Marina Collins #8 - How To Manage Anxiety In You And Your Children

00:00 In this episode of Team Super Dad, I speak to Marina Collins, hypnotherapist, firewalk instructor, anxiety expert and a mum. It's great to have a mum on Team Super Dad. Enjoy this role theme. Welcome to Team Super Dad. Real dads creating their best lives ever. More time, more money, more fun. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad. Hello and welcome to the Team Super Dad podcast. My name's Johnny Jensen, founder and creator of the Team Super Dad Community and Program, the program for single dads kick-starting their life and recovering, creating their best life ever, really a fresh start.

00:48 Time to have more time, more fun, more money and create magical memories with their children. If it's your first time here, welcome. And if you're coming back, then it's a real pleasure to have you. As always, it's often as possible, a weekly podcast. We speak to dads, dads with success stories, entrepreneurs, property people, health experts, nutritionists, coaches. And this week is also an anxiety specialist. I've known Marina for, oh, a good while now, probably four or five years. We learnt, I did my firewalk instructor training weekend and her husband and her, Barry's her husband, they were

01:34 part of the crew running the weekend. That's the weekend with the Fire of Walking UK and Steve Consolves. So if you are new to the podcast, then like I said, welcome. We talk about just how to kickstart your life, how to put it all back together. You know, so many dads, they're just getting on with things. And for you, that might be, you know, the reality of keeping a brave face, like carrying on, doing everything you're doing. But maybe inside you're feeling just a little bit shell-shocked, a little bit hollow. Perhaps you just want to have more fun in life. Well, I was thinking the same thing. And that's really how my inspiration for Team Super Dad came about. If you do enjoy the podcast, then please go and like us on iTunes or wherever you listen.

02:19 If you're on YouTube or Facebook, then like and share away as much as you can. My light just went out on the other side there. So if it suddenly looks a bit dark there, if you're watching the video, then that explains why. And yes, it's on Facebook and YouTube that you can watch this. I've had a great week. I've been working with a new client. That's my digital marketing work. A couple of days a week, I'm going to be there now for a while. Lights come back on. And that's just given me a little bit more flexibility around, I guess, just taking some stress off more financially than anything else. As I launched Team Super Dad and get the rebuild program running, getting, you know, groups of dad coming into that.

03:00 That's, you know, the rebuild program runs in three sections. That's reconnecting, then the building blocks, then the living life fully. It's a five-week program and just leads into the ongoing work that is coming down the line in Team Super Dad HQ, which is the 12-month Team Super Dad course. But you don't have to be on one of those courses. We've got the Facebook group, which is growing week by week. And I'd love you to come over there and join us. Simply search Team Super Dad on Facebook and you will see that come up. There's a few more different types of podcasts coming down the line. I've just been trying some walk and talk podcasts to, I know, just to make the most of some of my time and get some of those thoughts I'm having on my walks out to you.

03:42 If you're a dad, if you're even a mum, as you'll see from today's interview, and you think you've got something that's really empowering for other parents, then I love to hear from you. Come on the podcast. If you search up bit.ly, that's bit.ly forward slash TSD briefing. Exactly as it sounds. That's bit.ly bit.ly forward slash TSD briefing. You'll see a full sheet of all the information about the podcast and how you can come on and be a guest. So without further ado, I could warbl on forever, as you know, in these little intros. Going to kick in to today's show. It's with Marina Collins. I know you're going to love it. I'll see you on the other side. Enjoy.

04:28 Hello, good afternoon. Good morning. Welcome wherever you are in the world, whatever time it is. This is the Team Super Dad podcast and I am thrilled to be here with Marina Collins, who is a wonderful woman. It's so great to have mums on the podcast. As I say to all the Team Super Dad members, this is not about creating a world where we don't have strong relationships with awesome women. In fact, that's everything this is about. There's so much joy to be had in life by hanging out with like-minded, positive positive people. people and creating both powerful friendships and then obviously possible relationships and falling back in love.

05:07 And Marina's got all that in her story. So it's great to have you here. Why don't you take a moment to introduce yourself and then we'll crack on with the chit chat? Cool. Okay, so I'm Marina Collins, obviously. I'm a hypnotherapist and a firewalk instructor. I'm mother of two, grandmother of three. And as I was just saying, you know, I was a single mum for a while, married a single dad, you know, so I've got the experience from both sides.

05:44 It's just something actually that you said in the intro as well that sprung your mind. That hopefully we'll get a chance to clear up as well and chat on. So yeah, hypnotherapists, I specialize in anxiety, male or female. Men need to be able to find someone to talk to as well. And so I'm here for anyone who needs that help. That's brilliant. And that's actually how I came to tee this conversation up today. So, you know, this really is a podcast episode on Team Super Dad about coping, moving beyond anxiety.

06:22 But also, for me, I was chatting. I always liked when I've had a subject kind of hit me square in the face two or three times in quick succession. I like to think that's a sign that I need to dig into it. And I was chatting to someone and she was talking about her anxiety. And I was just, I just found myself thinking quite like, get over it, or, you know, how can it be that bad? And then, and then I and then I thought about how I thought to myself about being depressed and you know, the same get over it, it doesn't matter. And actually, the last thing you can do when you're that person is just forget about it and get over it. And the worst thing you can do, if we relate it to depression, is try and do it on your own anyway.

07:07 Yes. Just gonna, it's just gonna get worse. Yeah. So, um, yeah, so and then and then one of your uh posts popped up in my feed. So let's let's go back a bit. And that's that's actually how we know is through the firewalking community. That's right, yes. Um you and Mary are like integral to the uh to the to the fire walking. You what your guys we're Phoenix Firewalk, um, but Barry is part of the training with Firewalking UK. And I go along for the fun. Yeah, because it's very Monty Python-like because you can get it slightly wrong and you're either the people's front of Judea or the Judea's people's front

07:46 splitters. Yes, yes. So it's great. How did you, you know, how did it was firewalking just I mean, well, just for everyone listening, firewalking, it wasn't something I just did because I saw it on Tony Robbins. In fact, far from it. It was, I only came to later find out that was a key part of Tony Robbins' stuff. And I randomly met Steve when he reached out to me and was asking about social media help and thought he'd met me at a networking event. And me in my way just carried on talking, thinking, in a minute, I'm going to remember how I know this bloke. And it got to the point where I had to say, I'm going to know who you are. But thankfully, the conversation had progressed so far that we ended up becoming friends. And that was my introduction to firewalking.

08:27 And it really has been a transformational element of my life over the last five years, which have been quite turbulent. So it's been a real high point. How did you get into firewalking? Well, we Barry and I are both hypnotherapists and we were doing a mentorship program up here in Scotland and some of the other guys that were doing it were as well had one of them had mentioned firewalking. I was like, what's that? You know, so he explained what it was. And I thought, oh, I might like to do that. And a friend of mine was actually fundraising at the time. And we'd done charity nights, you know,

09:08 quizzes, all the usual kind of things and things like that. And I said, do you want to do a firewalk? Oh, I couldn't ask people to get sponsored money. I don't want to do that. I went, let me organize it. And it just so happened another friend I know had just recently done one. So I got in touch with her, asked her who did it, set it all up, got it all arranged. And in the March, we did our first fire walk. And, you know, people are all doing that whole you're crazy. You want, yeah, here's extra money. You know, don't involve me. So we got such a buzz out of it. We'd raised so much money for her. She'd smashed our Target.

09:52 There's 20 odd of us. And it was a fantastic experience. And then the next day, it was like that, I was still on a high. My god, this I need this feeling all the time. Um, so being the kind, caring, compassionate wife that I am, I suggested Barry go learn because I thought, well, if he goes and learns, then I get to walk on fire. Um, so he phoned up the guy, and the guy says, I'm going to give you a number, ask for Steve. Yeah, okay, um, and that's Steve Consalves, Steve Consalvez, yeah. So, he phoned Steve, um, and Steve's like, Yeah, there has to be a place in the next course.

10:34 And this was obviously in the March, which is in May, and Barry thought, I was thinking more September. I noticed you do one then. Well, yeah, but you know, Steve's charm. Um, yeah, so Barry ended up going on the course in May, and every day he was phone and he would tell me all about it, and I'm like, Oh my god, you know, it's just not sneezing, you know, it's just everything. Um, and then when he came back, he says, You really need to do it, and I thought, No, that's way out of my comfort zone. I had a lot of my own stuff to deal with, yeah, um, you know, because I had depression and you know, things like that.

11:10 Um, I don't found out recently that I used to have anxiety, um, you know, so I had my own stuff to deal with, and I'm like, that's just no, why would I do that? Just to be clear, for someone listening, that is a firewalk instructor training weekend, right? Yes, yes, that's instructor training, but it's more than that, isn't it? Oh, it's so much more than that, yeah, so much more than that, um, and it's about getting to know who you are. Um, so uh, after chatting with um somebody else, because I have just trust issues with guys, you know, due to my previous relationship, yeah, um, you know, and I thought, I don't know, so hang on, so what's what's the relationship? How's that related because it was guys running the course? Um, no, but well,

11:54 because I knew some of the stuff like the trustful, I knew about the trustful, right? Okay, and things like that, and I'm thinking, there's no way I could let anybody do that, yeah, I don't trust anyone enough. So, so let me listen. So, so let me just give some context to people listening, okay? The firewalk instructor training weekend, right? It's called The Fit, and it stems back to a guy called Tolly Burkan, who is out in California. He's an American guy. If you want to read more about him, then his book was called Dying to Live and Let It Be Easy and Extreme Spirituality. Yeah, so he's just an amazing bloke, and his story is really accessible from attempting suicide to

12:37 failing twice, failing, like seriously attempting suicide and failing twice. I've been a horrific car crash as well. Yes, that car crash blind me getting flung 20 meters down the road and hit by a taxi in New York or something. I can't remember. The car is an absolute wreck. It was an absolute right. So, so what Tolly's done, and you can find his videos on YouTube. It's, you know, some people don't like the idea of personal development and firewalking in itself, you don't naturally put that subject into personal development. But for dads listening in particular, you know, if you want to find a way to access a breakthrough, a breakthrough in

13:17 your confidence, a breakthrough in your ability to say yes or believe in yourself, like a self-belief, let alone a breakthrough in personal development. Firewalking gives you an access to that in a way that it sort of bypasses some of the information and taps straight into the emotional psyche. And the fit is a three days, three and a half days, something? Four? Thursday. Might even be, yeah, Thursday to Sunday, yeah. So the fit, when you go on the fit, yes, it's called the firewalk instructor training course, but actually it's it's just it is a breakthrough four days in in getting to know yourself and getting to know your your what you're really capable of and um steve invited me on

14:03 it i was i was i was post i was out of the drama of the divorce but still in the pain of it and i didn't know i'd lost track of who i really was like i couldn't i couldn't get an access to it yeah and what it was about a month after the the the fit weekend and bearing in mind you do lots of firewalks the trust fall that marina just mentioned is literally falling off a platform and having people catch you um and and definitely other stuff that that you know it's fair to say there are surprises in the weekend and it's and it's fully appropriate there's surprises because that's where you get confronted and that's where you break through um but it was about a month afterwards that you know i was pretty much looking at myself in the mirror going

14:48 something's different Like, I'm not quite back, but I feel I feel myself again. And, and that was one of the most powerful aspects of the fit weekend for me was it was like a shedding, like a shedding of the drama. And, and I, and I believe that fire walking is so much part of that. So, when people say to me, bit like they said to you with the with the charity thing, oh, there's no blooming way I'm doing that, are you mad? And I say to them, guys or gals, it's not about the, it's not about the walk, it's not, it's not about how hot the coals are, it's it's about so much more than that. And I'm sure that's why it's part of your work now, yeah, yeah.

15:31 Well, that's it. I mean, it do you know, like, even when I, because I see clients on a one-to-one basis for anxiety and other issues, um, but if I feel the need, I'll bring out my glass walk, you know, um, because it's as you say, it's not about walking the coals, and glass isn't about walking by the way, that's broken glass, yeah, broken glass of broken glass which you are actually able to walk across, yeah. And you know, and when they do that, they're like, Yeah, okay, yeah, I get what you're saying, I can do this, I can, you know, because part of part of things that I do, it's not like there's a magic wand a wave, and then suddenly you're not anxious anymore, okay?

16:16 Um, obviously, I work with the unconscious mind, the subconscious mind, whatever it is you want to call it, but there's also work that you have to do at a conscious level, yeah, totally. Okay, let's let's do this then, right? Let's let's get into the into the anxiety stuff at the beginning of the conversation, and we'll talk about your kids and Barry's kids and your experiences of all that at the end. So, what is anxiety? Why do people get anxious? Like, what, what, what's the difference between someone just feeling a bit worried about something and someone who's got anxiety? Okay, so we're born with two fears: sudden loud noises and fear of falling.

16:56 Okay, that's just everybody has that. Um, anxiety is when you the amygdala gets stuck in fight or flight. Obviously, we need we needed fight or flight back in the olden days to fight off the woolly mammoth and the saber-toothed tigers, you know. And what happens is when it goes into that state, and we do still need some of that, obviously. Um, but when it gets stuck in there, that's when it becomes anxiety. Um, so what happens is when you go into fight or flight, um, all the other organs start to shut down, and the adrenaline everything goes to your legs and your arms, and right. So, you're either ready to fight or you're ready to flee. Okay, um, can you, I'll show you my little, yeah, go for it.

17:40 My little so for those on the podcast, uh, Marina is holding up like a coloured spiky ball, we'll put some pictures in the shadows. It's an expandable. So, what happens is you're you've got your amygdala and you get a little frightened, it goes, well, it expands and then resets. Okay, yeah, so with someone with a phobia, for example, it'll expand and it'll be stuck because they're now like, oh, I can't see spiders, I can't do this, but you know, whatever, right? So, so, so, Maria's like got this little ball when she pulls it open, it gets really big, and and so, yeah, I mean, asthmatics have this in their in their lungs, the oxygen thing that in their lungs that helps us normally breathe, it expands and then it kind of cramps and gets stuck outwards.

18:24 And that's what an asthma pump will do: it will relax that and allow them to breathe again. So, when people get an anxious thought or into a fear, so that that thing, so the amygdala, the amygdala, amygdala, the amygdala kicks in, but instead of it appropriately kicking in and then relaxing, it gets stuck. Or, or what happened? Well, with phobias, it gets stuck with anxiety. What it does is it's very hard to see this, obviously, it's constantly, but it pumps fast, it pulses, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. People with anxiety, they do things really fast, you know, it's like, oh, good, rush about, and you know, everywhere their hands are going fast, they're talking faster, moving really, really fast.

19:10 And your amygdala is kind of like that. It just, you hear that, so frantic panic, yeah, you know, so with anxiety, it gets stuck in that, you know, that fight or flight, and it's like, but what if this happens, and what if that happens? And I can't do this, and I can't do that, you know, and you start then getting all those negative thoughts and worrying about the future and what have happens. And, you know, it's that whole, you know, you think about the comfort zone pictures that you see. You know, you've got a circle, which is the little one, which is your comfort zone, and then the big wide world out there that you're frightened frightened to. to go into.

19:46 Yeah, um, you know, so you're stuck in that comfort zone because you're frightened to go out into that big wild world because your anxiety might kick in and you won't be able to go into a shop, you won't be able to go social anxiety, can't go to pubs, can't you stop going out with friends? That's what happened to me. I stopped going out with friends, yeah, you know, people who love and care for you most look forward to seeing you, and you find reasons to fear seeing them. Yeah, why is anxiety seemingly more prevalent now? Why don't why do more people seem to be talking about I suffer from anxiety? I think two things.

20:22 I think people are more aware of it now through because of social media. And you know, before way back in the olden days, before we had internet, we couldn't find these things out and we weren't sure. And the doctor, which is got all your depressed, you know. But with social media, you're more aware of it, and people are more open to talking about it now as well. Is there a danger that people talk themselves into having an anxiety problem? So they're a bit of a worrier. Then they meet someone who's got anxiety issues and then they decide that they've got anxiety issues, which makes it worse. Is that possible? Yes, it is. Very much possible. So, how does someone distinguish between whether they really have?

20:59 I heard the other day, right? It's a good thing, this guy was talking about depression, and he said, before you go on antidepressants, check you're not spending too much time with assholes. Absolutely, so it's like you're not actually depressed, you're just hanging around really crappy people. So, um, but I think that's an important distinction. Actually, there's it's funny, but there's also some reality in that, like there is, yeah. Um, and so, as far as anxious, you know, anxiousness versus anxiety, how does someone do a little check with themselves? I think if you're constantly worried about what the future holds, and you're constantly got all these negative thoughts going on, you'll also have the other symptoms like the palpitations, the

21:46 you know, um, whatever feelings you get in your stomach, butterflies, you know, churning, whatever goes with that, um, sweats, insomnia, all the other symptoms that go with it, because it's not just a case of going, oh, frightened, you know. Um, there's there's everything that there's the breathing changes that you can sweat, you just there's so many symptoms, and you know, if you're checking off that, well, you know, yeah, I'm constantly thinking worried about the future, and I've got all these other ones, then yeah, you know, I started, I'm stopping going out, I'm not doing this. I'm, you know, when I go into a supermarket, my heart races, I can't breathe, you're having a panic attack, you know.

22:29 So, when I, when I, uh, in an early part of my personal development journey, and and it was during a relationship that wasn't going very well, and I was trying to look at myself of what I could do, and I ended up, I channeled my attention on something called CBT, cognitive behavioural therapy. And that's the first time I really got an understanding about how the mind works and thought coupling. So, having one simple thought, like, oh, I've got to pick the kids up, and then another one comes along, like, oh, what about the traffic? And then you start worrying about the car and the MOT, and then you start worrying about the skiing holiday where you said you were going to drive down. There's like these thought coupling, which is tricky enough in itself. But then, when you add catastrophic thinking on there, you couple the thoughts and end up with a disaster.

23:13 So, that was my sort of how I started to understand some of the thought patterns that were leading me to make poor decisions. It wasn't that I was panicking and freaking out and locking myself in the cupboard about it, but I was ending up making poor decisions or sort of shutting down more inside myself than externally, but I was definitely shutting down. What, you know, someone who's experiencing anxiety as something new, and then you've got someone who's been putting up with or experiencing anxiety for a long time. What are some of the day-to-day steps they can take to really manage that? It's exactly what you said. It's, you know, the thoughts, like, we have no control over the thoughts that pop into our heads.

23:58 However, we have a choice whether to react to them or not. You know, how you react and how you feel to a thought, to a situation, is a choice. Yeah. You know, like if you imagine flicking through the television, you're just flicking through the channels. And if you see a program that you quite fancy, you'll stop and you'll watch it. Yeah. And it's like your thoughts. All those thoughts keep flicking through. And I'll say to clients, if it's not useful, if it's not kind and it's not true, then recognize it as one of those things. See it for what it is. It's a thought. And then move on to another thought.

24:39 Yeah. Consciously make the choice to think of something else. Yeah. Do you think it helps to relate a different, like a scenario where you make choices quite easily? Yeah. Let's say I was, I don't know, I don't know, in a pub and someone says to you, what do you want to drink? If you can make that decision quite easily, does that get someone should say, I do have the ability and the confidence to make decisions in that scenario, so just make one here. Yeah. And, you know, like people say, but what will I do? What I don't know what to do. And I'll say to them, well, you know, if you're not sure what to do, always, always acknowledge the thought.

25:17 If you don't acknowledge it, then what happens is if you imagine that you're a bit like a bottle, you know, okay, and something happens, you pop it in the bottle and you pop the lid on, you're not dealing with it. Eventually, that bottle's going to get too full and it'll explode. Yeah. So you always acknowledge the thoughts. And as I say, see them for what they are. And if it's not kind, not true, and not helpful, then decide to move on to something else. And if you can't think of anything else, move on to sing a song. Perfect. So without skimming past that, you just said there, it's not kind, it's not true, and it's not helpful. So when someone has that thought, the subconscious mind is popping that thought in there, or the other being inside us is popping that in there. And then you, the conscious person, gets to say, hello, thought. Yeah. Nice to see you.

26:01 Are you kind, truthful, or helpful? And if you can say, if you decide no to each of those, then what do you just wave it on? Say, say, bob on. Yep. Because stopping by. Because an anxious person will do what? Start to interrogate it and look at it. Yeah. Start questioning it. You know, well, why am I thinking like that? Oh, I mean, it happened to me just a few weeks ago, actually. I was just in the kitchen parting about it, and a thought popped into my head. And then I started thinking, okay, well, where did that come from? Why is that? And then I started thinking, what am I doing? I'm giving it too much. I'm giving it too much time, too much energy, you know, because I was starting to focus on that. And then that made the palpitations worse. And it's like, no, no, no, go away.

26:43 Yeah. And so someone who's listening and saying, yeah, but I can't do that. You must experience that in your coaching is because they're very right that they're stuck in that. Whereas this obvious way of dealing with it, but they're like, well, I couldn't possibly do that. That's like, have you got a different solution? But are they just going to literally, well, test it, try like practice, pick an easy one and test it, gain confidence with the process and then be able to use it on a more regular basis and for some of the big scary hairy ones. The more you do that, the more that you acknowledge it, thank it for popular and whatever, you know, give gratitude to thank you for being there.

27:23 That's fine, but you know, you're not helpful. I don't need to deal with you. The more you practice doing that, the easier it becomes. However, if there's that moment where you're like, I don't know what else to think of, a simple thing to do would be to stick your tongue at the back of your teeth, up the back of your teeth. Right. And when you do that, you can't think of anything negative. Can't think of anything. Okay, so this is like a little, this is like an interruption, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Like a pattern interrupt. So you're focusing on your tongue being at the back, just up behind your teeth. Yeah, because it's not a feeling you normally experience. Right. And then it's, it's kind of like, oh, what am I doing? Yeah. You know, but it's also because you're having to focus on what you're doing.

28:08 Yeah. And the great thing about that is it's a little secret. It's not like you're having to suddenly do a can can. You're just quietly in the supermarket, tapping the top of your mouth with your tongue as you interrupt. Someone said to me the other day they've been told they should hug themselves with that. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Hugging, as you know, is good. I get clients that, now, hugging is a good one. There's also what's called a bilateral stimulation, which is where you're activating the left brain and right brain, so logical side, creative side. I use, I've got a little bean bag here, which for those who obviously are only listening, I have a little bean bag.

28:53 You can use anything. You can use your glasses, something that passes between your hands quite easily. Like a squidgy or a small ball or anything like that. Yeah, like a little juggling ball or even just a little softball. And you want to pass it from side to side. I dropped it. But you want to pass it from side to side. And what you're doing is when you're thinking about whatever it is that makes you feel anxious and you're watching that go from side to side. Yeah, again, because it's doing that whole crossover. Yeah. That causes a confusion. Yeah. In the brain. So it's kind of like, what was I thinking about? Oh, I don't know. Oh, God, it's gone. But not only that, because you're focusing on something else, it takes it away from the thought.

29:35 Yeah. So, you know, for me, one of the things we were chatting about before we press record was my attitude towards anxiety quite often can be, well, just stop it. You know, like, come on. I really respect and know that it's real. But I'm as someone who's done work and personal development and other coaching and stuff, I'm like, well, look, we can interrupt this, surely. And there's that Bob Newhart video on YouTube, Stop It. If anyone's not seen that, just search YouTube for Stop It. And it is, it's hilarious. I think it was a Saturday Night Live sketch or something from the 70s, or he had a show in the 70s. I think he had a show, yeah. So this lady comes in with all her, I've got, I can't stop thinking about this, and I'm worrying about that.

30:18 And you know, it gets hilarious. He said, okay, well, this is going to take five minutes and I'm going to charge you 10 bucks. And he just keeps telling her to stop it. And it's hilarious. It really is hilarious, but it's so true as well. It's so true. Absolutely true. But you only know what you know. And if you don't know how to stop it, you know, you don't know where the switch is to flick the switch to make it stop, then you don't know. And that's what you've just done: show us some great ways to pattern interrupt there. So it was hella thought: are you kind, true, or helpful? Helpful, yeah. So you can then internally answer that question. Then you've got the tapping your tongue on the back of your mouth.

30:58 Yeah, just hold it up there. Or possibly hugging yourself. Yeah, hugging the bilateral simulation. Trying something from side to side, yeah. But not with the bilateral simulation, it doesn't have to be throwing something. You don't even have to have anything in your hand. You're just watching your hand go backwards and forwards. But you can also put your hands together. It's just terrible for audio. No, it's fine. Well, the video's on YouTube anyway. So you can search up Team Super Dad on YouTube. And this video is here with Marina Collins, the interviewer. You can put your hands together and put them on your collarbone, and it's like a butterfly. So it's called butterfly hug. And you tap one side slowly at a time. And again, that gives you that bilateral stimulation. Yeah. You know, and they use that

31:44 for in tsunamis with kids caught up in tsunamis and there was so much going on in their little minds that they did this what they call the butterfly hug. Again, Google that. Or it'll go to my YouTube channel and you can see how we do it. And it helps when you're focusing on that or what that emotion is, what that problem is, it helps to bring it out. Yeah. So thinking about what I was saying, my attitude towards anxiety, and I've learned so much about it today. What if a dad, you know, is, you know, one of their children could be, you know, what's the word, expressing or showing signs of anxiety.

32:27 Maybe you've met someone new and they're great, but they seem to have anxiety stuff going on. What can what can a dad, what kind of guy do if people around them are showing signs of anxiety? What's the best way to help people around you? Obviously, you can't control other people. Do you mean like if their kids are showing it? Is that what you're meaning? Obviously, you could share everything that we've just talked about. That's fine. So that's great to be able to share those things. But as a support, as someone who, let's say, someone's almost like having the most extreme, someone's having a panic attack and you're there with them. Yeah. Just being there for them and getting them to breathe. Breathe slowly.

33:10 Now, again, I'm going to show another thing for breathing. Because when you go into a state of panic, you take a shock and take a breath, you know, like when you've got a fright and you tend to then hold it for a while and then your breath changes when you're in a state of anxiety or a state of panic. So by regulating your breathing, you can slow it back down, get it back to normal. Now, just asking people to focus on their breathing can sometimes be a bit, you know, my mind's not there. I can't really do that. I can't focus. I'm trying, I'm trying, and it's not working. So what I do is I get them to chase around their hand.

33:49 So they would start at the thumb and they would breathe in and then out and then keep going around their fingers in, out, in, out. It'll do it slowly, obviously. Yeah. And as they've done that, one, it's helped them to regulate their breathing, but it's also giving them something else to focus on. So just with one hand, you hold your hand out like a spider and literally run your finger of your other hand around the outline of your fingers and thumbs in, out, in, out. Yeah. Because the common thing between all of these things is focus. When you're giving focus to something that makes you anxious, have you? you?

34:31 There's a part of your brain called the reticular activating system. Okay. I call it the thinker and the prover. I seem to be the only one that's ever heard. That's what the thinker thinks, the prover proves. So when you're thinking of something or giving focus to something, yeah, your prover has to prove it. So when you're focusing on things that make you feel anxious, what you're going to get more anxious because your prover has to prove it. So when you, you know, if anybody's ever done that thing of they're buying a new car, so they've gone to the garage, they've picked their car and they've got to go back a week or so later to pick it up. And then all of a sudden, everywhere they go, oh, look, there's that car. Oh, like me, I have a white key. Yeah.

35:12 There's a white key. There's one there. One that, you know, everybody has a white key. And it's not that everybody has suddenly went, oh, Marina's got a new car. You know, it's just that my focus had changed. Yeah. Yeah. So my prover had to prove it. Totally. And for anyone doubting that this thing exists, it does exist. And the reason it exists is that if it wasn't there, we'd all go mad because we would notice millions of things constantly. And so the reticular activating system helps us focus on things that matter to us at that time. It's actually a survival instinct, really. And now, in this modern age that we live in, when we're aware of it and have got control of it, we can actually start to draw things towards us by, I'm focused on kick-starting my life.

35:54 I'm focused on finding a new relationship. I'm focused on transforming my experience of work or even finding a new work. It's we've we literally get what we think about or we get what we focus on. When it's out of control, though, just like you're saying, I focus on, am I anxious? Yes, I am anxious. Is there any reason to be anxious? Yes, all these anxious things. Yeah, exactly. Oh, every time I think about this, this happens. We don't think about it. Which is the stuff. I know it sounds like it's easy. And as I say, you'll know what you know. And when I point a lot of this out to clients, they're kind of like, oh, yeah, I get it now. Yeah. Yeah. And that's straight away. We go back into what you said. You start tapping your tongue and you think, hello, thought.

36:39 Is that helpful? Is that true? Is that happy? Okay, great. None of it was. Brilliant. Then I can let that thought go by. I said to my boy today at school, he keeps getting in trouble at school for overreacting about situations. And I said, look, imagine those things are waves on the beach. The wave's going to come. There's going to be another wave straight after it. Now, you can choose to just stand there and let the wave go past. You could choose to jump over it, like really take control of the situation. Or you could let the tiny wave knock you over and then flail around in the shallow waters like the world is ending, only then to stand up two minutes later and realize that it wasn't that bad and there's another wave coming.

37:20 And I said to him, Look, buddy, you know, pick your waves, just but don't allow each and every one to knock you over for no reason. And for me, when talking to my kids, trying to make some real simple analogies like that, so he can picture it in his mind. Yeah. All right, I'm on the beach. It's nice. I'm enjoying it. Let the waves come through me. Yeah. There's some great books for kids because like kids show anxiety in different ways. They end up with upset stomachs and things like that. You know, and a lot of these techniques that I've done can be used with kids as well. But there's some great books called there's NLP for teens, NLP for kids. I can't remember who does them. I was looking to see if I had one handy. But

38:02 NLP being neuro-linguistic programming. And it's about how you do your thinking. And the books are brilliant. It's little exercises for them to get them to see how they do their thinking so that they can change that. Yeah, and that's so powerful. And we haven't really spoken about that, but in a divorced or separated situation, kids very young could express anxiety, teens, especially girl teens. You know, boys could go off and get quite reckless. Girls, I know about self-harming and stuff like that. My youngest, when I was going through, when I was going through stuff with my previous marriage and

38:48 the divorce and everything, my two were really really upset. My ex had an accident. He broke his back in an accident. So obviously I was keeping things from them about how he was because he was in a coma and things like that. And then when he came out, he was a totally different person. And he became really angry. And so they were witnessing him throwing things at me, punching me, things like that. So that messed them up. So as they got older, one of them dealt with it her way, and the other one dealt with it as she got older. It was like, Well, I need a drink, you know. And before she was 14, she was just drinking, yeah, you know.

39:31 Um, well, she doesn't now, well, she drinks occasionally, but not you know, she's a mum, they're a single mum herself now, you know. Um, but it, yeah, it just affects kids. So, a parent could, so a dad, like obviously, we're talking to dads, but this, I hope this gets does get shared with mums and stuff. Um, they could sit their kid down and say, if you said to them, are you having anxious thoughts? They're not really going to answer that, are they? But you may not know you worry about stuff, or do you get a bit panicky? Is that the kind of question you could ask them? Yeah, well, because they may not know, they may not know what anxiety is, they may not know what the feelings are. They might just like, you know, it took my granddaughter gets anxious, um, and at first she didn't know what it was either.

40:16 You know, and they get as they'll often show upset stomach. So, if they're constantly taking time off school because they're so tummy, then ask them what they're thinking, you know, what's happening in their little world that's causing talk. It's so important to talk to them and understand what they're going through. Um, and it's reframing it, you know, so you don't want to say, Well, when you stop thinking like that, you don't want to do that to kids, you want to like you've done reframing it with the whole waves and everything. You want to reframe it into something more positive for them, you know, so and getting them to focus on something good so that they're not then focusing on those feelings.

40:59 And is that so that's kind of normalizing it for them? Yeah, then do what do we go into some of the tips that we've talked about and have you know, because even at the youngest age, someone can know how to tap their tongue on their mouth. That's absolutely fine. Yeah, and I guess there's the final part of that would be the talking up front, the practical steps when it's happening, and then encouraging them what to share. If, like, yeah, at the end of the day, you don't say, Did you have any anxiety today? You want to say, I don't say to my kids, what was the best bit of your day? Absolutely, and then they get and then that opens up the space then to say, Oh, was there any bad bits? Yeah, yeah, and then they get, and actually, they're quite open about it. Then, read something, I think it was this morning, someone had spoke to their kid and you know, had said, How was school?

41:44 And oh, well, it was rubbish, and they counted how many bad bits of the day there was, and there was three. And they went, Well, what good happened? And nothing. So, then they started, well, let's talk about what happened in your day. And then they outweighed the found that there was like, say, six, yeah, for example, good things that happened that day, you know, and then they're saying, Well, six is a better, a bigger number. You won the game, six, three, yeah, absolutely, you know, that focus on the six good things, and that's habits for life. Basically, yeah, we're talking about um positive thinking, getting into the realms of law of attraction and vibrations and psycho-cybernetics and stuff.

42:25 But just allowing kids, you know, just having read Ask and It Shall Be Given, I read it. I've actually listened to it twice this week. I was thinking about my kids' money boxes. I know I'm going off a bit on an off-tangent here, but I said to them, Don't ever when we when we go to the shops and whatever, and when we put money into your bank account, I never want you to empty your piggy bank. I always want you to feel I've got money, yeah. Because I'm just looking at my own financial situation and some of the stuff, some of my like pre-programmed thoughts there, yeah. Um, and just like, wow, okay, so there's so they'll never think I've got no money, they'll always think I'm saving more or I'm growing my money. It's such a powerful, powerful life, you know, because if you're focusing on I've got no money, what are you going to have?

43:09 You know, and as you say, it's how manifestation works as well. I listen to manifestation things in the morning, um, and often my three-year-old grandson is there, and I can hear him repeating it, yeah, you know, like I am an abundant being, and you know, I listen to him, and I'm thinking that's good because he's going to normalize that and have that be something that he wants to do because his grandma does. Um, so again, so I know a couple of different mums who've seemingly got there, got some anxiety stuff with their with their daughters, mainly daughters, actually. Um these are all these are all great tips that they can actually do with them as practical as practical activities. Yeah, one thing I want to say as well is as I said earlier, we're only ever born with two fears, sun loud noises and fear of falling.

43:53 Yeah, um, anxiety is either something that you learn as a child because you had an anxious parent, and so it's being mindful that if you're anxious, that you're passing that on, or it's something that can be, as I term, caught, you know, so something happens and creates that anxiety, um, you know, those feelings and become more anxious. So, if you've got a kid that's quite anxious. anxious, it's important actually to have a look at yourself. Yourself. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I totally get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Awesome. You mentioned before, you know, I mean, Risor, before we sort of start tipping into your family and those experiences,

44:39 what sort of resources do you have, or where should someone go to have a look at managing their anxiety or moving past their anxiety? I mean, I have a Transformations YouTube channel which has lots of videos on it. Obviously, I've done a lot of training. I'm constantly doing training just to learn more tips so that I can take that forward and help with clients. But I have a YouTube channel that's got lots of videos on it with different tips as well. Post on, oh, sorry, it's NLP Transformations, I think it is on YouTube. And my Facebook page is Transformations as well.

45:20 And I post videos and tips on there as well. Well, I'll put all that in the show notes so people can get into it easily. I'm a great believer in giving, you know. Why should people, why should I keep it to myself and not share it? Yeah, totally. Totally. So listen, let's get onto the family stuff. So you've got two, you've got one daughter or two daughters? I have two daughters. One is 30. Oh, God, wait till I search my head. 36 this year. And the other one's 33, I think it is. Yeah, yeah. And how old were they when you split up? So the youngest

46:01 would have been goodness, I'm trying to think, I've been with roughly. I mean, like four or five or 12, 13? Five and six, I think, or five and seven, sorry, because there's two years between them. Yeah. And, you know, in so many of the parent forums and stuff, I see both mums and dads, single mums and single dads, kind of bleating on about how men are crap or women are crap or, you know, like, and it doesn't actually help move things on. What was that like for you in those early stages? Did you, you know, were you, you know, were you upset? Were you broke? Did it take a long time to really start to pull yourself back together?

46:41 Well, because I had decided to leave an abusive marriage for my safety and kids. Yeah, it's still upsetting. And when the divorce came through, it was still upsetting, you know, because you think marriage is forever, don't you? However, you know, doing the right thing for my kids is important. And, you know, he got to see the kids. He'd see them every weekend. And then he, one of the reasons that we split up was because he was constantly seeing other people. And then he'd see someone else and be like, well, I don't have time for the kids. I'm doing this. I'm doing that.

47:19 And he started pushing them aside. And they would get upset. You know, the little one, because she was little, you know, she'd wet the bed and things like that every time she was there, but she was fine when she was here. Signs of anxiety that I know but didn't know then. You know, so, and then they made the decision that he'd gone away on holiday, said he was in hospital, but he'd actually gone away on holiday with his latest girlfriend and her kids. And they made the decision that they didn't want to see him. And I thought, do you know what? That's their choice. I'll have to let them. How old were they roughly then? By then, they were probably

48:02 9 and 11, maybe. Maybe even younger than that, actually. Maybe younger, actually, 8 and 10, maybe. Because it was too upsetting for them. And he wasn't bothering about them. In fact, at one stage, he was with our girl who had kidnapped my youngest, which is why she ended up the worst. The pair of them had kidnapped her and taken her into the house and refused to let me have her back. I was at my friends next door refused to let me have her back. I had to get police involved. So I can understand why she would suddenly change and go, do you know, I don't want to be there.

48:43 So I had to do what was right for them. And because it was their choice, and I spoke to the lawyer and he's like, yeah, okay, given the circumstances. So they stopped. They never saw him. Yeah, I read and hear so much of parents not letting the other parent see their kids. And I think that, you know, firmly in my heart. as a team super dad value, you know, equal shared co-parenting is where everything should come from.

49:22 And then after that comes, are they okay? Is there any issues here? As both parents give them the time and focus they deserve. But the other seems obviously the problem we have in the UK still is the other way around right now is that it's one parent can state how it's going to be and the other parent then has to sort of prove that it shouldn't be that way. But, you know, I hope that's a message to anyone listening what you've just shared about the impact on our children when either parent doesn't really give them the love and attention that any child deserves really. Yeah. Yeah. I mean how did you go about going sorry? I was going to say she as she got older she became over protective of me

50:03 and you know she we would have friends round she'd sneak off and have a drink but she became so overprotective of me that I couldn't do anything. I couldn't go anywhere and that was just all down to her worrying about being taken away again. And that is the long-term impact. Yes. And everybody, everybody in a divorced or broken relationship situation has to realize that even if they have to pretend to get along. I mean different if someone's been raped or thrown down the stairs or things like that but to whatever degree work out a way that the children can see you being cordial and are you well yes I am great enjoy the sunshine I'll see you next time exactly yeah yeah I am you know like like Barry

50:51 is divorced from his first wife as well and when I first got together with him he had a two-year-old and you know he got he didn't get to see him for a while she would stop him seeing him and then he did get to see him and then things happened and she stopped him seeing him and you know so that's why I'm saying I've seen it from both sides and I've seen the hurt it cost him what freaked me out though was Barry had a mum has a mum uh had a dad and a stepdad and when I first got together with Barry and it was like you need to come and meet my parents and I thought okay so we'll go there and then we'll go there and meet the parents you know three of them

51:33 all sat together and like right so tell us about you and I'm like oh my god that scared me so what year was this oh my god the girls must have been about 9 and 11 at that time so we're talking like 20 years ago yeah so straight away my kind of stereotypical like we got a room full of Scottish people right this is like tough Scottish kind of everything's just straight down the line and actually you've got a blended family yeah interested in in in meeting the woman particularly almost like protective over him because he'd had the poor experience with with his previous wife

52:11 exactly and then to make sure that you know because like he was taking on a woman with two kids you know i mean i i came as a package yeah yeah you know so um it was over 20 years because barry and i had been together 20 odd years so um you know sitting down that was really strange because in my mind when you split up with something that was it you had nothing more to do with them and you know you never saw them again but and they would often come the three of them would come together he'd visit they would come for christmas dinner the three of them you know did so much together it was

52:48 just it was nice and strange that's totally it nice strange and normal absolutely yeah in in a in a world of what is bad and wrong also what is more normal than we're human beings can we find a reason to get along and actually that reason was a shared reason and it was barry's well-being and happiness absolutely yeah yeah you know so as i say i've seen it from the she from his side where barry didn't get a seal um you know she used them as a weapon kind of thing you know which some parents do from my side where it's like it was my choice because my kids health and

53:28 safety was more important yeah and and being confronted by you know mum dad stepdad you know it's just i've had it all and my daughter my youngest daughter is a single parent and she co-parents you know she wants that for her child okay there's a lot of times they don't get on and they'll argue but she's like no no you you want to co-parent with me then you will see him you know however many days a week it takes and you'll do this and you'll do that you know she that's what she wants because she knows that it's important for her kid to have a dad in his life the long-term impact yes

54:05 on a spectrum you know that's what i think all parents need to realize on a go on a co-parenting spectrum: is how do I want my kid, what do I want my kids' experience of this poor, unfortunate situation to be suffering and stuck with it, and it's unfair and awful through to actually quite an inspiration of what's possible when you can push beyond yourself. And I think that's where the legacy aspect comes in for our children to grow up confident in the opportunity to fall in love and create their own family and secure in the knowledge that if it doesn't work out, they'll do something, they'll do it, they'll do that, they'll be okay, they'll do the right thing.

54:45 Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think that obviously she's learned from everything, you know, from what I've been through, from what Barry's been through, and to see that it's okay to work things out and everybody be happy and involved, you know, so which is why she's taken that route. And you know, I think it's a perfect way to sort of get towards the end here. What advice can you give? I mean, I don't mean like advice, but more like from your own experience. You had to, there was a breakthrough moment for you when you went from basically an abused woman, abused wife, through to dating

55:23 the experience of dating as a single parent, the choice and sort of feeling, I think I'm falling in love here. Like, what could you say about that whole period of time that would be a motivation or a reassurance to single parents? I went through so much in that time because going through from divorce, I so much hated myself. I didn't want to be here, but then I had kids, I needed to be here. And, you know, dating, and it was like, well, just dating for because you don't want to be on your own. And then I actually worked with Barry. Barry was a work colleague and we became friends. And then it grew from there. And it's

56:07 knowing that, do you know what? Maybe the first time wasn't right, the second time wasn't right, but that there is someone out there. There is someone out there that can be kind to you, that can give you everything that you want, that show you the love that you need. You know, like I said earlier, I didn't have trust in men. And it took me a long time to be with Barry before I actually decided that, do you know what? I actually trust this guy. After maybe 10 years or something, I thought, I actually do trust this guy. We've been together for so long. And it's just knowing, you know, there is somebody out there, you know, just it'll happen when it happens. And just be yourself and the right person will be there for you.

56:49 Is there something that you had to give up for that to become possible? Yeah, I think I had to just maybe not give up, but I had to just let go. Yeah, you know, I had to let go of an idea of the fact that I needed someone and decide, which is why Barry and I were just friends. It's like he was, you know, I would go to him with men problems. Do you know what I mean? You know, and because I was too focused on feeling that I needed something. And then when I decided, you know what, I don't, I've got my kids.

57:31 And it happened. But there was an openness in your heart for it to happen. Yes. So letting the intention and focus go, but still there was an openness in your heart to actually create a friendship with a man, which then step by step allowed love to come in. Yeah. And obviously, as I said, you know, it took a few years or two before I learned to trust him. But this whole journey with the firewalking and the hypnotherapy and everything has been while I've been with him. Yeah. You know, he's helped me through that. He's helped guide me through that and helped me deal with issues that I've had to deal with

58:11 and be there to support me through them. You know, and it's nice to know that there are kind of people out there that can do that for you. Yeah. And believe in it. Which actually comes back to the anxiety subject. If you believe there's no one out there, guess what? Crappy people are going to keep showing up. Absolutely. How many times do you have it? Or why do you always keep picking the wrong people? Yeah. As your focus. Yeah, your clearing is for those kind of people to walk into your life. Yeah, totally. Wow, Marina, this has been an absolutely wonderful conversation. And I really appreciate, and I hope anyone listening does, your willingness to share aspects of your story and your family.

58:53 And that's very generous of you. And obviously, I know that's who you are to the world. And seeing how you've supported the firework, the firewalking community. now get a real sense of that's who you are to Barry and to your family and to everyone you serve as well. So, thank you for that. It's that whole behind every good man. Well, no, do you know what? That's what really annoys me. That's what really annoys me in this whole equality conversation right now is that most people aren't talking about equality, they're talking about winning still. Yeah, and when you can realize that in it, and I think in this PC world we live in today, you have to accept that a couple could be any gender, but

59:34 there is a more masculine role and there is a more feminine role. And when those two things can work together and actually can appreciate the differences, that's there's a reason that they're different is because it's like a key and a lock. We're supposed to go together and produce a passion. So many times Barry and I have been to, or I've been to see like I go to psychics and things like that, like that kind of thing. And people have said that we are like yin and yang. You know, we just compliment each other so well. We were the sad couple who finishes each other's sentences, you know, but like as much as I push him towards his dream, he pushes me towards mine. Yeah. Oh gosh, that's sparking off another whole load of conversation. You know what we should do? You know, it'd be really cool.

1:00:16 We should get we'll get you and Barry on together and actually have a conversation about some of that, like how you're pushing your life forward, some of the decisions you're taking to grow, both your business and the stuff you do in the community. That'll be really interesting as well. Because Team Super Dad is also very much, you know, about the kickstart. It's about rebuilding and having more fun, more time, more money. And obviously about the memories we create with our kids. And it's that whole, you've got to believe in yourself to be able to do things. And as you said about earlier, about personal development, you know, unlike the fire instructor training is more than personal development.

1:00:56 You know, it's, there are no words to describe what I got from that. You know, what I thought I was over stuff, you know, and then it's like, there are just no words to describe what you could get from that. You know, you've got to push yourself to be the best version of you. You have to push yourself. And to be the best version of a dad for your kids, you have to push yourself. You've got to, you know, look after number one and get your head straight. Yeah. Well, you'll be happy to hear I've got plans in the pipeline to do a weekend event next year with firewalking and all the various empowerment exercises

1:01:42 and some talks around it in the key areas of Team Super Dad. So health, wealth, happiness, faith, fun and personal power. So awesome. You mentioned earlier where people can connect with you. Basically, transformations on Facebook. I've also been based on Facebook, nlptransformations.org.uk and I'm sure on YouTube it's NLP Transformations as well. Okay, great. And if anyone's stuck, they can come over to the Team Super Dad community and just ask me, Johnny Jensen, and I'll send you in there. I'll send them in your direction. You know, like, you know, if anyone's got any questions or anything, you know, please feel free to message me.

1:02:22 I also do via Skype, FaceTime, Zoom, whatever needed as well. Epic. So they can come to Fife if they want to, but they can also see you from around the world. Brilliant. Give my best to Barry. I can't wait to see you soon, Marina. It's been a real pleasure having you on. Pleasure. Thank you. You take care. Love, love, love that. Having a mum on it, just occurred to me. I was in the shower the other week and it just occurred to me. I got like a really strong message that said, you know, this isn't all about dads. This isn't all about men. And, you know, I just was thinking about that as I went through that week, that day.

1:03:06 And, you know, creating a new life, kick-starting our life, really feeling complete and happy inside and both, you know, outside as well in who we are to our friends and our colleagues and especially our children. It isn't about staying on our own all the time. You know, having falling back in love, getting it right the next time around seems to me to be possibly the best outcome we could all work towards. And if I think about myself, that's certainly the best outcome. It's what I'm working towards. I have no desire to carry on being a single dad. This is not like a badge of honor in any way.

1:03:45 It really is just an experience and a stepping stone in the journey to future happiness and success. So I hope you've enjoyed today's show. If you haven't subscribed, then how the hell are you going to know when the next one comes out? So please go away and subscribe. subscribe on whatever channel you're listening to. YouTube, it's the bell, iTunes. It's just subscribe. Uh, Breaker is my favorite on the iPhone, that's B-R-E-A-K-E-R. And of course, we're on Spotify and Stitcher and all the normal places where you hear podcasts. Share it, love it. I can't wait to see you on the next episode. Come over. Oh, don't forget, come and join us on the Team Super Dad community on Facebook. My name's Jonnie Jensen, Team Super Dad out. Bye.

1:04:31 This has been Team Super Dad. Find us at Team Super Dad.com. Join the rebuild program and create the best life ever for you and your children. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad.