Talking Powerfully To Your Wife, Kids Or Ex with Tracy Poizner

00:00 In this episode of the Team Super Dad podcast, we talk about how to talk about your ex to your kids and how to talk to your ex without it being a fight or loss of your dad power. Whoa, that's a lot of talking. It's an awesome conversation for dads in a relationship or out. Roll theme. Welcome to Team Super Dad. Real dads creating their best lives ever. More time, more money, more fun. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad. Hey, Super Dads. Good to have you here. If you've been with us for a while, then of course great to see you back.

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01:24 No, I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, that's some idea of what we believe and what we get up to. It's been an awesome week here as I launch the focused and happy dad challenge. It's still happening. So if you want to come over and join that, then go to teamsuperdad.com forward slash happy dad. We will be absolutely thrilled to have you on board. It's totally free. It's a free challenge. Of course, that's an introduction to the other work. It's really a great course, great set of live streams. It's nothing more than a kickstart, really, but a really powerful way to check in on your habits and routines, reveal your superpowers, set some goals and ambitions, and basically communicate better with the people you love and have more fun in your life, which is everything we're up to.

02:14 So today's chat, today's conversation, Tracy Poisner, you're going to hear all about her when we get started, but a coach from Canada who works with blended families, stepmoms and dads who are divorced and now with someone new. So how they negotiate and manage their children's relationship with their new partner and how they manage their ex and how she's reacting about having a new partner. If you're a dad who's still in a relationship, then don't turn off, okay? This should give you some insight into whether it's actually worth breaking up, you know? Like, seriously, if you can fix a good relationship, that's way better than breaking up because it ain't easy on the other side.

02:58 And if you're a dad who's really worried about how this is going to go, if you're thinking about separating or you just recently separated, then take comfort from this conversation because, you know, there'll be some tough times. But coming out the other side, when you play the long game, when you get really connected to who you are and what life's about for you, when you stand your ground and feel powerful in you, like in getting to know yourself again and loving life, then really it's the future you desire. It's everything that I speak about. And Tracy's got such a lovely presence to her. So calm and it's a good conversation, right? As always, it's the same kind of length.

03:40 That's because it's a lot to get through, a lot to understand and piece together. So stick with us to the end. I'd love to see you on the other side of this conversation with Tracy Poisner. Undeletable dads. Let's go. Welcome to the Team Super Dad podcast. As you can see, we have with us Tracy Poisner, who up until two seconds ago was dancing to the theme channel. I totally love your themes. That's good. I'm just editing at the moment, basically. I'm going to make the voice a bit more British, a bit more, you know, because I got it made about two years ago and it was kind of quick.

04:24 And I knew this guy. He's on fiber. But anyway, it's obviously very American, which I quite like. We have listeners all around the world. Yeah, nice. And obviously you're not from the British Islands. You are over in Canada. I'm from Welsh. I'm from Canada. Canada. Oh, Canada. And are you actually, are you sort of East Coast, Quebec sort of like type of people? No, middle. I'm a little bit west of Toronto. So this is more or less central Canada. Okay. Okay. Well. before we jabber-jabber, we're going to get on with the introductions.

05:03 I was introduced to Tracy after being on the Nacho Kids podcast with Laurie Sims, which, if you if you are into or you are part of a blended family, a stepmom, a stepdad, then be sure to check out the Nacho Kids podcast. But also, that's how Tracy and I got introduced to each other because Tracy works with stepmoms and she's also creating a very nice set of content and support for dads as well, for stepdads or dads who are separated. Not stepdads. Oh, not stepdads. Okay, sorry. But dads who are separated. Good. Tracy, well, why don't I leave your introduction to you? Like, have I missed anything else? Tell us about yourself. No, I

05:51 don't work with stepdads actually. And that's a funny little thing because most people make that same mistake, you know. She works with stepmoms and stepdads. No, I don't. I work with all the people in the same household, the stepmoms and the men who they're married to. Yeah, okay. It's a very, very, very different vibe what happens in the other household. And I don't know anything about it because, I mean, I am a mom and my husband is also a stepdad to my daughter, I suppose, but we never lived together while she was still, you know, a kid in the household.

06:30 And my divorce was relatively amicable, and we certainly never had any kind of difficulties co-parenting. I mean, I essentially did everything, and he was there, and we had an, you know, she visited him often, whatever, but I had no drama. There was no drama there. I have no personal experience in solving the problems that happen in that dynamic with a biological mom and a stepdad in the family. That was like that was dead easy for me. The issues were in my second marriage with my husband, who has three kids.

07:09 And so, like, I'm the stepmom of them. And it's been a great deal of to get to where we are now. Like, almost 15 years later, we've been through all of the possible things that can go wrong, literally. And my background is in natural health. I'm a homeopath, actually. Okay. I've been doing that for over 20 years. And I have had like 25 years until the present moment of training in human psychology and child development and family dynamics. All of that is extremely important to the work that I do as a homeopath.

07:52 So I had an incredible wealth of knowledge to draw on, you know, to help in my own circumstances. And at a certain moment, I thought, God, what do people do who don't understand what's happening because they don't have a bigger context for this? Like, what do they do? Where do they start? I mean, never mind all the remedies that I have for helping people through emotional turmoil, whatever. So I initially got into working with the stepmoms like almost four years ago now. I, in an online, I made a Facebook group and I, you know,

08:34 and over that time, it slowly became obvious to me that a lot of the problems these women were having were really problems that belong to the dad in a really fundamental way. They're his, these are his children. And the conflicts that they're having around parenting and around, you know, loyalty conflict and parental alienation, those things belong to him. And I could explain to the partner of that dad, I could explain what's happening and how she can think about it in a better way and how she can take care of herself through all this turmoil. But really, the dad is like twisting in the wind here. And, you know, he doesn't know what to do.

09:19 So I've really narrowed down the focus of my work to help dads who are stuck in post-divorce conflict and they just don't know how to parent in that environment. And nobody can blame them because there's really nothing about regular parenting that applies until you've sorted some things out. You know, they're scared of losing their kids. As you said, that's on the table all the time. And, you know, they've sort of been knocked off their dad pedestal in a way because. very often mom is undermining the ex is undermining their parenting.

10:01 And they're also so disrespected by society in general. Yes. As single dads, you know, a while ago, I did a piece and an interview about the four archetypes as I see them: the single mom, the single dad, the stepmom, and the stepdad. So the single mom is basically a saint, you know, in society. I mean, a single mom is a saintly person doing her best. She works so hard. She's managed. She's fought through. Look how well she's done. And the single dad, the divorced dad, is basically a deadbeat unless he proves otherwise, you know?

10:41 And the stepmom is also at a tremendous disadvantage because she is the Jezebel who split up this family. It doesn't matter if she met the guy five years later. She is forever considered potentially the woman who broke up the family and caused this deadbeat to leave his perfectly nice wife. And the stepdad is a kind of hero who walks in and helps saintly single mother. You know, he's going to raise someone else's child because Deadbeat has walked away from the family. So those are archetypes that we live with. And you basically have to prove that you're not that awful person.

11:24 Yeah. And it's crazy how that is pretty much perpetuated around the world. It crosses cultural boundaries. And I guess it, you know, historically, if you're going to go down a historical kind of cliché, sort of women stay at home. And it's not even cliche, but it's real, isn't it? Women stay at home, work, clean, cook, make babies. That is their responsibility and job. And then certainly men have played their part in this story over the years of getting drunk in the pub and coming home and expecting dinner and sex and, you know, and not lifting a finger to help around anywhere.

12:06 But, you know, post-war into 70s, 80s, you know, TV probably changing the way that families looked, the rise of equality and women's rights and basically obvious things like, I've got a daughter. I don't ever want her to experience not being able to have something, do something, or be something because she's a woman. But it's kind of swung so far the other way now that boys are growing up with no idea of what they're allowed to be, say, do. And if you and if, and blind me, dare get it wrong,

12:47 you're the teenage boy who's a sex pest or something like that. And I do get, you know, girls, I had this conversation a while back about girls getting their skirts lifted up and things like that. And, you know, okay, so there's so much to this. But as you said, in terms of media and movie portrayal and all those kind of things, the men get a rough deal in this kind of post-breakup picture that you've just painted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, I've gotten so much fulfillment, really, from working with dads about this. And

13:30 I think that, you know, part of what I'm offering that is not, that I don't hear being talked about in the public discourse anyway, is that dads are actually at a certain advantage in terms of the normal development of kids, you know, after this kind of breakup, because the, you know, I talk about the mother function and the father function, and I really want it understood that I'm not necessarily talking about men and women, but because in reality, both parents are fulfilling both functions. But the mother function is more about the nurture of

14:14 the family and the close home life and the hearth, you know, the nuclear family and bringing the child into safety and security in this cocooned environment. And dad is really about leading the kids out into the broader world and issues of charisma and competition and achievement and courage, you know, those are things that belong to the father function. And once again, you know, mother and father both do those things, but in general, general, kids have an inner directive to be more connected to their dad as they go along, as they come closer to adulthood.

15:00 And in our society, you know, we're talking about like until 25, right? Like kids are not really, lots of kids are still at home and not fully fledged adults until they're in their mid-20s. So dad has an opportunity to become a more influential person in his kids' lives as they go along. But he needs to play it smart because he needs to get back up on that pedestal and become, find a new way to become a leader for his kids and not, you know, the authoritarian figure who they're going to

15:39 reject or who mom is going to complain about or mom is going to undermine that parenting. And who probably, frankly, they don't even really want to parent that way. But the other side of the pendulum, if you will, is the total pushover who can't hold any solid limits for his kids because they're going to just say, you know what? We like, I don't accept that. That's not the answer I wanted. And I'm going back to moms and I don't want to come here anymore. Which is ultimately what the dad absolutely fears. So he's going to avoid doing those things. Okay, great. So we've set that's a perfect setup for this whole conversation, right? I,

16:20 if anyone's listening, of course, they're going to be listening on the podcast. Thank you. People who are watching on the live stream, please share this, tag people in. We've got the comments live on the live stream. If you want anything to say, we can see that coming in, and Tracy and I can cover those comments or questions off. If you're watching on the replay, then give us a hashtag replay. That will spin this around to other people. And if you're listening on the podcast, then please like and review us, share this around. And Tracy, I like to do this increasingly. If people are interested in everything you've got to say, rather than leave this till the end, I know you've got a great e-book about the five love languages for kids, and you've got another e-book in support of dads going through this situation.

17:05 Let's tell people where they can get those things right up front. So we give them maximum value as well. Sure. I do have a Facebook group for dads called One for the Dads. So you just have to go to Facebook and search on One for the Dads and make a join request. And you can get to a website page I have through bit.ly slash undeletable dad. That's bit.ly slash undeletable dad. That will point you to that. And the link to the face, the link of the Facebook group is actually on that. Oh, that's okay, great. Yeah. I know it's on there because that's how I got there. But let me put the old HTTP.

17:50 Yeah, I have to be clear about the love languages is totally not my thing, right? That's a very famous book by Gary Chapman, but I've just explored how to use that, how to use that concept, those five love languages, as part of a larger concept that I work with. It's something that I've created called restorative parenting to use, let's say, non-verbal communication to restore these ties and bonds that dad should be able to have with his kids. And I love that book. I love the adult one. I love the love the kids one.

18:35 And it's, you know, yeah, it's a great sort of accompanying guide you put together there to help people who've read the five love languages be like, oh, that's how I can apply that with my kids. So that's a great thing to do as well. Brilliant. Well, listen, I put a couple of your links and things in the live chat right now. And in the show notes for our podcast listeners, all this will be in the show notes. So you can go over and find out about Tracy's different communities and different ways you can work with her. So, right, let's try and put this into some kind of order, okay? We've got, we've got the breakup first, right? So let's, let's, we're going to, I think it would be a good idea.

19:19 We can talk about the breakup. And look, before any dads that are still happily in their relationship turn off, please don't because I have learned so much in my breakup and the recovery from that breakup, I've learned so much about how I could have been a better husband, how I could have let things go, how I could have, even on practical terms, how I could have appreciated. appreciated time better and said yes more often to my kids' requests. Because when you're broken up, suddenly at the very best, you've got half the possible time with your kids, right?

19:56 So if you're still in the relationship, then great. But my commitment to dads is that they make their relationships as healthy as possible, like living the life they desire, not the life they feel stuck in, and exiting a relationship well, if it's really not working out well in a way that both people feel respected and supported, and that you can create an effective co-parenting arrangement afterwards. So, yes, anyone, whether in a relationship or not in a relationship, please hang in there because this is going to be a great conversation. So, Tracy, we're going to talk about the breakup first and the kind of struggle and the and what goes on for dads in that part there.

20:35 I read in your in your in your kind of on the on your landing page stuff about how we take some of the flame and the fire and the and the the conflict out of those those early early times which is something I can very much relate to um and then obviously then in the context of everything you've just said we're kind of going to wander into the situation where we're creating a new relationship and suddenly we've got a step mom that's a nice to be in that relationship but how are we going to have our kids relate to her well and then how are we going to manage our ex-wife or partner and the relationship with our kids that sound like a good way to go about this yeah sure

21:15 perfect perfect so the breakup right the breakup leaves men i mean obviously people break up for all sorts of reasons right but most breakups don't happen overnight there's been some sort of slow degeneration of the of the relationship so men are left and no doubt women are as well right but men are left pretty hollow as a result of as a result of it even affairs unless someone's a real player most men have an affair because they're upset about how they're married it's going they didn't intend to have an affair or upset someone in my experience um so men are left pretty broken and then rejected and angry which is no way to go into a resolution conversation

22:02 what what do you say to how do you try and calm men down at that sort of time how how do you help them become um more peaceful and effective at that in that time well um i think it's uh you know it's and you can ask that in any way you want you can spin the question same answer as what i tell them later on which is focusing on yourself excuse me and it's really easy to

22:38 like displace your your grief your your shame about the you know that's something that i've really come into from talking with dads for my podcast is the the incredible shame and embarrassment that so many guys feel about having failed at this family project having failed at a marriage it doesn't even matter if who who decided to leave like the the project was a failure and um they are acutely aware of how other people see them and of having

23:18 you know as one guy who i interviewed said you know like like this happened you know three or four years after the marriage that i invited you to like i invited all these people to my marriage and they bought into it with me and they got us marriage presents and accepted her into their circles and then it didn't work out and i had to go to them and tell them that like you know they believed in me and i didn't deliver and that's that's really hard you know i think a lot of guys have a lot of of pride in who they are and so they should and this is a really profoundly wounding event so it's really important to

24:02 to focus inward and not i mean not to beat yourself up but to to to work through those feelings and not to just be angry and to project everything outward and to say like i'm so angry maybe i'm angry at myself but i'm going to be angry at her or i'm going to be angry at her family or her friends i'm going to be angry at the court system um you know i would i would tell them to do whatever they can to try to stay focused on their desired outcome like what is it that you want you know you want

24:41 mostly they really want to protect their relationship with their kids. That's the thing that's so important, which is also why the ex has such an opportunity to wound him in that exact spot because she doesn't care about the other stuff that he doesn't care about. She's also wants to hurt him, and uh, that's that's the place that is so wounding, you know. So, I would just say to remember that the way I look at it, I don't think either parent has necessarily has legal rights.

25:17 I mean, you do have rights, of course, but but like according to the universe, you don't have rights with respect to your kids, your children have rights with respect to you. So, your children have a right to be in relationship with both of their parents, that is their birthright, and you are an advocate for your children's rights, you're not advocating for your own right as a father to have X amount of time with your children or whatever. Like, that's where you get into fighting with kids as if they were chattel and they're not. You are just advocating for what is in the best interest of your kids and not for your own,

26:00 you know, to vindicate yourself in some way or to, you know, to uphold your own rights as a father, because that's a weird, slippery concept for me. Yeah, totally. And I think people can access that through language. You know, you get legal advice or you get support from friends who've been through it before and say, Oh, well, don't always talk about our children. Always talk about what's in the children's interests or what works for the children. And you can, when you first hear that, you can be like, Wow, you know, you even react to that. Yeah, and that's that's where you that's that's an access for men to realize, oh, blind me, okay, I'm still really angry about that.

26:44 And no amount of anger in this situation is actually going to help because she's going to do stuff, you're going to get letters, you're going to be told you can't have this or you can't have that, or they want more of this, or they want more of that. And we can only be responsible for things that we can change. You actually put that in your landing page, and so much of what you put in there resonated with me. And when we can start to see that we okay, so what can I be responsible for here first and foremost? Because we can all take some responsibility, that can take the flame and heat out of a situation. And then trying to change things that aren't in our control only causes resistance from people.

27:23 Um, so what about the fear? You know, you've mentioned there the fear that men have in those moments. That fear feels quite real. And if you're in a legal situation, it can actually be quite real. How can they detach themselves like because they want their actions to be placid and forthright and kind of you know, decent, um, but at the same time, they're they're frightened and are ready to defend. How can those two things work together? Um, well, I think that you're right. You sort of said they're frightened and they want to defend, and the gesture is a kind of a you know, a fighting one, right?

28:05 Yeah, that it's a reflex action, I think, to um to fight to protect your kids. And I think that it's important to to turn it around and to protect your kids through the integrity of who you are and and to understand that they are going to be attracted to that energy of integrity, they will be. It just works every time, and you're like, we have to get away from the um

28:45 uh like cause and effect model of saying, or you know, like that every action has the consequence, and I need to, you know, you're you can't micromanage the consequences of every little thing. You have to be ready to stand in your place and know that this is a journey that you're on, and there's no way that you can lose your kids if you focus on you know increasing your own self-worth and increasing your integrity. Like it's just a very attractive thing, and they your kids are still in your

29:28 um orbit, you know, they're in your orbit and they're going to be attracted like gravity to you. just will be. So, the more you can stand in your integrity, um, and you know, that's whatever we call that, taking the high road or doing the right thing. And I'm not saying giving in and being a pushover because that's not the right solution, um, but just demonstrating the depth of who you are, getting in touch with that. That's something that we work on: is working on like who am I anyway? What's really important to me? What are the most important values or concepts that I live by?

30:12 Who would I'm not that anymore if I if I can't access that? And what do I want to transmit to my children? What is my job as a father? What do I feel that I've done my job if they come away from childhood and adolescence with this? And that that just resolves so much of it, yeah. And I can hear inside of that some dads going, Yeah, well, you don't understand. I haven't seen my kids for two years, she's a horrible person, and it's a complete, absolute effing nightmare. And, you know, I like to see that people can detach those two things.

30:53 You can carry on being dad, whether that means writing a diary or emailing them once a day into an account that they're going to get when they're 16 or putting a bit of money into something, that's it, buying presents that just sit there, you know, exactly. You've got it, you've got it exactly. You carry on being a dad and do all of those things, and you send registered mail packages to where they live, and um, you know, with a let's say details or photograph of what's inside, they are going to get this stuff eventually. You don't know how many stories I have of you know, um, guys who haven't had any word from their kids in five years or seven years, whatever.

31:37 And clearly, I don't wish for it to take that long, but the point is that it happens. Um, yeah, a friend of mine locally here has heard from her son for the first time in 10 years. There was not a word for 10 years, and they've just got back together. And like, it's a wretched ride. I'm not going to say that you're just supposed to sit back and say this is okay, you need a ton of support to keep yourself going, you know, to keep mentally resilient through that. It's very difficult, but these things do resolve.

32:13 The kids get older, they get out of the grip of that parent who's done that to them, and then typically they want a closer relationship with the parent that they haven't seen for a long time. Yeah, and you know, people's my situation, right? My, I'm not going to speak about my ex, particularly not in any bad ways, but we didn't agree about the time that we were going to have with our children, and all I wanted was like, I just want to share the kids. Like, if I can't be with her 100% of the time, I want to be there 50% of the time, and I don't see any just reason why that can't be the case. Now, for some people, there might be a just reason if they live 200 miles away, it's going to be very difficult for you to have them on a school night.

32:57 Um, so dads need to, whoever the parent is that in that way, need to just stay calm and see where they can make it work. Yeah, and you can make it work because you can learn how to maximize your influence and your impact in a minimum of time. Yeah, and there are lots of there, you know, that's a strategy for giving your kids what you want them to get from you. It's a strategy of how you know, a collection of tools and techniques that will maximize your influence on them in this minimum time.

33:38 And then you're getting what you want, which is to have this effect as a parent. And the kids are being much less caught in a struggle of in a struggle between the parents of how to divide the time, yeah, and sometimes even in a struggle of just making it work, this back and forth and the half-the-time stuff. You know, it's very hard on them. Yeah. So, so, Hugo, sort of shifting gears a little bit, what can you say about the kind of language that dads can use?

34:15 Sorry, my problem. Um, you know, in terms of talking about the other parent and, you know, what I know the answer to this, right? I mean, curious to hear you, you know, to have your voice on the subject for dads listening. in talking about that other, the other parent, how can they, how can they catch themselves so that they speak respectfully and in a way that the children don't feel, I don't know, like they're having to be made to take sides or something like that. Yeah, well, firstly, with awareness, obviously, you have to be aware of your own

34:55 thoughts and feelings that are going to drive your actions. You have to be responsible for kind of cleaning that up. You have to be aware that when you're talking to your child about their mother, you're talking to 50% of your child. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you have to remember that every cell of your child has half of mom in them. And whatever image they have of their mother is forming part of their self-image. And so when you know, if you put it the other way around, and mom is saying to her little boy, God, you're just like your father. You're dry, that drives me crazy. I hate when he does that, and I don't like it in you either.

35:39 He doesn't feel only bad for his dad. That's like you're talking about me. I am. Of course, I'm like my father. I'm proud to be like my father. And now I can't be because you don't like that. Yeah. And the same, I'm sorry to say, is true of the qualities or the way of thinking or the facial expressions of mom are part of who that child is. They have to feel proud of that. Otherwise, how can you walk around hating yourself? And lots of people do, right? Lots of kids of divorce walk around hating themselves because they are never 100% okay. Wherever they're standing, 50% of them is bad, right? Yeah.

36:24 That is so, that is, that is so powerful, Tracy, that everybody needs to really just hear that. Is that when you bad mouth your ex, you are directly causing your child to question them, their own existence, their own being, their own personality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that you just have to think of it in the reverse, like that if mom was subliminally saying, you know, um, oh, I don't know, like, oh, do you, are you going to start playing chess now? Like, are you sure you want to do that? Because, like, I don't really feel like that's a, you know, and he knows that chess is a big deal for dad.

37:08 And it's something that he wants to do it because dad is, you know, is an expert chess player and he admires that about him. And mom is like secretly saying, can't you do something better with your time? Go out and play with your friends. But, you know, she's like undermining something about the child that makes him feel good about himself. Yeah. And you also, you don't want to do that to your child. You don't want them to feel bad about themselves. And so this is a real moment of like personal growth for a dad or a mom to say, I have to become aware of how I am unconsciously guiding my child away from things that remind me, you know, from growing in a way where I

37:56 see the other parent blossoming in them and I'm trying to squash that. Or I'm actually just telling them out loud that don't say stuff like that. You remind me of your dad or of your mom or like your mom is feeding you lies. None of this is true. I pay her child support every month. I don't know why she tells you that I'm not paying. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't serve the child even to know that my mother is lying to me. That is not a kindness because the child isn't ready to hear those things. They depend on this other parent for their life. Like it's not like the kid lives at your house all the time.

38:37 They never have to see that woman. They have to go back and live with her. And now they have the impression that she could be lying to me about anything. I'm not safe there if my mother is a liar. Thank you, Tracy. You know, thank you. And I'm saying thank you because I work hard not to say anything disparaging about their mom. And, but I can see in what you're saying, even sometimes, you know, that, yeah, well, but is actually part of that. So we should all look one or two layers below what we're actually saying

39:23 to be responsible for that. Wow. So, yeah. yeah, this is a powerful conversation. I hope everyone's driving or cooking. I got another layer of this recently, another aspect of this recently, talking with David Sims, who's the husband of Laurie, who you I guess they were probably both on the podcast, eh? When you he wasn't available actually, I just delightful. I, yeah, I like both of them so much. But anyway, he came on my podcast and talked about his experience, which is they have an amazing, amazing story about their stepfamily. And, you know, so he was alone.

40:04 He, I, I think his wife left the marriage and left him with three boys, aged eight and nine, because they have triplets who were eight years old and a nine-year-old. It's really hard to imagine. But so I think the mom in the beginning days was not very involved and she would take them for one day every other weekend or something like that. It was very limited visiting. And so the kids, of course, had, you know, very mixed feelings about going to see their mom. They really wanted to see her, but it was also kind of a weird situation because she was never around. And they were little, you know, eight and nine years old. And he wanted to send them off with this kind of blanket of good feeling.

40:49 And so as he was driving them over there, he would be saying, I love you guys so much. I'm really going to miss you while you're gone. I can't wait for you to come back. And he realized later that that was probably not, you know, he was doing it from the best of intentions, but it was probably not at all helpful to leave his kids with the idea that he was not okay in some way while they were gone. Yes. I heard that in what you were saying a moment ago. Yeah. Yeah. So he said, I, you know, what I know now, I wouldn't do that again, even though like my feeling was, I want them to know as they go to their mom how much I love them.

41:31 But, you know, that's where we're sometimes coming from such a loving place, but it's still in some way you're undermining their experience of being with their mom because there's something in the back of their head saying, you know, dad's missing us. Yes. He can't wait for us to come back. He's on his own. We should be there with him. We're leaving him to go there. It's like it's confusing in a kid's mind. Yeah. Yeah. And just before we get into the blended family stuff, is there anything you can share on defusing some of the conflict that happens between a dad and his separated or estranged wife? Is that an expression? I think it's really important to put boundaries around it.

42:16 And that can be done in a variety of ways. But one really good way is to use a co-parenting, like a third-party app. And there are quite a few of those co-parently app close. Our Family Wizard, Talking Parents, those are all the names of apps that serve this exact purpose where all the communication between the parents goes through the app. And there are other, you know, they have other tools like scheduling and finances, whatever, that doesn't matter. But the communication needs to be civil and polite and limited. And very often it gets into shouting matches on the phone or like 50 text messages in an hour.

43:02 And like you don't have to like that stops when one person stops participating in it. So you have to just say, I can just step away from that way of being and offer, this is the platform that I'm willing to continue this conversation on. And you don't answer any other kinds of communication. One of them, I think our family wizard even has a function where it will review your message and flag it. It just flashes at you. No, don't spend that time. This is way too long. Stop what you're writing.

43:44 Yeah. Step away from the phone. Go and have a cup of tea. Yeah. So it flags your language so that it makes it more polite or more, you know, conducive to arrangements. So I think that's it. Like you, you don't like you, I mean, really not having any kind of inflammatory conversations in front of the kids because that's just so toxic. And somebody just has to say, I won't entertain that. And it can feel really. let's say, emasculating to walk away from that kind of argument where someone is shouting at you, oh, there you go again, just running away from your problems, you know.

44:33 Yeah, so emasculating for people who are not quite sure, that's like losing all your male power in the situation. Yeah. But it's one of like this is part of the new territory that sometimes dads, it's sometimes it's new for them to experience this idea that you have to let go of your habitual way of being in conflict to get the goal that you want, which is that your kids are healthy, that they respect you, that they want to be around you. Yeah, totally. And that's that for dads and moms is stop looking at everything day by day and start to look at the longer, at the longer picture.

45:18 And particularly once you've been separated for a while, you become much more comfortable with the long game rather than the pain of everything. That's right. That's right. That's why I walk dads through a process in my coaching program to really, you know, dig deep inside and talk about the find the couple of things that are most important to you that you can focus on so that we can make some goals, you know, that we can make goals that are related to your important values, not

45:55 someone else's, but what's important to you. And once you know those goals of your parenting goals or what you want for your children, what you want for yourself too, then we build a strategy of how to achieve that. And then we know which tools fit into that strategy because there are thousands of parenting tools. And they don't all apply in all situations. And I think that's where a lot of parents, both moms and dads, get into trouble is just sort of grabbing things off the shelf or throwing darts at, you know, at a problem with a different kind of solution each time.

46:35 And sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, but they're not, there's no clear strategy of parenting where you say, this is what I do when this happens. And it gets me this result. And I want that result because, you know, that's aligned with something very important about me. And it also helps you, you know, in that classic job of parenting, which is picking your battles, right? You can't have boundaries up all the time about everything. You can't be pushing back all the time about everything. You have to let something slide if you're going to keep your sanity. Yeah. And that's a really good point. And here, do you know what we're going to do, right?

47:14 We're not going to talk about the blended family stuff today. We're going to just stick on this subject and then we'll do a part two and we'll talk about the blended family. So because otherwise we're not going to do the subject justice. So on that point there you just mentioned a dad's got his own way, family values, his own idea about respect, tying your shoelaces up, washing your hands, how you sit at the table, what you say on the flight. He's got his own ideas, right? And then no surprise, if you've separated, you probably don't agree on half of these things.

47:50 How can a dad feel like he's still honoring his values whilst leaving space for the mother's values as well? I would say that he doesn't have to leave space for them. He has to just respect that it's okay that it's different at his house than it is at her house. And kids are so it's so much easier for kids to grasp that than the parents. It's the parents who struggle with that. Totally, totally. The kids get it. You just say, the reason is that I'm your dad and we do things this way here.

48:32 And when you're at your mom's house, you'll do it that way over there. They already know that the rules are different on the playground than they are inside the classroom. They know the rules are different in church than at my grandmother's house. The rules are different everywhere. And kids are totally open to that concept. They just need clarity. Kids just need clarity. Adults don't give kids half the flipping respect deserve because kids are like, oh, what? Half there and half here. Okay, that's fine. Okay. Yeah, they just get it. And I, I mean, I'll just tread quickly on the blended family thing, but lots of stepmoms ask me, like, how can we make it fair?

49:15 Because my kids who live here with us all the time have this brutal ABC, and then the stepkids come over and they have some other more permissive situation. Yeah, and then my kids get upset because his kids are allowed to stay up until 11 o'clock and watch TV and my kids have to go to bed. I said, You just say, I'm your mom, I make the rules. I'm not, I'm not the mom of them. They have another mom. I don't, I don't agree with it, but I can't fix how she's making her rules. And dad, um, you know, isn't in a position to argue because they're coming here to stay and he can't change the rules for them. You can make up whatever you want, but they get it. The kids get it, it's not hard for them.

49:59 Yeah, totally. And that is about being upfront, isn't it? It's about this, on the one hand, you said earlier, you know, be responsible for the things that we say. But on the other hand, is be free and open with the explanation of things because clarity is a much easier place to be there when there's no kind of confusion. It's actually much less stressful for a child than confusion. Absolutely. And I tell people all the time how important it is to repeat, repeat, repeat what's happening next, you know, like to lay out for kids,

50:43 especially when they're going back and forth. I think there's no way to understand how disruptive that is in your life. And it's like we turn them upside down, you know, that snow globe thing that has the flakes and the people inside, you know, like they're, they're just like this, you know, like kind of swirling around all the time. And we take for granted that the kids are coming Friday night and Saturday morning we'll have breakfast, then we're going skating and then we have a play date with whatever. And then, you know, Saturday night supper is at the restaurant or at my sister's. And then we're, you know, they don't even know what day of the week it is. Or how long am I staying? Like, how long is a weekend?

51:24 It's remember how long the summer felt when you were a kid? Like, so just continuously saying, tomorrow, here's what's going to happen. Or in the morning, here's what's on for today. Or in the afternoon, saying, and remember tonight, we're going to whatever. It's very calming to have that kind of like reiteration of the schedule and of, you know, how long is it till I go back to moms? Or when I'm leaving, how long until I come back again? Or what, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like routine and finding routines that kids, kids are comfortable with. A friend of mine,

52:08 ex-girlfriend, actually, she worked at Nickelodeon. And one of her friends, it was a boss, I've now become friends with him as well. And I said to him one day, why do you put on reruns of SpongeBob all the time? He said, kids love the familiarity of the repeats. They feel very safe to know that, and they couldn't tell you they'd seen it a hundred times before. They just, they're just comfortable with the fact that they kind of know what's what's happening. And we should aim to create that in our in our homes. Yeah, we're all about like novelty and we want there to be a surprise and something new all the time. And that's really, you can do that in very small parameters, but they mostly

52:51 want it to be the same all the time. Yeah. Have dinner, sit on the couch in a fun way, obviously not the same wretched thing all. No, no, of course. Tracy, you're back. You froze a little bit for a second there. Yeah, in a fun way. Yeah. No, it's fine, but not a really rigid routine where the kids are like, they're static. They can't, they can't, they're scared to even move. But yeah, I know that for myself. We get, we've watched, we've watched all of Modern Family. Then we watched the middle. So we have our TV slot, basically,

53:31 where it's just, and then they're begging me, can we just watch one more? Can we just watch one more? Yeah, but equally, that's cuddle time on the couch. It's wind down before bed. It's, you know, it's a positive thing. Nice. Okay, brilliant. Well, listen, as we get towards the end of this, what's, you know, you work with dads who are going through this tricky time. I know for myself that there was a bit early on, which was really painful and scary and, oh my gosh, like my world was caving in. And then there's a bit in the middle.

54:10 because I work with dads in this respect as well. There's a bit in the middle where they're just starting to rebuild their life and they're going, Oh, I don't know. I don't, I'm not sure I can cook the kids' favorite dinners, or I don't know what curtains to buy, or I don't know, or what am I going to do when the kids aren't here. And then there's a bit that comes like stage three, where they're now actually quite enjoy their own time when they're on their own, and they love when the kids are there. Um, how do you help dads transition through those three stages? Or what can you say to encourage dads about that? That's an interesting question. I hadn't thought about that question before about transitioning, but like most of the guys that I'm working with are already in a new relationship.

54:51 Oh, okay, of course, yeah, yeah. Um, so they've already, you know, they've already come through those parts, really. Yeah, um, but okay, so jump, jump to that, Tracy, jump to that. A dad's in uh, this is a perfect way to end up part one of our session. A dad has made the jump, he's now in a decided he's in it, he's in a serious relationship and he's thinking about moving in with the girlfriend. How does he approach that how so? This is how we're going to end today's session, right? How does he approach that subject with the kid? Because he's going to be stressing about it, right? Are they going to say, Are they going to kick off? Are they going to agree?

55:33 Are they going to cry? Are they going to run off? How can he peacefully, in his own mind, have that conversation effectively with his children? Well, I think he's already hopefully paved the way with introducing her in a good way. And like the basic concept is that this new partner, just the way I talked about archetypes before with the single mom and dad and the stepmom and dad, the archetype of this stepmother is someone who is in the way of your relationship with your dad as a child.

56:14 From the child's perspective, this new partner is someone who is standing between you and your dad, energetically speaking. I love to work with these kind of energetic images or visuals. She's standing in between you and your full relationship, between you and getting everything that you want from your dad. So she needs to go about intentionally demonstrating that that is not true. That she is there to support your perfect relationship with your dad. She's going to make it even better than it would have been if she wasn't there because she's an extra pair of hands who can do a lot of things while dad can be all about you,

56:56 especially if there's more than one child, right? It really helps a lot. Now each of you get to have time alone with dad because there's another adult to occupy the other kids or whatever. So there are a lot of important purposeful things that that new partner can be doing along the way to take the fire out of that feeling on the part of the child that this is a catastrophe, you know, that my dad is with someone new and that's a terrible thing. And I think it's also really important for the dad to take,

57:39 how shall I say, to feel good about his responsibility to model what it is to be a good husband. He wants his kids to observe him in that role because they're both going to take their both, however many, right? The boys and the girls are going to go out into the world and either be that kind of husband or look for that kind of husband. And they need to see that. They need to see him in a functional, healthy, happy, loving marriage relationship to complete their transformation, their transition as adults. It's part of what you want to give to your kids as a gift for, you know, as they go out into the world.

58:23 And so you have to negotiate that with them. They might, your kids might still not be, you know, 100% happy about this situation, but you can talk to them in that way and say that, you know, that this is something I want for you. I want you to see this part of me that otherwise you don't get to see this part of me. And I want you to know all of who I am. Yeah, okay, yeah. Yeah. So you're sharing not just the situation, but you're sharing

59:03 how you're going to grow in it. you're sharing your values in that moment. You're painting a picture for them where they can feel emotionally connected to what's going on inside you rather than just giving them the circumstances. Yeah. I think that's that's how I would approach it. And oh, there was something else I was going to say. It's gone out of my mind. Anyway, next time. But not all men are, you know, the classic kind of again, it's a bit cliched about men not being able to verbalize their feelings that way into words. So what they want to say is, I know this is going to be really tricky, but I do love this woman and I really want to create something where we're all really happy together.

59:45 And they go, yeah, we're moving in and it's going to be great. Yeah. They mostly want to know what is this going to mean for me, right? And I think there's also a kind of default image of like everything is going to change now. And in fairness, very often the bio mom is taking advantage of this moment to reinforce that negative impression and to really press on the kids that, oh, your dad's getting remarried. He's not going to have any time for you now. He's all about, you know, he's in a new relationship and that's where his focus is and he's not going to have time to be with you now.

1:00:26 It happens very often that that's the moment when the more the alienation wraps up or the conflict ramps up. It ramps up when you get engaged. It ramps up when you get married or move in together. It ramps up big time when you have another child. It ramps up when her new relationship falls apart. That she had a lot of hopes pinned on maybe, you know, a new person that she was living with or, you know, romantically involved with. That falls apart. That's another window of opportunity for the, you know, for this monster to come to life and sort of pull apart the dad's relationship with his kids.

1:01:09 There are a lot of external circumstances that you can't control. But as you said before, you know, it's really, it's all about focusing on yourself and what you can, what you can change. And that's enough. It is enough. Yeah, because that gives our children that fun, that foundation. They can look at, they're like, well, dad's solid. Everything's cool with dad. Dad's solid. We're okay. When we're with dad, we're okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Well, when we do the part two, we will get into that whole challenges of moving in and how people react and the stresses that puts on relationships. Because, I mean, I was a stepchild.

1:01:50 I was a step parent. I know in one of your podcasts I listened to, you said you don't really like people talking about it as a step parent, stepchild. I never really called my mum my stepmom. I don't think I ever really called her my mum either, basically. But I think a better way of saying that is I never spoke about my stepson as my stepson. He doesn't talk to me anymore. So I don't really, I don't, I don't really have any way of any way of explaining who he is now. He's just, he's a 19-year-old bloke who lives in the world, basically. But certainly, if I'm relating to the past, I'll talk about it as like I had a son from the marriage, stepson.

1:02:32 But yeah, all complicated things. And Limey, I think the final thing I want to say on this subject is: dads, be gracious with yourselves. Don't expect this to be easy. Allow it to be tricky and messy without getting too upset about, oh my gosh, it's going wrong. Like if you take something out of the oven, it's going to be hot. Like it's, it just is. And being a step parent, balancing a blended family, dealing with an ex-partner, it's not always going to be easy. And that's okay. Yeah. Yeah, perfect.

1:03:10 So, Tracy, your website again, just briefly, I'll just Facebook, Essential Stepmum on Facebook. Yeah. We've got the undeletable dad book link, which is shared in the comments. And the Facebook group is called, again, one for the dads, one for the dads. Good. I've sent you a someone's just someone just accepted me in anyway this afternoon. So we were in there as well. So, yeah, there's so many dad groups now. I should have started mine back in 2016 when I first had the idea. But it's like barbers, isn't it? You know, there's flipping hairdressers on every street. Exactly. We'll never run out.

1:03:52 We'll never run out of dads. Yeah. And the most important thing is that we all get knowledgeable and wise on these subjects so that we can be the best dad we can. can possibly be and the best partner we can possibly be. Yeah, great. Brilliant. Tracy, thank you so much. This was a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Oh, you're welcome. Hey, dads. What did you think of that, huh? What did you think of that? I tried to break it into pieces that we could really understand and that we could really work through. Like I said, Team Super Dad is not just for single dads, but the reality is that 50% of us at least have seemingly gone through this.

1:04:34 So work on it. Make it happen. Be the best possible dad you can be, either for your partner or for your kids. And you know what? Even for your ex. Because someone's got to take the high ground. Be the difference that you want to see in others. It isn't easy, but honestly, it took me four years really before I started to find peace, before I didn't hammer my keyboard in response back or get upset when handovers didn't go well. Like, you know, you're not a victim in this. It really is time to stand in your masculinity, in your identity, in your personal power. I hope this has been a value to you.

1:05:18 Don't forget the wrap-up will be coming on Friday, which is our more fun look at being a dad, celebrating the end of our week. If I do say so myself, it is hilarious. And I really appreciate all the feedback we get about both those ones and the more serious ones. Dads, I love you. We're on a mission. We really are having it all in our life. More time, more fun, more money, and being the best we can be for the people that matter to us most. Subscribe, share this, and I'll see you next time. Team Super Dad out. Bye. This has been Team Super Dad. Find us at teamsuperdad.com.

1:06:01 Join the program and create the best life ever for you and your children. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad.