said all three of them were dead. According to the testimony in the trial all three of them end up getting out of that room The only damage any of them including the guy that looks like he gets shot in the head He kind of rolls over when the bullets come through the wall. He's not wounded at all. That's his Kevlar helmet Well he's just ducking, you know a reflex action. He just rolls over and he jumps up slides down the ladder and... Yeah I've seen that in the air. Messes his ankle up when it hits the ground That's the only injury we had So he was rolling around in fetal position like a baby basically? Yeah he was yeah

10:47 There was a guy on this side. Like a baby. See there were two ladders, everybody concentrates on the guys that go up the right hand side because they're trying to get in that window and jerking off the curtain you don't see what the other team did when they went over the hump What do they do? They were trying to get into the window on this side The other ones have got shot out Could have been the snapper teams in the house? No, it could have been the helicopters. They're out here shooting up at David's room and that is where they are trying to get into what they thought was David's room Two of these guys I think two end up dead one wounded and he ended rolling off the roof from what i understand That's when they come around and pick him up out of the courtyard Where was Catherine's room at? She was on her back toward the

11:32 So this is David's room and they were shooting this away. They were coming in across, you know... When I saw them anyway they were coming up near the swimming pool, the helicopter. She said she saw them shooting into this part of a building What did you think when you saw helicopters? Well, what was your first reaction? The only time I saw the helicopter in the initial raid Was as I was going down the hall which is out toward a driveway there And I could see right through into the cafeteria and there's a door out You know facing the swimming pool. As I went by I could see this helicopter

12:13 turning away, he was just in the process of turning away and doing a U-turn sort of thing. And when we went to trial in San Antonio they got up and said oh they didn't get any closer than I figured how many hundred meters or something...I says I'm no judge at this, I'm not good judge, I says how far would like 500 meters? They say about a football field or something like that. Well that thing was right out here over my swimming pool! That seems to me a lot closer then five hundred meters! You think the jury believed it? I don't know what the jury... They found you not guilty. Well, I don't think the jury were filled in enough even though they found me not guilty. That's the new American way! Seven or nine? We got rid of those juries too in federal trials now we just have judges but go ahead Clark. Don't be an extremist police sheriff

13:07 I was going to say, I don't know on each individual point that came up that the jury was qualified to know whether they were being lied to or not initially. But a lot of them are pretty upset Having you know after they find out all the skullduggery that went on in the court. Well, yeah That's been the paper all the information that's come out since now You know Sarah Bain has spoken out plenty of times very upset I think it was a second memorial she came up and she brought several other jury people with her and you know leaving that jury

13:51 was a bit of a farce. There were several people that shouldn't have been on that jury. Or they won't? Well, first of all... They're ATF agents! First of all they whittled down 3,000 jurors to 80 people so then they bring them out one by one and question the judge The judge would ask each one I don't want you tell me what religion you are but would you consider yourself mainstream In other words, we don't need your witnesses Harry Krishna. You know what I'm saying? Yeah They weren't gonna let anybody that might be sympathetic to a small group so he said do you consider yourself mainstream religion and So then they had this one young girl that came up and she asked to be dismissed This is what she reasoned. She said well, I've just had a baby. I'm breastfeeding and all nice Oh

14:42 Well, we're only going to be on the jury from 9 until about 4. He says you can squeeze some milk out and put it in a bottle and have a babysitter feed the baby during the day. He says you'll be home by 5 or 5 30 so you can feed her at night." and he made a stay on the jury. Well that was, you might say fine up to a point. Clive he hurt the children? Up to a point... They love their children! He got away with that during the trial but when you sequester a jury to make a major decision they don't want to be locked out for days or weeks yeah You know they're going to rush to decide another girl is going to night school he pulled the same deal on her well we're not gonna be here at night you can still be on the jury

15:21 And then when the trial just... You'll have plenty of time to study. Real early in the trial, a note was apparently handed to the judge came from the jury People on the jury were letting the judge know that the guy who was on the jury had already made his mind up before he heard anything that we were guilty, you know. And so they brought this to the judge instead of dismissing him and saying you can't be on a jury with that kind of an attitude They just kind of gave him a slap on the wrist and said well do you promise not to say that again? Something like that! Okay Judge, you know...and they left him out I mean he's prejudiced

16:05 So you're telling me that... That's in the court record, that your lawyers had a motion to get this guy out of there? Tell us the story. This is important on the record Somebody on the jury note, sent a note to the judge apparently that one of the jury people had already made statements right at the beginning that he felt we were guilty and it hadn't even started. You know what I'm saying? He'd let them know his feelings prior to hearing all the evidence so they informed the judge of this but instead of kicking the guy off the jury and picking someone else You know putting one of the ultimate in his place or something they kept him on just with a kind of a warning you know, uh, you can't be saying that and don't you know, Don't let...you're not supposed to have Opinions without listening and he's supposed to be unbiased. Not..uhh..you're not gonna do this again That sort of thing, you know? Oh yeah okay judge Now what exactly did the jury rule? Not guilty on all the murder charges correct but that there was firearms violations from what I understand

17:09 And this kind of stinks in a way. Our lawyers went to the prosecuting lawyers at some point during the suit, they never informed us it wasn't something that they discussed with us They said to the prosecutors we feel that its only fair you let us at some point write-in self defense into this charges From what I understand, the prosecuting attorney says well we'll let you write self-defense if you let us write in voluntary manslaughter. So they made a deal so when... Without consulting it? Yeah! That's an important point yeah We were not asked were we willing to cut a deal or would we you know and that's not really valid then your attorney has to get your plea. Should but anyway the thing is

18:08 When it came down to separating the jury, from what I understand the judge gave the jury instructions on how to vote. And on the third count which is apparently where they... The third count was having a weapon during the commission of violent crime. Going into trial we were told that was a five or ten year sentence if you're found guilty. Somewhere along the way when they made this deal They put all these extra wording into the third charge And so, when the jury is separated to go make their decision. The judge gives them instructions on how to vote and I think they said there was like 90 pages of instructions on how to vote on the third count some fantastic number of pages anyway and uh you know just bamboozled them to even wade through it let alone understand what they were getting into So

19:02 They came up with not guilty on conspiracy to murder, which was the first charge. Not guilty for everybody on aiding and abetting the murder of federal agents but on the weapons charge because of testimony some of it false some of it may be true uh some of them you know had you know, not evidence necessarily but testimony that they had a gun. Mike Livingston for instance he got three ATF agents get up and say who's the guy that shot me? Well I shot my friend you know Well, in their initial reports on February 28th or afterwards when they're talking to the Texas Rangers. The ones that... One guy says well we got out of the first truck we ran around the north end of the building and we just got around a corner here's three guys standing in the backyard two white guys and a black guy And the black guy was huge

20:00 And when we first, one guy says when I first saw them. I thought they're our guys because they had black on and masks. Oh that's Delta Force! Goggles you know he said I thought they were our guys but the next thing they opened fire at us point blank so one guy gets kind of worried he's got a vest you know, he just gets bruised from the ones that hit the vets. But I think he got one in his neck or ricocheted off of his neck or something So he's got a few wounds and rolls over into ditches over here so when the other two guys jump behind the tractor and they're hiding out they don't get shot One guy said...you know, thought there were their guys He says, The black guy was huge Another guy says Yeah, the black guy was about 5'10

20:43 You know, and none of them saying well we could recognize any of them because they got goggles and stuff on so they said. Did you have goggles and masks? I never saw any of our guys with goggles but...you know..I couldn't say that nobody had. Black uniforms? Any black uniforms? There were people with black pants or maybe it's black T-shirts at home We didn't have uniform per se. Black ski masks No not black ski masks. I mean if you didn't have their type wear no okay So anyway What I've said all along is, okay what they do is nobody can identify who these people are until somewhere during the siege May not may March the 15th or something you know Livingston David sends Livingstone out with a message to FBI and Next thing we know it's in the press Livingstons. The guy that shot this ATF agent He's the big tall living since little bitty guys

21:42 either shorter than me or no higher anyway. So I said, okay they've got a guinea pig now they got the only black guy that comes out of here alive is Livingston and so he's gotta be the black guy that does the shooting you know even though he's small doesn't fit the description. So then you got...I says oh how come they never tried to pin the two white guys? They never identified anybody as being the white guys But they pick on Livingston to be the black guy, you know. And so there was Brad Branch and myself sitting in a courtroom we said to our boys We want you to put us on witness stand So that we can testify that Brad Branch wasn't out I mean Livingstone wasn't out in the backyard We saw him somewhere else in the building and we can vouch for that He wasn't that cheated

22:28 the judge wouldn't allow it. He says we were co-defendants, therefore uh... we couldn't testify on his behalf and what's more if even if you did be impartial I mean to do be partial be self serving but always thought he could put anybody wanted to understand anyway so then our lawyers filed a motion to separate Livingston from the rest of them the trial have a separate trial that would contest that was denied as well most of things yes let me stop for just a second Clive on this issue love You're saying there's three counts. Go back through those... There were several counts beyond that, but everybody had the first three. Some had extra. Okay And the three counts again are what? Like Paul wasn't even there so he has some slightly different counts because of his name is on the receipt for some guns Legal guns He bought them legally and everything it had nothing to do with any altering or anything they were trying to pin on us

23:26 But they, on the strength of it, claimed that they found a check. A single check not a cheque book but a single check lying in the machine shop here after the fire with his account So they said that showed Paul worked in the machine shop and was changing weapons to automatic Okay so the question is this...a side question During the Senate hearings, we saw them hold up a pristine Mac 90. A semi-automatic version of a Russian field weapon We saw them hold this up and say this came out of the fire This is illegal Now there's this huge fire Well one of the guns that they held up They claimed it got out of Mike Schroeder's van which was out in front I can't say whether or not they did or didn't But that was an illegal semi automatic rifle?

24:22 I don't know what was any struck, whether they got it out of his truck or not. But that's what they presented. They had a whole table of unburned guns? Well...I don't know where they got all the unburned guns But I mean last time i checked here in Texas you're allowed to have guns. Sure, you're allowed to have guns but most of the guns we had were burned up So they found you not guilty on the murder? They found everybody not guilty on conspiracy and they found everybody not guilty of murder what the jury did because of various testimony that was given like it said whether true or false The fact that we didn't put a defense on left that testimony standing

24:59 They said, well we've got people saying so and so had a gun or this guy's saying I had a gun. And they came up with guilty on the gun charge and they went through the other charges either guilty or not guilty depending on what they were. So guilty in having a gun in a crime when you were found not guilty of the main crime? Right after their verdict, the judge dismisses it. They're allowed to go Both sides, all the lawyers from both sides run up to the bench and say Judge how can you have people guilty of having a weapon during the commissioning of a crime if they found not guilty of a crime? He says yeah your right that jury messed up. You know I've already dismissed them and if I had to find them all again or bring em back I'd have to instruct them that made a mistake All they could do was change it at all would be to say not guilty so ill just scrap the third count

25:52 But then by Monday... That was the end of argument. Yeah, back them off you know? So then on the Monday the feds had already filed for reinstatement at a third count and the judge turned around changed his mind and on the strength that I think in June or July when he came down to sentencing He gives him 10 years plus 30 so they were guilty of conspiracy guilty of murder guilty of having automatic weapons which was never proved Nobody was... So they're found not guilty, but he says they're guilty. Sure And that's how it stands even in the press I don't even deny that It's so asinine They appealed that Well they did The stupid lawyers didn't appeal their convictions Which i think they should have What they appealed was a sentencing Maybe they weren't stupid Bob maybe the lawyers weren't stupid You know what I mean But They only appealed to sentencing

26:49 And so when it went to the Fifth Circuit in Louisiana, and I read the report. They had three different Fifth Circuit judges that reviewed the case. You can't present any new evidence in an appeal all you can present is whether you feel The trial you had was handled properly. Basically that's what your appealing Is that it wasn't conducted right? So what they reviewed, what they looked at and decided was well Here's got all this ever we've reviewed the evidence. We've reviewed all the testimony and since you guys didn't put on a defense Therefore we have to go with the evidence and the jury found on they on the weight of evidence that

27:29 You were guilty? And now it's going to the Supreme Court. What they suggested was that the judge re-sentence them, in other words... To me that means the sentence he gave them was wrong Something wrong with it Overbearing too much or whatever So they tell him to re-sentence but put back into Smith They don't re-sentence themselves They put it back on Smith and say well its up to your discretion Well here is the question We see this happen Clive we see them do this It's going to the Supreme Court now. What do you think the Supreme Court is gonna do? Well, I'm hoping they'll let them out. You know if they'd have got... Let's say that it got the gun charge if it would have held up at all and it was a five-to-ten year sentence these guys are done seven years already If you're in federal prison you're supposed to be able to... unless you get no good time at all. You know if the judge refuses to let you out on good time normally you can do 80% In other words in eight years they would've been out

28:31 But the way he's given them 40 years, these bodies aren't coming out under normal circumstances. They're going to die in jail. So... They'd be old men you know? But again back to that same point you've made How if they're however found not guilty of conspiracy to commit murder Not guilty of murder and then the third count is Having a weapon during the commission of a crime Having a weapon during the commission of a crime You were found not guilty of crimes Technically they should have been not guilty on the weapons charge And the weapons charge was not that the weapons were illegal, but that they were using them in commission of a crime. Just that they had to use it. It doesn't say you had to use it. They just had a weapon during the commissioning of a crime But like I said... Like armed robbery? It doesn't matter whether he used him or didn't So thats like saying your armed at your house Graham Craddock never... You know, he admitted to them that he had a weapon but he never used them the whole time Well here..but again just to boil down for people who are watching this and if we do air it live

29:31 They're sitting there saying that you're not guilty, but then they are still saying that you are guilty of having a weapon during the commissioning of crime. They would try to look at the evidence or what they considered as testimony presented and their lawyers didn't really put on a defense But thats ridiculous Sure its ridiculous Who were your lawyers? My lawyer was Dan Cogdell out of Houston What do you think of Dan? good lawyer but he told me right off the bat, he wasn't there to defend David. He wasn't there to defend the whole group. He was there as my defense and you got me off but... Who is a so-called lead attorney? Did the judge appoint a lead attorney, lead counsel? Probably if anybody had seniority or leadership it would have been Mike DeGaren Do you think the defense was compromised

30:32 I think they were compromised by the fact that the judge wouldn't allow any money to bring in expert witnesses, you know...to do anything. What do you mean he wouldn't allow any money? He demanded that we all wear suits and ties but he didn't even give us any money to buy suit and tie. All my clothes that were here were burned up and the ones I was wearing when they came out, they cut off with scissors. Did he hold you in contempt for not wearing a suit? No, I did wear a suit but our lawyers requested there be money allotted for us to get experts for defense or bringing in different situations and he refused all of that How much has the government spent? Millions probably

31:16 They brought every little mom and pop gun dealer from all over the United States that had anything to do with it. Whether they sold us a book or whether they sold the gun, what? They brought them all down to testify. Paid their hotel... As if that's something dirty to sell guns at gun shows! I was surprised. I thought gun dealers were kind of like militia with camos and gun belts hanging all over them in a gun show sort of thing. And I'm thinking, whoa you know have all these gun dealers But when they came in their little grandmas and grandpa's trying to put the kids through colleges on you know, what is it like Clive? What is it like to have judge Walter Smith engage In the in the criminal actions that I think are cleared It looks clear to me Alex Jones And I'll put that on record To see the judge Walter Smith engaged this criminal activity and this obstruction of justice in this huge railroad now Clive

32:05 to have him refusing to recuse himself in the civil case where you're trying to take action, get back your good name. You lost your daughter, he lost your friends after all of this. He will not recruit...recuse himself I remember seven months ago when he was all acting like he was gonna be Mr Goody Two-Shoes You said on my radio program and I agreed that you think it's the same old fraud all over again, just more acting. I think it's more of a cover up he is still playing the same role he played seven years ago or six years ago So what do you think of Judge Walter Smith? I don't think much of Judge Walter Smith period but what I can understand

32:43 the media or the courts, whoever has any authority in this country can look at the evidence of this man's performance both in trial and since and say that this guy is unbiased. I don't see how anybody including the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals can say well this guy is not a biased judge." How can they call former Senator John Danforth, an independent counselor and independent investigator when he's appointed by Janet Reno the Attorney General to investigate Janet Reno the Attorney General. Well I think they can call them whatever they like in this country because they tend to screw the English language up pretty good. They take the meaning away from words and you know things don't have the same value as they used to when we were in school Would you say that people out there better watch their words? Well what I'm saying is

33:35 There's a lot of catchphrases, there's a lot of double talk. There is a lot of deception and covering up I don't know what the real meaning of the word independent is in their mind but I know what it means to me and I don't whether he fits the bill. Let's put it that way. Clive Doyle were you guys operating a speed lab out here? No we weren't We were totally against drugs Well I've been told by the Surviving American Veterans like yourself David would have somebody thrown out if they were doing drugs People that had done drugs or having a problem whether it was drinking, smoking or whatever that wanted to come here and make a new start were invited to come. But if the temptation got so great that they couldn't resist they were asked to leave. So drugs are not allowed out here? What had gone on prior to our you might say being in charge here was way back in the 80's mid-80's

34:36 There was a lab, George Roden had invited some former convicts you know former prisoners to come out here and gave them pretty well free reign to do what they liked. And they had pornography ring and drug lab stuff from what I understand when David came here...when we came back in got our property back in 88' some of this stuff was found which we handed over the Sheriff's Department So they, it was pretty clear at least with the locals that you guys were anti-drug. They all knew our position we had a good rapport with the Sheriff's Department. They used to come out here and fish, they'd come out here and trade car parts You know... Use of shooting range

35:19 I don't know about the Sheriff's Department doing that, but we didn't have a shooting range. We had a heap of dirt out there which people would stick tin can on or some blocks of wood and maybe try out shooting a little bit but...we didn't have a shooting range. We didn't have military training camp and all that kind of stuff you hear. Well for me shooting range is a term in the backyard. Well what did i say? We didn't have targets, we didn't have measured distances or anything. And most people... Clive why do you think the government attacked you guys? Clive, why do you think the government... I'm sorry. I think there's a lot of reasons... I believe that the attack was on various levels. I think that the ATF had an agenda.

36:05 this government wants to take over and take away the freedoms of everybody had an agenda. And this was part of their plan, but you know, you hear a lot of stories about what was going on in the ATF with sexual discrimination within the department stories of them being dissolved or reabsorbed into another agency have heard all those stories. But did you ever hear about their clan meeting when they got caught? From what I From our point of view, I believe that like the Bible says there's a devil out there and the devil wants to do away with anybody that is trying to improve their lifestyle. To do better you know... You start studying the Bible and your already under suspicion and suspect and the devil wants to get rid of those kind of people. And unfortunately they are people who lend themselves to bringing that about. When it says the devil goes to make war against the saints

37:02 It could be supernatural, but I think it's done through human beings that allow themselves to be directed in that line. So puppets? Well, thanks, Klai. Appreciate it. Klai I was gonna ask you a question You didn't get a chance to No, Alex turned us into an interview! Oh, you don't have to be out here, Klai It was just a question about on that day one the first day when they came in shooting and

37:41 You had that semi-automatic .50 caliber that you said wasn't working, but... But were there any evidence that the feds were shooting 50 caliber rounds? I mean did you see 50 caliber holes in the building at all because Catherine at one point said when she went out on March 2nd or whatever. There was some kind of like a huge hole in the front door There was some holes in the front door, but I mean they had shotguns. They had no MP5s or whatever they had handgun? I don't know what all they were shooting per se I know what they claim they had Whether that's truthful enough we know there was snipers across the road what they were shooting We don't know right But what you know after the initial raid and and

38:32 adrenaline and kind of calm down and everything, and we're beginning to hear on the radio the stories that they're putting out you know to the media like oh they were shooting all kinds of stuff in 50 caliber. I knew we had a .50 caliber David showed it one night at one of the meetings so i went to couple guys Let's see, a couple of guys that were upstairs where the .50 caliber was supposed to be. I says what are all these stories about us firing the 50 caliber at them? One guy says the .50 caliber was never used he said it was sitting over in a corner or something and never got used. I asked somebody else about it and they says the .50 caliber couldn't have been use because it doesn't work That was two different people telling me that

39:19 And so I accepted them. Well, I got more reason to believe our guys than these lies you know? So like i said if we had it and if it was automatic and if we were shooting at them on the first day Then on the last day they got all these tanks busting through into the bill. Why don't we use it on them? Right and if we were shooting which they claim We were on April 19th, how come they don't play these bug tapes They're supposed to have yeah, they got all these voices from all over building you've only got one bug tape They said that works but yet you there's supposedly picking voices up from upstairs downstairs in the foyer Yeah But they already I think was about

40:01 Three or four weeks ago they already said that was like all spliced together and tampered with, and it's not even a real tape. Even though it is spliced if its only from one bug you're not going to hear voices from all over the building That's right And if its that good then you should have picked up the 200 shots they claim we fired at the tanks That's right My testimony I didn't hear any shooting from inside on April 19th. But did you all put, or make Molotov cocktails? They always talk about it... When you're in this kind of a situation... Tanks running around! War! When you get all these threats like we were being told even before April 19th We don't want anybody in the tower

40:48 If we see anybody in the tower, we'll consider that a threatening gesture. We don't want anybody looking out the windows. They start making demands more and more as they got to the end." Like I say, that develops an attitude. I can remember talking to people in the choppers and saying well if they do come in with tanks like how do you stop a tank for crying out loud? And of course your thinking all kinds of things what could you do stick a crowbar in the trunk. Clive what about them also calling a few days before the final assault or attack where they told ya it wasn't an assault with classic double speak

41:24 Clive, what about them calling and saying you better have fire extinguishers? Do you have any fire extinguishers? That call from what I understand was made...I'm not sure of the date. A few days before, I guess before the last day and Steve Schneider, I believe was on the phone And they asked him did we have any fire extinguishers He didn't even know so he kind of asked somebody to run find out and then he tells them well uh I'm told we got one and the guy is supposed to have said, you know well you better get yourself some fire insurance but that's not a first-hand story other than listening to the tape. Oh it's on the tape? It's on the tape. Clyde, the reason I was asking so much about that .50 caliber on that first day is wasn't it on the first day when that one helicopter was shot down or was...was that on the...that was the first day right? Well all three helicopters claim

42:21 No, there was one that actually... None of them. Well I don't know whether it couldn't fly again. I don't think it was totally crippled but it did take some shots in And the reason I ask that is, if there's any evidence like they used 50 calibers maybe on the other helicopters or something shooting up the building. Or if there's any 50 calibers fire at all... My question is, Is that night vision? Yes You can take it out of night vision because there isn't enough light there Take it out and I'll do this. No no Well let Clive quick because I want to make sure we got something where its not just... Well lemme just... Clives gonna be green on this There Clive now you can think better That felt great! 28's! Thank you, you sell better without them

43:00 February 28th, I filmed a little green. Okay hold it. If you do a bright flash you kind of ruin it don't ya? Yeah well its not film its just tapes and digital tomorrow. Talk Clive we've got the light on here! I just want to get this question. You remember Mario Boykin the pizza shop guy from Austin? A buddy of his is the maintenance chief, or was at that time a maintenance chief for those helicopters out of Fort Hood. And I think it was the day after... one or two days after when they assaulted a place here, Mario went up to Fort Hood and talked to this guy

43:41 And the guy pointed out a .50 caliber hole in that helicopter. And Mario told me that he stuck his finger into that hole and recognized it as being like a 50-caliber size. So, I was curious if they even shot their own helicopter down? I couldn't vouch for that. They maintained during trial we'd shot at helicopters and its quite possible some of them did Well, I would have if they were shooting at my house But...I've seen some footage, a friend in Houston showed us some footage that he had of where these helicopters are flying and they're coming in approaching the place. And then it has this footage where they land in a field out here somewhere I guess it was down over the hill near this neighbor's house and they get out point right at the hole and I said there is something wrong with this footage They know exactly where the holes are before they even get out. No kidding! Is this their second time?

44:39 It almost looks like it was staged for the camera. They all get out of the helicopter, oh look! That makes sense. They didn't actually shoot the helicopter down but they put holes in it and .50 caliber holes just so they could say that y'all had a 50 caliber machine gun. punch three or four holes in there, 50 caliber holes aren't they? You got a 50 caliber crowbar you got 50 caliber holes. Used to do that with pencil I was in the army used to do that with a pencil it's 30 caliber. Well Clive if you said earlier yeah they want to burn this down again they're gonna have some trouble aren't they? Yeah we'd even had trouble. With all that no-burn

45:28 Tell ya I got said if God wants it to burn It'll burn no matter where it's made of brick. Amen If God doesn't want it to burn don't know what they do it won't but amen That's what you have to put your trust in You know the final bottom line is as whether you believe, you know in god or not There's a question in the Bible says, you know our statement I should say that says, uh, you know if the builders build and Without God on their side, then they build in vain. Yeah So that's one reason we need to be considerate of how we act and what? Talk about and everything else while we're in there is a special place You know it's not just any old building sort of thing so anyway

46:16 Did we answer your question? Yes, I believe so. Clive...I think that's the answer actually is they put those holes there themselves Well, I'm not swearing to you but my first question on seeing the footage was There's something wrong with this picture These guys know where every hole is when they're just jumping out like they've just landed and this is the first time They got out of the plane You may know you've taken some shots, but you're going to have to look for them. Oh! That's where we got hit. This is a staged deal just for the camera. They so happen to have a camera there when they landed. Now, Claude, they don't lie...

46:59 I don't know, maybe they've been lying so much that it feels like standing up. Yeah. You know all their focus is... After a while if you lie... I fell off They had a church up the front gate when i first came. I was doing a job in there one day and the ladder slipped out from under me and the ladder fell down and I landed on my back on top of the ladder knock the wind out of me. So I was laying there for quite a while before it could get up and I'm looking at the ceiling, and all of a sudden my brain just kind of flipped over to where the ceiling looked like the floor everything looked like it was the right way up only the lights were coming up out of the floor and the pews are all along the ceiling you know just laying there kind of dazed And maybe that's the way they view things from a different perspective That's good Clive thanks Okay

47:48 Right after the raid, when ATF and everybody are giving this press conference and everything they're talking about how we ambushed them and then we were all at the window shooting and all that. And I'm going wow! You know that's not the truth so I go up to my room or I've been in my room and I go back to my room and my rooms intact there is no bullet hole in my room at all mine was a third window from the north end And so I'm going, whew! You know. At least the can say Clive Dover's in his room shooting at the ATF coming in because I got no bullet holes there is no reaction to any firing on my part see? So this goes on all during the speed I'm taking

48:26 This is evidence. This is good evidence, you know? My room's not shut up and my glass number... Lo and behold just before the last, maybe a week before the last they're clearing it Every time we'd send somebody out they punished us by tearing up cars or tearing down fences Throwing a flashbang Whatever So They come along one day with tanks bulldozing all trees down And I had a tree right outside my window. They bulldoze that tree and the branch comes right through the window, there goes my evidence that there was no shooting on February 28th because the glass is all smashed up you know? Now Clive what did you think when they were told a few minutes before they got here that hey somebody's coming out to search the house or the BATF or the police or something What do you think was going to happen if they did come out her for a search

49:15 Initially? Yes. I really didn't know, we knew that we were being watched from across the road for about six weeks before the raid Early in January these guys moved into the house and they start acting strange right from the start. I mean, they'd be shooting out in the backyard When we tried to go friendly They wouldn't let us in the house and all kinds of weird stuff going so we were suspicious But I never heard David or anyone else say hey the ATF watching. We knew somebody was watching us, but we thought maybe it was immigration people because we had people from all over the world here and we figured they're suspicious you know they're watching to see who's...who we got here so there's no big deal but on February 28th from what I read I don't..I didn't remember that people tell me it was drizzling or it was raining that day all I can remember is being in my room we'd already had breakfast now back in my room

50:19 And all of a sudden I hear, a lot of people out here in the cafeteria. What's going on? Seems to be a lot of people out there and we've already eaten so what's the deal?" So i go in there to find out what was going on and somebody says, hey we just got word that somebody is coming It's gonna be some kind of raid or whatever... At about that time David walked in from this side He'd come down the hall, come into the cafeteria from this other side and basically confirmed it he says We just heard that there's a whole bunch of some kind of agents coming and he says, I want everybody to stay cool. Go back to your rooms just be calm." He said,"I'll go down the front door and talk them see what they want and you know try to talk them". So i went back to my room

51:06 I heard him walk down the hall, heard him open the front door and next thing he's yelling hey wait a minute there are women and children here you know let's talk about this. And all hell breaks loose on me and shots coming in the front door like crazy! My initial reaction was run down the hall because i figured it was going to be blood and guts everywhere you know massacre and I don't even get about oh about level with where we are, about halfway down the hall. And Perry Jones is crawling up the hall screaming that he's been shot! He'd gone to the front door with David and he's telling me David has been shot so I'm trying to comfort him, he's laying on the floor and screaming...and uh..I said hang in there Perry because i'm thinking there's all these other people dead inside the front door or whatever So I go running down there and low and behold there was no one inside No one in the foyer area at all. So I run back to Perry and try to help him

51:59 and uh... so on the tape as we see the b a p f from outside firing incessantly you guys are just going around trying to look for people that have been shot let's see i mean, you guys aren't lining the windows shooting like television shows I mean like made-for-tv movies? The movies aren't real? There've been alot more than four dead twenty wounded if everybody had been there with guns automatic weapons shooting at them but no thats not the case I'd say most people were taken by surprise. Even though you're initially told somebody's coming, you don't realize that it was going to be a bloody mess You know what I'm saying? Maybe have a little trepidation Well... Are they gonna haul us all outside or are we all going to jail What's the procedure? We didn't know what was gonna happen But David more or less said everybody stay calm and I'll go down and talk to him So he figured out He'll handle it And so

52:52 Next thing we know all this shooting at the front door people upstairs of course are hearing the shooting from helicopters and So like I say, I went running down a fine Perry shot crawled just dragging himself up punish Hands and knees sort of thing up the hallway. I end up helping him to bed by the time I put him in Abed on this side of the long hallway on in the men's dorm area Somebody says Winston's dead. That's always here I said, well he's up in his room. So i go up there and as I get up to that end where his room is... ...I could hear water running! That's strange what's that? so when I get to his door and look in he's laying on the floor a pool of blood and water and his windows all shattered He had these water tanks out on it on a platform at the back

53:45 and they were completely blocking his windows, not like you could see in or he could see out. These big plastic water tanks were right up against these windows but what the helicopters had done is shot into the riddled all the water tanks and him... He was sitting on the other side of it and got a bullet in the head Was there any water coming in? Oh yeah, it was all over the floor. The carpet was soaked with blood and water And of course I'm trying to feel for a pulse He's a pretty big black guy from England Had a real thick neck So I'm thinking Is it this that I can't find a pulse or is he really dead you know Where was the bullet hole on his head? Uh...I don't remember exactly All I remember is laying there You know so uh

54:32 How many holes would you estimate? I mean a lot of holes or just a few holes in the water tanks. Oh there was a lot, in fact one day during the siege uh...I was going by the doorway there and I looked in and Greg sitting he'd gone upstairs and got all the boys little plastic toy soldiers, little plastic men and that And he's sitting there with a little dinky miniature blowtorch thing, trying to melt the plastic men to plug up the holes in the water tank. Because we were going try and get the pump going again and maybe fill them up with water." I says, you're wasting your time Greg. He says what do you mean? Well, you're filling all of the holes on the window side on the inside but they are riddled on the other side too! You know unless your gonna go out and expose yourself and fill them up

55:17 It's still going to leak out the other side. Now what angle were the holes coming in? They were coming down an angle, high on the outside and low on the inside There is nothing out there that you know can't say well there was a guy in a big building across the alley shooting down into your room Because there is nothing but... Yeah it's sky Not even the snipers up there, I don't believe could have done it. Because it was coming at a... They're at the same level that house down there? Right! That's what I'm saying It would have to be from playing with helicopters or something So you were expecting to be right on the lawn and having them search through your stuff You didn't do that No, like I said this was a couple of days later when the arrangement was we'd all go out We'd all come out together

55:56 And so I went down the kitchen here and packed a lunch, paper bag lunch for my daughter and me. And I'm thinking we'll all just go out and sit on the lawn and they'll come in here search the building get whatever they come to get and when their through will all come back in! That's how stupid it was... naive But as time wore on and more people came out, they were all going to jail. You're seeing pictures on the TV of them in their orange suits being arraigned in court and all that kind of stuff... This is not meant to be simplified up for you. What about later when branch of it would try to come out and get papers or documents or give things to the federal government?

56:38 I'd say the last week before the fire. So even when the feds... If somebody come out on the roof, if they come out a window or doorway for whatever reason including Steve Schneider who had already arranged over the phones to come out and they were going to bring some kind of stuff in. I don't know whether it was supplies for the typewriter or what, but they were bringing something in a tank and pulled up out there on the driveway he came out front door walked over to them gave him his stuff turned around got just about open the front door and lobbed these two flashbangs at him scared the daylights outta me David Jones got lobbed at we were out in the gym one day digging a hole

57:16 potty hole, you know. For dead? No no no for waste. Oh okay So we could hear them lobbing these things out just outside the wall it was kind of scary to hear them even though they were on the other side of the wall Flash bang grenades Well I assumed that would sound like the same kind of noise We didn't see those ones but like i heard Pablo Cohen got flashbangs, David Jones got flashbangs, Steve Schneider got flashbangs. So they would call you out to give you information or give you milk and throw flashbangs? Well Steve went out on what you might say an official agreed upon rendezvous that particular day some of the other guys might have just stepped up

58:03 for whatever reason. I'm sure you guys called to the negotiators and brought that up, what did they say when you said hey you told us come out your throwing grenades at us? I don't remember all the conversations back and forth most times when you brought any thing to their attention, to the negotiators' attention. They would disassociate themselves well you know we tell you things in good faith and uh... you know where the good guys but the tactical team we got no control over them and they just do whatever they want to do Good cop bad cop yeah so Do you think it was good cop bad cop psychology or real? I think some of the negotiators genuinely were upset that

58:47 they were losing credibility because of the actions of the people in the tanks and so forth. I think, you know one was hurting the other's efforts. So do you think that negotiators and troops out here actually had a little bit of feud going or you don't know? Yeah i think there is certain amount of rivalry. You know they like to throw up at David when we didn't come out as agreed early into peace they made this accusation, well you're a liar. You know the man of your word you can't be trusted and on one of the tapes David brings up he says, well you promised

59:26 certain things the other day and now it's different or you know, you didn't come through for us. Well well you gotta understand we're just peons You know We're just here doing the negotiating but we've got bosses over us making decisions. Well then how can we make a deal with you? And then uh... They've got bosses in Washington that overrule them and you just have to understand we really don't have a whole lot of power." And David says,"Well why is it that you can't understand I've got a boss upstairs?" that sometimes overrules, you know something we've agreed on yesterday. He may say no why can't you understand that I've got a higher up person that i gotta answer to and yet you know you want to call me a liar? You want to say well I'm not a man of my word but you can cop out when your promises don't come by because well we got people over us you know we're just... We've heard about them

1:00:19 the hostage rescue teams, the military people mooning and flashing you guys. Was that one reason you guys didn't... It certainly develops an attitude I mean everything even though things may or may not I don't know people's hearts but like at one point the people from the Methodist home where they were taking all our kids They sent a video in supposedly to show us how well they were treating our kids and you got the TV blaring. Kids have got a ice cream and a coke and you know watching videos in there And they're just bouncing off the furniture like they having a sugar high You know and most of the mothers that saw it were pretty upset again. That is not the way we taught our children to behave It's not that we wouldn't give them an ice cream or something I drink, you know from time to time But it wasn't their steady diet but they thought they'll be good to the kids by just loading him up with sugar and stuff and Like I said

1:01:20 One of the comments I heard was, this is sad. You know? This is... you wouldn't think some of these kids just saw their mother shot or saw some of their friends wounded a few days before and here they are, thanking for the camera and all this kind of stuff And like I said The people that made the video may have had good intentions but it was used It had a negative effect, we'll say on us. A lot of the parents that still had children and they were hesitant about wanting to send them out to this kind of situation. The same with when you made reference to the mooning and giving the finger and making threats and all it develops in attitude in people that are dealing with it.

1:02:06 monsters or these are people that who wants to give their kids... Mike you're yelling as loud as you possibly could. So, every situation creates and your moods go up and down I mean you're going through rationed food you have to go the bathroom on a bucket and empty it dig a hole in there or whatever We were used to, you might say primitive conditions compared to some people. But that was even a harder thing to have to deal with for 51 days and like I say everything can make you have an attitude And so...you know..I just from what I remember of peoples comments and stuff like that they were not too respectful You might say by the time you get through the 51 day they don't have much

1:03:02 A bad hair day. Faith and confidence, trust in the FBI. Yeah I mean a bad hair day pretty crazy Well like i said we were used to hardship The hardship was bothering us in a way but it wasn't having the desired effect that they wanted to have In other words several people survived an came out I know lost 25-30 pounds including myself in weight just from lack of water and food because we were on rations we weren't mad because we were hungry, sort of thing. We were more upset with the attitudes that were coming across the phones or loudspeakers things like that...the fact they weren't operating in good faith and plus you know we're watching them every day get up and do these media briefings 10 o'clock every morning at the convention center and they just lying or painting a picture that's just making us look like cooks

1:04:02 And so, you know... I don't have much respect. Bob, did you ever stop and think that while this is going on it's setting the stage for hey the government is good we go raid bad people We take them out They're kooks You're on our side We are the winning team Kind of like a Super Bowl mentality nationwide for 51 days What I see with law enforcement and goverment agents especially on the federal level Is that they want to be They want to come across as the good guy. They want to be... The public, to believe in them makes their job easier but in all reality the bottom line is they don't give a damn what you think But they would like you to think that they're good guys So if they'll go through a certain amount of subterfuge and lying and painting the other guy bad To make themselves look good They'd like you to accept that image but if you don't they really don't care They're going to do what they are doing anyway

1:05:02 Well the big thing is they want to get local support because Clive, in the last seven years we're coming up on seven years. Coming up on April 19th here in 2000 I've talked with so many SWAT team police military government agents talked them across the board on the radio and off-the-air they say that starting seven years ago Waco was the kickoff for merging the military and the police. What's the excuse? Just like Reagan and Brady, all them people getting wounded was enough to start all this gun legislation. Things like that. What is gun control about? Why do powerful governments always seek to disarm the population? Because they don't want a population that can fight back or protect themselves They want subdued people, they want people who will do what they're told Be productive slaves basically

1:05:55 and they're willing to give you the football game on a Sunday, that kind of thing as partial reward. I mean you take the Roman Empire... you know, the worse it got and the more dictatorial it got and the less their money was worth anything. They're coming up with all these games in the Coliseum blood sports to keep people preoccupied or we'll say diverted from real issues. And we see that happening today don't we? Stay tuned right here for more classics on this channel here Hanson Archives but to fund this station I'm offering

1:08:13 I said, right here. Yes ma'am, all the way around. All the way around the front. That would be a good thing. Huh? Oh Lord! I don't know...

1:09:00 I've got to take the clock off on somebody. What do you mean unskilled labor? I saw a few of them. Huh?

1:10:45 Come on Elmo, get out of the way. Let's go! Come here!

1:12:51 fire nails and a concrete? no we uh... it just happened to have a few on you got everything. if I didn't have them, I wouldn't be making a living. the snow barn stuff? they took a dipstick, started cutting through half an inch of grass, put him in a glare and sawed. salt saline solution

1:14:09 Just got our new desk for you. The Chinese are now saying, well we think that the test that requires a fully automatic weapons fire. I've got raw footage. It's so bad.

1:15:43 One cop takes his ski mask off and says, that's it I'm not with you guys. Yeah, but that was bad. No no, I mean you could. Have you seen Braveheart? And then this one yeah, I know somebody's working on it with him

1:17:10 Yeah, no it's all pure you know fight together There is a movie on the running on HBO right now called Existence. It's about Australia and its uh... martial law gets declared and power moves to war power absolute power What are you doing? Great movie It's coming down. It's real scary because it is very real. Very real. Check out the other one I wanted to make.

1:18:11 You can see the no burn. We put a towel in it and throw it into the fire for like minutes on end, and just charge it. And we also got two gallons of this. That's really good. I'll try to avoid giving you a complete answer. This is Alex. Okay, let's not! I brought the original copies. How do we get some copies out of him? This is the first weekend for it. Yes. Hold on a second...

1:21:14 It's not up on InfoWars yet. Mike! It's not on InfoWars yet. You'll find somewhere like RebuildtheChurch.com, go to the Branch of Trafficking and Trusting Discussion Board. But the discussion board has moved so it will tell you where to go. That's definitely true. A little sarcastic, you got the sharp T's but not too many it's not huge very noticeable and you know what the sarcasm is. Defiance a large lowercase letter especially K anywhere in the writing this high buckle K is often referred to as the great balcony. A defiant person resists others authority seen as resentful until what's bigger than dying again?

1:18:11 You can see the no burn. We put a towel in it and throw it into the fire for like minutes on end, and just charge it. And we also got two gallons of this. That's really good. I'll try to avoid giving you a complete answer. This is Alex. Okay, let's not! I brought the original copies. How do we get some copies out of him? This is the first weekend for it. Yes. Hold on a second...

1:21:14 It's not up on InfoWars yet. Mike! It's not on InfoWars yet. You'll find somewhere like RebuildtheChurch.com, go to the Branch of Trafficking and Trusting Discussion Board. But the discussion board has moved so it will tell you where to go. That's definitely true. A little sarcastic, you got the sharp T's but not too many it's not huge very noticeable and you know what the sarcasm is. Defiance a large lowercase letter especially K anywhere in the writing this high buckle K is often referred to as the great balcony. A defiant person resists others authority seen as resentful until what's bigger than dying again?

1:22:04 Alex, you never resist authority. Very strong T-bars which is great high self esteem reveals confidence ambition the ability to plan ahead high goals high personal expectations and an overall good self image this is the key to personal success Persistence, strokes that double back over you at one key that did it. An N toward the right usually located in the T and E after this person has a quality of not giving up when confronted with temporary setbacks he will persist until he completes the task Self-conscious when the second hump is higher than the first person has a fear of being ridiculed and tends to worry what others might think when around strangers But I guess you're so confident that it doesn't matter well not but it may affect you Well, no, I mean that issue. I'll have a bunch of beer and I'll just say screw it. I'm going over exactly

1:22:55 That's weird. Shown by a backward cross T-bar, this guy is self critical. This person signifies the need to punish oneself. Hold on baby! The need to punish oneself. The t bar shows sarcasm. The writer says he put up on a sarcastic court himself and again strong sex drive you go way down into the other line of 20 year lives. Variety in life physical drives are strong indeed fighting lots of energy and imagination into the physical realm Wow, well thanks. That's cool. I like that. Now I'm glad. Let's see it. Yeah, I mean buildings don't blow out. A truck bomb and a truck bomb couldn't have done that with fuel oil. Oh yeah the building was blown out! That's what i wanted to tell you. The building went out. The building was blown out they FBI confiscated all surveillance cameras they confiscated the seismographs when copies got out first two separate explosions at the burgeoning out front first small and big ones inside actually our second explosion is after the chain of explosions uh Jane Graham ran the HUD

1:24:00 On what the fifth floor and Jane Graham. I saw guys planning what she said were large sticks of gray butter that morning down in there They wanted to demolish the whole thing, but it didn't work. That's why they had to help them go back and go... The unexploded bombs! The local media know that they weren't part of it. They're removing unexploaded various sophisticated bombs right now! I've got a video out, America's Shored by Design in it We've got the newscast where they are taking the bombs out I mean, give me a break.

1:24:50 God bless the Republic! Death to New World Order!!!