39: Hard Pass

00:02 Mo Facts with Adam Curry for June 2nd, 2020. This is episode number 39. A new month, but the crazy has just increased. How you doing, Mo? I'm doing good, Adam. How about yourself? Well, I'm okay. I'll be honest with you. It's a little unsettling, not so much as to what's happening, but why it's happening. And we're talking, of course, about this day, the 2nd of June, 2020. We've got, I don't know if it's happening tonight, but we've had a couple of days of weird demonstrations/slash riots all over the country, all over the country, all over the world.

00:41 Yeah, all over the world. I mean, I could, it was mind-boggling to see thousands of people on the dam in Amsterdam. It's just, and, and, you know, and they're, they're protesting racism in America. It's fantastic to watch what is happening. And I'm so glad that we get to talk because, man, this, uh, this has just been a weird one. How about you? I mean, what, what, uh, what you feeling? I'm fine, but dealing with the people, I was in a situation where I had to deal with people that I normally don't have to deal with on a daily basis, and that is being family.

01:22 Yeah. And it's just shocking how indoctrinated they are by the media. And it's a large part a reason why we do this show. Yeah. But I was just surprised. I mean, it was a family gathering. I was like, just actually, I was drained from channeling their emotional unrest. Yeah. Well, that's, that's, yeah, that's probably very, I have that too, I guess. Because, you know, I look at this stuff and, you know, I see so much of the obvious, but there's a lot of a lot of power in the machine that are really pushing this all one way.

02:08 And there's a lot of groups that are participating in this and taking advantage of it. And this is not something that even the Mo Facts show with Adam Curry cannot address everything that's happening. It's not a one for one, one and done. I mean, this is kind of the culmination of where this show has been going for, well, for months now. And it's really the topics have gone right along with the current events. It's just insane to see how it's all flowed together. Right. And I had a lot of people contact me in like past shows. Like, oh, it's so relevant now. One being white privilege, the other one being white fragility.

02:52 Yeah, that's the big one. The white fragility is definitely one, which was, what was that, episode 24. 24, something like that. Yeah, there's a lot of good. 13 and 24 are the most things, most, the two I've been contacted the most this week about. And also, I would say white supremacy is now that was one of the earlier ones. We did a whole white supremacy overview, didn't we? Yes. I think that was 13. I mean, that was white privilege and white supremacy. All that was rolled up in one show. But yeah, we're not going to get into the blow-by-blow of what's going on at the moment, but the show topic for today,

03:38 I think we can look at it through the lens of what's going on right now. All right. Well, let's crank up the wheel. Let's see what's going on in our fabulous wheel of topics. Where it stops, nobody knows, but of course, no one really does know. And let's see today's topic will be. Passing. She was passing for white. Passing. Yes. Well, can I just, I don't know if this is where you want to start, but just from my own experience when Minneapolis started and when the riots started and I looked at what the news media was calling black

04:18 protesters, I'm like, yeah, but I know what a Somali looks like. And you can tell, you know, it may be a little bit off, maybe a country over, but I'm like, hold on a second, what's going on here? And it didn't take long just to look at, you know, just a couple of searches to find out the huge Somali population, but gangs and all kinds of stuff is going on in Minneapolis. I know it's been there, but it never really popped to the front of national news. It sure did now, though. And I'm seeing a lot of things in this whole protest thing

04:58 about home. who's in the protest or slash riots. It depends on what time it is. But it's labeled as the black protest. Right. Everything is black, black. And on this show, I've tried to warn people of how they lump everything into black, even to the point where they'll bring up, they'll be talking about the black unrest. So, you know, the black people are upset, the black people are upset, and they'll show the screen. And it's mostly white people or non, what we classify as black in America.

05:42 We call ADOS here. That's what they're trying to like this hodgepodge, like put it all together into, and we're going to take the blame for it. That's the bottom line. When this is all over, said and done, we're going to take the blame for it. Like we did with Corona, like we did with everything else. But today's show is a conversation we had, I believe, on 37. Okay. It was one of our longest back and forth where we didn't quite see eye to eye. And what I want to do is get into the genesis of that conversation. And then we can go from there just through the show.

06:26 And honestly, I don't know where this conversation is really going to go. I have clips. I don't really have a storyline per se. I just want to really cover what passing is, what black is, what's not black, why don't people want to be black? Well, if I can take it from there. Yeah, if I can just share a personal thing where, you know, this, this went down on Thursday or whatever it was. And I sent you a text and I said, dude, this is Somalis. What the hell is going on? And your reply was really, for me, tone-setting and quite telling. I think you literally said, yeah, now you know why it's messed up to be called black

07:12 because you just get lumped in. One of many hosts of reasons why to be called obvious. Yeah, but no, yeah, you're right because anything with brown skin is black. And in this show, that's not necessarily qualifier as well. Well, certainly not in context of what. And I always have to remind myself: okay, here's what people are seeing. Here's what they've been told. Here's what they believe in. And so no doubt that when the media is talking about black, African-American, et cetera, I think they specifically mean ADOS

07:57 because of Black Lives Matters and the 400-year virus and all the different memes I've seen bandied about right now. So that's what they mean, but that's not always what you're seeing or what it is. Of course not. And truth be told, in New York, there's a very small ADOS population as well. Oh, yeah. Which has been epicenter of the protests slash riots, not just talking about Minneapolis. So you got the fact that as well. But I guess you want to get into the clip that spurred this

08:37 spiritual back and forth between me and me and you. Okay. And this was from the Karen Hunter show. Yes. Reparations. What does reparations look like, Nicole Hannah Jones? Is it going to happen? Okay, those are two different questions. This is what I'll say. I think the question of what reparations looks like is not that challenging, right? Reparations looks like a cash payment to those who can trace ancestry. I mean, Sandy Darity, whom you interviewed for your piece, is kind of the chief economist and thinker on this. If you can trace a descendant back to American slavery, you qualify for reparations and you can prove that 10 years prior to the discussion of the reparations bill, you actually lived as a black person.

09:25 Ah, yeah. I was wondering, like, what did we talk about for so long? Yeah, it was the 10-year rule. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was very interesting. I don't know if we really disagreed. I think you got me to a place where I was like, okay. Not disagree, but I enjoyed the conversation so much. I was like, this should be a broader topic. Right, right. Yeah. Or, you know, a full conversation. Let's say that. And we got interrupted by. by Joe Biden. That's right. You're so right. It slid back one week, but I didn't want to lose the fervor from the conversation because

10:06 I don't think it should have been limited just to 10 minutes. That's this topic is so broad because it's who is black? When do you stop becoming black? And I think it lends to now why are black people treated the way they are. And I always use this so-called quote-unquote. And I want to be clear. I'm not distancing myself from my lineage. And that's the real rub. I'm distancing myself from a title that somebody else created for my lineage. That's the problem. That's the problem I have with it. It's like, what is my past?

10:47 Let me decide what my past is and how I identify. But no, as you seen, as you pointed out with the riots, like we're going to merge, and we're going to merge everybody into this one group. We've seen this with people of color, aka colored people. Color people. Right. Sorry, I missed my cue. I got to work on that. It's been a while. Yes. But yeah, that's what they're doing. So, what I want to do is really go down that rabbit hole of seeing where a person separates themselves from a lineage and what is the reasoning for that. Okay. But before we get into that, I want to get into

11:30 African American or black, and what's the right term? Since we've been here in America, we've had all these different names for ourselves, either thrust upon us or again, or ones we chose from colored to Negro to Afro-American to black to African-American. You know, there's the problematic words of Spanish and Portuguese colonialism and their slave trade. So the blacks were called Negroes in both languages, so they were just called blacks. So we use the word Negro. If you say colored people, that smacks of the 40s. Black power means the saving race

12:10 of our United States. The late 50s, early 60s, civil rights activists on the more radical end were starting to say, we are not colored people. We're not Negroes. We are black. They wanted to go all the way. And that same way thing, we're not white. So they really planted a really strong flag for the Black Power movement, the Black Panthers, the Black Arts Movement, and the song. Jesse Jackson proclaimed one day in the late 80s, we are now going to call ourselves African American. And a lot of people just thought, well, who are they to decide what we're going to call ourselves now? And it felt at first like a step backwards because black really was a big catch-all, but also so powerful.

12:58 Yeah, powerful because we went through this because of black is not always a positive color. No. Negative power. True, but the reason that they chose black is that's the furthest thing you can get from being white. And it was seen as a move of power. And that's where black power came from. And like you said, in the late 60s, it really cropped up. Now, I had to, I said this before on the show. I asked my mom, like, and I even asked her this weekend said, I saw her again, like, mom, when did you start becoming black?

13:36 Because he, as he stated, a lot of the names were forced upon us. So black was the first one we really chose for ourselves. But black is nothing but Negro. Hold on. Hold on. Wasn't that Jesse Jackson who chose that? No, he chose African American. And that was right, right, right, right. That was when we, you know, we've arrived and you know, we were going to be African American now. And that smacks of plans that come of mass immigration from Africa. So that was a, I think that was a preemptive move by whoever he was talking to to say, we have a lot of Africans coming into the country soon.

14:20 So let's go to African American. It's your stuck, though. It became kind of like the politically correct way to say it. It stuck because it became a, you know, like how the media referred to us, but we never stopped calling ourselves black. But on all the documentation, I mean, and all the, you know, whenever you filled out anything, it started showing up as African American. Oh, so do you recall a time when it was. when it said something else? Yeah, it used to say black of non-Hispanic descent. Right, right, right, right. I remember as a kid when we used to take like standardized tests, you would have to fill in the bubble.

15:02 And it was like, it was a black of non-Hispanic descent, and then it went to African-American. Right. So this is why we clung to black and to say that we're a different people. Now, is that a lineage? Is that a the problem I have with black is that's a color? Yeah. And that's an adjective. It's not, it's not a noun. Right, which, which, which is why you liked Ados until that got hijacked. Right, because it was straight to the point. Like, what are you, Ados? American descendant slave.

15:38 It says, where my people are from, not denying their original origin, but to say this is where this is specific to our lineage. And it's, it quite, it, the whole point of this show is not about color, it's about lineage. And passing is really you're separating yourself from your lineage. And that's why I was so triggered and other people are so triggered by it is the denial of your blood. Right. That is very, very disrespectful. Right, right, right. Which is which is how we came upon the uh, you have to have lived at least 10 years as a black person.

16:23 Otherwise, it's just so crazy. You know, it's crazy that that would happen, but we have so many examples of blacks passing and taking advantage of it. And I guess that's where the rub comes in. It's a big rub. And we're going to go, we're going to get into all of that. But I want to go to a show. I mean, I clip from not last show, but show 38. And this is Dr. Jose Pamenta Paiminete Bay. He speaks on black ethnicity and African American.

17:02 This individual is calling himself white. We're going to react and call ourselves black because we're the opposite. Not really understanding that we're not exactly taking a step in the right direction because now, as I like to say, given all the cult, the linguistic and cultural baggage of black, you are trying to push an elephant uphill on roller skates. You're trying to turn a negative into a positive. Something just hit me as I'm listening to this. Why is it called Black Lives Matter and not African American Lives Matter?

17:46 Oh, just like you said, it's global. It's to tie in the global effect, which if you know that organization, that's why you see across the world people saying black lives matter. But as Dr. Bay said, we're being reactive. And as we ended last show with the seven habits of highly affected people, the first habit is being proactive. So us being black is, okay, white is defined.

18:27 Like this is white. This is exclusive, which white is nothing, to be honest with you. And the definition of how white is used is pure. That's right. Yes. But everything else is unpure. And now it's like, what level of unpurity? I mean, what's your level of contamination? Right, right, right, right. So that's the problem I have with the term black. And it's not just me because there is a groundswell of different quote-unquote black people trying to find their lineage, whether it be the Moors or

19:09 the Hebrew Israelites or, you know, Pan-Africanists. These, all of these groups are trying to find a lineage, not a color. So it's not just me. I don't think black is broad enough to capture who we really are. No, absolutely. Also, I mean, you know, you know, my personal views. How about American? That kind of works for me. How about American male? Yeah, that would work for me. Right. But it's just this continuous identification, which, you know, I. get, I get it. I can't really feel it, but I fucking get it how annoying that is.

19:50 And let me speak to that point right quick. And that's the that was the pushback against ADOS. It's like, how do you want to be American? Why do you want to be American? It's like, from the claim to say that 400 years of our ancestors labor helped build this country, I think we have a vested interest in this country. But what we have to do is remove the impedance that we receive from actually truly being an American. And where does that impedance come from? Our skin color. Right, but it's the impede, the impedance is others rejecting that or impeding that.

20:33 Right. It's real. And not, I mean, some of it is mentally on our part. And then other things that we've seen how it played out in that video, you know, of the cop killing that black man. That's real. I mean, no, he really died. That's for sure. Right. So when you see that, it triggers a lot of people. But what you have to say is you can't let somebody else define who you are. That's the problem. We have to define ourselves. And we get a lot of impede, you know, pushback from

21:15 internal and external. I just want to say one thing. And one day maybe that'll be something to look at. But the cop, the white cop, also got also got defined. Now, he was defined by his action, but this is now burned into the way this was visual. The visual itself is going to have long, long, long-lasting psychological effects. Can I tell you what that visual means to me? I want to share that with you. Please. What I witnessed there,

22:00 two things. One, does anybody realize he capernick kneeled on that man's neck? Yeah. And now it's a trending thing to do. It's like the same, the same movement or position is being interpreted two totally different ways, considering how you look at it. Right. So, yes, obviously, I've seen that. I mean, and it's either very sophisticated, but it's very confusing how that works. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt.

22:41 It's very, no, no, no. I'm glad you put that in there. Two, what I saw as a quote-unquote black man, so-called black man, was a white man on top of his big game. Yeah. You know, when you see the one with guys kill lions or a narcissist or that's what I, that's what, that's what I saw. And that goes back to us being viewed as animals for so many years and subhuman. Super triggering this. That's super triggering. Yeah.

23:20 Right. So these are subconscious things that are going on. But we have to get back to why not, why white? Why black? What makes you white? What makes you black? This is a, I had a lot of throwback clips for this show because we touched on this subject so many times. It's surprising. So when I start digging back through the archive, it's like, wow, like that and that, you know, it comes back a lot. Right. And this one is from show nine. And this is one drop rule with Dr.

23:57 Yaba Blay and Don Lemon. In the years following the abolition of slavery, some Americans feared a rise in interracial relationships. So states began passing laws to make sure that any child with a Negro and a white parent could be considered black and denied the rights of white people. In other words, a child with even one drop of Negro blood would be classified as Negro. This became known as the one-drop rule, a standard ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1967. This and the hardships of racism also caused African Americans to pass, pretend they were white without ever telling their families, leaving a lot of whites not knowing they had black blood. But some experts on race relations say the legacy of the one-drop rule still exists. in today's culture.

24:43 Yeah, I remember this. Yeah, so there you have it. If you have, I think, 132nd, if you're 130 second black, that's what I want. You're black. You're black. How does that work? So that goes back to the purity thing. It's like, as long as you're pure, you can be white. Well, that changed over time because they started grafting in other ethnic groups. Well, yes. And I think the rise of the DNA test showed that, you know, no one's really pure. In fact, I think a lot of people were delighted to find out that they had all kinds of different DNA

25:24 coursing through their veins. That's true. But I would love to see, and just I'm playing devil advocate here. I would love to see they say, what's 130 second? What's that math? Roughly like 3%, I think. Yeah. Just doing my head. Say, if you have more than 4% black blood in you, you have to classify yourself as black. Then we'll start to see. Then we'll start to see how much people like to embrace their diversity. Well, this was struck down by the Supreme Court for a reason, obviously. True, I'm just saying a lot of people would be considered as passing.

26:05 So this is way broader. If we use the old standard, like you said, it has been taken down. But if we use the old standard, everybody that came back with your DNA test came back more than 4%, you would be classified as black. Right. Yeah. I would love to see if those DNA tests are still popular. Is that what you're saying? Exactly. Or I got to tell you, I believe a lot of people, because this is where we've come to, it's very interesting. And, you know, I talked to a lot of young people.

26:45 So in their 20s, I think a lot of them would be, oh, yeah, I think that they would be very cool with it if it truly was the 4% rule and you had to classify. There's something going on in the psyche that is very, very, I'm not sure. I can't even classify it. You know, it's like. It's the binary. It's the binary thing. So now, well, but the binary is white is evil. Yeah. And everything else not white is good. Yeah, it's and that's and that binary and it flips and you're so right. And it and it can flip for people multiple times in an hour, I think, because they're so confused.

27:25 In fact, that is the problem here. We are confused. And then you shock some things in the system and you get some people breaking stuff, some shocking images. This is a very, very confusing time. And it's very unhealthy. Well, obviously, physically unhealthy for a lot of people, but mentally, this is crazy. And what you just said sparked a thought in my brain. So what you will have now is a reverse passing movement because people are trying to run away from white as being negative now in perception.

28:03 So they would say, you know, so I don't have to go through the troubles of being a white person in society. I would pass for something else. Anything. Of course, anything's possible. And I certainly believe a lot of the people I'm seeing today would be all in on that. But that lends to the mentality why a black person would go the opposite way in maybe the 20s, 30s, and 40s. Right. But exactly. The whole idea of the color thing is an anachronism. The whole idea is old-fashioned and dumb, but yet it's stronger than ever.

28:46 White, black, the two opposite each other, good, bad. Well, that's the Hegelian dialectic. That's the checkerboard four of the ruling elite, their symbolism. I mean, all of this. All the things we've talked about all come together in this, man. It's really interesting. So what is the solution? No race. Right. One race. One world. No borders. Give up your lineage. That's the end game of globalism.

29:27 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you nailed it. You nailed it right there. That's it. Everybody, all be one, all men. melt together. No lineage, no nothing. Imagine all the people. Yep. That is the plan. Unfortunately, that never really seems to work out very well. No, because we'll just divide ourselves under different people always love to divide themselves. I mean, you have you can speak to this better, I can, but white people have ginger and this and that. It's like, what? Yes. Yeah. So you have these subcultures within cultures themselves.

30:08 But let's wrap up with Dylan on the one-drop part two. Explain what the one-drop rule is. The one-drop rule, historically, also known as the rule of hypo-descent, was really instituted to protect whiteness. It was a way for the white majority to be able to name and cite who was white. So it was one drop, which was one 30 second. 130 second of Negro or African blood would make that person Negro or African, whatever the classification they used at the time. I hear people say we're in a post-racial society. The reality is, in order to get beyond something, you have to understand it, right? And where in your education, where have you been required to learn about race? They don't teach it.

30:49 No. It is the foundation of this country. We have to talk about race. We have to talk about racial difference. It is just a flat-out lie for us to believe that we've moved beyond race. Is she saying that race is the foundation of our country? Yes. Hmm. Thoughts? Yeah. Fact-check false on that. That's what you may want, lady, but no. No, that's not what the foundation is. Yeah, indeed. What do we do with these people? I can understand where she's coming from. Well, I think don't think she's saying it.

31:33 How can I say this? You're in the club or you're not. And we saw this with Abraham Lincoln on the things he talked about. It was always, this was supposed to be set up as a white nation. Yes. So I think that's the point of view she's trying to make. That's how I take. I can't speak for her, but that's how I received it. That it was set up to be inclusive for a one group of people. Right. And even your, even the great emancipator thought that way. So it's, it's like, wow. But we're going to find out you can be grafted in.

32:20 And this by not, like I said, we got to get away from color. That's why I want this. This show is not. This is not about cut. Black is not about color. And we're going to find that out later on the show. But the book I referred to when we were having our conversation was Our Kind of People that spoke about passing in detail. And it was written by Lawrence Otis Graham. And before we get into him speaking, I want you to qualify that he's, you know, to prove that he's qualified to speak on this topic.

32:57 I want to get into his bio. Lawrence Otis Graham is a nationally known attorney and commentator on race, politics, and class in America. A contributing editor at U.S. News and World Report. He is the author of 12 other books, including Member of the Club and Proversity: Getting Past Face Value, as an article, as well as articles in the New York Times, Essence, and Glamour. A graduate of Princeton and Harvard Law School, Graham is best known for appearing on the cover of New York Magazine after leaving his Manhattan law firm and going undercover as a busboy at a discriminatory country club in Greenwich, Connecticut.

33:40 Oh, yeah. He also appeared on the cover for his story, Harlem on My Mind. In addition to teaching African American studies at Fordham University and American government at Dutchess Community College, Graham has worked at the White House and Ford Foundation. He is active with the Council on Foreign Relations, Council on Economic Priorities, Westchester Holocaust Commission, Urban League, Boy Scouts, Red Cross, NAACP, and Rotary International, and a numbness of Jack and Jill, the son of a link, and a member of the Boulet. Graham is uniquely qualified to write about the black upper class.

34:25 Did that just slip that in, or is that no, that's just like just you. Boule. His book goes all into all of the groups: the Jack and Jill, the Boulet. I mean, this is that's fantastic. This is like the Bible of the Boule, or one of them, one of the books in the Bible of the Boulet. So, he's highly qualified. Yeah, no kidding to speak of the black elite. So, I just wanted to share that with everybody. Yeah. So, you know, who you're hearing from when we talk about Mr. Lawrence Otis Graham. So, he's going to get into the origin of the black elite.

35:06 And also to see some of the distinctions, because a lot of people have looked at my book and they've seen that a lot of the photos are of light-complexioned black folks. And they say, Well, why are all the blacks light-complexion? And historically, the black upper class has been light-complexioned because the group started from slavery when the slave owners divided us on the plantations into the, excuse my French, the field niggers and the house niggers. And that was the term that was used, where they had the dark-skinned slaves working in the worst labor, and then the light-skinned slaves working in the quote-unquote prestige slave jobs as the mammies, the cooks, the butlers, the servants.

35:45 And of course, those were the ones who were also forced to procreate with the white slave owners, thus creating more light-skinned offspring, still slaves, nevertheless, but they were also the ones who got the better treatment, the better food, clothing, and also the ones who ultimately were allowed to be educated. So it was that caste system that really created the black upper class. And I guess the mistake of many members of this group was buying into this whole concept that there was a superiority based upon a lighter complexion. Yeah, yeah, it's coming back to me now. I mean, how do you get, how do you move beyond that that has been in place for hundreds of years and gradually has been shoveled into everybody's heads?

36:35 It's, I mean, it's not an easy undoing. I played this clip to show the intra divide of the oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Well, so we haven't got to passing it. We just talk about light, fair-skinned black people against the darker black people. So they already had separated themselves out into their own class. Yeah, the caste. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's a better term. And we've seen this in South Africa because you have your blacks. Yeah. You're colored. I'll say it again. You're colored. Yeah, color people. People of color.

37:20 Color people. So I have this weird notion that people of color is a level up from black. Okay. Yeah, I see. So you got black, then you got colored. Then you got colored. Then you got colored. Then you got white. Well, no, no. It should be, I think it's different. It's black, colored, people of colored, then you get to eventually to white. I think that I think this people of color and color is the same thing. I mean, that's what we, that's what we always joke about. So, but it's, they're installing this very subtle.

38:03 Just for me, it's different if someone says colored is different than it's even different than colored people. Color just sounds that that just sounds like a slur, man. Yeah, it is. Nobody had to soften it up with people. People. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. Gotcha. All right. But it's still the same fucked up structure in South Africa. But I'm just showing you that it's like, notice how we always hear when people are affluent or of some means, they always say black, and then they follow right up immediately with people of color.

38:45 It's like a dog whistle. Right. To say, oh, people of color. So I'm not black. I put myself in with Asians and Indians and Hispanics. You know, I'm one level above being black. Right. That's just my opinion. But I see this setting up as, but, and this goes back to the Calergy plan. And I mean, we talked about that. Right. But it also works the other way around. I mean, Kamala Harris will proudly say she's a woman of color, insinuating that she's black or African American, which. which she's not. So it's misused up and down.

39:30 Yeah, it's a safe space. It's a safe space. It's a nice little landing spot. It's like a neutral spot. Yeah. Right. But yeah, so I'm just pointing this out because I want to show the progression how you get to passing. It was like you already had, you already had privileges. Yeah. We'll call it light privilege, not white privilege. So you already had light privilege, but that wasn't enough. That wasn't enough for you. You had to turn your back completely on your lineage. And this is, I'm going back to where the rub is when

40:12 Nicole Hannah Jones made her statement. This is a lot. This is a rub for people. It wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough to have light privilege. You had to go all the way. And go for passing. Right. So let's get into 1.2. But that is why when you look at the earlier classes of graduates from Howard and Spelman and Fisk and Morehouse and schools like that, as well as the early members. I mean, as you can see on the cover of the book at a cotillion in 1952, that

40:50 the 17-year-old young women who are graduating from the school for graduating and going to this cotillion in Manhattan were light-complexioned women. So that is how this caste system got started. And why we have such things as the brown paper bag and ruler test, which was also an important aspect of this community. We've spoken about the brown paper bag test, which was actually at the historically black colleges. I don't know what's the ruler test. I don't remember if we talked about the ruler testing. I think it's the same thing. It's more, you know, a ruler is that light, light wood color. Okay.

41:30 Oh, the color of the ruler. Yes, I got you. Right. Well, and just to go back to the, and I think the best system we compare this to is the South African system, which they had the pencil test, which is not about color, more is hair texture. If they could put a pencil in your hair and it falls out, then you can be considered colored and not black. Wow. So this is instant, and we had one of our producers write into us about the same thing in India. So this is not. This is what this is white supreme.

42:09 This is the globalist. It's like, this is what you need to aspire to. Yes, the true white supremacy is pushing for this. And the true white supremacy comes from the lineage of the old families, the old families who have run the show for hundreds of years. The blood. The blood, that's right. The blood. So that's your German families, your British families, some Russian families, families, families and bloodlines all throughout history. Correct. So he brought up two things. One, you caught on to the brown paper bag. And as you accurately stated, we talked about it, but I have the clip where we talked about it.

42:52 And he also mentioned a school in there that we talked about, Fisk. This is Matthew Knowles, Beyonce's dad, and this is from show nine speaking on colorism. Fortunately, we had scrimmaged a little small black school. You know, larger schools scrimmage small black schools or play them in an initial year season. And this coach at Fisk University whispered in my ear because I played very well in the scrimmage that if I ever wanted to go to Fisk University to just call him. And I remembered that. So you transferred to Fisk? Transferred to Fisk.

43:35 But Fisk had the color, the brown paper bag test? Brown paper bag test. This is a real thing? Oh, absolutely. A very known thing in the black community. I remember Azalea Banks was lightening her skin at one point and she was talking about the brown paper bag test and how black guys respect the brown paper bag. Yeah, well-known fact. I had never heard of it until she said it. I didn't realize how far back it goes. Yeah. So they pulled out a brown paper bag? No, how it worked. This is, I transferred in 1972. Okay. And how, and it was the last class that they did the brown paper bag.

44:18 And they were asked you for. photo you had to submit with your registration. And they would put the photo up against the brown paperback. Okay. And Fisk was a black, primarily black school? It was all black. 100% black. So you have a 100% black school that would not admit dark-skinned people if they were not athletes. That's absolutely right. Or if they were women and they had very prominent families of very wealthy families that donated a significant amount of money to the school. Yeah, this has got to be one of my favorite stories from the show. Historically, black, all-black, all-black college in my lifetime.

45:02 Sorry, son. Too black. Can you believe that? That's eight years before I was born. Moe. We're not talking about 1872. Mo, that was only 10 years before I went to college. You could have gotten a Fisk. I don't know. Yeah. But just tan a little bit, I would have been good to go. It's crazy. That goes to show you that that wasn't good enough for you.

45:39 They had their own existence. I mean, their own structured culture universities. And that still wasn't enough. Have they ever admitted to this? Have they ever publicly said, wow, we did that and we shouldn't do that and we'll never do that again? And we abolished it then and then. Have they ever really come clean on that, Fisk? I haven't seen a formal apology and they probably won't. And something else I want to point out that he says, like, if you were good at athletics, had enough money, you could get access.

46:25 That's even to this day with passing. Yeah. We see with OJ, they would know the statement, I'm not black, I'm OJ, Tiger Woods, you know, these kind of things that when you're so successful, that white society would kind of graft you in as it's a term they use pre-qualifier of successful black man. That means something different. Right. Right. It's kind of like when they say, oh, you're different. You know, like people tell you that, oh, you're different. So it's, oh, yeah, you can, you're allowed a society. But I digress on that point. But I'm just going to show you.

47:10 I'm laying out the case of why I was so adamant and other people were so adamant about people passing and then coming back. It's like you could have been had light privilege and stayed black or kept your lineage. We're going to use loosely use that word black. And I remember when we were talking about this, we were talking, it was in the context of reparations, as we heard in that Karen Hunter show clip. Now, do you think that there are people coming back now because it's trendy? I think if large sums of money start to be handed out.

47:54 Yes, if money is being handed out, and as I understand, the CEO of BET has calculated $14 trillion would be the number. I'm sure you saw that, that story. Yeah, I saw that. And what's her name? Laura Ingram. She's not having that at all. So I'm like, now you see, this is why it's tangible. We're not going from one party to the other. What do you have to offer me for my vote? Well, transactions. All right. So before I let you go on, so what, what, what has now happened in this election year

48:39 is the Democrats are now taking advantage of this as if they weren't behind it in the first place, but taking advantage of this and saying, clearly, you can only be with us. Can't you see? We are the ones with you. Obviously, all those others, those guys are, you should not be voting for them. And I think that message is hitting home, Mo. I think they don't have a leg to stand on. I agree, but I think that the mind control is so strong that it's hitting home. I think. it's hitting home with people that were going to vote anyway. These younger people,

49:21 I really think they're disenchanted with the whole political process. Oh, yeah. And what we're seeing now in these protests that's turning into riots are bigger about they started out as black people being outraged about a black man being killed in the most heinous way probably possible with imagery that strikes that I alluded to before. But once we came out, it's like, yeah, let's get once we opened that door, as my analogy I always use.

50:05 Other people came flying through that door and left us holding the door. And grabbed the iPhones and all the Louis Vuitton bags because we saw who was going in. Mainly white kids. That's what I see. It's true. And the ones that are antagonizing the cops. White. The ones that are getting all in their face are white kids or, you know, I mean, it's kind of hard to tell, but I mean, yeah. No, I can tell. Non-black. Just say non-black. Just say not because I mean, they could be right, non-black, non-black, non-male.

50:42 How about that? Right. Yeah. It's white girls standing in front of the cops with their phone, taunting them so that they can get some kind of cred or whatever it is when they get pushed away or tear gassed. It's a very odd phenomenon. I love seeing people who are walking up to and said, hey, hey, hey, come here. And just grabbing these kids and pulling them back. You insane? Get out of here. So this is what we're seeing. One of the people that we talked about on this show, so we're going to get into who passes now. Okay. And if they're entitled to it. We played this clip a couple times, but

51:24 it's relevant to this conversation. And this is: was J. Edgar Hoover black? One of the most disliked white men in the black community, allegedly, was black himself. That rumor doesn't surprise those who observe some of those blacks who pass over and become white bigots to cover their tracks, or perhaps they just suffer from self-hatred. But it sent Millie McGee back to her family tree in Macomb, Mississippi, to see if the man who became synonymous with the FBI and the hatred of Martin Luther King Jr. was himself her cousin, who had gone through the special underground railroad built from the South to Washington, D.C.

52:06 for blacks who looked white enough to live as white people. Thank you very much for being with me. Thank you for having me. Your book, Secrets Uncovered, J. Edgar Hoover Passing for White. And I said passing for white because there's a question mark. Why the title Passing for White question mark? Yeah, I remember this. And I remember looking at J. Edgar Hoover's picture going like, oh, I never really considered that. And this is a phenomenon with people that pass and not all people that pass. And there's different stories and original stories of people and how they end up passing.

52:47 So I don't want to paint everybody with a broad brush, but there is a segment of passers that are self-loathing and become bigots themselves to prove that they are part of the club. And we, I want to tie it back into what's going on now. You hear this, it's anecdotal evidence, but you hear it a lot about some black police that they're the worst to get pulled over because they're trying to prove

53:28 that they're not giving they're not giving any breaks. Even further than that, that it's like overcompensation. Right. And they think that that's what they need to do to prove that they're part of the club. So I think this is kind of the mindset of J. Edgar Hoover. He didn't want to be found out. So it's self-preservation. It's to prove not to get found out. I have to maintain a hard line, right? We see this oftentimes with closeted homosexuals, right?

54:06 They're very hateful. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. yeah. Uh, towards other homosexuals. So it's the same phenomenon. It's this closeted thing that causes them to be hyper-aggressive. And J. Edgar Hoover had a twofer in that because not only was he passing, but he was also it was rumored that he was a homosexual, also, but also that he was just a cross-dresser, which at the time, of course, would not have been acceptable, certainly not from the first guy to run the FBI. And now it goes a lot to his psyche, right?

54:48 I mean, you're carrying that kind of baggage around. He got insane. Yeah. These type of people, and I'm going to use this term, and maybe it's not the most accepted term, but these kind of people are seen as race traitors. Because not only did you pass and just live your life, you know, as the, you know, whatever you could pass as, you are trying to cause harm to the people you left behind. And that's the most disgusting. And if Jay Edgar Hoover was alive and he tried to go and claim his reparation check that he would might be entitled to, yeah, that would not work out too well.

55:32 And these are the worst case scenarios where people start to, you know, paint, you know, to use as, you know, examples of why you have the 10-year rule, which the 10-year rule is not. I want to be clear. The 10-year rule is not my rule, but I'm explaining how. But it's how people think about it. And I understand. What it says more is it's not about 10 years or five years or one years. Like, hey, you turned your back. That's it. Bye-bye. It's not that you turned your back. And see, people think you turned your back on your color. It's not your color. I didn't say that. I said you turned your back. I didn't know. I didn't say that. No, I didn't say you said that.

56:16 I'm elaborating on what you said. It's not color that you turned your back on. You turned your back on your father or your mother and your grandparents. That is the most disgusting thing in my mind. I am so proud to be my father and mother's child. I can never imagine, even if, say, for instance, they did something heinous, right? I will still not disconnect myself from them. Now, to go back to what's going on now, we saw this with

57:01 the cop's wife. I don't. She quickly. I don't know exactly what happened. I didn't follow that part. Oh, she's filing for divorce. Well, yeah. Yeah. Once you're married to an animal, right? But that's still the father of your kids. So what I'm saying is we see these things playing out. And I just want, like I said, this is going to weave in and out of the current event that's going on now. But I just want to show examples of mindset of how people easily depart from. I don't care. Like I said, my I couldn't imagine anything where I would disown my parents.

57:46 It's interesting that there's another version of this from another persecuted group historically, which is Jews, who many have changed their name to sound less Jewish or in fact, not Jewish at all. And I wonder how that's viewed by old school Jews. I have no idea if they feel like it's turning your back on them or not. And it was or denying your lineage and your history. And when you said that, it brought a thought to my brain of a movie with Michael Keaton. I can't remember the name of it, but he was terminally ill in the movie.

58:29 He had moved out to Hollywood. I think he was Polish and he had a Polish last name and he changed it. And in the movie, his father was like, how could you change your last name? Like, I mean, that's big. I don't think people understand how important. And maybe in this world, maybe it's not now, but maybe I come from an antiquated time. But my last name lends itself to my grandfather and his father. That's what links me to them. I didn't realize that facts had such. such a long lineage as a name. Yes. My life, I think, was the movie you're talking about.

59:12 My life. Yeah. And then in that, I'm going to just land that out, that this is not exclusive to black phenomenon. That when you give up your name, that would be the most hurtful thing that my children could do. But I mean, like I said, I digress on that. Let's finish up with the Hoover situation. Because when I first started writing the book, I did not realize that J. Edgar Hoover was actually in my lineage. And I was told it was rumors in the family that he was, and just rumors. So I knew that I had to put a question mark until I did some research and make out for sure that he was a part of the family.

59:54 This is a pretty serious charge. And not because there's anything wrong with being black, but because of the other implications. Do you feel comfortable making this charge that J. Edgar Hoover, are you saying in effect he was black? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying, in fact, that I'm a black woman and he is in my family lineage. He is a part of my family. I don't necessarily like it. I didn't even know it when I started it. But when I found it out, I was looking for my great-great-grandmother, who is Emily Allen, who had babies by his ancestors.

1:00:38 And after doing my research, after two and a half years of research, I have, without a shadow of a doubt, in my heart and the documents, showing that he is a part of our lineage. He must have been more than 32%, though. During the 132nd. Yeah, so yeah, he had to be. Yeah, when you do that, he likes, like, sounds more like 18th. Yeah, maybe 116th. That one-eighth would be one of your great-grandparents were. Yeah. Right? So, so four would be your grandparents. Eighth would be your great-grandparents.

1:01:19 And 16th would be your great-great-grandparents. So, yeah, he falls. It goes fast, though, man. If you mess around with Ancestry.com, you drag in a couple of people before you know it. Wow, I'm at 1600. Now I'm in Ireland. What the hell am I doing here? It goes real fast. That's only like great-great-grandparents. And before you know it, you're all the way. You're before America. It's crazy. It doesn't take long, especially a man of his age. Right. It really doesn't take, it really didn't take long. Yeah, so that's Jayga Hoover. Another prominent figure that we cover on this show, and this was from show nine.

1:02:02 Like I said, I'm just surprised how many times we danced around this. This passing phenomenon, yes. The double entendre of passing, like we write, we pass by it. Oh, yeah. But we had a clip of Oprah on the pressure of passing for white. And certainly the whole passing thing, that's a whole nother, as a whole other subject, the passing thing. But you know, the thing about passing for those who did pass, and Lita was saying this for in her family, once you pass, the decision to pass means you've given up your whole entire family, you know, that you can never go back.

1:02:45 Because you all understand that, right? Because if you're passing, you just can't have your black mother show up. You just cannot explain four black women in your kitchen all of a sudden. Yeah. So that's that lends to what I'm saying about you have to give up your family. Right. So to do that and then come back, that's a hard pass. I got you. Passing on the test. Yeah. It's really

1:03:25 irksome to me. It irks me so much. And I can't wrap your head around it. But in fairness, in fairness, yeah, go ahead. How many examples of people doing this do you have? We don't know. That's the thing. I mean, we've talked about a couple in the course of the past 30-some odd episodes. Yeah, we're talking about elite people, though. Everyday, fair-skinned people. We don't know. Because it's so easily, I mean, we have to look at too.

1:04:06 We don't live in the age that we live now with a social media footprint and how you can search records and everything like that. Well, I'm talking like Sean King, you know, people like this. Exactly. So I put him in an elite class, you know, the elite media class, I guess. But he's allowed to. That's the weird thing. He's allowed, but he will be reverse passing, though. I think that's why he's allowed to. It's not like he left and came back. I think it's the leaving and coming back. Right. That's the problem.

1:04:46 It's like you left for benefits, and the only reason you return back is for benefits. Right. But are there any disingenuous? But are there any people who've returned back for some great benefits that I'm unaware of? No, because the benefits haven't been there. I was going to say, you can't show me a single passing person who's like, hey, I think it's time to go back and be black. This seems like a perfect time to be black. No, it's like you get a, it's like a cloak. Yeah. We're going to get, we're going to get into the reasoning for passing.

1:05:28 I'm not, I'm not beating up on these people completely because there is some justification. And some people just actually stumble into passing. So we're going to get into that as well. But I guess this is a good time to listen to the second clip from Oprah. Well, you know, I experienced this early when I, you know, I was shifted from one parent to the other. And I came to live in Milwaukee with my mother. I was rooming with a lady. And my mother has another daughter. So I have a half-sister who is light-skinned and younger than I.

1:06:07 And they were allowed to stay inside the house. And I was forced to sleep outside in the hallway because I was the brown-skinned person. And, you know, and my, you know, my mother did it just because otherwise we'd have no place to sleep. But the place was owned by a white, not white, but I thought she was white, Ms. Miller, who also passed and just didn't want the brown-skinned child in her house. It's just really racism passed on to ourselves. That's what it really is in a very strong way. Yeah, that's the key point. I love this. I love this topic because it's not something you hear often about very often.

1:06:49 I mean, at all. And it affects everybody. And particularly if you have black people passing. I think in many cases it's quite a shame. This could be a lot of really smart, helpful people. And as we said before, they were already gifted with light privilege. Now, I will say this because I don't want to make this a colorist issue. Some of the most adamant and forceful and outspoken black leaders have been of fair skin.

1:07:34 When you look at Adam Clayton Powell, when you look at Malcolm X, I mean, his mother was almost, she could have easily passed. Right. So that's not the point I'm trying to make. It's the point that there's a segment, and I'm trying to make this very clear. There is a segment of people that pass that are racist. Yeah. And that's where, once again, no, you can't come back. You stay over there. You went over there, you stay over there because it just, it just, it doesn't do well. But that's not the case for everybody.

1:08:16 That's not the case for everybody. So now we're going to get back to Lawrence Otis Graham, the Super Boulet brother. And he gets into more into the origin of the black elite. During my six years of researching our kind of people, I also noticed that this is a very insular group. These are folks who do not socialize outside of their own community. And when I say their own community, they don't socialize in church or in social situations or business. business settings outside of the people that they consider to be their kind of people.

1:09:00 For example, when I was in Philadelphia, I would ask people: was Bill Cosby a member of the black upper class in Philadelphia? And almost uniformly, these old families said, Absolutely not. He's an entertainer. So that was another aspect that I found within this group: they didn't like entertainers. They didn't like people who had made money through sports. They wanted people as a part of their group who had gotten money through medicine, through law, through business. So it was a very, very exclusive group. And I mean that in every sense of the word. Wow, Bill. I mean, of course, now in hindsight, good on them, but oh, yeah, Bill Cosby.

1:09:43 Interesting that he would be shunned. And I guess it's the same with every elite group, I guess. Yeah, and we had this conversation about Donald Trump. Yes. That he wasn't allowed. He was allowed to play, but they really didn't like him. They just liked him hanging around with his money. It was kind of fun. But they didn't say what he didn't like. As a player. No, as a player. No, not at all. Right. So this go to show is not about money. And these, a large group of, okay, I mean, how can I say this?

1:10:25 This is where a large group of your pastors came from because they interbred with each other based off of appearance and color and those kind of things, hair texture, to the point where they could easily just slip into the other part of society. So that's why I'm pointing out the black elite. And it's like you had your own group. But that wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough. You kept other people out. I mean, I don't care how much money Bill Cosby has.

1:11:07 I mean, we're talking about in the 90s. So Bill was a major, major, you know, player. Bill Cosby. And he was pushing, and he was pushing the Boule mindset to America. In the 90s, when I was at MTV and Bill Cosby was really the height of his career, I knew a guy who did his booking. He would literally take a cab to his first gig. He would sit on a chair backwards, 45 minutes, do his thing, $100,000, and he'd walk to the next one and he'd do three of those in a night

1:11:48 in Manhattan. Three in a night sometimes. On top of the TV money, which he had. Oh, yeah, it was crazy. Two of the most popular shows. And not only popular and viewership, I'm talking about popular mindset. Yeah, influential, very influential. A lot of black people went to college based off different worlds. Yeah. So we're talking. So I think he was trying to show that he was of that ilk and he could be allowed in. And that probably irked them a lot. Yeah, that probably played right into why he did a lot of that. I agree. Yeah, you're right.

1:12:34 I guess we can continue on with Lawrence and 3.1. So I wrote about Alice Mason, did some research, and I found that Alice Mason is a real estate broker in New York City where she sells apartments valued only above a million and a half dollars. So that's the only clientele she has is people that are spending a million and a half dollars or more on apartments. So clearly a very wealthy clientele. And I also knew that she was friends of Brooke Astor and a lot of, and Barbara Walters and a lot of New York socialites. So I wrote about this in the book, but when it first came out, folks from Philadelphia called me up and they said, oh, great.

1:13:16 Alice Mason's finally come out of the closet. And I said, well, what do you mean, come out of the closet? And they said, oh, well, I guess we neglected to tell you that she's been living as white for the last 35 years. And yeah, they had forgotten to tell me that little fact. So it's unfortunately still a part of within many of these families. There are one or two cousins or uncles or aunts who've chosen to make that decision. Obviously, it was in greater number at a time when it was economically. economically necessary. Wow. So, this is a thing. Yeah, it's a major thing.

1:13:57 And now it's this. I think now the safe space is not white anymore because we, well, of what we previously talked about. I'm just kidding. So, now it's multiple, now the past is multi-racial. What's the other word they want to use? Multicultural. I'd say multi-culture. Yeah, multi-cultural. Diverse background. Racially ambiguous is another one. Ooh, racially ambiguous. Yeah, so yeah, they just slide right, you know, because I'm right now.

1:14:39 You can't really go full white. You never want to go full white. No, no, no, never, never want to go full white. You know that. Never go full white. Of course not. So it's like, yeah, you know, I come from a diverse background. You know, these are these are the things they look at. The terms, the terms you want to use. And now that's where people of color is that safe landing spot. Yeah. That, well, okay, hold on. From a you're so right. From a broader perspective, you look at it right now today. And I would say across the globe, you don't want to be ultra white and you don't want to be ultra black.

1:15:19 You want to be kind of mishmash in the middle. That is, it's a broad safe space, but that's, it seems like that the two extremes are in trouble. Perfect example, perfect example is Megan Markle. Yes. When I saw her on, I mean, I used to watch Suits, the television shows, she was popular on, and I was like, hmm. But I was looking, maybe she's Latina or, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, she could go, that's what we call, that's perfect example of racially ambiguous. But in the storyline, they had wrote in that she was biracial. So I'm like, oh, okay, now I get it.

1:16:05 But she was safe enough to be grafted in, or she thought she was to the bloodlines. Yeah, it seems like that was an issue. It didn't quite work. Who knows what didn't work out there? And how is Harry being handled for turning his back on his lineage? Oh, yeah. No, he's cut out forever. But of course, you know, he already, he already was kind of not really part of the club with his ginger thing is a dead giveaway. So these two, these two degenerates, they might as well go live in Candinavia and get away from us.

1:16:41 Good riddance to them. But you see, when he came out publicly to say, I want to give up my royal claim, he was shunned. Oh, yeah. And, you know, so I'm just going to show you again. This is not exclusive to the black experience. So we stopped at 3.1. Let's go ahead and get into 3.2. My parents had grown up in Memphis in the segregated South, and they would tell me stories of when they were shopping at Goldsmiths, which is one of the, was one of, well, still is a big department store, but back in the 50s, they couldn't try on blacks, couldn't try on shoes, couldn't try on hats.

1:17:22 So they, so some people decided if they needed to, they would just pass in order to try on a dress or do whatever they needed to do. Or if they wanted to sit downstairs and air conditioned part of a movie theater or to go swimming in a particular pool. Yeah. This is how people slip. That's why I was saying sometimes it wasn't intentional or wasn't out of a place of malice. Right. It was, man, I really like those shoes. But, you know, I had a wide foot. So if you don't ask, I'm not going to tell. You know, like, don't ask, don't tell kind of thing. You know, hold on a second. Yeah, let me get those.

1:18:04 What is this wide foot business that I know nothing about? No, no, no. I'm just saying, no, it's nothing. No, I have a wide foot. So I had to try on shoes. Certain shoes I can't wear. So I'm just putting myself in their shoes. Okay. And like, if I could easily try those shoes on just to make my day a lot simpler where I don't have to return them. Yeah. And the shoe salesman doesn't catch on. And that's why I said this. Some people like kind of stumble into passing. Right. Where they get all of a sudden they get some actual benefit and like, oh, crap. Okay. I'll take this. this.

1:18:46 Right. It's like, oh, okay, okay. Yeah, that worked. I'm not going to, if you don't say nothing, I'm not going to say nothing. Let me slide down here to the air conditioning part of the theater. And if nobody tells me to move, yeah. And so I think I want to be fair here. And I want to paint everybody as a J. Edgar Hoover. So I want to show how people just kind of maybe one occurrence here, one occurrence there. Before you move to another town, you might fall in love with somebody. And it's like,

1:19:26 let me not say anything. Let me not rock the boat. Right. So I don't want, yeah, I don't, but when the rubber meets the road, I can never go back home. I can never tell them about my grandfather or grandmother. Yeah, well, that's a decision people are making for themselves, I guess. It is, but I'm just saying, once again, it's you may have stumbled into passing, but at some point, you had to be

1:20:07 denial happens. So I think we stopped at 3.2. And as he pointed out, the shoes, the, you know, the hat, you know, you want to try to go to a swimming pool. You want to sit in the air conditioned part of the theater. I found this interesting clip from, it was a little mini documentary of I'm Not Black, I'm OJ. And it's with Chris Rock. And he gives an example that's way more harsh and maybe explains why people may have passed. My mother in South Carolina, not too long ago, my mother, not my great-grandmother,

1:20:49 they wouldn't let black people go to the dentist. So she had to, all the black people in town got their teeth taken out by the vet. Gosh. Said to go to the vet. Okay. And not only did they have to go to the vet to get their teeth removed, they had to go to the back door. Because God forbid the white people found out that they were using the same utensils or whatever the hell, the same equipment on niggas that were going on their dogs. Okay. That's my mother. It's not like some old, this is not like George Washington Carver or some shit.

1:21:33 This is my mother. Wow. So imagine if that's your reality and you can get around that, you can get decent health care or you can walk down the street without being harassed. Imagine, I wonder this sometimes if there was some invention where you could walk down the street and not be harassed or mentally think you're going to be harassed because I don't move like that. I don't move where, oh, I can't go here.

1:22:14 I can't go there. And that's a freedom that my father gave me. Right. I mean, he gave me the talk, but then he's like, you got to live life. Yeah. You know, you can't live life scared. But a lot of people were raised to be scared. We heard the talk given on the show in a different way. So if those people were allowed to be given a mechanism that can make them invisible, because that's what it really is. It is. It is. It is. Yeah. Because let's go back to the corona thing and the mask.

1:22:56 When you walked into that store and you didn't have that mask on. Yep. All of a sudden, stink eye. What was the, what was the, what did that mean? Oh, you're a Trump supporter. Oh, you, you know, you're, you're, you're all right. Oh, you're anti-science. Yes, yes, all of those things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just from you being you in your natural state. Now, imagine that. Yeah. Imagine my natural state is skin color. I got you. I feel you. I totally do. But a lot of people wore the mask, even me. Yeah. Well, what's always shocking is then you hear.

1:23:39 a story like that from Chris Rockos. We're talking about the paper bag test, Brown Paperbag test. This is a hard lifetime small, yours and mine. That's what y'all, y'all. That's what kills me, man. It's like, what? This is all so recent. And you kind of grow up thinking, we fixed all that. We wrote something, 68, whatever. It's all done. And that's the danger of just glossing over history. Yeah. Because now we don't see why people not everybody was raised like me as a free thinker and a proud, quote-unquote, black man.

1:24:26 To be honest, I don't want to be anything but what I am. Yeah. Never would I want to be anything what I am. Never. Because that's the way I was raised. I embrace who I am. But a lot of people are just like, if I could just be invisible from not even if it's reality or not. Well, we've seen where it is a reality. But I'm going to say this. This is part of the reason why black people spend so much money on retail items. Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Jordans.

1:25:11 It's not, it's because it's like, hey, I deserve to be here. You know, I'm one of you. You know, that kind of thing. It's a costume to say I fit in, right? I fit in. Just accept me. Really? Because I've never heard that explicitly explained that way. Yes. Anything we could put on to say, I'm not saying it's for everybody. No, of course they go out of their way. You have some people that wear a suit all the time, even if it's not appropriate to wear a suit or the preppy attire.

1:25:54 Because it's like, if I can put this on, maybe I'll just be just enough. Maybe they won't see it. Right. Huh. But of course, it gets almost caricaturized when you look at a lot of these, a lot of hip-hoppers. Then they go crazy with the bling. It goes all the way, it goes all nuts. It's become its own thing. Well, the other thing is, it's that reactive. It's like now it can work both ways because it's well, if that's white, I want to be the most opposite thing of white.

1:26:37 So I'm going to be dressed in another way. But when I'm talking about the Gucci and the, you know, those hot items, I'm talking about the ones that white people typically wear. And there is a white Gucci and a black Gucci. Oh, yes, there sure is. Yes, there is. Gucci clan, Gucci clan. Yeah, you bet there is. Right. So, yeah. Just imagine your grandparents had to go to the back door of the vet because the back door. So, because I don't want that, I don't want those black tools touching my dog. I mean, wow.

1:27:19 Yeah. That's amazing. So, as I always do, I start to dig. Right on. I went down this rabbit hole and I found this movie from 1949 that spoke about passing. And it was called Pinky. And it had Janine, I think it's how you say Janine Crane. And she's a, I think she's actually a white lady. I'm not sure. I think they actually use a white lady just to illustrate

1:28:01 who she is. But she, she, well, we get, we'll get a good background. And of course, this is fictional, but the conversation is had between the grandmother and the passing granddaughter. I wanted to use it and maybe provide some context to how that may have played out. What are you thinking? I wish it never sent me away. I mean, you wish you grew up ignorant? No count, good for nothing. You wish you never learned a leader. read and write and make you aim to school. Don't you see? Yes, Pinky, I do see.

1:28:43 Let me say something once and for all, and never again. Why did you write me less and less as time go by? Why is it after you go to the hospital, I get no letter at all? No, you don't need to say nothing. You think I don't know. You think poor old Adam woman like me living in a shake like this don't know nothing. But you're wrong, Pinky. I do know. And I know what you've done. And you know, I never told you pretending is what you ain't. Wow. This is, I had never heard of this movie. This is really interesting. This is. I'm looking at the IMDb.

1:29:26 Why you look that up? It was a wave of these movies around this time period. So I think will you speak to how popular this is, how popular it was to pass? It was several movies that came out. We're talking about pre-1950 here covering these topics. Yeah. And just to give some flesh out what's happening here, the grandmother is uneducated and she's the stereotypical mammy figure, dark-skinned, heavy-set lady.

1:30:05 And her granddaughter is this white lady. I mean, pretty much, I mean, for all intents and purposes, is a white lady. And she's saying, I'm not dumb enough to I'm not that dumb. I know why you stopped writing. I know what you done. And I never taught you to pretend to be something you're not. So I want that to be to land to how maybe that grandparent that you would go and forget about would feel about this. Yeah. Now, like I said, this is fictional, but sometimes even fictional things have some accuracy to it.

1:30:52 Granny, it just happened. It does a thing before God, and you know it. It was a conductor on the train. He put me back in another car, the white one. But he knowed who you were. I put you where you belong myself. No, no, it was after that. When they changed conductors, then why you ain't tell the new conductor? Oh, Granny, I don't know. I was only a child. Then what about school? What about that? Other children talk about their kinfolks, don't they? What you say when they ask you about yours? You tell them who your granny is. Oh, shame, shame be on you, Pinky. Denying yourself like Peter denied a good Lord Jesus.

1:31:37 Here, get out. Get down. That's where you belong. Now you tell the Lord what you've done. Act his forgiveness on your immortal soul. Come on out, Ten, get your breakfast. I don't want to hear another word from you about what you've done again as long as you live. Wow. This whole movie's on YouTube, by the way. Oh, yeah, it is. It's on YouTube. It's for free. Yeah, I put it in the show notes for people to go find it. So this goes to show you how she slipped into passing. She was sitting in the colored section. Right. She didn't get put into the other section. No. She was in the colored section.

1:32:21 Her grandmother put her into the color section. Right, right. And then when they switched conductors, the conductor told her, like, what are you doing back here? Yeah, you should be up front. Right. And she's like, okay. And like I said, these kind of things is, I could see this more playing out that somebody is like sinister, like, I'm going to create a whole new identity, right? It's do you think that this that if this was I mean, it's not quite the same because we don't really have segregated train cars, but do you feel still still feel that a lot of people will just say, hey, well, I got this benefit by accident. I think I'm just going to stick it like keep it that way?

1:33:08 Like I said, imagine if you could wake up one day and be invisible. Yeah. And I'm not talking about how society actually is on a widespread. I mean, like everywhere you go, it's very harmful to have that kind of thought process because it's very harmful, but people do have it. And for the one time you could expect. escape it, I think they enjoy it so much that it's, you know, uh, and I would say that for maybe um a Sean King or Rachel Dolezal, right? Maybe the one time they were truly accepted, you know, maybe they were like looked at as funny looking for their race, right?

1:33:55 But then somebody says, Well, you know, oh, you should try this black thing for a while, right? Because let's go back to light privilege. And I didn't use that clip, but even Sean King said he benefits from light privilege, so it's like now I'm accepted finally. So I can see how that can go both ways. Uh, it's a, it's an accepted thing, but and the fact is you're being accepted, you have to deny something, yes, which will be your true past, your true self.

1:34:35 And then, like I said, that's that's where that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Um, so let's continue on with Pinky 2.1 and tell him to keep right on looking. I'm not interested, but she'll die and let her die. I didn't mean that, but Granny, try to understand my side. I only came back here because I hadn't anywhere else to go. I'd forgotten what it was like. I've been away a long time, Granny. I've known another kind of life. I've been treated like a human being. Try to understand, Granny, like an equal. Don't you see I can't go back into that house? Haven't I had enough without that? Pinky,

1:35:18 I worked long and hard to give you an education. And if they don't educate the very heart out you, everything I've worked and slaved so hard for is wrong. Yeah, that's that's for sure. Right, right out of it. Oh, I can understand both sides of the argument. I can I can empathize. Also, 1949 may have been a little different, you know, we can't put ourselves in those shoes exactly. Yeah, so you're finally seen as a human for the first time, yeah, not a no, as a subhuman.

1:35:59 Well, less than the dogs, you got to go through the back door of the vet, right? So you could sit, you could sit down, enjoy a cup of coffee, you can go to the swimming pool, uh, these things of that nature. So I can understand, but then I can also understand the grandma. Like, I raised you to be better than this. Yep. And what no, what she says, they educated the heart out of you. Yeah, and that I think that hurt more than anything else. Like, you're not the person I raised, like, your child.

1:36:39 Like, you're not the child that I crafted and, you know, and shaped and molded. Are you going to spoil this movie? Are you going to give me what happens here? Yeah, I know you have one more clip. I want to watch it now. I want to find out what happens at the end. I'm sure it doesn't end well. No, I'm not going to spoil the movie for you because I want people to see it. So I'm just giving you snippets and bits, you know, just to add context because I don't have an interview of anybody I can interview to have this conversation with or, you know, to speak on this.

1:37:16 But yeah, this last clip, I want to show you how fast you can go from being seen as a human to less than human in a split second. Even man, can we give you a lift? No, thank you. Excuse me, ma'am. You must be a stranger around here. We can't let no white girl walk by herself through this here nigger section. I live in this section. You what? I said I live here. Now just let me alone. She lives here. Well, what do you know? Who'd ever figure that? Man, that's the whitest dinge I ever saw. Boy, look at that little swamp rabbit though.

1:38:10 What do you say? Let's go get her. Boy, let's go now. I'm surprised, Mr. Mo, that you expose us to this trauma, trauma entertainment, which you are normally so against.

1:39:19 I went to show this only to illustrate how, and like I said, this is fictional. But they went from, ma'am, you need a ride? Yeah. You're in a rough part of town. Yeah. Yeah. To she actually says she lives here that today try to attack her. Yeah. Just didn't change her complexion. Didn't change her appearance. And I'm sure in 1949 it was like that. Right. So like I said, I'm just showing it's not about color.

1:40:02 And that's the key point here. It's not about color. I understand. It's about what class or caste system you're in. It's like, oh, yeah. Oh, she's in the lower class or lower caste. So we can have our way with her. And I do apologize for using trauma-based entertainment. But this goes to show you this is nothing new either. All the way from 1949. Absolutely. I mean, so there's some value in it. And like I said, I wanted to have a fair representation for a passer because

1:40:40 I couldn't interview a passer. So I wanted to hear, put some context to why, how, how they were treated. Okay. Now I have a real story now from Megan Kelly of this woman who learned her mother past is white. A secretive mother, a grandfather she had never met, and a family history that she never suspected. Gail Lukasa could not have predicted what she would discover when she decided to dig into her mother's mysterious past. Watch. This is my mom and dad. And as far as I know, my father went to his grave never knowing my mom's secret.

1:41:21 My parents met during World War II. My mom was an absolutely stunningly beautiful woman. My dad, he had a great sense of humor. He served in the Pacific. He was very proud of that. In 1944, after the war, Harold Kalina married Elvira Frederick. They settled in a working-class neighborhood in Parma, Ohio. In 1946, their daughter Gail was born. Throughout her childhood, Gail says her mother mystified her in some ways. She was very meticulous about her makeup. She would wear a light foundation makeup to bed at night, which I thought was a little strange.

1:42:01 She would never go out in the sun unless she had a wide-brim hat. She would cover her hands with gloves. Really didn't like to be in the sun. But Gail says the biggest mystery was her mother's selective memory when talking about her own father, Ozimar Frederick. So this is just going to show you the extremes that people went to to conceal their identity. Wearing makeup and everything, yeah. To bed. And like they said, they didn't talk about her past. So I guess we'll just let her continue to tell her story.

1:42:40 Welcome, Gail. Thank you very much. Great to see you here. So you did finally work up the nerve to ask your mother about this birth certificate. It took you two years, but you finally sat down with her. You knew it had to be face-to-face. Yes, it had to be. This is not a conversation you have on the telephone. Yeah. Yeah. And you asked her why she's listed as, quote, colored on the birth certificate. I did. I, you know, I told her I'd found her birth certificate. It said colored. And she became very indignant with me. And she said, I don't know what birth certificate you have, but mine says I'm white. So I thought, well, wait a minute. So I said, Mom, I have some other documents. documents that I could show you.

1:43:21 The census records, your father's listed as black. And I have a letter from the state of Louisiana saying that COL means color. Well, she got very quiet, very quiet. And she's sitting in this large chair, and it almost seemed like the chair was swallowing her because she got very small. And she looked at me and she said, You have to promise me you will never tell anyone until after I die. And then she said, Because how will I hold my head up with my friends if they know? Wow. Holy crap. Even to the end. Yeah. Well, then everyone makes their own choices in life.

1:44:07 This is true. It's your choice how you want to live. But I'm just giving context to the conversation that we were having before of why it's so troubling to have this conversation or to allow the idea of allowing people that pass to come back. Oh, and it gets worse in clip three. And we're back now with Gail Lee Cossack, who discovered a whole new family when she uncovered her mother's secret. Her mom had an African-American father, a mixed-race mother, and she had run away from her past and had been passing as white since she was a young woman. Gail, thank you again. So talk about those clues like breadcrumbs you wrote about.

1:44:50 Well, my mother had some quirky habits that I, you know, as a child, you accept your mother's quirky habits, right? That's my mother. She would never went out into the sun unless she had a hat on, many times gloves. So she avoided the sun. And she never wanted to visit home, which I thought was odd. I asked her one time, can we visit your family in New Orleans? And no, it would depress me too much to visit home. And here's the strangest one for me: is that she always wore makeup to bed, a little white foundation. And as I got older, I did question that. I said, Mom, how come you wear makeup to bed?

1:45:29 And she said, Well, Gail, you know, you never know if you would get sick in the middle of the night and the ambulance would come and you always want to look your best because you'll get treated better at the hospital. And this is where I almost have to insert the obligatory. How did you feel about Michael Jackson? Oh, how did I feel about him? Yeah, you. Or how did everybody feel about it? It was. It was the secret. And this is where I'm glad you asked that question. That was a great question. Oh, it's not a great question. No,

1:46:13 it is because I want to show you how money could buy your way into still being black. Oh. That is a great point. Because he was so rich and so done something no white thriller, 20, what, 25 million albums sold. We weren't putting him up in the racial draft. Hell no. Right. But clearly. No, no, no, no. Clearly, he was trying to have it multiple ways.

1:46:52 I mean, true. I don't deny that. I mean, even to the point of his children, which I'm going to say this here. And I get killed every week. So why not? Those are not his kids. Oh, really? You don't think that he's the father? I'm just going off genetics here. Look at Michael Jackson's pictures in his childhood. Yeah. Well, his childhood. Yeah. Yeah. And then look at Blanket and Paris and the other one. Yeah. Them kids are not melanated at all. I haven't looked at him in a while. But I will say this. Everybody played alone.

1:47:37 Yeah. I didn't. I always called it. I like, come on, bro. Right. Mike had the big wide nose. But forget about the kids for a second, just him. I mean, he was clearly, clearly trying to look white. I mean, there's a million different things we can say why he was doing it, but at least at a certain point, that's what he was all about. Yeah, I don't think he got rejected by the blacks because he was too valuable. That's what I'm saying. He was too valuable to cancel. That kind of talent, you can't put in the racial draft. I don't care.

1:48:24 I mean, certainly I remember white people will be hanging around, like, hey, man, Michael, he's great. What is he doing, though? What's up with this? Trying to look like a white person. I mean, was it like a secret talk y'all had? It's like, well, you know, he's too valuable to cancel, but holy crap, what's Mike doing? Oh, everybody. It was the what's Mike doing? But at the same time, he was such. I mean, we're talking about Michael Jack. He's talking about Bill Cosby. I mean, he dwarfs Bill Cosby by, like, I mean, so much. But no, hold on a second. Because it's kind of hypocritical. What is?

1:49:04 Well, on one hand, you know, so he was influential because of money, fame, music. Was it his actual lyrics that did it? Were his lyrics so incredibly important? I'm not speaking from, I'm not speaking for myself here. No, but I'm asking for you for why he was embraced. He was embraced because of his value to the race. Right. It's like Michael Jordan, if he bleached his skin. We're not giving him up. I don't care what you say. Okay. So they go to show. At least I understand how it works. At least I understand how it works.

1:49:45 Now it goes to show you how much BS it is. And that's why I say it's a great question because now you pull back the veil on a man who's out. Right. But it's also, well, he's so important looking like a white guy that we got to keep him, even though everyone knows he's black, but he's trying to be white. And so it there's a rub there. I mean, we can't all be pissed off if someone takes advantage of that for their own personal benefit that is not so external. You know, ultimately, Michael Jordan does good things. Michael Jackson did lots of good things for charity, but lots of people do stuff with money.

1:50:29 True. No, no, no, no, no, no. And it's not about money. It's about status symbol. It's about we have one of those. That's why we, like Mariah Carey, she's racially ambiguous, but we embrace her. It's about, and this is, this is the very man, you can't just hold back. No, hold on, hold on, stop. Mariah Carey, she okay, perfect example. Now you're kind of in my wheelhouse here. Mariah Carey was totally passing. I believe she intended to pass throughout her entire marriage with Tommy Mattola.

1:51:09 And then after that, she was like, oh, hold on. And she was all sister this and sister that and hanging out with Heavy D and the boys and doing all crazy shit. And she was acting black all of a sudden. And we all saw it and went, okay. And everyone thought she had lost her mind, Mo the way she was acting. I agree. I agree. And she was welcomed back. Let me explain to you what I'm saying. My viewpoint and the overall viewpoint of the quote-unquote black community are two different things. Sure. I call BS. I'm like, Mike, what are you doing? Mike, those are not Mike's kids.

1:51:49 Mariah Carey, she walked that racially ambiguous line where she could be anybody, anything to whoever, to anybody. That's a problem to me. But when you're generating that much revenue, the people over at BET, the people, you're saying they're not going to, they're going to embrace you. Yeah, it's hippie. And that's why it's bullshit, is what it is. I mean, okay, bullshit. Yeah, it is. Hypocritical bullshit. Yeah, you can't slip in and out. And like I said, I am a person. I have a standard and I don't deviate to

1:52:33 what feels what feels. No, and of course, and of course. And I appreciate that. And I appreciate that. But I guarantee you, there's a lot of people, executives at BET, who'll be bullshitting about passing. But then when it's Mariah Carey, she's going to do your premiere video, then all of a sudden it's okay for her to come back and be all black. That's my point. And that's and that can be black executives who were just hypocritical for money. So I just, you know, there you go. And they'll be the same ones that'll cancel a dark-skinned person for saying something important. Yeah. Bro, it's Mount Green. That's yes, that's the only color that. that matters. You got green, your color doesn't matter. That's right.

1:53:15 Yes. And we're seeing that with the riots and the protests. It's about the green. It's about the leverage. It's about how you speak. Yeah. So, I mean, you have no argument out of me on that. But then this, and then they do this weird thing like, yeah, we got black Mike. You know, like, when he started messing with his nose and his pigmentation, that's when he got weird. Like, you give us off the wall and thriller. And like, after that, y'all can have them. That's what he got after thriller. Personally, I think once he was doing stuff with Paul McCartney, it was already iffy, but that's just

1:54:00 me. Right, but it's just not the parents is not. Yeah. So where are we at? Okay, I guess let's wrap up with the lady that found her mom was passing. Number four. So now your mom decides to pass his way before she married your dad, but she marries your dad, who's in the army. Right. And you write openly in the book about how he was a bigoted man. He was. I think he was a typical man of his generation and his upbringing. You know, he was bigoted at home. You know, he would, if he saw something on television that inspired him, he might use a racial slur, or if he saw something in the newspaper.

1:54:44 Yeah. And so let me imagine how that made her feel. I think she, yeah, I mean, she would say, like, oh, hell, you know, you really shouldn't talk that way. But she wasn't like, oh, you cannot talk that way. It was more, you know, because she couldn't. Right. You think there's a reason. There's a reason I don't think she measured. Yeah, I think she had to, you know, dial it back a little because she didn't want to give herself away. So are you making the point that really the color is all, it doesn't really matter at all? It's really, it's really, because it's so obvious that everyone's inconsistent. Everyone's all over the map. It's ultimately, where are you really from? What is your real background?

1:55:27 Oh, you're not from Ivy League? You know, not so interested. You're not from this level of education. Not so interested. So, and this is maybe just dawning on me. So what you are, I think what you're telling me is it's really not about color at all, at all. Black and white is not about color. Right. Because Mike Tarico gets to say he's Sicilian. And I'm like, come on, bro. I mean, like, come on. Come on, man. Come on, man. Here's the deal.

1:56:08 It's not about, and that's the, I'm, yes. Okay, I got it. Well, all right. All right. So it's, it's taken two hours, but now I've, I think I finally, finally understand it. Because what you're showing is example after example after example where it doesn't really matter. You know, light-skinned brown, whatever. It's all ultimately about what someone perceives of your history, where you're coming from. And that's the perfect alley. And I'm going to oop it on home with this next clip, 23. With a lot of the people that live out here, you probably wouldn't take them to be black people. You might not look black, but you got the black blood into you.

1:57:09 Well, my name is Roberta Jeanette Ordler, but I go by bird for a nickname. I've lived here all my life. All my jobs that I had worked at, they took me to be white. And my best friend, she took me to be white. She was shocked when I told her I'm not white. I am black. I am a black person. And it was, well, you're not that. You think you are. No, I know I am. I was raised that way. But I was also raised, as mom would say, it doesn't matter what color your skin is. Now, as you know, this is my home. Over here is my daughter's home, Jessica.

1:57:50 Everybody else in here, we're all kin folks. That's how this community got to be mixed with white and black. It was from the black children. Our children going out, marrying white, and bringing them in. A lot of them was as light as I. I am, but we still said we were black. And then we had some real dark ones. But that's okay. They were black. We were black. So that's how this all got started. Wow. So it's so old. It's really so old-fashioned when most people are not even.

1:58:31 And I think this is true. I think most people don't really look at colour, skin color, and go, screw this. I mean, everyone has all different colors in their life. I don't think there's a single white person who only is around white, white, white, white people. But that's not the problem. It's all prejudice based upon where you're coming from and your perceived. And we should probably do one on speech as well, eventually. Oh, yeah. Speech is a lot of people. I couldn't even go. Yeah, you know, there would be an eight-hour show if we did speech in this one. That's another, that's another thing about passing is the speech. That's another form of passing.

1:59:14 Yeah. Yeah. But as this lady said, this lady, and now a reason why this clip to go to show, it goes both ways. Hey, but hold on a second. Hold on. Oh, hold on a second. So I was just thinking about this that the term passing is used in today's LGBTQQIAPK community. And so you can be a trans woman who passes. Really? Enlighten me. It's well, it's but it's but I mean, it's literally the term passing is used in the same manner. So, oh, you, you pass, but it's celebrated. You see what I'm saying? It's like it's, is it?

1:59:59 I think so. Hold on, hold on. So you're trying to tell me if a transgender woman, let me get make sure I get the terminology right. That's a man living as a woman, right? That's a transgender woman. And she called herself a cis woman. That would fly. That would be the equivalent to passing. Well, you've asked about putting a label on it. No, I'm just saying that would be the equivalent here. Not if she called herself cis, but if she was accepted and recognized as a cis woman without someone knowing

2:00:46 her history. That would be identified as, see, because that cistern, she would have to identify, of course. As what? As a cis woman. Or at least would. If she didn't let people know she was trans and only live her life as a cis woman, that would be the equivalent. Yeah, that wouldn't work, would it? No, I'm just saying that that's that would be the equivalent, yeah. Well, and self-identification, that's the that's the real rub. It is, you're right. Yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right.

2:01:25 Okay, thanks. Another data point. I'm just stacking it all up here, keeping my notes. No, that was a great, that was, that was, that was a, that was, that was good that you brought that up because this, this is, there's a lot of gray in this, in this thing. And the reason why this hit home with me, because I said every black church I went to, there's one or two people that, because when you look at, it's not jarring, but when you're in a congregation full of black people and a white appearing person walks in, you take notice. You know, like, oh, like, you said, who they're here to visit, or, you know, that kind of thing. Or who invited that guy? How'd you wind up here? I mean, like, yeah, it's just interesting. Not good or bad. It's just interesting.

2:02:10 But when you talk to them, and the reason why I noticed is I had a what you want to say, a surrogate grandparent. I mean, or a, you know, you know, like a play grandparent. His name was Bill Williams. And he will fight you if you called him white. Look completely like a white man. I mean, no melanin at all. So this hit, this hit home with me. And I guess we can get into the part two of this clip. My grandma, she has half Turk, half black. My grandpa was a white man. My mom registered me as black. My mom was a, she wasn't as fair complexed as I am.

2:02:55 She was a light tan brown. My dad, he has. German, Irish, white. Well, his mother was a white woman. His dad was a colored man. And then as I grew older and I got married and I had my children, I registered my children as black. Oh, I have found that. So that was here down the mountains. Most of them in this area goes as black. We've got maybe two, three families that consider theirselves being white. But the rest of us in here, we consider ourselves being black.

2:03:39 One thing I want to point out about this clip, and then we could move on. But notice that she referred to her grandfather as colored. Yes. Not black. Colored, yeah. So that was she saying that because he was mixed, a mixed race? That goes back to colored being colored means something totally different than black. Right. Yes. Because she made the distinction. She said, I'm black. But he's colored. Because I think she said her grandmother's white and he was colored. Right. Just point it out. Yeah. And then we said previously.

2:04:24 Jeez. Now we get into these tricky situations, like this next woman who discovered that she was white after 70 years. If you look through the pictures of Verder Wagner Bird's life in Newton, Kansas, it's a good one. She was the daughter of railroad porter Ray Wagner and his wife Edwina. Life was good. I'm comfortable with being a black woman. The couple adopted her back in the 1940s. She found out, but never questioned her race. But her story of privilege and progress turned over a shocking page. At age 70, she found out she was white. And I grew up not questioning

2:05:06 birth or anything else because it was never told to me that I was born white. Missouri adoption records show she was born Jeanette Beagle, the daughter of Earl and Daisy Beagle, Caucasian transients. Jeanette became a ward of the state after her father walked out on 10 kids and her mother fell nearly 30 feet in a trolley accident. Goodness. Now, where do you put her at? Yeah, right. Just to clear the fake outcome, maybe some people got lost in the story. Yeah. She's biologically white from her biological parents, but she was adopted by black parents. Right.

2:05:53 And she lived for 70 years. Yeah. And I'll bet she's a black woman. And I'll bet she had the entire that it was put into her bloodstream, even though she was adopted. I'm sure that the cultural part translated perfectly. It worked perfectly for her. She didn't know any better, right? Yeah. And the crazy thing, and that's why I said I'm not holding anything against her. Actually, the fact that she found out she still wants to be black. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Well, that's the thing. You know, that's the question:

2:06:33 is it your environment? Is it your DNA that's passed on from your ancestors that make you a certain way? I mean, if you grow up and you're a baby and you're being taught everything about black history and black culture and how you speak and your mannerisms is all from the lineage of your adoptive parents, shit, man. Yeah, you may not have the blood, but does it make any difference? And it's a weird saying, I don't know if it's in all communities, but I know in black communities that when you feed a child, they start to look like you. Have you ever heard that before? No, I haven't. I haven't. That's interesting. Yeah, so I guess that maybe it's just in.

2:07:13 Could be. Yeah, because to be honest with you, she looks like one of my great aunts. I hate this is one of the times that this episode is where we just audioed it. Doesn't get to see it. It's okay. But I'm giving you the play-by-play. But yeah, she looks like one of legitly like one of my aunts. Her mannerisms, the way she, you know, like you said, so all that's learned. And then it brings us back to the conversation: nature versus nurture. Well, yeah, nature versus nurture. Thank you. So there is proof then, I would say. I agree. So now. here's a question of conscience.

2:07:58 If she was adopted and lived her entire life as black with the culture and her family and the belief, if reparations come around, you're not going to cut her in? In my book, I do. That's what I would say. And that ends the argument once and for all. It's not about your skin color. That's a really good example. I like that a lot. What did you say? It was nature versus nurture. All right. Yeah, nature's versus nurture. Because remember that thing about that was passed down from slavery. Yes. And then in the nature, I forget the term they use, but it's in the genetics.

2:08:38 I'm sure a lot of the things she learned makes her perceive the world as a black woman. Sure. Not genetics. I mean, because she clearly is not genetically black, as far as we know. Right. Which, who knows? I mean, this thing is very simply soaked. But I want to hear more from her. I wouldn't go back to my birth name if I had to. Jeanette Beagle does not fit Verda Bird. Jeanette Beagle does not have an education. Jeanette Beagle has no Social Security money because she never worked. She never even went to kindergarten.

2:09:18 And Verda Bird, who was ripped from her white heritage, has definite opinions about Rachel Dolezal, the former NAACP leader who chose to be black. Why are you so upset with her? Because she lied about her race. I didn't lie because I didn't know. Verda Bird has other siblings. As a matter of fact, I spoke with one of her sisters. She says they don't talk about race at all. At the end of the day, Bird does acknowledge that she and Rachel Dolezal did both make a choice to be black, just for different reasons. Yeah, see, I don't think you get to do that. I don't think you get to do that.

2:10:01 I'm going to change my whole background. Or really, what Rachel Dolezal did is she just changed her skin color. She was still the same person raised by the same two parents, as far as I know. The reason I like this set of clips is that go to show you that her lineage to her, even though it's adoptive, is the lineage to her. So that's what I want people to take away from that clip. And passing's not a thing of the past because we have some different,

2:10:42 it's cropping up in new ways in society. But before we get there, I think we should thank some people. I like new money. I don't know if you do, but I hate old money that's wrinkled and dirty and got all the diseases on it. I like new money. And when I give, when I give things to people, I like to give stacks of money. It's fun. You ever had a stack of new money? Have you? You haven't? Have you? A little stack. Oh. And so I made the big stack of what was brand new. And I like brand new money. I just, I don't want any money around me.

2:11:26 It's not. I'd almost rather have a new one than an old 20. That's kind of dumb. But there's something about new money that excites you. You like $100 bills? Oh, yeah. I like old money too. Oh. Most beautiful thing on earth is $100 bill. I haven't seen a woman as good looking as a $100 bill. There's something about $100 bill that excites you. Well, new money or new value. This is where we like to thank our producers who have shown their support. And by the way, a lot of you are doing a lot of things to support the show with feedback, with comments, with ideas, suggestions.

2:12:03 It's really appreciated. And that's what it takes to put a good show together. We do it together, which is why we have no commercials, no commercial interest, no corporate money. This is all about the value that you receive and you want to give back to it. You want to contribute to the value. You can translate that into a number. And that is exactly what our top executive producer, Fernando de Los Reyes, de los Reyes did today with a fantastic $578.23. It was just like off the hook. He has a note here for us. I hope you're doing well.

2:12:43 The podcast from today was hot fire. Got me really excited. I'd like to become one of the first knights of the MoFax Podcast. podcast, accounting below. Let me guess, he's given a total of $1,000. Is that what's happened here? Yeah, that just puts him over the top. Puts him over the top. I wonder if the knights are going to be deacons or reverends. What is it? Why is it that I've never heard these reverends talk about? I'll write a separate longer email. I give my donation in the name of Jesus Christ. I think you're doing terrific work. I am re-listening to all the shows again. I believe it was an episode number 16 where a producer wrote, Mo, you've changed my perspective from new Jim Crow to Mofax perspective.

2:13:23 And Adam replies with an, oh, yes, my heart was touched. That encapsulates the way I feel now, too. Well, thank you very much, Fernando. And so we haven't really talked about this. What we're going to do for people who support the show up to certain levels. Are we prepared to talk about this? Are we going to figure this out in the next few weeks? Let's figure it out in the next few weeks because I want to make sure we do it right and really mean something to the people that actually, you know, I want to give them back value for their value. Yes. We just don't want to rush anything. Okay. But keep track of everything, everybody.

2:14:00 Very important that you do your own accounting. And Fernando, thank you again. You're our top executive producer for episode number 39. Also, executive producer Royon Jacob, who says, longtime listener, first time donor. Forgive me, Pod Father, for I have sinned. Thank you both for the enlightening information provided on this podcast. I squeal with glee every time the new episode pops up on my phone. Please accept this donation in the amount of $100 as a Lambda, Lambda, Lambda donation. The Tri Lambs. Guess which movie? Animal House? Nerds. Nerds. Nerds. That's right. I should have known. Please play a Joe Biden come on, man.

2:14:43 What? We don't have one of those. We don't have a come on, man. We have that. A new jobs karma. We have Mo Karma. He wants a job karma for the wife. If you can squeeze in baby making karma as well. Stay woke. He says, Yeah, I'm going to premiere our new actually. We have a new karma and we have, why don't I hit him with the new Woosa as well? We'll give a Woosa Karma combo. You've got Mo Karma. There you go. Which Mo Karma could be baby making karma as well. So I think if you just

2:15:32 Mo only has to glance at you and you're pregnant. That's how it works, apparently. John Swoboda, $100. Value for value. Hope you're well. Yes, we are, John. Thank you very much. Peter J. Boyle, also an executive producer, $100 from him. We need you. Moe. Stuff is getting crazy in Cali. Well, yes, we are here, and we'll be here every week breaking down everything we can. Elizabeth Johnson sends us $80.61 and says, Hey, Adam and Mo, thank you for this show. We've tuned in from the beginning and make sure to listen together whenever possible. The couple that pays attention together stays together.

2:16:08 Isn't that right? Definitely. Our donation breakdown is $50 for the inimitable content and $33.33 just in case Mo still needs to get his podcasting license. No, no, he's graduated from the podcasting school a long time ago. Stay healthy and vigilant. Dame Elizabeth of the Hudson Valley and Sir Big Johnson. Thank you both very much for your support and your executive producership for show 39. Eric Hochl, who I know is from Deutschland, and so nice to have him check in with $52. No note, but we appreciate it. And then our associate executive producers, which is $50 and up to $100.

2:16:47 Mark Jasper, Omega Project, just completed listening to 38. You ain't binary. Bravo, he says. Cassidy Eastwood, $50. And thank you very much, Cassidy. Also, associate executive producer is Whitey Hotep. Mo, I don't know if there's a lot important show online right now. Please don't stop. The information you're putting out is incredibly necessary. Thank you for your courage. Chad Belcher, $50, no note, but thank you, Chad. David Thorman says, keep up the awesome work with $50. Michael McGuirk says, love the show. Sent us $50 for that, the value you received. I think the work you're doing is really important.

2:17:30 Mo has a unique perspective that I haven't heard anywhere else. If Adam can find it, could he please play That's One Hot MILF Baby? Because I think we all need something to bring us together. If not, could I just have a Wusa Karma, please? Yeah, we want to kind of. of keep have our own things develop, I think is the way we'd like to see it. So we're building up a little stable here. So I'll give you a, I'll give you a special Wusa here as well. I'm sending you tons of good authenticity. Take that, take that, take that. You've got karma.

2:18:13 There you go. Let's see. We are on to the $50 from an anonymous donor who loves the show. Thank you very much. Jason Aubrey, the show's great. I've learned so much. Keep up the great work. Thank you for your courage. Sir Aubrey of Lower Arkansas with $50. Jeremy Dixon, value for value, says Jeremy in his note. I appreciate the deep dives and high production quality. The new audio setup sounds great. Thank you. We actually are on half great at the moment, but still doing our best to bring the best to you. Can't always fix all the technology. We have James Neemeyer with a 5-0 donation. So many, what is he saying?

2:18:55 So many, what's that I smell? The hell? That's from a movie house party. Watch house party. Long time ago, man. Was that kid and play house party? Yeah, kid and play with full force. That's just force force reference. Did full force say that? Yeah. It's not kid-friendly. What was Full Force? What was their song? What was their hit? I want it just for me. Was that Full Force? Full Force. Get busy one time. Yeah, that's 100. Something like that. Oh, geez, now I'm dating myself. All right, James, thank you very much. $50, your 5-0 donation.

2:19:35 Eric England, $42.24. Nice palindrome says, Adam and Mo. A little something to say. Thanks for the amazing content. The last two episodes, incredible research and analysis. This donation is actually, what is this? 21, oh, 21, 12 times 2 in honor of the late, great Neil Purt of Rush, who passed in January. I got hit in the mouth by Adam's JRE, oh, the Joe Rogan experience appearance, and then hit in the Wusa shortly after that. It's been a real, wow, this is great. So from Joe Rogan to, I guess, no agenda to

2:20:17 MoFax. What a great path. I love that. That's a job overlap. I love that. So keep up the great work from the great state of Oklahoma, where we are as free as Texas, but we've got legal weed and casinos. Damn, I should come visit. Thank you, Eric. $39 from Computer Solutions and Services. And this is the show number club. DH Slam of the God in Waiting is another one waiting to be some kind of royalty for the show. Mo, we got to figure that out. And not in waiting. You are a DH Slammer the God. Well, he is. Yes. DH Slam of the God is set in stone. Done. $33.30 from Tyler Rapp. Absolutely love this podcast, Tyler says. Found it after listening to some host of some other podcast.

2:21:02 Can't remember his name. Hmm. On Joe Rogan experience. Adam, smack me. Wait how we do identify who hit who, making us all listen to this podcast. Also, Lincoln was a dick, he says. Side note: can I get a Mo Karma fail with a new Mo Karma followed by a goat Mo Karma? I felt like I had to donate here first before I pursue my knighthood. Keep it up. I'll give you the, I can give you a Mo Karma with the goat, no problem. You've got Mo Karma. I'm sending you tons of good art energy. Take that. That was quite a mess.

2:21:46 Sorry about that. Tyler, you'll have to live with that one. $30 from Michael Lucius. And he says reparations should be given, not stolen. I think we agree on that. Pascal Silly or Sali, $25 with no note, but thank you. Elvis Rosenberg, again, a regular donor. Another $25. Thank you, Elvis. It's really appreciated. Chef Elvis, I should say. I know by now. $23.97 from Daniel Furneaux. Discovered you discovered your show on another one. Suddenly very lucrative podcast. What is that? Oh, Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan, of course. $100 million man. I don't know.

2:22:28 I don't think about these things. I seriously don't think about that. Thanks for adding another interesting lane to my listening habits and keep up the good work. Thank you, Daniel. William Bullock, $23.97. Love the podcast. podcast from Buckeye, Arizona. Cortland Richardson, $20 coming to you from a gay black dude named Ben. If you have a problem figuring out whether you're voting for me or Trump, then you ain't black. Wow. Thank you, Mo and Adam, for what you do. Hashtag Ados. Nice to meet you, Cortland. I love these people who come from the Rogan people are quality people. Okay, I tell you, they are nice people who have hooked up to our little network here.

2:23:10 John Mahala, $20 from John. Been catching up on old episodes and I'm almost current. Long overdue donation attached. Keep up the eye-opening education. Thank you both for your courage. P.S. If possible, would love some of that Mo Karma to thwart off the Governor Tom Wolf-induced Pennsylvania COVID quarantine blues. Yeah, we got that for you. You've got Mo Karma. Stephan or Stephen, I think Stefan P. Babbick, $20. Thank you. No note further. Rebecca Zymitz says, thanks, Adam and Moe. Then we have George Kunath with $20.

2:23:51 Mo and Adam, thank you for your courage. I appreciate the insight into the quote black community experience and the things I never would have realized or thought about being a Milky White Midwesterner. Twice the insight without any of the pesky BS and amygdala swelling of the M5M. On a side note, I was listening to MoFax 38 and you guys had a donation of a dub and weren't sure where it came from. Well, that was me, actually. I believe it is from the $10 bill slang name Sawbuck from the old style of Sawhorse, which had two sets of legs lashed into an X shape, which

2:24:28 approximated the Roman numeral for the number 10. Wow. When the $20 bill was introduced, it was called the Double Sawbuck from its doubling of the value of the original Sawbuck. The name Double Sawbuck underwent the usual shortening of most slang terms and reduced to dub. I'm no linguist, but this is what I've learned, what I've heard, and haven't found an alternative explanation. Okay, I like it. That's Sir Colin, the friendly fat man. Oh, that's his real modern. Gotcha. Well, I do have an alternative. Okay. And I'm surprised you didn't know it. What I found out was dub is short for double dime for a double dime sack. Double dime, so it's a double dime bag of weed. Yes. Now, why are you super?

2:25:13 What are you putting in my shoes, Mo? Why would I know all this? I'm just saying. I don't buy from street dealers. I haven't delivered. What are you talking about? Why would I know these things? I pay my weed with Venmo. Please. Don't insult me. $20 from Steve Edwards, who sent it through Pop Money, which is working great. Thanks for the Rona Less episodes. 36, he means there. Please continue to take as long as you need to bake these episodes. They are so worth it. Thank you for your courage there. Steve, and thank you for your patience. Scott Evers or Avers, no note from him, but $20. Thank you. Anonymous, $11.11.

2:25:54 Aaron Hinkle, that is Aaron the Flying Nut Hatch in PA, who says, sends us $11.11. Says, thank you, Mo and Adam. Very grateful for this show. I enjoy educating others with the invaluable info I learned here. For those who enjoy the MoFax Intro and Outro Music, I've created a Spotify playlist that you are welcome to follow. Some of the songs are missing from Spotify, but it's otherwise comprehensive and in episode order. Can I please have tons of good energy and Mo Karma? Thank you for your courage. Aaron, the flying nuthatch. And I guess you can look that up on Spotify. Look for the Mofax playlist. You've got Mo Karma.

2:26:38 Hold on a second. Now we're here. I mean, it's late anyway. I might as well take a look and see if I can actually find this on Spotify. Does that really exist? Do you think that? Have you looked? Have you looked? I think so. I think so. I think I've heard. I think he hit me on Twitter about this. Actually, about a couple songs. Let me see. Mo. Let me see. Other playlists. Oh, you have to go look at playlists. Okay. So I'm not sure how to. All right. That's something for after the show. I haven't looked at Spotify in so long. I have no idea how it works anymore. $10.10 from, let's see,

2:27:18 JED Enterprises. Ah, so that's why they say we have to vote for the lesser of two evils. Yes, binary donation. You got it, JED Enterprises. And thank you for your support. Steve Novak, $10. No note. Judy Schwartz, thank you, Mo and Adam. You've put. You've put together another great informative show. You're making the selection interesting again with her $10 in support. Paul Hooper, $10, no note. Thank you for your courage, says James Chapco with $10. Jill Stasiak says, Mo, can I tell people I have a black friend now, or is that reserved for the $1,000 level? I think for $8.33, you can certainly say you know someone who's black.

2:28:03 William Hawthorne, no note with $5 in support. And William Foreman, our final producer, coming in at $5, also no note. Thank you all so much for supporting the work, especially really, especially the value that you're assigning to what we're doing. And your notes are incredibly, it's heartwarming. I really love hearing it. A lot of work goes into this, some late nights, as certainly on Mo's side. And so all the support and all the value that you can send back to the show is incredibly appreciated. And to do that, go to mofacts.com or if you want to go straight to our donation page, it's mofundme.com, M-O-E-F-U-N-D-M-E.com, mofundme.com, and support us for episode 40, which is coming up.

2:28:55 Well, we dive off into the cringe portion of the show with these next to the clips. Woohoo! To show a new form of kind of passing this happening, in my opinion. Actually, this is a value clip that somebody sent me. Okay. And man, by the time I listen to it, the cringe is so heavy. This is from the conservative twins. I don't know if you ever heard of them before. No, I don't think so. And this is the African American Lie Exposed One. What's going on? Where the f are you? So you're telling me you have not a fighter. Am I not black enough now? I'm not an African American. I'm an American. Okay, and

2:29:45 I've never been to Africa. I've never been to Africa. Hey, look here. Y'all didn't listen to what the young man said. This is my boy, Joe Patrick. Do you know what it is to be African? It just means your nationality, the way you were born. You could be white and be African. It just means you were born in Africa. But African is not a race. It's a nationality. You guys are Americans and you don't even realize it. You walk around calling yourself an African-American. My question is this: why do black people in America show such a strong allegiance for Africa? You wasn't born there. You're not African. Yeah, right? Actually, your ancestors was bought there and sold to the white man.

2:30:28 Yeah, by their own people. Yeah, Africans captured your ancestors and sold them to white people. Yeah, but y'all got this such strong allegiance to a country you've never been. You don't even know the culture. You don't dress like Africans. You don't behave like Africans. You're not African. You're just a stupid American. Like, now, if you was born in Africa, right? And you came to the U.S. and became a U.S. citizen, you could call yourself African-American, but you left that shithole for a reason. I've seen these guys. These guys are black, right? They're brown. They're dark-skinned, whatever the hell they are. No, no, no, they're not dark-skinned. They're actually very fair-skinned and

2:31:13 have phenotypes, you know, of light eyes and that kind of thing. Oh, okay. This is one thing, they're like the male version of Diamond and Silk. Well, actually, just listening to them, I wouldn't pick up immediately that they're black or brown or light-skinned or anything. Right, right. It's very, very kind of bland to me. That, that, yeah. Reason why I cringed is they're right, but not on purpose. Uh, our lineage is the most understood thing there is

2:31:55 technically. If you believe science, everybody's from Africa. I mean, that's the origin of everybody's origin. The problem I have is I've picked up this weird vibe, and I've heard it said before. I'm not going to put this on them, but I've heard it said before that people say this, I'm an American, not whatever your lineage is. That doesn't kind of fly because it's. it's a you can have an or a lineage and a nationality at the same time.

2:32:37 One doesn't replace the other. And that's why it's a weird, I mean, it's like an Asian person that's born in America, right? They're American, true, but their culture and their lineage is something totally different. Well, right. But then if you're going to do that, then you then you need to say that I would be, I guess, a European American, I guess. Exactly, exactly. Well, that's the other thing. Why is that the only group that's kind of not like hyphenated? What, European American? Yes. I've never heard that hyphenation used before.

2:33:15 No. No. So that goes, it goes back how I correct. I'm just saying that I hear people use this, and it's kind of like the same thing. It's kind of like you're kind of denying your lineage. And like I said, not every black person comes from Africa. No. No. In fact, you were not born in Africa. You were not born in Africa. So I know. Africa's not a nation. I mean, first of all, thank you. Another point. Another good point. Which I have another problem with African American, and that's why I never use that term. But if I use ADOS, people still like that. They don't have a problem with it.

2:34:00 Yeah, because it factors in my nationality and my lineage. Yeah. So that's why it hit a sweet spot. But I'm just saying, yeah, I kind of, I cringed on this one. Yeah, I can understand. Yeah. But it's true. If I say, hey, it's Adam, it's Mo, we're two American dudes. That's true. There's no problem with that. That's true. That's true. Because that speaks to my nationality. Yes. Now, my nationality is not my lineage, which is a totally. No, I'm going to say that. But this is. So there's something to be said for who gives a fuck. I'm American. You're American.

2:34:40 The Chinese lady's American. The red man's an American. I think that's where we're supposed to get to. Maybe not. I mean, no one has to deny where they come from. But from an economic standpoint and from a nation standpoint, I like us being Americans and not split into all these separate little groups, my personal opinion. Right. And the way you see this is the Olympics, where you never see any black people go back to Africa to compete on the African team. Right. You never see that. I've never seen that. That's such a good point. It's like, you know, in the soccer players

2:35:25 in Europe, so they'll be from all over the place. But the Portuguese or the Spanish or Italian player, they may be playing for big money at a British club. But when it's time for, you know, for the world championships, they all go to their own country and they play on their own national team. And you see that in the NBA as well. I mean, if you're from, but I'm just saying, I see this kind of a cloaking mechanism to not embrace your lineage. And anything that does that, and I'm going to say this, and we can move to the next clip.

2:36:07 The quote-unquote ADOS lineage is so misunderstood. Yeah. I think that could be a tangible in itself helping us figure out who we really are. Wow. Money donated to really figure out who we are. I'm all for that. If a candidate would say that, I'm willing to put up X amount of billion dollars to help these people figure out where they came from, you might get my attention. Because I think that that will cure more than cash. Wow. That's a big, well, we should talk about that next time. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we can move on to the second clip. But I just wanted to say that lineage is huge. Lineage is huge to me.

2:36:50 Got it. Yeah. So we're going to the second clip from the conservative twins. All right, here we go. They're proud to be here. Yeah. Like, I'm American. I'm a black American. Damn. Right? I'm not African American. You want to play African? Go to Africa and play Africa for a while. Those Africans are going to laugh at you. Look at this dumb nigga. I wish I could go back to America with him. I mean, come on. You're not African. You wasn't born in Africa. You know what I'm saying? You're not African. African. You're an American. Once you start acting like one, you're black, like many people in Africa are. But that don't make you African. I mean, did you learn anything from Elizabeth Warren?

2:37:36 You look all ridiculous. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You can identify as a woman. It doesn't make you a woman. You can identify as a man from China. Don't make it Chinese. Yeah. Oh, that's a whole nother can of worms that are open in there. I don't even want to go there with them. Yeah, we can't go there. I'm just saying that. This. Oh, God. It made me. Well, no, when I listened to it, yeah, I understand. Now, gosh, it's so confusing. We're so hung up. We should all just be blind. Yeah, you should be confused after this show. That's the point. Because none of it makes any sense.

2:38:17 Exactly. From no one, from nobody's side. It's like a brain thing that we've all been jammed into us, and it's not, and it's not good for anybody. No, no one benefits from this crap. Well, you think that was bad. Uh-oh. 30. People try to tell me I'm an African-American, but that's not true. African-Americans are loud, rude, obnoxious, and just altogether fat and ugly. If you ask me, my 16-year-old daughter has a very out-of-control identity crisis. She truly believes she's white. When Treasure was five years old, I've noticed Treasure was having issues with her race. She wouldn't play with the black children. Treasure would mangle or destroy her black dolls.

2:39:01 She would cut their heads off, pull off their arms. She would pretend that they were the white doll's slaves. My mom bought me beautiful white dolls instead of buying me the ugly, big-lipped black doll. I felt mortified. I was a single mom trying to support a family. We couldn't afford to stay in our beautiful home. We moved from a mostly white, affluent neighborhood to the city, which was mostly African American. From the suburbs to the hood. I thought you weren't going to do trauma stuff anymore. Mo. Now I'm all triggered again. No, she's not. And the thing is, she would be considered dark-skinned. I mean, because she's my shade. Right.

2:39:42 Which, which for people, that's a Nutella color. The scrumptious Nutella color. So, so. I've never seen your scrumptious Nutella. I don't even know how light or dark you are. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's just for people that want to have an idea what color I am. But for her to say this, I'm like, wow, this is this. I ended. These are the last few clips. So I ended the show this way to show you people can be so warped in the head. This is a woman that would be considered, let's say, a condoleezer rice color, right? Right. For people to say that, but she thinks she's white.

2:40:25 Yeah. Straight up and down escape from Dr. Phil. And that's why your parents brought her to Dr. Phil because she's got a problem. Oh, she has a huge problem. 31. I was not anything like other black people. They were all hood rats and they were all ghetto. They all act like monkeys. Her school was predominantly African American. She started to say very racist things in public. Like, I hate black people's hair. They're dirty. She would call them the N-word. It made me feel good to put down an African-American person because it helps them stay in their place. All the African-American kids that I was around were all ugly looking and losers. They're all gorillas.

2:41:05 My daughter is a racist against her own race. What I find the most disturbing is my daughter is consumed with the Ku Klux Klan. It just shakes me to my core. Treasure, have you ever reached out to the KKK? I have their number on speed now. Call KKK. They keep me like current on updated events. I've had a KKK's number since I was like in middle school. Greetings from the loyal white knights of the Ku Clubs plan. Well, shame on Dr. Phil for putting this crap on the air. Shame on him. I agree. Shame that. And listen to. I like white people. They're monkeys.

2:41:48 Come on. The reason why I do this is if you could take a black child and make her say black keep black people in their place. Where is that? Where did she learn this from? She didn't just pick this up on her own. Well, this has been, I'm sure this wasn't the only TV show she did. It sounded a little funky to me. Yes, it sounds like it's a tension. attention-grabbing. Yeah, it's jacked up a little bit. Yeah. And listen, if you just say this, just say you got the KGK on SpeedDial, because of course she doesn't.

2:42:29 Well, she called him. Somebody has something. I'm sure they're in the phone book. I mean, I'm sure you can give them a call if you want to. Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm just going to show you how powerful mind control is. Either way, if it was staged, exactly. To even stage it is lame. Right. So I just want to show that my whole point is it's all bullshit. But that also had very little to do. That had very little to do with color. That was really about lineage. A lot of what that kid was saying. Yeah, but she's trying to pass. Oh, no, I understand. I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the tie-in.

2:43:11 That kid needs a whooping. But yeah, oh, man. I don't know how she made that far. I'm just saying. The mama dropped the ball a big time. Yeah, well, she keeps that. She keeps that up. She'll meet the wrong person one of these days. She'll get that whooping. Well, as you always know, I'm not going to leave people triggered, traumatized, or on a negative note. So I found this last clip, and it was hilarious. No more setup needed. Jay Smooth. I can't not tease Jay about the kind of like brother way he was taught of talking, you know, like, hey, with the rap music in the background and like getting people.

2:43:50 I'm a rap guy. Yeah, I know, but it's kind of, it's another interesting, funny thing about race. Like, there would be some people that feel that you co-opted something like that. And other people might feel like, well, that's his background, and that's really cool, too. These are kind of things. Yo, like, you know, yeah, if somebody takes my wallet, I mean, it's really interesting since I'm actually black, but you assume otherwise. And this is the sort of awkwardness we can look at. Absolutely. Yeah, so that happened. Where was that from? Chris Hayes. So we have this guy. I mean, he appears to be

2:44:31 a white guy. But she played herself. It was like, yeah, you're a co-opted, blah, blah, blah. And he actually is a black guy. He identifies as ropes. Rips? Oh, my goodness. Well, you know, thank you, Moe. It was very difficult for me to kind of get into where you were taking this when we first started off. But having stuck with it, and I'm glad I did, it really brought home to me all the things we're doing wrong about this in society. We're really approaching this from the wrong perspective, I think.

2:45:11 And with we, I would say it's politicians and media. That's really, they're doing it. And they're harmful, hurtful, and taking advantage of all of us. It's kind of my conclusion after this. Right. I hope this is another nail in the binary thinking casket. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. And we'll reveal as much truth as we can on the next episode of Mo Facts with Adam Curry. That'll be a big one for us, episode number 40. And that'll probably be in a week from now on, Tuesday. Mo is moving. He's got a family move to do.

2:45:54 So amidst all of that, we'll also somehow be able to get a show out to you. And I hope that this was helpful for people to just kick back, relax, and think for a little bit about what is really going on and where are we coming from. And more importantly, where do we need to go all together? And remember to support the work if you can at mofax.com. Go directly to our donation page at M-O-E-F-U-N-D-M-E.com, mofundme.com. And until next week, Mo, I'll see you then. All right. See you later, Adam. Take care, everybody.

2:46:47 Despite the heat, it'll feel alright. And wait, don't you know in generated the days in the summer in the city in the summer in the city?