64: We Are People 2

00:00 Diamonds are forever. They won't leave in the night. I have no fear that they might be. Diamonds are forever, forever, forever. Diamonds are forever, forever, forever, forever. Mo Facts with Adam Curry for July 10th, 2021. This is episode number 64.

00:41 Where have y'all been? We've been waiting for you. Yes, we're back with that part two you've been waiting for. I'm Adam Curry in the heart of Texas Hill Country and my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, the ever unimitable Mr. Mo Facts. How you doing, Adam? Well, how am I doing? I've been missing you, Moe. I've been missing you. That's how I'm doing. How are you doing? I'm doing better. Sorry for the long delay, but as you know, the show is ready when it's ready. Yes. I've been down the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes

01:18 and just dealing with life. So this is a well-placed pause in life so we can have this conversation that we are going to have today. I'm so looking forward to this. We've started it several times. It stopped. There's been technical issues. There's been life issues. I moved. That was another issue. But we're here. And I presume, Mo, this is going to be We Are People 2. This is the follow-up to our last episode. Yes, it definitely is. I think people didn't know where I was going with the WAP. And I got a lot of good feedback from We Are People. And I want to continue to show the relationship between Megan Thee Stallion and Maxine Waters.

02:05 We looked at the for pun intended, the working side of the relationship, the women that use their bodies. And I want to make something clear. The working side can be taken as a double entendre because women that actually use their physical bodies for labor, such as cleaning and same thing, they kind of fit on that same side of the common folk. So we're going to look at the educated side now and also reveal the third party in the room. I know people have been waiting on that. So I guess we can jump right in. Do we need to roll out the wheel at all just for old time?

02:48 Please, okay. Please, please. Ladies and gentlemen, we know where we're going, but still the absolute topic of Mo Facts with Adam Curry for episode number 64. There's only one person who knows. We will find out collectively. The topic is called WAP. Yes. Just part two. Setting you up. All right. All right. I'm very excited for this moment. I'm ready for the long haul. And I'm sure you even brought in some things that happened over the past six weeks or so that may have been interesting. Is that part of the rabbit hole you went down? That is. We'll see. We'll see. Okay.

03:27 Clip two. I was moved by your article. And I was so pleased that you wrote the article for a lot of reasons. Oftentimes, particularly happens with entertainers, they put you in a box and somehow they don't see you as a person who has a life that includes family, that includes interactions, decisions that you have to make that has nothing to do with your performance. And so they don't see you as thinking about the plight, for example, of black women or civil rights or any of these issues.

04:06 So that's why I was very pleased that you wrote it. And so when we saw it, we thought, wow, this is great. And I'm so pleased. Let's write her. Let's let her know that we think that she's doing a great thing and has done a great thing. And I want you to know that when you speak of yourself and you say maybe people think you're being too controversial, et cetera, et cetera, pay that no attention. There's some people who don't have courage and don't have confidence. They don't understand it when they see it in other people. So you should be proud of that. You should be proud of whom you are. And I know you are. Not only your talent, but your person.

04:50 What do you care about? And what is it you're doing that is not only good for you, but it's good for others. So thank you very much. And I'm pleased. to be with you. Yeah, I'm glad you played this. This kind of brings me back into where we left off. Yeah, so just to bring people up to speed, or if this you're listening for the first time, the last episode and this episode is centered around a quote-unquote conversation between Megan Thee Stallion, Maxine Waters, and a third party, which I'm willing to unmask now. Okay, Caitlin, Caitlin Greenwich. So, she's the yes, so she's the one that wrote this article and linked these two together.

05:34 And we're going to look into her background. But one thing we didn't discuss last time, or we didn't discuss in detail, was the name of the article, and that is Megan the Stallion and Representative Warter's Misogynoir, Say No, and the genius of WAP. So, that's the full title. Misogynoir? Yes. So, I brought you in with the WAP, but this is what we really got to talk about: that misogyny noir. So, that is a, I guess you would call it amalgamation of two words: misogyny and the French word for black. Right. Yes. So, this is black misogyny.

06:17 Wow. I really like that. I didn't get this term the first time. Misogynoir. I like that. That's just a category. Everybody took the WAP and ran with it, and the Audacity and ran with it. But this was the hidden message. It's like the payload. It's the payload that was in the bomb. And it really is the sigil. It went past our conscious mind and slips right into our unconscious mind. And what this is referring back to is what happened with her and Tori Lane's with the shooting incident. And so this is why Megan Thee Stallion is, it's several reasons why she's

06:58 a great, and I use these words respectfully, but asset for the globalists and the Democratic or liberal politicians because they can use her. She's educated, school. We're going to talk about that side. She has sex appeal. And now she also is a victim of a violent crime from a man. Right. So she gets shot in the foot. Was that it? Yes. Yes. A bullet ended up in her foot. That's correct. Allegedly. There's some cloudiness around that, but this is why they chose to bring her in to talk about misogyny.

07:39 And what I have to say about that is: if we're going to say, well, misogyny, just the word itself is from whiteness. And you talk about black and you're being, so that's a racist aspect to it. This is targeted towards black men. This is the massage from black men. Ah, so misogyny noir is black on both sides. Correct. And that's why. Holy crap. Yes. Now we see why we're here. So we can go ahead. What I also like to do is go back and talk about some of the things that Maxine Water said, and we can move on.

08:18 She said, no confidence. So for women that think they shouldn't use their bodies in a sexual manner to gain attention or clout, you don't have confidence. And this is a prime example of shaming what we talked about, sign language before from Kevin Samuels. And he's a really lightning rod right now. But the sign language is a abbreviation. I mean, not abbreviation, but a representative, not abbreviation. What's the word I'm looking at? What are you saying when you say sign language? Sign S-I-G-N.

08:57 Each letter stands for a word. An acronym? Acronym. Yeah. I don't know why this escaped me, but shaming is the S in an acronym, sign language. And what she's doing now is shaming other women. She's not shaming men. She's shaming women to say, if you don't agree with this, then you don't have any confidence. So confidence is a key point to Audacity. And that leads us right into clip number three, which is from the last show: Redefining Female Audacity. Audacity. It is defined as having the courage to make bold choices or excessive confidence.

09:38 It is both of those or either of those. I define female audacity as having the excessive confidence a woman needs to make bold choices between two seasons. seemingly conflicting but significant elements of her life. Women are sometimes faced with additional stress once they decide to bring a child into the world. How are we defined now? Are we a nurturing mother? Or are we a career woman?

10:16 This seemingly polarizing event in a woman's life can be tragic and very difficult to deal with. The dichotomy exists between working career woman and mother. It exists so powerfully that our culture has labeled it mommy wars. A war between women simply because they have made different choices. Will they have the audacity to forego their family to chase after their ambitions, or will they have the audacity to be a nurturing mother and dedicate themselves to their children?

10:57 Either way, it seems to have a negative connotation, but the fact remains that the war exists. And this is why this is important because this is somewhat a treaty in the mommy wars where you have the career woman being Maxine Waters sitting down with the working woman or the mothers. See, women are divided on this what their police, as her word, the polarizing event. Should you be a mother? Can I ask you a question about that? Yes. Go ahead. Because I know how this so-called mommy war plays out with white women mainly.

11:41 And I would say it's not at all a war, but that in general, and I'm just projecting what I've witnessed throughout my life. In general, the stay-at-home mom is proud of her choice and says, you know, it's not the choice I would make, but go ahead, you can have a career. I think actually the career white woman is a little more at war with the stay-at-home woman than the other way around. Is that the same? Well, it's not. Well, war could be one person could start a war that means you're not fighting in it.

12:24 Sure, sure, sure. I'm just saying, I don't know. I would say what you want to say. I'm not put words in your mouth, but how I understand it is: one is on the offensive. Yes, exactly. In my experience, the career woman is more on the offensive. Yes, and their main tactic is the shaming. See where we're going here? Well, like Hillary Clinton, she said, I'm not going to sit at home and bake apple pies. Correct. And just like Michelle Obama said, she's a single mom. See, it's which was a head scratch. But if you could pull off both, see, and this is the thing.

13:01 This is where the audacity and the conflict and the polarizing events, like dichotomy, all these words she use come into play. Because if you can balance that working mother, that career woman that has it all, you know, this meme, the one that has it all, but you know how this woman said it's polarizing. So to pull that off both, to go out in the working world and try to have a career and be a mom is like a very high expectation. Yeah. Well, hell yeah. And it's, and it's really a form of elitism if you can't do both. Ah, yeah. What? You can't do both?

13:44 You're not able to do both? What's wrong with you? Right. And we've heard, we've had, we've had talked about this on shows before, the pressures that mom have. And this is the point why I'm doing this. I think we have to, we can't fight this mommy war for women. No. But what we have to do is let them know that they have our support so they can be vocal, whether it's they feel like they're being and like I said, to each his own. And I know somebody got really frustrated with me saying, good luck, you know, or all the power to you to women that you like to choose to use their body.

14:22 If that's your adult choice, fine. If that's your adult choice to forego motherhood and be a career woman, that's your choice. But what I'm saying is the machine that creates these images and memes of women that have it all creates mental, unhealthy mental expectations of women. Sure. Well, that's, and yes, of course, I agree. And I think we've talked many times before that even just the fashion industry creates unhealthy. unhealthy images for women to aspire to often. And this is why I was bringing back the Megan Thee Stallion. This is why she's so effective because she has that body image not

15:02 typical to the modeling industry. She's a more full-figure woman. She's educated, but she still can, you know what I'm saying? She's still fun. I don't have anything personal against Megan Thee Stallion, but when you allow yourself to be used, or maybe it's a Britney Spears situation, you know what I'm saying? When you sign on, when you sign on to these things, we need to start looking at how many stars are under what control. It's interesting. Last night, Tina and I were talking when Michael, we were playing Michael Jackson popped up on the playlist. And I was like, you know, this is 40 years old. And then, and I said, you know, really, we talked about it. I said, the guy was kind of a similar story to Britney Spears, only different, obviously.

15:45 But he was on stage when he was on stage when he was five. You know, completely controlled by his father. And, you know, and that carries on. Like Britney Spears, damaged, man, damaged from the Disney Club, the Mickey Mouse Club. I don't think you can ever really undo that. I mean, that's just who you've been trained to be. And it's a system. Yeah. This is not by happenstance. This is a system where we, okay. And I know I'm going to hit this right quick and I'm going to show you. We're going to walk right into clip four. Black radio in any city advertise. Is your kid want to be a Disney star? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Bring them down to the convention center. So

16:29 poke and prod them, right? You know what I'm saying? Basically, you know, now, because I had to, I mean, me having three daughters, me and Mrs. Facts had to have a serious conversation. Like, nah, that's not happening because I'm saying my kids are saying, uh, are blessed with being attractive or cute or whatever you want to call it. So I'm like, nah, you're not taking them there to be picked and then move up a level and then extend those. It's presented as such a way out, isn't it? It's the same with the toddlers and tiaras. And it's so attractive for parents because you feel good. Oh, my kid is beautiful or is wanted or is desirable or is pretty, whatever it is.

17:10 And oh boy, I could, you know, the kid could be on the path, could have a career thinking that that is, you know, that show business is a groovy way to go. And the Disney machine feeds this, and you can see it play out in reality TV. And this is going back to Megan Thee Stallion because I want to get to clip four. Her memes, you got to look at Hot Girl Summer. We talked about this in show 52. Listen to how Hot Girl Summer, I mean, created by Megan Thee Stallion, penetrated the culture and took hold. We have Wendy Williams here talking to a black woman whose name is India and she's wearing a blonde wig.

17:54 Clip four. You're a wig designer. Yeah. Yeah, you designed the hell out of that one. Thank you. So, how can I help you, India? So, my sister kind of had a hot girl summer this summer. She was messing around with like three guys, and now she's pregnant. And we don't know who the father is. So, my advice, so my question to you is: how do I advise her without judging her? Is it your little sister or big sister? My older sister. Damn, that's a good idea. And she doesn't know who the father is. Well, she only messed around with three guys. Only three.

18:38 So, what she needs to do is visit each guy. Now, is she showing yet? No. Perfect. Here's the plot. She is going to visit each guy and take their toothbrushes. Okay. And you get that DNA test done so that she doesn't look whorish when she goes back and says, who's the father? Who's the father? Who's the father? You understand? Yeah. So she was using no protection, just screwing around. No, hot girls don't do that. She was hot hat. Hot stupid. But the thing is, is that you need the DNA test.

19:21 And the best way to do it is to grab the toothbrush. I love how Jerry Springer became a black woman. And that's Jerry Springer set the mold for the 90s and daytime television, which birthed a whole nother generation. You see, I mean, these, and this is why I don't get into like the characters or whatever. It's. what are they pushing? And for her to be pushing hot girl summer and not laying out, I mean, the real consequences. And maybe, hey, maybe this adds to the 75% single parent rate in our community, quote unquote community.

20:05 Yeah. You see what I'm saying? I'm not about to go, oh, Perg or you on you, but I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying, does this have an effect on that? And I'm sure it does. Well, it certainly doesn't seem like just something to laugh and joke about, but this is why I don't watch Wendy Williams. No, I'm just saying, but this is why if whatever meme they can give Megan thee stallion or she comes up with, it will take hold. And that's why I'm sounding an alarm. Yeah, hot girl summary, that crossed my Twitter several times. And then I think it morphed, you know, like hot boy summer, et cetera, et cetera. But hot girl summer was definitely a thing that I saw too. Yes. So it was broad is what I'm saying, since black Twitter refuses to connect to me.

20:50 They won't let you in. Twitter won't let me see it. Hey, he's got that show. That's enough. Don't give him too much information. Well, I'm just saying that the reason why I brought up the blonde wig is this is un you can choose whatever color hair you want, but I'm just saying the beauty standards that are set by this machine chews up women and spits them out. And then on the other side of that, the educational requirements, you know, go to school, you know, and don't learn how to have soft skills and these kind of things and excessive confidence, which isn't, I mean, when I hear excessive confidence, that makes me think toxic.

21:36 So it's just a form of toxic femininity. You know, to have the expectation. Nice. I'm just saying to have the expectation that you need to have excessive confidence. If I told young men that, they would say that was toxic masculinity. Yes. By the way, whenever I hear Audacity, you know what pops into my head? The first association? What's that? Obama's book, Audacity of Hope. And sure, it's not an accident. I'm sure it's not. I'm sure it's not. So now we have to go into go back to the conversation between Megan Thee Stallion and Maxine Waters.

22:15 And this is clip number five. When I think about you and you continuing your education, I said to myself, you know what? She doesn't have to go to nobody's school anymore. She's got it. She's done it. She's got it made. So that is so absolutely commendable that you continue to focus on education when, you know, you don't have to. I mean, you know, people go to school to try to get to where you are. And here you are in this place and you're still, you know, paying attention to the people.

22:52 So that's very, very commendable. My mother and my great-grandmother passed away recently, but my grandmother is still alive and she will whoop my butt. Even me at 25, she will whoop my butt if I dropped out of college. So I'm like, you know what? I'm not only getting a degree for myself, I'm getting it for the women in my family who originally pushed me to go to school anyway. That's why I remember if you had, you know, grandmama, great-grandmama, mama, and all of that, I know what they said. Girl, get educated because they can't take it out of your head. They can't take it away from you. That's what they always said, right? Get educated. My great-grandmother will always say, get them papers.

23:37 But that's great. And again, I commend you for continuing to do that. And now I understand even more why it's important to you. You're not just doing it for yourself. You're doing it for them. What always worries me is how so many people can listen to the exact same clip or watch the same video and just come walk away with a totally different idea of what was being said. The way they place the words. This is why these people are valuable. When you can say something and people can walk away with it, like you said, and everybody feels like they, oh, well, okay, I agree and I agree.

24:19 And then two people sit down and talk about what they heard. And it's like there's no agreement between the two people, but they both agree with her. Right. That is no wonder. Maxine in her 80s is still there. You're right. She says she's very skillful. Because one thing she says is, oh, you don't have to go to school anymore, but you want to go to school. to school, but then she turns around and tells says how important schooling is. Yeah, they can't take it out of your head, right? Which wait, we're gonna get to that one because that is a meme of all memes in the black community. Um, that get education in your head and they can't take it away from you. Oh, my God. Are we gonna come back to that? Because I have something to say about it. I want to do it now. But no, we can go ahead and do it now.

25:04 Oh, do it live. All right, we'll do it live, everybody. Well, I wish that the new uh black in your head meme would be your Bitcoin wallet address is in your head, they can't take your money away of what's in your head. Yeah, and that's it. It's the similar, except this would be very valuable too. If the government can't take away your money, can't steal from you, then you have total control over it. They it's with Bitcoin, literally, they can't take your Bitcoin away if you've memorized like 12 words, it's in your head. So, anyway, and what that means in your head is like, get a

25:47 get let's just be we're gonna have an honest conversation here. We always do, but we're gonna go a little deeper here. Your degree is your freedom papers, yes. This is your ticket to whiteness, and not whiteness as in complexion or race or anything like that into the into the system, right? And then, and it's the same. What I realize is we're not the only ones that have this, but we're not aware of this. And uh, at the same time, there's a countering meme that says, if you're smart, you're weak, and this is where the divide comes between these two communities.

26:29 We're looking at it on the female side, but nonetheless, okay. See, I mean, education is a very, I mean, it goes back to slaves not being allowed to read. It's a very hot button ticket. And I'm going to be honest with you: if somebody treats me like I'm uneducated, that is a real, um, for lack of better word, microaggression. You know what I'm saying? And I mean that in the actual terms of it, like, no, don't play me like I'm dumb. And that's why this is a very sensitive subject for our people. But at the same time, what they done is white supremacy, let's talk about the world, one world government.

27:13 Is if you don't have papers, you're not anybody. Don't you see? Like I said, it starts with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it starts with us. Yes. Okay, so let me just let me just play this back to you. So, what you're saying is, um, your perception is that often as someone will say something, you assuming or presuming that you're that you're uneducated just based upon your exterior, exterior appearance, right? And what that comes in is the it's not, I've never had overt, they're like, oh, you're dumb, right? It really comes from the opposite side of pandering or the lower expectations.

27:52 See, real racism isn't, oh, you know, uh, real racism is not, uh, you know, we think black people are dumb. Like, this comes overtly. Real racism is when you say, oh, I didn't think you could do that. You said pat me on my head. It's for you. Right. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That is real. Why? So I'm just explaining why this is important. And it's even more important to black women. And I'm not here. Like I said, we humanize people, but we also got to see where the ideas come from so we can truly understand them and, you know, and do away with them if they're not productive.

28:38 So getting the papers. Degrees also are seen as a way from being liberated from men for both black and white women and women all color. Because when you have education, you don't need financially, you're not financially tied to a man. Right. You know what you see? Well, there's one extra aspect to the education is we've seen certainly in the past three to five years, a lot of young people graduate. They often have degrees in areas that really, either there's a lot of work for it, like social justice, but anything else, most young people come out, look around and say, okay, there's

29:27 $12 an hour jobs for me. What the hell did I waste all my time in college for? And that's what men are kind of trying to tell women. It's like, don't trade away four years and a hundred thousand dollars in debt to go sit in the cubicle. We hate this. I mean, let's be honest, like, we hate it, but we do it so we can, you know, put you in a situation where you can do what you want to. I mean, that's it. That's in a functioning relationship, right? I mean, we're not, and then we got to fast forward a little bit, but we're not in the days of where you know you're at home like barefoot and pregnant. Women are women are able to do it both, but the key word, and let's just go back a little bit, um, is the career woman, not the career, not the working woman, but the working career woman.

30:15 Gotcha. So, you dedicate everything to your career because a woman can easily have children and run two or three small businesses out of her home. Sure, have a different be financially independent, or maybe even the breadwinner in the house. So, that's not what we're saying. We're saying this rat race that men go through, don't you go to it? We try to say, Hey, we've we're in the rat race. Wow, well, that white men, I don't think, think that way about white women, really. No, no, I think it's uh, it's so deeply ingrained that it's like, Yes, yes, go, go, go. Not even for a moment thinking you might see it really sucks.

30:56 I don't, yeah, I don't think so. I don't think we've gotten to that point yet. And the other reason is all these weird ideologies that you learn in these liberal universities, yeah. And we gotta get, we got it moving on, we're gonna go back to the movie Black Girl 1972, uh, Brock Peters and Leslie Ugams. I think I pronounced that, and let me just set it up right quick. So, we have the eldest daughters, Norma Faye and Ruth Ann of Mama Rosie. She's the mother, and those are her two eldest daughters. Um, their father returned to town hoping to rekindle a relationship with Mama Rosie. Um, Mama Rosie speaks about her dreams, and we just take it from there.

31:40 Um, getting into black girls, clip number six. Rosie didn't tell you, but she's done going to keeping girls every now and then. First, now it was just one of Norman and Ruth Ann's friends that didn't have no place to stay. Now, every stray alley cat in town done found them a good thing. Dear, I don't like that. You getting any money for this, Rosie? I don't want no money for it. Let me get this straight. You mean you just gives a girl a home who ain't got no home just out of the goodness of your heart? I love those girls like they was my own daughters. Oh, well, uh, Norma Faye and Ruth Ann and Billie Jean wasn't enough for you, huh?

32:23 They don't appreciate me like them other girls do. Maybe if you would appreciate us more, Mama, what is that appreciate, Norma Faye? I don't see none of y'all's graduation pictures up there. You and Luthan couldn't keep your dresses down. Oh, y'all got caught, huh? Yeah, I got caught. Wait, Billy Jean like to shake her tail. She's next. I don't put no faith in Nom no more. Damn it. Excuse me. I wanted to watch this movie. I didn't get to it. Because I know we've played some of these clips or clips for different clips from it. So this is Mama Rosie shaming her two daughters because they chose to have children.

33:06 And I want to be clear: those children were not bastards. They were married to their husbands, but they didn't go on to get any education. And you hear this shaming for Mother Mama Rosie. And you hear their father and Madir, which is, I think, just long for Madea. It's spelled the same way without the R. I mean, with the R, excuse me. But you hear her shaming, like, I don't see any of y'all graduation pictures up there. And you hear the term the father used that y'all got caught, huh? Yeah. So this is where that fissure comes from of the it's it's the same thing in society.

33:49 It's the elitist mentality that education or formal education puts you in a higher standing in society. Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Sure. And then the hierarchy on the women's side is educated, mom, you know what I'm saying? Because it's like, it's a hierarchy. If you're educated, career woman, and mom, then you have the educated career woman without being a mom. And then you have like kind of like the mom. And then you have the, you know, the woman without like, it's like single mother, which she might be, excuse me, the single mother at the very top, but at the very bottom of it

34:29 is the. the woman that is married with children and no formal education or career. It's very sad. I mean, like I said, the reason why I'm bringing this up is this is the globalist plan to drive a wedge between the natural order of men and women. We can both coexist if you use technology in its proper form. If you use all the things that this society has, it's not a bad society by no means. But it's the pressure that they put on through these people like Megan Astallion for the people that Maxine Water serves.

35:14 The question that immediately pops to mind now, Maxine Waters, when you say this is the plan, and of course, I'm all in, I'm all in with you. I'm just hearing people saying, well, who's making this plan? And when did this plan come up? And why are they doing it? And is it, are they really conscious that they're doing it when? Now, Maxine Waters, I think, is very conscious of what she's doing. Well, Maxine Waters' job is to harness votes. I mean, that's her only job. And she goes out and harness votes by being Auntie Maxine. Right, but she's got some real stuff we talked about is a. But she's got some real subversive stuff she's saying, though.

35:53 Yes. She's a word. I mean, she's a witch. I mean, like, I mean, if you want to talk about witchcraft and the term we use as being controlling, she's a master master witch or, you know, whatever you, however, their rank is. The grand poobah. Yeah. Yeah. It's no, it's no wonder why. And the thing is, and she resonates with women that target voters because she's done it, right? She's ran the gamut. She has children and she has a career. But at the same time, they shame, like I said, it's a shaming, it's a shaming tactic. And I'm just going to the root of it by using this movie. And you heard her say it. But it's, and I don't want to dehumanize Mama Rosie.

36:38 Mama Rosie's coming from the place of if you have education, then all your choices are your choices, which I don't disagree with. I don't disagree with that. That's true. If you have some kind of education, but it's the formal education I have the problem with. Yeah. It's so many crafts and skills and talents that you can harness to. I mean, hell, we're doing it now. I mean, just look, I mean, we're actually to break down the fourth wall for a minute. That's what we're doing. And it's well, like I said, all we're trying to say is it's hard work wearing the pants. But we, as black people, are steady wrestling for the pants. And we're like, you don't want these pants, trust me.

37:24 And what it does is just makes these people reliant on the system in one way or the other. Because you think about it, if you're a single mother and you're working, what are they pushing? Well, this is very pre-K. Yeah. This is kind of this is courageous what you're doing here because I think most men, or I'm sorry, that's not fair to say. I think there's a large segment that are like, hey, you know what? Why don't you try it for a while? Why don't you try these pants on? Where you're saying, you know, I just want to let you know the pants kind of suck sometimes. And to be honest with you, that's who we need to. I can't say that.

38:01 I can say it from my perspective that you don't want to have these pants. But what I'm trying to do, and I hope other men would try to do is this is just my perspective, make it safe for women that have went through it to say, dad, that's not the move. Right. That's not what you want to do. And then for women that are, you know, actually being wives and mothers, and we come off the bottom, we want to take them with us. Right. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Because like we're the bottom bottom, but that thin layer on top of there, it's, and I'm just going to say it, black married women, happily married women with children. Like that, there's that, that's that thin layer on top of the bottom called black men. And they're shamed the most.

38:44 I mean, like, I mean, you see, look at look at Candace Owens. And I'm not, I mean, me and me and Candace, I agree with her on something. I don't agree with her on some things. I'm just saying that if she had a different message, she would be that she would be the next Oprah. But because of her message, it's like, no, no, no. She's dark skinned. She's attractive. All the key points that be woke, you know what I'm saying? Of the woke, but it's like, oh, you got the wrong. You got the mask. Wrong message. So we have to shame you. And look at the shaming they do over there. I mean, that's why I said shame is a through line through this whole episode because that's the number one weapon for control.

39:25 aka witchcraft. It is all we're going there early. Oh, wow. It is also the number one recommended mechanism. Yes. I may read it in the press all the time. Politicians said, we need to call these people out. They need to be shamed. This was this, and this started with Obama, the shaming, the use of the word, not him necessarily, but during that time period, shaming, calling out. I think Obama was big on, we're going to call you out. Well, the way I look at it is like this: I don't think it started with Obama. I think Obama came in at the time of social media. So social media is the platform for shaming.

40:05 Right. This is what we call canceling, roasting all these things. So it came with him. And what happened was the younger crowd that were computer savvy were more liberal at the time. So they were able to use these memes and other methods to attack. And they caught up quickly. Yeah, and they perfected the mechanism. They learned how to do it. They learned what words to use. They used how to do it to do it in very short sentences, etc. Right. Because they used to have those. Remember those oaths used to the oaths you used to sign as a conservative? Like, I pledge. It was a pledge or something. Like, all of them had to sign it, right? Oh, like the Republican pledge or something.

40:46 Yes, yes. That's what I mean. So, those, what I'm saying is, those became a pledge online. It's like, you got to align to this. And I'll say the conservatives have the better memes. I mean, they are meme masters. I mean, just look at me as being unbiased because it's the you have so much hypocrisy. The magic of a meme is the hypocrisy, right? Right, right, right. So, um, let's get back. I think we stopped at six. Let's go on to seven. My girl, Netta. Oh, she's gonna pull me through. Do you know when she gets her diploma? She's gonna come back here and teach.

41:27 What is so big about a teacher, Mama? I mean, you go into some white woman's kitchen, you liable to find one working there. So, what is the sense in spending all that time in some fancy college just to come out and work in a kitchen? That ain't gonna happen to my netta. How do you know that, mama? I know because she's smart, that's why she done won all kinds of awards and scholarships, and they can't mess with you when you're smart. And the spiritualists told me that a child that was mine was gonna make me happy one day. Now, you can roll all you want, but I don't see none of y'all helping me get nothing.

42:12 Oh, Billy King got on all my designs that's a mess. Can't take that away from you. You hear it? It's the same thing Maxine Water said. Yep. Like I said, this is a running, which I guess I'm not dumping on education. That's not what I'm doing. The problem is, you go off to these universities and you trust everything they say to be true. So, all they have to do is poison what they feed you at the universities. See, they don't keep you out. No, they don't keep you out of the universities. And really, if you want to think sinister, you know, saying just from a dark place,

42:53 if you wanted to control the people, the population, or you know, saying society, you put your smartest and brightest and gifted classes at your very young age and you steer them there. And you make sure that those advanced classes have certain curriculum that are mandated by the endowments given by the largest philanthropic organizations in the world. Correct. Because that money is earmarked. It goes in and says, Here you go. As long as it's social justice classes, you can use it. And we saw that with all these companies coming out: Black women, 10 billion, 10 million, 5 million.

43:36 Right? That's to say, you have to come under our understanding to get this money. And this is where you get massage noir from. This is where you get Hopper Bazaar, which is not a Black publication or even a Black targeted publication writing about this stuff. Yeah. Right? They don't want to be able to do that. Well, what they want, well, what Harper's Bazaar, and I have to look into a quick check to see who owns it. What Harper's Bazaar wants is they want, they obviously want readers, but they want control. Look at you got all the ends of the spectrum. You got Maxine Waters on your cover with Meghan Neustallion. I mean, could you do any better from a commercial standpoint, which I think is what they're always motivated by?

44:20 I don't think so. I don't think what I'm saying is by the, and I think you brought up something on Rogue's show, uh, shameless plug. Um, uh, of uh, ESG or EGS, yeah, ESG's environmental, social, corporate governance, right? That's what these companies are more, and it's not that what I'm saying specifically, but their posturing is more important than profits right now. No, in fact, well, what I what I said on the Rogan show is the ESG, which includes climate change and woke thinking. Let me just put it that way. And you can go to the biggest companies in the world and see their ESG.

45:02 Raytheon is a great example. It's now, it's in the news. Um, so the executives of the corporation and shareholders benefit by uh adhering to these um really non-business goals to a large degree or showing that they're woke or showing that they're climate change, they're on board with climate change, regardless of whether it's true or not, because that will have then they're more investable. When you're more investible, the stock price goes up, the people who are running the corporation win. And that's exactly why they target black women because it's a double win.

45:40 So, yeah, so it's financially driven for the, for these companies, and it's, but I don't think, well, find okay, let me be clear. I'm not talking about short-term profits. I mean, that's what I'm saying. They're not focused on that, they're focused on being established. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's compartmentalized. I'm sorry. I'm thinking, I didn't explain that right. The people who are at Harper's Bazaar, which is owned by Hearst, and Hearst and Dvorak knows Hearst very well. And it's really about profit. Of course, there's a lot of social justice stuff in there, but that's one level above the excitement for an editorial team to get Maxine Waters and Megan Thee Stallion.

46:23 They are being used, is my point. Harper's Bazaar is not doing anything out of their own accord. Right. Well, we can agree on that. I mean, yeah, but I want to make sure that the people that made the phone call to get Megan Thee Stallion on that cover are not working out of profits. They're working out of we need to get these, her resume built up. New York Times, op-ed. Now she has Harper Bazaar. It's because she's going to be so valuable. I mean, and let me just, I'll skip back something right quick with the talking education. The reason why they choose a Megan Thee Stallion is Cardi B failed.

47:01 She went too far. She screwed it up. Well, no, Cardi B is seen as not my words, Candace Owens' words, illiterate. Yeah. And that was a bad look. So they're like, we need somebody that actually can actually put string 10 words together. Yes. And her moment was with Anthony Fauci, and that's where she failed. Well, her moments was with Joe Biden and even in 2024, they'd be talking. Whoever the Democratic candidate is, will be talking to Megan Stanley. Megan thee stallion. Yes, I got you. I got you. We talked about that on 63. That's good. We reiterated it.

47:41 Right. I'm just saying. So that's the whole point of this. We have to build it. So we can say, oh, you know, Megan, she's credible because she was on Harper Bazaar and she was on New York Times. Irregardless, nobody's going to buy that magazine except for maybe Megan Stans. But it's the point of, it validates her the same way a degree validates, you know, it's the same validation process. Of course, the same way I'm saying, yeah, same way a video on YouTube with Steve Jobs validates me. I'm just putting it out there, brother. And then how Joe Rogan revalidated me. And that's that's what we're trying to get away from. Right.

48:24 We want to say the talent should validate you. I mean, and yours did. I mean, you're not saying, oh, you're just famous for being famous. It's like, dude, I'm saving podcasts two times. I mean, what did you do this morning? You know what I'm saying? So that kind of thing, right? Or, I mean, that's what I try to do here when we bring, that's the problem. Just for a quick aside, that's why value for value is important. I have to come with the value to receive the value back. Absolutely. Boost us, baby. If you're listening on a podcasting 2.0 app, go ahead, newpodcastlabs.com. Boost us now. Thank you. So now moving, I think we started the seven. Let's get into eight. And we want to, okay, let me set this up for one quick minute.

49:03 Now, okay, Rosie returns home from talking with her, the her ex-husband. And Mama Rose, excuse me, Ma Dia sent. senses something off with her. So they engage in a conversation that kind of turns south really fast. Rosie, your girls ain't no babies, and neither is you. It's a sin for a woman as young as you to be walking around here burning. God didn't mean for us to burn like that, you know. Oh, Herbert interpretated that vibe to you that way, just so as he could get half of your bed.

49:40 Smarter than I thought he was. But nobody else don't have to tell me that when it comes to nature, that Bible belongs on the shelf, not myself. You know, I know where you got them ideas from. Old Auntie. Oh, Lord. If I'd have known leaving you with that old woman was going to make this big a fool of you, I'd have rather gived you away and never seen you again. You come pretty close to doing it as a buzz, Mama. You never gonna forget that, is you, Rosie? Auntie didn't let me forget it, mama. Morning, noon, and night.

50:23 If it wasn't for your mama leaving your daddy, I wouldn't be fooling with you. Just the beginning. What did she say? You're walking around here burning. Is that what she said? Yeah, uh, Mama Rosie. I mean, my dear was a hot girl. Oh, okay. Burning. Okay, I just had to figure out the slang goddess. Yeah, what she means is like you're saying, like, horny, basically. I mean, for lack of better word. I got you. But this is everybody thinks that morality is linear, right? We were like super moral, and we just kind of drifted down like in a linear fashion to depravity or wherever we're at now. No, that's not how it works. Like, we had this weird fault. Now, I'm going somewhere, so you got to follow me.

51:07 Okay, so my dear is Rosie's mama. And the girls, the daughters, the one that had kids, and the one that likes to dance, grandma. So she went and left Mama Rosie with her auntie while she was out being hot. Now she has to come back and live with Mama Rosie, and she got Earl, her live-in boyfriend, that pays her rent for her. Now, you see, now she's like, well, hey, I got knees. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time, Mama Rosie looking at her mama, like, you left me and you don't even have nowhere to live.

51:49 And you still worried about a man. You see these dynamics playing out. And the thing is, if you do the age right, My Dea will be a flapper. A flapper. Are you familiar with a flapper? No. A flapper is basically what a hot girl is back in the 1920s. It's like we're in this hundred-year fold. Yeah, well, yeah, that's an interesting way of the fold. Yeah. So the 1920s, the roaring 20s, the wild 20s, that's where we're at right now. Flappers were a generation of young Western women in the 1920s who wore shirt skirts, knee height was considered short, bobbed their hair, listened to jazz, which was, you know, which was the Megan, which was the Cardi B of the time, or perceived as such, and flaunted their disdain for what was then

52:43 considered, of course, drugs, what was then considered acceptable behavior. Flappers were seen as brash for wearing excessive makeup, drinking alcohol. Okay, I got it. I got you covered. I got you. Flappers are the quintessential symbol of the 1920s. You can recognize them immediately by their fashion, their dancing, and their sex appeal. But who were they? How did they become flappers? Let's find out. The origins of the word flapper are a little bit foggy since it originated in slang. But some sources say that flapper was once used to refer to young prostitutes in England and developed into a word referring to excitable teenage girls.

53:25 The rise of the American flapper had its beginnings in the social climate at the end of World War I. It had been a brutal, bloody war that had killed millions of people, often pointlessly. Following the war, a massive Spanish flu pandemic swept the world, one of the deadliest in human history, killing millions of others. Many began to realize that their life could be much shorter than they realized. They could die from reasons completely beyond their control. Young people especially took this to heart. Those who were in the prime of their life opted for fun and pleasure instead of wallowing in the woes of their situation. Wow. Important clip. Very important clip for in any context of this period.

54:07 This is, I see this happening. happening. This is only fans. This is everything. The pandemic. My goodness. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And we've, and we just ended a war a 20 years war. We just ended a war and we're going through a pandemic. And I'm letting everybody not get ready, letting everybody know now we're going to experience a sexual tsunami. Yeah, I believe you. Oh, it's dry now. Oh, oh, it's dry. It's dry. You know what I'm saying? And everybody's going to walk up to see where the water go. And as soon as they say it's open back up 100%, you're about to see something that you never, well, we've seen it before. And this is why we do this show because you have to look backwards to see Ford.

54:52 Holy crap. This is good, Mo. I love this. And this is why my dear, you know what I'm saying? She left her child. Age lines up with Flapper age. And this is the attitude they had. And to give you an idea of a black flapper, think Shook Avery from the color purple. That's just to give you an idea. We're going to go deeper and explore it deeper into Shook Avery, but let's continue on with Flapper 2. Women were finally able to vote in the 1920 presidential election, allowing them to have more influence in shaping their society. Women were also better able to get jobs by the 1920s, and they could often earn enough money to be self-sufficient and spend their money however they wanted to.

55:36 A little bit earlier that same year, the 18th Amendment had also passed, which prohibited the production, sale, and transportation of alcohol. The prohibition movement had been championed in large part by progressives as well as religious leaders who believed that alcohol was a poison on society. Flappers took to drinking alcohol partly because it was illegal and therefore exciting. And it also contributed to their devil-may care attitude. Women's increasing freedom and the youth who are looking to get the best out of life began to lead to the creation of the flapper. Flappers were a direct challenge to the conservatism of the Victorian and Edwardian eras. Many young women no longer wanted to be confined to a tight-fitting corset or be restricted only to formal ballroom dancing.

56:20 They wanted to express their newfound desire for pleasure in all of its forms. The development of flappers was also helped along by the growing movie culture of the late 1910s and early 1920s. The glamour of Hollywood with all of its hedonistic glory was a constant beacon for young people. Actresses wore makeup, something which had previously been associated with prostitutes, but now it was a symbol of glamour and the freedom to look as one wanted. Whoa, all right, let me give you the analogy. I love this mode. You're tripping me out. The analogy, the only thing that's changed. So we had the war, World War I, we had Afghanistan, but you can name five other wars.

57:00 We had the pandemic, which is the same as the flu pandemic, except it's not Hollywood. It's TikTok and it's Instagram. Social media. And the thing is, we haven't had social media for even 20 years yet. Right. We're still, I mean, what, 2007, maybe? I can tell you exactly. Twitter and Facebook both came on the scene and YouTube in the 2006 to 2008 timeframe. Yeah, I don't count social media pre-smartphone. Because a lot of people wasn't really into it. But I'm saying like the, and maybe the smartphone might be the new technology. Well, the iPhone came. The iPhone came out and, yes, I think the iPhone came out in 2007.

57:44 Yes, that's what I'm going off of because that's the portal. Yeah. I mean, the social media and message boards always existed, but it can pipe right into your, like a television went through the 1950s. June 28th. 1920s with movies. And June 28th, 2007. So right, so right around this time, too. Yeah, so we're at 16 years in. No, 15. Yes, 14 years in. Excuse me. So, yeah. I think we're headed for another 20. I mean, these 20, but you see it lining up. And the thing with makeup, it's about who you want to be. And I know people like, where are you going with this?

58:26 But we have to go look back at you. I don't care where you're going. I'm just holding on for dear life. We had to go back and look at Mama Rosie's and my dear's relationship. She didn't do what she needed to do in life. And now she's a burden, quote-unquote, burden on her daughter. I mean, we have these, it's going to be a lot of combined living with the family structure being disrupted the way it is. We live in it. And I want, this is why I say this. This is the biggest fantasy that we have. We live in a two-paycheck society. Get that through your head, whether it's a roommate. roommate, whether it's whoever, it's a mother and a daughter living together.

59:10 It doesn't matter. There's practically no other way you can afford anything without a two-paycheck. And that's the trick because this independence they sell you is you're going to have to live with somebody. Right. Very few people make enough money. And what I mean by few is percentage-wise that can pay everything they want to pay and live the life of conspicuous consumption that they want to participate in. True. So, I mean, I just want me, I just want to lay that out there. And one more fun fact. Isn't it amazing how the corset was

59:50 a sign of restriction? And now it's like the one symbolism of sex work. Yeah, you want, yeah, well, you want to have that really tight corset for the curves. But these women flapper were trying to shed that. That is interesting. That's crazy, right? I just thought, I mean, it says a fun fact. I thought that kind of interesting. So let's move on to number 11. While still a prototype for the flapper that was to appear in the following years, Thomas's character shows all the basic characteristics: longing for pleasure and fun, and drastically changing her fashion and appearance. She even tried smoking a cigarette for the first time, something that was also related to flappers because it was a symbol of freedom.

1:00:31 Music was also important in the development of the flapper. Jazz music had emerged largely in black communities, particularly in New Orleans, in the previous decades. After the first jazz records were recorded by the original Dixie Land Jazz Band in 1917, the trend cut fire across the country. An earlier prototype of the flapper attitude can be seen in singers such as Marion Harris, who transitioned into an early jazz vocalist beginning around 1917. Her showy jazz tunes filled with personality were a channel that helped to further bring jazz to white communities. Jazz became a staple for flappers because it was fast, fun, and great for dancing. It was also scorned by the older generation for being too risque and too closely associated with black communities.

1:01:15 Jazz was not just music, but also a social force. The ideal setting for a flapper would be dancing to fast jazz music while wearing a short dress and drinking illegal alcohol and smoking cigarettes. This was the epitome of rebellion at that time. Youth and rebellion have been a common theme seen in every generation since the 1920s, just in different forms. Enter the twerk and trap. And trap, yes. And TikTok. Now the TikTok dances are what done to what? Trap. Yep. It's the same. And as he said, it's a channel. Jazz was a channel into white communities.

1:01:57 Hence, why Megan Nee Stallion is even more valuable because she makes the music that the TikTok is made to. Oh, man. They have really sophisticated the whole process. It took them 100 years, but they really got it down now. Well, and the thing was, this is the first time ever that marketing to youth rebellion was, you know, saying popular, but it's been used ever since the 1920s, 1950s, 1960s, 70s, you know, on 80s. Every, it's all about the youth. Everything is for uh targeted towards the youth rebellion, which is nothing but control opposition.

1:02:35 Yes, and that's, I would say, that probably really started with in this era with MTV, BET. I think that's probably when, oh, wait a minute, you can do it. Rap. Hip-hop rap. Yeah. Well, rap, yes, exactly. Rap was the was the ship because I mean, before, I mean, most time when you look at older artists, they were adults, even in like Aretha Franklin and, you know, people that they were adults in their, you know, in their prime. Rap was the first time where you actually targeted young children to be the, you know, the leaders of the music. You could even

1:03:18 take it back a little further. One could argue Michael Jackson started with the crotch grabbing, emulated by Madonna. And then I'm bad. Yeah. I'm bad. Yeah. And it kind of went from there, you know? Although, arguably, Elvis Elvis the Pelvis Presley was also using versions of that with black music. That's why I said it go. It goes back from the 1920s. That was the beginning. But everyone back in my head, I'm thinking about, okay, that was that. That was that. That was that. And here we are. Yeah. Fantastic. Which they always do that. You know, they always emulate what's happening on in black culture. And I.

1:03:59 I got a reason for that, or at least understanding why they think that is. But to go to a flapper and where we might understand one, I don't know if you remember or not. Her name was Shook Avery in the movie Color Purple. Okay. And here, this is very, very important that I come clean on this. I don't think we've discussed it. I have not read the book. I have not seen the movie. It all came out at a time when I was doing other things, wasn't paying attention, have never gotten around to it. So I don't even know the plot line. Yeah, well, I'll break. I'll give it to you in like one minute. So basically, you have Ceely, which is sold off to Mr. in like an arranged marriage.

1:04:41 Mr. basically used her for this, this is how they portray it. Use her for domestic labor and to for his sexual needs. But he's always loved a woman named Shook Avery, who was a flapper, ideal flapper. She sung in jute joints and had children similar and didn't take care of them similar to my dear. So she was a woman of the streets. So they end up moving and he moves Shook Avery in the house with him and Seeley. And then they form a bond, but they beef it first, but then they form a bond against Mr. So it's symbolic of what this whole episode is. But

1:05:25 let's this is when he uh mr., which is he I don't want to really get in that, but he's like the prototypical bad guy in Tyler Perry movies now, like this really bad black man, uh, which is really his funny name is Mr. One Short Letter Different from Master. Don't let that be lost on me. Gotcha. Um, so you have Color Purple, Shook Avery One. What's the matter with you? You crazy? You know, weak little boy. Case ain't no hanging on me. I need me a bed.

1:06:09 You hear a banddam sinking path out. Get that thing to make me something to eat. No, no, I'll make it myself. So this is her. He brought her into the house with him and I don't want to use the word wife, but Ceely, the woman that he was like basically using from the mother of his children. And even then, the flapper was like cussing both of them out. So the reason why I brought this up is

1:06:55 these women that control, control their sex appeal and you're saying control a man through their sexual abilities, they live in a different world. Attractive women live in a different world. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that this is why, how can I say this? Be politically correct. You'll see two women talking. They want to be extremely more attractive than the other, but then the other one won't be honest. The pretty one won't be honest with the average looking one. It's like, no, you know, you know, you're 10-2. You know, you're a nine-two. No, you go, girl. You probably queens. Yes. Right. That's how it's.

1:07:36 Yeah. So what I'm saying is, this is goes back, and I know people might be getting frustrated with me, but it's this mentality of the media. My enemy here is, I'll kind of be honest with you. My number one target is Mickey Mouse. Right. He got to go. Mickey Mouse got to go. I mean, because he's pumping out a lot of negative, negative energy. Um, and the expectation women think they should have. Well, Mickey Mouse owns your ESPN. So, you know, you got a long way to go before the mouse is gone. Right. And that's what I'm saying. We all have to do. We all have to stand up to the mouse. But the mouse is, you know, say, is running stuff right now.

1:08:19 Got to write that down. No, we have to simplify it, right? We have to win in these meme wars. And to say Disney and ABC and EMC, no, Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse got to go. But not to get too far track. What I'm just saying is when you're pretty, that's a privilege. I'm just going to say it. And it being a privilege, no different than white privilege or genetic privilege or these other things. But not to acknowledge it that it benefits you certain, you know. luxuries in life is dishonest.

1:08:59 That's why I played that clip. Sure. So, but I'm also pointing a pit laying out a picture of what the flappers look like because when we look forward, this is what we're going to see, the downfall of being a flapper. So now we have Shook Avery. She's taking a bath now, and Ceely is pouring her bath and taking care of her. Now, let me make clear. The woman of the house is taking care of the other woman in her house, and they're both getting crap talked to him. Yeah, this doesn't seem like a healthy situation. It does not. 13. What you staring at? Never seen a nigga and woman before? You got any cheering? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Me, I ain't that old.

1:09:41 Two. Where they at? I don't know. Who are you? Ceely, man. You ain't well. Mind your own goddamn business. I feel just fine. Just had to eat. Now give me some more bubbling oil and put it in this tub. You got kids. Yeah.

1:10:25 It was my mom, Paul. Never know the child to come out right unless he's a man around. Children got to have a paw. So that just goes to show you even more that the privilege. And I know people are like, where are you going with this mode? But the color purple itself is one of the major memes in black society. It shaped a lot. I mean, because we talk about the technology thing. All this relates. So just hang on for a second. The technology of the 80s was the VCR.

1:11:10 Yes, sir. You were able to bring every movie into your house. And people would sit out and watch this movie three, four times a day. Wow. Or once a weekend, or we played on every weekend on BET. You know what I'm saying? It was constantly being pumped in, pumped in, pumped. I mean, because you don't have any television, I mean, no cable or nothing. You have to watch movies. And VHS was a big thing. And this came at the right time with VHS. So they were married together perfectly. And back in the net was a lot of memes that exist to this day of this bad boogie man, black man, of this sisterhood between the beautiful woman that's down on her luck and the resourceful but less attractive woman.

1:11:55 And like we can come together and defeat him. Oh, that's an important one. That's an important one. We're going back to the slave queen. Oh, wow. Very cool. Right. Now we're coming back to the mommy wars and the Megan Astallion and Maxine Waters coming together. This is just another iteration of that symbolism that we can't be divided. We can't have moms against working women. So we got to be combined so we can. Oh, yeah. It's been going on for a long time, this. Yes. Yes, it has. And the reason why I brought up it being a meme is back in the flapper clips came up the cigarettes.

1:12:38 Right. So we've heard, we've talked about this before, the torches of freedom, but I want to go a little bit more in deep depth with it. And I have a clip from the man himself, Edward Bernays, on he says cigarettes to women are torches of freedom. One. While disapproving of women who smoked, men began to take up smoking in increasing numbers, partly because a flood of advertisements in what was America's newest mass medium, national magazines, made smoking attractive. These ads evoked the symbolic values many men already associated with cigarettes. Sexual appeal, sophistication, pleasure. But they failed to persuade women to risk the disapproval of their men folk by taking up cigarettes.

1:13:22 Even George Washington Hill, the advertising genius who made Lucky Strikes, America's best-selling cigarettes, couldn't figure out how to break through the social barriers that kept women from smoking. So he turned to a public relations genius, Edward Bernays. He said, we have a problem. We're losing half the market in America because there is a taboo against. against women smoking, particularly smoking in the streets. He said, I want your help on that. So I said, before I can offer you a suggestion or a recommendation, I would like your authority to visit Dr.

1:14:12 A.A. Brill, who was the leading psychoanalyst of his time. So I went to Dr. Brill and I said, Can you tell me what cigarettes mean to women? I love the Bernay story. And we should just mention that his uncle was Sigmund Freud. So it ran in the family knowing the psycho-semantics of it. And he went and talked to Dr. A.A. Brill, leading psychoanalyst. So this is how bring forward to the future, mean to the present. These people do these studies.

1:14:55 How do we reach this demographic? How do we reach these women? How do we plan on their insecurities? You know, women, I'm going to say this, just I can speak this from the man's side of it. Products are sold to men different than women. And I find it disgusting the way they sell products to women, right? I mean, they would never approach a man the same way they would women when they're trying to sell his products. They usually say, man, you're great. Now you want to be better? It's like, get this, drink this beer, drive this car, right? Women, are you ugly? Are you fat? Look at your flat hair. Look at your no hair. Don't you hate your hair color? You know, don't you hate the way you look? Buy this makeup.

1:15:38 Oh, the makeup made your skin bad. Buy this cream. That cream dried your skin out. Buy this oil. And you think it may be crazy, but look at the level of expertise they use to sell you death, aka a cigarette. Well, what's interesting about now versus then, where they went to A.A. Brill and said, you know, and that's probably in your next clip, so I won't spoil it. And he said, okay, this is how you make it work. This is why it'll work. Today, that is tested on every individual, maybe 25, maybe 100 times a day with algorithmic programming.

1:16:21 Okay, did the person respond to this? Did they scroll past it? Did they tap it? Did they go in deeper? Okay, that works. Go back, add some more of that. I mean, that's completely how the algorithms work. So they can continuously target you as an individual. Yes. Everybody has their own little individual, Dr. A.A. Brill, basically. It says, how do we sell this to this person? Or anything in general? Sure. All right, so let's discuss this more on the back side of 15. So I went to Dr. Brill and I said, can you tell me what cigarettes mean to women?

1:17:04 And as quick as that, he said, cigarettes to women are torches of freedom that they use to dramatize their objection to the taboo against smoking by men. And then he added as an afterthought, and they titillate the erogenous zones of the lips. So I left and wondered what to do with that information.

1:17:45 And I decided we would get debutants to light torches of freedom in the Easter parade to protest man's inhumanity to women by the taboo against smoking. Within six weeks, smoking became an accepted pattern for women throughout the United States. Six weeks. I love this. And I believe that this thinking, and I was in advertising, public relations, all of this, that really started the mindset of how we control people.

1:18:27 I mean, I've met so many psychologists and psychiatrists in the advertising world, you would be blown away. And what is control? By another name, witchcraft. And I know people are going to say, oh, here you go to witchcrafts. Okay, call me crazy. crazy, but they use the Easter Day parade or Ishtar Tar Day Parade. There it is. Give women torches of freedom, which the Statue of Liberty represents Libertas, aka Ishtar. Now, for those who explain Ishtar for those who wouldn't know. That is Easter.

1:19:09 That's the mother goddess. That's the goddess of fertility who we really celebrate on Easter. That's where the eggs and bunnies come from. See, that's why I said this stuff goes right past our conscious, right through our subconscious. And six weeks later, smoking's a phenomenon. Isn't that crazy? And you think there's not any esoteric play in there? Come on. I will certainly, I think it was certainly seen as an incredible. But it probably said, man, that's witchcraft. Let's use it again. I think everyone's like, okay, whatever that is, it's working. Let's not get all spooky with it.

1:19:50 It's just control. Yeah. Okay. COVID of witches got together and said, how can we sell women this deadly product? They said, huh, let's conjure up something. Let's call them Torture to Freedom. Cool. Okay. All right. And that's just how it happens. And then it becomes a meme. And then now you 66, what was it, 1990s? 60, 70 years later, you have women dying of lung cancer. And then the spell, the spell would be the actual marketing words that were used for this. Torture to freedom. That's why I caught on. Right. So he gave them the idea. And then Errol Bernays manifested the idea. Because, okay, torches of freedom, what I do with that. He put the imagery to it.

1:20:35 Here was the direct messaging because they did basically Bernays called friends at Vogue magazine to get a list of the debutantes. And then he had his secretary, Bertha Hunt, sign and send a personalized telegram to each one. So there was a woman, which was by itself very novel at the time. And here's the message. In the interest of equality of the sexes and to fight another sex taboo, I and other young women will light another torch of freedom by smoking cigarettes while strolling on Fifth Avenue Easter Sunday.

1:21:17 Oh, yeah. Strollers? You say stroll? Yep, stroll to the poll. We are doing this to combat the silly prejudice that the cigarette is suitable for the home, the restaurant, the taxi cab, the theater lobby, but never, no, never for the sidewalk. Women smokers and their escorts will stroll from 48th Street to 54th Street on 5th Avenue between 1130 and 1 o'clock. And of course, it made front page news and the media did their job and was off to the races. That's correct. And the cigarette advertising soared. And the whole time, men were probably saying, I'm just speculating here. That's a disgusting habit. And if I could, I would kick it myself. So I want you doing it.

1:22:02 It was like, no, we want lung cancer too. You know what I'm saying? It's like, what? No, like, no, you don't want those pants, ladies. I'm telling you. My mom smoked when she was pregnant with me. Like I said, most of the women in my family smoked and they all hated it. I mean, it wasn't like an enjoyable. No, no, it was always, I'm going to, I have to have to kick this habit. I got to stop this smoking. Right. So the reason why I'm talking about the torches of freedom is and the memes, now we got to go back to the color purple. And we have to actually listen to a conversation and an interview with Margaret Avery.

1:22:41 She's the one that actually played the, is the one that actually played Shuke Avery and she's being interviewed by Margaret Avery. Sorry about that. And this is a very obscure interview I found, but I want you to listen to how big and important Color Purple was at that time and the messages that it pushed. We must do entertainment with responsibility. What people are willing to read comfortably in their own private space and what they can see on the screen comfortably are two different things.

1:23:17 And myself as a mother of an 11-year-old, I was just relieved when I found out that certain things would not be filmed. I wouldn't have, as a person, been comfortable. I don't think that it was necessary to explore everything. everything explicitly that was in the book. People got the message, and I think it was done with taste, and I'm real proud. And over, excuse me, and overall, Margaret, what would you like to say to black people?

1:23:55 Because still, some black people are saying that the film demeans blacks. So, what would you like them to understand? Oh, shall we get that? Let's hold it just a second. That's that Boulet phone, boy. It's like, hold on before you answer that. No, no, and that's in all seriousness. But I would want to cover before we get back to the Boulet phone. I got to get that ISO because I meant to get that. I knew it was something I was missing from the show. But let's just talk about reading, for instance. And this is why it's also important about the lady that wrote this article. She's an author. So, reading is a very intimate channel that

1:24:39 you read it and you create the world in your mind, right? This is a very good way to target black women of the two sexes on the black side, or the so-called black side. The women are the readers, you know, to sit down and read for leisure. So, a lot of these messages was pumped through books, the color purple being one of them. And a lot of these ideas, there was a massage and war before it was actually termed. This would be the epitome of it. And a lot of people felt like it was problematic. And it also pushed the boundaries on black sexuality as well. Because in the book, Suge Avery and Seely

1:25:24 had a sexual relationship. Now, that's why Bobby Wygant was saying she's glad that they didn't have to explore all that in the movie because she thought it would be too much. And she actually had reservations about doing the movie. Now, let's be honest here: who is the people behind the movie? Steven Spielberg. Yes, and Oprah. Right. And they even told this woman that she had to gain weight. And it's a very fascinating interview, how much she had to go through in getting prepared for this character. So, but then the question came up about the black people perception of the movie and the Boulevard ring.

1:26:09 I love that. Now, this was a print interview, right? That's why the sound is off. This is just her archive of all the people she's interviewed. Well, it's actually recorded, but I don't know if she was, it was print or not. But she's going to pick up the question. Well, we're going to start right with the Boulet phone ring, and then we're going to pick up on the question. So, the original question was: Can we hear the last 10 seconds? I want to get the full question in context. Yeah, of course, of course, we can. To black people, because still, some black people are saying that the film demeans blacks. So, what would you like them to understand?

1:26:53 Oh, shall we get the other one? Hello, this is Bob Boule. I got a little information for you before you answer that question. Okay, so the feeling that demeans black folks was when the Boulev phone rang, and they had to get it so we can go into 17. And over, excuse me. And overall, Margaret, what would you like to say to black people? Because still, some black people are saying that, you know, the film demeans blacks. So, what would you like them to understand? Oh, shall we get the second? Yeah, let's hold it just a second. Okay, I'll pick up my question again. Margaret, I know you must be aware that there are still some black people who feel uncomfortable with the color purple, feel that it demeans blacks, particularly black men.

1:27:39 Now, what would you like them to understand? The film was not a documentary. In order to represent a people, it must be all factual. And this was an entertaining piece taken from a fiction book. I do understand why the controversy, and that is because we as black people do not see our images often on film. Once we get the experience of having many images and positive, negative, such as our Anglo counterparts, then we will not

1:28:21 think of it as representative of us. You see, You're the Dragon was also a controversial issue, and I think it was for the same reasons because. when you see your image, so seldom you expect it to represent you. And a film cannot be entertaining and be burdened without responsibility. Okay. So you heard the question was changed after the Bulawa. Totally. It's like, nah, let's make this about black men, not black people. And people understood that this character, Mr.

1:29:03 was going to be a problem. And fast forward, she was talking about bra representation once we start to get more images of ourselves, more movies made. But in most archetypes, when it's a black, completely black movie, the black men aren't saving people. In very few cases, he's the problem. He's the bad guy. I mean, look at Tyler Perry. He's made a billion dollars off of this archetype. Format, this format. You know what I'm saying? It's really a formula and lack of a better word. So I just want to put that out there that these movies, these images, you think you're going to get better representation, but we still see our women, when I say our women, women in general, and black women specifically, are lead with sex, sex sales.

1:29:56 You know, you're not going to get a Y representation of our women, right? It's going to be one of three, right? You're going to either be Mammy, you're going to be, you know what I'm saying, some kind of sexual object, or you're going to be this difficult person. And I mean, if you look at the, what was the scandal? That's a perfect representation of that. It's just this focus on career, focus on myself kind of archetype. So I say all this to say that

1:30:36 just what you said about ESGs, it's a thing that I'm coin is called conspicuous consciousness. Right. This is what woke is. This is the best way to define woke. And do you know what conspicuous consumption is? Because we have to look at that term to understand conspicuous consciousness. For the most part, I think it is safe to say that we are all consumers. Unless you are the person that lives completely off the grid, away from society, and are completely self-sustaining, it is likely that you are a consumer.

1:31:15 We all use or purchase some goods or services at some point in time. It is up to us as individuals to decide what type of consumer we want to be. As I journey towards financial freedom, I continue to revisit this question in my mind. What type of consumer do I want to be? So what exactly is conspicuous consumption? Conspicuous consumption is the purchasing of luxury or expensive goods and services in an effort to show people how much you have or in an effort to display a certain type of wealth. The problem comes in because the majority of people who are conspicuous consumers are actually not wealthy.

1:31:56 Now, some of these conspicuous consumers may be high income earners. They bring in a good income. They make good money, but they are constantly spending that money in an effort to show people how much they have. So in essence, these types of conspicuous consumers are slaves to their job, to their paycheck, to those hours that they need to work in order to continue to make that money so that they can send it. Now, it is my belief that conspicuous consumers come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. But traditionally, you might have heard this before. The majority of conspicuous consumers are minorities. Now, I don't know whether you agree with this or not, and the data, I think it's inconsistent.

1:32:36 Well, conspicuous consumption, CC, it's interesting how Gucci has two C's in it. Yes. But conspicuous consumption is the buying things so other people can see them, right? So conspicuous consciousness, i.e. woke, is I'm doing this so I seem conscious, right? So I seem like I'm aware. I'm, I'm, you know, but it's for other people to see. And this is what you were explaining with the ESG. And I like it. I like this a lot better than Virtue Signal. I think this is much, much richer term. Much richer term. Because it's like, look at me.

1:33:18 Look how woke I am. Look at how I understand black people. It's not out of understanding black people. It's for your benefit. All right. It's like it's just a just another product to buy. It's just another way to make yourself elite. And these people come into our communities and so are on our side, our race. So where you're going to say, I know you had that word community, but it's really a consciousness, right? I mean, that's what we call what we refer to as communities to share consciousness. And they want to tap into that for their own personal gains.

1:33:58 You follow what I'm going to do. Yeah, no, yes, I am. And simultaneously, I'm reading about the guy who coined the term a sociologist, of course, Thorben Weibelin. Of course, this is where these terms come from. 1899, my brother. This is 100, 120 years ago. This is great. But that's what we're seeing. And on the reason why, like with our producers and what we do here ourselves, this is not for vanity, right? We come here to gain understanding from each other and then people sharing that by listening and supporting. But it's not to say, oh, I support Mo and Adam, right? Just like

1:34:41 to, you know, to like gain kudos. It's actually they're doing the work. So that's the counter to conspicuous consumption. It's actually trying to gain understanding with someone for your mutual benefit. But I have to, you know, after this show and for the next few weeks, I'm going to have to think about the overlap between value for value as we as we talk about it. And of course, I see it differently, but there's for sure there's stuff there's it's giving me some clarity on on the mechanism. I, you know, we just see it as here's a product.

1:35:17 We believe it has value. It's more of price discovery than anything. If you like it, just attach a value to us and let us know what that was and send it to us. And that's that's the value exchange. We're just not locking anybody in. And let me be clear in what I'm saying. And what I'm saying is some people might be like, oh, that's a black guy and a white guy going together. That shows progress. Let me throw some money at you. Did you actually find value in the conversation? And then the top is that we broach. And it's like, oh, I actually found value in that. And that's the difference, like conspicuous consumption. If you buy something at its price point, whatever you decide that to be, that's to the consumer, to be worth its value, then it's not conspicuous, right?

1:36:02 It's like it's a need or it's something that you're saying. But if you say, I know this is a poorly made pair of shoes, but because everybody else values it, I'm going to pay $200 for it. Right. So I guess that's very different. Yeah, that's a big difference right there. So I just want to outline that, you know, just so it's clear that. However, I want everyone to feel free to see this show as a $500 pair of Nikes. Just send us that. That'd be great. We are just some fancy Nikes here. That's where we are. All right. So speaking of which, I think this would be a good time to take a break and thank our producers.

1:57:24 Thank you very much for supporting MoFax with Adam Curry. All right, so we came out of with conspicuous consciousness. And what we have to look at is Harlem because Harlem in the 1920 was the ground zero of jazz music. New York was ground zero for flappers. And we know Harlem was famously known for the Black Harlem Renaissance. So we have to go and look back and see who was conspicuously consuming or conspicuously consuming consciousness at the time. And there's a. another meme called Miss Ann in the Black Community.

1:58:09 I'm delighted to welcome Carla Kaplan to the program. And her latest book, Miss Ann in Harlem, The White Women of the Black Renaissance, has just been published by HarperCollins. A lot's been written about the African-American artists, writers, entertainers, and intellectuals who burst onto the public scene during the Harlem Renaissance of the 1920s to the mid-30s. Also well documented are the white men who encouraged this outpouring of creativity and energy with their money and influence. But what about the white women who were so drawn to what was happening in Harlem that they risked the derision of their families to be a part of it?

1:58:48 What they brought to Harlem and what they gained from it is the subject of Carla Kaplan's book and of our discussion today. Welcome. Thank you. So why a book about the white women of the Harlem Renaissance? Well, the first answer, the simplest answer is it's an untold story. It was the last untold story really of the Harlem Renaissance and a story we didn't have at all. These were women who were, as you say, risking extraordinary derision, but also who were doing something that in their day was considered unthinkable, choosing blackness over whiteness in the 1920s. And for so long, that choice ended up in some ways making this an untold story.

1:59:30 So the first reason to tell the story is we needed it to fill out the rest of our history. Okay. So I love this show because only on Mo Facts with Adam Curry will you hear the genesis of Karen. Miss Ann has got to be the Karen of her day. Well, Karen and Miss Ann is a little different. Little different. Well, Miss Ann can end up in Karen. So let's just be clear. But Miss Ann is the steering hand behind the female steering hand behind black movements. Right. So these people came into Harlem.

2:00:14 We're going to go through, I think, like three of them. And we're going to explore what happened in Harlem and look forward and see who could possibly be the Miss Anne's now steering the pot in these conversations that you see with Megan Thee Stallion and Maxine Waters and Caitlin Greenwich. Who rubber stamped that? Who gave their approval? I mean, they're not moving autonomously. So I don't have an answer for that just yet. Maybe they outsource Miss Ann to Caitlin Greenwich. That could be a possibility that the best Miss Ann is a black Miss Anne.

2:00:55 Sure, sure. Because they can be very fly under the radar. So we have to go back and, like I said, 1920s was the origination of this, the youth movement or pushing change through youth. And one of it is Harlem. So we're going to go through these clips. So let's go ahead and get into them. Miss Ann II. Miss Ann, where does the term come from? So as far as we know, and I've done a lot of work trying to figure out where that term first came from, it seems to have been a term coined well before the Harlem Renaissance by black female southern domestic workers who were stuck in the kitchens

2:01:38 of white women employers for 12 hours a day, 14 hours a day, sometimes 17 and 19 hours a day, and could not afford to deride or disrespect those women to their faces. They were employers. But behind their back, they could refer to them categorically and dismiss them as miss Angels. Miss Ann. So it's the counterpart to Mr. Charlie and Mr. Eddie, which are also derisive terms for white folks. Okay. You chose about, well, there are a number of Miss Anns in our book, but you concentrated on maybe about a half dozen or so of them. The women are each fascinating in different ways, but was there something that they all had in common?

2:02:22 There were a number of things they all had in common. One of them was that every one of these women, and you're exactly right, that the six are very different. And in fact, I deliberately chose six who exemplify a range of roles white women played in the Black Harlem Renaissance so that readers could see women who were there with honorable intentions, who were there with dishonorable intentions, and pretty much everything in between. But every one of them shared an idea, very novel in the 1920s, that identity could be something other than biology. Whoa, whoa, okay. So, so I keep forgetting that you're from the future.

2:03:07 So, you saw into that clip before I played it. And yes, Miss Ann can be Karen and a perfect, I mean, yeah, Miss Ann could be Karen. A perfect example is that is Rachel Nichols and that whole thing going over there at ESPN. She surrounded herself around blackness and she was the queen bee. But then when it started to affect her and her pocket, she went straight Karen saying, you know, they're diversity hires. So it's, it's, it's the, as long as I'm comfortable with it, I'll allow you to be. But when it gets uncomfortable for me, then I'll, you know, I'll complain about it. And that's the problem with going woke because

2:03:52 eventually the noodle gun comes out, the cancel cannon hits you if you're not careful. Right, because it's a form of consumption. So just buy more and more and more. You know, how can I not, you never can be, your level of conspicuousness needs to go to, you know, something that's unachievable. So it's never enough. She had to be okay with losing her job. Now, what she said is what she said. But we're starting to see how these people, and she would consider herself a liberal. And all the things she back was liberal, but when it starts to affect her pocketbook, you see it come, you see a different reaction with her. Choosing blackness over whiteness, that is being, you know, being conspicuous conscious.

2:04:35 So I think we stopped at two. Let's go ahead and get into number three. And every one of them believed that they could, in essence, volunteer for blackness. Each of these white women was in Black Harlem or writing about Black Harlem in an effort, essentially, to say, sign me up. I want to be black too. This was an idea that was very pioneering in the 1920s. And they all shared it. They were all also, they were rule breakers. Absolutely. They were breaking the rule. They tended to lead with their passions. They were committed to fair play. And they want to escape from the routine of, I guess, white middle class or upper middle class womanhood and all the restrictions that.

2:05:24 And they also want it, we're looking for a sense of purpose, is my sense. And that's where the rub comes in. My existence is not an escape for you. You can't volunteer for blackness. Now, you could be an ally, but because the reason, if you're volunteering for it, you always can, you know, revert back. Hold on a second. Let's just look at it from another, from another angle. What if at the time the white woman's life was so stifling for her?

2:06:03 Because it wasn't like white women were all that much freer. Certainly, I mean, there was a lot of restrictions on women in the 1920s still. And to let loose, to just feel like, oh my God, I'm in something else. They found this in jazz, dance, roaring Harlem. That's not necessary. I wouldn't say that's necessarily. I mean, let me see how. I know, I know where you, I think. What you said is it's not okay to use blackness to let loose, but

2:06:43 people do, you know, go fishing to let loose. You know, it's like there's a whole people do a lot of things, certainly when it comes to alcohol and drugs. And if it's available somewhere, you know, that's why you see white crackheads with black crackheads. Right. I don't think that's necessarily taking advantage of blackness. What I'm saying about blackness is not enjoying the culture. That's not what I mean. What I'm saying is you actually trying to be black. Because you can never be that. I mean, you can never fully experience it. That's just like if I today wanted to transition to a woman, I can never ever experience the fullness of a woman.

2:07:23 I don't care how much I try, right? There's certain things that I will never be able to experience. And if I'm coming in a place, if that's how I truly feel, that's one thing. But as the late Carla Kaplan says, it was a form of escapism. So the analogy I would say is, just say you have women in your kitchen cooking and you're like, you know what? This housewife stuff, well, this living in this house is boring. Let me come in there and cook with you for a minute. Like you have the option to come in here and. cook. And when you get tired, you can go and sit back in your living room and drink a nice glass of cool lemonade. I'm here because of these are the circumstances, right?

2:08:08 And that's what I'm just saying. You can't, and I'll say this: you can't volunteer for another person's culture. You just can't, unless you completely embrace it. Now, for instance, say, if you want to, you see this right where maybe Native Americans will not that's just being disingenuous. You know, if someone's, oh, I like Rachel Dolezal, you know, that's just disingenuity. Well, hold on. Now, I see Rachel Dolezal is different. See, she fully embraced it. You know what I'm saying? She was living as a black woman, like, I mean, illegally. So, all the things that came with it. Whereas I was lives matter. Yeah, but she didn't live that through her formative years.

2:08:52 She decided that all of a sudden later in life. Right, but she accepted everything that came with it. You see what I'm saying? Like, I mean, she, and what I said, it's very, it's a very new, it's kind of like reverse passing. Uh, we're going to get into that, but I don't want to stretch it out. I guess I say this: let's get into the Miss Anns and how they operate it because I'm speaking from a place of knowing how this plays out. Okay, I got you. I want you to hear it, and then you'll see what I'm talking about. Fair enough. Being it and just experiencing it. It's a different Charlotte Osgood Mason, very different type of

2:09:35 Miss Ann. Tell us about her. And much older. This is in part a book about two generations of white women who became involved in Black Harlem: an older generation, which Charlotte Osgoode Mason in many ways exemplifies, and a younger generation. Now, Mason, like Schuyler, was involved in Black politics partly for her own reasons. Again, she wanted a wider social sphere. She wanted to make a difference. But Charlotte Osgoode Mason, she's one of the most complicated figures in this book. She believes, and I quote her now, that she is a black god. She also thought she was the world's psychic physician. Her husband had been a famous spiritualist, and she believes that certain people have to be very special people, can channel psychic vibrations.

2:10:22 And she believes she can do that so effectively that she can heal the world. She's also a primitivist. She believes that American white mainstream Western culture is played out, washed out, dried out, depleted. And the way it can be healed is to channel primitive energies, the energies of so-called childlike people, like Native American African. Exactly. So, what she sets out to do very deliberately, she is going to build a bridge from primitive Africa to washed out America, and the bridge is going to be through Black Harlem. Okay, that's different. That's very different.

2:11:05 It's not, okay, if you really wanted to live it, you will give up all your personal possessions and start out at the bottom, right? If you really want to live it, yeah, right. But it's no, I want to come in as a black God for you primitive people because I'm here to be your savior. Yeah, see, that's a total different thing. It's like I want to bring my privilege in and maintain a higher status in your culture. That's what my privilege benefits me. Is that also a little bit what record companies do these days? What about what? How so? A hip-hop record record company that, um, well, look, who buys uh

2:11:47 who buys Megan the Stallion records? It's white girls, right? So they want to be, they want the experience through the music. Yes, comes from a deep long history, kind of. Yeah, and it's like the AVE, the African-American vernacular. Um, same thing. It's, I can pick this up and put it down whenever I want to, right? It's not, it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's, it's by choice. Nobody wants to be on the bottom by choice. So that's where it would never align. And she comes in, and her perspective is black people are primitive, they're childlike.

2:12:32 Um, and she has to be their savior. The only thing that bothers me about this particular topic, sure. I have it myself. It's so when I'm talking to you, and you know, calling code, switching, whatever you want it to be. Um, I, I, I look, I talked to a divorce. Dvorak in a certain way. I talk to other, I talk to good old boys here a certain way and call it code switching, whatever. But it becomes complicated for me personally when you say you can't just pick it up and put it down whenever you want. So if I'm like, if I send you an emoji, that's, hey, man, that's 100. I'm, I literally do that to no one else. No, no, no, no, no. I think we're what I'm talking about is pick it up.

2:13:16 Let's like, say, for instance, just because I go to a Thai restaurant and enjoy Thai food doesn't make me part trying to participate in that culture. I put saying I enjoy what they provide to the, you know, saying, I don't want to get killed for this, but the melting pot of America, right? And this is what we kind of do. We exchange different things, right? Sure. You know, like white music. You know, if you listen to white music, that means you want to be white, right? That kind of thing. It's a difference when you try to embed yourself into a culture and say, okay, I know what's best for you all. It's like you going out now, you're saying, you know what? I know what's best for everyone, you know, in the black community, that kind of thing.

2:14:01 You come in a place of learning to say, okay, how can I understand? And that's like, see, first to understand, then to be understood. But these people came in with, I know how to fix their problems, and I'm bored where I'm at, so it's a win-win. Got it. You see, you see the difference? I mean, like, but just so you know, it's incredibly uncomfortable for me to be myself. Because I know if one of my stepdaughters caught me doing that with you, she'd go ape shit over it. But why? I mean, that's the thing with that. Yes, thank you. Why? Exactly. Just letting you know, I self-censor myself in these situations, which is

2:14:39 the power of the youth movement going back to why they start with the kids because the kids shame the parents into whatever the mass media thinks is deemed saying acceptable. Whatever they deem acceptable, the children set that standard now. It's complete reverse world. Where the parents usually set what the standard is for the kids, it's the completely opposite. And I would wager that's because the kids are much more savvy. The parents used to control the television. The kids control the internet. Right. For now. Yeah, for now, of course. For now. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, just like with television, the kids had the free time to watch television. But once, you know, if it got figured out, it's like, hey, we need to take control of this. Then adults come in the room.

2:15:23 Yeah. So, I mean, it's just that it's the maturation process. And I'm not saying all Miss Ann's are bad or people that try to come in the community help because I want to talk about, we're going to go back to show 52 and talk about Mary Ann Williamson and how she talked about reparations on the debate stage. This is part of the dark underbelly of American society. The racism, the bigotry, and the entire conversation that we're having here tonight. If you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I'm afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days.

2:16:00 And the underlying cause has to do with deep, deep, deep realms of racial injustice, both in our criminal justice system and in our economic system. And the Democratic Party should be on the side of reparations for slavery for this very reason. You have been at the forefront of the discussion of reparation. We're almost out of time. Can you just give me a two seconds? I want to make America. And a country is like an individual. You can't have the future you want until you clean up the past. So, and that's my point here. We're going to humanize these people. We never dehumanize people to say everything they did was bad. Just like Mary Ann Williamson, I think she was coming from a place of good nature.

2:16:45 Now, the thing is, I don't think that people fully understand what they're, I hate to see you the word dabbling, but what they're dealing with, you know, when you start to improperly try to unpack these, this complex problem, complex situation we call race. You know, it's just not as simple as going down and marching on Saturday. No, it's just people. Yeah, a BLM sign is not going to fix it overnight. But people think, well, conspicuously, I've done my part or out of good faith, they can say, I've done my part.

2:17:27 But it's no, this, if you really want, if you, I'm, you have the option not to care. I'm not saying people have to care, but if you're gonna care, actually come in with understanding and being an ally. And you hear these words thrown around. around, but a lot of people don't believe in what they're doing. You feel what I'm saying? Well, yes, of course I do. And at 56, I look back. I would say, since I turned 50 for sure, I look at a lot of stuff. I'm like, oh my God, I was so stupid.

2:18:04 What an idiot. And a lot of people will grow up, will mature, and have to come to terms with what they were a part of, and they will probably feel pretty dumb. We all do it. That's just human nature to look back and say, man, if I knew what I knew then now. But what we have to understand is where this misinformation comes from. And a lot of it comes from outside sources in our life. And that's the whole point I'm trying to point out here. And I just want to show next, just continuing on with Mary Ann Williamson, is when you dabble into things, you may unconsciously unlock real pain.

2:18:44 Oh, yeah. I love this clip. I know what's coming. Right. 24. We see it today, and we even see it to some extent in our own country, very dangerously so, is when hatred becomes a social and political force. We must make love a social and political force, and that has to start with us. So, for those of you who would like to participate in this, I'm going to now lead us in an apology from white Americans to African Americans on behalf of our country, to you and to your ancestors and to all of your people. So, to the African Americans in the room who would wish and be willing to participate in this, please stand up.

2:19:30 And now, I'd like to ask white Americans who are sitting near you to please stand up. And if the African-American citizen would be willing to allow a white American who wishes to apologize to you and take part in this to hold your hands, please accept my apology this night. It is for you and for your grandparents and their grandparents before them and their grandparents before them. I want a black magical. What if someone whispered to you in there?

2:20:44 Listen to that again. I'm glad. That's why I love you, Adam. I heard something like black magic or something. No, listen again. Because I wanted to bring it up, but I'm glad you caught it. Let's listen to you. Let's listen. I want a black magical. Asked the black man to go. I couldn't. I want a black man to go over. And that is the epitome of what I'm saying. Y'all unlock all this pain, all this hurt, and then leave it for us to clean up. It was a white woman who was crying who was from the city. Yes, no, it was a black woman

2:21:26 crying. So let me just plant the picture. So you have a black woman standing in the center and all these white people like kind of putting hands around her. You know what I'm saying? Like, that is some powerful shit, man. You have no idea what can happen when you channel energy like that. That's my point. Witchcraft. Hey, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Well, my point is with this clip: you open that door to generation after generation after generation of pain. And it's like, oh, well, we're the black man. Get a black man to tell you. There's a black man over there. Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But this is what it's the microcosm of what the media is doing with this massage noir, this pitting black men and black women against each other.

2:22:15 And they truly think they're helping. I don't think there's some bad actors. There's some good actors. And then some in the middle are just like, well, I think it's going to help. I mean, let's open that door. And then when it's two gets too hairy, what's behind that door, it's like, well, black man, because you don't want you don't want to send a white man over because she might be triggered. You know what I'm saying? saying? And great case of point. I don't want to, I don't want to belabor the point, but exactly. That's exactly my point. And you had you open all these doors and these channels for people.

2:22:53 I think Mary Ann Williamson was coming from a good place. Some people might disagree. Of course, I mean, it could be a win-win for her, you know, that she brings up these real topics that's going on. But when you open that door, are you ready? Are you really ready for that repressed pain and anguish and emotion that comes with it? Well, and you are. I got to give you credit because you're still here after 63 episodes. You're like, you didn't open the door. Let me, well, you know, let me do.

2:23:34 You know, you actually show up and it's going to be like Malcolm said, I'm going to be offended. You're going to be offended. But guess what? We're going to keep pushing through. And that's actually doing the work of being uncomfortable. Yes. Well, I love my country. Mutually. I mean, mutually. And sometimes I'll uncomfort himself. But it's not just here coming like the person said in that white fragility. Like, you're, I come here for three hours, four hours, and say, you're bad, Adam. And this is why you're bad, Adam. This is why you're bad. You're saying it's like, okay. Oh, yeah, but I don't, yeah, exactly. Well, I come here because I love my country. I want to understand it better because I love my country. I love you. And I want to make it better if I can.

2:24:18 But I can't do anything if I don't understand. And what they should have done was like, okay, let a white person, a black person sit down and have a real conversation. Instead of going this psychic tapping to the energy, man, that I mean, that's very dangerous. And that, I mean, I'm saying that from even a therapy standpoint. You just can't jump into somebody and say, hey, go to your darkest place. You know, in therapy. So I'm just okay. So with hands-on, with hands-on. That can be really, I mean, I've done some therapy. It can be really intense. Right. So I guess we go back to me.

2:24:57 I just want to paint the picture of a modern day Ms. Ann and how that looks and humanize her. Like, we, I mean, we like Mary Ann Williamson. We're saying she was on the show. We had her on the show. I was for a while there. I was a proponent of her. Right. Because what she's saying is it is some dark energy behind this, and there's a lot of pain behind this. It's very true. But you just can't go in and kick and open doors unless you're ready. She was a little bold on that one. It's like, okay. Yeah. And by the way, I think that hurt her presidential run severely. It did. And yeah, it did. And well, and that goes to show you that academia looks at her like a kook.

2:25:41 See, you think many different ways. While in reality, just by speaking spirituality and religion, we don't have to go down the road of what she's what she's doing here, is much closer to black America than white America in many aspects. That's correct. And let's get back with Mrs. Ann and see these same people like Charlotte Osgood and Mason. And now we talk more about what she believed. She is one of the most important philanthropists of the Harlem Renaissance, one of the most important white underwriters of black culture. But she does this because she's going to heal modernity by channeling black energy.

2:26:25 So she comes in with a very set agenda. On the other hand, she has an enormous pocketbook. This woman has virtually unlimited funds and she has an incredible eye for genius. And she supports people like Zora Neil Hurston, Langston Hughes. Did she also support financially Elaine Locke? She almost supported Elaine Locke. He was the one who stays with her right up basically until her death. How about County Cullen? Was he a beneficiary? County Cullen was not a particular beneficiary, although she would have liked him to be. She went after all of the geniuses of the Harlem Renaissance and she recognized their genius. This is enormously meaningful to them.

2:27:03 So Zora Neale Hurston and Langston Hughes and Elaine Locke in particular were able to do much of the cultural work they did because of her language. Large ass, of course. That's right. But while she was very generous, she was also monstrous. She was demanding critical controlling of her proteges, who they called her godmother. Was that the term? They called her godmother and she insisted on being called godmother by them, but also by the white proteges she was supporting. fairy godmother? Like Godmother Godmother. But this is my point. If you're coming in to say, okay, are you here to give these people an amplifier to their message?

2:27:47 Are you here to control and dictate their message? Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I just want to point that out that very few people give their black understudy creative control. You see it with record labels. That's why, and it's a phenomenon and rap me, just take a quick aside. When like artists first come out, their mixtapes and things be really good. But once they get signed and you have to sit in that room where you have 12 people that are not tapped into the culture deciding what songs go on the album, they flop. Because it's control. It's like, oh, this would be great. This is a catchy tune. You know, that kind of thing.

2:28:30 But that's just a quick aside. So we see the controlling nature of Mrs. Ann, or Miss Ann, excuse me. We're going to continue on with another Miss Ann, Fanny Hearst. Tell us about Fanny Hearst. My least favorite. Fanny Hearst is the character in this book who most exemplifies for me a white woman who comes into Harlem really for her own advantage and truly for her own purposes. So she is there principally to write Imitation of Life, which is, I think most people know as a movie rather than as a novel.

2:29:08 And she's there largely because of her friendship with Zora Neale Hurston. Always one of the most uneven friendships in American interracial literary history. Really? Yeah, it was always a friendship in which Zora Neale Hurston called her Miss Hearst lifelong, and Fanny always called her Zora. And Fanny Hearst was very patronizing. And her idea for Imitation of Life was given to her by Zora Neale Hurston on a road trip. And Hearst is sitting in the back seat while Hurston drives the entire time. She sits in the back seat like something out of Driving Miss Daisy, right? But it's Driving Miss Hearst. And the book was a blockbuster. Yeah. Blockbuster. But it contained a lot of stereotypes and a lot of

2:29:53 black dialect. And her friends in Harlem felt betrayed by the book. Well, now it was a blockbuster for white readers. Almost everything Fanny Hearst did was a blockbuster. I mean, in terms of sales, we have to remember Fanny Hearst was the Stephen King of her day. She was the best-selling author of her time. So Fanny Hearst comes in with Zora Neale Hurston. Let me ask you a question. Zora Neil Hurston. Before you launch into that. Now, did you already know about Fanny Hearst? Is this something you've known about for years? Or is this part of the rabbit hole you know? This is when I start rabbit hole. All of this is rabbit hole. I mean, I knew of it's you always know about outside money behind these movements.

2:30:36 I knew about Elaine Locke, but when I started digging back more into Elaine Locke, I mean, this is probably a year topic I kind of earmarked to say who was behind him. And this gives me a perfect opportunity and backdrop to discuss this to say the same way Megan Thee Stallion is being steered, the same way is back then they were being steered the same way. Yes, and Fanny had very close ties with Eleanor Roosevelt. So she was high, high Illuminati

2:31:17 white supremacy. And then on the other side, Zora Neale Hurston was very into the hoodoo and voodoo stuff. So just to lay that out there. But it's one point I want to point out. Zora Neale Hurston gave Fanny Hearst the idea for Imitations of Life. And Imitations of Life, well, let's just get into the trailer and we'll discuss it more after the clip. I'm white. White. Starring Lana Turner as the great stage star Laura Merritt. The men in her life.

2:32:00 John Gavin. Dan O'Hurliheath. Robert Alda. If the Dramatist Club wants to eat and sleep with you, you eat and sleep with them. It's disgusting. It pays off. Her daughter, Sandra Dean, Susan Coner, who was born to be hurt. I don't want to have to come through back doors or feel lower than other people or apologize for my mother's color. She can't help her color. But I can. Juanita Moore. Hers was the shame and the pain. There, Jane Johnson, you put your clothes on and get out of this place. And the incomparable Mahalia Jackson.

2:32:48 I'm not asking you not to go down there, Laura. I'm telling you. What makes you think you have that right? Because I love you. Isn't that enough? No, Steve, I'm sorry. All the kids talking behind my back. Is it true? No, are you black? And I'm as white as young. I'd like to hold you in my arms once more. Like you were still my baby. All right. So this clip made me really miss my mom because she was such a movie buff and she would always talk about Lana Turner and Sandra D.

2:33:48 And I am sure she would have had seen this movie and would have she probably would have said it was the precursor to the Switch movies like big You know like big or where what are the other ones where you where you swap places with someone in some incredulous way I know you're talking I'm familiar with the you wake up your parent or you know yeah exactly exactly because this was about passing correct correct and it was a little bit more than that so this that was the trailer from the 1959 movie the original movie was made in 1934 off of fanny uh hearst's book uh so what we're gonna do now is go back from the tmc network they did a breakdown on the movie just to break down the characters before we do that be is the white woman

2:34:40 delilah is the black woman which delila itself is a funny name to use uh considering the you know the implications with samson and taking the man down but i digress then you have jesse as the black uh white daughter and uh piola as the black daughter that can easily pass for white so just to set that up let's go and get into 28 imitation of life ended up having just this extraordinary impact on the african-american community because it was really the one hollywood film of the depression era that suggested there was such a thing as a contemporary race problem in america i'm not black i'm not

2:35:24 black i won't be black tells the story of two women a black woman and a white woman yeah good morning each is without a husband each has a young daughter to raise at one point in the movie the black woman is preparing breakfast for the white woman the white woman's so impressed with her pancakes i've never tasted anything so good in all my life how do you make them it's a secret and it's going to die with the lila she gives the recipe to the white woman the white woman eventually markets a mix based on that recipe and then in one sequence that today is unbelievable to us the white woman offers the black woman a 20

2:36:08 interest in the company well of course this is very kind of the white woman uh particularly since without the black woman there would have been no company whatsoever yeah here are the papers for you to sign but if i sign them then what then you'll have a 20 interest in the aunt delila corporation you'll be rich heartache comes to the two women in imitation of life because of their daughters and for the black woman the great heartache comes when her daughter decides to cross the color line and pass for white wow did she say aunt delilah yeah delila is the black woman's name bro came up with the uh right uh recipe and it's funny in a sequence yeah the pancake sequence she's like no i'm gonna say that's my secret and then instantaneously she tells her

2:36:56 she whispers in her ear yeah the secret that she says gonna die with her wow she the uh b takes the pancake mix creates um successful product out of her recipe and then gives her 20 yeah well i'm not sure that's a good math but anyway um but then the guy says that's unbelievable but but I don't know if he's being sarcastic and he also says kind. So I don't know if he's being sarcastic in saying that maybe she should have got more or is it unbelievable that she gave her anything.

2:37:36 I mean, it's very mass how he said that. I've listened to the clip a hundred, not a hundred times, but at least 10 times. And I can't quite pick up saying this. And just so we have a full, this is what we do, they don't do anywhere else. There's a term in the black community. It's called that's mighty white of you. So it's used in between us to say if somebody does something for you that they should do, but they try to make a big deal out of it. Well, you say that's mighty white of you. Just for disclosure. You know what I'm saying? This is what happened. So say, for instance, okay, say I'll borrow your car, right?

2:38:20 And I'll be like, hey, out of my bargain car and I'll put some gas in it. I'll be like, that's mighty white of you. You know what I'm saying? Because you're supposed to put gas in people's car. You know what I'm saying? If you borrow it. But I mean, just to give you some, I think that's what he was saying when he said that, when he was being tongue-in-cheek about that's kind or unbelievable. He was saying that in a roundabout way, like, you should, it's her recipe. You should give her a cut or you're saying at least a half a cut. So I just want to, I just want to lay that out. You know, that it's not only about the passing, the passing is a small portion of the movie. The bigger portion is the business relationship between B and Delia.

2:39:03 Right. Go ahead. No, I'm just, I'm just still processing the mighty white. That's actually new to me. It's like, basically. No, I understand. No, I understand it. I understand it. I just hadn't heard it. I've heard white people, I've heard in New York in the late 80s, white people go, that's mighty white of you. What did that mean? What did it mean? Oh, it's exactly what you just said. But you just said, you know, this is how we talk. And we say that's mighty white of you. I didn't know that that was still going on. It makes sense. I don't know if people still use it. I mean, just my generation, older generations would use it to say, like, you know.

2:39:47 Simultaneously, I was trying to think if we have something where we'd say something equivalent. I don't think, I don't believe it's there. I don't think so either. But I can say it's just the same thing. Like, Miss Ann wants to be patted on her back. Oh, sure. The right thing. No, I don't want to detract from the flow. I'm just stopping because I'm like, huh, I didn't know that. No, I'm saying that for people that made the get so they fully understand how he sang it analyzing the movie. And I think that's what he wanted to say without actually saying that term. He said it in a roundabout way.

2:40:24 I just want to stop you there for one second, Mo. Anybody who is listening to this, please show me where the Bruce Springsteen Barack Obama podcast goes down deep like this. Please show me that. If you don't feel like it, you can just boost us. If you don't feel like it, then there's a boost. It is, that's superficial. I appreciate you so much, Mo. This is great. So let's just get into 29. The director, John Stahl, was determined to find a white-looking black actress to play this light-skinned young black woman. They turned their eyes to New York City, and that's where they saw Freddie Washington. And Freddie Washington was known as the girl with the boy's name.

2:41:08 The black girl with the green eyes. The black girl who looked white. Early in her career, she had been urged to pass for white, that she would have a chance at a big career, and she refused. She said, in essence, she could never be anything other than what she was. Freddie Washington told me that the one line in Imitation of Life that she hated was the line when she said that she wanted to be white. What's my baby want? I want to be white. Like I know.

2:41:48 And Freddie Washington said that the character she felt didn't want to be white for the sake of whiteness. She wanted to be white to have the same chances that everybody else in that house was going to have. On the one hand, the black audience really did pick up on the thing that she wanted white opportunities. And that they could understand and connect to. to. But the audience could not accept her rejection of her mother. And in essence, her rejection of her culture. Oh, very. This is Oprah narrating, right?

2:42:31 No. That sounds like Oprah. That sounds like Oprah. Whoever that guy is, he's got a career sounding like Oprah. But this is the point where I was saying about Miss Ann and why it's like if you heard like the black audience was, how can you give up owning your mother? Right. Right? Like, that's a real, like, how can you give up your culture and your color? That's a real, that's a tall order. So when we see people volunteering for blackness and like the Miss Anns, they're looked at the same way, but just saying the opposite way.

2:43:10 Like, how can you give up whiteness or your family? I mean, that's why it's a built-in distrust when you have people dealing like this. It's like, hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're going to turn on your own family? And that's where the term race trader comes in at. You see what I'm saying? It's like, bro, like, even though you, even though it's right, it's you turn on your own family, then I think I'm underneath your family, right? So you could easily turn on me. So that's why it's this weird, you know what I'm saying? It's this weird relationship when you talk about, and we all know race doesn't exist in the form of actually being a real thing.

2:43:52 It's a sense of legality. And that's where white versus whiteness comes in. People get degrees because they want to experience whiteness, not be white. You see what I'm saying? And what I mean by white is we talked about this on, I think, nocebo effect. We wear masks because we want to, you know, fit in and not be seen as political, right? It's like, you know, not wearing a mask has a certain political connotation to it, right? And it's just like, I just want to go out to the store and not be looked at or funny. So we put the mask on.

2:44:35 You understand what I'm saying? Whiteness is the same way. I think I told you about my experience going to Whole Foods a couple months ago and deciding I'm tired of it. I'm going in without a mask. Right. Did I talk to you? Did I talk to you about this? I think we talked about it. This example, but I think we talked about another experience. Go ahead. Oh, well, so just now, you know, because I was like, I'm going to walk in. Y'all see what happens. I got a mask in my back pocket. So I can always, you know, be compliant if I have to. But the whole ride, 20-minute ride, I was thinking about it, like, how, will people look at me strange?

2:45:15 And I thought this may be the closest I could ever come to feeling how Mo sometimes may have felt or may still feel in certain situations. Yeah, and that's, that's my point. Is when you have to think about it, that's it. That's it. That's all that it is. That's working right there. No, I totally agree. And it was the first time that I really recognized like, oh, this is probably close to kind of what it feels like, not in an actual situation, but just having to think about it on your way to a certain situation. And that mask in your back pocket with a PhD. Exactly. That's why I called it out. That's how you call it. I have no problem.

2:45:57 I was a good. I was a good black now. You see what I'm saying? That's that mask. That's that, you know. Yes. Yes. And it shouldn't have to be that way, but it is that way if you prescribe to the racial narrative. Now, what I do is I move about freely. You know, you get to the, I'm sure you got to the point now where it's like, I don't give a rat's ass if I wear a mask or not. You know what I'm saying? And then somebody says something to me and we had to deal with it. I'm sure you got to that point now, right? Well, it was, it was after, it was during that first experience when no one looked at me, no one cared, no stink eye.

2:46:37 I was very surprised. There was only one other person not wearing a mask. Once I had gone through that experience and I had it for my feeling, a good experience like, okay, now I don't care anymore. Now, imagine that being hard baked in for all your life. This is why I bring it up for you. Of course, of course. That's why I bring it up. I say it for my, for my fellow, fellow white people. That was a very interesting experience for me. So now you can understand how seductive passing is. And just a couple of things is when we just go back. Zora Neale Hurston was fair skinned.

2:47:14 Now she wasn't fair. fair enough to pass, which I think has to be the most tortured way to be because you'll never be accepted fully because you'll be assumed that you have privilege because you're light-skinned, and you'll never be accepted in whiteness, but you're so close. So, I think that's part of where this movie came from because she gave the story to Fanny Hearst. And the other part is with the pancake recipe. Yeah, she's like, Fanny, I gave you this story, and I'm sure she, you see, this is art playing out, playing its way out on the screen, real life playing its way out on the screen, art the relationship between Zora Neil Hurston and Fanny Hearst. Because, like, are you just gonna take my pancake recipe and give me 20%?

2:47:55 If she got that, you see what? Like, I gave you the recipe. Uh, I just don't have the infrastructure to you know to make it a company. All right, so let's be real here, Mo, for a second. Yes, sure. So, when we first started doing this podcast, how long did it take before you finally how many episodes before you said, Okay, Curry's on the up and up, he's not gonna try and control the content or any of that day one when you didn't have it, give me any expectations? The company like, hey, we're just gonna sit down and talk okay, all right. No, seriously, I mean, seriously, because there was no, and I mean, just for full clarity, I mean, we have a gentleman's agreement that we split whatever we make, yep, you know, and that's that that's what it is.

2:48:39 Uh, and it was, but see, if you lay it out up front and you say, if if uh Bay would be B would have said to Delilah, you know what, this pancake uh recipe, I could do something with it. You know, how you feel about 20%, you know, of the business. If Delilah signs it, I have no problem with it, right? But it came after the fact after the fact. It's like now that you have it going rolling, it's like, oh, now we're going to talk numbers. So, I mean, just we're breaking the fourth wall again, but I'm just saying, this is it's very, it's a very fluid situation when you talk about race because all these things are baked in. You see all the artists that die broke, you see all the athletes that die broke, and you wonder, like, how did this happen?

2:49:25 Um, or you see the black people taking the heat and their miss and behind them uh live unscathed. Like, you didn't hear anything about Fanny Hearst, you know what I mean? No, no, no, no, right. If it goes left, she just gets go back and live living her ordinary life. So, I just wanted to say that one more thing, just one quick quick aside. Um, the actress, uh, Freddie Washington, this is why representation is important and why the conversation between ADOS actors and non-ADOS actors playing black roles. You had to have somebody be able to internalize what it says to say, I want to be white, because that only a person experienced that or had the option could,

2:50:10 I hate this lack of better word, channel that real feeling and bring it across on screen. So, I just want to make that quick point as well. Sure, uh, but moving on, number 30. On the one hand, the black audience really did pick up on the thing that she wanted: white opportunities, and that they could understand and connect to. But the audience could not accept her rejection of her mother and, in essence, her rejection of her culture. I'm your mommy, boy, that's ridiculous. I never saw you before in my life.

2:50:52 What's the meaning of this? This woman doesn't know what she's talking about. Do I look like her daughter? There's a great sequence. It's at the end of a party that Claudette Colbert, the white woman, has given, and now she's made all this money off this pancake recipe. And at the end of the party, she and Delilah, played by Louise Beavers, they're talking, and Delilah is still subservient. And at the end of the evening, they say goodnight to each other. And as they go to their separate quarters, we see this beautiful home that really Louise Beavers pancake recipe is built.

2:51:33 We see Claudette Colbert ascend up the steps, and Louise Beavers descends downstairs. And it's visually just striking that John Stahl has just put it there. So, this is even after she's become successful, she owns 20% share in the business. She still lives with this white woman, B, in the basement, not having her own dwelling. And she plays in a submissive role to her because in the scene, she kicks her feet up on the couch, and Delilah. Delilah's rubbing her feet. Now, these are two rich women,

2:52:15 right? So, I'm just saying that you see the same thing now: that a lot of times people don't want to go out on their own and build their own thing, they want to live in the basement of other people's things. Well, yeah, so that's a mental prison. That's a mental prison. Lots of people are in most people, are in that probably. Most people are in it, yes. And that's the thing: you would think they would be sisters. And like I said, I'm extrapolating a lot of stuff here or you know, um, from these small clips. But when you look at it, it's like, okay, why is she living in a house with her still? Yeah, because it's comfortable, it's comfortable. You see, you see what I'm saying?

2:52:59 It's like, I don't want to go out on my own, I want to live under this. And this is why you get the Opras and all the other, you know, saying people that deal with these big white corporate media companies. It's like, why don't you go out on your own and create your own thing? It's like, well, it's comfortable here. No, I'd rather just have my 20%. And this phenomenon somebody mentioned in the notes with Kwame Brown. And he's bringing up this thing: mama's cooking and calling out these people that actually put the battery in the backs of many bullet members. Let's call it what it is. He calls it the go-along and get along game, but we've been calling the Boulet. And it's basically you have a nice room in their house.

2:53:46 Yeah. We need to be building our own houses. Now we can do business with whoever, but you have to have your autonomy. You see what I'm saying? But this is hundreds of years of trauma that has to be broken. Right. But that's why we don't, we gotta rover on Mars. So, I mean, I think we could do it. Even the Chinese got a rover on Mars, people. Let's get it together. Yeah, so I'm just, I'm just saying, like, I think it can be done. We do it here every episode. That's just a great one to use on the kids, too. Listen, there's a rover on Mars. You can do those chores. Right. I don't see why people find things so hard.

2:54:27 But let's go to 31. Piola, you're back. Yes, Mother. And I want to tell you how sorry I am for what I did to you. Oh, that's all right. Come. Come, baby, and sit down. It don't feel like you're really here standing so far. Mother, I've done everything you wanted me to. I went to that school and tried to be happy there to please you. But I just couldn't bear it. I couldn't. I had to get away. I understand, baby. We're going to forget all about it now. It's all right. But it isn't all right, Mother.

2:55:10 I want to talk to you. I'll go upstairs, Delilah. No, Miss B. You stay, please. I want you to hear, too. What's my little baby got on her mind? I want to go away. Go away? Go where Piola. I mean, by that, I mean, I want to go away. And you mustn't see me or own me or claim me or anything. I mean, even if you pass me on the street, you'll have to pass me by. Oh, no, Piola. Oh, I know it's terrible to me, Miss B.

2:55:56 But you don't know what it is to look white and be black. You don't know. I can't go on this way any longer. I can't give up a baby. I bore you. I nursed you. I love you. I love you more than you can guess. You can't ask your mammy to do this. You've got to promise me, Mother. I'm your mammy, child. I ain't no white mother. It's too much to ask of me. I ain't got the spiritual strength to beat it. I can't hang on no clothes. I got the strength. You can't ask me to unborn my own child.

2:56:43 I think I need a little context around that one. Okay, so what's happening is Delilah's daughter. Let me lay out the character, I mean, the characters again. So Delilah's daughter, Piola, she looks white because her father is very light-skinned. So she grows up. living with in the house with B and Delilah and Jesse, the white girl. And so long she's living in this white house and looks white. She eventually just wants to shed her blackness. It's like it's not shed her mask, right?

2:57:22 It's like, I don't want to wear this mask anymore. Where she wants to actually wear the mask so she can not be bothered. Let me follow the metaphor. So that's what she's asking her mother: like, don't, if you see me walking down the street, keep on going. Don't acknowledge me. You got to let me go so I can be free. Right. And that's why the audience had a real problem with accepting this movie in the 1934 iteration, which 25 years later was made again. So they showed you these things. They're very powerful. That's why they keep moving and keep making them. Excuse me. So her mother's saying, I can't give you up. You know what I'm saying? You're my child. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So this just goes to show you when you build up things in other people's

2:58:06 when you let other people set the value. This is bound to happen, right? Your children are going to try to go away from it. And what the way I tie this in is when you go back to Mama Rosie. She wanted her kids to go out to school, but when you go out to school, you learn new ideas and you lose appreciation for the old ideas. Does that make it? Okay, I just want to make sure I mean because it's kind of loopy. So I just wanted to make sure everybody else is following along as well. That it's a double-edged sword when you, you know, saying when you validate yourself by whiteness or you validate yourself by, and it's not even about white, we're not talking about color here. We're talking about the expectations of the mass

2:58:51 agenda. The one world, I mean, which we call white supremacy, one world government. It's like, this is what, this is what is acceptable, wearing a mask, taking the jab, seat, critical race theory, all these things. This is this is what's acceptable. And if you don't subscribe to it, then you're off your reservation. You out. Yep. Right. So, I mean, but when you do that, it's always going to come back and bite you in the butt eventually. And Delilah, she loves staying with B and she had her own money. You know what I'm saying? She was a part owner in a very successful company, but she never moved her out of her house.

2:59:29 And now it comes back home to Roost because your own child doesn't want to be what you identify as because she's lived in this other reality. And she has the ability to, you know, saying take part in it. Got it. Same thing with education. That's why I'm telling education when these people get these degrees, they think they can operate in whiteness because they had their freedom papers. Yeah. But along with it, but along with it comes a whole bunch of responsibility of towing all the rest of the lines that had to be told. It's messed up, man. Yeah, it's a, it's a mind, but I always say it starts with us.

3:00:11 It starts. Oh, yeah. No, this is what I appreciate so much. It's like, and a lot of it's already here with us. Right. So what we're going to do now is just for the sake of time, I think 32 is kind of redundant. So 33, we're going to get into okay, so this is this is the hot button issue right here. Uh, this is where we might get canceled. All right. Cancel Cannon out. Thank you. Uh, an appropriate soul for the cancel cannon. Um, women want to be worshiped, and we see this in modern, even modern art.

3:00:48 Uh, this goes back to the uh, Miss Ann's want to be called godmother and their gods, and you know, uh, feminists, you know, they're the guy, you know, the mother goddess and these kind of things. You see it in movies like the help, right? The black women are following along behind the white women. You saw it with Game of Thrones with Khaleesi. Uh, I think her name was Daenerys Targaryen. She was the great liberator, the mother dragon, right? The mother of dragons, and she was liberating all the brown people, this blonde, pale white woman. You know what I'm saying? These things play out, but what they do is they can convince women, especially black women, that they are God themselves.

3:01:30 Now, that may sound crazy to you, Adam, and they're meant to be worshiped. And this is that appreciation. This is the whole worship thing that we see going on. It's just not enough to appreciate women. You have to bow down to them. And this thing has been festering on our side for a very long time. And appropriate soul, this is Cannon's class, Nick Cannon. The black woman is God, and he's talking to Godfrey. White scientists have been digging up bones out of Africa. Africa, getting upset, going another boom, and it's traced to the black woman. Which are the most disrespected on the planet?

3:02:10 Not disrespecting any other woman. Women, you're all women matter. You all matter. You all give birth. But you all, other than black women, are all put on pedestals. Black women need to be up there too. They're not being oversexualized and disrespected too much. I always say they're black. Yeah, I say the black woman is God. And when you think about the humility and what that comes from, when you think about the origin of the motherland and where we all come from, at some point, to put yourself in that god-like pasture, you have to diss the God and what you come from. When you disrespect a woman, you annihilate the culture in which they come from. That's the truth. That's a fact. And it's like, you can't say you love your culture and then disrespect the women of that.

3:02:53 You damn right. Okay. Weigh in on this, Mr. Moe. Take it away. Okay, so all this is based out of the out of Africa theory. I'm sure you're aware of that, right? That the first people were black people. And this is where that primitive narrative comes from: that we're the original, but we're not the best. You know, we're, I mean, that's most brown people. That's how I thought of. That's, I'm just going by the Miss Ann conversation, how they're primitive people. Native Americans seen the same way, black people, you know, those kind of things. So what they say is, so since Africa is the cradle civilization, the black woman must be the mother civilization, which I have no beef with that.

3:03:35 If you want to believe the out of Africa theory, but the problem with out of Africa theory, just as a side note, it's probably one of the most racist theories ever. Because what you're saying is people in Africa were created. They stayed there while the rest of the people made it all the way around the world, came through Europe, Asia, down to Baron Strait, and came to America, which would be the Native Americans, all before black people could make it off the west coast of Africa. I don't understand how that works. We had to hitch a ride to America. Everybody was on the train, but you couldn't make it on. What's up with that? You tell me.

3:04:16 I mean, like, okay, West Coast of Africa to the East Coast of America is not that far when you think about you saying everybody else trekked the globe and was able to evolve. And, you know, now you see where do you think the dangers when they start saying, oh, we're primitive people with primitive energy. This is what they mean. And these white universities support this to say, oh, black woman, you're a God. And then they send them us, like in the clip with Mary Ann Wilson. Hey, there's a black man here to claim this man. How the hell can I deal with a woman that thinks she's God? Yeah. And then you have Nick Cannon. Last time I checked, Dick Cannon wasn't dating the most melanated women and having children by him, even though he got four in the last six months.

3:05:00 But Wussa. Whoa. I heard a Wussa in the wild the other day. You know where? Where? We were at the title company closing on our house to sell the house. And the lady who was doing the closing, black lady. And all of a sudden, she throws out a, I don't know what we were talking about. She's very funny. We're just chatting. She throws out a wussa. I go, whoosa. And she looks at me like, huh? It's a long story. It's a long story. But she threw out a wusha. I got it. And I threw it right back at her.

3:05:44 And it was fun. Yeah, it was a fun moment. Doing the work. And when you understand, we see first to understand and to be understood. But we have people saying this. And what I'm saying, I don't think any woman is God. I don't think any human is God with the exception of one God, but that's a total different story for another day. But how do you deal with that? You go out to these universities, and this is what this liberal feminists, I just got to say it, are blowing up their butts that you're gods, but in actuality, they see themselves as gods. But it's like, oh, yeah, you could be a god too, sister. Let's slay queen. You know what I'm saying? That kind of thing. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah. But they're not healthy. Not healthy. It's not healthy. It's not healthy.

3:06:28 And then you see, I'm just going to go back to the transcript or their interaction. He says, disrespect. Okay. He says, Black women are the most disrespected. That's the Malcolm X meme playing out there, which I agree in some sense. And it says, women, you're all women matter. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't say that. You can't say all women matter. That's totally, you know, I'm being facetious here. But that's like saying all lives matter. Nick, you're too woke to be saying that, Nick. You can't say all women matter. And then they say they want to put black women on a pedestal, too. So if you put them on a pedestal with all other women, then no one's on a pedestal.

3:07:11 Then the pedestal is non-existent. Then you're all on the same level. So hold on. So you're trying to tell me black woman is God, but you don't want to put her on a pedestal over other women. Oh, this is God. We're talking about here. Yeah, I think that was just those guys were. Oh, no. Oh, no. No, no, no, no, a curry. See, this is when we go to the next level. This is a running theme in our community. Okay. Supported by science. White supremacist science, I may add. Yes, which is out of Africa theory. Like I said, that's one of the most racist things I ever heard in my life.

3:07:53 If you want to say, if you want to go by the narrative, but I'm just saying, I'm just, but this is where it comes from. So when you have women going off to these schools and they've been indoctrinated that they're special at a very early age with gifted class and all these things, and then they go out to the Ivy League schools and they're probably one of a handful of black women. And you have these black women, women like, oh, say queen, you know what I'm saying? You're the mother of the earth. You know what I'm saying? All women came from you. But what they don't tell you is they think that, yeah, you're primitive. Yeah, you're the first, but you're not the best. See, they won't say that to your face. It's like we're the updated version. Because if you're first, we came after you, but we're better and we're smarter than you. But you have that primitive, you have that primitive twerking energy that you got going on.

3:08:38 The same thing with, I forget her name, the last lady that we looked at, the African lady. Oh, Sarah? Hot and Tot. Hot and Tot. Hot and Tot. Hot and Tot. Yes. Yes. So that's what they mean by print of energy. Let's channel your sex. I told you, don't bring this thing full circle. So this is what they're saying to Megan and Stallion and all of them. Let us use your sexual energy to bring people in, and we'll take our big white brains. We'll take it from here. Don't worry. We got it. We got it here. That's what I'm saying. And these women fall for this because they say, well, this is an elite school. This is an Ivy League school.

3:09:21 Okay. What's your point? Yeah. Well, so clearly, these Ivy League schools are really racist in their entire demeanor. I'll leave that there. But when we try, yeah, because they are because they're the ones that teach elitism and all these strange thought processes, school of thoughts come from. So yes, they are. You know, I was, there was a college campus kind of like a super cut, and it was asking kids if they felt America was racist and is, and, you know, it was, you know, you know what you're going to get with these kinds of man on the street questions.

3:10:02 It was in Washington, D.C., where everyone who's going to one of these universities probably has a lot of financial privilege, certainly. And but it was interesting. One girl said, Well, I go to an HBCU, so of course I think America is racist. I thought that to be really interesting, huh? I don't know how she correlates that. I'm just saying, that's just what popped up. It's like, because we're talking about things that I don't know exactly what they're teaching in universities. I have a pretty good idea from what they were teaching four years ago. Yes. Everything's racist. Everything's sexist. Intersectionality, which is really the hinted is the hidden payload in this critical race theory.

3:10:44 It's written by the same person. You know what I'm saying? I mean, like, we were on top of this way. I mean, I'm not. Oh, no, no, I agree. I'm just saying that the historically black colleges and universities are doing the same thing and just probably even turning up the heat. The historic, and I went to one, but most historic, private ones, let me be clear. Most private historic black colleges were created by white people. Oh, yes, the brown paper bag test. Not only that, but you're spellman is named after white guys. What's the rich guy? Rockefeller, named after his wife, made a name. Rockefeller was spending money, Carnegie, Carnegie, all these people were throwing money around in these schools.

3:11:27 And it's like you can't have independent thought. It's like, no, no, no. And it's still the same Rockefeller Foundation, Carnegie Foundation. There's a couple more that are, as we talked an hour ago, that are still the ones who mandate the curriculum based on the money they donate to the endowment. And bring up hot button topics. topics and see which side they um which side they lean on. Yeah, they're gonna lean on the side of whatever their paymasters tell them to say. And like I said, everybody gotta make a living, like Tiger Auntie said. Everybody gotta make a living. We all prostitutes ourselves our way, you know what I'm saying, a little bit at a time. That's not what I'm saying. It's not like it's exclusive, but

3:12:12 you have these people blowing your head up, and then they come back into the quote-unquote community with all these new thoughts and ideologies, and it doesn't job anywhere. Which, let's go ahead and jump into a brief overview of Massage Noir with Lanae Viny. Hey, y'all, what's up? It's Friday, so I'm gonna keep it black, but I'm gonna keep it brief. Ooh, they're not gonna like this one. Hey, tell like it is. So I just want to talk to y'all today about this thing called Massage Noir. Tell it. This is for black men to hear, for black women to feel heard, for white people to pay attention to in their endeavors toward anti-racism so they can better understand intersectionality.

3:12:49 We're listening. See, massage noir is a specific type of sexism black women experience. Or what Moya Bailey refers to as the specific hatred, dislike, distrust, and prejudice directed toward black women. Now we can talk about this subject any day of the year, but it's different during Black History Month, okay? Hello, somebody. You see, earlier this week, I posted a reel about Joanne Robinson, the woman who was the actual brains and bronze behind the Montgomery bus boycott, not Dr. King, like most of us believed or inferred from our civil rights movement lessons in grade school. And while I was just redirecting credit to give credit where it was due, somehow black men still found a way to respond negatively, saying I was disrespecting Dr. King's legacy or that the women involved were irrelevant because obviously Dr. King was needed to pull it off. Now, the civil rights movement was male-dominated in terms of representation, largely part due to respectability politics.

3:13:33 What many conveniently forget is that respectability politics are inherently sexist and thus left many women on the back burner or in the shadows of the movement like Mary Louise Smith. Who? Oh, just one of the many women who got arrested for refusing to give up their seat on the Montgomery bus before Rosa Park and Claudette Coleman. Yeah, my girl Ella Baker just said, Don't even worry about me. But y'all wasn't going to do that anyway. And y'all wasn't going to do that anyway because that's just how y'all are. Massage Noir has not only resulted in black women not getting credit, Massage Noir has also let a lot of black men get away with doing a lot of things to black women. Make it plain. And my thing is, if y'all are upset about us taking some of these fumblies bestowed flowers and giving them to the women that deserve them, oh, they're not going to like it. Girl, just say it. They're going to be mad at me for this one. Well, that's too damn bad. All right. Now, who is Lane Vinay?

3:14:18 Some talking head black feminist on YouTube. Okay. But I just use her as the chatterbox of just unwholesh. What's the point? What's up? I mean, what are you saying here? And your facts are not even straight. We're going to get to that a little later, but just okay, say for instance, if we had the same black, and I say we, black men had the same mentality as them. When the movie Hidden Colors came, hidden figures came out about the black female scientists at NASA, right? We could say, what about the black men at NASA? We don't have any representation of black men in the movie. You know what I'm saying? We know we said let the sisters rock. You know what I'm saying? Hey, this is going to get little black girls into STEM.

3:14:59 It's a good thing. Right? We didn't come out and try to tear down people. And people say, well, Mo, you made an episode about Martin Luther King. Yeah, to show that he wasn't even in control of himself. I'm always going back to following the stream. I'm not going to stop looking where you want me to stop looking at. I'm going to follow the trail all the way back to who's pulling the strings. And I even gave the credit to MLK to say, yeah, he was controlled as being younger because he was just the same man as Greta Thornberg. Thunberg. That he had no control over. I mean, he was being set up to be who he was by controlling factors as a very young person.

3:15:39 And then at one point when he decided to change and break narrative, you saw what happened to him. But I'm not just going to say, I'm not just going to tear him down for the sake of tearing people down. That's not what we do here. But that's what they do. It's like, see, sisters, see feminist sisters. Look how down I am for the cause. I'm going to tear down every black man I see to show their solidarity with white feminists. I mean, if we're going to talk about it, we're going to talk about it. And this is where it comes in: respectability politics. This is what we need to understand. And with that, this is a new term for me. I had not heard of this. Right. But you're going to see how it's saying how it's important to the overarching topic of the show, 35.

3:16:24 So this is Paul Lawrence Dunbar's We Wear the Mask. We wear the mask that grins and lies. It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes. This debt we pay to human guile with torn and bleeding hearts we smile and mouth with mirrored subtleties. Why should the world be overwise? in counting all of our tears and sighs nay, let them only see us while we wear the mask? After reading the poem, my anxiety level tripled because I realized that Paul Lawrence Dunbar was talking about the black American identity, an identity that I hadn't really quite grasped yet.

3:17:08 Something that I was deeply struggling with. And now I realize reading his poem that the mask he was referring to was the mask of respectability politics. Respectability politics is a tactic used by marginalized groups to subvert or avert racism and stereotypes. They do this by doing the exact opposite of what the stereotype or racist comment would suggest. So I'm an African-American person, a stereotype about African-American people as we like to listen to our music really, really loud.

3:17:47 So if I was practicing respectability politics, I would make sure that when I was driving my car, I would turn my music on medium or low, not to disturb the other cars around me. Or if I'm having a house party, have some friends over, I'd make sure my music was low. Now, the goal of respectability politics is to raise the status of the marginalized group by counteracting this stereotype. Holy crap. Yeah, okay. By the way, this is new to me. Black people listen to their music louder than white people or brown people.

3:18:29 Is that not really? No. I don't see that. We may have music has more bass in it. So it may trap me to that. But let me get, excuse me. Let me give you an example of that. Like, I had 215s. You know what I'm saying? You had your knock in your car. Way too loud. Probably going to be deaf because of it. But my dad would say, hey, before you turn that corner up there, turn it down. You better have it turned down. Not out of because, oh, you know that you're black and you know, son, I don't want you to be seen as black by having, you know, the loud music because it'll definitely give it away. I think my skin would give it away. You know what I'm saying? But it was out of the fact that my neighbor worked second shift and he slept.

3:19:15 And my dad didn't want to have his damn pictures shaking on his wall. You know what I'm saying? It's out of respect, but see, this is the danger. That's why I said these new ideas they learn. I've never heard of this term before in my life until these women started talking about it. So now it's a put on some clothes and be respectful. Oh, no, no, no. You put your oppression on me. I should be able to twerk wherever I want to. Right. I mean, like you participate in respectability politics when you put the mask on. Or if you put the mask on, right? It's like, I don't want, I don't want to smoke today. I just want to go in here and get some steaks and go home.

3:19:53 So let me just put the mask on. So it is a real thing, but now it's been spread out to everything. It's like any behavior. One of them being, and oh, I'm going to hit a hot button here. The bonnets. Oh, the bonnets. So the bonnets is this thing that women wear to cover their hair. Now, I understand why women wear bonnets. Like it used to be like when your grandma had her hair curl with them little pink curlers with that wax paper. She wanted her curls to be tight. So she would have it curled rice and tight and put the cap over top of it. So before she left the house, you know what I'm saying? Her curls wouldn't fall out. But what's happening is these people are starting to wear it out in public.

3:20:34 Yes. It's just on. If you want to wear it out in public, that's fine, but you got to have what comes along with it. The understanding it looks like you didn't prepare yourself for the day. Right. I mean, because that's the origin of it is that black women will have a house coat or a house dress, you know, and then they roll this with their bonnet. And it's like, I'm not going to put my clothes on. So I'll be nice and pressed and my hair will be nice and fresh when I take the rollers out before I walk out the door. So when you walk out the door, it looks like you're ill-prepared. But when you say something, oh, you were disrespecting my respectability politics. That kind of thing. It's like, what? Wait, huh? How tired? Of course.

3:21:12 Now you see. Hello. So now we're dealing with God that can't even be questioned. And not all. Like I said, I'm being very, and these are the strollers. This is what I say to the ladies that actually feel the same way I do. We got your back if you speak up, but we can't speak up, right? I mean, we can't say anything. It's like me trying to make the case on some. somebody's behalf that don't even want to make a case for themselves. Right. So this is more, and this is why I took my time with these episodes because it's a very sensitive subject, not only about black, but it's for women. It's a very sensitive subject. You know what? The women think a coon. I just found

3:21:57 an article. What is this? Your tango? The power of black hair bonnet: why it's not unprofessional to wear it outside from January 8th, 2021. What publication? Your tango. I have no idea what that is. Exactly. You see what I'm saying? I mean, it's like, why are y'all putting so much energy on? Like I said, and this is nothing, it was an irk of mine. This is why I got the Mars rover thing from it's amazing that we can put a rover on Mars, but we can't safely straighten black women's hair. Hey, I'm gonna, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm gonna give you that bigly. Yes. Come on, science. Because what it is,

3:22:42 it's a hot button topic that you can make people feel self-conscious about. So that's why they don't want to come on. But I'll keep moving. But the respectability politics is the all-encompassing shield to push back against anything that you may question about anybody. It's like, oh, you want me, you want to put me in a box? You know, that kind of thing. This is where the crown act comes from and all these things in that nature. Hey, I had cornrows. I used to have the straight back and the ovises. Come on. But when I had to get a security job, I was like, hey, you got to cut your hair. It's like, well, do I want to look cool or I want to work? Which is not right to make somebody cut their hair. But at the same time, if you're trying to present a militaristic style look, you got to have the fresh cut to go with it.

3:23:28 You're saying, I get it. Just so you know, I was fired several times for not cutting my hair. Oh, you should have called up respectability politics. They weren't respecting your crown, King. This was in the 80s. We didn't have this shit yet. We hadn't figured that out. We were working on it. But what they're doing is what the trick they always do. You open the door and then you're going to hold it while we get all these other things pushed in. Exactly. See, people on there are not ready, but okay, Brittany Cooper. Let's go on to 36. And let me get a little background on Brittany Cooper. She's a severe black man hater, but continue on. And it has since become a subsequent book project. And that book is called Beyond Respectability: The Intellectual Thought of Race Women.

3:24:11 And my goal in that book is not to write this sort of stuffy academic tome about black women as thinkers, although I do want it to be taken seriously and to have these women taken seriously. But it's also to say that these women were complex and interesting, that they both thought robustly about how to help black communities get free by day, but that they were also, you know, fun and interesting folks. So there's the fact that like one of the things I discovered as I was writing about Ida B. Wells is that she had a shopping habit and that sometimes she couldn't pay her rent because she spent too much money at the dressmaker shop, right?

3:24:49 I found out as I was writing that Mary Church Terrell was like an exquisite arbiter of shade or what we would call shade in this day and time. You know, so I tell a great story in my book about how a bunch of white women kept on mistaking Mary Church Terrell for a white woman and they kept calling, asking her where they could find the American Negress that was coming to give a talk at this conference. And they were talking to her and didn't realize who they were talking to. And so she had a joke at their expense and played along with the ruse. And then on the day of the conference, she stands up and gives this magnificent, magnificent speech in French and German and shuts them all down.

3:25:29 And there's nothing, there's a black girl magic to that that we sometimes miss because we think of Mary Church Terrell as kind of a stuffy, elitist black lady from the 19th century. So basically they're trying to paint the narrative for these women as being human or their former human. Like, oh, she was bad with her money too. So I'm saying that. That's right. I heard that. Right. So that's the, that's what it is: you might want to be good with your money. Hold on, who you just tell me how to spend my money? You know what I'm saying? It's like, what, what? It's like, you realize debt is a slavery. Yeah, just, man, just looking at Brittany C.

3:26:12 Cooper, she looks, she reminds me of Stacey Abrams in a lot of ways. A lot of ways. And that is a that is by design. That is by design. But we're seeing that who the money and the controlling forces behind these people are these ideas where they come from. But on the flip side, side of this, we're going to really look at the money and the power behind the Montgomery bus boycott that Lane Vanee brought up as being somebody else. But this is the point. They don't deal in fact. They deal in narrative.

3:40:41 She did the brains and the bronze behind the boys bus boycotts. Well, not exactly. We've talked about the dirs, Virginia Durr and her husband on the episode. We talked about Rose of Parks, which sips my mind. But so now we have to really dig into it because just to, I'm using this to prove a point that if you're gonna go, if you're gonna dig, go all the way down the rabbit hole. So now we have to look at the dirs of Montgomery One. What I remember is just what a mesmerizing storyteller she was.

3:41:19 she was. We had done research on the Southern Conference for Human Welfare and the anti-poll tax campaign and so on. But what Virginia really wanted to talk about was a much more personal story. And it was a story about how a young woman growing up in the circumstances she was in learned to think in a certain way about race and class and to have certain sets of expectations and ideals. And then how her world began to change around her.

3:42:03 And she gradually woke up to a different way of looking at the world. So it was a story about the making of a traditional Southern lady and the unmaking of and re-education of a Southern woman. I'm a Southerner. I got to go way back yonder. Got to tell you who the granddaddy was. We will start with Reconstruction. All right, so Virginia Durr, she was known as a great storyteller. Rosa Parks worked as a seamstress for her and her husband. Her husband was a lawyer at the time.

3:42:47 And so we're going to get into the past of Virginia Durr is and examine her motives for getting involved in the civil rights movement, which it wasn't even a civil rights movement at the time when she got involved down at Montgomery. So what we have to do now is go back and look into her background. Any comments before we get into the next clip? No, no, I'm following along. All right, 38. My great-grandfather married a woman named Hannah Johnston. Anyway, they established themselves in Union Springs and he was a doctor. And they lived in great style. My recollection is that when I first

3:43:31 remember the plantation, they owned about 35,000 acres of land, which was a lot of land. One has to remember that in Alabama, there hadn't been a lot of big plantations. Most plantations were small. They were four or five hundred acres, 600 acres, 700 acres, something like that. Well, the Foster plantations were thousands and thousands of acres. I mean, it just absolutely boggles the mind to think of the wealth and power of the Foster family. Now, did your grandfather have slaves? Oh, heavens, yes. What happened? Well, during the Civil War, I ever heard of was that the slaves just were so crazy about them that they, you know, hid their silver and took the horses into the swamps and I loved them dearly.

3:44:19 Now, I was brought up, you see, on the romantic tradition of the slave system being benevolent. In the late 19th, early 20th century, when Virginia was growing up, there is this invention of the plantation south and the myth of this wonderful era where African Americans were happy being subordinate, where white women were happy being subordinate, and white men were able to provide everything that everybody needed without actually having to work very hard. This plantation myth of somehow this ideal position in the past is a fiction. I mean, when you say it like that, it has to be a fiction. It couldn't be anything but a fiction.

3:45:02 This is a fascinating period I know so little about. And I'm waiting for the, you know, because, of course, I know Rosa, I know the Rosa Park story and, well, what really came before Rosa Park. So I'm interested how it all ties in. Oh, you would never know much about this period because it's so pivotal to American history. It's shrouded in nothing but narrative. Yeah. Nothing. I mean, that's black people you bought, you were sold. That was it. Well, Eleanor Roosevelt had a big role in all of this somehow. Right. And her and other people as well. But just to get Virginia Durr, she was originally Virginia Foster.

3:45:46 And her foster family, as you heard a man say, the average plantation was about 500 acres. She had thousands and thousands. 35,000. Now, just think how many slaves you got to have to work a 35,000 acre plantation. And she comes from the romantic tradition of slavery. She was very much an aristocratic Southern woman. woman. So just for perspective, we always had that clip, Massa speaks with the slave masters talking about how black people were like children and all that.

3:46:28 That was from the heritage of slavery by Fannie Lou Hamer and LaRon Bennett. So I've been saving this clip from the time I clipped that. And this is Mrs. Ann Speaks. But underneath the graciousness, old relationships are often found intact. Descendants of slaves work for descendants of slave owners. Mrs. Lionel Legg retains the tone of a past she cherishes. So Daisy was my little playmate, my maid, my friend, and the daughter of old Catherine, who is a cook that we adored.

3:47:07 And so all those years we've played together and everyone was happy. We never heard of all these things we hear about today. And there were nearly a hundred, enormous race plantations with many animals around and a beautiful old house and about a hundred colored people there. But we loved them. They were our friends. And then it's no disgrace to say they're like children. When we say that, it's because they are like happy children, some of them. Because they like to sit in the sun rather than work hard.

3:47:51 And they'd rather play than work. If you could, would you paint a picture for us of what it was like on the plantation in your early days? It was a lovely, happy time living in open spaces with many lovely colored people and animals and flowers and fields. My father had everything sourbred from the pigs, horses, the dogs, and the people had to be sorrowed. Oh, man, good times. Thoroughbred people. Good times. This is where that primitive people narrative comes from from the Miss Anns in Harlem.

3:48:33 Like, they're happy. They just want to sit out in the sunshine and sing and dance. And we have to be with the other animals. Yeah, we just have to. We have to govern all. I mean, yeah, but this is like they won't do anything. They won't do anything. They'll just sit in the sun. Right. What would they do? And this is where, okay, The Princess and the Frog. I don't know if you're familiar with that movie or not, but that's the one with the Black Princess. But one thing, there's a lot of problematic memes that's going on here with the modern modern movies. And one of them being in that, it was Big Daddy.

3:49:13 Remember, Big Daddy was the white man, and he, I don't know what the hell he did, but he was just Big Daddy. He had all the money, and his daughter played with Tiara. You know what I'm saying? And she didn't really have to take life seriously because she had it all figured out. Big Daddy's going to figure it out for her. Yeah, Big Daddy on the plantation. Hello? Exactly. Yeah, another mouse movie. FYI. Another, I told you the mouse got to go. But with that said, now we got to go back to Virginia Durr, just give you some perspective of the plantation life and of the happy-go-lucky slave mentality and the romantic history of slavery.

3:54:52 Crazy times. So let's go back to Virginia Durran. Now we're going to see why she was a problem to her opponents and who was the power behind her. For those first few years, 51, 52, 53, they have a relatively low profile in Montgomery. And then quite out of the blue, they are thrown into the spotlight. Well, Virginia's efforts to be quiet. I mean, her cover was blown in 1954 as the Brown ruling is on the horizon. And Senator James Eastland sees really Through You Go Black and these Southern progressives as a way to try to smear Brown as some kind of communist conspiracy.

3:55:43 So Virginia gets a subpoena to go to New Orleans for a hearing. Now, what social security cards have you held since 1952? I declined to answer that question on the grounds previously stated. In 1954, Eastland, Senator from Mississippi, opens the first set. of hearings in the South in New Orleans on this question of communist infiltration of various aspects of American life and the U.S. government and begins to call members of Cliffin, a Virginia Durris circle of white Southern liberals and leftists to testify.

3:56:26 Eastland was in high dudgeon over the behavior of people like the Durrs. All these white people acting like they were common trash out there mixing with these black people. It was outrageous. It was communist. We just couldn't put up with it. I never heard this part to that. This was the start of the anti-Com, the rooting out the commies? Yes. Wow. And one person they bring up is Hugo Black. Now, Hugo Black just so happens to be Virginia Durr's brother-in-law through marriage to her sister. Just so happens. Amazing how that just so happens. Just so happens that she's married.

3:57:09 Her sister's married to one of the most, quote, Wikipedia, one of the most influential Supreme Court justices of the 20th century. How convenient. How convenient, but oh, it's this black lady over here making flyers. This pushing the buttons. See how dangerous that is? Because when it's all said and done, you're going to put that blame on the black lady. And we're not going to do that. You know what I'm saying? We're going to go and follow the communist trail back to where it goes. And just so happens, Hugo Black was a former lifelong member of the KKK. Now, I don't know how you'd be a former lifelong member. I don't know.

3:57:51 I don't understand how that works. Well, he resigned from the KKK in 1920. Oh, yes. Gonna put my two-week notice into the Klan. That's how it works. Even though, guess what? Guess what? He had the grand passport. How you like that? That's how whiteness works, folks. You know what I'm saying? It's going to be certain ways you can move and certain ways you can't move. And I said, it begins with us. And the same way now, when you say, okay, somebody, oh, they're communists. Oh, you're just a racist. You don't know. They're actually literally communist, which I don't know. That puts black people in a weird position if you got me choosing between a quote-unquote racist and a quote-unquote communist, because communist is another name for slavery.

3:58:37 In my book, that's just my perspective. Well, okay. I'm just saying, this is my perception. I'm just telling you want me to work and somebody can work less as hard as me and we equally get the same thing. This is a guy we need to talk about more. I did not know any of this. He was a Democrat. He was a senator. Of course. He said he was in the Klan. Well, he was a senator for Alabama. Wow. So a senator, KKK member, and a Supreme Court justice. You might want to bring that up from time to time. You might think. Yeah.

3:59:18 But no, like I said, and that's what this is how seductive white supremacy is. Because when you knock one down one, when you unnerf one thing, you're like, oh, Rosa Parks is like, oh, okay. No, no, no. It's caught at COVID. It's like, no, no, no, no. And then this is lady that she mentioned. You know, no, no, no, no. But it never gets to the root. It never gets to Virginia Durr. And who's pulling her strings, Hugo Black? You see how that works? Yeah. Holy crap. It's crazy, but let's go into Dur 5. Someone like Virginia Durer in particular is a nightmare for Eastland because here are native white southerners who are opposed to the party line, who are undermining segregation just when he thinks it needs to be shored up.

4:00:05 Just when it's under attack and under siege, you have these internal enemies. You have this fifth column of white people who grew up in the South, who talk with a Southern accent, who are now talking about addressing racial inequality. And so to his mind, these are traitors, right? And he needs to destroy them. And, you know, how do you destroy a traitor? Well, you link them to the worst possible thing that you could be in early 1950s America, and that is a communist. Well, you were a secret member of the Communist Party while you were in Memphis, Tennessee. I declined to answer on the same thing. If you want me to read the magnet, I will. Would you like to understand that? It's 1215. I'll start on them.

4:00:48 I think Eastland was much more politically adept than most Southern politicians about how to use your power within the Democratic Party to resist change. and how to undermine the credibility of the civil rights movement by playing on national fears of communism. Virginia has nothing but contempt for Island. And in fact, she levies at him what is probably her strongest words of condemnation towards anyone. And she calls him common. He's common as pig tracks. There it is. Pig tracks. Shout out to AO. There it is.

4:01:30 Common. What does that word mean to you? I don't want to lead the witness. Common, what does that word mean to you? Common is regular, normal. Yeah, I mean, just ask it when you hear that somebody calls somebody else common. Oh, well, common is a lower than you, is a commoner, is a plebe, a pleb, lower class. White trash. And this, that's how it was meant in this term. So you got to remember, Virginia Durr was a Virginia Foster that came from money in this South. Yep. And she sees these poor white people taking over the South and politics.

4:02:09 And it's like, I'd rather deal with black people so I'll be under the rule of common white folk. Wow. Yeah. Now, that's what I was saying. Go ahead. In this context, can we equate communism with Marxism or is it too early in the story for that? Well, it's the same. It's the same thing. Communists, that's the same communists that have been in the South since the 1930s we talked about before. Yep. How the communists literally came in to try and get people to join on board, and it was black people who showed up. That's correct. So you had those in-roads already. So then you send communist people like Virginia Durr and her ilk down to set up these establishments and tap into this ground force.

4:02:58 And people like the guy that she called common was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's like, I see what y'all are doing here. Now I'm not taking up for him in no means any sense. But what I'm saying is, this is an intra-racial war that we're being brought into. That's been going on for a long time. It's still going, hello. And when it's all said and done, they'll make up, you know, kiss and make up. And then whoever's brought into it has to pay. That's what, I mean, this is not about history here. What I'm saying is, this is the same thing happening over and over and over and over again.

4:03:39 And, you know, and if you don't believe me, let's just go ahead and go to 43. In the spring of 1955, Virginia arranged for Rosa to attend the Highlander Folk School in Tennessee. Highlander was an integrated training ground for union and community organizers. Things have been building up to the point where something like the Rosa Parks situation was bound to happen. The evening of December 1st, 1955, Miss Parks refused to give up her seat to a white man on a city bus and was subsequently arrested. From the jail, she called Ed Nixon, the head of the local NAACP chapter. Edie Nixon called Durr. I mean, he was a logical person for them to turn to. He was white.

4:04:19 He was an attorney. He certainly stood a better chance than a black attorney would in dealing with this situation. E.D. Nixon has gone, left his home, gone to their home to pick them up. I've always tried to picture this in my mind. Did the Durr sit in the back seat? Did Cliff sit in front with Mr. Nixon? And Virginia sat in the backseat? What did they do when they got to the jail? What happened? I'd like to be a part of that. It is an extraordinary moment when Rosa Parks is arrested and taken to the jail. And there is Virginia and Cliff, along with E.D. Nixon, present in some ways at the creation of the modern civil rights movement.

4:04:59 They get there and arrange for Mrs. Parks to be released. And, you know, Rosa Parks recalls coming out and she and Virginia embracing. And she said, we hugged like we were sisters. What's this Highlander folk school? Is this some kind of propaganda training camp? It's the communist school that we shall overcame out. I know. We talked about it before. Yes, Martin Luther King was even stylized. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I remember this. I remember this. But hold on, but now they're suspected communists. But she's sending Rosa off. She sent Rosa off to go. Now, he said this. She sent Rosa off to go to school there, right? Yeah. But then he wonders why E.D. Nixon called the Durs when Rosa got locked up.

4:05:43 It was part of the plan. Hello, can you not see? It just so happens. It's like, oh, who should we call? But I want to get to one point so we can keep moving on. But I just need to say. say for people who missed that previous episode, I won't ask you what episode it was, Mo. But Rosa Parks attended a workshop at Highlander for four months before the infamous bus. And I think that's Dream Machine that we cover that in. Oh, that could be it. That could be it. I think it was Dream Machine. And if not, it could be also, I know we talked about the communism in the South. And also in the one with about 1619, the Shell game, a Shell game. So both of those, those will probably give you great background on what we're talking about now.

4:06:28 But yeah, so you're sending her off to go to this school, the same school that wrote We Shall Overcome. And then you wonder why the Durs are involved when Rosa gets arrested. I don't think it works like that. But that just goes to show you, Miss Lane, Lane Vini, when you do digging, go all the way. Go all the way to the money. Hugo Black was pulling the strings all the way down the line, in my perspective, in my opinion. Sure looks like it. So even still, Virginia Durr was being used. You know what I'm saying? It's the same model as, you know, she was, it was the same plantation model.

4:07:11 She had her black people out there working for her, and she got to be in the limelight. And Big Daddy Master was pulling the strings. It never changed. And what she was fighting against were the common white folks taking over in the time. And this is where a lot of your Confederate statues and stuff came in. You know, they were trying to reestablish pride, white pride. So these common white folk that had lost everything in the Civil War, they were like, okay, we're going to reestablish the narrative, which this is why these things are important to them. Like I said, I'm not taking defendant or, you know what I'm saying? I'm not defending in any way. I'm just explaining to explaining how I understand why these things are important because this is when they were able to establish their own narrative for how the South worked.

4:08:00 And the real Southerners would be the Ders, which the Fosters, which eventually came to Derves. So hopefully all that, because hopefully all that makes sense. Well, you know how it makes sense to me in that this entire podcast is, I think it's about equal to a $150,000 college degree in history. I mean it. I mean it. Which teaches you history is only narrative by whoever won the say this and some history teachers might get mad at me, but I think we need to get rid of history in public schools.

4:08:41 Now, wait, wait for you get your, you're saying, for you get your bloomers in a bunch. What I'm saying is, if we can't prove anything or it's going to be argumentative, why teaching in public schools? Why don't you teach people about political science, civics, so they understand how to actually function the government they have, not looking back and pointing fingers at each other and making it uncomfortable for each other on stuff that's not even agreed upon. So it's like, okay, you know what? Learn history in your churches, in your community centers, those kind of things. But when we come here, we're going to teach you how your government actually works because you can wield the power of it. I would much rather see that.

4:09:19 No, I disagree. It should be every university should just give their students the tuition back and a podcast. And you say, here, this is remote facts. Go listen to this. Here's your money back. You're good to go. You can fix everything now. I totally support that message. That's great, man. I love it. But you know, of course, you're right. Whoever wins writes the history. But all this, and this history, it's just, it wasn't told to me. And it's that simple. And like I said, we can look at some people say Rosa Parks. Some people say Claudette Covin. Some people say other people's. I will say Hugo Black at the aid of Virginia Durr.

4:09:58 But where it gets dangerous at, now we got to come back to, I was picking on Lane. What I want to do is show how when you don't have history straight or you try to start rewriting history, it kind of really unravels it and makes it useless. So let's go to 44. And y'all can be real sad to find out the truth about how some of y'all's faves treated black women back in the day. Tell the truth. Shame the devil. For example, Reverend James Bevel. Beville was a minister that helped to spearhead the Birmingham Children's Who Save. A surprisingly little known movement in black history where thousands of black children in Montgomery, Alabama, marked in the streets for integrations when their parents couldn't and went to jail. 5,000 arrests were made. So while Beville played a crucial role in orchestrating the movement, Bevill was also convicted of incest and raping his own black daughters.

4:10:40 Elgis Cleaver, famed leader of the Black Panther Party, but also admitted in his book Soul On Ice that when he was younger, he had aims to rape white women as some sort of retribution. And so he practiced raping young black girls. because he knew nobody would care about them. We're gonna need some more tea is hot, but the facts are facts. And be clear, none of this takes away from what they did for these movements. But if you're walking like a duck and quack like a duck, then guess what? Ask like not paying me. But I'm sure a lot of black men will prefer us not to talk about these things, especially during a month like this, making statements like, Yo, some things we shouldn't talk about. Some of these things were necessary for us to get to the place that we are today. Oh, you mean like when the white folks didn't want to talk about slavery because it was necessary for America to become what it is today. But what a lot of black men either forgot, and honestly, it's men and women, women who've internalized massage noir.

4:11:21 But what a lot of y'all either forget, fail to realize, or just ignore really, is that we aren't just black, we're women too. And that is the reality of our black history. And black women all over the globe have kind of come to this point where we're kind of tired of sweeping things under the rug. We've come to this point of undoing the things that once did us under. Okay, call it out so that it won't happen again. So things can be better for the young black girls of tomorrow. And also so we don't further internalize massage noir and project it on the Chloe Bays of the world who are just minding their young, fine, black woman ass business. But that might be a whole nother conversation. Where does she get her credibility from? White universities. Okay. See how that works? It's like, I don't, you're gonna go off and go to the epicenters of whiteness and what I mean by whiteness, not race, not color, but the power establishment, the same ones that tells us

4:12:14 all of these medical facts and everything else that goes along with it, historical facts, but then you're gonna internalize what they say. Now, these are the same people say, oh no, Hugo Black was a former KKK member. Bird was a former KKK member. Joe Biden has been reformed and redeemed. You know what I'm saying? White women ain't gonna play that game with their men. You see how that works? But when it comes to us, oh, Elder Clear, I'm not those men have problems. Fine. I'm all for it. But what I'm saying is, your feminist sister is not going to do the same thing that you're doing. So are y'all really sisters? See, y'all ready to put us up on the block to be sacrificed.

4:12:58 But they understand, like, but dirt understand that Hugo Girl Black was the power behind her. So she'll look the other way on the KKK membership to push civil rights. Now, how does that work? Please tell me how that works. But they have gotten smarter because what they now can do is outsource the Miss Ann job. We go back to Caitlin Greenwich. We go back to this article and we go back to Massage Noir. You grew up in Boston. I'm from Boston. Yep. What part? I'm from Somerville. We got to be cool acceptable with the flies. Okay. I'm from, well, I'm from Arlington originally, which is a suburb outside of Boston.

4:13:43 Then we moved to Somerville when I was like halfway through childhood. Okay. And you got siblings? I do. I have two older sisters. They're also writers. So my oldest sister is a playwright, Kirsten Greenidge, and then my middle sister is a historian, Carrie Greenwich. And they're both in the Boston area still. Now, your parents are American Black. Well, my dad's family is from Barbados. Somebody, you know what? I knew it because y'all all got the letters. Y'all old first name going to start with the same one. What does that mean? That's a West Indian thing. Really? No, we're West Indian. Yeah, my dad's family is from Barbados, West Indian.

4:14:25 They're from a small part of Cambridge that in the last Massachusetts. Yeah, Massachusetts. In the last couple of years or last decade or so, it's gentrified. But for many years, for most of the 20th century, this one area of Cambridge was like a West Indian holdout haven kind of place. And so they moved to Cambridge in like 1909 with two families from the same small village in Barbados, moved to the same like three-block radius in Cambridge, stayed within it. It was a big deal when my dad married someone who's not West Indian, who's American black.

4:15:08 Yeah. Nick Deal, huh? It's a big deal that your quote-unquote black dad married a black woman, but it was a big deal. Why is that? It's lineage. It's family. Like she said, they came here from Barbados to Cambridge and set up their own community. They work within themselves. So now what they can do is not all, not, let's be clear. Not all, not even most, a small minority. I will say 10%, the talent 10%. They are allowed to use these people that look like us to. to formulate narratives, but they have no connection with us. Now, you might say, Mo, you're far, you're reaching a little bit. Well, let's go to 46.

4:15:53 Yeah, it was when they got married. Yeah, my mom tells a story about how she went over to that to their house. He invited her over to their house after they got engaged. She was sitting having tea with my grandmother, with my dad's mom, and literally the entire neighborhood made it a point to stop through and just kind of check her out. Like, this is the Negro who came in here. No, she's not even right. No, yep, yeah. Yeah, so that's that's the background. Okay, cool. And so, for you, you growing up, you're the youngest. Um, your parents, what did they do professionally?

4:16:33 My mom speak of a family full of writers. Oh, yeah. Well, my mom, she's now a social worker. When I was growing up, she worked with autistic people, children, especially. And my dad was a lawyer, so he worked for the FBI for a while here in New York. Daddy was defense, prosecuting the mob. He worked on kind of the first anti-racketeering cases in the 70s. And then he went to a white shoe law firm in Boston. He is one of their few black lawyers there. This, by the way, is one of the games I love to play the most with people ever since, you know, because I never really thought about it.

4:17:14 But when people are telling me, like, well, you know, they kicked the black guy off of Fox and Friends. You know, Juan Williams has, you know, he's from Panama. It's not exactly African American in that context when you say black. And you have to kind of take people through, you know, that's not exactly the same thing. Let me give a perfect example because we do share being melanated. So that's that's, and you sure they could easily be perceived as black when moving about in America. That's not my point. My point is just as clueless as I am about going what's going on in Haiti right now. Exactly. I have, I have no point or privilege.

4:17:55 I will never make a show about the Haiti Haitian president because I have no understanding of context about Haitian politics or even Haitian culture. Right. So I can't, I can only speak from what I was saying before as an outsider. Even if I moved to Haiti today, I would still be perceived as an outsider. And that's fine and well. At the same time, here they have people come here writing articles about blackness misogyny war about black American men. That's what she means. And that reason why I played that clip about who came to her, her mother going to her

4:18:35 meet her dad and everybody in the community coming by, like, oh, let's go take a look at it. And even she said, she said, when she did her Kamala cackle, she was like, who is this Negro? Like, really? And then this is how duplicit they are because you have her talking about her dad works in the FBI, but then I have a tweet of hers talking about how Lebrain, Lorraine Hansbury, was so heavily monitored by the FBI. That's the writer of the Erasing The Sun. But she was being monitored by the FBI because she was thought to be a communist. No, but my dad's in the FBI, but the FBI is bad, but not my dad.

4:19:16 You know what I'm saying? It's this weird mind. And not saying that what I'm, I guess what I'm saying is this: they're never on one side or the other. They like the benefits and the privileges that come with saying, oh, my dad's a white shoe lawyer. Which, I mean, white shoe lawyer has this. That sounds kind of racist in itself. But I mean, that's a joke. But what I'm saying is that if you really think about it, you want to tout these institutions of whiteness, not race, but privilege. At the same time, trying to tear down the institutions. It doesn't work like that.

4:20:01 And then the reason why I find her so dangerous is not only she's writing about massage in the war, I looked at another article of hers from Harper Bazaar: the specific experience of being black and getting the corona vaccine. Oh, man, she has absolutely no business talking about that. You want a bet? She tells a great story. Oh, yeah. That's exactly who you want to be talking about. But I'm just to go to show you. So I'm going to breeze through these next two clips, but just for perspective of how out of touch she is with the target, target audience she's brought in. in to communicate with. She wrote a book called We Love Charlie Freeman. And I have

4:20:46 Shalee Stories, a YouTube channel. She does a book review of this book. And this is a black Ados woman doing the book review. And just listen how out of touch she is with this target audience she's brought to bring in and communicate with. This book centers around like this institution and they do research. And in this book, this African-American family is asked by this institution to come teach a monkey American Sign Language. So we kind of start off in one of the first scenes and the daughter, the teenage daughter, is thinking back on their way to this institution. And she says her mother cut her hair off. The mom has African American mother has beautiful hair and she cuts it off because they're going to a predominantly white area for this institution and there's not going to be anyone to do her hair.

4:21:33 So that's kind of when I first was like, okay, that's a little weird. You know, you're 30, 40 years old, just cling to ponytail and go about your day, you know. But, you know, I felt open-minded. That was not a big deal. I was like, okay, that's weird. She also offered to cut her daughter's hair off, I guess. Daughter wasn't really feeling that. I'm like, okay. So they get to this institution and, you know, they're there and they start teaching this monkey. I'm trying not to give too many spoilers, by the way. But I'll try and kind of give why I wasn't really fond of this book as much as possible. So they get to this institution and they're living with this monkey. And trying not to give too many spoilers, but there was this scene with the mother. She got a little too close with the monkey.

4:22:15 That was off-putting. And for me, I was just kind of like, I'm trying to put this delicately. As a black woman and knowing black women, not being stereotypical, but I just kept trying to picture myself as a black woman that knows American Sign Language, learning American Sign Language. Would I take my children to this institution, the Potomac White area, which isn't that big of a deal, but and do this level of closeness with a monkey? No. Run that by. I didn't quite get everything at the last.

4:22:52 She went to the, just tell me that again. So basically, she went to the, she moved her family to this all-white neighborhood to be a sign language coach to a monkey. Okay. They cut all their hair out before they go, which from Shalee's stories, that's black women wouldn't do that just because they couldn't find somebody to do their hair. And then she gets awfully close with a monkey. And like the glaze was like, no, like, no, that's not believable. No. So just to continue on with the

4:23:36 information in the book or the book review, let's go to part two. And I was just like, no, I just couldn't see it. I was like, a lot of the situations she had, and I have a more detailed review of this on Goodreads, but the situations, these characters, even the characters that were kind of far back, I was just kind of like, ooh, you know, again, I'm not trying to give too many spoilers away, but I just feel like this author bit off more than she could choose. I don't know. I felt like she didn't really connect how these people know American Sign Language, how this family knows American Sign Language, and what is really driving them to just go live with this monkey and make him a part of their family.

4:24:16 I was like, okay, where's the connection here? How do they know American Sign Language? Like, I just couldn't put it together. And then she has a whole other storyline with a teenage daughter and kind of a relationship situation. And that's a whole nother issue of sexuality. And it was just too many going on. So we have American Sign Language, Deaf Culture, kind of touching on that. We have racism, black culture, black identity, which again is another heavy topic in itself. And then we have sexuality, which is another huge topic. All these topics in here. We also have sexual exploitation, you know, where you, you know, these are all huge topics.

4:24:59 And this lady, this author, just kind of goes, boom, boom, boom. Did this, was this a successful publication? No, I mean, not commercially, I don't believe. I didn't see anything is completely unhinged for someone who probably has no business writing about this. Well, like the lady said, boom, boom, boom. She was triggered after triggering. Let me just throw all this triggering information into this book, race and deafness. I mean, she hit all the intersectionalities. Right? You know, I got. got my disabled, okay, check, deaf, race, check,

4:25:40 no, femininity, check. It's almost like that picture on the annual report of the intelligence community that's been going around. Did you see that? Oh, no. I haven't seen it. Oh, they took this picture from Shutterstock and they, and, you know, it was like a United Colors of Benetton. And they threw in all that. They threw in the cute lady with the laptop in the wheelchair and the blind guy with the cane and the dog. It was all Photoshopped. It was all stock. But no, this is our intelligence community. That's that's exactly what's going on here. It's just we need to throw everything into a pot, but I just wanted to play that to see how it's being received by the target target audience.

4:26:23 And it's like, no, that doesn't. You don't even, it doesn't make any sense. But I think Caitlin Greenwich is just a pen, you know, and she's playing the role of Miss Ann. But since we're talking about Massage Noir, we have to go back and see who originated. And the originator of it is Moira Bailey. I'm also really curious and interested in the things that people create for themselves, projects where people are developing their own social media platforms outside of what is provided us,

4:27:02 moving away from even kind of, I wouldn't say reverting to, but using dialogue. Hold on. Yes. I know she's pushing your OTG, but don't fall for it. I know she's dissing you. Alongside what we imagine in digital spaces. And also slowing down and getting back to technologies that have served us well in a world that wasn't so dominated by capitalism.

4:27:39 Using tools and black women are using tools towards be it revolution or liberation or justice when those tools were never intended for those uses. Like they weren't created for that, which to me would beg the question then. Audrey Lorde's famous quote regarding the master's tools. Is that obsolete? Have you like stepped into like some radical reimagination? I talk about something I call digital alchemy, which is to me that process of BIPOC folks, specifically black women, using the tools, the platforms that have been provided and then using them in a way that they were never

4:28:30 intended. Oh man, who is this? I'm, oh, look, I'm cool. Oh, digital alchemy, baby. That's what I'm saying. Some digital alchemy. This is beautiful. Oh, man. And I'm looking at her own website, which is just, oh. Yeah. And the thing is, they really think they can take master's tools and tear down his own house with it. Now, if you look at it like this, listen to this. This is her pitch to speak at your institution or event.

4:29:10 This is how she makes money. She's well versed in the following topical areas. Ready for your intersectionality? Feminism, disability studies, history of medicine, digital humanities, social media, social justice, student activism, race, gender, sexuality, queer theory, and pop culture. It's like a smorgasbord of delight. Yeah, and she attended Spelman College where she got an undergraduate degree. And then she went to Emory University where she got a PhD for women, gender, and sexuality studies. Yeah. And she's currently assistant professor at the Department of Culture, Society, and Global Studies.

4:29:53 And at Northwestern, yes. And she coined the term massage noir in 2008. But the bigger thing is this digital alchemy. Digital alchemy and the attack on capitalism. She made it very clear. So now you think I'm crazy when I say they're communists or they're Marxists. No, they make it very clear what their target is. Yeah, most people just don't know what it means. Don't really understand communism, Marxism, socialism historically. Right. I mean, but that's not the way they mean. It's like when we we talk about critical race theory, most people to think you're talking about the book or the class that was taught, I think, at Harvard.

4:30:37 No, they're talking about victimization mentality is what they're pushing. Yeah, just under the name of critical race theory. So, what we have to do is make them define their terms. And now you see what she means. And she's saying, Well, we can use their systems to tear down, you know, no, that's not how it works. And that's why you're so hard at work at building our own tools to compete because you understand why I said, Hold on, I know you she asked you when it's like, We're gonna build our own because it sounds so good. Yeah, it does until you start talking about tearing down capitalism. And I know people get frustrated, like, well, you know, um, we come from a

4:31:17 communist or Marxist society in Africa. I'm like, I think more people own more cows than other people, and that's how wealth was established. So, miss me with that as well. It's all this hodgepodge bull crap they throw together, and it really is just alchemy, it's ways of controlling, and which in turn is witchcraft. But we can continue on with uh digital alchemy too. I talk about something I call digital alchemy, which is to me that process of BIPOC folks, specifically black women, using the tools, the platforms that have been provided, and then

4:31:56 using them in a way that they were never intended. So, really disrupting the expectations of a platform like Twitter and a platform like Facebook to do something else. But I don't know that that is always a generative practice. Sometimes I feel like it is coming from a place of reaction, so it is in response to some violence that has occurred, and it is speaking to the moment and using that tool. But generative digital alchemy is something I would set apart and say, But there's potential for something else, and it's less about.

4:32:40 I do think that Audrey Lord is exactly right, and in that context, she was thinking specifically about what's happening in the academy. You know, do we imagine that getting imbricated into this system and this institution that we know is so harmful that we can actually disrupt it, dismantle it, undo the institution, and make it into something else? And I don't think that that is true. I think she's absolutely right that the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. I do think that what digital alchemy perhaps offers is an opportunity to build a new house with new tools, and that we need to do that work of building

4:33:27 new tools. And some of that work happens through trying the tools that are available to us and realizing that they don't work in the ways that we want them to. It's very, it doesn't happen often, but it's very taxing to listen to her. It is because it's just gobbledygook. Yeah, it's let me let me let me let me more baby. Come here, let me talk to you for a minute. Look at Angela Stanton King, that's disrupting. Whenever you make a big enough stink, they will de-platform you, right? Look at any other person that says anything about the

4:34:13 Rona or any other thing that's not to be talked about, they will get you up off of this. So, the fact that they allow you to still be there on their platform. And not only that, but they bring you in to give you banners, and YouTube gives you money to push your agenda. That means you're working with the white supremacists, aka the one world government, aka the globalists, baby. Okay, so you're saying, So, you think you're going to build something without us? It's not going to happen. Wow, that's some massage noir right there, Mr. Mofax. I heard it. Well, if you ask me, can men build something without women, a culture of society?

4:34:56 No, we can't. We're a package deal, and that's why it's so frustrating to me because it's like stop manipulating your own sisters into believing that if they don't believe what you believe, they lack confidence and audacity. And they're, and I said this before, I kind of got cut off that there is an equivalent to a female to a coon for women. This is why women are so quiet. I don't know what you call. call it. Some people call it pick me's, but they call it what pick me's. So, it's basically like men that say, Yeah, like, yeah, women like pick me, pick me. Yeah, oh, hold on a second.

4:35:35 I didn't know a coon can't be a woman, can only be a man. No, what I'm saying is the track, you know, a coon goes across the racial line, you're trading across the racial line. Okay, the equivalent would be the uh the quit. What's the equivalent of a coon across the gender line? So, you know, you're supposed to uphold you're working with the other side, basically. You know, it's the same way like coons are seen as black people working with white people to bring other white black people down. Okay, oh, I see. It's the equivalent of women working with men that's supposedly bringing down feminists, and this is why the women that really need to be have the voice and really that shape society need to give have their voices amplified. We can't give you a voice, lady.

4:36:21 You know what I'm saying? We can't speak for you because when we do, we're seeing these hateful men. Uh, what I'm saying is, but we got your back. Don't ever doubt it. I mean, I have to say this to my wife all the time. It's just like, well, I can't say that, really. It's like, what? You can't say what you know. This has been one of the uh, this has actually been a very challenging episode for me. And I'm saying bringing this up now because I know the last two clips are going to blow my head, and it's like a blank brain matter splattering on the wall. So, I might as well get it out now. Uh, because this is really about the relationship between black men and black women today. No, it's not. Well, that nasty wait, wait, wait, but wait, okay, go ahead, go ahead, but I just want to go ahead, go ahead.

4:37:03 With the lesson that it's just you first, no, it's bigger than that. The reason why I say that the reason why I pushed back against that, I should let you finish, but so I apologize for that. But the reason why I pushed back against that because this is for women to support women. See, men, you are already doing the work, we're already in line. You see what I'm saying? As far as men across the racial line, you know, saying down the other divide, if that makes sense. But women are scared to say, you know, that's not right. You see how black conservative women, you see, how conservative women in general are treated.

4:37:46 Well, you know what's conservative women. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying. Yes. So the worst part of this is white women are only enhancing this issue out of fear. Fear? Yeah, fear. And desperately wanting to fit in. So if you know, if the amount of times I have to hear yas queen from white women, you know, and I'm looking at it like, I'll just say it to you. I think Lizzo is not healthy. You know, I think it's not just big bones. There's something unhealthy there. And if anyone just can keep saying, oh, it's great.

4:38:28 It's fantastic. It's just simply not true. And she's a perfect representation for the problem. Mainstream media knows you can't continue on this way or you're going to have problems down the line. You know, say just metaphorically, this is not getting to health, right? But if you continue on this manner, you're going to have problems down the line. But no, what they say is, great job, Lizzo. You know what I'm saying? Oh, you're perfect. You're perfect. And the reason why this is a bigger issue because this conversation has to be had between women,

4:39:08 there has to be a counterpart podcast to Mo Facts Adam Curry with two women having a conversation. Yeah. Hallelujah. And I will gladly produce it. Right. Because the thing is, is there's certain things that we can't even discuss. And maybe that's why I feel uncomfortable about a lot of that. Uncomfortable. Why it's this is different for me because there is a lot that neither you or I know about women because we're not. Hell, I made the episode. So now you see why I was like, oh, can't say that. It was self-serious. I was becoming victim to respectability politics. Yes. Like, oh, I can't say that. And then I was like, no, I'm not self-censoring myself.

4:39:48 And you go through this whole process of, can I say that? But at the end of the day, what we have to do is say, you know what? This is how I feel. Now, other people may feel like me as well. But what we're being told is your feelings don't matter if they online to the mainstream narrative. Right. And that's where the problem comes in. Because this is a hell that most women are living in. As the lady said in the Audacity clip, it's a traumatic decision they have to make. make. But what we can say is that you can have both be a mother and be, you know, be a

4:40:28 earner because there's new possibilities. Start a podcast, start a small business. There's all kinds of things that women can do. But they're given the binary choice. See, this binary choice is mainstream. Yeah. You say what? Yeah. The binary choice is given to them by women. Yes. And that's why we got to say, no, you can do whatever you want to do as far as you can have kids and a business. Now, we won't, you know, saying you won't have a career as far as going up the corporate ladder, but who the hell wants that in the first place? That's what we're trying to say. Like, you're free. And I had to say this to my wife all the time.

4:41:08 Like, do you not realize that I do what I have to do? You do what you want to do. That's the greatest gift I could give you. And that's the greatest gift a man can give any woman is the ability to do what she wants to do. And how does that go over? When you say it's just what I say, though, you say it just like that. You say, hey, do you realize that you can do what you want to do because I have to do? Yes. I'm just asking, how does that go? She says, yeah, that's how does that go over? She realizes it, but then you have to operate in society. And it's like, oh, people.

4:41:49 And it's so rude. I know we're going long, but it's so rude when women say this. You ask a woman like, what do you do? It's like, I'm a mother and I, you know, stay-at-home mom or whatever. Oh, you get like this empty O. It's like, what do you mean, empty? Oh, that's the most important job you could ever do is raise the next society. And honestly, women, this is your power because you can correct all the bad behaviors. That's right. At the source of the problem, it's like, oh, your daddy sucked at that. So let me go ahead and not in it. And you know what I'm saying? Like, let me go ahead and show you the right way to do that. Or you know what I'm saying? That kind of thing. But what happens is there's no balance anymore.

4:42:28 Yeah. So, I mean, I just say that because I had to make these episodes because we're going to be all right because, you know, we can defend ourselves. And really, once you get as an old man, me being 49, I don't give a rat's ass what most people think. I mean, just be honest with you. I mean, that's a luxury. I just want to give that luxury to women as well. All right. And ain't nobody going to mess with you. Trust me. Trust me. But let's go ahead and get into what digital alchemy is. So what if you are the first generation to live beyond your lifetimes?

4:43:12 Alchemists are people who turn raw material into gold. For centuries, alchemists have searched for the secret of eternal life. This desire, no matter how powerful for immortality, has always just remained out of reach. Who could blame them for searching? Who here among you at some point in your life has desired to be younger? You see it all around you. Everywhere you look, what do you see?

4:43:51 This product, you know, make you look younger. This one, you're going to live longer. Be a better lover. Be a better person. I mean, come on. These are the messages we see everywhere, right? And it's not just a modern obsession. As a species, we've always sought to transcend our physical bodies. And each generation has created alchemists, the artists, the inventors, the innovators, who have used the cutting-edge technology of their age to create images of ourselves that somehow capture and preserve our essence. But not all of the technologies have stood the test of time.

4:44:33 Wow. And it is, yeah, I mean, I know exactly what you're pointing out here. And it is women. You know, that I said to Tina the other day, I don't think there's a single picture that has been posted of you, or maybe even on your phone, where you haven't retouched something. Yeah. I'm mixed on makeup. I'm mixed. The reason why is if it's healthy, if it's coming from a place of healthiness, I'm okay with it. But if it's becoming a mask, that's where the issue comes in. But all women like to look beautiful. But I'm talking about the digital version of that.

4:45:15 right. Just look at what women do. I know because I'm a perfect Instagram husband. Because I take the picture, I know what they want. Okay, here it is. And then, you know, look around. They're like, okay, yeah. Everyone happy with their smile? Yeah. Okay. All right. Don't worry about it. I'll just give you the wipe away some wrinkles and whiten the teeth a little bit. And then it goes. And it's good. This is beyond makeup. And that's where it's not fair at because, as with men, our ability to provide is how we judge ourselves, right? How much gain we can bring back from the hunt. I mean, that's baked in this, you know what I'm saying?

4:45:57 Hard baked in this for thousands, thousands of years. Where women, they're, and I can only speak from what I understand. I can't speak from a place of being a woman, but to me, being needed, as far as that's being attractive or, you know, a mother sense of being needed, that's how they value themselves. And it is what it is. That's also been that's historically been going on for a long time. Right. Look at flowers. I mean, flowers are beautiful colors, but why? Because you need, they need to be that way.

4:46:34 Do biology to attract. Exactly. So, I mean, I understand where it goes, but what we have to do is we have to set healthy expectations. And a mature mind can deal with that. But you're talking about letting children, and I say children, 14, 15, 16-year-old girls, if they start out like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's bad. Then you, then you don't get, you have no self-worth. It's very destructive. And particularly girls. And look at the cutting and suicide rate of young girls, young women. And that's where it really becomes a problem.

4:47:15 And it gets worse when you listen to this second part of this digital alchemy clip. Motion picture technology captured Chaplin's image and projected him around the world for millions of people to see. More people than he could have ever met in person. Now, 40 years after his death, we still recognize this image. But we may be the last generation to do so. Why? It's because his image and relevancy has been set by a 20th century technology.

4:47:52 So, as 21st century alchemists, what is the cutting-edge technology today, and what does it allow us to do that was not possible before? Well, what if you could stay forever young? This is not a photograph, this is a 3D computer-generated avatar. Okay, it's what we call maximum resolution. We have stopped time and reversed the aging process. Okay, not only can we record the way the surface of your skin looks, we're able to record and calibrate how your muscles move underneath your skin.

4:48:38 So that way, your digital avatar can perform exactly the way you do. This is actress Fan Bing Bing. She's the most famous person in China. Okay, perhaps one of the most recognized faces on this planet. And she's an early adopter of new media. She understands the power of having a 3D digital avatar that can speak to younger generations. Okay. So basically, the way this work plays out is the same way that flappers use makeup

4:49:20 to enhance their beauty and escape what they perceived as oppression. The future will be you will be your avatar. You're talking about wiping and swiping and taking no. You can be this perfect being inside the Matrix. And I know that sounds crazy. No, no, no. It doesn't. No, no, no. No, it doesn't. And I'll tell you why. What I just said, people already are perfect within the Matrix. The Matrix, let's make the Matrix Instagram for a second. TikTok is next. But the way people portray themselves, women in particular, that's what Instagram is for, is completely an avatar.

4:50:04 It is no longer reality. Everything is. I've seen the apps. The apps are amazing. Wow, that was good. Yeah, cool. Boom, done. And by the way, whenever we're, it's two of us in the photo, I said, make sure you give me a little smudge there on the wrinkles. So it's already here. It's already here. It's just getting more sophisticated. That's why Facebook bought Oculus. It's all coming, I'm sure. And then it's going to be like, why you're here? Why don't you just stay in the Matrix? Might well just live here. I mean, you're perfect in it, right? Again, I think there's a lot of candidates who are primed and ready for it. They're already pretty much living it.

4:50:47 And that's where we're in dangerous territory because where all this rubber meets the road, that is, if we all adopt to live in the Matrix, then they can turn off who they want to turn off. Again, you're spot on because it's happening. We are in the Matrix with Training Wheels, I guess, is a good way, is an analogy. Yeah, because I mean, you know how it goes, augmented reality, then you know what I'm saying, virtual reality, and then they say, you know what, give up reality all into itself. Reality is so constricting. Just, you know, just tap in. You know, you can work, go, go to work, go to your little

4:51:30 online office, you're avataring on online dates. I mean, we saw demolition, man. We know how this goes. Well, not just that. We also witnessed Second Life. There were problems, which is, you know, there were scaling problems. Oh, I was in there a lot too. I mean, I understand that feeling. I was like, oh, wow, that's kind of interesting. And it's very surreal. And you get, I mean, video games. I'm not a gamer, so I can't really speak with any authority, but I know it's bigger than the movie industry. So, you know, and the immersiveness is real. Yes. So, I mean, that's all I'm just saying is I just wanted to wrap it, wrap up this two-part show.

4:52:12 Are you totally depressing me? Thank you. No, no, no, because what you're doing is, hey, we're not going to play on y'all's terms. And that's why that's why Podcasting 2.0 and any other new technology. Because I know, even with this show, as it gets big enough, I know people are like, well, Mo, you're on YouTube for now. Yeah. For now, I mean, I know how this goes. I mean, once you start drawing enough looks and likes and views, they're like, who is this guy? Well, I'll say one thing. I don't take any money from YouTube. I just use it because it's the eyeball, the mall of eyeballs.

4:52:50 So, I mean, it used to draw more people into what we're doing here. But it's now never been under the notion that we can build something meaningful on YouTube. It's not going to happen because when you start stepping on toes, the same message I gave to Moya, I give to myself. Now, you can't tear down their system on their system. Well, I appreciate you as a partner in building the new systems. We're all in on Podcasting 2.0 here on MoFax. We'll gladly take your sats. Because you get it, man. You really do. It's just very scary. It's just, it's kind of

4:53:33 when I think about what we're doing. And here's the thing that is also bothersome. Podcasting 2.0, 99.9% men who are in this project. Now it's open source. Anyone can join. You know, there's a clear imbalance there. And we're clearly missing something. But where is it? I think we got to bust some people out of the old, of the, of the Matrix. If you build it, they would come. And I know that sounds very cliche, but that's what we do, right? We build the things and then women flesh it out.

4:54:14 We build a house and they make it a home. It's going to be the same way. It's going to be the same way. I like that. Yeah. So true. So true. So, I mean, when they built Instagram and Twitter, they didn't think of it being like this. When they made those filters, they didn't think about it being like that. Oh, you could do that with it. Yeah, but I am pretty sure that a lot of the social networks, there were people who understood the psychology and you can even hear them saying, oh, this is a flaw in human behavior. We know how to hack it. We know how to take advantage of it. And you just build upon that. And then the profits kick in. You just do more of that because more of that works. And the original thinking behind it is even lost to some degree.

4:54:57 But it's there. That's so very true. Very destructive. That's so very true. But at the end of the day, humans will always win when we. we deal in humanity. So that's the main thing. We have to stay dealing in humanity. We need to stay on humanized people. Hopefully, when I make these shows, I don't make anybody the bad guy, the good guy. I just have to give my perspective on how these things work and how they impact my life. When you hear these shows, this is how these things land in my circle. It's like, I live and let live. But when you start affecting me and mine, then I have to stand up and say something. But there's certain fights I can't fight. So we have to have, you know, other people jump in and

4:55:41 take on the battle for us. Mo, I appreciate this so much. This is one of our longer episodes, but I think there was no way to make it any shorter, the way you put it all together. I mean, what makes it long is me button in and trying to get clarification, but it because it could probably be a four-hour show. We have to have that, though, because we just don't accept things as I put them, and I just don't accept things as you put them. We push back, and then we get a good place, you know, to agreement when we do that. So, and I love doing it, man. Let's try and get one done a little sooner on both our accounts for the next one.

4:56:24 I will do that. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. Mo, thank you so much. This has been great. And if you'd like to support MoFax with Adam Curry, go to mofax.com and help us out or boost us with Podcasting 2.0. Mo, I can't wait until next time, brother. All right, see you then, Adam. Take care, everybody. We'll see you next time on MoFax with Adam Curry. Soon we'll be done. Trouble of the world.

4:57:07 Trouble of the world. Trouble of the world. Soon we'll be done. Trouble of the world. Going home to leave. Soon we'll be done. Trouble.

4:57:55 Trouble of the world. Trouble, Lord, of this world.