93: Higher Infinite Power

00:18 Mo Facts with Adam Curry for August 30th, 2023, episode number 93. Whoa, what? Did you not expect us? Oh, yeah. Experience the unexpected here. I'm Adam Curry coming to you from the heart of the Texas Hill Country. Time once again to spin the wheel of topic from here to Northern Virginia. Please say hello to my friend on the other end, Mr. Mo Facts. How you doing, Adam? Mo! I'm doing good, man. How about yourself? I'm doing great. I think you got the tagline down. The unexpected experience. Yes. And we didn't even discuss that beforehand, but it always is kind of something. I was just talking to Tina before I walk in the studio. Says, oh, what are you guys talking about? I said, I don't know.

01:03 You get his clips, don't you? I said, yeah, I get the clips. Well, don't you look at it? Are they just numbers? No, they got titles. Don't you look at them? No. No, where's the fun in that? And you get them like maybe what, like 10 minutes before the show? You don't have a lot of time to do a lot of examining. No, I do zero examining. That's the whole point. What is this, by the way? What is this track that we're listening to, this opening track? This is Souls of Mischief 93 Till Infinity. Appropriately so. Okay. I've never heard this before. I've never heard this. Never heard. Yeah, I love the show 93 connection, but I've never heard this before. I like it. Oh, this is hip-hop classic. Classic of classic.

01:46 Oh, I'm mad. This is when the sound started to change, but I guess it would be a great time to go ahead and spin the wheel. Oh, oh, hold on a second. Let's do that. That's right. There it is. The wheel of topics. Round and round it goes. No one knows where it stops. Well, of course, Mo knows where we're going because he has selected the following topic for us for episode number 93. This is a journey into sound. I know this. I know this. I know this particular clip. I know this clip. It's from This Is a Journey into Sound. Isn't the stereo test album? Yes, and then also from Eric B and Rock Him Fame.

02:25 Oh, okay. That's right. I forgot about that because I don't play my Eric B and Rocky records that often anymore. So you're probably wondering what this all means. What this means is this is the long-awaited quote-unquote hip-hop episode. Episodes. All right. I told you I had a bucket list of shows I wanted to get to. Hold on a second. Let me ask you, is this the one? Is this the episode where we find out how an evil small group of men have completely controlled hip-hop to control the inner cities and thus America? Eventually. But what we have to do first is understand what it is they are controlling.

03:11 I don't know if you know this or not. It's been in the news. The 50th anniversary of hip-hop. Yes, as celebrated by a Jay-Z tribute to himself. And we have them all over the place. Everybody's taking their part. And there's some claims or who owns hip-hop. Is it ADOS slash FBA? Is it Worldly? Who all was involved? What I hope to do is lay out the case of what is, I'll say it again, what is actually being discussed, what is being controlled. And you have to lay a strong foundation. This may, I assure this is going to be a multiple episode

03:57 venture. Okay. I'm sure two, maybe three, because it's just that dense. But let's go ahead and get into where it all began in Slave Songbook. By 1860, there are roughly 4 million enslaved Africans in the United States. Forcibly transplanted to a new land, they've brought with them a rich African heritage, including songs. Adapted to reflect the experiences of life of hard labor on plantations. These slave work songs, laments, and shouts of protest evolve into a new musical form, the spiritual.

04:44 The spiritual will in turn become the wellspring for generations of musicians who will create the blues, gospel, jazz, and the protest songs of the 1960s. Now, if I'm listening to the day. dates here, it seems like hip-hop's a little older than 50 years, Mo. It's very much, well, hip-hop is the latest iteration of the Negro spiritual. It started there, and as he listed it out, it went through gospel, blues, jazz, rock and roll, on to uh rhythm and blues, and then hip-hop.

05:22 And that's where we're at with it right now. And this is it's the power that's being controlled, that's trying to be harnessed and controlled. It's the same power. How was the power back in those days? I mean, was it power? Was it comparable to power back in the days of the slaves? I hope to answer that question as we lay out the show, but I have to, this is just the origin. That there was no instruments at the time. We were the instruments. And I think I would say hip-hop is an American quote-unquote ADOS invention because I believe it's the merging of the English language, the power that's in it in itself.

06:11 We know this is a magical spell-casting language, and then the rhythm that powered, you know, quote-unquote ADOS people. All right. So let's go ahead and get into the second. Just to let people know, this is the PBS documentary, History Detectives. Let's go ahead and get into the second part. Slave Songs of the United States. Wow, published in 1867, you know, two years after the end of the Civil War. What do you know about the book? Well, very little. You know, there is something that caught my attention, and it's in the first paragraph. If you don't mind, I'd like to read it to you.

06:50 Okay. The musical capacity of the Negro race has been recognized for so many years that it is hard to explain why no systematic effort has hitherto been made to collect and preserve their melodies. And it got me to thinking: could this be the first book of Negro spirituals published in the United States? And that would be a really interesting thing. Sounds like that's your question, in fact. Well, that's one of my questions. And then I also want to know, you know, who were the people who collected this music? You know, what was their motivation? This is a really fascinating story, and I'm ready to get going. Okay, fantastic. I love their script. Well, this is a great story. Okay, let's get going.

07:29 We'll do it a little more casual here. As they alluded to it's a power that's behind it. And I don't know if you know this or not, or very many people know this. Hip-hop is an acronym for higher infinite powers helping our people. Okay, no, I didn't know that. And I'm surprised, actually, I never knew it was an acronym. Yes. Or I don't know if that's the genesis of the genesis of hip-hop. It comes from hip, which hip means cool, which goes back. We got to look at how hippies play into that. You know, in the beat mix. This episode was impossible because

08:15 there were so many rabbit holes that you can go down where these terminology came from. But it was later to be understood. That's what it stood for. And that's what I hope to lay out in these at least two episodes. This is the higher infinite power part. What is that power? And you have to ask yourself as well, what makes quote-unquote black people so influential throughout the world. Is it that power? Well, this is the right question. I don't know the answer. Yes, I don't. So that's what we had to get into. Let's go ahead and move along into part three. To the enslaved African, what did these songs mean? These songs were everything.

08:59 He had to sing about his condition. Being sold, his family being separated. He had to sing to keep his plain mental bearing. He tells me that plantation owners often forced enslaved Africans to attend church to hear the message of Christianity. A message that missionaries carefully tailored to justify slavery. But the enslaved men and women took this new language and created their own spirituals. Songs that often contain coded meanings, bringing messages of hope and sometimes visions of escape. All right, just got just because I like doing show notes, and I went and looked up

09:46 in a dictionary, hip-hop. Already these acronyms have been captured. Listen to this: Homeless and Indigenous Population Health Outreach Project. Project and healthy individual people helping other people. Oh, there you go. Forget your higher power. It's for homeless. Well, it's that is a microcosm of what I'm talking about. The harnessing of that quote-unquote power. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. And we're gonna, just to do a little foreshadowing, the call and response, the chance at these that you've documented over the years,

10:24 that is part of it. And I love that eventually we're gonna get into a part where I was actually a part of it, of the mainstreaming of hip-hop. Right. Oh, yes. But that's why I could have started it there. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Always when you lay the bedrock, you know, the foundation, it'll make a lot more sense. And speaking of laying the foundation and bedrock, we have to go back to episode 22, Dream Machine. And this is the spirituals being. No, hold on. My fault. I'm jumping a little ahead. No, you know what? Let's do it. Let's do that. And then we'll go back to number five.

11:05 Okay, here we go. This is the Highlander school song. It was in the civil rights struggle that Highlander became most famous and famous for a song. How that happened is a textbook example of Highlander working exactly the way it was designed. From the start, the civil rights movement had songs, lots of songs, but it didn't have a song. One unifying and irresistible anthem that not only said who they were, but that musically expressed all their hope, determination, and spirit. Septima Clark, Pete Seeger, and a new young staffer named Guy Carowan began adapting an old hymn-turned labor song that Sylphia loved to sing.

11:45 The word will was changed to shall. Some verses were fitted to the new movement's goals, and the tempo was changed so people could march to it better. It became we shall overcome. We shall overcome. Deep in my heart, I do believe we shall overcome. Now you rang your bell. Yeah, I was just saying that they had many songs, but as you just laid out with the hijacking the acronyms, they picked this one song, remixed it, so it's easier to march to.

12:23 Yeah. If ain't activation in itself, I mean, what is it? And I would like to bring up one example in modern, like in recent current events, this North Richmond song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You see how a single song can inspire people or ignite something within people. Now, I got to be honest, the song did resonate with me. And that it is what it is. But I can understand how music can resonate to certain people that's on their frequency. And I think that has a lot to do with this power thing. It's a frequency thing. Yeah. And let me just hone in on that. Right down to the instrument used.

13:06 It's a frequency that resonates with a certain population of people. Just like the 808 may resonate differently with different people. So absolutely. And also, this was a visual hit. Yes. You know, there's an important difference there. And it's amazing. It actually reminds me of early, well, for me, early hip-hop in the late 80s when hip-hop was seen as the hood CNN. And this is kind of like rural America's CNN.

13:46 It's like, hello, look at me. Let me tell you what's going on out here. And this may be the motive for why they're trying to hijack these movements because your quote unquote cultural revolutionaries are not going to come from upper middle class or rich. You know what I'm saying? They're going to come from where you get an understanding and then you can voice it in a certain way. People were talking about this guy like he was Bob Dylan in the 60s, you know. And I think to a degree, it's now short. We have a much shorter attention span. But it hit home. It was so good that right away, it's like, you know, we have to surface videos.

14:27 This guy's a shill. He's no good. He's controlled opposition. A lot of stuff went in there all of a sudden. That's the hip-hop keeping it real. Is he real? Is he really real? Are you an industry plant? All of this, when that term keeping it real, that's what it meant. Is it, did it come from, you know, the authentic place they're speaking about? or is it industry? Is it corporate? Right. And as we get down the show, it'll be crystallized, hopefully. But now let's go back. And I was speaking about the dual

15:07 nature of the English language and how big thing in hip-hop is the double entendre or the mythical triple entendre, which very few people can pull off, but it's been done. But number five will speak more of the double meaning in the Negro spiritual. The words we're saying have a double meaning. So anytime you hear anything about traveling shoes or chariots or wheels, somebody's getting ready to run. And so you take a Negro spiritual. Swing low, sweet cherry, coming for to carry me home.

15:52 Swing low, sweet cherry, coming for to carry me home. That chariot is moving. That chariot is swinging low, picking you up, putting you on that underground railroad, taking you somewhere to freedom. So when we sing those songs, it's like, something's getting ready to happen. So I looked over Jordan and what did I see? Jordan, that was metaphoric for the Ohio River. A band of angels coming after me. Those coming, those conductors coming to help you, coming forth to carry me home. So they had all kinds of little messages. And the slave master would hear us singing and say, oh, don't they sound pretty happy tonight?

16:37 Next day, two or three people gone because we put that message out. Oh, Moe, this is great. This is a masterclass. You're picking all the, all the, this is fantastic. Of course, everyone knows everyone in America knows this song. I would hope. And you can kind of think about it. But man, she just put it in like 50 seconds. She put it all together there for us. I love that. And they were transferring information, meaningful information back and forth, you know, to people. Hey, we're about to head north. You know, and you knew what that meant, and you'd be gone.

17:13 And as I was doing my research, the racism, creativity put into racism just amazes me sometimes because I found this racial slur called the moon cricket. The moon cricket. Yes, this is a racial slur for black people. I'm just showing you how we put so much energy in doing the wrong thing that it's funny, but it's not funny at the same time. Because what it meant was, this is the basis of it, this very act of singing at night.

17:51 They would hear slaves sing at night, and that's what they call moon cricket. Us been known to the slave master that your property is about to head, you know what I'm saying, up out of here. But it's just amazing that us putting our energy into the wrong thing. I had to share it because it gave me a shock. It's like, but it's, I'm astonished at the level of racism. It's basically the N-word. Well, what I'm saying is you have the option, but they have to get more creative with it. It just baffles me. I thought I'll share that. So this is Reverend Velma Thomas.

18:33 And you could hear, as they say in the church, and we're going to go to church here for a little bit in a minute, the anointing on her voice. You can hear it in her voice. It's a certain thing that resonates. And I don't know if it resonates with you or not, because like I said, I think we're all tuned to different frequencies. When she's singing, when she's singing? Right. Oh, well, it resonates in me as a human being. Of course. But I'm saying, like, the same way that North of Richmond didn't resonate with me, I was like, cool song, but it isn't the frequency. I'm not saying the message or whatever. It's the frequency that didn't register with me to my ears the way they're tuned.

19:14 Right. Like, but with her, it's the certain tenor in her voice that is in the church, they call it anointing. In modern day, they call it drip. It's that thing that makes you go from can sing to can sang. And that's the only way I can explain it. I got you. I got you. Of course. So just, okay, so number six. We talked about waiting the water. Wait. waiting the water, children. Wait, wait, wait, wait in the water,

19:55 because God's gonna trouble the water. So we stepped in that water because the dogs can't pick up your scent. We had all these songs that said it's time to move. It's time to go by the waterway. It's time to follow the North Star. It's time to start looking. It's time to start traveling. It's time to start getting ready to cross over that Jordan into freedom. Steal away to Jesus. Oh, Lord, they're going on to heaven. No. Steal away home. I ain't got long to stay here. So we steal away to Jesus. We steal away to freedom. But it sounds like we're just talking about a life in the hereafter, but we're talking about a life in the here and now.

20:40 You know, I realize that in all the racism that's discussed in our country, in the United States, on it seems like a daily basis, this part of slavery is really not discussed much at all. It's always about the bad master and how horrible it was and building America on the back of the slaves. But there's not just, to me, at least if thinking over the past five, 10 years, there's not been a lot of talk about the Underground Railroad and the escape and what that was like and how beautiful it really was.

21:18 And that's in my opinion, that's purposely done because you don't want to have people be inspired. Just like this is the whole reason for the hijacking of the music and the culture. Because I have to do this, but Jay Edgar Hoover is known for saying, first of all, yes, I'm going to show you. Self-hating black man, Jay Edgar Hoover. I was going to say, we all know he's black. We all know he's a brother. The self-hating black man, J. Edgar Hoover, allegedly, was known being very cautious and conscious of this black Messiah figure that was going to raise up, have the ear of the people.

22:04 Obama tapped in this a little bit and inspire. So they constantly, and when I say they, Capital Day, are constantly manipulating, controlling, inspecting to ensure it's two pathways. Either you, through academics, if you show yourself to be highly intelligent, we'll capture you, make you one of the talented 10th, send you off to Iowa school, and now you're not a threat as disgusting trick baby. Right? Yep. But for those that stay in poverty and in that area, there's two other paths. It's sports. You know, you're physically gifted, and that'll be your railroad to a D1 school and we'll isolate you.

22:47 Now, there's one more piece of the pie left. That's the one that can sing their way out. They have the talent, the charisma. They have the ear of the people. They said we can't let, we got to control that. Because as you've seen, the guy with his guitar and a camera and a microphone inspire people to feel something. Now we live in a short time window, you know, where stuff goes viral, then it falls out to the wayside. Have you seen any of the remixes of that song? I have. Because that's what I thought was hip-hop-esque.

23:26 It's like, hold on a second. Now we got guys, we got white guys in the farmlands rapping over this song. And that to me was what was really exciting about it. Wish they had to do that because it had to resonate with a certain demographic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you saw this even in hip-hop. Southern hip-hop was totally different frequency than northern hip-hop and west coast hip-hop. So, I mean, it's even intra group, as I like to say, you have these different frequencies that it just doesn't register. But fast forwarding to this control mechanism, it goes all the way back to slavery per Judge Joe Brown, and he was speaking on this phenomenon.

24:11 Will they lynch? Not so much because it was very early, but later on, the slave masters were instructed to go in with their fellow slave owners and buy a stud. Now, there was a peculiar attribute they wanted this stud to have. They also wanted him to make a good preacher. So make the stud to preacher. allow slave marriage. So the slave male would find out that when his female wife, well, his wife was believed to be in heat, the slave masters would bring over the stud preacher to sleep

24:59 with his wife often on his palate in his hovel. Wow. That would do what now would be called demoralizing him. I love the little comment to that. Wow. Wow. Yeah. This is how the plant, this was plantation policies. Go ahead. No, I mean, it's exactly right. It's like, this is the real, if you really want to understand what was going on, this is the stuff that's going on. We all know about the whippings and the kunta kinte and the beatings and all this, but I love this because now you're getting into the into what it was really like. In fact, you are tuning my frequency here, Mo. I like it. And it's still like, because the same way they had studs back then, they have athletes and celebrities now, your LL Cool J's of the world.

25:48 What I mean by the quote-unquote sex sex Paul Kim Paul says, oh man, you're going to pick on him. No, what I'm saying is the fact that he was able to start in the early 80s and maintain this lane of being the fit hip guy, you know, also was capable. Well, I mean, one of the top rappers there is. He worked. I think we've talked about him before that he would be up at 1775 Broadway in my MTV days. And he'd walk in and we had a, it was for executives, you know, the whatever, the 15th floor. And there was a, you know, like an executive kind of waiting room where you'd wait until you were called.

26:32 LL Cool J would be up there all the time. He would always have meetings with the executives. He worked it. And so I got to put props on his name for that. He really worked it. No, no, what I'm saying is, no, he's one of the best. And you can make an argument for him being the actual GOAT of rapping for the longevity. Not in my book, but there's a case to be made. My issue is that he was sold as the buff rapper, you know, 50 cents the same way. Yeah. This is just a reiteration of this quote-unquote stud that, you know, this physical behemoth at the same time was had a skill of mastering words.

27:15 Yeah. Yeah. So and it's known, you see, even in churches or religious groups all around the world, that guy that has the people ear has an in-roll to women. Look at the preachers and how they always fall to some kind of sexual. How does Reverend Al do it, though? I'm surprised. Well, just saying. I'm going to move past that. Maybe we'll get back to Reverend Al at a later date because he does play into this as well. But these words, this mastering of words, to a lot of people, black preachers, and you wonder how we got from Negro spirituals to preachers.

28:01 Preachers are the original MC. I mean, literally, you know what I'm saying? That's master of the ceremony. Yeah. So you wonder, to most people, it sounds like a bunch of hollering and whatever else. No, there's a sweet science to actually what they call hooping. And this is Reverend Jasper Williams, and he's going to break down the science to you in three parts. This is the first part. And the Lord says, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so, sons of sons of so-and-so.

28:41 And you're ready to hoop now. But you've been going up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, until hoop time. You ain't got nowhere else to go. So you start straining. All right, now, no reflection. Now, EV is a master at his own art in his own way. But if you notice EV, EV, Hallelujah, so so. Praise his name.

29:17 Silence, so. The EV can't go up no further. All right, because he's not a naturally gifted preacher. Now, what I detected about myself was when I go up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up. up, up, up, up. And what I had to do was talk my way back down. This is very interesting. This is anyone who's been on stage with a microphone knows that when you have a group of people and you're able to capture their attention, you can very just with words and just with your rhythm and the tone, you can manipulate, well, manipulate.

30:02 You can move the people. Like the simplest one is, everybody happy. I said, is everybody happy? And, you know, in today's DJs, you get a TS star. It's like, up the top, and here's the drop. It's all the same thing. People resonate with that. But this, of course, is a very specific skill. And it's capturing, I think is the word that best fits. As you capture the audience, they're locked in with you. They're on the same beat as you because you got to have a beat to have call and response. And you hear the whole time as he's doing, and he's just doing so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so. But the feeling and him running up that scale, it takes the people up emotionally.

30:47 And this is that frequency I'm talking about because some people might not feel it, but their voices are tuned to a certain frequency and a certain rhythm that it inspires that call and response. And I want to make people understand that this is not, oh, just get up and start yelling, whatever. No, this is years and years and years of practice. The reason why I know is, I mean, I grew up with going to a Baptist church that the Reverend was a very was the, I think, the dean of a seminary at Duke University. You see what I'm saying? Like, this man ate at my table.

31:31 Yeah. So, and my family, I have a little bit of exposure to it as a, as a new Christian. Our church is a Bible church, but it is inspired on Baptist churches. And from time to time, we'll have a visiting pastor, this Ados pastor, I forget where he comes from. And man, he grabs people. And everyone's always happy when he shows up. It's like, oh, okay, this is going to be exciting. It's going to be something new. And he has that rhythm. And he's able to do it with white people too. Yeah. So when time to hoop, I said, and so the Lord said, so and so, so-and-so. And he went on, and you see, and he came on down the way the Lord said. And I will go on down, my brother and my sister.

32:15 And so-and-so, so-and-so. I'm where I want to be. See, because I found my king. All right, now, what does this mean? Since I found where my tune is most comfortable at, it means simply this: that if I'm at the key where I want it and I'm tuning good because I'm relaxed down here, it means that if I can't go nowhere else, I can at least go back to where I was because I was there. And anywhere you would, you can go back to it.

32:56 Cool. Two points I want to make. I left the room for you to make it just in case you caught the, you know, where you've heard this before. This is Hillary Clinton. Oh, it's funny. I'm always tired. That's what she was trying to do. Tired no more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Which we called it with code switching. Right. But this is the science that she was trying to tap into. And Obama slightly does it. You know, he does it just enough to tune. Like, he's what they call a tuner. He's not a hooper. And there's different categories that we're going to hear because this is the different flows that's in hip-hop.

33:40 Oh. Actually, while I was listening to that, you know what sprung to mind? Oh, of course, Hillary Makes Sense. When Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall in their movies, they do a takeoff of a preacher. Yeah. At the Coming to America. Yes. Yeah. At the pageant. I was like, it was like a beauty pageant, a fundraiser. Yeah. Yeah. And just another recent phenomenon. Remember the kid in Tennessee with the big Afro? And he gave that code switch speech that got everybody all riled up. It was a black kid when they had this. Oh, yeah, yeah. When he was

34:25 in the state senate. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, all of a sudden. This is this. Right, right, right, right. So it's a very powerful science. And I just want, what I'm trying to do is untrivialize it. And if people understand the power of spoken word, then they will understand, used in this manner. They will understand what is the power of hip-hop and why it has to be corraled. Okay. All right. This is the final part. Three. All right. So since I'm down here now, and then the Lord says, so and so, so and so.

35:03 So and so. Back to where I was. And 9.9 tenths of the time, because I went down and got the tune, I can go out, James Brown, James Brown, right there. I was waiting for it. I was waiting for it. See? So, in essence, what I'm telling you is this: that when you go up to the bottom of your sign, if you're a kind of person that can't shift and not naturally gift, and maybe some of us who are gifted, it may help the gift to even be more so.

35:45 What you do is go up to that point, allow and hard and drive all you want. But when time to tune, talk your way back down to where you're comfortable. Level off that, and when time to holler, you can you know you're going with ease. Go back to where you were, and because you relaxed, more than likely, you can't hide it. Ain't nothing else I can tell y'all. What was the context of this, Mo? Because I love it. I love this. Where was this from? This was a seminary, seminary seminar.

36:27 Those are other preachers in the room that he was instructing, you know, and it's old school because he got like the white folding pad and the marker. He's showing them how to go up on the scale. But this is what rap I keep saying it, but I have to just drill it home. When you hear these people rapping and the bars coming out of their mouth, it's registering with the same magnitude. Got it. Different manner, but same magnitude. Now, do you think that that is because it's cultural or is it truly embedded in the human?

37:09 The resonance to these frequencies? I think we're all on different timings. Because when you go around the world, Chinese music moves on a different time signature. Yeah. I remember being in Thailand. I was in a staying, I was doing a documentary at a hill tribe up near the Burmese border. And it's basically only the women, the men are all zonked out in the opium den. And at night, they, you know, they say, oh, we'll do it. We'll do our special festival party for you. And so, and they had this rhythm and dance. I could not get into their rhythm.

37:49 And they'd laugh at me, like, oh, don't you feel it? Like, no, it was really weird. It's a different timing, completely different. With Hula, the same thing with, you know, what's the South American music? The Samba, I think it is. Salsa. Salsa, you know, I think it's another one too. But I mean, just the rhythms are different. And if you're not on that time timing, it's just impossible to catch. And I think we all have a unique timing to ourselves. Now, you can train yourself. All this can be learned. I'm not saying that, you know, it's exclusive to certain groups of people and it can't be learned.

38:30 Because if you notice on American Idol, everybody comes up there singing with an RB twinge to their voice. It's been a while since I've watched American Idol, I'll be honest with you. But I can see what you're saying. Even in the inception of it, you know, it was this, what they call Blue Eyes Soul. Justin Timberlake lended to this a little bit, you know, because when he went from in sync to the solo career, totally, totally. I mean, Cool and the Gang wrote a lot of songs for them. So it's the same thing. It's that timing. The Rolling Stones, they picked up off Muddy Waters and Holland Wolf and all those.

39:11 It can be learned. But with all I say, that when you start learning other people's stuff, it becomes commercialized and it washes out. It's kind of like what Malcolm Mitch said: you put too much milk in the coffee, and what do you have? And I think that's what we have with mainstream music. And it's a quick aside, it's when I heard you doing your new show, with the music, Boostagram Ball. Yes. It's like the separate, sependipitous, sependipity. Yeah, serendipitous. There we go. We got it. Serendipity. Between the two of us will get there, Mo. We'll get it. We'll get it there. But no, the actual.

39:55 See, there it went. Between the two of us, it was like, this is exactly what I'm talking about. It's amazing that I had no clue you were doing that. And you had no clue I was doing this show, this set of shows, but it lines up because it's the freedom to let the people choose. You know, if you do that, then it can't be hijacked. There's a quick aside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's okay. Just to keep that aside for a moment, I just did episode five of Boostagram Ball. And here's the things that really struck me coming from a radio background.

40:33 First of all, in mainstream radio, your selection is very limited. Yeah, you got decades of back catalog, but the stuff that you actually wind up playing on almost any radio station is a very small, maybe 100 songs. Very limited. I'm seeing completely new styles, things that I've never even thought about as types of music because it's always been so categorized for me. And so just the freedom that people are exhibiting is

41:15 something very, very powerful. And yeah, I mean, quite honestly, I'm hoping and I know it's coming. I'm waiting for hip-hop, not for me to play. I'm waiting for hip-hop songs to be played by hip-hop podcasters. I'm waiting for worship music. I'm waiting for all of this. I mean, this to me is one of the most exciting moments in my life. So to have you bring this is fantastic. And what I believe you've done is re-centered the DJ into the middle of the music conversation. The discovery mechanism. This is what radio used to be. You'd listen to your favorite radio DJ because he, oh, he's playing something cool.

41:59 Oh, listen to this. Not because he had the funniest jokes or the quips or the one-liners, which is kind of what radio has become today. And the music has become a secondary, almost like tapestry, you know, that's just on the wall of putting the DJ center as a funny man or a comedian. And that really came in the 90s. Like, oh, now DJs got to be comedians. But for me, it's like, it's Monday. I'm a little, I'm still a little jet lagged. I'm going to search for something. I'm going to play this. And yeah, it's discovery. Something we completely lost in the last 20, maybe even 30 years.

42:37 Well, we didn't lose it. It was replaced with the algorithm, the suggestion algorithm that would just feed you instead of a human actually curating and saying, okay, I'll think you, if you like my taste, then I think you quote unquote dig these records. Yeah. And people will call in and say, hey, I like that one. Or then that's when you get the feedback loop, the feedback. You know, those contests is like thumbs up, thumbs down. But like, you know what I'm saying? Play it or play it or whatever it was. But make it or break it. Yeah. Yeah. You have that whole feedback loop. So, I mean, just as a quick aside, it's going to be very important. And I think it's timely that that happened.

43:20 And I was at the same time I was doing it down this rabbit hole. So I think it's. Good, because I'm expecting some Mo Fax music to be uploaded pretty soon. I know you got it. Oh, yeah. I know you got it. That's my first love. I can't lie. And this is why this show is so important to me. But let's get back to the hooping. And this is Dr. Edward L. Branch and his take on it. For us in the African-American church world, it is an integral part of who we are. And it fits in well

44:00 for us, you know. And I want to say as well that as a quote-unquote hooper, I mean, what becomes a challenge for us, us who are known to be, and especially those of us who are. you know, true hoopers. Now, you know, when you talk about a hooper, it's not just a tuner, there's some preachers who can tune, you know, so they can grab a note and they can, you know, they can tune, they can cruise along that note. That's one thing. There's some who can

44:41 holler and holler on a note. And, you know, they go along and they hit that holla, you know, or whatever it might be. But that's not hooping. Okay. So it's different things. And it's different levels to like with rapping. Is there different levels to you might can rhyme words together, but it'll make me a rapper. You mean like Vivek? Exactly. Well, I ain't going to put him in. What I mean is quote unquote competent rappers that, like, okay, that's pretty good.

45:19 But then there's the next level when, and one thing I wanted to bring up before was with sermons, there's the three I's, right? There's information, interpretation, and inspiration. So the information is what you pack into your sermon. Like what I'm trying to get you to, you know, understand. The interpretation is how you took it. You know, and then the inspiration is like the power, this, this power output, but where I keep saying it's that feeling that, you know, when you leave church, you feel better. Your buckets are filled. Right. And it carries you through the week. And the reason why this is so important is we got to think about back that

46:04 church was the social club. Church was the spiritual hospital. It was the center point for a very long time. And this is why when they wanted to get people to get clout, they would throw the revenue from your name. Yeah. Right? Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend Jesse Jackson go down the line because that gave you a certain credibility. And I think that's moved forward now to rap. And rap really lost its way. Well, I say, quote unquote, black music lost its way when it stopped being filtered through church.

46:47 Right? You used to have to go to church to play on a drum set or get access to a keyboard or learn how to sing and breath control. And then you will go out and become secular, as you'll hear later in the show. I just wanted to make that point. It's funny. I always felt that Whitney Houston had that in the beginning. And then Bobby Brown came in and ruined everything. You know what I mean? Like she came from the church. Am I going too far? No. The stories say that she was the wild one in the couple. No, I know. Yeah. Yeah, I know. But I'm just telling you how it always looked from the outside. It's like, oh, there comes Bobby Brown. No, agreed.

47:31 But that she started in the church and it had a lot to do. No, I think it had a lot to do with her relationships in general. But then her music also changed. Her music also went away from that. You know, there was a certain point that Whitney was very programmatic pop songs in my mind. And it's funny that we go this way, but it's very important to bring this up. At one point in black music, when she first was making her rise, quote unquote, the streets rejected Whitney Houston. Because she was singing at this rich kid,

48:12 quote unquote, poser. I don't say quote unquote too much, but I don't want to be like, make people think I'm saying this about her, but it was, you know, she's a poser. Her mom, Sissy Houston, she was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She was born on third base kind of thing. And here she comes making pop music. Because at the time, that's what it was. It was pop music. No, I remember interviewing her at the time. She's like, yeah, and because this, we were in Holland, so we kind of knew a little bit about what was happening with her and that rejection, although, you know, the just getting in, we didn't have the internet, so the information didn't flow as fast. And she would say, you know, I'm just singing.

48:52 I'm just who I am. I'm just singing who I am. And she was, she was, she seemed very genuine about that. Like, no, I'm just doing my thing here. And people can say what they want to say. Which it was who she was. She was born on third base. I mean, when you talk about the music industry, her mom was a legend in the church and secular music, you know, so. you can't say it's not, but what happened was she was somewhat rejected because of the authenticity. It's like that's that doesn't resonate with us. You know, I'm similar with Michael Jackson.

49:31 You know, that's what the whole I'm bad video was about: was man, I'm trying to make something different here, like thriller, and the world loves it, but people want to hear the old Michael Jackson. Yeah, you know, the off-the-wall, more soulful sound, and that's the struggle. That's why I wanted to bring it up because it's, it's these people are pulled in so many different ways across the secular line and staying Christian, and then across once you go secular, do you go commercial or do you stay quote-unquote urban? You know, so what is that person to do? And then you become isolated, like I believe she did, until you make it so big

50:14 that we got to claim you back in. Yeah. And that was kind of the beauty of Oliver Anthony: he said, Hey, you know, people offering me millions of dollars. I'm not interested. I'm just me. I'm not interested. I don't want to do any of it. I'm just making songs in my backyard. So, so we hear. Right. I think we stopped at two. Yep. Let's go ahead and get into number three. Wait a minute. No, I think we. No, excuse me. Oh, no, number 12. Number 12. Hooping is an art form, and it is based on musical scales. You know, as I was saying.

50:52 And usually the person who is a hooper is familiar with and in many cases also gifted as a singer. Okay. And who and though they may not know mechanically and intellectually exactly what they are doing, they know what they are doing when it comes to following musical tones and that. And to be able to do that at the same time that you are continuously giving a message and saying something of substance,

51:37 it takes work. And you sacrifice probably a number of good sermons in your efforts to develop that skill. Yeah, music theory, totally. Be a spoken word. That's the weird thing about it. So is it actually singing or is it spoken word? The same thing about rapping. Is rapping just a poem on a beat or is it actual music within itself? Right. So we're peeling back this onion. Yeah. I like it. To see which way it goes.

52:20 Let's just go ahead and get into 13. I had a friend. I had a friend who, I mean, he would tell me, he says, you know, I get my hoop together and then I decide what I'm going to preach. You know, and hey, he was a tremendous hooper and he was effective with it. But, you know, in most cases, the buildup, you know, from the start of that sermon, as I say to preachers for the preservation of the voice, because sometimes people, you know, want to know, you know, as a hooper, how do you, you know, keep your voice?

53:03 How do you, you know, preach four, five, six times in a week and, you know, still maintain your voice? The voice can do tremendous things if you treat it properly. If you abuse it, then you're going to spend most of your time hoarse or with a sore throat or whatever it may be. And so to build and to pay attention to that and to prepare the material in your sermon so that if this point requires a lot of energy and effort and passion to express, don't put that early in your sermon because

53:47 you're going to overload. You're going to burn yourself out. And many times the crowd is going to go with you. So they're going to take you up there and your voice won't be able to finish that message in many cases. Wow. There is a Baptist version, white Baptist preacher version is called the Holy Wine and W-H-I-N-E. It's that, it's that, um, what's called fire and brimstone, southern baptism part of that, and also and putting it you know who you know who has a similar cadence to that? No, Alex Jones.

54:27 Ooh, when he gets the rolling, like when he's really on his roll, yeah, you're right. He has that Southern Baptist. That's why I knew exactly what you were talking about when you said that. It's that old-time church wood floor, you were saying, feeling. And what brought my attention to this, because I was just like, this is what we do. But I remember like on public access television, they had these two church shows that used to come on. One was in Spanish, but he had the exact cadence of a hooper. And I was like, okay, well, okay, I'll just file that away. And then there was a Korean church.

55:09 Cool. Straight up and down, all Korean, you know what I'm saying? No English. And he had the same exact thing. And it was like, hold on. You know, it just caught my interest. Like, maybe start looking at it a little deeper and like, this is a vehicle. You know, that's just like when you hear rappers, you know, you could hear a rapper in French. And you, okay, it's like, okay, you're, you're rapping like an American. Right. If it's, if that's understood, because it's the, it's the pattern of the flow that you could pick up on. So, all right. So now we had to go back to Mr. Jasper Williams. Now, you tell me if this is a, is this a fishtail or not?

55:51 This is Jasper Williams having him, somebody important ask him to teach them how to hoop. That's exactly true. We were on the outside of a hotel with a lot of preachers standing around. I can't remember just what the occasion was, but he said, Jasper, Jasper, this is Martin Luther King Jr. saying, Jasper, Jasper, that voice, the way you do your voice, can you show me how to do that? I said, Dr. King, I don't need to show you how to do that. What do you mean, Jasper? You don't need to show me how to do that. I said, because you got that ring in your voice that nobody else has.

56:32 I mean, you know, I got a dream. I had a dream. I said, I mocked him a little bit. He said, no, no, no, I want to go up a little higher. I said, to do what? He said, that thing that you do. I want to know how to do that. I said, well, Doctor, let me tell you, I have the philosophy that everybody can hoop who wants to hoop. And so whenever you get time and you want me to seriously sit down and show you what I think you could do with your voice as it relates to being a hooper, I'd be glad to do that. But no, I am telling you this. I don't think you need to hoop no more than you have that pretty whine when you speak and when you preach.

57:15 And we all chuckled about that. There's that wine you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Because it's like a crossover. M.O.K. was a crossover artist, really. That's exactly why I think he, if true, that would be the reason why he wanted to hoop. It's like that I have a dream speech will fly for the nation. But when you go back home to these down south churches, you got to come with the real. I mean, not take anything away from Dr. King, but as you see, even himself, if his story is true, he was like, this resonates with a certain crowd, but I need to reach another kind of crowd.

58:02 And it's similar to what you were saying about Whitney Houston. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, born on third break base and preaching. So it's like, no, you're here because of who your dad is and who your granddad was. So I'm sure there were some insecurities in not having what I'm going to play next, a real hooper. This is Jasper Williams in action, but I think he was insecure about that. I got power, preaching power, teaching power, singing power, playing power, healing power, all that

59:03 power. He's got power. You know, when Hosen went battling to the auction lot and Bill Govang he had his feet. And I heard her saying, He said, Get up, woman. I don't need no slave. I need me and

59:48 I wish I had a winnish here. God told me to tell you, he don't need no slave. That's another way of reading scripture. That's great. Didn't, but did you pick up the BB King and the Janet? As you mentioned, James Brown. Oh, yeah, all of it, of course. Of course. And I even hear Eddie Murphy's takeoff. I'm like, what did James just say? I mean, it's all in there. It's all in there. And it's the space for the call and response. That's the time of thing I'm saying.

1:00:30 I have to stop. I know you're going to hit your mark as an audience. Everybody's on cue. And time to hit their call and respond. And I'm going up these scales musically at the same time as pacing the crowd. I don't know if you've ever been in an environment with that, but there is electricity. And this is why a lot of people, Jim Jones and people, you know, use the pulpit to pull off mass mind control because that power is real. And people are open to receive it because a lot of times when you go to church, you either need your battery charged, you know, or you got something heavy on you and you're opening yourself up to be

1:01:17 reached. And that, like I said, that's a very, and it carries over to music. And it's all went down the line. You can hear the blue. Inspiration. Go ahead. Oh, no, even the simplest. Everybody say hey. Hey, everybody say ho. Ho. I mean, even that's the simplest form of it. And even if you don't know what they're saying, here's an example of African origin of call and response followed by an American version of it. Missicupan.

1:02:13 All right, everybody. I just got back from my tour in England. Everybody's talking about the rock and cravo in England. It's a crave. Everybody love it. I just finished my tour in Germany. I just left Italy. I went on down in Sweden. I stopped over in Belgium. And I went on down in France. I went over in Australia. Everybody's shaking. They're rocking in rhythm. And oh, they're having a good time. And I just made it back around and let you know that it's time for you to shake. I want you to get it. Come on over, baby. Home on the shaking.

1:02:59 Little Richard, of course. I love it. I love how the band is like, bam, the band is just like a shit. Everybody is in rhythm and it's only in sync. Yeah, I love it. That's the rhythm I'm speaking of. And you heard it with even the African example. I don't know what the heck they were saying, but they were on time. And even his delivery wasn't the same every time. It was shorter than longer, but they were still hitting it right on time. So people may ask, well, that's trivial. You know what I'm saying? What are you talking about? All right. This is where the story gets personal.

1:03:37 My grandfather worked on the railroad, my father's father, up until the point where he was given an ultimatum to bust somebody's head or go home. Luckily, he chose to go home because he was like, hey, I got seven kids. But he was part of a group called Gandhi Dancers. And these next clips are going to explain what it is, but I'll briefly explain so everybody won't be in the dark. These are the guys that would straighten the railroads with these long poles. They would tend to the whole railroad system, except I mean, like the whole rail system. But this one specific job had

1:04:21 a certain need to be on cadence to move these heavy rails. You with me? Yeah, because everyone had to move, pull the pipes at the same time. Simultaneously. Timing. 16. The work calls these retired railroad laborers are demonstrating grow out of a tradition they help shape. In the segregated South, it was primarily African-American men who served as the custodians of the railway lines, laying and maintaining tracks by hand labor. These section crews were known as Gandhi dancers.

1:05:03 They worked for companies like the Southern, LN, and Seaboard, doing what was considered the most physically demanding and the lowest-paying jobs on the railroad. Gandhi dancers were expected to lay new rail, replace rotten cross ties, repair tracks damaged by floods, and tightly pack or tamp the gravel bed on which the rails lay. But most of their time was spent straightening sections of track that had been pounded out of alignment by the tremendous and frequent weight of passing trains. Using five-foot steel lining bars, each weighing over 20 pounds, gangs pulled in unison, inching the track back into line.

1:05:47 Coordination and timing of each man's exertion was critical. One member of the gang, the caller, synchronized the group's physical movements with his voice, ensuring safety and pacing while spiritually uplifting the men at their work. Man, I never hear this when they're talking about racism. This is good. The caller. I like it. So this is a metaphor in itself that left unattended. If we get on the same frequency moving the same way, you're capable of anything, capable of moving railroad tracks that need to be straightened through rock, capable of doing more than the individual parts can do alone.

1:06:32 It's like that some one plus one equals three mentality. And I think that the people that want to control this world understand that. And this is the reason why they had to keep it under their thumb. Now, I'm going to go, this might be a Space Jam reach, but I don't know if you watch space watch Shrek movies. I don't know if you've seen them or not. No, I'm sorry. No. Well, there was one with Rumpel Steelskin, right? And he called in the, he was the bad guy, the villain. And he called in the Pod Piper. And the Pod Piper could set his flute to any animal or ogre. And he would play, and the ogres would dance however he wanted them to dance, which I think that was an allusion to.

1:07:17 Now, here's Reach. The allusion to if you can control the music, you can control the movement of the people. Oh, yes. I mean, this has been, I think, the most recent example that a lot of people know about is Hitler's boy Goebbels. Yeah. Who would play Ride of the Valkyries before every speech? It would rile people up. You know, there's the whole 432 Hertz, you know, changing where A starts, all this stuff, sure. Every drummer has, every army has a drummer. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

1:08:03 I don't care how old the army is, every army has a drummer. And there's something to that beat, it's something to that cadence, and there's something to the collective effort, which you got to have timing, just like with a motor or anything else. The gears had to be spinning on a certain timing with the timing belt to maximize force, which I think that this is where the control comes in: that they are fearful. As they should be. You know, if you're trying to run a one-world government, you got to make sure you control the voices or you introduce your own voices into the fray to mislead the people.

1:08:43 Oh, this is going to be interesting with the value for value music system we've started. They're not going to take that lightly, is what I'm thinking now. No, when the big guys show up, like, hurry. Curry, play this record, Curry. We know how that goes. Sure, sure. GBG. Exactly. 17. Exactly. We had one fellow, he was saying, he was a good son. And he sang to the temple.

1:09:28 And he said, I got the St. Louis Blues. I'm just as blue as I can be. I got St. Louis Blues. I just blue as I can be. And so we had a white boy and we'd make him sing too, you know. And his name was Mr. Chen. I never wouldn't get it. It's your time to sing. I sang to him. So he'd sang it. He said, I got the same damn thing. The nigga say hey. I got sand damn thing. The nigga say he has. And we would always boost him. Say that.

1:10:14 Oh, that's good to know. Goes to show you that they're in the same boat, but it's different. You know, this is what is perplexing about the race conversation. Because you can have people in the same socioeconomic levels or close, but there's still a difference. And can you explain it? It's hard to explain. And they do a great job of confusing everybody with it. But this is why me and you had this conversation. Well, how? How about this for a second? So, and the reason is, as you pointed out right on early on, is frequency. What is light and color? It's just frequency. Just a different frequency. Yeah.

1:10:58 It's frequency, but it's a different frequency. So as I'm, and as we're going through this, I'm thinking, yeah, you know, people will resonate differently based upon frequencies that are inherent to them. So even melanin can have, you know, can have a different frequency. I'm thinking now. That's part of what this is. And I think every frequency is needed. It's like saying, oh, we only want certain bands of light. You know, we don't need, we don't need Roy. You know what I'm saying? Just give me GDM. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, good point. So all of it's needed, you know, but at the same time, you can manipulate those frequencies to make them look like you want to.

1:11:41 And it's kind of like with a diode, right? Yeah. A lightamine diode. You can tune that frequency to make it whatever color you want it to be right on. So this is the mass mind control. So going forward, here's an example of a legendary. I remember him from school, John Henry. You would get this with the Paul Bunyan and it was a something Pecos. What is his because they had one like it was a Mexican character or Paul Bunyan was quote unquote the white character. And then John Henry was the black character of these mythical figures, you know, the babe and his blue ox, you know, you know, that kind of thing.

1:12:24 And here's the story behind that. And it falls in line with the train story. Telecon, West Virginia. Here at the foot of the Allegheny Mountains lies a decommissioned railroad tunnel known as the Great Bend Tunnel. According to folklore, this was the site of a famous legend from the 1870s about a superhuman railroad worker named John Henry. The legend is that John Henry was 6'6, 280 pounds, muscular, solid, glistening.

1:13:02 You could see him half a mile away. The legend has it that he was born in enslavement and he had all these goals for his family coming out of enslavement. And he says, I want a good job. I want to provide for my family. And he saw the casino railroad laying track. And John Henry shows up and says, I'm your guy. The fable has it that any man who signed up to work would get 50 acres of land if they completed the railroad. Then sometimes this railroad had to be completed through a mountain. And so John Henry not simply laid rail, the railroad track, but he had to drive a stake into the rock, which creates enough space to then load dynamite.

1:13:47 John Henry was the best steel driver. driver. And then here comes a man with the steam drill. The legend speaks of this race taking place between John Henry and the machine. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. John Henry and in fact, you know, we have two Bitcoin miners here at the house. One of them is Rosie the Riveter. That's Tina's. And mine is John Henry. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. The machine had to have a name, right? Just on the network. Right. I'm like, what's the most famous miner I know? John Henry. And then John Henry battled the machine. He did. I know. I know. And he won. And then the way I remember the story, he died of a heart attack right on the spot after he beat the machine.

1:14:33 Yeah, goggles curry. Oh, boy. I'm sorry. No, it was worth it. But no, that's just amazing that you use John Henry as the name because this is what read me being who I am. You know, they break out these books. I'm like, give me the black character. You know, this is. And it was, okay, John Henry. But you know what? As I look back to 2020 when I was doing this show, George Floyd has a lot of imagery to John Henry. Yeah, a lot of the size, the stature. Yeah. Go look at those statues that they made of George Floyd.

1:15:17 It's the imagery is there, and we have to talk about subconscious things resonate with us that we don't even realize resonate with us. Wow. And it didn't resonate to me until I heard her start describing John Henry's features. And it's like, dang, that sounds like George Floyd. Which is that, was that a manipulation tactic? Who knows? Or is it something that just is inherent and people gravitate toward it because that story has been told for generations? Right. And this is the archetype for what I was talking about before: the 50 Cents, the

1:15:54 LL Cool J's, the LeBron James, even, you know, these myths, these superhuman, you know, superhuman figures that give hope. Shaq. Shaq is another perfect example, which was who? The man of steel. Yeah. 19. As the story goes, there was a competition between John Henry and the machine to see which of them could drill farms into the side of the mountain in a single day. During the contest, the strength of John Henry was reportedly so powerful that the blows from his twin sledgehammers shook the mountain itself.

1:16:39 The story is that the steam drill only went nine feet, John Henry went 14. And so John Henry is superhuman and more supreme than the machine. John Henry beats the machine in this competition, but he passes away. He dies of a heart attack. He dies from overexertion. And what we have here is John Henry begins to symbolize this overpowering physique of a muscle man and the ability to achieve in the face of extreme odds.

1:17:22 The legend of John Henry represents this black man, this hero, who did superhuman feats from the 19th century. It overshadows the harshness of the Reconstruction period, but it also shows us how black men who were able-bodied, who had that spirit of willing to do anything they needed to do to provide for their families. Wow. Wow. Good clip. And this is, like you said, this alludes to this, and they go on into the superhuman conversation and that longer part of that piece that lends to Superman. Let me ask you a question. What do you think the significance is in the story? So he would do anything for his family.

1:18:07 We got that. He was stronger. He was better than the machine. But yet at the end, he dies. What is Christ? What'd I do without you, Mo? He won. He won. He won. But he had to die. And as in is going to come up, I'm just going to go ahead and put it out there. We got to start having a conversation about AI, specifically in music. Okay. This is the same. This is the repackage story. Here comes a machine that says that it can out. outperform humans. Who will be the John Henry fighting against the AI music?

1:18:52 It has to be done, or they're setting it up to where it's going to be very basically build your own music. That's where they're going with this to where you write the song that you want it to hear. Right now, we're not, we're a long way off from that, but we're fat. It's fast, you know, it's we're fastly approaching, but we're a long way off, if that makes sense. Um, because with the with the um new modern technology, it's gonna be just type in the words and Drake will sing it for you.

1:19:29 And then, right, I mean, you know, you and I may be not entirely aligned on this because my feeling is just looking at what AI is doing with words. Man, people who really work with words are like, this is crap. Um, yeah, it can, you can have it, you can have Drake do a song the way you set it up, but it's always going to be Drake. It's not, it's nothing. I have yet to hear something new to me. It's all remix, you know, it's all that's the point it's going to get to. It's just going to be a regurgitation, but it's going to be what it'll do is put the user center like listen to my version of Drake songs, right? Which I don't think I don't think will be very successful. Just to me, that's that's not how art works.

1:20:15 Well, let's just be honest: 85% of people's taste in music sucks, and they only and they only honest and they gravitate towards what's fed to them. This is what made the DJ so important because he could go through and pick these records and put together, you know. Ah, let me say, let me say another thing I've noticed. Thank you for bringing that up. I now know inherently, of course, I know this repetition makes hits, but I didn't realize that even on a show that has its first episode, like 6,000 people download, it was not, you know, it comes out of the blue, right?

1:20:50 There's no promotion, just do it. And I realized three episodes in, I've played one song each show, and now it's a hit. It's just, and it was, and only I've been playing it one guy, but to these 6,000 people, like, oh, this song is a hit. This thing is great. But I could do that with any song that's good. Anything that's good. That's the ear. Yes. Yes. Yes. But I didn't realize how. Well, I did realize it, but not until you really understand the radio and the music business, which is, you know, now it's really automated. It's just, you know, if every station everywhere on the dial is pumping out the same song for weeks at a time, it's just going to be a hit unless it's a total piece of crap.

1:21:36 It's going to work. And this is the mind-blowing thing for me. It's not necessarily the best song, but it's a song that has a catchy thing that is presented to you over and over again. And then it just becomes, I wake up singing some of these songs because you have a great taste in music and people appreciate that, which that's why it's called taste. I mean, people, a lot of people are taste dumb, if that's a word. It's like, do you not taste that? It's like the palette for wine, right? You know, you give an average person some wine. They don't taste the difference. Like, I taste the taste the wood that the barrel, you know, that maple, you know, that kind of thing.

1:22:20 It's like, no, it's wine. But Andres is still pretty popular. You know, it comes in a box. So, you know, because that's what's available to the people. You know, when you go to the store, and this is what curating is all about. It's like, I'm not going to go to Walmart and pick my wine. I'm going to ride out to the countryside and find a vineyard that nobody's heard of to find that one bottle of wine that's going to shine at the dinner. And this is what we're doing with music and everything else, which is not to harp on the point, but you centering the curator is decentralized. I mean, it's centralization and decentralizing at the same time.

1:23:00 Exactly. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Focus on me, trust my ear, and I'm going to give you some great music, which that's why people tune into DJs. And that's why people went to shows because it's like, oh, DJ so-and-so got a killer set. He's playing albums I never heard before. He has break beats I never heard before. You know, to the point where you got to start covering up your album labels, you know, because everybody's going to start trying to still curry. What do you got? Build a curry algorithm. How's he thinking? You know, so with that said, I just want to show you how. John Henry has went on and carried on the legend.

1:23:43 This is Harry Belafonte, I think, in the 1950s. And this is the John Henry song. And we possibly can go into the donation segment after this. John Henry, he could hammer. He could whistle, he could sing. Went to the mountain early in the morning just to hear his hammer ring, Lord Lord, just to hear his hammer ring. And just to hear his hammer ring, Lord Lord, just to hear his hammer ring. When John Henry was a little baby, sitting on his daddy's knee, picked up a hammer and a little piece of steel. Said, Hammer be the death of me, Lord God. Yes, Hammer be the death of me.

1:24:26 Yes, Ham will be the death of me, Lord Lord. Yes, Ham will be the death of me. Well, John Henry's family needed money, said he didn't have but a dime. If you wait till the rise of sun goes down, I'll get it from the men in the mine. Lord, Lord, I'll get it from the man in the mine. I'll get it from the man in the mine, Lord Lord. I'll get it from the man in the mine. Well, the captain said to John Henry, John Henry, what can you do? I can hoist a jack, I can lay a track, I can pick and shovel too. Lord God, I can pick and shovel too. I can pick and shovel too, Lord Lordie. I can pick and shovel too.

1:25:10 Belt Henry said to the captain, Oh man, ain't nothing but a man. But let your steed beat me down. Well, I'll die with the hammer in my hand, Lord God. I'll die with the hammer in my hand. Yes, I'll die with the hammer in my hand, Lord Lord. I'll die with the hammer in my hand. First, the white man and the black man have to be able to sit down at the same table. The white man has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of that Negro. And the so-called Negro has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of the white man. Then they can bring the issues that are under the rug out on top of the table and take an intelligent approach to get the problem solved. That's the only way that they'll ever do it. And we are definitely doing that here today once again.

1:30:53 We have a dollar. Mo, I'm curious what your thoughts are on the book To Kill a Mockingbird, and also wondered if you have ever heard of or read an American plague concerning the yellow fever epidemic in Philadelphia in 1993. Blacks came to the rescue and were poorly treated despite their generosity. Such a shame. God bless you both and keep up the important work of educating the masses. All right, Mo, To Kill a Mockingbird. Your thoughts? To kill a Mockingbird? That's ninth grade, I want to say. Probably. So it's a little hazy. And I haven't read the American Plague, but To Kill a Mockingbird. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It just didn't register with me.

1:31:38 No. It's being, isn't it being pulled out of schools to Kill a Mockingbird? Yeah, I don't know why. I mean, it's nothing memorable from the book, but oh, I understand why they're trying to, at least to understand what people will have an issue with. Well, wasn't it basically written for the white man's perspective, To Kill a Mockingbird? This wasn't. They say the white savior. Yeah. You know, and it was more about the relationship, I think, between him and his daughter. That was like the center point. And then the child, of course. So a swing and a miss. I mean, that's all we got. It's a good book. I mean, for the time, but

1:35:47 And we're not going to get to much of it in this show. Like I said, I'm laying the underpinnings of what the higher infinite power is and why a person like Jager Hoover and many other people want to keep a lid on the messaging that gets out. The pen is more mighty than the sword. And the spoken word, I think, is even more powerful because it can motivate people in a certain way, as we heard in the first eclipse. With that said, this goes back to 1943. I saw multiple different dates, but early 40s.

1:36:26 This is the Jubilina Jubilanaires, Noah. And this possibly could be the first rap performance ever. He spoke to Noah. Oh, no. I'm about to go to ride on the way in Tyler.

1:37:34 Well, after the foundation were late. Then Noah began to human build. The ringing of the hammer, that judgment. The humans of the salt type sail repent. A hundred years he hammered and sold. Billing the ark by the grace of God. When the ark was done, God's voice was heard. He said, Now, Noah, let me tell you what to do. Call in the animals two by two. So he called them in an ark. Two by two, we call the bird. The ox with the kangaroos. And he called. And Jeff, the hammer sham. Then Rock began to flood the land. He raised his hands from heaven on high. Shoot the stars and moon from the sky. Shoot the mountain. He traveled to see. Hit the wind to his chariot wheel. He stepped on land, stood on the show. And declared that time there wouldn't be no more birds. Oh, no.

1:38:24 Under Noah. Wow. You can kind of hear the Negro spiritual in there. At the same time, you can hear the modern rap. It sounds a lot like the message. The flow in it. Go ahead. I mean, from Grandmaster Flash. The Flash and the Furious Fire. Yeah, if you listen to the flow, it's the same flow. I'm going to have to do it again. And the weird part is that it's the same instruments as the dude from North of Richmond.

1:39:05 That's just a guitar and voices. Yeah. Same instruments, but different, different, whole different vibe. Now, as when you have something good going, the devil always has to creep in. And this was captured in the Ray Charles movie. The thief only comes in to steal and kill Mo. Yeah, and destroy. And this is from the Ray Charles movie when he's playing gospel chords and remixing the spirituals in a secular way. And this was a huge issue in this time period. And we're going to get into a little later

1:39:43 very soon here. But the struggle between the talent being used for God's word and monetary gain by the church, or if secular forces could come in and draw the talent away. But this is Ray Charles in the club, and it gets crashed by some believers. Hold on, wait a minute, now we're going to break your hands off with it. You know what I'm saying? That's what you're doing. Hold on. You got a problem. Yeah, I got a problem.

1:40:32 That's gospel you saying. You're turning God's music into sex. You're making money off the law. Don't y'all smile at me. All of y'all in two. All of y'all going shake to hell. She's right. I need to come on. No, you're spanking Jesus. You gotta activate what you believe. You'll be going to hell by yourself. No, I'm not going to cast on the show. Just find me a fair play by tomorrow. I just want to ask the folks right now. If all of y'all want me to keep playing, let me hear you say amen. Let's go, y'all. Keep it going. Here we go. Keep going. Come on.

1:41:24 Was this from a movie or was this an actual recording in the club? No, that was Jamie Foxx. Oh, okay. Playing Ray Charles in the movie. Right. But this is well documented. This struggle was well documented in the five heartbeats. You had family disown family members because they strayed away from the church. Yeah, there were big gospel music outside of the church. Right. And there's two reasons. One, because of the spiritual reason, but there was also economic reasons for them not wanting to go outside the church because

1:42:04 this was highlighted in the color purple. You had the church, and then you had them building the jute joint. You know, those were rivals for eyes, ears, economic reasons. You know, every dollar that goes out to the jute joint doesn't go to the church. You know, and the church was a big source of entertainment. You know, that's why the jute joint, and that's why him and his daughter, the pastor in the church, and his daughter, Shuk Avery, you know, that was a big merging at the end of the movie. One of the semi-climax moments is when she starts seeing God going to tell you something and she takes it into the church.

1:42:48 Now, that could be symbolic because that was the secular being allowed into the church house. Right. You know, with the instruments and drums and whatever else, because I have a next clip from Nillie Fuller. At that time, there was big pushback for even the piano being in the church because it was seen as the devil's box. Really? Oh, man. Back in the days when I was much younger, 10, 12 years old. Sometimes people would say that if you had a piano in a church, that's the type of sound that you did not want in a church.

1:43:28 If it's a real, what you call, country Baptist, serious, Jesus-worshiping church, you do not have that devil's instrument in that church called a piano because that same type of apparatus, that same type of box was in what they call the barrel houses, the houses of ill repute, the houses where you had prostitutes and people drinking bootleg liquor, etc., etc. So you didn't want that same type of box in a house of worship. There were elderly people who said that.

1:44:13 I'm not going to that church anymore. They got that devil's box in there. See, so is that a devil's box? Maybe. Maybe not. See, these are questions that should be answered. Wow. I didn't know this. The devil's box. I like it. Now, I wasn't around with that struggle because I always me going to church. The piano and the organ were staples in the church. But I do remember pushback against the drum set because, like I said, I was raised in a Baptist church in the South, Black Southern Baptist Church.

1:44:54 Drums were saying, oh, no, no, drums is one step too far. And I even remember, this is something a conversation I remember hearing being had was the keyboard. Right. That was a very contentious situation because it's like you're going away from the old gospel sound of just the organ and the piano. And that's what I'm saying about the shift, right? Before they wouldn't even let the piano in, and the piano crept in, and the organ crept in, then the drums crept in. Then the keyboard, Cassio keyboard, which had the built-in drum system in it.

1:45:38 And now your service is sounding very secular. Interesting. It was a huge push, but I'll remember this to this day. It was, you know, and some even churches only sang hymns from the hymnal church. It wasn't no, you know, singing whatever, even quote-unquote gospel music on the radio. You didn't bring that in the church. Now you had the quote-unquote, I keep saying it, I got to stop it. The inspirational choir. That was the younger choir. And oftentimes, this guy traveled around between churches because he had the keyboard. And he would do a set here. And then next week, he'd be over at this next church and next church.

1:46:21 And he would bring the ringers in. You know, it was one of the best shows that you could have from the inspirational choir. But at the same time, there was slippage on what was allowed and wasn't allowed. That's interesting because when I first started going to the church out here, and we have what we call corporate worship music, my main problem, what took some getting used to, was there's no solos. It's like, where's the solo? Play guitar for like 20, you know, like five bars or something just without anyone singing.

1:47:01 It's very interesting how, you know, that's, it's kind of like, no, no, no, we don't do solos in church. Really interesting. And it's funny that you bring that up because that hill song type vibe, I think that was the one that Bieber went to. You know, that church that Justin Bieber and all the stars was going to. Yeah. This real, what do you call it, corporate, corporate worship music? Corporate. Yeah. And that, by the way, is not meant as a slam. That's what it's called. It's called corporate in the form of the corporate people getting together. But it's double entendre as far as I'm concerned. It was because you had me going the other way.

1:47:42 It's like the canned worship music. No shave. No, but that's how I interpreted it until I figured out, oh, no, no, this serious about saying corporate music. It has a different meaning. I'm like, okay. Double entendre. But it sounds like the, it sounds like the music that you premiere iPhone to, right? Yeah. Like, the real certain chords or whatever. But yeah. So that was the pushback. But now we got to get into who made the crossover from gospel to secular. That is one Mr. Sam Cook. And this is. the OG of OGs in many ways. You sent me Cupid,

1:48:23 Wonderful World. I know them all. Sam Cook, man. I know them all. I'm going to give you a quick facts family story. Every time Sam Cook would come up around my Grandma Facts, Grandpa Facts would cut his eyes at her because, you know, that was their usher, their Chris Brown, you know, really. Oh, yeah. Him and Nat King Cole. Yeah. When Sam Cookie and Nat King Cole came up, boy, it was a good looking good-looking man. Very handsome. 26. Sam opened the door for more singers than you'd ever dream of.

1:49:01 I know. Because it was an approach to music that we didn't ever think the public would accept from blacks anyhow. He influenced most of us, most of us. This is the story of how gospel became pop and why it took a natural rule breaker like Sam Cook to make it all happen. I know, I know, I know. And I'm the singer was an iconic figure for a new generation of African Americans. Sam Cook was a guy who didn't take any crap from people and was someone who really seemed like he wanted to control his own destiny as an artist.

1:49:42 That became a really big issue starting in the 1960s about black people controlling their own art. And Sam Cook was one of these people, one of the first people who really began to show the kind of intelligence and guts to do that. Sam Cook had a lifestyle that was beyond the dreams of most black Americans. He was a major star, a successful businessman, and lived in a house in the Hollywood Hills. It was everything he had dreamed of as a small boy growing up in Chicago's south side. I was seven years old, Sam was nine. And we talked to him one day, and he had 12 sticks.

1:50:22 And he would stick these sticks in the ground. So one day he was sticking these sticks. I said, man, why are you always sticking them sticks in the ground like that? He said, LC, he said, I'm preparing myself. He said, these sticks, I'm pretending this is my audience. He said, like they people. He said, I'm saying to these sticks. So when I get to an audience, I won't be scared to sing. He said, because I'm never going to work any life. So I said, what do you mean you're never going to work? So I'm going to be a saint. He said, I'm going to have money in my pocket every day. What is this from? This is the Soul Deep, the story of Black Popular Music. And this is episode two of a multi-part series. The number of sticks is not lost on me.

1:51:07 Number 12. Right. That part as well. And this is what I'm talking about, anointing anointing. People know when they are given a gift. And Sam Cook was one of the special ones. And you're going to hear in the next clip how special he was because he broke the mold on not only crossing over, but the stylistically as well. Joining a group like the Soul Service meant a life of touring following a circuit known as the Gospel Highway.

1:51:46 Although it has now faded into memory, in the 1950s, the Gospel Highway was as exciting a place to be as any in America and was trodden by quartet groups, numerous gospel believers, and traveling preachers. Nevertheless, there was not enough. We were traveling along the gospel highway, stopping in little cities and little towns, and sometimes having church in the field, sometimes having church in the church, or sometimes just having church in a tent, you know, with sawdust and cheers and people bringing fans and food and all kinds of things.

1:52:34 For all its religious trappings, the Gospel Highway was a form of show business. And the artists' touring schedules were carefully mapped out to maximize their possible earnings. It meant that you wanted to hit North Carolina in the tobacco states right after the tobacco harvest was in. Because then your audience had some money in their pockets. And you could turn out a church and there'd be donations and the minister wanted you there. You wanted to get down south in the winter, you know, farther south, Florida and so on, when people would go down there. because of the weather, and there'd be people down there with money, and that was all part of the gospel highway. It was uh mapped out to the degree where any given year you could almost tell where a group was going to be because that month was when there was money in Memphis or wherever it was.

1:53:27 Yeah, he was a businessman as well, and there was an infrastructure laid out well before he even showed up that you're going to be here, like I said, in North Carolina, you'll be in Durham, North Carolina, doing the right tobacco harvest or whatever you know, the agriculture flow was. And I remember these tent revivals, I went to a few of them, you know, that showed up every year when I was younger, you know, with my grandmother. That it would be a tent, you know, be hot as fish grease, you know, but you would be in this tent. And but I want to stress the fact

1:54:11 the importance of these things to keep people moving and motivated. A lot of times, in our intellectual outlook, we're seeing like, oh, that, you know, why are you going down there to give your money to the pastor? But it's church is like their OG value for value. Yeah, you know, it's like whatever you got out of it. You know, like, I don't know if you that's what our past our pastor always says: value for value. That's a God thing, man. That's a God thing. That's what he always says. Because what you got out of it, you put back into it.

1:54:48 So now there is gouging. I'm not going to be naive and say there's not gouging, but for old ladies, this is their chance to dress up, put their nice hat on. You know, even though they've been on their knees scrubbing all week, this is their chance to go and sit and be queens. Like on Wire, they shot the queen crown right off her head. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. You know, so that was their social club. And these were their social events. And it was a whole system that showed up before Sam Cook even showed up.

1:55:31 But he had a certain talent that crossed over, which jeopardized the whole system a la uh Jackie Robinson, the Negro League the same way. Yeah. Once they got in and started picking out the talent, it's the same. It collapses because you don't have the talent. Now let's hear about this super talented person called Sam Cook. What set him apart? He had a smooth voice. He had a smooth deliverance.

1:56:12 And in those days, most gospel singers had a cruff voice. They were able to get throaty. They would get, ah, oh Lord. But Sam was always, you know, there was a woman in the Bible days. He was so smooth with it. And he was like an exception. You would think you were at a nightclub because he was good looking. I mean, the guy was pretty. We loved him. Everybody had a crush on Sam Cook.

1:56:50 In the gospel world, they were all in the front of the auditorium screaming with the hands up and trying to touch his feet and trying to touch his clothes. And I mean, he had strings of women. We walked off stage, they'd all run to the back of the stage trying to get his autograph, trying to get a hug, trying to get a kiss, whatever they could get just to be here. I'm so glad you're doing this. Sam Cook is not talked about anymore. His role in for so many different reasons. Out of him came Rolling Stones. I mean, also, also listen to Sam Cook. I mean, so much. The British Invasion, a lot of the Beatles, a lot of people listen to Sam Cook.

1:57:34 He was very influential. He changed the paradigm to where he was so smooth, it was able to cross over. Yeah. Whereas, like she was saying, with the hollering, with the hooping, you know, that translated into gospel music, this opened it up for a different crowd. And a parallel I like draw is with Rock M like rap was very hardcore, you know, power, you know. like kind of. And Rakim came and said, no, I'm going to be smooth with it.

1:58:12 And it changed the whole flow of how people rap. I mean, that's why they call him the God and C, because he changed the whole way this thing was done, where it went from the run DMC kind of powerful bar, even with Chuck D, to this, what Sam Cook did, this smooth ride the beat kind of, you know, in a way, but also, you know, saying, losing the power behind it. I don't know much about Rakim. I'm sorry. Air being Rakim. Well, yeah, that's exactly. That's all I know. Eric being Rakeam. That's it. But you know why? The same reason you want to hear about Sam Cook. The real pioneers, they bury.

1:58:54 And then they put in their what people call today the industry plants. This is how it works. We take off the originators and we put in our plants or people that we can control. This is why I laid this show out the way I did. They can't really harness the power. It's kind of like electricity. They just have to lay the lines and steer it where they can. It's uncontrollable. Yeah, you're upsetting me now. Well, the guy who ultimately controlled Sam Cook is Alan Klein.

1:59:38 We're going to get there. Okay. We're going to get there. The guy I know. I actually met him. I know the guy. He's gone now. This is the reason, another reason I was excited about this show because from your perspective, you can fill in certain gaps, you know, of, oh, this is what was going on with El Cooje, or this is, you know, Alan Klein or whatever. I was pretty sure you knew some of these people, and I was excited to hear your engagement with them. Sure. Even more so on the next show is going to be very riveting. But let's get back to this show. Do we stop at 2.6? We're, yeah, 2.6 is what's next. All right, let's go.

2:00:19 Know how well you say gospel music. You were quite a saint, whether you lived it or not. You know, you could drink, booze, you could run women, you can chase, you could do everything you wanted to do. But you, you were okay as long as you stuck to gospel. It is so crazy now that I look at it. Lifestyle didn't go with the song. I remember him telling me one afternoon. We got to the auditorium quite early. And we sat there on the steps of the auditorium. And he confided in me that he was getting ready to cross over to secular music. And I was saying to myself, God, he's going to cross over to secular music.

2:01:04 What if he doesn't make it? They're not going to let him come back in. So I'm like, Sam, you better know what you're doing. Crossing over was considered an act of betrayal by many in the gospel community. Oh, wow. If he didn't want to alienate his gospel fan base, Sam would need to tread very carefully. So crossing over, of course, has religious connotations I haven't thought about. You're crossing over, you're crossing over to the dark side. It was two crossovers. So to the far, this thing about like this: the far right was staying black and gospel.

2:01:43 Right. Now, Sam was going to go over to the, instead of touring churches, touring jute joints, what they call the quote-unquote, I did it again. The Chitlin circuit. You know who got me doing that? No, who? Neely Fuller. Neely Fuller is to blame. All right. Stop it, Neely. Because he does it. And it's the highlight of point that you're aware that your words could be taken another way. But the Chitlin circuit, that was the two paths. You could go on the gospel circuit or you could go on the Chitlin circuit. But if you had the talent that Sam Cook had, you could cross over to actual

2:02:29 white ears. Explain Chitlin. Chitlin circuit, that was basically the jute joints. The actual word Chitlin. Oh, that's pig intestines that were turned into a southern delicacy. Which another thing is amazing how when a certain group of people do things, it's all that's country, that's backwards, that's whatever. That's pig intestines. Right. But then you can eat Chloe. tripe, and that's a delicacy. It's like, oh, now it's different. You know, perception is hell, man. It's something else. But no, that was the crossover.

2:03:10 And he was going from the far right to the far left. Now, what was seen as a bigger betrayal? Crossing over out of the church or crossing over to white audiences? Or was that seen as a betrayal as well? It's equally, it's equal. Okay. Because the church people was like, oh, you're leaving us to go sing the devil music. And the black secular fans, like, oh, you're leaving us to go sing for white people. You know, it's a shame that that's always been seen as a bad thing. Because it actually, it hampers the human experience.

2:03:52 Well, here's the thing, though. Because if like say podcasting, for instance, right? Say you built no agenda up to what it is. And then somebody comes along, hey, Curry, we'll cut you a check for so-and-so, so-and-so for complete creative control. Okay, but that's different from. Let me just think about that for a second. So was playing for white audiences was that inherently equal to giving up his creative control? Yes, it still is today. Because when you sign a record deal, they pick the records that go on the album.

2:04:35 You can make all that, you can make a thousand records. But you don't know that they won't. There are black-owned labels. I just want to point out that record labels by themselves have inherent evilness to them, no matter what color owns them. No, what I'm saying is this: that you're giving up the creative control because some group of people are going to pick your sound. Okay. All right. Okay. That's just like they're saying, Curry, you can't play that clip. You know, it's like you come in with a hundred clips and they get to pick the 25 that's going to go on the show for me or you. Right. It's like we did the work, but you're, you go back to the word curating again. You're curating what you think is going to be most palatable to the wider audience.

2:05:19 Right. Which that, you know, what's the word? What they call it? Watered down. You know, that's that's, you know, you're going commercial because you're looking at hitting the numbers, not keeping true to the that got you where you're at. Right. And that, and that is necessary and true in a limited system where a small or a group owns the distribution. It's really about distribution. Oh, that's that's where that and the shows. Yeah. Because it's also distribution. The shows were distribution. It's all distribution.

2:05:59 That's why Live Nation is so huge because they own the venues. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You own the rights to the venues. You get to pick who's on the stage. Yeah. And Sam was a problem, so you get 2.1. On December the 11th, 1964, Sam Cook, one of America's biggest pop idols, checked into a cheap Los Angeles motel in a rundown part of Townsend. He never checked out.

2:06:42 In his brief life, Sam Cook managed to change popular music forever and set the standard for every singer who dared to follow him. At first, I thought it was infatuation. One of gospel music's greatest stars, Sam Cook pioneered the transformation of black church music into mainstream pop. And take you home. You couldn't have the popular music that we have today without that crossover from the church to pop music having one of the foundations of pop music as we know it is gospel music.

2:07:27 America was shocked when this child of the church was brutally killed after an argument at the motel. But by the time of his death, he had inspired a generation of singers to turn the church music they had grown up with into the soundtrack of modern America. Yeah, he was killed by a black woman, I think, who owned the most. motel. Allegedly. There is, of course, a case to be made that all the singers who have real influence eventually are eliminated one way or the other, either by nature or by God or by evil

2:08:13 Tupac. If my memory serves me correct, I think he was killed in December of 64. Malcolm was killed in February of 65. And there's some connection between them two, as we're going to see here. But let's get more into the unsolved death of Sam Cook. Later in the year, Sam heard Bob Dylan's song Blowing in the Wind and was moved by its lyrics. He felt that if a white songwriter could write such a moving song about race, perhaps he should write one too. The final spur came from Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech. Sam claimed that a change is going to come came to him in a dream as a whole complete song.

2:08:54 Sam had long been a supporter of the civil rights movement, and a change is going to come was adopted by the movement as one of their anthems. A single of the song did not appear until two weeks after Sam's death. The song was amended and re-recorded before release as a single. Sam devoted a great deal of time and effort writing the song, and it's considered to be his most influential composition. It's consistently appeared in greatest songs lists and has found a place in the Library of Congress's National Recording Register. He was known to be sympathetic to the aims of the civil rights movement and expressed his views in song and through interviews. Taken at face value, his death seems straightforward. He was shot by the night manager of a motel who feared he was going to attack her.

2:09:37 She claimed she acted in self-defense. The authorities accepted her explanation and declared the death to be justifiable homicide. Many others, including his friends, family, and various witnesses, disagreed. And the events surrounding Sam's death have been debated ever since. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the timing is indeed curious, and especially with the song coming out in a remixed version after he died. Yeah, they did some late minute changes. Tweaking. Some tweaking. And this is the point I was trying to make. Excuse me, about creative control. Yeah. Sam, we don't think those couple of lines

2:10:21 will register with the demographics. Can you go back and re-record that? Now, let me make it clear. There is a sweet spot to where these frequencies meet. Case in point, some of the best Ozzy Brothers songs are covers of white artists. Really? You know the song I Seen Fire, I Seen Rain? Yes, that's James Taylor. Yes. Go listen to the Ozzy Brothers version. Summer Dreams Make Me Feel Fear. That's another one. Which I don't know who covered who.

2:11:05 I'm not sure the timeline on that. But a lot of their greatest songs are covers, but yet and still is so different that it's almost his own song. Like, you could take somebody to cover North of Richmond and remix it in a certain way that it would be, you know, on the parallel with Sam Cook's song, which was one of the last Negro spirituals there is. Interesting. Change is going to come. Yeah. That right there is quintessential Negro spiritual.

2:11:45 The way it moves you, I don't care who you are when the first set of chords start playing, it invokes emotion. Unless you just can't feel, I'm sorry. But it was still tailored. He was like, nah, Sam, you can't take that line out, take this line out, can't say this, can't say that. And it still goes on to today. Because you can say that Summer Breeze was Seals and Crofts. See? Yeah, you're right. Wow. Some of their best songs were covers, and that's what blew me because I'm like, hey, they're singing the Ozzie Brothers.

2:12:25 But when you go back and listen, you know, it's like, no, they're actually doing covers of other people's songs. That's so interesting because Elvis, you know, was accused of being the white guy singing the black songs. Yes, and a black man taught him how to dance gunk. Right, which is by definition an actual slipper right past him. It's an actual crossover. That slipped right past you. I'm sorry. I said. Forrest Gump, a black man taught him how to dance. Yeah. I got it. That's what that movie was about. Just as a quick facts moment, Forrest Gump was about him being biracial. Right. Yeah. You do realize that. No, yes, I know that.

2:13:10 When you look at the lens through that movie, just to speak on how powerful Art is, it wasn't his intelligent level why he was treated differently. Right. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotcha. I gotcha. And that was an allude to like him teaching Elvis how to dance and then on TV. Elvis is dancing and all that bubba buddy and seats taking and all that. All that is allusion to who the real Mr. Gump was. But, you know, so good. So good. So good. Yeah, so good. I digress, but let's go ahead and get into part two.

2:13:49 On December 11th, 1964, Sam Cook booked a room in the Hacienda Motel in LA with a girl named Elisa Boyer. She had been booked in as Mrs. Cook, but in fact, she and Sam had eaten at a restaurant in town and then came to the hacienda together. Sam's infidelities were well known, and he had fathered at least three children illegitimately. In a room at the motel, Elisa Boyer claimed Sam tore off her clothing and she feared he was going to rape her. When he went to the bathroom, she grabbed her clothes and fled. In grabbing her clothes, she also scooped up most of Sam's clothes. When he came out of the bathroom, he realized what happened and gave chase. Elisa, meantime, had tried to raise the night manager and hide in her office. The night manager was too slow in coming to the office door and Elisa fled to the street.

2:14:33 Sam reached the office and thinking Elisa was in there, demanded entry. He was dressed only in a jacket and with one shoe. The night manager was a woman named Bertha Franklin, and seeing that Sam was angry and aggressive, grabbed a gun and shot him in the chest. Sam lunged towards her and she hit him several times with a broom handle. The gunshot had been fatal though, and Sam collapsed and died on the floor of the office. That's the official story and the one recorded by police. Ah, okay. This is the only story I know. There must be a second story in the next clip, I'm thinking. But wait, there's more. 34. There are, however, a number of inconsistencies we have to highlight. Firstly, restaurant staff and customers where the pair had eaten claimed Sam had a large quantity of money with him.

2:15:18 Ostensibly, this was to buy Christmas gifts. That money was never recovered. Bertha Franklin had at one time been an operator of a brothel, and rumors persisted after the killing that she and Boyer, who had worked as a prostitute, were running a scam. Boyer would find victims and offer to sleep with them, but the two women would pickpocket them and then cry rape. Franklin had shot a motel guest in similar circumstances just six months earlier. Those who viewed Sam's body when it had been laid out in his coffin were alarmed at the beating he must have taken before he died. Reliable witnesses like Etta James claim that a broom handle could not have caused the injuries they saw. Sam's head had been almost severed and he was bruised and cut to a major extent. What's the real story?

2:16:00 We can only guess. There are some who suggest that Alan Klein, Sam's manager, might have been behind the murder. Sam's death would give Klein ownership of the rights to Sam's back catalog. He does seem an unlikely culprit as a living Sam would produce more songs and so bring more wealth to Klein. Another popular theory is that a government agency such as the FBI or CIA were the prime movers in the murder. Perhaps they wished to remove a civil rights activist whose popularity they feared. It's argued that Franklin and Boyer were implicit in a deal that guaranteed them immunity from prosecution for other crimes. This theory tries to explain the injuries Sam sustained by suggesting he was beaten up by government agents before being shot.

2:16:40 Whether the shot was fired by Franklin or someone else can't be proven. It may or may not be relevant to note that Elisa Boyer was arrested the following month for agreeing to have sex with an undercover police officer for $40. 15 years later, she was charged with manslaughter and convicted for shooting her then boyfriend. All right. Well, this is much more believable than the other story. Particularly FBI and CIA, of course, you know, we would believe were complicit in Martin Luther King's shooting. Alan Klein, I would say, knowing him, he was feared and revered in the music business. I met him once at probably the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame dinner. I was like, Alan Klein.

2:17:22 Oh, yeah. Actually, he's like the Sug Knight? Was he the Sug Knight of a... You know, and I actually recall having... No, I think we had a meeting. We had a meeting, and now this is going to be 2000. Not long before he died, actually. Maybe four years before he died. died. I think he died in the mid-2000s. And it was about music on the internet. Maybe it was, no, it was before, it was, no, I'm wrong. It was in the late 90s. And I just remember how intimidating he was. But, you know, he took the meeting and he was feared and revered.

2:18:07 I would say, knowing that just that little bit of Klein, I don't think he would have, he could make more money and eventually get the rights and do whatever he wanted without having to have Sam Cook killed. I think he is definitely the kind of guy who's like, as long as I own you, I don't care. I don't care. Just keep doing it. Keep doing what you're doing. And of course, there's some credence. There's some credence lended to that because people will say, why was Sugar Knight killed Tupac? You know what I'm saying? He was signed to a long-term record deal. But there's this thing that cropped up in the rap community that their rappers get better promotion.

2:18:50 Well, dead rappers, and as we now know, arrested rappers go to jail, get a hit. This is what 45 Savage is witnessing. Yes, he's taking the drill rap formula to a whole new level. Catch a case to the top of the charts. Yeah. What it didn't do, the Alan Klein, Sam Cook relationship did not help the struggle between black Americans and Jewish Americans. That really is one of those relationships. Like, see, see who's in charge? You know, that's kind of what that did.

2:19:33 Which I still think that's overplayed when you look at who's the institutional money behind these record labels. You know, it's bigger than that. Now, all they use is tell that to Kanye. Task. But see, that's the thing. He realized that even when the money gets big enough, the Jewish community has to take a step back. Like with Adidas, Adidas is like, we're over here bleeding cash. Right, right. We got to sell these sneakers and then they have to acquiesce to whatever Adidas needs to do. Right. And who's the institutional money behind Adidas? You know, when we start looking at the big name investors,

2:20:19 that's what the beauty of corporations is. It hides it so well who's actually pulling the puppet strings. Yeah, yeah. But we don't have any puppet strings. We have producers. We do. And we'd like to thank them. And we love it when they send us new money. I like brand new money. I just, I don't want any money around me. It's not. I'd almost rather have a new one than an old 20. That's kind of dumb. But there's something about new money that excites you. You like $100 bills? Oh, yeah. I like old money too. Oh, most beautiful thing on earth is a $100 bill. I haven't seen a woman as good looking as a $100 bill. There's something about $100 bill that excites you.

2:20:59 I can't wait to tell Tina about this episode because she's going to be like, oh, this is what, oh, she's. I can't wait to tell my pastor about this episode. I want people to listen to this. There's some value in here that is just one of those typical Mofax with Adam Curry moments where you can't get this anywhere else. This is phenomenal. I love this. We have a lot of people. Yes, go ahead. And the producers make it happen. Exactly. This is the thing. We're on the Chitlin circuit here, folks. You have to come and fill up the 10 seats. But isn't that what literally it is?

2:21:39 If I get on this guy's show, that gives me a bigger platform. I leverage that relationship to grow my thing. And then I'll open up the door maybe for somebody to come on my show to give them a profile. And that's basically what it is. It's the same thing. May we always stay on the Chitlin circuit, Moe. I hope so. I don't plan. Because being small and having creative control is more valuable to me than being big and being controlled. Yep. I figured this out in my 50s, in my early 50s when I figured this out. Being number one is not, it probably never was what you think it, what you think it really is.

2:22:22 Having a community who supports you, that's everything. Like Daniel White, who supports us with $47 and says, hey, y'all, can I get one of those birthday biscuits for myself? They always give me a biscuit on my birthday. Yep, $47 on June 29th. A little bit late. I'm sorry about that, but the biscuit always stays. stays fresh. Always enjoy the show. Looking forward to whatever slides out of the Mo out of the Facts Machine next. Y'all be good. That's Sir Dirty Jersey Whore. He's a good guy. I met him in Georgia. Fun guy. Matthew Weaver, $40. Thank you, Matthew. Matt Baja, episode 92 and 91. Thank you. Looking forward to your next endeavor. Christopher DiBiase, 33. No note, but the magic number. We got Justin Duell with 33. Mo has uncovered something very important.

2:23:06 White supremacy is light supremacy. You know who I mean. What is this from? What do you think he's saying here? White supremacy. Oh, Lucifer. Oh, Lucy. Oh, Lucy. I got it. Got it. The who. And these are why these notes are just the timing of them. What was he over? The lead of music. Exactly. Oh, wow. Side note: Mo, have you ever thought you'd make a good judge? Have you ever thought about it, Mo? I would. I think I would. No, the reason why I say that is because Proverbs, that's what it's all about, is becoming a good

2:23:50 judge, King Solomon. Yes, indeed. 30 from Benjamin Barlow, Christy Carlton, David Parris says, Thank you for sharing your thoughts and putting out such a powerful product. All the best. Eric Machi, 30 for 93. I like it. We got Kyle Tackle, Michael Talbot, Seth Peterson, and Vanessa Steinbach all with $30. Thank you. 25s from Andrew Andrea Jackson, and who says, every time I listen, I learn something new. Raymond Grill loves this show. Melissa Ebed, I think, Ebide, Ebide. Aaron Sneed, Bo Baldwin, Christopher Bellier, David Jones,

2:24:34 all $20. Eric Machie, who gives us $20 for $92. Eric is back again. So that's $50 in total. Thank you, Eric. John Siebert, thanks for your courage. Paulo Moore, $20. SV with $20. We got Anonymous with $20. Hello, Mo and Adam. Learned about you through Adam. What a great duo you make. Your respect and esteem for each other is palpable. Content is most excellent, too. Hope this small donation helps. Looking forward to your next venture after Mo Facts. Of course, it helps. Everything helps. We appreciate it. Susan Tillet with 15. Great show as usual. 1218. Facts do matter. Says Mark J. Asher. Thank you, Mo and Adam, with a tenor from Joshua Goodson. Benjamin Bateman with a mini mini striper, $7.770.

2:30:50 So we have the, of course, the record label you can point the finger at, you know, this grunt old. But that doesn't really make a lot of sense to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. No. That's not, you know, it in the case where if they're leaving, they're not under contract, maybe, but it doesn't make much sense. Now, you got where he just got with a prostitute and she tried to like trick roll him. But I don't think he's going to take it that far over some money. Even though it's Christmas money, you can't, if nothing else, you cannot go home without the Christmas money.

2:31:32 You know how I feel about Christmas. The baby's got to have Christmas. So maybe that sent him over the edge. Who knows? But then we also have the intelligence agencies. You know, were they trying to stop a person that had the ear of the people? Let's go ahead and get to number 35. This is from Al Profit. He does great work on documentaries, documenting this kind of history. 35. Back in December 64, Sam Cook was a huge star. But unlike almost all black entertainers at the time, he was looking towards black economic self-empowerment.

2:32:12 The record label he was signed with, RCA, was pushing Sam towards crossing over more to the white consumer. His song about the Jim Crow South, A Change Can Come, had lyrics that were cut out by RCA as they didn't want to upset the white audience buying Sam's records. But Sam Cook felt there was room for both in his life. And as his music career grew, so did his political actors. When Hashius Clay changed his name to Muhammad Ali and defeated Sonny Liston for the heavyweight championship in 1964, Sam Cook was there along with Malcolm X from the Nation of Islam.

2:32:51 After the newly christened Muhammad Ali won the match, he was seen on television in front of all the news reporters bringing up Sam Cook and paying his respects. Sam Cook, very good friend, a good vocalist with Kali. Excuse me. We both move back. Oh, I didn't know any of that. So you got Sam Cook, Malcolm X, and Muhammad Ali, as Muhammad Ali called, the number one rock star in the world. Now you got the heavyweight champion in the world and Malcolm X being the people's champ on the side of civil rights.

2:33:39 The trifecta right there. Interesting. That would make a lot of people nervous. Yeah. If you have them and you have in the background Elijah Mohammed, the honorable Elijah Mohammed, how you want to see it, lurking in the background and the possible big money out of Texas backing him up. But that's another show for another day. Who was president at the time? In 60, was it 60? Was it Johnson? No, because let's see, 6 64. No, was it Kennedy? Kennedy was letting in 60, right?

2:34:24 Yeah. Or 64. Now, Kennedy was killed in 63, so it must have been Johnson. Yeah. Yeah, it had to be Johnson. Oh, the racists. Okay. Yeah, makes sense. Well, like I said, it goes very deep, and we'll get there one day. But this is the problem that I think it presented itself as you got somebody on, and this is national television. Yeah. You got Muhammad Ali changing his name, but that's a bigger problem within itself. And like I said, you got the what scared him more is not the militancy, it's the do-for-self mentality. That's very disruptive to the economic system.

2:35:04 If you let this kind of thinking catch on, but let's go ahead and get into 36. Later that evening, Sam Cook, Muhammad Ali, and Malcolm X were hanging out together. And this photograph appeared in FBI reports targeting black activists considered dangerous. Sam Cook with Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X, two of the most controversial, at least two white America figures of the time. This was not the crowd RCA wanted Sam Cook to be a part of. If it was known that Cook was potentially working with people that provoke change and potential uprising, RCA would lose a lot of money.

2:35:44 Well, if you observe what's going on and try to figure out how people are thinking and determine the times of your day, I think you can always write something that the people will understand. Around this same time, Sam Cook got the idea to get some of the top African-American singers to pool their money together and form their own record label and booking company. Now, at the time, the Italian mafia was at the height of its power and was truly a shadow second government in America, and it had nearly total control of the music business. Sam Cook would get phone calls and visits from mafia figures telling them you better leave the music industry alone.

2:36:25 Mafia members would enter Sam's dressing room. They would pose threats in front of Sam's friends and family. But Cook wasn't having it. Okay, two things. One, on no agenda, Dvorak brought some new information a month or two ago, as Bobby the K is now in the picture. Right. And, you know, of course, we still don't have the full JFK files released, even though that legally should have happened by now. And the thinking is that it was the Mafia who killed JFK. And the embarrassment that neither CIA nor FBI could stop it from happening is the reason why that information has not yet been given out.

2:37:12 Now, that kind of works in this timeline with those same agents with the Mafia having all this power and threaten, I mean, maybe even power going directly to the government. Yeah. And I alluded to some big money out of Texas. Once again, you forced my hands. You heavens. You just always do it. Allie, I got to oop it on home. Yeah. Yeah. H.L. Hunt. Are you familiar with him? H.L. Hunt. Big oil money out of Texas. Huge oil money out of Texas. Very seldom talked about, but he was the money

2:37:59 behind. This goes, I got to do this quickly. At the wrap of my last show, I found out about this ongoing feud, which covers basically about the orange people, right? You have the American kind of cowboy kind of mentality versus the Northeastern Wasp mentality. Sure. There's this war called the Yankees versus the Cowboys. We're well aware of the Yankee side, the Rockefellers, the Carnegies, whatever else, but there was another force on the opposite side of that for the Cowboys, one being H.L.

2:38:42 Hunt, which H.L. Hunt had Hoover in his back pocket and the mob in his back pocket. Oh, and so he might have been the money behind the Kennedy assassination to get a Texan boy Johnson in there. Exactly. Because his understanding supposed to been Johnson from the beginning, but the WASP and they were letting the Kennedys into that group because Master Joe Fortune. Right. That once he got to the convention, he realized that his candidate was not going to be selected.

2:39:18 And that's why he had to take Johnson. Now, there's paper trails that say he might have been involved in the execution of Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and the Kennedy brothers. There's one other name in this trifecta. There's actually a fourth name, Jim Brown. Yes. Jim Brown was in that mix as well with Malcolm and with Muhammad Ali and with Sam Cook. And this is why you see this divide between, you know, the quote unquote bule. Yeah. Yeah. Because the Boulet is not

2:40:03 unanimous or one force. You have the Jim Browns, you have those people on one side of it. Yeah. And then you have the, you know, the people with the intellectuals on the other side of it. Hold on a second. What? Oh, stop saying quote unquote, Mo. The Boulet. Oh, thank you. Was that the quote-unquote Boulet phone ringing? That's what it was. No, but it's a bad habit. I'll break it. That's okay. Don't worry about it. No, it's a faux pie in my mind. It's just something I have to work on doing.

2:40:41 But yeah, you had to bet on home. That Kennedy thing, when you start looking into it, there's so many strings and so much power, but it all draws, goes back to the same point, a few points. Interesting. But going back to the Sam Cook murder, let's get into part 37. But Cook wasn't having it. It said that he rejected everything thrown at him and said he was going to do it anyway. And it got to the point that Sammy Davis Jr. was tapped by the shadowy figures of organized crime to reach out to Cook and tell him he better listen to the Italians.

2:41:22 So during 1964, Cook's RCA contract was up for renegotiation. And Sam had his manager, Alan Klein, renegotiate the contract to include Sam's own record label. What do you hope to do in the future? You're doing different things now, aren't you? Yeah, well, now, Dick, I'm working mostly with other young singers. It was supposed to be a new one called Tracy Unlimited with Sam as the president and Alan Klein as the secretary. They would find and own all the new music. After pouring through the contracts and papers, personally, Cook realized that his manager had sold him out. In actuality, Sam Cook would be an employee of Tracy Unlimited, which would be owned by Alan Klein.

2:42:04 On a Thursday, he was going to fly to New York and make a lot of changes, including firing Alan Klein, but he never made it through that weekend. Yeah, sounds familiar. The here's your own record labels scam. The shingles scam. It's basically, yeah, you're still under universal or CBS or fill in the blank of this big record label, but we create you a shingle that you can, you're signed to us, but you can sign other artists to yourself, which we still get a piece off of. Yeah. I went through this with the music that I was like, I'm not signing nothing.

2:42:44 The best way not to get screwed is don't sign anything. That's right. And I've always had this mentality. And, you know, just to highlight the point that this show is hip-hop. Mommy, look at me now. I'm serious. It is. Rap albums don't drop when they're supposed to. You know, it's, do you stay true to your fans or do you go for a bigger audience? All this is way the independence that we have, that we can say whatever we want to say. We don't have a boolean phone like Sam Cook had, where Sammy Davis Jr.'s call, like, hey, talk to your boy.

2:43:29 Yeah, the Italians tell you to talk to your boy. That's the, that's the, that's the mental, that's the, that's how the bole phone work. It's, you know, somebody I know. Can you get him on the phone or can you send him a message? Hey, he needs to cut it out. And if you don't adhere, then you don't make it wherever you're trying to go. Literally. And this is why podcasting is a problem. And, you know, I've been following. We've got university people studying podcasting. We've got Southern Poverty Law Center studying podcasts. It's a real problem, this podcasting. Yeah, podcasting is a problem. It's like we can't seem to deplatform people everywhere.

2:44:12 Fresh and Fit took a hit. I don't know what they thought they was going to do. They were going to stay on YouTube's platform and doing what they were doing, but that was just another hit. And I know I'm going to upset some people by this, but it is what it is. What's the dude's name? Andrew Tate. Yeah. To me, screams industry plant. Oh, interesting. I mean, I have no interest in looking at him. I just, it hasn't, it's never interested me, so I've never really taken a look at it. This is what I'm talking about when they push the real people to the side. Mr.

2:44:54 Kevin Samuels, who has the weirdest death I ever heard of. I've never heard anybody dying of hypertension. I've never heard, I've talked to multiple. Now, it could be the root cause or the comorbidity, but the cause of death, hypertension, usually it's a stroke or whatever else. But I digress. Exit Kevin Samuels and to Andrew Tate. He has industry plant written all over him. It upsets a lot of people when I say this. He's divided the BitCon Inc. If you notice, people are taking sides for and against him.

2:45:35 I understand it. If you got a smaller platform, you got to outflank the competition. So you take that risk to be on his side. But then you have the more established BitCon Inc. Like, I don't want to touch him. And our girl Candy, Candace Owens. Yeah. She went full Oprah form. Oh, yeah. Which I call her the conservative Oprah. Which is which is been a while, so we got a lot to talk about. Yeah, I got you. But that's interesting in this case because she's part of Daily Wire. And Daily Wire, in turn, has some pretty interesting Texans

2:46:20 footing the bill there. Yes. What is it with Texas? Which they've been doing this forever. H.L. Hunt had one of the biggest radio shows there is. He was the precursor to InfoWars, that kind of thing of making strict conservative content. And honestly, the minute when Jordan Peterson joined the wire, that's when he started to get really weirdly political. You get your talking points. Exactly. Something changed there with him that just is off-putting to me.

2:46:59 It's like, I like his message. I like all the stuff he says about masculinity and men and young men and all this. And then all of a sudden he's dropping in politics. Like, feels weird. When you work for the company, you got to take the company talking points. Yeah, and with that comes comfort because as long as I hit my marks, you know, I'm going to be employed. And this is why the Steven Crowder thing was such a while. I brought it up. There it is. There it is. Everyone's got their own version of it. Yeah. And we see it play out every day since I brought up

2:47:42 the actual bule phone. We see instantaneously, somebody says something, they got to go back on it. Yep. You know, they got to change how they're looking. But just to wrap up the candidates own thing, I think she's on shaky ground because of what she did with Yay, and she's looking for an exit strategy. That is my analysis on that situation because this goes to the bigger conversation of when you go corporate. Yeah. Where do you go after corporate's done with you? Like, seriously. No, it's very difficult.

2:48:22 There's only one way, and that's poverty podcasting. That's the only place you can still go to. But it takes a lot of stamina, a lot of work, and a lot of honesty to do it. Otherwise, people just won't buy. Well, yes. You have to have an outstanding product always. Talent sales. If nothing else, you make a stellar product. They're going to find you. You know, it is what it is. But going back to Sam Cook, who also made a stellar product, this is my conspiracy. Can I get some theorem? It's been a while since we had some theorem. I know I caught you flat-footed, but this is going to take this is going to crank it up for you.

2:49:04 There we go. Oh, Moe's going off the reservation, everybody. Put on your tinfoil hat. Here we go with some conspiracy theories. We love it. This is where we've always connected on conspiracies. Yes. And this is one for you. I believe Sam Cook was dosed with LSD, went batshit crazy. And that's why he ended up being shot. Who shot him? I don't know. But at this time period and in this area, CIA agents and people affiliated with the agency were known to dose John's unbeknownst to them to watch the effects.

2:49:56 Are you on board? You know what I'm saying? What are we doing? Yes, no, I'm definitely. There's a, what is the guy's name who jumped out of his hotel room? The whole story was exactly that. I forget his name. I don't know why. I knew it and I saw it when I was doing this research, but I didn't get his name in the clip. But it's mentioned in America's War on Drugs, the CIA Frank Olson. That's it. Frank Olson. Yep. Yes. Let's listen to how History Channel captures how this whole setup would work and let's see if it works with the Sam Cook theory.

2:50:38 Two American spies have just arrived at Sandoz Laboratories, one of the world's leading pharmaceutical factories. The mission, corner the market on the world's supply of a powerful new psychoactive drug. The CIA was scared stiff that KGB was going to get all this LSD and come over and start dosing people. So we bought every drop of LSD in existence at that point. The CIA has just authorized the purchase of 10 kilograms of pure LSD 25, enough to dose more than half the population of the United States. They gave it to George White and let George start dosing people. George Hunter White, a larger-than-life undercover federal narcotics agent, unbeknownst to his supervisors.

2:51:23 White also works for the CIA. His job to conduct experiments for an operation called Midnight Climax. Ooh. I didn't know about this one. Yep. Midnight Climax. Huh. Okay. Oh, yeah. Hmm. Intrigued? You picked the dice. Of course. You could say something, you can roll the dice. Rolling, let's go to 39. George had a CIA safe house stocked with booze. George would sit behind this one-way mirror, drinking martinis, sitting on a portable toilet.

2:52:03 If he had to take a leak, he didn't want to get up and leave. White pays prostitutes to lure their clients to the agency's safe house. house. Hookers would bring these suckers back to the apartment and dose them with pure LSD 25. This is where I have my effect in the mind. This is lysergic acid diathlamide, better known as acid. The powerful drug was first synthesized in 1938 in Switzerland. With a dose of mere micrograms, the mind becomes confused. Perception is distorted. Personal identity is called into question. The results can be euphoric bliss or deadly panic.

2:52:44 White takes meticulous notes and files his reports to a CIA handlers. So that was how LSD was introduced to this country. Operation Midnight Climax is part of a larger top-secret CIA program called MK Ultra. The goal: learn how to control and even reprogram people's minds. But, I mean, the timing is right. It's obviously not a stretch. We've got the prostitute there. I mean, we've got all the elements that it totally could have been a part of what happened with Sam Cook. But then did he go so he went so crazy they had to kill him? I think they, and I think he was dosed unintentionally.

2:53:28 Not that, oh, we're going to dose Sam Cook. It's that you meet prostitutes, which this woman later was identified as a prostitute, and the woman that shot him was later identified as a madam. And that hotel was down on near or on Figueroa, which is known as the stroll for prostitution. I think he just caught a bad one, got Cardi B'd. Oops. This is this tale is old as you know, and for because it doesn't make sense to me. You get beat for money.

2:54:08 Yeah. You're running out naked, chasing people with one shoe, and then you turn it up to that level where somebody has to shoot you, and then you're beaten to almost being decapitated. Yeah. Yeah. Over money. I mean, we're talking about Sam Cook here. I mean, I'm sure he's been beat before. But to take it to that level and to be disrobed in that manner and running around the streets naked, half naked with one shoe on, that just, that's a hard, that's a hard one for me to swallow for Sam Cook. Yeah. The only other guy I know who did that was Richard Pryor when he was on fire. And Martin Lawrence.

2:54:52 Remember he and Lawrence running down the street? Yeah, you're right. He went crazy too. Yeah. And then there was Lionel Ritchie, but that's because his wife was beating him. And ain't it funny that psychedelics now are just becoming back in vogue. Not just in vogue. I mean, we've got suburban white housewives micro-dosing. It's a thing. Oh, it's a thing, Mo. It's a thing. We got luxury trips where you go to some island or Mexico or maybe Jamaica and it's like $10,000 for a couple of days and you have a professional who's going to take you through psychedelics.

2:55:34 Oh, yeah. This is a huge thing right now. That's what we talked about on the Will Smith and Chris Rock show. The ayahuasca. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the funny part is that it starts with the intellectual crowd. If we just lean on a TV show as a representation of history and mad men. Yeah. Yeah. It was the intellectual rich crowd that was dropping that asset first. So, I mean, we're right back. We're right back where we started. Nothing changes.

2:56:12 Nothing changes. Come up with a new script, fellas. But I just think that this is more plausible to me than what was in the self. I mean, everybody identifies him as a ladies' man, a smooth guy, to go raging like that to the point where he has to be shot and beaten. But that does negate the whole theory of, well, he was too influential. You know, this was a problem. He's already controlled. Yeah, I was going to say he seems like he was complying. Okay, I'll take those lines out. No problem. I'll just keep going. That's why I don't think it was the record label.

2:56:55 No. It doesn't make any sense for them to do it. No. And I don't think that, oh, we got to take, we got to, you know, I don't think the agency was like, oh, we got to take Sam Cook out. He's, you know, because they had a control of him contractionally. Right. I just think he just ran across a government op and it went wrong. Very possible, Mo. So, this is from a legit CIA, former CIA agent, if there's a such thing, speaking to Joe Rogan, and he gives more insight to the Midnight Climax.

2:57:32 A lot of these things were funded through cutouts. So, you'd set up, again, this is early 50s, mid-50s, early 60s, set up financing vehicles, you know, through, say, what appear to be non-threatening grant programs, you know, from research institutes. So, you'd loop in academic institutions or researchers. And MKUltra had, at least acknowledged, anyway, over 80 academic institutions and others that were either wittingly or unwittingly working on their behalf in various research programs.

2:58:15 So, yeah, this midnight climax program, basically, they'd kid out a safe house as a brothel, and they would have the hookers slip LSD or whatever substance to the Johns. And then behind a mirror, you'd have a supposed like a researcher, right? I mean, this is where it got weird, sitting there, you know, having a drink and watching these, you know, the hooker and the John have sex, and then they'd be analyzing the impact of the LSD on them in terms of their ability to talk. And would they was the hooker in on it? Yeah, the hooker was in on it. And was she an employee of the CIA? No, you know, and it was, it wasn't just the agency, you know, like the Army was involved in these things. Hold on, stop it.

2:58:59 But for Dietrich, did you did you see him avoid that question? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was the hooker in on it? And then he goes on to answer another question. That was very smooth, Mr. Agency Man. Well, because there's no such thing as a former CIA agent. Let's hear that one more, this little piece again, and we can pick it up from there. And then they'd be analyzing the impact of the LSD on them in terms of their ability to talk. And would they was the hooker in on it? Yeah, the hooker was in on it. And was she an employee of the CIA? No, you know, and it wasn't just the agency. Epstein, Epstein. You know, like the Army was involved in these things as well.

2:59:41 But they would get, you know, cash payments, and oftentimes the job's alive. Get out of jail-free card. Ladies, if you're out there, if you're out there, listen to me. Come on, whatever you need. I'm here for it. What was that from? That was Joe Rogan. Was that Joe? Yeah. Interesting. Joe says, are they still alive? We need to talk to him. We need to bring him up here. No, no, no, no, no, no. None of that. None of that. No. But that's how it rolled.

3:00:23 Wow. That's straight from the horse's mouth. And what caught me, my attention, was these university cutouts. Yeah. I've pointed to the universities from day one where you look at all the sexual studies, race studies. What's the other one? Right up to Professor Ted, Stanford University. Right. And even the critical theory, all the Marxism, the Frankfurt School. All comes through the universities. All of it. And then, of course, the universities create teachers and they go in and they start corrupting the middle schools.

3:01:05 And you know what else came out of universities? The Harvard Report. This is Logan Westbrook, a mover and shaker. I don't know if you know him or not. You see, like, you know, everybody in the bus, but this is Logan Westbrook. And he, this is an older clip, and he's going to describe the Harvard report, which is CBS. Would you like to tell people what you call CBS? Oh, the Central Intelligence Broadcasting Systems. Okay. CBS commissions Harvard to do a study 50 years ago. Are you seeing the timeline here with hip-hop? I'm with you. We're celebrating 50 years.

3:01:48 CBS commissions Harvard to do this report. This is Westbrook's early take on it. Most of my exposure has been on the business side. side, the marketing and the motion. I have put out a copy of the Harvard Report, which has never been released. And I put it out in its raw form, just as it was presented to me from the students at Harvard. So it can be very, very controversial. Some say that the Harvard Report was the beginning of the demise of Black Record Compass. Well, I have released this book just as it was presented to me by you formerly.

3:02:33 What did people think about that? Well, again, it's so easy for one to follow a myth. They're really saying is that Clive Davis and his big mighty company decided to hire these students to do this report. And when they did this report, they used this as a blueprint to follow this report to swallow up the Black Record Compass and put them out of business. That's what they're saying. That's not true. That's what they're saying. And even when Ancle Biggles, who was the owner of Stacks Records, he sued CBS Records and he used that report.

3:03:16 Oh, man. I have not met him. But if you go to his website, Loganwestbrooks.com, right there's a big picture of him and Obama. Right on another CIA cutout. Oh, man. This is great. Interesting. Very protective of Clive Davis. Oh, yeah. Clive Davis has had his fist on black music in his clutch, I would say, for a very long time. And Clive Davis, very blackmailable.

3:03:56 And I think they got him for a moment there. That was, it wasn't even that long ago. There was some payola scandal. And even though it turned out that it wasn't really anything to do with him, he got implicated in it. He got fired from his own company. He was Mr. Whitney Houston. He created Whitney Houston. And then the way the story goes, he was very callous around her death. The show must go on kind of thing, which kind of made him lose favor. He's very tied in with Diddy, aka Puff Daddy. Yeah, and there's a lot of rumors about them being romantically involved. Yes. But we know how the CIA gets down. They use sexual blackmail to control, you know,

3:04:42 to control all. But it's funny that Mr. Logan Westbrook uses words like myth and, you know, this basically, you know, this is a story concocted to make Clive Davis look bad. That was the, that's what we take away from 49, right? Yeah. Well, as these men get all these bullet men get older and the doors start to shut on them, I think this is maybe the 49 was maybe 10, maybe 15 years ago, just looking at the camera quality and the dress. This is more recent. This is on the anniversary of the 50-year

3:05:21 release of the Harvard report, well, the commission of it, not the release of the book. He's changed his tune a little bit. So tell us what the Harvard Report is and how it started. The Harvard Report was a study that was conducted in 1972. And it was commissioned by CBS under the auspices of Clive Davis and Bruce Lundball. Bruce Lundbaugh, who was the VEP of marketing, who I reported to, and he came up with the idea to conduct this study using some students there at Harvard, the Beast School students, as a project.

3:06:04 And they took it on. I was a liaison between CBS and Harvard. And I worked directly with those students and guiding them and conducting that study. And the results of that study was called the Harvard Report. Basically, it was a blueprint. It was a blueprint for penetrating the black music marketing and also with the intentions of dominating black music and black audience. That was the purpose. Power 101. The Harvard Report. I thought it was a myth. No, it's real. And Mr. Logan said it. Mr. Westbrook said it was in his original clip, 49. He said it was

3:06:48 a myth to make Clive look bad. Now he's the liaison going because. going between the two uh institutions, being the bag man basically. And it's the blueprint, it went from a myth to a blueprint. Which one is it? A blueprint. This is interesting because this, of course, is around this time. This is where we start to get the conspiracy theories about a relatively small group who got together and said, Hey, you know, this hip-hop thing, we got to do something with that. We got to control that. Yeah, that we can control the mass. We can do stuff with this. And is that, am I going to presume 94 might have some of that? Yeah, we're going to get, we're going to go.

3:07:32 Like I said, I had to lay the plat the foundation down to show you all the inner workings, the shift from this higher infinite power that this group of people has that has to be controlled. Gospel music is nothing means gospel means the good news. The machine can't allow the good news to go because it teaches about liberation, freedom, you know, and being independent. Love and love. Oh my God. Right. Let's not let's not forget that. So, what they done is promote the secular music, which basically inverts gospel music.

3:08:13 And at the same time, they hijacked the black secular music by eliminating Sam Cook and putting in other figures of power. We'll get that to that in 94, maybe. And then they got a 50-year plan of how they rap. And they're right on schedule. Black music is wrapped up. How you talked about 100 songs they picked from? Yeah. On the black radio, it's 10 songs. Yeah. Well, that's going to be interesting when we see things change with value for value music. This is what you were talking about, serendipitous. Yes. Right around this time. Right as we're celebrating 50 years of Jay-Z.

3:08:53 I'm sorry, hip-hop. On time. It's just the crazy thing. On time. No, there's no coincidence in the kingdom. Mo. This happens. All this happens for a reason. I love it. I love that you brought this today. This is fantastic. I appreciate that. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. And we will try to get to you with 94 as soon as possible. Thank you. And remember to support us at MoFax.com. We'll see you soon, everybody, with episode number 94. I'ma go get the bottle with you. Smoke a logi, won't get the danger, tell the bottle with you.

3:09:56 Cause I find you said to me, You said your name was Lucy. I said, Where's Ricardo? You said, Oh, no, not the show. They spread a little rap to me like this. When I turned 26, I was like, Oh, shit. You said to me, I remember what you said, too. You said, My name is Lucy Kendrick. You introduce me, Kendrick. Usually, I don't do this, but I see you and me, Kendrick. Lucy, give you no worries. Lucy got millions of stories about these rappers that I came after when they was boring. Lucy, go fill your pockets. Lucy, go move your mama. How the confidence is that gigantic matching, like I promise. Lucy just wants your trust and loyalty. Avoiding me, it's not so easy. I'm at these functions accordingly, Kendrick. Lucy, don't slack a minute.

3:10:37 Lucy work harder. Lucy gon' call you even when Lucy knows you love your father. I'm Lucy. I loosely earned friends on your first album. Truly, Lucy, don't mind. Cause at the end of the day, you'll pursue me. Lucy, go get it. Lucy, not there, make Lucy a front. Lucy got paperwork on top of paperwork. I want it. You don't know that Lucy got you all your life. I watched you. And now you all go up to sign this contract gift. That's possible. I'ma go hit the bottle with you. Smoke a logi, won't get the danger to the bottle with you. Cause I want you to ride here right now. Registration that's out of service. Smoke a logic, drinking emotion. You can sing it's worming. Cause I want you.