Episode 11 · Wednesday, 5 November 2025

Ep 11: How to show up as the person your ideal client is searching for

Shifting from hero to guide using the wisdom of Yoda and Donald Miller allows entrepreneurs to overcome visibility fears and attract their ideal clients.

By The Business of Stories | 23m listen | 6 chapters
Ep 11: How to show up as the person your ideal client is searching for cover
The Business of Stories · No. 11

About this episode

Luke Skywalker begins his journey on Tatooine seeking a warrior to defeat the Empire, but Yoda reveals that the true battle lies within internal doubt. This transformation from a restless boy to a Jedi leader provides the blueprint for business owners to shift their positioning from hero to guide. By adopting the wisdom of the Jedi Master, entrepreneurs empower their clients to find their own strength rather than simply selling a service.

Donald Miller and his book Building a StoryBrand establish the guide archetype through figures like Rafiki in The Lion King, Mary Poppins, and Mr. Miyagi. These characters provide the discipline and framework necessary for a hero to succeed, much like the Indiana Jones figure in a jungle navigation metaphor who carries the map for a nervous traveler. Dee from Dee Goswani Designs highlights the common struggle of publishing content, prompting a visualization exercise where dream clients appear as fairy lights on a map waiting for a signal. Consistent visibility through emails and articles serves as a beacon for those actively searching for specific expertise and unique perspectives.

The Be The Guide Masterclass offers a sixty-minute deep dive into overcoming sales anxiety by reframing visibility as a service. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own mastermind mentors and teachers who provided the path forward during professional plateaus. This episode concludes with a call to share these insights with fellow business owners on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.


CHAPTER 01 / 6 Discussion

Star Wars Hero Journey, Luke Skywalker and Yoda

The narrative of Luke Skywalker serves as a framework for understanding the hero's journey, from his beginnings on Tatooine to his training with Yoda. While Luke initially seeks a powerful warrior to defeat the Empire, Yoda teaches him that the true battle is against internal doubt and fear. This transformation from a restless boy to a Jedi leader illustrates that a guide's role is to empower the hero to find their own strength.

luke skywalker· tatooine· obi-wan kenobi· darth vader· yoda

00:53 You're listening to The Business of Stories with Susan Payton, showing you how to share stories that do the selling in your business so you don't have too. Luke Skywalker was a young guy stuck on a desert planet called Tatooine staring out at a double sunset dreaming of a life that is about more than fixing droids and helping with harvests He wants adventure, purpose. To do something that matters but when he does finally get the call to adventure it's nothing like he imagined In just one day he loses everything his family, his home and the life he knew and is thrown into this huge dangerous world that he doesn't understand

01:43 He wants to be brave, he wants to help but is scared. He doesn't believe that he's ready or good enough to take on something as big as the Empire. He begins learning the ways of The Force with Obi-Wan Kenobi but when Obi Wan sacrifices himself in his duel with Darth Vader Luke sets out to find Yoda The Great Jedi Master he's heard about, who he imagines is a powerful warrior who can show him how to take on the dark side. But instead out of the swamp steps this tiny odd green creature who speaks in riddles and moves slowly. Training with Yoda isn't what Luke expected at all! No battles no lightsaber duels just lessons in patience focus and trust

02:38 But, with Yoda as his guide things start to shift for Luke and he sees that his biggest battle isn't with the dark side out there but with the doubt inside him. Bit by bit Yoda helps him see what's always been there strength courage belief He teaches him to let go of fear To stop fighting against himself And slowly Luke changes. He becomes calmer, wiser, stronger. He begins to see who he really is and who has become to face the darkness ahead By the time he stands before Darth Vader, he's no longer that restless boy chasing adventure. He's a leader! A Jedi

03:37 Yoda didn't defeat the darkness for him. He helped Luke realise he had the power to do it himself, He helped him see himself, he helped him become the kind of person who could bring light into the dark. Understanding where and when and how you fit into your customer story is critical If you just go crashing into their story without first understanding what your role is, how they need you to show up, what they need you to do for them. You'll find yourself playing a very short part because they'll write you out of their story very quickly It's their story Their journey Their life

CHAPTER 02 / 6 Discussion

Positioning as the Guide, Jungle Navigation Metaphor

Effective business positioning requires understanding one's role as the guide rather than the hero in a customer's story. Using a jungle metaphor, the guide is likened to an Indiana Jones figure who possesses the map and compass to lead a nervous traveler to their goal. When a business owner shows up as a supportive guide, clients feel relief and gratitude rather than feeling like they are being sold to.

customer story· ideal client· guide role· marketing strategy· indiana jones

04:28 And you need to know what part you're playing so that you can position yourself as the person your idol client needs in their story right now. I have a whole masterclass on this and whenever I deliver it, I always get messages from people saying it's completely changed the way they think about showing up in their business It's helped so many people go from feeling uncomfortable about putting stories out or worrying about showing up too much, or feeling icky about trying to make sales

05:04 To feeling excited to be more visible, now that they truly understand what their role is and how to position themselves in a way that the right people see them as someone they need in their story. To help them get where they want to go And I want you to feel excited too So I'm going to share a really important concept with you in this episode that will change the way you think about showing up in your business too. You up for that? Great! Then here's what I want you to do... I want you to imagine you're in a jungle, well you haven't actually entered it yet, you're just about to step into it. You're right on the edge looking in nervously

05:55 The reason you're about to go into this jungle is because the thing you really want, the life, the business, the house, the relationship, the body whatever it is. It's on the other side of this jungle so you know it's there but to get to it you need to go through the jungle there's a journey to go on but as long as you get through it you can have it Standing here, trying to set off on this adventure? It's scary. You haven't been through this jungle before! You're probably feeling anxious, nervous even overwhelmed at the prospect of having to navigate it. You'll have so many questions... What if I get lost? What if I go off track? Will I even know if I'm on track?! Will I know if I'm heading in the right direction?

06:45 Maybe I'll fall, maybe I'll get trapped. Maybe I'll get attacked, maybe I'll get eaten! This is completely unknown territory so you're going to be doubting yourself You're going to be thinking can i do this? Have I got what it takes am I gonna get out in one piece The problem is those doubts and anxieties will keep you stuck They will stop you from taking the first step Because you'll feel ill-equipped and unprepared, and anxious about the journey ahead. And that can stop you from moving forwards Some people stay stuck for years because the fear of the unknown keeps them there So imagine you're standing there looking at the jungle ahead really wanting that thing on the other side but feeling all the feelings of fear and anxiety

07:45 And then someone appears by your side. Someone who clearly knows this jungle very well They've got the outfit, I'm thinking Indiana Jones They've got the compass they've got the map and the ropes and clearly this is territory they know! And they say... Hey don't worry i get it I know you're nervous but you don't have to be I've been through this jungle many many times I know it like the back of my hand I know what's on the other side and i know the best way to get there. I can keep you on track, I can make sure you don't get lost or trapped or eaten! I've taken lots of people through it before and I can guide you through it too so that you can come out the other side safely exactly where you want to be. I'm not saying it'll be easy... It's a jungle we're going to have to navigate some tricky things along the way

08:42 But I'm here and i've got you. And we can do this! So, just when you were feeling stark and anxious this guide has appeared at your side and offered to be with you every step of the way so that you can get to that thing that you want in one piece How are you going to feel now? You'll probably be feeling hugely relieved...so grateful You'll feel reassured, supported in safe hands. Seen by someone who gets you and understands what you want Someone who's given you hope Hope that something that felt impossible and overwhelming and that you were doubting you could do suddenly feels possible And something that you start believing you can do

09:37 You might even be starting to feel excited and motivated and keen to get going, and so thankful that the person you needed showed up just when you needed them. So here's another question for you... Would you feel sold too? No! In all your excitement and gratitude and enthusiasm to get going, you're more likely to be hugging them and thanking them That's how you want your idle clients to feel when they come across you. Relieved, excited, grateful that you turned up at the right time in their journey and can help them get where they want to go. That they're no longer alone. They don't have to stay stuck. With you by their side as a guide, they can do this!

CHAPTER 03 / 6 Discussion

Famous Guides in Fiction, StoryBrand Framework

Donald Miller's book, Building a Story Brand, emphasizes the importance of the guide role in marketing and content creation. Classic stories provide archetypes for this relationship, such as Rafiki guiding Simba in The Lion King, Mary Poppins assisting the Banks family, and Mr. Miyagi training the Karate Kid. These guides provide the framework and wisdom necessary for the hero to achieve discipline and self-belief.

donald miller· storybrand· rafiki· mary poppins· mr miyagi

10:35 So your role in your customer story, how you show up in their story is as that guide to show them what's possible for them and help them go on that journey to achieve it. Think about the guides you have in your own life as you've navigated things like your health or fitness or being a parent or starting a business We all have things we're trying to do, or be or have or achieve. And there's times when you need help! We need people to come and be a part of our story – to help us get through the next chapter, the next part of our journey because we don't know how to, or want to, do it on our own So we look for guides and coaches and teachers to help us and show us how to get where we want to go. And we choose guides that we trust

11:29 People that we feel get us and understand us, and that we trust have the map, the process, the step-by-step framework to get us there. Because that adds an extra level of reassurance that there is a proven path to follow – and that we're in safe hands! So your job when you think about marketing, creating content, showing up, sharing stories, talking to your idol client Donald Miller talks about this in his book Building a Story Brand.

12:18 And you want to be that guide. It's such an important role! You want to be the one that understands them and is there to support, guide & help them see what they're capable of. You wanna be the one who believes in them and sees what they can't yet see... ...and helps them become who THEY need to be. YOU wanna be the one that's not just showing them what's possible but helping them get there Just like Yoda did for Luke. And there are so many great examples of hero and guide relationships in the stories we all love. Simba in The Lion King had Rafiki, who helped him remember who he is and what he stands for. The Banks family were falling apart until Mary Poppins arrived to help them see what really matters – connection, joy, love, imagination!

13:17 The Karate Kid had Mr Miyagi. Mr Miyagi doesn't do the fighting for him, but with calm wisdom he helps Daniel – the kid who was being bullied – to learn discipline, focus and balance… And most importantly of all that he already had everything inside him he needed to be the person he wanted to be! So now As you think about showing up for your idol client as the guide that they need because they're stuck and how relieved and grateful they're going to feel. And how YOU can help them get unstuck, show them what's possible and be there to help & empower them every step of the way How does THAT make YOU feel? Excited right?! This is why you started your business

CHAPTER 04 / 6 Discussion

Overcoming Sales Anxiety, Be The Guide Masterclass

Shifting the internal narrative from "selling" to "guiding" helps business owners overcome the fear of being too visible or "salesy." Because clients are actively looking for help to get unstuck, consistent visibility is a service to those who need specific expertise and unique perspectives. A 60-minute masterclass titled "Be The Guide" is available on the host's website to further explore these concepts.

sales anxiety· visibility· unique insights· masterclass· business growth

14:13 There are people out there now looking for a guide and you would be the perfect guide for them. You could show them the way, and when you feel into that, you'll stop feeling icky or uncomfortable or sales-ey. You'll even stop worrying about showing up too much or talking about how you help people too much because you can't! Not for the people who are stuck – you can't show up too much for them They need you to be there. They need to find you because if you don't show up, they'll stay stuck or go and work with someone else but then they don't get your experience – your unique insights and perspective and everything that you bring to the table We talked in the last episode about changing the story in your head to a better one So what if you change the story in your head

15:13 Two, there are people out there today who really need me. They're looking for help they're looking at the journey in front of them and they're feeling overwhelmed and I know i can help them! I can be that guide for them so Be The Guide show people that you get them That you see them That you understand them Show them a path forward let them know You Know The Steps to get them where they want to go That's when people get excited about working with you. And by the way, if you want to watch the full 60-minute masterclass it is on my website under freebies called Be The Guide. I've got something else to help you step into your role as The Guide but first let me bring in this week's question from Dee

CHAPTER 05 / 6 Discussion

Overcoming Publishing Fear, Fairy Light Visualization

Dee from Dee Goswani Designs asks for advice on overcoming the fear of publishing a bank of written articles. The response suggests a visualization exercise where potential dream clients are seen as sparkling fairy lights on a map, waiting for a guide. To be found, a business owner must turn their own "light" on by publishing content, sending emails, and staying visible so the right people can find the path forward.

dee goswani designs· publishing anxiety· visibility· fairy lights· content creation

16:05 Hi, I'm Dee from Dee Goswani Designs. I've lots of ideas for stories and often i'll write an article but something holds me back from publishing them so now I have a bank of articles where no one except me has read any tips on overcoming this? Yes! I hear this so much... So the first thing to say Dee is that you're not alone And if you haven't yet, I highly recommend going back and listening to episode 10 of this podcast because it's all about the story you're telling yourself. And I share some ways to look at that story and see if it's serving you, and making you feel good. And excited to put your stories out there! And if not...to change it But there is also something else I want to share with you that I love doing and will help with your question and ties really nicely into this week's theme of being the guide Because you can't be the guide for your idol clients If you're keeping your stories and knowledge and gifts to yourself

17:08 There are so many people out there that you would be a really good fit for, that you could really help really make a difference to. And whether those people are local to you or national or scattered all over the globe... ...there are hundreds thousands of people who would be absolutely dream clients for you! So only if it's safe to do so I want you to shut your eyes for a minute And see all of those people that you could help and that would be a perfect fit for you as little fairy lights. See them sparkling, maybe on a map? For me I see a globe and I see little fairy lights sprinkling all over it So see those little lights and each one represents the person that you could help in whatever way you help people

18:03 So each light is someone looking for help to change their story. They have the problem you know you can help them solve, they want the thing you know you can help them get and they would love working with you! They would feel connected to YOU, they would trust YOU and feel safe with YOU. They would love to have YOU as their guide on this journey they need to go on when they're looking for YOU Actively looking. This isn't about having to persuade people they have a problem or educate them on why they need your help, those lights are the people who are already looking for exactly what you do exactly the way you do it so see all those fairy lights and now I want you to see YOU on that map and YOU are a light too

18:56 But your light is brighter than the others. You know, like when you see one bright star in the sky? And your light is shining extra brightly so that people who are looking can find you! So see YOU on that map as a bright light and all the little fairy lights are your dream clients Your job is to keep your light shining brightly As long as you do that, those people will see you. They'll start making their way towards you. They'll find you! So how do you keep your light shining brightly? You show up. You share stories that connect. You talk about what you do and who you do it for. You show people who YOU are and what YOU stand for. You stay visible. So ask yourself... Are you shining your light brightly so people can find you

19:56 Or is it so dim that no one can see it because you're holding back? Or, Is It Off?! If you're not putting your stories and content and articles out there then your light is off. You are keeping those things to yourself And all those people looking for the help that you could give them They can't see you So put that post out Send that email out Publish that article Turn Your Light Up Be the guide and the light for others. Light up the path for them! If you keep your light shining brightly, the right people will find you and you might just change their life So as always before I go let me give you a quick action step that you can go away and do Here's your action step for today

CHAPTER 06 / 6 Discussion

Action Step, Podcast Review and Sharing

Listeners are encouraged to share a story about a guide or teacher who helped them reach a personal or professional goal, such as a mastermind mentor. The episode concludes with a request for listeners to share the show with other business owners and to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

mastermind· apple podcasts· spotify· storytelling· business support

20:53 Think about who is a guide in your life right now, or who's been a guide for you in the past. Share a story about how they helped and guided you. Maybe you're in a mastermind or program that's helping you learn more about yourself and become the person you want to be I talked in the last episode about joining a mastermind long before i was on paper ready to make that investment but, I knew I would learn so much and then it would help me get to where I wanted to go faster with better guidance and support and feedback. So what about you?

21:34 What story could you share about a guide or teacher or someone who helped you get to where you wanted to go and become the person you wanted to become? And, thank you for letting me be your guide today. I hope that I've shone a light brightly for you and shown you a way to position yourself as the person your idol client needs in their story right now If I have, I would love for you to share this episode with someone else who needs to hear it. I'd love for you to share it with another business owner who might be getting in their own way or feeling stuck. Someone you know is amazing and talented and can really help people but might not be shining their light as brightly as they could

22:24 Please share this episode with them so that they too can show up as the guide in their idol client story and shine their light brightly for others. Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time for more stories that do the selling for you – so you don't have to! Thank you so much for being here. I love that we get to do this together! Would you do me a huge favour and please rate, review and follow this podcast in Apple Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts? And i'll see you next time... More honest conversations meaningful connections and of course stories