How Firewalking Can Unlock a Man’s Happiness and Success feat. Barry Collins

00:00 Welcome to The Jonnie Jensen Show. Right, what if walking across fire could unlock your confidence? Your courage even your happiness It sounds ridiculous and I know from the number of friends who have said, why don't you come firewalking? Uh...I know exactly what most people think about that invitation. But the reality, the unbelievable surprise that comes at the end of a firewalk let alone the end of a firewalking weekend is absolutely incredible and i'm thrilled today to have someone that I learnt my firewalking trade Welcome to the Jonnie Jensen Show, where modern dads discover how to create the true riches relationships and results they deserve. Get your High Value Man blueprint and join our community at highvaluemanproject.com Let's go!

01:02 Hello Barry, great to have you here with us on The Jonnie Jensen Show. I gave a little preview to who you are in the intro but you are Barry Collins of KickAsh Firewalks and And you were one of the team that I did my firewalk instructor training with, so you are integral to my whole love and passion even for firewalking. It's great to have you here on the show! How are you doing today? On the hottest day ever in British history! Yeah well I heard earlier today that in Wimbledon they're going to hit the highest temperature in 147 years of Wimbledon history So yeah I'm guessing it's warm where you are and definitely warm where I am

01:43 Good news is that I've had to turn the fan off and shut the window, so i truly am melting. But you know what? It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Tom Cruise doing his own stunts! So here I am suffering for my audience, for the people that want to hear about firewalking Well, put your firewalker shoes on or take them off I suppose is a better reference and you know we're used to the heat as firewalkers in one way or another. You know being at the holding your foot to the flame Yeah exactly so when i have asked my mates or people i know or men inside The High Value Man Project come and do a firewalk many of them say... As if I'm fucking doing that right? Now of course what I think it's a bloody brilliant idea

02:32 Why do people have such a resistance to something that is so amazing? I mean, maybe it's bloody obvious. Maybe I don't want to burn my feet but what is the resistance you think? There are couple of parts that I've noticed are common and the first thing is that You and I having done multiple firewalks we understand and appreciate how powerful an experience can be And so we just think everybody should have an experience of that magnitude. But when you're selling the firewalk, when you're saying come and do a firewalk people who have no concept of what it's about they just think your nuts! So they just want to perhaps take out a restraining order keep your arms length and distance you and remove you as a friend on their friends list

03:23 And the other part is that it's so far beyond most people's comfort zone, that even those people who have maybe a glimpse of what the potential of that sort of experience could reveal to them and help them become. It still so far beyond their comfort zone that they're like there's no way I can do that. That's not for the likes of me you know is a common thing yeah And the magic of that last bit there is that we say that all the time, even subconsciously in our lives. We don't realize how many times we hold back from doing something that could be incredible and it might not be as inverted commas dangerous as firewalking but it's a little hesitation where we don't go after what's possible on the other side. Absolutely! The key component you've hit nail on

04:17 The people who are most inclined to decline that invitation, are probably the ones that would benefit most from it. Because that hesitation, that doubt, that uncertainty if they're feeling it at the invitation to Firewalk they're probably feeling elsewhere in life. And a bit of a leading question but is that why some people get to the end of their first firewall can just burst into tears? Oh absolutely! The...the..people who The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Barry Collins, KickAsh Firewalks, Firewalks,

04:59 When they get to the other end, they're the ones that have had the biggest breakthrough. The people who step up nonchalantly and stroll across like it was nothing and get to the other end and kind of look back over their shoulder and go well was that it? Have you got a bigger one?! Yeah! You know where's the big one? Where's the hollow one? And occasionally you'll get somebody like that but they... It tends to be because they've missed the context of what they're doing They've shown up because they think it's some sort And I called this, um you know how firewalking can unlock success and happiness because it is

05:58 Personally speaking, I took so much baggage into my first ever firewalking weekend and I didn't really have any expectations other than oh wow that is definitely something I want to do. But it was about a year and a half after my divorce or I had a lot of stuff I was bringing in let alone the previous 35 years worth of stuff And I didn't, it's that classic expression of you don't know what you don't know. I had no idea what was possible. I had an expectation that it was going to be cool but I had no idea the deeper levels of freedom that I got from it and there are a lot of other activities that go on in a weekend like that and we'll talk about that as we go on

06:44 Why does it, maybe we've answered this a little bit anyway but in terms of unlocking or unleashing that success and happiness why do you think...why is it such a monumental moment for people? I think because whether its an evening event or full day even a multi-day event typically even the people that know there's a firewalk if it's their first event that includes a firewalk experience There's some part of them, maybe a very large part in some instances that turns up still thinking there is no way I can do this. What was the thing? How did Jonnie talk me into this? What was I thinking about? Perhaps I can sneak out the back door and nobody will notice And the role that we have as facilitators is to bring context to that experience To bring meaning to it To make it symbolic of what else is going on their life

07:40 So that as they step off the coals at the end, they look back and then many people will say to themselves something along the lines of you know I didn't think that was possible or I didn't think it was possible for me but i was wrong. What else have I been wrong about in life? What else did I not think I was good enough ready for young enough old enough smart enough pretty enough all the stories that we tell ourselves in that moment That might sound like a right load of bollocks to some people.

08:36 It really would, right? Oh yeah. As if I'm going to get that from hoofing across three meters of hot wood! But that's almost like the ancient wisdom of firewalking and so much of what we as humans have let go from From, you know whatever. Not even just decades, millenniums... Whatever the right word of describing that is! Thousands of years of human history and practices such as these that give us breakthroughs to help us become something even more than what we thought possible and I know from the people i've seen do Firewalks it's a great leveller. You could have someone who's

09:20 Really not achieved as much as they hoped they would in life. Maybe they're at the start of their journey or maybe they're older and full of regret, and then someone else who's like absolutely A game smashing it! And the experience... The outcome is such a leveller. It can be equally impressive, equally significant for both those people. What can you say about that? So, firewalking itself is nothing new. It's been around for thousands of years. The earliest recorded example is nearly 6,000 year ago with the Kalahari Kum

10:02 And for them it was a connection to greater power and ancient wisdom and their ancestors. For much of the last several thousand years, that's what it has been – it is a ceremony, it is a ritual sometimes shrouded in mystery. And then in the late 70s It was added to the field of personal empowerment by a man called Tolly Burkhan, who was in the personal development field. He was part of the human potential movement back in the 70's and he came across firewalking and had his first experience and was so blown away by the impact out on him that he immediately started integrating it into the personal development seminars that he was delivering

10:52 And the breakthroughs that people had as a response to that were significantly more as a result of including The Firewalk as part of those seminars. You're absolutely right when you say it's a leveler because it doesn't matter whether you're a multi-million pound CEO or you're the janitor, or anywhere in between... When you stood looking at three meters of glowing red embers and your socks and shoes are off Those people, they're having a very similar experience. The same thoughts are running through their head it doesn't matter how much money you've got in the bank or how tailored your suit is and what cars at the end of the drive when you're looking at those coals You're going to receive a lesson

11:35 I just got goosebumps. Like, I love it when I'm on a do podcast and I get goosebumps regularly this is will say oh go on Jonnie again right but every like i know when they get you that goes right up your spine and it's like the human experience there's not a lot of everyday life where we get to really experience that okay I'm a human I'm having a human experience here yes whoever stood here was probably thinking similar things and they're about Sticking with my promise of introducing you properly, how the hell do you know all this stuff? Like why should we listen to Barry Collins? Who's Barry Collins and give us a bit of background into your firewalking journey. So for 25 years I was in corporate sales management team development... And you loved it! You loved the grind

12:27 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Barry Collins, I had been going through the motions, ticking the boxes and attending the refresher courses for management development. They were just recycling the same old stuff but in 2004 I was introduced to this new stuff, this wonderful stuff that i hadn't seen in the previous 15 or 20 years and it turned out it was NLP Neuro Linguistic Programming

13:06 And this was something very interesting. I thought, oh! I can see how it could apply this in the sales environment and you know my teams would outperform all that so I started a course of self-study but learning NLP from a book is like trying to learn to drive a car by reading a book It can't tell you what it's like to feel the biting point of a clutch. So between 2008 and 2009, I went and studied with Richard Bandler as a practitioner then as a master practitioner at NLP purely for the intention of bettering that sales performance in my teams but I quickly realized that actually outside of the sales environment people's lives could be better as a result of this stuff that I was learning directly and damn so quickly

13:55 And so I began, not intentionally building a practice where i would you know work with people on a one-to-one basis helping them overcome the stuff that goes on in between the ears that holds you back. The doubt, the fear, the uncertainty phobias anxiety stress All of that stuff. And by 2013, I was very lucky. I was able to step away from the corporate world. The practice had gathered momentum and so for a couple of years, I just threw myself into being a therapist and that involved immersing myself in the personal development field meeting lots of different people connecting with lots of people

14:35 And of course, firewalking came up as one of those things. It was like oh yeah that would be cool I'd like to do that one day! And so the opportunity arose in 2015 and we, my wife and I both helped organize an event. We got somebody in to run the firewalks and the next morning we both woke up and it was like holy shit how did I get more of that in my life? Right okay... ...and that was kind of the start and that was well back in 2015 And I began the training just a couple of months later to become a firewalking instructor. 18 months later, I found myself sat in the lounge of Tolly Burke Cannes as part of the mastery training so I was there learning from the guy who had started it all back in the 70s

15:27 And that for me was really profound to spend time with someone who, you know he was the creator of everything that it is today. You know he trained people like T. Harv Eker, Andy Harrington, Tony Robbins, Edwin Gaines, Dan Brule all these people who are significant within the world of personal development and So that was kind of where, you know I started that journey and now it just skyrocketed. So over the last eight years I've, I suppose become a master of my craft and You know, I had the fortunate opportunity to work with you when when you were training so, you know, I was glad to be part of that And you know, I've trained people from across the globe

16:17 To become instructors and run hundreds if not thousands of events, thousands of people across the course. And everyone has their own individual experience and because of the way that I was taught, the way that I was trained it's very much... It's not a carnival sideshow trick you know? It's a powerful medicine And so I always want to honor the origins of the teachings through Tolle, that this is about helping people to realize their potential. It's not what you learn when you firewalk it's who you become and that's what its really about Who could you become if you just set aside all the doubt and fear and hesitancy? Stop hesitating and take action today

17:10 And that bit you mentioned there about the fairground sort of version of it. I've been at events like that and i thought to myself, oh! I don't know how they look at this thing. That doesn't mean like how long or short is and that's not to discredit charity events. You know some...I've been at charity based events and they've been run brilliantly. What are the guys in Brighton TJ? Is it T.J.? Or something... E.J! H & E.J. Yeah, yeah I've tended and helped set the fire up and be a support to them at couple of their events but equally i've been in places where there's happened to be a firewalking thing going on and there was way too much razzmataz about it is that when things go wrong is that when people aren't setup in the right frame of mind It tends to be

18:04 You know, if you get into the science of firewalking there's lots of scientific explanations as to why it is possible. The challenge is that many of those scientific explanations contradict the other scientific explanations, which all stand up under scrutiny as a standalone explanation but not as soon as you compare them. The only common factor across all of the reasons is the attitude and mindset of people approaching it. If you approach it with fear and doubt and uncertainty then yeah, you run the risk of getting injured And the challenge with many of these events, you know I run charity events and the firewalk in those instances is the sizzle. It's what gets people interested it piques their interest and they go oh what's this about? But when they turn up that's where that's when we get to meet. That's when i have them for a hour or two before the firewalk and that's where we really explore what it's really about We give it context, meaning

19:05 There are other people that will just get you across the coals and at the end of the night, you go yeah I've done a firewalk. Great what why? I don't know but i've done a firewalk! And that for me is not what it's about It's about as the people come off they look back and yes sure they've done the firewalk but it's what they've learned about themselves in the process how they have learned that perhaps they're not showing up as their best self in day-to-day life But now they're aware of it They can choose to show up better, to show up differently. Yeah, and that fear being a... what's it called when you put letters together? Acronym. Acronym yeah! A false evidence appearing real which people will have heard people who will have sat in conferences and the bloke at the front would be like FEAR! False evidence appearing real but firewalking is is if the most beautiful example of this because the evidence is it's bloody hot and it's going to burn you to a crisp

20:05 Oh yeah. The experience is actually very different and so anybody who's ever thought I can't do something or don't think it's worth it, or putting something off for procrastinating you know like again it's not about success or lack of success It's about the things that we hold off on could be a relationship that were not happy in could be a job that we're bored with could be a vision for our life And Firewalking, is that in a... like there is. Can there be more profound illustration of that? No, that's the beauty of the firewalk you can't deny that you've just done it There's no well maybe I was just lucky You know maybe I just got lucky this time or if you've done a firewalk If you walked across three or four meters of glowing red embers which are typically an excess of 1000 degrees Fahrenheit

21:14 If you've walked across that, that is an indelible experience. That makes you question reality it makes you question the belief systems the things that you tell yourself and you accept as fact You know when we... our self-talk is one of the most convincing voices we will ever hear That little voice between your ears that says but what if? You can't maybe you shouldn't All those things, the unconscious is trying to protect you. It's trying to keep you safe that's its job but sometimes it gets it wrong and over protects you and so we miss opportunities We let moments that...it's not until months or sometimes years later we look back and realize at that moment was a golden opportunity and you missed it I talk a lot of to the men in High Valley Man Project about this

22:11 And I'll see you next time. And I'm going to be talking about the And being able to catch that, and that allows us. It allows us to avoid an argument with people. It allows us to take a risk and it go our way. And this for me is when you talk about firewalking...and actually there's other practices that go into firewalking and prepping people in the empowerment which we can talk about in a second but doing things like this is like a press up for our mind

23:24 And it allows us to actually realise, oh I decided that I couldn't do that and then I didn't say this which has given me this result. What if i'd actually done something different to that? What if I had actually thought no that's just a safety mechanism...I wonder what's on the other side of...fuck it let's go for it! And there that's where our real power lies. You know as you say there are other tools and I'm sure we'll talk about them but what it does is provides a controlled environment For people to step into and experience that fear, that doubt, that uncertainty.

24:00 And choose to become the observer of their own thinking, which I think is kind of what you were saying. Yeah exactly! That's just a fear about this or that's a doubt about that or that's just that voice telling me not to because that one time this thing happened and when you can become the observer of your own thinking you can detach the emotions from it and go right so that's just a thought now i can make a choice about what to do freely And it allows you to rehearse being successful, to rehearse putting your foot forward. To take that first step into the unknown and being okay with not knowing what the next step holds. It's like people just think of this as woo-woo stuff but it's about harnessing the power that is all around us and within us and putting it into action I mean the board break is a beautiful thing...I'll let you explain how the board breaks work and what goes on

24:55 You've got a room full of people, the same piece of wood you know in terms of dimensions and what it's...you know where what tree it has come from. A little old lady goes right through it and some big geezer can't break it I mean that is this thing that is this realizing or not realizing or accessing or not accessing this innate power in all of us yeah And this is the power of an individual? Yeah well describe..what is it tell us all about The Board Break Sure so that you know in terms of The Board Break It's essentially a square plank of wood that is typically about an inch thick. And if you're a fan of martial arts or have seen any sort of martial arts movies, or been to personal development seminars, you will invariably probably have seen someone smashing through a wooden board with their bare hand in a karate-esque type way

25:51 Now the thing with this is that, as you quite rightly said you can have some small frail little old lady who comes up and absolutely destroys it. And some big boots guy who if you were to look at him you'd think oh he's just going to sail through it really struggle with it and in many instances that is a credit to the facilitator because If it's just a test of strength, it would probably happen the other way around. The frail little old lady would have difficulty with it and the big butch guy would smash her, but not really know why. But with all these exercises... you know the exercise is not what the exercise is about

26:30 It's about what you can learn about yourself and that's the facilitators job to present it in such a way that it has a deeper meaning, a deeper structure. So what is this actually about? Is it about breaking a wooden board? No I could take out and take a hammer to it! And I've still broken a wooden board but what does it represent and where else are those patterns of behavior showing up in my life? Where else am I holding myself back? What do I need to break through to get to the stuff that I want in my life And that's what these exercises tend to be about. Yeah, and that's why people get confronted! That's like you're saying if you just walked up in the street and said push through this... You'd get different versions of people doing it successfully or otherwise but when you're in the context of the day and you're saying you know you're almost like asking people or challenging people to be confronted by those things they don't want to talk about then they get that loss of power which is

27:26 That is about taking them on that journey to kind of break them down and build them back up because that's where the ultimate breakthrough comes from. And it's also a measure of commitment, again in all these exercises there's an element of commitment you have to make the decision to commit to these exercises and we've all done it! We've all done something in our life where we didn't get the outcome that we'd hoped for and we've all said a version of... at least I gave it a shot We've all said something like that, ah I gave it a shot and because we didn't get the outcome but if we were honest with ourselves you know in your heart of hearts in that dark secret place did you give it 100%? Could you have given it a little bit more and if you had would you have maybe got the outcome that you were chasing.

28:14 I'm deliberately not talking about success or failure here because it isn't about that. It's about going after the things you want and if you want them, then go after them. Throw yourself into 100% heart and soul and go after the things that you want but don't hang your happiness in your success on those things realize that you can be happy and successful now on the road to those things You know, it doesn't matter if you've got the right car or the right relationship or the right bank balance. If you're hanging your happiness on them, you can be miserable now and then you may get happy one day but if you can make the decision and if you become the observer of your own thinking like you spoke about, you can make a choice to be happy and still go after those things in best case scenario you get those things that you're chasing and you're happy but worst case scenario? Your just happy

29:08 And that's why I called this interview, this video, this podcast, you know, unleashing the how firewalking can help you unleash your success and happiness because It is about experiencing the journey. Too many men get caught up in trying to support everybody else and be the man and do everything that they're supposed to, and fulfill the role of the man. And I talk a lot about masculinity because I do believe that the world is missing masculinity but not in flipping six pack or flipping misogynistic. I don't hate that bloody word but you know, Tate-esque type stuff. Men who are present

29:50 and bold, and have a willingness to step out when the opportunity arises. Who are present to the journey that they're on and they're enjoying the wins and losses in equal measure Stuff like, and I dare say people who do skydives and things like that or you know from my own snowboarding experiences there's something magical about tossing yourself off the side of a mountain down some off-piste after there has just been a heavy dump of fresh powder. And in your mind

30:26 I'm pretty certain i'm going to make this but there is a definite element of risk and my legs are gonna be burning and there's a whole kind of getting to the bottom, turning around looking back again. Oh my gosh that is what being alive is about! And so unleashing that success and happiness it's about doing these things, literally setting yourself free. If I can share a quick story which alludes to that? Yeah please When when I went and spent a week with Tolly All I knew was that for those seven days, and you know if you've ever been to any of these Personal Development seminars where there's 200 300 400 other people in the room it wasn't that. There was eight of us in Tolley's Lounge from across the world so this is small intimate there's nowhere to hide and all I knew for those seven days was that each day was going to challenge me more than the day before... That was it!

31:22 And so you can imagine my surprise when on day three we arrive, we're taking our coats off putting our bags down and he says no-no don't take your coats off. You're not going to be here long today because today you are going to take the 90 minute drive up to Lodi Airport. You are gonna watch a short video, sign the form put it in a jumpsuit get in a plane get up to 13000 feet get a man strapped to your back and then you getting out before lunch Now Hans started to go up in the room as to all the reasons that wasn't going to be working for me today, you know and I wasn't only one. And he's like no...you don't get to choose now!

31:57 You have to take the 90 minute drive and sign the form, watch the video and put on a jumpsuit. Get in the plane get up 13000 feet and get the man strapped your back and sit in the doorway And when you're sat in the doorway that's when you get to choose because Up until that moment you are basing your decision on what you think the experience is going to be Once you've sat in the doorway you are basing the decision of what it actually gonna be But up until that moment you just telling yourself a story and making a decision based on that And that's what we do in life all the time. We tell ourselves these stories about, well I think it'll be like this or I think it would be like that or I don't want to do because and then we base a decision on our own internal experience rather than the reality of the experience

32:43 And so, you know that all these exercises that we do it gives people the opportunity whether its firewalking or board breaking or walking on a bed of broken glass. It calls your attention! It calls you to be very present and pay attention to your own experience and your own thinking And you begin to see these patterns. We say that, you know the way you do one thing is the way you do everything and these patterns they begin to show up when you're in these sort of environments and so you can look at these patterns analytically and you can go is this serving me? Where else is this showing up in life? Do I want to keep doing this but now you're aware of it you can choose to change if you want

33:26 Yeah, I use that all the time. How you do one thing is how you do everything and I'd say in the mirror don't...I'm not like preaching this to people. I look at it from my own perspective in the mirror. This last week of giving up caffeine and I mean giving up for life. Do you know what? I normally do in the winter and I blasted past, I can't do that this winter but I'm too tired! And then of course I'm drinking more and more of it and I'm just like, this isn't right, I know part of it is good because it like focuses me and the other part of it's bad because I know that gets to a point where I'm drinking too much of it and it's not actually healthy. And few people have that level of self-awareness, like they're miserable so they play

34:13 Firewalks Get this wrong and you will burn your feet too Chris. You know like there's no... That's not my approach! No, but in my mind because I told like oh if if you run across it you're going to scuff the coals up and you're gonna kick them hot

34:54 You know, embers up onto the top of your feet and that's going to burn. If you panic and you kind of like almost like hop across them then you're gonna push way too deep into it and that's not the way to do it either. And for me that is also a metaphor about how you approach a relationship about how you approach a negotiation. Like get this... tune into what you're doing Be present to the way that it's going to work for everything involved. Your feet, the embers, the people around you like be present of what it's going to take to get through this successfully and you will create that win and that's like a level of intentionality in focus. Maybe we'll be fine. Yeah? Oh yeah! I mean

35:39 I sometimes get asked, you know as i said. I do charity events as well and one of the questions that sometimes comes up is can we not cut the talk a bit shorter? Do you really need an hour and a half? And so at that point I go right let's imagine it's not a firewalk but it's a skydive and your saying to me okay can we cut it short If you're saying to me, can you cut the safety briefing short? I would say to you sure. Which part of the safety briefing do you want me to cut out? You know and because everyone in the room is a grown adult they can make their own choices and so you know... And i said them look these people if you've ever done a skydive or any you know extreme... No but now you go the bit where you pack the parachute or the bit where you land which bit do you wanna cut like that?!

36:38 As you approach this, we're going to train your people to have the best possible experience. Because if like if you go for a skydive or bungee jump they're gonna prepare you to have the best possible experience. The experience that most people are probably turning up to have and so if... We make the decision okay that's the experience I wanted to give you. We have to prepare you for that experience because if you're not fully prepared you could choose to do your own thing like not pull the cord at 3 000 feet And you'll still have an experience, not for very long. But you'll still have an experience but not the one that we want you to have and so all of these things are about preparing you to have the best possible experience How often do we do that in life? How often do we take time to prepare ourselves to have the best possible experience or in life are we more often going, ah! but what if... and preparing ourself for the worst possible scenarios Yeah and that is

37:40 I mean, that's part of my training program as well is courage. It's the second part of the 3xE formula and having courage. Joe, there's a definition of courage you're probably well aware this right? But when I looked at it, I was like that is beautiful! It's not the absence of fear, it's the ability to push through fear. That's courage Yes, beautiful I think. Oh yeah absolutely and it's true with again coming back to all these empowerment activities many of them most of them will create an element of fear and that's natural it's the people who don't have fear that are normally more concerned about but the ones that have fear its preparing them to have the fear and still take action That's what we're preparing them for

45:09 Kicking back into this conversation we've been having about unleashing success and happiness, given all your experience of NLP and coaching people along with the firewalking stuff. Where do you see men commonly getting stuck? What has men commonly find themselves in this stuck sort of experience, this endless repeat cycle I think there's several parts and part of it is, you know the stereotype of what is a man. You know the construction industry is one of the industries that has the highest suicide rate because men are expected to be these butch manly without being able to freely express themselves and their emotions and say I need some help And so this kind of pressure to conform to this stereotype

46:04 But also the other part I think is not having the guidance to kind of have someone help them, to explore how do you get happy? How do you go after the things that you want in your life. You know we get stuck in the rut. I was there for 25 years and if not for a few chance encounters God, I might even still have been there and you know i would have been a basket case if that had happened. So I think recognizing that you know if you're doing something that's not fulfilling you, that's not feeding your soul, it's not making you happy, isn't nurturing your relationships either with partners or children or parents then you don't need to keep doing it

46:56 But sometimes it's seeing the way out is where the challenge lies. And so, you know I think those two things recognizing that if you're doing something that's not serving ya don't keep doing it find a way out and asking for help if you need that help to get the way out. Yeah, that was just beautifully summed up Barry Because people get this experience of being stuck and I mean, suicide actually is quite an easy choice. One of the things I've talked about and I do get challenged on it quite a lot... It normally challenges people when I say that suicide's quite easy compared to the mental anguish of going round and round in that loop

47:43 And as blokes, as men that's what breaks us. It's that thing of I can't go round that route, I can't go around that roundabout one more time is there any way out? Is there any way out? Oh there is one way out okay you know what I'm taking it and people don't say how could you be so selfish but if doesn't come like that also just doesn't come like people are never expected didn't see it coming up well maybe not but because Guys do hide it quite well. And they're not trying to make everybody else in their life miserable, they're not trying to be selfish. They just like... I can't like the choices I need to make to break out of this job, this family, the whole situation. I can't upset all those people and I can't risk that. I'll tell you what? I take the easy option and maybe that is a bit selfish but also I think for as a bloke it's quite a pragmatic choice. It's

48:34 That's why I say quite often people, the straw that broke the camel's back will be lost my wallet. It can be literally as basic as another thing and you know it's even simpler they don't see any other choice. You know it's not that it is an easy choice but they perceive it to be their only choice and I think that's even more heartbreaking. Yeah well I know from my own backstory The possibility of taking my own life was just one of many possibilities that when I was actually doing okay, it was like 1 out 20. You go like, well let me do that as ridiculous but anyway interesting thought carry on with your day! When the chips get down and down and down you're suddenly left with like okay i can't see many other choices yeah that's when it takes people down

49:30 Um, oh and obviously people aren't at... not everyone listening to this is going to be at that stage but if you're a bloke who's juggling a load of subjects and you think I just can't find a way out as I just don't know how i'm gonna fix this. I just don't know if I can make that difficult decision then I hope what you've taken from this conversation Even before you take that drastic decision, there are things that you can do such as go on a firewalk. Such as maybe doing skydiving or joining men's group. Put yourself in a program where you explore exactly who you are and what you want out of life so that you actually get to show up as the man you want to be. I just wanna ask a question about Tolley because

50:15 I love his books. I love the expression, let it be easy. I don't even know if i've got a question at the end of this. Can you tell me more about him? I've had the pleasure of being on a couple of Zoom type calls with him The book that's his sort of life story, everyone should read that. Dying to Live I think it was called? Dying to Live by Tully Burkhan and you'll get it on Amazon or you probably get on tullyburkhan.com And it is, it's his life story of being a young man in his 20s attempting to take his own life twice and once he was successful. Of being hit by a car that caused his neck to break and then being hit by a truck a second time that broke his neck so badly you had to have cadaver bones fused into his neck... Wasn't one of these suicide attempts chucking himself off a boat?

51:16 I think so, yeah. That's the one i love that he chucked himself off a boat! No, I think that was when he faked his own death. Oh right, you faked it? He faked his own death and was in all the press and he was gone for about seven or eight months they had a funeral and everything because he realised that... You know, he'd faked his own death because he was miserable And he thought, you know if I can just get away from this life. I can start again and i'll be happy and what he realized was that his unhappiness was on the inside and so wherever he went He would be unhappy So that's when it came back and thought right okay? I need to try something different. I need to sort myself from the inside out Dying to live. And what people need to know is rather than its just being a bit of fun or like

52:05 Random I don't know what, like there is a heart to this which Even in this modern era, it's already going back. What are we now? Must be 50 years and right to the cool California personal development movement of the 60s and 70s I love that really old video on YouTube where he's doing the session in his lounge with a coaching session with just brilliant like you really get a sense of oh yeah okay this guy was right there when When What's His Name was doing the Est, Werner Erhardt was putting together the forum which is now Landmark Forum.

52:52 And obviously all this, this whole movement. It's an important thing so anybody who listens now to whatever you might have seen Tony Robbins on TV, you listen to Mel Robbins no relation, you know? Tony, what was he called? Bellew guy Tom Bellew, Lewis Howes like these are people that podcast us now with millions of listeners. Blimey Jim Rohn and all those guys There's this real physical aspect of that, that you can gain access to all the things that probably years of personal development reading can get you. You're going have a real strong taste of it in just an afternoon or day of coming and doing something like this, this firewalking experience

53:38 Absolutely, and I think a lot of what's going on today is really just a diluted and rehashed version of when all this started back in the 60s and 70s and 80s. It all has its foundations in that movement. Oh yeah totally! You watch some podcasts or listen to some And it doesn't matter about how old people are, right? Because I've seen older people do it and younger people do it. You kind of listen to them and you go yes! Basically it would be like listening to me after I went into the landmark forum super excited with no depth to it thinking you listened to a Drake song and think you know hip-hop It's just not anywhere near the whole story

54:29 Barry, we're going to start to wrap this up. Such a great privilege to hang out with you like I said, I've met various people on my firewalking journey and it's a real privilege to still be connected – you and your lovely wife – and putting together this event in November. Just remind us one more time where can people come find if they're interested in getting involved? To find out more you can visit kickashfirewalks.co.uk or visit us on TikTok, on Instagram and on Facebook at KickAshFirewalks

55:07 And that's it, that's for me. If you've been listening to this on the live then please subscribe so you get all the updates when we go live again. Probably more importantly to me, go over to Apple Podcasts, Spotify wherever you listen to your podcast and search up The Jonnie Jensen Show and get yourself subscribed to the podcast I absolutely love podcastsing i've got fully back into in the last year if there is people who think should be on this show then recommend them to me Um, and the best way to do that is to come over and get yourself involved at The High Value Man Project. Basecamp, which you just go to highvaluemanproject.com forward slash group and that'll get you in there all the free entry level stuff that we offer and um uh just an opportunity to meet like-minded guys like us and start your journey to really create the life that you deserve not one you feel stuck in Barry absolute pleasure to see you thank you Jonnie it's been a pleasure catch you next time cheers guys

56:08 Thanks for tuning in to The Jonnie Jensen Show. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with fellow dads! Creating the life you deserve starts with YOU. Get your High Value Man blueprint and join our community of motivated modern dads at highvaluemanproject.com Let's go