55: Trappers Delight

00:08 Mo Facts with Adam Curry for December 7th, 2020. This is episode number 55. I'm Adam Curry in Austin, Texas. And from somewhere in Northern Virginia, fresh new member of the 40 Club. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Mo Facts. Celebration. Come on. It's our celebration. Hey, Mo man, 40, you baby. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. You made it. You made it. I did make it. And as I teeter on the hill, I'm not over it yet. I'm teetering for this year, and then I'll be over the hill.

00:53 But I'm 40 and I feel great. And do you have a nice celebration at home? Did your family come over, hang out? I have to explain to people for one second. From the last, from the 28th of October until January 1st, it is like one big blur. Because I have my two daughters' birthdays. Then you have Halloween, Thanksgiving. My dad's birthday was the 27th of November. Then mine's the 4th. My brother's the 9th. So it's just been one big for no pun intended celebration. And

01:33 man, we turned up, me and my wife and the kids. You know, thinking about that, maybe you should just gather the whole family and go on a cruise for six weeks and do it all in one go. Just party every night. We might just do that from now on because it's a wild time. I mean, it's a great time, but it is a wild time here around the fax house. Oh, very good, Mo. I'm happy you're happy in good health. And man, I'm glad that we're back on the microphones because I've been Jones in to talk to you. It's been just a tad over two weeks. So I'm excited. It's a highlight.

02:14 I've been Jones in too, and this topic that we're going to cover so we can jump right in it because I have a pretty full bag. No. Just before I spin the wheel of topics, I've noticed in the parlance that the term bag can be used very universally. So we have, we got the bag with the money. We got the bag with the money when you're getting caught. And you got the bag, which is, I don't know, Mo Fax Doctor Kit of Goodies. So bag is pretty darn universal. I mean, and it's another one where when you're in your bag, that's like when you're in the zone or

02:51 you're doing your thing. So, all right, let's get in our bag here, ladies and gentlemen. Let's find out what the topic's going to be for Mo Facts with Adam Curry, episode number 55. Nobody knows where the wheel of topics will blows. Except Mo, of course. He knows exactly what it is. The topic for episode 55 is... How do you know when a mindset has become a mind trap? Ooh, lots of mind stuff in there. Mindset, mind trap, mind control. I'm all over it. So you might need to get your passport for this, Adam, because I'm going to take you on a trip to the trap. All right. I'm good to go. So there was a cultural event that happened maybe two, three weeks ago, probably unbeknownst to you, but it was on Instagram and it was the versus battle between Young Jeezy and Gucci May.

03:46 I heard of it, of course, had no idea where to look for it. Twitter did not bleed it into my feed, so I completely missed it. It was 2 million live viewers or almost 2 million. I think it did clip 2 million live viewers on Instagram. Wow. And then you got to factor in all the other subsidiary streams of people streaming it. Is this an annual event that comes back every year? No, actually, this is one of the great things that came out of the whole COVID situation. So let me explain. Let me explain versus first so we can get into that. And that's V-E-R-Z-U-Z, right?

04:27 Versus. That's correct. Yeah, it was put together by Swiss Beats and Timberland. And what they do is they take two celebrities that are somewhat equally matched or have somewhat similar catalogs. I think it's 20 songs per piece are played. And, you know, it's kind of like a friendly battle. Yeah. But this one was a different. This one had a total different context. But wait a minute. Is it like a. a rap battle, like the old Kiss FM Los Angeles days, where you throw down against each other, or is it something else?

05:08 Say that again? You were breaking the population. Oh, I said, is it like one of the old rap battles from the late 80s, you know, Kiss FM Los Angeles? Or is this something else? Is this just pure DJing? No, no, no, no, no. You actually have the two celebrities there. Yeah. For instance, they had, I think, Patty LaBelle and Gladys Knight. I think those are the two. Oh, wow. Okay. So that's a match. And what do they do then? So they play one song from Patty, one song from Gladys. Or I mean, you had Timberland. I forget all the ones that we had. The biggest one I paid attention to was The Rizzer versus DJ Premier.

05:48 Right. Right. What do you do? How do you win? The people decide. And how do they decide? I'm just drilling down, Mo. I really want to understand. I know. I know. I'm assuming that this is why we do this. Yeah, I have no idea. So, okay. I mean, it's like American Idol where you got a text and call vote or people yelling and screaming on the floor. No, it's strictly social media fault. There's no score kept. Everybody has their own scorecard. Oh, okay. I get it. Oh, this is that's even better that way. I like it. It is because it creates a bunch of who actually won, and it's people score. It's like boxing. I mean, the best argument. Well, how about it could be boxing or politics?

06:31 It's the same thing. Everyone yelling for one. Depends on how you count it. Yeah. Exactly. Was this done in the politician voting way, or was this done in the boxing way? Yeah, it was done in the boxing way where everybody has their own card. Got it. And you might score it, let's see, 11-9 or, you know, because it's like I said, I mean, excuse me. Yeah, 11-9 because it's 20 songs and they run them down one against the other. And this is amazing that you never heard. I mean, because this is big. This was like the biggest

07:14 celebrity event in the quote-unquote black. Are you confused with Adam from 20 years ago who was supposed to show up and see that? No, I'm surprised I bleed over. Not at all, man. It did not. Once we get into it, you'll see how big it was. I don't want to. So to give background, we have Young Jeezy and Gucci Mane. They are two trap rappers. And some may say they are the king of trap. And this is what this was going to decide, but they also have a bad blood between them. So that's what we're going to explore. And then also we'll explore the political implications and the social implications and all of that.

08:00 So I didn't think, I don't think anybody covered it from the point that we're going to cover it from. So, but I guess we need to warn people. This is a hardcore rap. So I guess we need to warn people at this point. Some viewers may find the following disturbing. Viewer discretion is advised. We always try to keep it family friendly. We get a lot of comments. I certainly try hard. I know, Mo, you barely cuss, but this may be a little more on the edge because of the content, because of the clips. And that's just a fair warning for those who want, maybe want to screen it before you let your kids hear.

08:36 Correct. But I will say this: it is very pertinent to a lot of people's kids because, as you know, they're watching. Trap rap is the most widespread form or genre of rap right now. So it's not like your kids are not exposed to this type of music. So with that said, so we're actually, this warning is for you parents as a trigger warning when you find out what your kids are actually doing when you're not looking. Got it. Correct. So what we want to do is get into a little background about the trap itself. And this is Atlanta 1.1. Hi, it's Thomas.

09:19 Welcome to Atlanta, the City Too Busy to Hate, drug trafficking hub for the East Coast and the home of trap music. Trap music is. I crack baby beats. That's what we call. When a rapper's rapping, you should be able to smell the dope cookie. You should be able to see the. fucking dope cookie. You should be able to visualize and see that shit.

10:01 Sometime you wish, sometime you lost Atlanta's history is intimately tied up with transportation. When it started, it was at the end of all the railroad lines in America. Then Sherman came in, burnt those all to the ground, and they just kind of replaced them with highways and plopped the biggest airport in the world on top of everything. So it's basically where every road in the East Coast comes through, which makes it an ideal spot for drug trafficking. Yay! Yay! Off the bat, we're into the good stuff.

10:47 So we're back in Atlanta. Yes, exactly. That was Curtis Snow, and he's famous for making, I think, the Netflix movie Snow on the Bluff. And if anybody wants a visual representation or a account of what the trap is, you may want to check that movie out. Of course, it's adult content, so just beware. But as he said, it's very chaotic. The music is. It's very gritty. And it was birthed out of the trap house. So the trap house is similar to what they used to call the crack house.

11:29 And the trap itself is basically the drug subculture in Atlanta and other southern states. And I want to juxtapose that because I'm from the South. So we didn't really have the project buildings like in New York and those things. You had more neighborhoods and houses and that kind of thing. So that's what became the trap in the drug trade. And that's as in those city blocks or those streets, they were just, it was all drug trafficking. So that whole area was the drug track for everything that was going on there. Yeah, and it's not the whole neighborhood.

12:14 You might have had one or two trap houses in the neighborhood, but we're going to get a further explanation, but I want to set people up to see where we're going here. And like they said, Atlanta is one of the main hubs because you have all the major interstates run through Atlanta. So that, and then you have the, you know, the largest airport in Atlanta. So all of these things play into creating the trap. So we're just going to give a little background on the environment and how it birthed the music and then how the music birthed these two artists. And then their conflict is going to be a microcosm on what goes on in these communities.

12:59 Okay. So good. This is decoding the quote-unquote urban CNN. All right. So I guess we can get into Atlanta 2.1. I mean, let's give me 1.2. We keep hearing about the trap. What is the trap? It's just what it is. It's a trap. So when you get caught up, it got damn well. It's one way in, one way out. That's a trap. Yeah. A trap got to be... A trap going to be just what it is. It's a trap. Oh, man. Yeah, it's a trap. It's just a trap. That's why it's trap music. Exactly. Whatever's a trap is a studio. Yeah, shit, go together.

13:40 It's hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Can't have the trap without the studio without the dope. The dope is what inspires do rap. No, what happened when the guys from Detroit came in? Like BMF. Do you remember them? Them boy goddamn used to throw parties everywhere. You know, everybody had dope. Everybody. See what the mood was with the money. They rap shit. That was the person with the money. All you had to do was goddamn damn near gold. And then you got to do nothing to put your money in there. Okay. I have a question.

14:20 Because I'm a big fan of associating music with drugs. So, you know, 60s, 70s, marijuana, we had disco, cocaine. We certainly have a rave culture with MDMA, Molly, ecstasy, et cetera. In trap, what's the dope of choice? Well, the dope to sell is crack and pills. Then you have the drug to use in the trap. trap became prescription drugs, xannibars, lean, which is the cough medicine that they pour with soda. Reed, of course, and then Molly. Molly is a large part of

15:05 trap as well. So, and please ask a lot of questions because I don't want to make any assumptions because I want you to bounce off of me. Right. Well, that way the audience is not, or the producers are not lost. Oh, I don't make any assumptions. Sure. So, just so you said something interesting: the drug to sell versus the drug that's used. So, is that two markets? People are coming in to buy, and they're just coming into the trap neighborhoods of the trap house to buy, and they're going away. They're not selling to themselves. Yeah, I mean, yeah, of course, but then you have you won't have a

15:51 trapper using crack. I mean, they will. I mean, it's a thing called a table habit. So, when you taste in to make sure the potency is there, you may pick up a habit, but it's not like they're actively smoking crack. Okay, so they have a different appetite than what they sell. Okay, so now I'll ask you, I'll ask to you succinctly just because, just for my own edification, what is the drug of choice when producing the music? Lean and weed, lean and weed. And lean was the cough medicine you mix with soda, yeah, the purple, and that's where you heard purple. This is when I saw okay, a little let's take a sidebar here.

16:35 Sure, so lean lean came out of Texas way back. We're talking about UGK early 90s, but it didn't really explode into what it is now until maybe the early 2000s. Sorry, UGK, yeah, Underground Kings. Thank you. Uh, that's uh, Bun B and the late Pimp C, the late great Pimp C. Let me put some respect on Pimp C name. Um, so these are the godfathers of trap music, them Scarface from Ghetto Boys. Um, they're the godfathers of trap music, but it wasn't trap then.

17:12 But the see, hip-hop is very regional, and the down-south artists look to other down-south artists for influences. They don't really mess with New York artists like that. Sure, so okay, and then that's why I said UGK and uh Scarface loop to some uh to some extent from Tulak Crew. Those are the godfathers of trap music. Oh, let me not forget 36 mafia. You see what's because I want to get on the screen. You see what 36 mafia is. What's interesting is that, um, and I say this because the real

17:52 the whole rave culture and you know, DJs making millions of dollars a year is interesting because the DJs, as far as the ones I know, are clean as a whistle. They're nerds. They're, you know, they used to study mathematics and crap like that. So they make this music, as far as I know, completely sober, but it's consumed often in large settings, raves, arenas, etc. And Ecstasy and MDMA and Molly, they're really designed for that kind of music. So it's interesting when you have perhaps a different drug being consumed while producing it versus the people who are listening.

18:33 But is that also lean and weed for people who are just in who are enjoying trap house trap music? Yes, yes. But the majority is, I mean, like I said, I got to try some of this lean then. I mean, I'm going to see what you're doing. No, you don't. No. Are you sure? Because I'm experimental, Moe. I'll do something. I don't care. Well, I mean, for one, they took the purple off the, I think it was Activist. It was the purple when they took it off the market due to Justin Bieber. So when he started, it got to that height of celebrity. And so they pulled it off the market. And I think it was Activist, if not mistaken. But anyway, it's basically cough cert with codeine in it.

19:15 Lil Wayne's known for it. This is when you saw the styrofoam cups, the double cups pop up. Okay. These things, you probably seen them pop up, but you didn't understand what was. The Trayvon Martin case was surrounded around lean. Really? And that's why his iced tea and the Skittles, that thing, that meme that popped up. Because that's what they do. They pour up with your salt. You put the... I never use. lean, so this is third-party outside looking at it. You're reliably informed, yes, right. So basically, you have ice, you have your cough syrup, uh, you pour up with some soda.

20:00 Sprite is usually the choice soda, and you put uh candy in the bottom of it to make it sweet. So that's what that was all about. Holy crap, yeah, that's why I want to do this show because this is why, and we uh, excuse me, lean got so widespread all across Africa. Lean epidemic, and this shows you the power of hip-hop. Yes, wait, yes, wait, um, this show you the power of hip-hop as a vehicle to take a message globally. And this is part of the reason why I want to do this episode and do this show. And I handled it with care.

20:41 I just don't want to talk about the battle. And we're not going to talk about the battle very much. It's just like pre-post-battle and the implications. So that's where lean popped up at. Scissorp. Yeah, scissor is another. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I'm putting this in the show. It's drank. I'm trying to think of any other names. Purple was the big, like, that was the most popular one. And you couldn't, see, I'm, I'm a little after that. When Trap hit, I was maybe early to mid-20s. So I was still consuming the music, but I had already, my taste had been defined.

21:20 So trap wasn't really my thing. But when you're listening to mixtapes, all you started seeing on mixtape websites is purple, purple, purple. Everything was purple. Wow, interesting. Well, of course, cough syrup is an opioid. You know, it can be addictive. There's no doubt about it. And cough syrup is not new because even though I mentioned, I mentioned before that it rose up in the 90s, in the 70s, they were drinking it because my dad would tell me about it. And it had a different name to it. I'm trying to think the name they used to refer to it. He was like, oh, no, we were doing that back in the 70s. Where you been, son? Yeah, I think they put something in cough syrup to make you sick now if you drink too much of it.

22:04 Yeah, well, they also made it harder to buy. And I want to show you another thing. This is just me, my perception. I have no proof to make this statement, but I noticed Night Quill came out with a product that was not cough syrup. No, it was called to make you sleep. And what color was it, Adam? Purple. Thank you. Wow. I remember because I remember my daughter saying, oh, I want some quill. I'm like, what? She's, oh, yeah. She was pouring out. Yeah. She said, get me some, get me some Z quill and solo cups, dad.

22:43 I'm like, okay, whatever. No, I'm just kidding. But this is really interesting because this is an epidemic that is not spoken of at all. Everyone's talking about weed and heroin. And this is, I mean, I thought this was, honestly, the cough syrup thing. Honestly, I'm always honest with you. The cough syrup thing, in my mind, was like a, and I'll just use the terms, okay? White trash, cooking it to make a really poor man's white trash meth. That is my, that's the only real thing I associate cough syrup with in an abusive way.

23:24 Yeah, that was the, I forgot what it's called, but they put it behind the counter and you can only buy like two boxes at a time, one box at a time. Exactly. No, this is actual prescription. And the other thing is it was prescription. You had to have a prescription to get to it. Got it. But obviously, I mean, it made it to the streets in large quantities and nobody asked any questions about it. So that lets you know how these pharmaceutical companies really get down. You're going to say something? No, no, no, no. That was just me going, and then other things. All right, we're done, bro. I've learned enough for today. I don't need to know anymore. 24 minutes of show.

24:06 Perfect, everybody. All right. So let's not belabor the lean point, but that was a good question about the drug of choice. I guess we're getting right into 2.3. And what better guide to take us through Atlanta's underworld than the double? He can go anywhere. He's certified. Yeah, you ain't got to worry about getting your cameras took, your car took, none of that. What's your nickname on the double? Seriously, though, the devil has spent the last decade working with rappers from some of the city's seamiest neighborhoods and documenting life and the traps that Gabe Atlanta had seen and not seen its name.

24:59 Where is Pink City? Pink City is gone now, but Pink City was on Helly Street between Edgewood and Auburn. And that was like the last of the Mohicans for like a really rolling ass Atlanta trap. Like, yeah, I pulled up this shit was like fucking zombie movie. You know what I mean? Now, wait a minute. They're discussing certain trap houses. Just areas in Atlanta that were traps. I mean, that were real traps. So I played that clip just to show you that there's levels to it. The rappers that you see that actually make trap music, a lot of them don't even go to the real traps.

25:42 Oh, sure, of course not. They don't have hood passes. Hood passes. No, that's nah. That's a real thing. And let me explain. Let me explain why. I mean, I'm going to try to do this in a minute. Yeah, go for it. A hood pass is basically for like artists. So when artists come to town doing shows, because when you do shows, you're not doing the big arenas. You're doing clubs and those kind of things. Calls have to be made. Hood taxes have to be paid to get your hood pass. So you don't get shot. Well, so you don't get accosted and your taxes are collected by force.

26:23 Got it. And what kind of tax could I expect for a hood pass? That would be negotiated by the size of the star. Like I said, you had to, like I said, I'm thinking the term they use, but basically you have to make calls before arranging visits to that town. Wow. To let everybody know, hey. It's just like the mob. It is. Well, of course it is. Let me see. Drugs, payoffs. Sounds like organized crime.

27:00 Yeah. And in that previous clip, I think in 1.2, BMF, a black mafia family, was mentioned, which is the crew of all crews in popular culture. But we'll get to them later on in the show. I guess the question I have is a trap house. Now, this is where people also. So, I mean, will the trap house have 10 people, 100 people? I mean, how big are these? Are these mansions? Are these rundown slums? Just give me a picture. Okay. So what you have normally is, you know, the smaller houses in low-income communities. And you don't have that many people. And I could say this on good account because I've, let me, let me see.

27:43 I could say this. I had a very, very, very, very close family member that had a trap house. Okay. And usually what goes on in there is a lot of NBA 2K, where at the time it was NBA Live when I was frequenting this place. A lot of weeds smoke. And you do your transactions out of the house, right? And you do the processing. But then you have a house. Does the house take a piece of the transaction? No, the house is ran by the whoever's transacting. Got it. Right. And then you have several different trap house.

28:27 One guy might have several different trap houses. And the reason why I say this, even though I grew up in a middle class, lower middle class. I was quite above lower middle class. My dad was a teacher. My mom was a social worker. So they didn't make a lot of money. But they made enough not for us to have to live in, you know, urban hoods, quote unquote, pips hoods. But with family and those kind of things, you would go to neighborhoods and be like, oh, that's the trap house. Now, in Atlanta, there was a specific type of trap house called a bando. And a bandos was short for a bandit.

29:08 So they would go in to a bandit house, hook up power, water, you know, turn the water back on with the key to the city, what they call it. And get things popping. So my version of this, when I was young, is someone would have weed, and then we'd go to that someone's house whose parents weren't there. And it could easily be 10 guys. guys. Never girls, 10 guys. We sit around, we smoke weed, and then we watch the faces of death video or maybe Diana Ross in the round.

29:45 I don't know why I just can't remember that for some reason. And, you know, we see like, oh man, and this is teenager stuff, but it wasn't organized. All right. But the guy who had it would also sell to you. So it was, I guess, a version of that. And the really professional, because it leveled the trap house. It's like, I mean, everybody calls it a trap. If you're a low-level dealer, you're not going to have your house set up in the way that a real trap star would have it set up. And that's with the bars and the windows and impenetrable. Yeah. He's got the safe room in the back. He's got the ladies processing the cash. This is my movie.

30:26 But that's the image of, you know, that's painted. And it was painted by movies because, sure, the cooking up with women with no clothes on that came from New Jack City. Exactly what I'm thinking of. Exactly. Yeah, I want one of those rooms. And then, you know, you have, okay, so you have New Jack City, Menaces Society shows you how to cook crack. Yeah, those are not movies, those are instructional videos, basically. Exactly. So just to lay it out, what's going on here? And we're headed somewhere, but let's go ahead and get into 2.4. Crackheads and shit, shitting in the middle of the street. Like it was like an extended stay motel, maybe 17 or 18 rooms.

31:10 And the only motherfuckers in there were dope boys and smokers. So like when you went in there, like that was a real trap. Like, you know what I mean? They're not going to open the gate unless they know who you are, know what you're doing, know what you want. Like around the world, like people are using the word trap, but they don't even know what the fuck that means. You just get trapped in it? I don't know. How do you, where did a trap, where trap come from? I'm not even sure. I mean, I don't know either. But we just know that's a genre and they figure out. Is this a white girl? Yes. And a white guy. Like the beads. The beads? Like, it's an Atlanta concept because Atlanta was developed around railroads. So there's a lot of one-ways and dead ends.

31:52 So when you pull into a one-way or a dead end, you go down to the end of the street where there's some dope at. That's a fucking trap. Because if they draw down on you at the end of the street, you're fucking stuck. Pink City may have been paved under to make way for lofts and brunch spots, but Atlanta has no shortage of other traps resisting the crush of gentrification. Oh, okay. Got it. So, so the layout of the city and how the neighborhoods are configured, one ways, those kind of things, made out where traps are. Yeah, made it perfect for this. Right. And there was one hotel in Durham where I'm originally from.

32:33 It was right behind the police department. And it was one of those kind of hotels where you pay by the day. And, you know, it's kind of that seedy. You think? Yeah. But it was allowed to happen. And it's not a city of Durham. I can't, I can't remember the name of it now, but people from Durham know what I'm talking about. And it was allowed to be. And it was, I mean, because like you could set up a trap anywhere, to be honest. But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But now we have to get into who invented trap music. And there's a lot of argument about this. Let's play the clip and then we'll come on the backside and see who actually invented trap music. In 2017, rap and RB surpassed rock as the biggest genre in the U.S.

33:17 based on album sales and streams. And trap is arguably rap's most popular subgenre. That means millions of Americans of every shade right now are listening to music that invokes the cultural legacy and ongoing struggles of segregation, structural racism, and urban violence. When you think about somebody like a T.I., right? He talks about the consequences of what it means to be a trapper. And he uses the music to kind of work through that. This is interesting to me how everything is all trap everything. And I'm like, I mean, I dealt with my students. So it's like, you have trap yoga, trap and paint, trap karaoke, trap water. And I'm like, I mean, I am a trap purist. I really need to get a shirt. It's just basically me sitting on the porch, so to speak, and being like shaking my fist.

34:02 Like, no, this is a trap. But I'm slowly but surely coming to, you know, grips with the fact that trap music is now trap aesthetics because it does have that kind of distinct print that can be used to update or remix other genres that are already in place. But I also wish that folks would also, you know, basically give receipts and credit where credit is due. This just didn't come out of nowhere. Trap didn't just come out of nowhere. You know what I'm saying? saying? Ah, man. I got to open a trap karaoke bar in Austin. They probably already beat you too. It's just perfect. Because it's been monetized so much.

34:43 They have, like she said, Trap Water, Trap Yoga. Right. When I hear commercials now have Trap Music. Yeah. When I hear someone say the systemic racism, I'm thinking, okay, Trapp's been hijacked probably. Yes. Very, very long time ago. And it started with these two gentlemen and the verses. But let's just have a quick conversation on who started Trap. All right. So some people say T.I. started Trap because he had an album, I think his first album called Trap Music. But who brings to mind the first trapper I remember seeing was Cool Breeze.

35:23 He used to be with Outcast and he kind of set that model for, you know, like the Atlanta trap trap Trap Boy. So, yeah, so I mean, it's just who, who, and then people, some people say, well, Gucci Man started it. And other people say, well, Jeezy made it popular. And this is where the crooks comes in of who birthed trap music. Also, I want to make one other point and then we can move on. It always troubled me that it was called a trap. I'm like, hello? Is the irony lost on you? That it's called a trap. Right? You're playing with your life one way in, one way out. Like the man said, or dead end.

36:08 I mean, that's or dead end. Right. So I never, that's why I was it's weird because me coming up, I was listening. I listened to Outcast and Goody Mob. And they were from Atlanta. And they looked at the trap as a negative. So when especially the outcome, it wasn't the outcast, wasn't there a whole vibe to be positive and upbeat? Yeah, but well, but while being realistic, I mean, they didn't sugarcoat it. Right. They were like, yeah, we know these are the things, but it's we got to do better. Like one of their famous songs would get up, get out, and do something. Right. So they were always positive.

36:51 So when I started to hear this quote-unquote trap music come in, I had mixed feelings about it because I'm like, I grew up thinking this, but at some point, crack was made cool. And I think that really gained popularity with Jay-Z. There was a lot of drug dealer rappers before him. I'm not saying that, but he laid down the blueprint of sell drugs, get famous, take that money, huh? Yeah, sell drugs, take that money, get famous. Yeah, flip it. No, flip it into your music career. Right. And that's how you get out.

37:33 I mean, it's like, get in, get your money, start a blabel, and then you can be successful. And that's what Curtis Snow was referring to. You know, the money drug dealers would fund rappers. They were looking for rappers to fund. Like, oh, you can rap. You can claim our set. You can claim my crew. We'll put our chain on you. And the chain is very important. The chains are people think these chains are just jury. No, no, no, no. They are very important. You're going to hear why later on. But that's kind of how this whole thing started happening because you had a guys with a bunch of money that were looking to laundry it.

38:17 So it's like, let's start a label. Who was really the, you know, I understand the content. I understand the lyrics, but really the beats, really the music, which is very distinct. Who would you say was the beatmaster that started that in trap? So you had the 808 come from Miami, the sub-bass, and then you had the, you know, the hot hats, the triple hot hats. Who started it? Well, you got DJ Tomp. He gave us the T.I. flavor of trap music. But Zayethoven,

38:58 I want to say it's a but I don't, you got about to get me killed because it's like, I don't want to give credit. I don't want to give credit to the wrong people. That's okay. But yeah, it was, it was several different producers that had artists they work with that they stylized their type of trap. Okay. But I would say Zayto, okay, let me explain this. The trap music that we we hear popular now was birthed by Zayethoven and Gucci Mane. There was another trap like Shorty Red and Jeezy, which was probably the most commercial successful trap music there is, but it didn't take hold like Gucci Man's trap music.

39:46 And all this is important. I know people like, why are we talking about rap engine trap music? Is it too early for me to talk about crunk? Because that's that I do know. Well, crunk was predated trap. Ah, okay. Which that was Little John and Esau Boys. That energy was crunk. So, but when the lean comes in, that doesn't really mix with the crunk. So that's where you get the slow down with the double hi-hats. And really, Chopped and Screw played a lot into this too. That's from Houston, where they would slow the music down really slow. And this is like the effect of drugs having on the music and the taste. But yeah, so

40:29 I don't want to get caught too much into the weeds of it, but that's the history of trap. Now I want to. Oh, well, we got one more clip and we're going to explain how historical decisions actually created the geographical trap in Atlanta. We talked to Kevin Cruz today about his article and his book, White Flight, to see if we could find any solutions to Atlanta's traffic problem. The rise of the modern expressway movement, the interstate highways in the 50s, really obviously a post-war transformation that hit American cities. At the same time, a lot of them are wrestling with issues of segregation. Cruz says there are two ways constructing highways played into segregation: making the highway so that it destroys poor black neighborhoods, or make a highway that separates them from white neighborhoods.

41:17 Local officials have a say in where these roads get placed, and it shouldn't be a surprise that as they're thinking about where they're going to drop highways and destroy neighborhoods, they invariably single out what they see as the worst neighborhoods in their communities. And these are overwhelmingly poor communities. And in most places, these are overwhelmingly African-American or in some places, Latino neighborhoods. The split is most noticeable along I-20. A report from the Georgia Historical Society says that while deciding the route of I-20, the Atlanta Bureau of Planning said it would be the boundary between white and African-American communities. With that logic in mind, is how you get the kind of contorted and

41:58 weird ways in which the highways in Atlanta and other cities take place. It only makes sense if you're thinking about, well, just from a pure traffic facilitation standpoint, we would put them this way. Yeah, Austin, Texas is a great example of that. Where we have I-35. Sorry? No, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, we have I-35 going right through town, and Eastside has always been poor. Pip's black. That's where I live. And to be honest, we have a bit of a trap problem here, but not so much trap houses. But we got a lot of people who got high-powered stereos in their cars and they like to congregate at night. And the bass rattles my windows. That's the trap. That's the trap bed.

42:41 That's the 808. The 808, that's the drum machine. That is the not only the drum machine, but that bass. That is the signature sound, that and the triplet hi-hats. That is a signature sound of trap music that thump. And you got to have big speakers in your car to play the thump. And that's a southern thing because in New York, you didn't have cars. So you would listen to your music in like on boomboxes or headphones. Down south, we had cars because you had to have a car to get around. You have public transportation like you do in the north. So the first thing you did was get

43:21 speakers. I don't care how raggedy the car was. You got some speakers, right? You had to get some speakers and get your cross stage music loud. You got to have the amp, you know, the crossover, the tape deck, the CD deck. Just as an aside, there were, I forget, it was in the Netherlands, and it was at the height of my television career there. And somehow I was paid to do an appearance at a car show that was specifically for audio. Now, I'm talking 80s when it was just starting with the crazy ass amps. And I remember there was a contest, and some for some reason I participated, sit in the car for I think it was two minutes at full blast.

44:06 And I think it actually did something. I mean, here I am with hearing problems, but it was unbelievable. It wasn't so much the sound, it was just how your body vibrated. And that's part of the sense. Of course. That's. That's so for some people that's desired. My brother, he had a Cherokee and he had like two 15s in it with like a thousand watt amp. And it would basically take your breath. Yeah. It would hit so hard. Yeah. So, I mean, that is a real stupid shit we do as humans. I'm never ceased to be amazed. Well, it's a mating ritual. Sure. That's exactly what it is. You come pull up, you throw people's attention. Yep. So it's attention you seeking. That's a mating.

44:51 That's a mating ritual irrespective of color. Yeah. So I just want, I mean, all these things have subtext to it. It's just not. I mean, that's a lot of things. A lot of times people just look at the surface and make judgment and don't really want to get into the weeds. But that's what we're going to do. That's what we do here on a week-to-week basis, show-to-show basis, but specifically this show because it's a lot to get to it. So Atlanta was the mecca of the South. When you lived in the South, you didn't say, oh, I want to go to New York and make it. It was, I want to go to Atlanta. What is Atlanta doing? That was the sister city to like Charlotte, North Carolina, and Durham.

45:34 And the same things you saw there, how they said the highways destroyed Atlanta, Durham Freeway destroyed Haytai in Durham. It ran right down the middle. So in these next set eclipse, we have where the Atlanta and trap effect is spilling over into small towns. You may remember the story about four LaGrange teenagers who say they were approached by a gang member. Those teenagers said no and in turn asked the CEO of the housing authority for jobs several times and they never gave up. Police say gangs are no longer just an inner city problem and it exists in small towns too.

46:14 The LaGrange gang unit took Foxwise Nathalie Pozo through some of the violent street gang areas and athlete detectives tell you that gangs have always had a place in small towns. Sine Tom, the gang unit with LaGrange, tell me the structure for gangs in the city have always existed. A few guys getting together and vowing to protect their neighborhood. Investigators say when known gangs like the Bloods or the Crips in larger cities like New York and Chicago find out about this structure, they offer their support becoming more widespread. It's a place where children play, an innocent scene. It's also a place where innocence is lost.

46:58 Police say places like these basketball courts can be a recruiting base for violent street gangs. We're playing basketball and a young man like 16 or something walked up to us and asked that, do we want to be in a gang? 14-year-old Damond and Deion Woodard and 13-year-old Jalen Parham and Dalek Smith say they were approached by a gang member at the LaGrange Housing Authority's basketball court. Yeah. So so these gangs, well, it started from the north, right? When you had all this supply and it was a saturated market, it's like, where do we go? So it was a term called going down south in New York and other places.

47:43 They would go to DC. Then D.C. and New York has a rival that, I mean, there's still a rivalry that goes on to this day. Even in Durham, we don't really care for New York people because the people you came encounter with from New York, not all, but some wanted to come in, set up shops. Yeah, take over the business. It's like a franchise. Well, it wasn't any takeover business. It was a drug franchise, right? I mean, you have your mom and pops thing going. It's like, hey, I want to bring a McDonald's in because I have all this inventory so I can drive the price down. Yeah, go ahead. Well, no, just a thought that crossed my head is that somewhere along the lines in this episode, people are going to realize how important the corrupt banking system is.

48:33 This is exactly why UBS, HSBC, the bank existed. They were laundering billions of dollars, billions. I've always said the 2008, the great, what they call the Great Recession. If we didn't have a drug trade, you and I would not be talking right now. This country, most countries, need drugs to run. The system doesn't work without it. And we're talking about the on-the-street level, but this goes way up the chain.

49:13 And it's funny that you say that. that because that was the height of trap music, or that was when trap music took its place as the king of rap in that very same time. And I was just like, I would love to go back and explore that the correlation between those two happenings. So much, so much more happening than we probably realized. That would be a great documentary and probably a life, a lifetime work to figure that out. Yeah, so you can see here now they're recruiting. I mean, just like when the McDonald's or Starbucks comes to town, you had to have employees. So the basketball are known. Yep, go to the basketball court in a housing project.

49:57 And that was the ideal place to recruit. And we can hear more with small town, too. And they kill Asthma. We kill San Look because I don't want to die. There's a lot of people getting killed over gang and going to jail. So I don't want to do none of that. So they very persistently asked the CEO at the LaGrange Housing Authority, John Ja Heard, for a job. Heard says when she realized why they wanted work, she hired them on the spot. We've got to find them something to do. We have to do it. There's just no way I can just send them back out and potentially be in a gang. We have had some gangster disciples in here over time. Sergeant Mark Cavender with the LaGrange gang unit knows the streets of LaGrange.

50:42 Pointing out the graffiti in high-profile gang areas. That's what I heard in Barry. That was more Roman 60 Cribs. Sergeant Cavender says rural communities are a breeding ground for well-organized criminal street gangs associated with larger cities in search of existing structure in small towns. Okay, you've already got the strokes from the foundation. We're going to give you the backing and the support of the Roland 60 Crips or the Pyru Bloods. Sergeant Cavender says they also look out for gang members who migrate from other areas into Georgia and LaGrange. They do have their local leaders, but we do have evidence that suggests that there's funding as well as reporting back to and even taking orders from other nationally known gang sets such as the Gangster Disciples, 82 Bishops.

51:29 I guess at this point, I'm curious: the gangs, the trap gangs, all black or are they Latinos? Are they separate gangs? Are they intermingle? I mean, I know it's a lot of questions, but no, no, no, no, it's great. It's uh, well, the gangs themselves are neighborhood-based, and I want to point that out because when I graduated in 1999, I barely knew any people that were in the gangs that we know, Bloods and Crips. It was more neighborhoods. You had Bragtown, Wall Town, Few Gardens, McDougal Terrace, all these neighborhoods.

52:09 But in a year of me going off and coming back to Durham when I went out to college for you and came back, gangs were everywhere to the point where Durham, Little Durham, North Carolina, has two gang documentaries. That's how fast it people come in. And I think this was spread through the federal prison system because when you would get locked up in the car get in, you get recruited. Well, no, they would send you all over the place, all over the country. I mean, you might get locked up in North Carolina and you go to Oklahoma and you might meet a guy from California there and he might have a connect, but he likes where you got to, you know, claim this or that.

52:52 It's like, all right, I'll franchise and you know, bring the franchise back. You hire all your employees. This is how it works. It's no different than any other business. No, no, you want to demonize and no, it's a very important business. Yeah. So do you bring your franchise back? Say, here's your uniforms. Here's your chain. Here's your chain. Here's your chain. And you set up shop. And I think that the federal prison system, I'm pretty sure, spread a lot of gang activity. One being because in Butner, North Carolina, which is like 20 minutes outside of Durham, is a huge federal penitentiary.

53:37 A penitentiary, yes. And I think a lot of the gang activity in Durham came from there. So, so yeah, so it bleeds over into small and small towns. So I'm just, I'm showing that how these things happen in major cities. I've never understood small towns. I've never understood why prisoners go, you know, if you can be arrested, arraigned, et cetera, sentenced in North Carolina, but then you got to go serve in a whole nother state. I've never really known what the purpose of that was, besides that you don't have a federal prison in every state. I understand that. If you want to be nefarious, it's a great way to cross

54:22 exactly. It seems like a huge failure on recidivism for just that one simple fact: putting people in different places where they meet new criminal gang members and might decide to set up shop elsewhere. And I'm going to foreshadow here because one of the popular documentaries of the early 1990s was Banging in Little Rock on HBO. Yeah, I remember that. And in Little Rock, it was nothing but Bloods and Crips. Right. And to myself, I was thinking, how did Bloods and Crips get into small little Little Rock? How'd that happen? But we'll see later how I think it happened.

55:03 Okay. Yeah, because that was a California gang. I mean, New York, they had bloods and that kind of thing. But just to see these kinds of things spread, it spread through music and I think the federal penitentiary system. That's just my from my perspective. So I guess we can go and wrap up with the final clip from Small Town. Investigators say the best recruiting tools are fear, intimidation, and the chance for fatherless boys to feel a sense of belonging. Kids who have little to no involved family involvement at home, you know, these gangs will give them that. They'll give them that family feeling that you belong to us, that sense of belonging.

55:46 Sergeant Cavender says arresting people will not solve the gang problem. The only way to change the problem is to change the thinking. Sports activities and people taking time with them other than the gangs or the crime side and mentoring them along the way and helping them. Help is what these teens got. They keep up the garden, clean the chicken coop, and more. Heard knows there are other kids out there who need help. And as hard as it is, she's had to turn children away because they simply do not have the space. We lose them. So that's concerning because I've heard the teacher say these were really three good kids, but we lost them.

56:30 Heard believes there's a lack of programs in the community and feels if there were more community engagement, mentoring, and education programs in elementary schools. Children would have an alternative. But we're hoping to capture them now at five, six, and seven. So when they become a teenager, that desire to be in a gang is not even there. To wrap up on the small town, I like to make a couple of points. One, so I was born in Spindale, North Carolina. Then I moved to Durham when I was like nine years old. But I would always go back to Spinda every summer to stay with my grandparents and my all-my family center there, aunts, uncles, those kind of things. So I would go back. And I remember one summer when I went back,

57:11 there was this guy named, I just call him S, right? So S, he lived down the street from my aunt, and my aunt lived, you know, in a low-income neighborhood. And he was like the first, in hindsight, the first drug dealer I saw up close. Because him and my brother went to school when my brother went to school back in Spindale, which is a very small town in North Carolina. So when he like he had a gun and he, no, I mean, because I mean, you don't see a handgun. I'll never forget it was a blue nine millimeter, and that was like the most fascinating thing to me, a blue gun, right?

57:51 So, um, and he had a CD player and a Mustang, and he always bought food for everybody, and everybody loved him. And it's not this people want to make it like, oh, they're oppressing the communities. El Chapo is loved in his community. Well, so was John Gotti. I mean, the same thing. These guys were handing out cash to people who needed it. Of course, that's how you run a successful criminal organization as syndicated. Sure. And I'm going to take the alley of handing out cash and I'm going to open on home with the wrapping up this story. So there was another guy that participated in the illegal pharmaceutical trade.

58:33 And what he would do is, so we had this gym that would open and we, Mr. Monroe, God bless Mr. Renro, rest in peace. He would open the gym up and that gave kids something to do while parents were at work or whatever. You couldn't afford daycare or this summer care camp that they have now. You would go to the gym, play basketball, Uno, those kind of things, Four Square. But it was this guy who would ride around the whole summer and he would drop dollars out of his car. And it was like a game. He would come by, drop a handful. handful of dollars out, and kids would scramble like wildfire, like trying to get the dollars. And then he'll come back around with the music thumping. I mean, just to give you the imagery. Yeah, he's like the ice cream man, just a different tune.

59:17 And it's funny that you say ice cream, man, because that is what Gucci is known for. It's the ice, is ice cream man. But that was, if I didn't have a father, like they said in the previous clip, that strong masculine energy being a boy, that would draw me in. Of course, you get it from the gang. Sure. Because I'm a 40-year-old man, and that's still etched into my memory. Like, how cool was that to be able to ride around and throw cash out your window to poor kids? And I'm sure he was like, I'm giving back. You know, I'm looking out. And I'm sure he got some kind of ego boost out of it too to see kids scramble like that. But it was like, this is one of my childhood memories.

1:00:02 So we're going to move over. Now we're in urban Atlanta and we're going to move over to Buckhead. This is Buckhead, a church over in Buckhead. And this guy, Clay Scroggins, gave a sermon on mind traps and the victim mindset. How do you stop these mindsets from becoming mind traps? No one likes feeling trapped. Can you remember the last time you were trapped? The problem is we have these thoughts and our thoughts, fortunately and unfortunately, can create feelings, feelings both in the here and the now. And it's not necessarily what happens to you, but it's the messages that you give yourself about what happens that determines your feelings.

1:00:45 And not only do our thoughts create all of our feelings, but the thoughts that defeat us are almost always fraudulent or wrong or distorted or illogical. And sometimes they can form a cycle, a mentality that becomes a trap. So how do you know? How do you know when a mindset has become a mind trap? There's an ancient Greek philosopher named Epictetus who said this: that we are disturbed not by things, but by the view in which we take of them. We think it's the circumstances that are depicted that are disturbing us, but no, it's our view of them that's actually disturbing us.

1:01:28 Yeah, that's pretty deep. It took me five decades to kind of figure that out. Yeah. So you live in. It's so easy to live in a mind trap. So if you say that was, he's talking about inside your inner thoughts. Now, say you are listening to music and your environment is a trap, literal trap. And you wonder why these kids and young adults get caught up in this lifestyle because it's like there's nothing better. And it's what politicians sell to them. Oh, there's no hope out there. You know, unless we help you, there's no hope.

1:02:08 Sure. So I played that clip because I was like, and he's from Buckhead, Atlanta. I was like, because I was looking up Mind Trap and that kind of thing. And it popped up. And I'm like, man, I'm going to say this to people. Through this process, when I do the groundwork for the clips and everything, it's amazing. I think it's called synchronicity. Yes. Of what is the odds of a reverend and Buckhead Atlanta? And Buckhead and Bankhead, those have connotations to it too, because Bankhead is the hood.

1:02:45 Yeah, Buckhead is rich neighborhood. Right. And it was a clip, and just to give just a music little tidbit of music, there was an on Outcast first CD. The guy was like, Yeah, I got these chains off of the folks off in Buckhead. So I was like, that's amazing that he's preaching over in the rich side of Atlanta about mind traps when you have the actual trap right across town in Bankhead and all the zones in Atlanta. So I just wanted, I wanted to share that. So I know people are like, well, I thought he was going to talk about Jeezy and Gucci. This is the point, but I had to lay all that out so you don't just look at them as rappers and entertainers and trivialize them.

1:03:30 Hopefully now people understand and humanize. This is what we like to do here. We like to humanize people and not make them in just to figureheads. Which is exactly what almost all media does. Even if you're trying to do an honest documentary, just that turns it into just the nature of a documentary turns it into dehumanizes people, strangely enough. Right. So now we get to Jeezy and Gucci. So this is going back to okay. And what we're referring to, all the, I apologize for all the

1:04:11 music bed. I know it's probably killing a lot of people. And I wanted to strip it out, but that's just been too much work to try to do it. So this is going back to the Vice Series Noisy in Atlanta. And this gives us some background on Young Jeezy. We're on Quality Sound Studios, the home of QC label. This is Migos' label, and it's run by Coach K, who's there dancing in front of the console. He's the Migos manager. He kind of discovered them. He's also Gucci Man's manager. And before that, he was Young Jeezy's manager. He is sort of like the Trap House Impresario, like the Tony Wilson of Trap.

1:04:53 I don't think trap music was really born until we put out Jeezy's first mixtape, which was the streets is watching. And then we put out Trapper Die. And I think after that, people got it. Jeezy wasn't even rapping, man. He was like on some CEO shit. He wanted to be Master P. He was a street nigga. It's like he was respected in the streets. You got to think about this. If he put out some whack music, then the street cats ain't going to respect him. They're going to be like, oh, you wasn't the rapping nigga? So he was a real, like, he, you know, he came in the game, a millionaire. And I can attest to that. You know what I'm saying? Well, Jeezy never officially signed with BMF. He ran with Big Neech and his crew during their heyday in the early 2000s.

1:05:33 BMF, man, Black Mafia family. They spent a lot of money. And I should tell Jeezy, you got to start talking about this shit in your music. Once he understood how to do that shit, it was over with. It was the soundtrack to the streets. For real. When that Jeezy hit that Thug Motivation 101 classic album, classic album, that was what kind of brought me into respecting trap music. Because what he did with that album, when you want to say, okay, sonically and

1:06:14 the level of just quality music, he kilted. I mean, this thing was a thing unto itself. He had the snowman t-shirts, which they end up banning. I remember that. Yeah. They abandoned. And then he had a smix tape followed up saying, Can't ban this snowman. It was so widespread. You know you're familiar who with the album? Yeah. It was mostly shorty red. But there was a host of other different producers on there as well. But the biggest contributor to the Adam album was

1:06:52 Shorty Red, which that's why I said he had a whole different brand of trap. And this predates the Gucci Man current trap that we have. This really very simplistic. This was like a very lush soundbed of synths and you had the Lowe's. And it was just a very quality product just from the musical standpoint of it. And that's what gave trap its credibility as a legitimate genre inside sub-genre inside of hip-hop. So much so that it influenced Kendra Lamar. And on Kendra Lamar's Good Kid Mad City,

1:07:33 basically, it's, I want to say, like maybe like a documentary album. What he does is he highlights what they call riding. So when you're a kid and you're poor or you don't have a lot of money, you fill up the car and you have your favorite CD or two and black and miles, maybe some weed, and you ride in freestyle. And what I did was I was able to collect all the skits or some of the skits from that album. And we're just going to listen to him and his friends interact around that Thug Motivation 101 album itself.

1:08:17 Get in the car, nigga. Come on, we're friendly to roll out. Nigga, I got a pack of blacks and a big CD. Get your freestyles rate. Now you faded up. Yeah, we finally got that nigga faded. I think he hit the wrong blood though. Ooh, which word? Which are you talking about? I hope he hit the motherfucking shenanigans. I'm afraid he hit that. That nigga say he ain't that one. Dapa shenanigans? Yeah, that nigga shenanigans. I think we should push back to the bedding. For real, though. Nigga, for what? What that nigga? What did that Jeezy song say, nigga? I was mad on these streets, man. Yeah, yeah, that shit right there. I'm trying to beat the nigga and shit. There you go.

1:08:55 bro. All right, here's the man, love. You can kick back as an alibi. Wait till the sun go down, roll out, please admission, drop K Dot off at his mama van at the park because I know they're trying to fuck my shereen tonight. Yeah, now they're gonna do it. And we all gonna meet back at the block at about 10:30. That's straight, boy. She just meet up around 12. We're trying to fuck up on a dumbass back down. You be saying that shit, like, matter of fact, nigga, get the motherfucking car. We're trying to get active. Can you give me a little context of what I would have been seeing? So, I mean, this is all audio because it's on his album. Okay, so what you have is a group of friends, and in the album, he explains it more.

1:09:34 So, you have a group of friends, and this is just an everyday conversation, uh, conversation and actions. Like I said, you get your in the reason why I relate to this because it's what it was. You got some black and mouths, you freak them. That's where you take all the tobacco out, and then you take the inner lining out, and then you put the put the tobacco back in. That's commonly known as blunt. No, but it's not a blunt because you put the tobacco back in. This is before you, you put it. This is wait, wait, wait, wait, you put the you take it out and you put it back in. You take it out, the tobacco, and it has this thick inner lining paper inside of it. You take that out, and then you put the tobacco back in, and it pulls harder, yeah, and it gives you a head rush,

1:10:19 and you will smoke like two packs of these. I mean, you can afford weed like that. I mean, but this is this is the rap. So, you're riding around and you have beat CDs, and and you freestyle, and we get tired of freestyling. You will listen to your album of choice. And at that time, like I said, I was maybe 25, 26 when Jeezy came out. So, I was past my riding days, but I could relate to this. And the reason why I played this clip was he's all the way in Compton, California. And Jeezy in Atlanta had an influence on him and his career by this album.

1:10:56 So much so that he let it be known in the skits to this classic album, Good Kid Mad City. So, I'm just gonna show you how white spray. Like they said, last time I checked, I was the man on these streets. That was like a quotable. So, when you get a hip-hop quotable, that's like scripture. Yes, I mean, that there's no other way to put that's like you've you've provided scripture to the hip-hop uh culture, and that was one of the many, that was one of the many quotables from that album. Uh, and his ad-libs, I mean, it was crazy, like, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

1:11:38 So, anyway, so I'm getting caught up. So, anyway, anyway, so yeah, because I mean, it's it's nostalgic for me. Um, but we're gonna get to the background of Jeezy and um Gucci Man some more. So, that was Jeezy's kind of somewhat back um uh bio. So, we're getting to uh Gucci Man's now. When did Gucci Man start coming around, too? Is he at the same time? He's at the same time. I mean, I want him and Jeezy to do some records together. He walks up on me, he says, You Coach K? I'm like, Yeah, he said, Man, I'm Gucci Man. You know what I'm saying? I'm the guy you've been looking for. With Jeezy at the top of his game, Gucci Man, the up-and-coming era parent, Coach K decided to put the two together in the studio to work on a song.

1:12:19 A song we all know is so icy. Goose came in the studio, man. I swear to God, he sung that hook so icy. Yo, he sung that hook all day. So, I told Jeezy Man, like, let's try this shit. You know what I'm saying? This shit might be crazy. This hook is melodic, you know. So, then Zaytovin comes in. Zaytoven is one of the first of Atlanta's super producers and the principal architect to the trap music sound. When I first came here, when I got my first hit, The So Icy with Gucci Man and Young Jeezy, it was very Bay influenced because I was just moving from the Bay Area. So, if you listen to the music, you're like, that doesn't sound like no producer that came out of Atlanta. You know what I mean? Because I was fresh from out of the Bay Area.

1:13:01 I was cutting here at the barbershop. Gucci Man called me, like, hey, man, Zay, young Jeezy want to do a song with us. I haven't made the beat or nothing, so I ran home, met him at my mama's house, made the beat in like five minutes, and then we went down to the studio to meet young Jeezy. You know, I'm from the bay still, so I don't even know if they would even like my beat. So, when we played the beat, they didn't even wasn't even feeling it for real until after the dude Lil Will son the hook, you know, the all these girls decided once you heard that and the beat going together. Then you start looking around the studio. Everybody in the studio got a pen and paper trying to write to get on the song. So, this is where Jeezy and Gucci Man's

1:13:44 paths cross with this classic song So Icy, which they they had never performed live and to the Versus. That's why this was such a big deal. And you're probably wondering why did they never perform this song live? Yes, Mo. Why did they never perform this song live? Well, so I have this next set of five clips, and this was done by this suburban kid. I forget the name of his channel. I'm sorry about that. But the reason why I chose him to tell the story is because this shows how street happenings make it into white suburban America.

1:14:27 So I wanted that perspective to explain what the real story behind Gucci Man and Jeezy. It's 1998, and Roderick Davis, better known by his rap name, Gucci Mane, is 18 years old and he's about to graduate high school. He was selling weed and cocaine to make money and decided to go to college because he qualified for a scholarship. He continued to make money and sometimes would record songs to mess around in the studio, mostly as a hobby. After going to college for about a year doing computer programming, he would get caught selling cocaine to an undercover police officer. He was given 90 days and probation. He lost a lot of his money and was kicked out of school, losing his scholarship.

1:15:07 He had some time to think about if this is what he wanted to do or something else. Upon finishing his sentence, Gucci decided he should just release a mixtape since he was already getting good at it and he's been rapping since he was 14. He used the little money he had left to finish the tape titled Gucci Mane LaFlaire, presented by Straight Drop Records. He slapped them on a thousand CDs and passed them all over Atlanta. This would work out extremely well for Gucci because he started to gain a buzz pretty fast. He saw an opportunity and decided he wanted to start his own label where he would recruit other artists as well. Around 2001, he met a barber named Xavier because one of Gucci's homies attended the same barber class. Xavier made beats and was trying to make a name for himself as well under the name Zethoven.

1:15:50 So a couple things. One, Zayethoven, by the way, is so recognizable. When you hear that, it's like, oh shit, Zethoven. Two, what is the distribution method? So you got the mixtapes, and I remember this being a big deal. Oh, man, this guy's everyone's got this mixtape. What is the commercial distribution method? At what point do you start making money with your music? Is that only when you get a distribution deal from a label? Or does everyone try to go and start a label themselves? Or I mean, it's just let me rephrase the question. How is it consumed? Is this music mainly consumed in the neighborhoods

1:16:36 on handout CDs, mixtapes, et cetera? Or is everyone running Spotify? Or is that when it goes mainstream and that's when the rest of the world, and that's when the real money comes in? Do you understand what I'm asking? So, yeah. So, this is pre-YouTube. Well, not you. We got to understand smartphone really changed things. And this is pre-smartphone. So people weren't getting online and listening to YouTube. I don't think SouthCloud existed at that time. The main method of distribution was the trunk of your car. Right. And that was the term out the trunk of you. You were saying, sell it out the trunk, which was popularized by none other than the great Master P, which we got to put some respect on Master P's name because he showed all these young guys, you don't need a record label.

1:17:23 Go straight to the customer. And one of the one, I mean, you'll get hip-hop quotable here. He says, 15% can't even pay my MF in rent. That's what Master P told him. Like, the little money that the record labels are trying to give y'all is bull crap. This is so two things. One, beautiful, because that's exactly what we know with our value for value model. And the other part is it's a total callback, ironically, to how the record business started in the 50s. Commercial top 40 radio. It started with people selling records out of the trunk of their car at gigs, anywhere they could do it.

1:18:05 It's an interesting throwback. It was not lost in the South because you had the Chitlin Circuit. Yes, there you go. Of a network of clubs. And of course, the clubs change, but the influencers don't. And if you were able to get a buzz, then you could start doing shows at these clubs. And this shows the entrepreneurial spirit of these talented individuals. See, everybody wants to paint them out to be idiots or thugs or whatever else. It's like, no, it's Jeezy was a, I mean, a legit millionaire before he even got. got into rap. Gucci Man was a scholarship student and a coder.

1:18:50 Yeah. Yeah. So this, if they had other routes, there would be stars in that. It's just like, this is the only thing you had. And it's, you know, this is when the CD CD-ROM came out, the rewritable CD-ROM first came out. So that changed everything because it's like, now you don't need somebody that actually prints tapes or prints albums. You know, you could buy a, I think it was like the one that used to print like sent 10 CDs at a time, like for like $500. If you had one of those and then you go buy a computer and able to record your music in a closet, I'm speaking from

1:19:36 personal experience. Hotep Jesus has the right idea about getting Bitcoin into this community. He's got the right idea. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's whenever you give us something, and I just one little small tangent. Whenever you give black people, quote unquote, with pips, anything, we turn it into something else. You got to think about it. Spinning yarn into gold, my brother. The beat machine was not made for what it was used for. The turntables was not made what it was used for. The sampler was not made what it was used for. It's like we take these tools and like, you know what?

1:20:17 We can flip it, bounce it, and create something totally different. Even the vocoder, same or auto-tune as we call it now. Yeah. Yeah, the auto-tune. Oh, the 808 itself was a defunct piece of equipment and they showed up in no serious shops around it. Yes, 20 years old or something. Like thing came out. Right. Yeah. But they showed up in pawn shops and were easily affordable, but that's why it became the weapon of choice for bedroom producers. Yep. Because it's something at the original, what it was originally meant for. It was, but it was, hey, this is cheap. Like, that's what you see in a great example was Hustle and Flow.

1:20:59 That's a perfect example of how hip-hop careers would start. Is a couple pieces of equipment, microphone, boom. You often go in. But we continue on with the story of the real Gucci Man and Young Jeezy part two. Around the same time in 2001, Jay Jenkins, who was known as Lil J, has just stepped into the Georgia scene and was gaining buzz as well. Much like Gucci Mane, he spent the last few years trying to build a label. Lil Jay was in deep in the streets selling weed and cocaine. He was said to have over a million cash before ever considering music. He had a ton of money and was always interested in music, but initially never wanted to rap.

1:21:39 After a few run-ins with the law and having a new baby, he wanted to focus more on his label and began building a studio where he could manage artists under. He would sign his first few artists and start the label Young Guns Entertainment. This was going good for a while, but eventually their main artist would catch a murder case and get locked up, leaving no real talent to lead the way. He had dropped a ton of money in his studio and into his artists, so he wasn't going to let it go to waste. He changed his label name to CTE and he decided to start rapping as the main artist. He dropped his first tape, Thugging Under the Influence in 2001, which featured Lil John as a producer and it immediately got a small fan base. Since Lil Jay had drug money to fund his tapes and new people in music, he would get all his music played at every strip club in Atlanta, which back then was a massive way to get your music heard.

1:22:24 He went around Atlanta getting his music played over the next couple months. He decided to change his name to Young Jeezy and continued to drop back-to-back nixtapes like Trapper Die with DJ Drama until solidifying himself in the Atlanta rap scene. He did this until 2004 when Def Jam signed him for a massive amount of money. With Gucci Man and Jeezy leading the way in Atlanta rap, it was only inevitable that a collab would come soon. Nice. Good story. I like this. I want to take this time to point out this is the reason why atonement is needed. I know people say, oh, here he goes. These young men had to resort to illegal activity to get the starter money up for what they really wanted to do.

1:23:09 It's a bunch of young men out here that have great ideas, but don't have the capital to get it off the ground. So allow me to say something about that. Yes, you're right. On the other hand, having come from, well, I'm certainly middle class, upper middle class, but having left home and school, etc., to build that starting capital yourself. Now, obviously, drugs, maybe not the best way. It's a faster way. The payoff can be much higher. The risk, you know, it's a risk-reward situation. But so, and I'm responding to this because you say atonement,

1:23:54 it's a very different thing for an entrepreneur to start and scrape those first few dollars together and build and build and build and build. And it's more than just the capital that you build that you can do what you really want to do with it. It's the process and the appreciation for hard work, making smart decisions. Whether the activity is legal or illegal doesn't matter. Right. So, I would say, just so we're clear from my standpoint, yeah, this is a crap way that there's no other, or that apparently no are no other avenues to do that. Yes, that's the key word right there. Apparently, apparently, I'm not saying that there should be handouts, is what I'm saying.

1:24:36 It's like just because someone has a great idea, atonement doesn't mean handout. I think we're we agree on that, right? What I'm saying is, if they had the capital to start a business, then they wouldn't have to start go here. Now, what I want to make you made a great point. That's why I run the bill. Apparently, so we're talking about people that are stuck in this mind trap of this is the only way to do it. This is what you've been told. This is the only way to do it. There you go. And this is what they say about getting it from the mud. You know, you have to get in there and get it from the ground up. And when you tell people where the only way you could, um, another quota, I'm gonna have to give you the quote.

1:25:18 I mean, this, you know, I'm gonna be honest. This show is for me today. I'm loving it, Moe. I'm loving it. Birthday show. No, this is a birthday. This is a birthday show to myself because this is a hip-hop show, not the hip-hop show, but this shares a lot of what makes up me. So, because I went through that, not the drug selling part, because I understood the bigger implication that it was a trap. And it's like, those odds are not in my favor to make it out flawlessly. And that's why these guys are celebrated. Because when you beat the system, no matter what the system is, these kids look at you like God.

1:25:57 Of course, of course. You're a hero. Sure. All right, right. So, and the reason why I'm saying about capital is, like he said, you to get the producers to pay beats and studio time. It wasn't like it wasn't now, where you had to actually, I mean, you couldn't, the equipment and quality of recording at home is nowhere near what it is now. The quality of music that you can get out. So, and with payola, which you're familiar with, from you being the industry. So, because I've read about it, not that I've received it. No, no, no, no.

1:26:34 No, what I'm saying is that is a real thing. Of course, it's a real thing. But just to be clear, the payola stuff is rarely, was rarely ever cash, maybe back in the 50s. It's always perks. It's if you're if the station is corrupt, then the station will get advertising buys or a so-called independent promoter will put on an entire show for the station in the station's name and will actually pay the artists and will only take a small cut. So the station actually makes money with zero investment. Now, these are all parts of the payola scheme. No, pay all is cash.

1:27:17 And in this industry over here, it was straight up cash. I'm not speaking of something I've heard. This is something I know, especially for those DJs that play like the late night window where they had a little bit more freedom what they could play. It was, I mean, I'm talking about the urban radio stations because, like, from like 12 to like five in the morning, no, I mean, you play what you really want to play. So, WBLS, Frankie Crocker. You could shake a hand and slide a couple hundred dollars and like get your stuff on the radio. And then the other payola, well, outside, when I say payo, I'm not just speaking about radio stations. They alluded to strip clubs.

1:28:00 Right. You can slide the DJ, you know, a couple hundred, five, six, seven thousand dollars, and he will, he will play your music in the club. And if the strippers dance to it, and this is why the relationship between the strip club and trap music is so strong. And this is why you've seen strippers be legitimate, um, uh, legitimate under trap music era, under under the trap music era, because they go hand in hand. Yeah, got it. That's your uh, your test market as well as your uh. launch pad. Not even test market. Yeah, it was more of the launched pad because it's. I mean, if the girls didn't dance to it, then you knew your track sucked.

1:28:44 But that's true. But then if you're in there making what they call a movie and that's the track that's playing, then you're like, oh, let me go find out who that was. And I'll go, you know, or you're in the parking lot, like, hey, that was my song. You know, you selling out the trunk. So I'm just, I just want to point that out that this is the hurdle. And I want to, I'll make it clear one time. We're talking about in the mind trap of this is my only way out. Yeah. That is the that is the real crime here. Yeah. Of tricking young people into believing that there's only one, there's only two ways, sports or this. Well, another quotable notorious BIG. Either you got a

1:29:29 slang rock or you got a wicked jump shot. Yeah. I mean, that's that's that's pretty much the mentality that is like sewn in the quote quote unquote urban community. So we can move on. And now we think we stopped at three, I believe. Yep. With Gucci Mane and Jeezy leading the way in Atlanta rap, it was only inevitable that a collab would come soon. In 2005, Gucci Mane and Jeezy would record two songs together. The first song was Black Teas, which was a response to Demfranchise Boys' hit song White Tea. And the second song was So Icy or Just Icy. So Icy would go crazy in the streets almost immediately and would then be featured as the main single on Trap House One.

1:30:14 The song was such a massive hit that even high schools across the country banned the iconic snowman tea that Jeezy wore in the video. But as time went on, rumors surfaced that Jeezy may have been upset with how things went. Although it's still not 100% clear why Jeezy was upset, we can assume it has something to do with the fact that he wanted the song to be on his upcoming album. He quickly took to the studio to release a diss track titled Stay Strapped, where at the end of the song he would put a $10,000 bounty on Gucci's So Icy chain. Jeezy would start to distance himself from Gucci and cause some strain on their friendship. Gucci would also get upset at the fact they could never perform their song live, which he felt they were missing out on a huge part of promotion.

1:30:55 Because once again, this is in the days where live shows made a huge impact on getting your music heard. But Jeezy didn't stop and he continued the beef. Over the coming weeks, the petty beef would turn into something much more. One summer evening, Gucci would go home with the stripper after a party. Just a month after the so icy hit dropped, five men stormed the home where Gucci was staying, armed with pistols, brass knuckles, and duct tape. They would get into a physical altercation, pistol whipping the stripper and hitting Gucci in the face. One of the men allegedly yelled, Shoot him. Wow. So this was the bounty for the chain. Damn. This is where the chain comes in. Tupac's murder was allegedly centered around a chain because somebody tried to snatch his death row chain.

1:31:40 Right. And that's the footage you see in the closed circuit footage that you see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because those death row chains, like I said, every crew had a chain. And it's kind of like capture the flag. If you wanted to, and you even see it to this day, it's capture the flag. And then now they go on social media and show it all. Ah, I got your chain. You know, and then you had to pay a ransom to get it back. And that's like one of the most disrespectful things. Like, because for somebody to take your chain off of you, they had to be close to you. Yeah. And what it represents is like, I can walk into anywhere.

1:32:19 I own you. That's what it means. I own you. Yeah. I got 20. Well, to walk around with that kind of jewelry on 20, 30, 50, you know what I'm saying, thousand dollars worth of jewelry in one chain. And like, you know, you don't have to tuck it because that's like the scale. I mean, that's for Friday. Remember Friday when Red forgot to tuck his chain and Debo took it from him? I mean, this, this is, these have real, real like implications. You see it in movies, but yeah, getting your chain snatched is like one of the most disrespectful things that can happen to you. So I don't want, I don't want to belay the point. I know we're probably running, you know, we've been very conversational. So honestly, Mo, I really love this.

1:32:59 I don't care how I got all Saturday and Sunday morning, brother. I can keep going. This is great because it's a side of music that, well, I was kind of doing other things at the time. But all of these things that you're talking about, I recall or I remember some bits and pieces of. And from an MTV guy perspective, you know, there was a very different view. of hip-hop, and to this day, I would say a very different view of hip-hop from the mainstream media perspective, which is probably the one I'm more familiar with.

1:33:40 Because it's number one single dead rapper, number one single dead. That's the only way you get attention, right? And then you cross over into ads, yeah, or you get a Pepsi ad of those big companies like latched on to you, but nobody really. And I'll say this, then we can jump right into four. This is pertinent because you're seeing dead rappers pop up now. Mo 3, King Vaughn, and a host of other names of rappers that are being gunned down right now. And some overchains still. So it's not like we're doing a history lesson. This is a

1:34:22 peek into side, a peek inside of what's really going on now. So, with that said, I guess we can go ahead and jump into four. Upon realizing his life was at risk, Gucci shot back. Some people say he reached for his gun, where other stories say he may have disarmed one of the men and took his. He shot the gun, killing one of the men as the others ran off. Three days would go by until someone found the body of the deceased man in the woods behind an elementary school. When the smoke cleared, authorities identified the man as Pookie Locke, one of Jeezy's prodigies under his CTE label. After nine days, Gucci Mane would turn himself in, claiming self-defense. He released a statement saying he's not a murderer, but he was scared for his life and he had to be a man about it.

1:35:02 The case would later be dismissed after his eyewitness confirmed that Gucci acted in self-defense when five men tried to rob him. Going forward, Jeezy would still deny any involvement with Devoni, despite Pookie Lock being directly tied to him in his CTE label. Gucci Man would go public saying he suffered from PTSD from this event and would shoot jabs about it in his raps years later. One of the most famous lines he stated was this: Go dig your partner, big up and he can't say shit. The two would continue this feud for over 15 years until November 19th, 2020, where they were put in the same room as each other. In 2020, during the world pandemic of COVID-19, record producers Timberland and Swiss Beats would start a webcast series titled Versus.

1:35:43 With rappers unable to perform, this was a great way for hip-hop fans to watch their favorite rappers go head-to-head, showcasing their hit songs in a battle-like competition. After Jeezy was invited to the show, he requested to go up against Gucci Mane, thinking it would bring good entertainment seeing the longtime feud go head-to-head. Oh, okay. Now the veil is lifted. Okay, I get it. I see what's going on. What was that quotable, Moe? I couldn't quite catch it. Which one? The one in oh, go dig, go dig your partner. I bet you can't say it. So he's talking about, and the dude said Pookie Locke, but it's Loke. It was whenever it's LOC, it's pronounced Loke.

1:36:22 But that was the guy. So Jeezy, allegedly, let me let me make sure I don't piss nobody off. Allegedly, the story is that he sent put a bounty on Gucci's chain, the ice cream chain. And these five guys who were close associates to Jeezy went to go snatch. Yeah, I mean, because if you get it, then that gives you automatic street credibility. Can you just translate this? Translate. Can you just because I can't hear it? I can't hear what's being said here. This go dig your partner up, and I bet he can't say it.

1:37:05 Okay, I got you. So basically, I killed him. And you're saying, if you want him to say something, you're going to go dig him up. And that's not very nice. That's not very gentlemanly. It's not. And the crazy thing, and this is why this versus now we're at the verses. These two men in Magic City, which is the club in Atlanta, the strip club in Atlanta, the world-famous strip club in Atlanta. What happened to Cheetah? No, no, no, no. It's Magic City. Magic City. Sorry. That's the Magic City. Right. Magic City is the place to be.

1:37:46 And I heard they got great wings. I got a good authority. That would be the only reason I go. It's for the wings. I mean, so, um, um, so this is the setup. And you got Jeezy on stage. You got Gucci on stage. People don't know what's going to happen. Um, it's crazy. I mean, this is what built. This is why 2 million people tuned in. Of course. To see, is it going to explode into a brawl or what? Now, was this a completely non-mainstream commercial event? Were there?

1:38:25 advertisers, sponsors, or was this completely organic? I know every urban or hip-hop-related content creator had multiple videos on it. Now, I don't know about commercial as far as I didn't, I mean, I don't watch very much commercial TV. I didn't see any like ads for it. But like I said, when verses hit, when verses say they're going to say a versus it's a big deal. Yeah. I think the lowest one I've seen maybe have like a couple hundred thousand people live. You know, that's pretty, that's a pretty significant. It's very significant. And then when you talk about hit, I think 2 million was the record. I think this was the record versus. And who organized this? Swiss Beats

1:39:10 and Timberland. Two of them super producers in hip-hop. And it's a genius idea. So, and then one of the other ones, the funny one was Baby Face and Teddy Riley. That was hilarious. So if you want to come back and check that. How old are those guys? They're my age now, aren't they? Right. They gotta be up there. Yeah. So I guess let's get into five and see what happens at this versus. After the show got closer, shots were already being fired, mostly from Gucci Zen. Days leading up to the show, Gucci would post memes on his Instagram about Pookilock, as well as in Sultan Jeezy's outfit that he wore for his upcoming album.

1:39:47 As the show went on, it would gain over 1.8 million viewers on Instagram alone. It started out slow, but things would inevitably heat up as the rappers played hit songs as well as some of their old disc records. By the end of the show, they would make history when they performed their hit song So Icy Together for the first time in 15 years after the song was performed the two would have a brief but wholesome exchange of words It led many viewers to believe this was the end of their long-lasting beef since the show Jeezy has spoken out saying he feels better hoping they could put this all behind them since then rumors have come out online about a possible collab album coming soon okay so promising

1:40:24 well at the beginning of the verses it was very uh tense because gucci man actually did the two diss tracks talking about jeezy's dead homie damn yeah i mean because here's the thing just i mean because i guess we we're we're at a point where we can start looking at who jeezy and uh gucci is so gucci jeezy was always the corporate minded person he really didn't want to be a rapper he wanted to be a ceo of a record company but he bet on himself it's like because artists kept flaking on him so he you know he became

1:41:03 gotten in front of the microphone and started recording music and he blew up there but he always had that corporate mentality and i think that's why record labels really embraced him that's why deaf jam gave him a huge deal puffy jay-z they all put their arm around him uh and he became a fixture in the music industry uh but he never had the popularity of a gucci man who was strict like trap trap and what i mean by that is he was actually from the trap and when he became famous he stayed in the trap so and that's why the young artists like uh

1:41:43 migos young thug all of these guys came up under gucci man so it was if we're talking music wise jeezy has the better music and probably had the biggest bigger uh had it was at the highest higher heights but we're talking about longevity is gucci man because of his organic beginnings and staying true to the streets and the trap so but now hopefully they do do a collab i doubt they do a collabo uh but that would be nice to see but it started out very tense uh to begin to begin that versus well i'm excited to see how this unfolds we're not even halfway yet we're just about right so speaking of collabos uh i think we got one of the

1:42:29 best collabos in well in podcasting uh and you want to remind people what the mofax and adam curry show is about yeah we'll do that with this uh beautiful clip from malcolm x first the white man and the black man have to be able to sit down at the same table the white man has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of that negro and the so-called negro has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of the white man then they can bring the issues that are under the rug out on top of the table and take an intelligent approach to get the problem solved that's the only way that they'll ever do it and today's episode of mofax with adam curry is is more an educational

1:43:09 process than a comparative process uh which is i think of paramount importance and thank you for humanizing as we've said and as you mentioned many times uh i'm very excited excited about the rest of this show. And you probably realize that this kind of program, its length, the topics, the language, the way Mo and I talk, which is just like two American men who want to understand stuff and learn from each other, not really compatible with Cancel Culture, Black Lives Matter Inc., or with commercials or any corporate money, which is why we've chosen for the successful format known as Value for Value. It's successful because the producers of the podcast are the ones who keep it running. You get value out of it.

1:43:52 All we ask is for you to return that value. It can be in a number of ways. We like to say time, talent, or treasure. In this case, we have a list of producers, our executive producers and associate executive producers, and other producers who put this together for us and have stuck with us regardless of time schedule and how we publish. But I think it's appreciated how much work goes into this, how much time, effort, thoughtfulness, and then for us to be able to discuss the way we do and keep it going, it's really a testament to these producers for helping us. So, with that said, let's start off with thanking our executive producer for episode number 55. And we start with James Irvine, who sent us $250.99.

1:44:36 And he has a note. He says, Love this show. There's a white guy. This gives me a wonderful insight into the true meaning of being black. It goes so much deeper than I ever knew or even ever had a clue about. Thank you, Mo, and thank you, Adam, for cluing me in. In the morning, he says, Jim Irvine, Knight of the RVNA to the MF. All right, beautiful. Another familiar name here with $230.33, a little magic sauce dipped on top from Sir David Fugazzotto and Adam. He says, the education continues. Thanks for doing the work. I use the information you bring up almost daily.

1:45:14 Most of my American employees are black, and we've had a lot of great enlightening conversations. Some of the more interesting chats have been around the difference in skin tone. And I would have been lost if not for the education I've had from the show. Are you familiar with the term high yellow for light-skinned blacks, Mo? Yes. So high yellow, and we may talk about this one day, but I'll be quick with this. So high yellow is a little different than biracial. And what I mean by that is you'll see, I'm trying to think of somebody, you could refer to it as high yellow or red bone.

1:45:55 It's not that light skin that you get from like a biracial relationship or child creator through biracial means. It's more of a you have this Halle Berry. She would be considered by a high yellow. And it's pronounced yellow. I mean, I don't know why, I mean, from in the South, I don't know why, but it's high yellow. So that's what high yellow means to me. Well, David said, he said, I did here, he said, many of them are very active in the Masons. Is that true? The high yellow? Yeah, because when, well, you got to go back to what we talked about with the brown paper bag test

1:46:38 colorism and those things. So that's very familial as well. Well, he wants to know if that'll be a topic in the future. Well, it sounds like we will touch on that for sure. And he continues: Anyways, keep up the fantastically useful and informative conversations. It's been a while since I've donated. So could I get a D-dead beating and a refreshing of Mo Karma? Yes, you can, my friend. Congratulations. You're no longer a deadbeat. And I would like to say let the karma flow. All right. Because it just came to my mind that my wife and two of my children are high yellow.

1:47:22 So, I mean, like I said, that's why I don't get into the colorism thing because it hits home. Sure. Sure. Just be careful of the number 33 around the house. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Thanks, Dave. Definitely a good question. $110.88 from David J. Langford. He says, I live in Wyoming and love your podcast. And we love you, David. Thank you. And you are also an executive producer of episode number 55. Joseph Wentzell, $100. So my informant Mo mentions pips as a thing while I'm at the table eating carrot cake and wondering just how many things are under the rug after the cast.

1:48:02 I tune into episode eight of HBO's Perry Mason and hear the main lesbian character call her lover a pip. I don't know how that relates. Yeah, neither. so when we say pips, it means in quotation, air quotes. Can't wait until all the citizens of the United States of America are at the table again. So happy Officer Drake turned in his badge and gun in this episode, especially considering how much more money and satisfaction the character will get in the occupation of private investigator, i.e., podcaster and pips. So Bo Jiden is our president-elect. Saturdays in our future. Mo and Adam, please keep my keel even as best y'all can. Get to the table and you will get served, especially at Thanksgiving. Very poetic, Joseph.

1:48:46 And all I can say is we'll see. I think January 20th, I'll know if Blo Jiden is our president or not. Donald Rolf. They're still counting. That's all I'm going to say. There's still more than just that going on. Donald Rolf, also $100 to the MoFax Show. Thank you. Hello, Mo and Adam. Love your show and enlightenment. I'm a no agenda night and learn value for value from Adam. I'm making attempts to catch up on episodes and value in return. Keep up the great work, Sir Afic. Thank you. Very much appreciated. Yes, archive.mofacts.com gives you a beautiful overview. Oh, yeah, I wanted to mention we are podcasting

1:49:25 2.0 compliant with this show, which means you need to get a new podcast app or at least try one out until yours gets up to speed. NewpodcastApps.com. We now have transcripts inside of the podcast apps themselves. So if you're thinking, hey, where did Adam and Mo talk about something? I'll give you an example. Go to podfriend.com, use that. You can even use it on the website or just as a web app. And you can search the transcript of what we said inside each episode to find exactly what you were looking for if you want to review something. It's pretty cool. Now we slip into our associate executive producers, $50 up to $100.

1:50:06 John Taylor, double nickels and the dime, $55.10 with the BBG Groot. We say, indeed, buy blacks guns. Thank you. That's a good start. GBG. Oh, it's Give Blacks Guns. Yeah, but he's doing a BBG. I don't know why. How did that get messed up? I don't know. It's this weird Mandela effect where some people are. You're right. It is a Mandela. I think it's because... Because he's not the only one that said that before. I know what it is. It's because of Build Back Better is the three B's. I think people are getting confused. But yes, it should be GBG, which is give blacks guns. Well, it depends on what side of the universe you're on. So maybe we're just on a different side than John. There you go. Maybe, maybe not.

1:50:48 Greetings and salutations, says Aaron Keeney. I'm a Tonomo convert, which means Aaron came to us via Tom Woods' no agenda to MoFax. A note about Cynthia McKinney. Yes, we talked about her. I'm not saying there was not fraud in her 2002 primary loss. I was 11, so I was not much in the know, but we lived in her district. At the time, I can attest that there really was considerable Republican crossover. As I remember, she ran unopposed for a long time, and that year finally had a challenger in the primary. Yes, that's true. My parents and all of their Republican friends voted in the Democratic primary for her challenger. In Georgia, you don't register with a specific party, so when you walk up to the vote in the primary, it's easy to just ask for the Democrat ballot instead of the Republican ballot or vice versa.

1:51:34 Perhaps the Democratic Party put up a challenge because of her indiscretions. At the very least, having a challenger that Republicans could vote for provided cover for any fraud that may have happened. Also, I hope your theory that Stacey Abrams is going to going down with the ship is correct. I know Democrat establishment, Schumer, et cetera, wanted her to run for the Johnny Isaacson Senate seat and were miffed that she had bigger aspirations. So there's certainly motive there. Love y'all thinking of you. Stay thinking, says Aaron. Yeah. You can already see Mo and I were texting yesterday. The setup or the alley is there for the OOP to have her holding the bag.

1:52:15 Whoops. How about that, lingo? This looks like it's happening. They're putting her in front and center just in the middle. That's the headline I've seen everywhere, Stacy, under investigation. And we'll talk about that in a when she's in jail. In the very, very near future, I'll say that. When she's in jail, we'll talk about her. William Smock, $55. Have you watched the third season of Fargo? No, I haven't. You have seen it? Is it good? Yes, yes. He says here, it's the fight between Jews, Italians, and blacks in Kansas City, Missouri to not be at the bottom. Thanks for your hard work. Well, now I got to watch it. That's cool. That is the best representation of the bottom.

1:53:00 William, that was a great, great point out. Well, please check that out if you can. Fargo. Well, we got to get a lot of stuff. Good work, William. Tyreek Sharif, $50. No note. We thank you for that, Tariq. James Chapco says, thank you for your courage. $50. Curtis, there we go. Happy birthday, Mo. $50. There you go. Although you should have given $40, not $50. And with that, we wrap up our executive producers and associate executive producers donations for episode number 55 of Mo Facts with Adam Curry. We do have a few more people to thank. We'll do that a little bit later on in the program. But again, it's value for value.

1:53:41 Whatever you get out of this, just turn it into some numbers. We've seen some interesting numbers as well today. I like 250.99, 230.33, 110.88. These are all, these have meanings, and I think they're powerful, actually. Just whatever it is. It could be $1, could be $5. Value is up to you, not to us. And please go to mofax.com and click on the donate button, or you can go directly to the donation page at mofundme.com, M-O-E-F-U-N-D-M-E.com. And thank you all for your courage. All right. So we're coming out of the donation segment and straight into a throwback block.

1:54:20 So this is from the show, The Shooters, Number 48. And this is with White Mike. So I want to, we don't have to linger on a long conversation in between each clip, but I want to play these clips to give context for the aforementioned trap music. And then it'll explain a little better the second half of the show. Now, in this time, I learned a lot of beautiful things about a lot of beautiful people. I learned a lot of ugly things about myself. And I learned a lot of dark things about the nation in which we live. But I also learned that I, being white Mike, specifically the white part, have a lot of power. White Mike has a question today, and that's this.

1:55:02 How come when you turn on the radio in Jacksonville or New Orleans or Chicago or Little Rock, the only people on the radio that talk about how great it is to kill each other are black? How come that exists? 15 stations on a dial, go up, go down. The only people on the radio bragging about getting automatic weapons, gunning each other down are black. This right here is a song. My pastoral vocabulary won't let me read the title, but I will read this. Catch a young black male not paying attention at the red light with your AK-47. Let me see you shoot it. You're a killer, you're a killer, you're a killer. You're a killer, black male. Let me see you prove it.

1:55:45 Why does this exist? Oh, yeah, this is a great series of clips. I've often used this as an example with people, so I won't spoil it. Yeah, so I wanted to play this just to show that how it's normalized. The acceptance of the behavior that went on between Jeezy and Gucci Man. And not only that, that's why I chose the person that did the background of their beef as a, I would assume, to be a suburban white kid, a white young man. It's totally accepted. And we can get to the next clip, but I just want to point out to people, all the terms that come out of trap rap and bleed over into everyday

1:56:28 society like Twerk and Draco and Chopper, Purple, Lean. I mean, these things are just... And you really see it show up in advertisements to show like some kind of credibility. So I just want to say that I guess we can get into the second white Mike clip. I'll take it even further because a lot of time racism exists in what we don't know and what we don't see. Where are the white killers on the radio? Where are the white AK-47 shooters? Where are the white drug dealers? Where are the white people on the radio that brag about what it's like to murder witnesses before trial?

1:57:10 The truth is they don't exist. And the question is, why? Why don't they exist? Do white people not kill people? Do white people not use AK-47s to shoot each other? I mean, we know, do white people not do drugs? Do they not deal drugs? Of course they do. But why is it that it doesn't make it to our mainstream radio? Why is it that we don't hear it hundreds of times a day in hundreds of cities across the nation, thousands of plays that say the idea that a black guy would kill another black guy is something to be celebrated, something to be romanticized? While that was playing, since I've already heard this, it's a throwback to episode 48. The only white song that comes to mind about a white guy killing a white guy is Johnny Cash.

1:57:53 That's how long I killed a man in Reno just to watch him die. OG, Johnny Kay. OG, man. Very OG. I got to think about it if there's any more. But yeah, it's so weird. And it's just totally accepted. And like I said, I just want to lay this out just so people can really think about in hindsight what we discuss as a whole culture and why is it accepted. And I'm guilty of it too because I enjoy rap music. But when does it, how does it build the cage? that is the mind trap. So just think about that. And I guess we can get into the third one. And maybe that, maybe it's because there's no white audience for it.

1:58:37 Or maybe it's because it's not really marketable. Maybe because it's not, can't get sponsors. I don't know why it is. Or maybe it's because it's just not the white man's role. Or maybe when white people get up and talk about being drug dealers and AK-47 killers, maybe it's even sicker than that. Maybe when white people do it, they're accused of acting black. The truth is in America, black murder is normal. Black murder is normal. The idea that a black man or a black woman would be involved in a homicide, either as a perpetrator or a victim, is so common, so broadly accepted that it basically goes unnoticed. The truth of the matter is black families are affected by homicide at rates of 10 times their white counterparts. There will be more death in the form of homicide involving black people this year than any other form of violence that dominates our national conversation.

1:59:18 More than school shootings, mall shootings, mass shootings, workplace shootings, lovers twist, lover's trish that turned violent and bloody. Even more than in war and in terrorism, no one will lose their life at greater numbers than black Americans involved in violence. You know, black murder in our country is not only common, it's not only frequent, but it's an idea that we celebrate. It's an idea that we say is okay. We actually make heroes out of the notion, heroes out of people that trivialize and romanticize it. Now, every time I show this information, people always say, well, if there's number three cause of death for white males, what is the number one cause of death? And without fail, year after year, it's called unintentional injuries, accidents, falling off a four-wheeler, crashing a go-kart or

1:59:58 bungee jumping without paying attention to knots and things like that. So basically, the American story is white kids are dying because they're clumsy and black kids are dying because they're gunned down. So to put this in perspective, could you imagine hearing Justin Bieber guns down one of the Jonas brothers? Progress. But no, I can't. No, I'm just saying, that's how either accepted and warped the trap mind is compared to the mainstream media music. Do you know, let me just relate something. I know we didn't want to talk too much in between these clips, but comes to mind

2:00:43 Ted Demi. Ted Demi is the guy who really started Yo M TV Raps with Ed Lover, Dr. Dre, different Dr. Dre. Ted, because I watched this up close and I was fascinated by it. And I always got the feeling that, and Ted is no longer with us, sadly. I wish he was because, man, the guy did so much for the music. But to me, it always felt a little bit like, let me help these black people get their success. And it sounds kind of weird because I know it came from a really good place and he really wanted to expose the music. But the time that, and this is why I said it much earlier in the show, yeah, we've got to get the urban CNN.

2:01:26 People have got to hear this. We got to get that out there. So it was really encouraged. It was encouraging discussing exactly what was happening on the streets. And of course, once that's encouraged, once that becomes a hit, then comes the money. Then it's, hey, we want that. You ain't getting, you're not putting that record out. None of that happy sunshiney stuff. We want this. So it was the industry from early on before trap, really. And what's the weird thing about it? That's why I said that my taste was different. And I looked at the word trap and the whole culture differently because as you said, I grew up under, it was one thing to tell the story and not sugarcoat it and be descriptive.

2:02:10 And so it has the appropriate amount of impact. What we saw with trap music was the quality go down, the intelligence go down, the being a caricature of basically hood culture. Not even, no, no, not even hood culture. It was going back to the days of blackface. Right. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Because it's, they can't even pronounce words correctly and that kind of it's encouraged. I'm going to say this. And this is not, we can get straight into the next clip.

2:02:52 But one of the things I noticed about Charlemagne, he says scrape, scream. screet, which is a normal occurrence in the South. Because, like I said, and we get roasted for it, but nobody says anything to people from the islands that says tree for three and that kind of thing. So, but what I'm saying is to be a trained broadcaster, and you can speak to this more than I can. They would normally work, excuse me, would normally work that out of your speech to say straight, street.

2:03:31 But he still says straight and street, which I think he holds on to as a dog whistle to be real. It's code switching, of course. Well, it's not even code switching because he doesn't, no matter how he's, when he says it, he always says straight and screet. Right, but I'm saying, does he say that on the radio or does he say that in private too? That's my question. He says it. I mean, if he says it on the radio, I don't think he, and that would be even weirder. Well, that's what it is. If you're performing in blackface, then that's what you do. You do that on the radio, maybe not privately.

2:04:08 That's, I don't know the answer if he's doing it or not. And I saw this crop up in the music of the mispronunciation of words on purpose, I would say. And I'll say this one last thing. Plaz, Jamie Foxx called out Plaz for this, which Plaz is a popular rapper from that era of the trap when the trap music first cropped up. And he thought he was going to meet, and he has a real heavy Southern accent when he's in acting. So when Jamie Foxx said when he went to go meet him, he expected him to speak the same way.

2:04:48 He was like, hi, how are you doing? It's like, so it's different. I have a Southern accent and I don't want to get rid of it because that's just who I am. And I also speak somewhat different in conversation because I want, for clarity purposes, I don't want people to not understand what I'm saying, but I don't go out of my way to change the way I speak. So I'm just saying that I noticed that there's this thing of dumbing down that came in with trap music. And I'll end on that point. Now, we don't have Mammy Two Shoes today.

2:05:23 You can't get away with it. Nobody would put out there. But we do have black people that get on the radio every day in white-owned companies, white-owned stations with white-owned sponsors that play the role of hypersexualized, hyper-criminalized male. I asked these advertisers, they say, I've got hundreds of songs a day that celebrate killing animals. Will you put them on your station? They said, no. I've got hundreds of songs a day that talk about assaulting women and abusing kids. Would you put them on your station? They said, no. I said, I got hundreds of songs a day that talk about murdering blacks. Would you put them on your stations? They said, well, that depends. Depends on what? Who it's done by and who it's branded for. Because if we can get black folks to sing about it, we can brand it for our youngest black audiences. I think there's money to be made. I think there's American appetites to see these people that way.

2:06:07 Yeah, that's the money clip right there. So I'm going to make one point, just one small point. We saw this not for money's sake, but for voter's sake with Booty to the Pole. Yes. So I'll just leave that. If you haven't seen it, go look or go listen to our, I think it was our last show, but go, or maybe it was 53, I believe. But go look at Booty to the Pole. They used that mentality or try to communicate cake to black men on that level of depravity, which if you're a sex worker, that's, I mean, more power to you. I don't knock sex workers. Episode 52. Yeah, so it's 52. So was that podcast 2.0 at work there, sir?

2:06:47 No, it was. No, that's Adam Curry, who just has a has a photographic memory of clips. Okay. But it's like 2.0. It's coming. Yeah, no, it's coming. It's coming. But you could use it for that function when it's up and running. So I guess we'll just go ahead and wrap up with White Mike. I said, how can you say that? They said, well, look, it's what these artists know. It's what they, black people, create. It's a matter of fact, our surveys say it's what they want to hear, which speaks of a sickness. How do we live in a society where somebody says, you know what, I'm inspired to write a song that celebrates murdering another person. And then a person says, I'd like to put that on my station. Another person said, I'd like to pay for it. And then there's people out here in the audience that go, I'd love to hear it as long as it's black guys, because even white people buy rap music, buy this type of stuff, because we know that when we want to hear about killing each other, we know who to turn to for that type of inspiration.

2:07:36 We call it our music. We say we own it. White people buy more rap than black people. Yeah, but we're very careful to turn it down at the stoplight when other black people are there. Why? Because we know we're just pretending for them. It's more authentic and real. I always ask the companies, what about your name? What about your brand? What about your value? And the largest radio company in the world said this. It's okay. that we only have drug dealers on our black youth stations. We only have murders on our black youth stations. We support black charities. We give out water at the Martin Luther King Parade. I think we've got it covered. We bought them off. And it is really black radio, isn't it? Yes. I don't say it's all radio, to be honest, but it's really radio. It's not music television. It's not, it's radio. Radio is so important.

2:08:20 And the reason I say that is free. Yes. And the reason I say this is because if there's one industry that I personally have helped kill and bring down, it is the radio industry because of podcasting. And so for them to hold on to anything that works, they will promote the shit out of it for as long as they can to keep that going as long as they can because the culture is radio listening and they're just tuning into their audience. That's sadly, that's also capitalism. And to go back to what I was speaking about about riding was before you could afford a CD deck in your car and before odd cards and blues through connections. Yeah, the radio, sure. You had the radio. And the radio is really a monopoly because they play the same seven songs on all the stations.

2:09:05 I mean, over every hour on hour. Yes. So, and I want to make one last point when he said about white rappers. We saw Post Malone came out of the trap. Right. But when he made it to a top 40 star, his musical content changed. Now it's about maybe clubbing, love, falling in love, that kind of thing. He doesn't rap about Draco's and choppers and all the things that he, when he made his way up through the trap. So they don't, that was, that is not accepted. That is not accepted to have even Eminem the same thing. Right. He was on, he was rapping about like Monchausen syndrome and his hate for his mother.

2:09:50 So that you don't really have an industry-push white artist that are rapping about killing people and I mean, well, killing in the way that black artists are. So I say all this, I set all that up to say to point out the special guest that showed up to the Versus to stop by to deliver a special message. Guys, real quick, thanks for coming to Versus. We got a special caller for you guys right now. Come on on. Hi, this is Stacey Abrams. What is that going on, Stacey? What's that miss? How you doing?

2:10:26 I'm good. Thank you guys for letting me crash before what I know is the battle to end all battles to end all versus so thank you for giving me some street cred with my nieces and nephews that's right can you wipe my record clean look that's a job that the governor could do but you know we'll have to think about that later but for right now we can at least make sure that everyone shows up to vote so we have two senators to make sure we have covet response and we've got stimulus money coming back to georgia yeah right that's right we got you baby let's get it yeah you know we're gonna stand up for you thank you well i just wanted to say thank

2:11:01 you to both of you especially for the work you've done to encourage folks who are coming back returning citizens to they have the right to vote i've got a younger brother who's been in and out of the system and i know redemption is real and i know that the voices that these men and women can bring to our state matter and so thank you for the work you've done no question love stacy oh boy well that's that ruins the event when i saw that yeah it said gotta be a show yeah you knew what was going on right now do you think stacy talks like that all the time

2:11:40 maybe i wonder maybe i'm not sure i can't i can't she could not be i mean i'm more street than she is i mean she's counsel on foreign relations this is crazy oh no she's the that's the that's the the real that's the real thing call calling in just to say good work son way to go boys keep keep that keep them keep them keys moving like no but that when i saw that i was like and then gucci man asked hey can you get my record clean yeah because i don't think he was in on it uh he wasn't read into what was going on no because and but i want to point out another thing

2:12:22 notice how they refer to her gucci man says miss stacy as more like a formal thing jeezy says hey stacy right that's a little too familiar for me huh good catch these are the kind of things i'm like oh okay i see where this is going and it was jeezy that was the one that was invited to be at versus and then he picked gucci man to be his co-star. Right. But when I saw that, I was an all-captive audience, 2 million people. Beautiful. She comes right in. Don't forget to vote now. I don't know about your record. I don't know about cleaning that up, but go vote. Yeah, go vote. No, maybe we'll see.

2:13:07 Another time. Amazing. So, and so this thing, I was like, okay, this thing was so widespread that it even showed up on the I forget her name. Lady on Sirius Radio. Oh, Karen Hunter. Karen Hunter. It shows up. She covered it on her show, Gucci Man and Jeezy. Listen, and it was weird seeing you in the verses with Jeezy and Gucci Main the other night.

2:13:43 I just want to just Dr. Carr in the is that Stacey Abrams popping into it to a strip club? Popping. She popped. What does that say about our culture that could be a sitting governor, could be a sitting president, could pop into a Gucci Main versus Jeezy? Very tense. It's one of the most tense versus what brought you to the table. The only thing that would bring me to the table would be the young people. That's Dr. Carr, the young people. That's only where they, the young voters. Let me say it for him.

2:14:25 That's their only concern. How can we manipulate these voters to make it seem like we're there for them? Yeah. And now I'm going to go out on the limb here. This is what I do. T.I. is done. You know, the Democratic Party was trying to use him. Right. But he has so much stuff going on and he had made so many missteps that they need a new trap representative for the Democratic Party. Insteps Jeezy. He's the new representative. And that's why they were grooming him. You remember the picture with him and Joe Biden when Joe Biden is handing the shoulder?

2:15:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the response to that? Did people say, what the hell? Or was that? Oh, of course they said, what the hell? But it wasn't amplified, though. As if when Lil Wayne went to go talk to Trump because he's talked to a Democrat, that's completely acceptable. Even though, you know, okay, I won't spoil it, but yeah. So you have this, you have Jeezy, and I feel like he's now going by, I think it's Jay Jenkins, Jay GZ Jenkins. He's going to his, he's going to his Todd Smith phase. The same thing El Couje went through.

2:15:50 So when you start getting called by your government name, that's your distancing yourself from your celebrity or how you came into the game. So yeah, that's what they're all about is the votes. And that's why it irked me so much. So much for so much for this. So organic spur of the moment thing seems pretty premeditated to some degree. Very, very premeditated. So now we have post GZ post the verses, and he goes on. I think it's Hot 97. That's with Ebro and Rosenberg, the guy that just is,

2:16:33 it irks me. So he's talking to them about the verses. I want to ask you about something that made me feel really good a few weeks ago. Can you tell us about my favorite picture of the last month or two was you in conversation with Joe Biden? Can you tell us about your conversations with Joe Biden and then how you and your family took in the election as well? The conversation with Joe Biden was, you know, I was asking him questions because I wanted to see if he really understood his position. He was honest. But I did, you know, I kind of really appreciate the fact that Kamala Harris is, you know, almost like his work wife because I feel like close enough to the culture to actually understand.

2:17:22 And the thing about it is everybody like, how can you support them, the drug laws and digital and what they did to people? And I'm just like, yo, man. Yeah, I'm not saying it's the end-all be-all. And I never said that. I'm more. And I'm going to ask you a question now, Paul. I'm more. You mean Peter? You get him? See, you worked at Def Jam too long. That's right. Tommy Rosenbergs. Rosenberg. Yeah. But I'm too many Rosenbergs. Yep. I'm more happy to see my coaches see that every little bit counted and that we made a difference together. Like we got out here and got people to vote. And Georgia changed to blue.

2:18:04 And I was just happy to see because it was so many people. I was like, yo, we got to vote. We got to vote. It's like, my vote don't count. Why would I waste my time? And just to see that, you know, it made me feel good. And then back to the Joe Biden thing. I was really just asking real questions. And I wanted my people to know, like, sometimes you really just got to be at the table. Oh, man. Okay. Meme after meme in this one. First, the Rosenbergs. Rosenbergs. All right. Nice Semitic, anti-Semitic reference. And who posed the question? It was Rosenberg. Oh, it was. Yes, it was Rosenberg, correct. Yeah. Then he talked about his coaches.

2:18:45 So that was interesting. So, who are said coaches? He wanted to show the coaches what he could do. No, he said the culture. I thought he said coaches. Oh, the coaches. No, he said the culture. No, then I speaks for the culture now. Oh, yes. Well, of course he does. He and Stacey represent the culture and Kamala, Joe's work wife. Oh, man. Yeah, he really had. And then he said, I mean, that's not acceptable what he said. No one buys that crap. Not at all. And the other thing is, he says that he had a lot of questions for Joe and to see if Joe cared.

2:19:25 And he kind of poo-pooed this and he didn't say crime bill. And you know, those crime bills, you know, blocking up black men, and it said black men. You know, nothing like that. But I had a real question for Joe. Like, am I black if I vote for you? Yeah, he went up there. He asked him that. He went up there, showed us him that. Yeah, he showed his culture card and said, this is who I am. You know me. I represent the culture. Just check you out, man. So it was kind of an approval. And then the last talking point was we need to be at the table. Table, yeah. Oh, that was good. The table. So that leads me into the Bob Woodson clip that you snagged and shared with me on these leaders. First of all, you cannot generalize about the black community anymore, any other people. We're not monolithic.

2:20:07 We have differences in education, difference in income. And when it's convenient, we generalize the black community and we use the demographics of those who are living in the most troubling situations. We use the demographics of incarceration, of low-income housing. We use that demographic information to make a case that all blacks are suffering. And then when the money arrives, it goes not to the people suffering the problem, but those who are providing service. For instance, in the last 50 years, the government has spent $22 trillion on programs to aid the poor.

2:20:51 70 cents of all those dollars go not to the poor, but those who serve poor people. They ask not which problems are solvable, which ones are fundable. Then you have black elected officials, many of them were veterans of the civil rights movement, who then came into political office. They were the ones who were dispensing those funds. And listen to this: two out of ten whites who with college degrees work for government, six out of ten blacks with college education works for government, which means that a vast amount of money that has been spent on the poor that has produced and reinforced dependency have been administered by a lot of middle-class blacks.

2:21:36 Yeah, that's your systemic racism right there. And can you point out something? Speaking on synchronicity, look at the title of that clip. Yeah. Atlanta leaders, abusive demographics hidden by Atlanta leaders. Holy crap. I wanted to identify something that I'm sure is just from my perspective. The term culture, I'm seeing it pop up in advertising. Meant as the cult. I mean, I know. I know. Like, oh, hello. I'm just seeing it. But I've noticed it the past, I don't know, past month or so, I've just seen this term culture pop up in advertising.

2:22:18 Yeah, do it for the culture. Stuff like that. That's a quotable. That's a hip-hop quotable from Jay-Z. I did it for the culture. So, I mean, like I said, these things, when these quotables take, take generations. So we have so that's. where Jeezy has fallen into. He's fallen into that group, just by perspective of he's going to step. They tried to use T.I. for this. And like I said, T.I. has so many other things going on that ruined, it kind of ruined his chances of being that hip-hop political leader.

2:22:59 So now I think they're grooming Jeezy. And excuse me, Jay Jenkins. Let me get it first and he wants to refer to you. Yeah. And he's married to the Asian lady from the View, which I think was a power move. Wait a minute. The Asian lady from the View, but the real, the real, the real, the real. A power couple. Yeah, so they're trying to make a political power couple, I believe. So just keep out. So now he's, I got a foul on you, Jeezy. So I mean, so I saw, and then just icing on the cake, he came out with a diss song right after this, dissing Lil Wayne and 50 Cents.

2:23:43 Oh, but Trump guys. Yeah. Gee, I wonder. I wonder why you'd want to diss them. So how sick is this? How sick is that? I didn't realize that. That's just nuts. Yeah. None of this is by happenstance. No, no, no. It's not. And now you understand why I laid out the trap and the trap. It wasn't about the verses. It's about the two trajectories that these stars, these celebrities are on. So now that's where Jeezy is headed, in my opinion. And now this is Gucci Man and his, this is a conversation he had with Charlemagne about his transformation.

2:24:26 Yeah, I was telling you, man, when I read your story, it's like the evolution of Malcolm X in a lot of ways. And you did it all, but you ain't Muslim. I want to out, well, you know, I can't say I'm as disciplined as Malcolm X, but I do, I read that book. That was one of my favorite autobiographies. And it definitely inspired me because I read it when I was in prison. And I damn from when he was saying like he couldn't really read good, he opened up the dictionary to A and just started reading it. And all the stuff he was going through in prison and, you know, the dude he had in there who like giving him game. A lot of things he went through, I felt like, you know, I shared some of those experiences. What was that spark in prison that made you start picking up just books and reading and stuff? I think it started with like fear, anxiety, paranoia from like,

2:25:11 you know, how much time I'm finna get. So all the running, the reading, all that was kind of like, I was trying to find some solace in there. You know, that show was a lot of pressure on me. So I was like, I run up and down the steps. I read a book. I was trying to do anything to get my mind off of, you know, feeling like I know the future because the future seemed like it was going to be bad. You know. So I just kind of like focus on what I could do now. It'll kind of give me a little peace, make me feel better. I like that. And I used to feel like I had a set of rules I had to live by. If you do this to me, I do this to you. If you say this to me, I do this to you. So as always, I'm justified. You snitch on me, I'm supposed to hurt you. You steal something from me. I'm supposed to come to your house and scrape it. You hit me, I'm supposed to hit you back, you know. And then it get to the point where you start to be like, well, shit, I'm already into it with you. I might well go on offense.

2:25:57 Why am I going to wait on you to hit me for it? So it's just, it's just a terrible place to be. A lot of that is straight rules, though. Yeah, don't say this thing. I had a set of rules that I followed to the T. But I made myself follow these rules. Ain't nobody said, hey, this is what you got to do. These what I felt right. This is how this is the person I want to be. This is what I want. I want to be up to this standard. I'm going to start at the end and work my way back. When he went to jail for the last time, he made a total transformation. Physically, I mean, when he went in, I think he was saying he was like 85 pounds overweight, addicted to lean. Hello? Yes. I know you said. No, no. He was addicted. I'm listening. Yeah, he was addicted to lean and

2:26:41 unhealthy mentally. And he changed himself. And he blamed nobody for it. He was like, I was like this. I live these rules. And the rules he laid out, the street rules, is that mind trap. And he explained, I felt if you did this to me, I need to do this to you. Right. He said, proactive about it, you know, preemptive strikes. So, but when he went in, he transferred, did this transformation similar to what Malcolm X did. And I'm not saying he's the next Malcolm X, not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you look at these two men

2:27:23 and the path they're taking. One is saying, you know, going through the politics, which Jesus, that's why I laid out the point. He's always been corporate-minded, being part of the structure. the apparatus. And you have this guy, Gucci Man, who was independent, this kind of thing. And then he goes in and he does his complete 180 to the point where he comes out in shape on top of his business. I mean, complete, utter change. And it was, he changed himself. And if I had to choose a path for so-called black men, it's change yourself.

2:28:05 I'm going with the Gucci message of don't wait for somebody to change you. Change yourself. Be reflective on what things that don't work for you. And that's why, that's why I'm just, I wanted to lay that out. So you're probably wondering why somebody like Stacey Abrams and Dr. Carr and Karen Hunter and all these people are want the influence of these celebrities. Well, not only they're not celebrities, they're street celebrities. I have the answer for you. Okay. You want to say something before we ask any questions before we go? I know I said a lot.

2:28:48 Well, I mean, why that was kind of obvious. They want to, I mean, what I heard Stacey saying was he didn't encourage you to vote. So you'd think that, but I have a feeling it's bigger, maybe deeper. It is deeper. 29. I knew that the great lack of most of the big-named Negro leaders was their lack of any true rapport with the ghetto Negroes. How could they have rapport when they spend most of their time integrating with white people? I knew that the ghetto people knew that I never left the ghetto in spirit, and I never left it physically any more than I had to.

2:29:28 I had a ghetto instinct. For instance, I could feel if tension was beyond normal in the ghetto audience, and I could speak and understand the ghetto's language. There was an example of this that always flew into my mind every time I heard some of the big-name Negro leaders declaring they spoke for the ghetto black people. After a Harlem street rally, one of these downtown leaders and I ghetto hustler is forever frustrated, restless, and anxious for some action. Talk over the ABC, CBS, or NBC microphones at Harvard or at Tuskegee. I could talk with the so-called middle-class Negro and with the ghetto blacks, whom all the other leaders just talked about.

2:30:04 And because I had been a hustler, I knew better than all whites knew and better than nearly all the black leaders knew that actually the most dangerous black man in America was the ghetto hustler. Why do I say this? The hustler out there in the ghetto jungles has less respect for the white power structure than any other Negro in North America. The ghetto hustler is internally restrained by nothing. He has no religion, no concept of morality, no civic responsibility, no fear, nothing. So this is why they're clamoring for the support of street celebrities. Right. Because if they ever can change their mind like Malcolm X did,

2:30:48 you got to remember Malcolm X wasn't Malcolm X, but for a very small portion of his life, in that small time, the potency, it's kind of a control thing. Well, you have to control the minds of these street people because if they realize that they can change their minds, then they come off the plantation. Right. So, okay. So, so it sounds like there's not necessarily good things in store for Gucci Mane. If he pushes the envelope too far, I don't like to put that kind of negativity out there. But if you start changing people's mind too fast, you've seen it happen over the course of this show.

2:31:29 You see what happens. Exactly. I mean, they come for you. Yeah, they come for your image first. And if they can't get your image, and that's the thing they could, that's the problem with Malcolm X because all his stuff was out there. All his previous life was out there. If you want to juxtapose that to like Martin Luther King, his image could be damaged by whatever secrets he had or supposedly had. Then it goes to, you know, it's like the silver or the lead kind of thing. First, they rob you with silver, and if they can't change your mind, then lead is the option.

2:32:10 But I don't want to put that out there, but I just want to show you what is. This is why the inner city black man or the I want to say inner city. I want to say something, it's something about a a person that says, you know what, I know the risk of doing said activity, but I am going to take my own life in my own hands because I can't live in squalor and I can't live in poverty.

2:32:47 So now, like you said, if you could take that same mentality and weaponize it with actual knowledge, it's very dangerous. That's why right now, Malcolm X is way more potent. He wasn't reading Martin Luther King. No, this is not Nakamart Luther King, but he wasn't reading Martin Luther King when he went to prison. Right. It's because Malcolm X spoke the street lingo and he spoke to the street people and he never lost that connection. And I think Jeezy Man has the same potential because the young kids love him. He still has the career to this day. The young people love him because he never, that tether is there. You know, he never severed that tether.

2:33:35 I know it's a lot to take in, but. No, I'm following along. I'm just wondering if we're going to get a MLK versus Malcolm X type split here. I don't know if that's in the cards. I don't think it's in the cards, but I'm thinking these are representations of these are, I don't know if icons the right word, but these are representation of the two kinds of black men that exist now. Right. And so clearly the one who goes, who reforms himself comes out with a different attitude, different message, no longer mind-trapped. Tis a problem for Stacey Abrams. He's a problem for a lot of people because

2:34:16 you're talking about ruining the bottom. Yeah. We're not just talking about the voting habits of people. We're talking about ruining the bottom, which if you destroy a foundation of a home, I know it's a lot, but I guess we can go back. And this is the reading from Malcolm X. I didn't say that before. This is the reading from the autobiography of Malcolm X. I guess we by Joe Morton. Let's put some respect on his name. And let's get into 4.2. To survive, he is out there constantly preying upon others, probing for any human weaknesses like a ferret. The ghetto hustler is forever frustrated, restless, and anxious for some action. Whatever he undertakes, he commits himself to it fully.

2:34:59 Absolutely. What makes the ghetto hustler yet more dangerous is his glamour image to the school dropout youth in the ghetto. These ghetto teenagers see the hell caught by their parents struggling to get somewhere or see that they have given up struggling in the prejudiced, intolerant white man's world. The ghetto teenagers make up their own minds that they would rather be like the hustler who they see dressed sharp and flashing money and displaying no respect for anybody or anything. So the ghetto youth become attracted to the hustler worlds of dope, thievery, prostitution, and general crime and immorality. Yeah. So this guy, Malcolm, was perfect. And I'm not talking about on the Devon sense,

2:35:41 but his understanding of the social dynamic to be unformally uneducated. And that's that's it's so mean. And that's why I don't buy into, I gotta say something because this is what irks me. It's this thing floating around, this meme of Pookie and Ray Ray. And what that is, is like you would consider like Gucci Van and Jeezy and these guys as pookie and ray rays, right? They're no good. They have no value to society. Right. But bro, the only reason I was sitting here at 40 years old and the, you know, the bit of success I have is my father

2:36:27 is the, he undergirded me with a confidence and a safety, a sense of safety. You didn't need to go out and find that male energy. Right. And that's that's what we're saying. That's why I played the game clips in the small town. Yep. Because if you don't have that energy inside the home, you'll get it outside. It's like this guy has the money and he beat the system. And, you know, like here's the everybody thinks that all these, you know, these rappers are gangsters and they're this and they're that. To those kids, they're Robin Hood because that's what they're selling.

2:37:09 I'm not saying they actually are, but that's what they're selling to the kids that we're Robinhood robbing from the rich and giving to the poor, which that's not the case because all the resources you're taking is from your own community. And that's why I have this. Right. But. But in the mind trap, it's he's beating the man. He's beating white supremacy. So, because this is why they're celebrating because he's getting paid, therefore, he's beating the system. He's going around it. Yeah. And like I said before, about S, the guy I was talking about that I had close proximity to.

2:37:48 When you're buying all the food and you're, hey, kid, you know what I'm saying? Here's a couple hundred dollars for some gym shoes, or let me sponsor this basketball team. It's not all bad. I keep saying before, El Chapo was celebrated in his community. No matter how much harm and murder he brought to Mexico and his community, he was celebrated because he took care of them. But at a larger level, that's the same in politics. It's the same. People are celebrated because they've done such great things and they can be incredible gangsters and crooks under the hood. Many are. But if you're securing the bag for your

2:38:32 people that support you, it's like, screw the other side. That's why politics is very similar to street culture and gang culture because it's about what can I do for the people that support me. So, I mean, I know I went a little far there, but I want to this Pookie and Ray Ray, it's a lot of redeemable people in all walks of life. And then there's other people that we think have made it that need to be called out. Because if you're trying to use your celebrity just to subjugate people further, that's why I don't have a problem with anybody I bring up on this show personally. But if that's what you're trying to do and not have people be self-reliant and

2:39:19 you're an enemy of the state, if not enemy of the culture. Right. It's not for the not for the culture. You're for your benefit as Bob Woodson laid out. Well, so I guess we can. It's also to fulfill his own mind trap. You're in that trap. You're in a loop. You got to keep going. The trap is on both sides. And I'm glad you grew. I'm going to hoop it on home. If you see yourself as Robin Hood, it's like, oh, yeah, let me go secure this for the people and bring it back to them by them voting.

2:39:55 We can get some government programs and things of that nature. If you become self-reliant and form your own community and work inside your own community, we can have much more. And if we realize our power with voting and spending, and even with that's what one of the biggest things I celebrate Gucci for is his physical transformation. Because this is what really ails black people at the end of the day. One of the biggest problems is our health, is what we consume. And you see it play out with COVID. And we mentioned that before. So even the changing of the physical, his changing of his mind has reflected in his changing of his physical appearance.

2:40:36 Now, is this now? I'm not saying, like I said, I'm not celebrating him as a Malcolm X. I'm not doing that. But all I'm saying is progress is progress. Now, is this recognized besides you, obviously? But the people say, damn, he got his shit together. This is good. This is, oh man, he's looking good. And do people see it as a release valve, a way out? It's a possibility. Is that recognized? Yeah. Even Charlamagne had to give him credit. Like, wow, you really turn it around. And he beat the mind trap. And the mind trap being, I have, and I know I'm going long-winded today, but we have to understand this.

2:41:15 The rules and what we call street is really penitentiary rules. You look at, when you lock people up, they turn into animals. And it's, you look to me the wrong way. And when you have people fresh out of being institutionalized and bring that mentality back to the hood, it's like, you look at me the wrong way. I gotta, I gotta do something about that right now. And I'm not saying this, like I said, this is not something I've heard or read in a book. People, when they come home from jail, they had they until they get acclimated back into society, they have a whole different time they move on. Yeah, where as a whole different mentality. As a country, but it's the same in every country. We're very poor at

2:42:00 helping people get back into quote-unquote civilian life, whether you're coming from the military or whether you're coming from the penitentiary. It doesn't matter. Neither one. I mean, I know friends who've been to penitentiary and the process is, and this is a white guy for white collar crime. And this is you know, a good friend of mine. He's been out for three years. He still can't get his life really back together. And the military is another great example because you're operating on a different wavelength when you're in life or death situations. Correct. And being institutionalized and being in military,

2:42:42 well, I want to say hot situations during the military. You don't have time to make, I mean, I'm just being, you know, with family members that were in wars, when they first come home, you can't approach them in a certain way. You can't just startle them in a certain way. So, like I said, I know I was long-winded on that. We can go ahead and jump to 32. It scared me the first time I really saw the danger of these ghetto teenagers if they are ever sparked into violence. One sweltering summer afternoon, I attended a Harlem street rally, which contained a lot of these teenagers in the crowd. I had been invited by some responsible Negro leaders who normally never spoke to me. I knew they had just used my name to help them draw a crowd.

2:43:27 The more I thought about it on the way there, the hotter I got. And when I got on the stand, I just told the crowd in the street that I wasn't really wanted up there, that my name had been used, and I walked off the speaker's stand. Well, what did I want to do that for? Why, those young teenage Negroes got upset and started milling around and yelling, upsetting the older Negroes in the crowd. The first thing you know, traffic was blocked in four directions by a crowd whose mood quickly grew so ugly that I really got apprehensive. I got on top of a car and began waving my arms and yelling at them to quiet down. They did quiet. And then I asked them to disperse, and they did. This was when it began being said that I was America's only Negro who could stop a race riot cold or start one.

2:44:13 I don't know if I could do either one, but I know one thing. It had taught me in a very few minutes to have a whole lot of respect for the human combustion that is packed among the hustlers and the young admirers who live in the ghettos where the northern white man has sealed off the Negro away from whites for a hundred years. Wow, that's cool. I've not read this autobiography, but that moment of holy crap, I can do either one. I can stop a race riot or I can start one. When you realize that yourself, wow.

2:44:49 Big step. That's power. That's big power. Yeah. That's power. And we've seen this third, we call what we call the third wave weaponized in this country. So, and that's just off of just off of monetary, I believe, of with the riots and everything. You know, like the first wave is the protesters and activists. Second wave is the agent provocateurs. And then the third wave. If you could actually control that third wave, because it's uncontrolled right now, it's just a force, right? But if somebody could actually channel and control, that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought for a lot of people.

2:45:31 Well, it depends. If you can control the wave to do something more positive, that would be great. It's still scary for a lot of people because they want the mayhem. Yeah, we can't have that. And now you see the problem with Malcolm X. It's like, yeah, that's great. You can do it. But if we can't control you and tell you which way you got to do it, you're no good to us. Yes. So that wraps up the second segment of the show. And we're going to thank some people. And we're going to find out who invented Making It Rain. But before we do, our producers made it rain on us. And we love it. We love it. We love the new money. Brand new money. I just, I don't want any money around me. It's not.

2:46:16 I'd almost rather have a new one than an old 20. That's kind of dumb. But there's something about new money that excites you. You like $100 bills? Oh, yeah. I like new money too. Oh, most beautiful thing on earth is $100 bill. I haven't seen a woman as good looking as a $100 bill. There's something about $100 bill that excites you. See, we're no different than young Jeezy. We're no different than Gucci Mane. We love, we love the stacks, the fresh dollar bills. It does keep the show going. And in effect, we're selling out of our virtual trunk here. And the cool thing about it is you don't have to dance. You don't have to palm any bills on us. You can just use modern means. It's called PayPal.

2:46:58 That's the one we're using right now. Although I have a feeling we'll be going Bitcoin in addition within our near future. It's unavoidable. And we want to thank the rest of our producers who sponsored and helped and supported episode number 55. And we say thank you to Michael Rohrer, Rohrer. who sent us 48.25. Mo and Adam, please accept this first contribution. And please, D-Deadbeat me. My pleasure. Congratulations. You're no longer a deadbeat. Mo, I was thinking these numbers, was this maybe a 50 and some PayPal fees got deducted? Or is this literally a 48.25 donation?

2:47:40 I can check. It doesn't tell you in the spreadsheet. Okay. I have to go back to the actual details, but I can check those. Which one is close? I'll start checking from now. Yeah, just to make sure. I want to make sure people get the right title. So we'll check on that. We can always go back and correct. So he said, yes, D-Debme, this is back to Michael. D-Deadbeat Me. I've been listening for the last few months, and this has been a very eye-opening education for me. I look forward to continuing the work and the fantastic perspective this show continues to provide. All the best. Mike, thank you, Mike. Leonard Bersma. I think he's, yes, he's Dutch. My name is Lennart. I'm from The Hague, the Netherlands, currently living in the Middle East. Wow, it's a good combo.

2:48:22 I've been trying to puzzle everything together from the election, the cultural Marcus Marxist uprising, BLM, COVID, and the great reset globalist movement. Thank you so much for helping me fill in some of the pieces that we're missing. Value for value, pay attention to everything, and the truth will reveal itself, he says. I salute you both. Keep up the good work. Mo, Mo, Mo, Fax, please. He might need Mofax Karma. So just in case he's asking for that. You've got. MoCom. 25.15 from Aaron Meyer. Finally able to catch episodes one through five. Just getting started. Thanks for the work you do. Well, you've got a lot of work to do yourself, Aaron. Keep it up. I do appreciate listening and gaining new perspective, and we appreciate you sending some value back to us.

2:49:04 Thomas Sullivan Jr., $25. Thanks for the great show and honesty, Mo and Adam. My late dad shamed me when I cried in front of him, and I will always resent him for that. Well, thank you. Well, that's a beautiful thing to share of how you feel. Yeah, I appreciate that. Oh, that's really nice. And thank you for supporting us. And thank you to Chef Elvis. Always there for us. $25 with a happy birthday to you, Mo. James Davis, 2472, one of the great thought-provoking, most thought-provoking podcasts. Thank you. Well, thank you for that. It's a big compliment. Spreading the good word, says Clinton, with a $23 donation for today's show. Thank you. Derek McNulty, who wants to call out Zamora as a buster?

2:49:49 I guess that's a deadbeat. It must be a deadbeat. There you go. You're a buster deadbeat. We'll just call him a deadbeat. And he wants a Mo Karma. We'll do that. Thank you very much, Derek. You've got MoCom. $20.33 from James Holly. Love the job you two do. Would like to call out my fellow Central Ohio Mo NA listeners. They know who I'm talking about. To help produce a show that doesn't need a weekly episode as long as you keep us thinking. As always, Mo Karma, please. So that means he's deadbeating these buddies of his. And a Mo Karma for himself. Well deserved. You've got. Mo Karma.

2:50:28 $20.21 from John Kornfirth. Aloha, Adam and Mo. Episode 54 was another mind-altering experience. We're all searching for truth, and the facts that you unleashed upon us should have come with a trigger warning. We warned you today, didn't we? As a former engineer myself, Mo admitting to his engineering day job helped me appreciate why I've been able to so effectively connect with what he has to share. Facts and data don't lie. Only people who control the narrative do. I'm looking forward to our Hawaiian Luwow of 2021. Oh, yes. That's our MoFax Luwow meetup. We're looking forward to that. Very much so. Jill Wood sent us $20 with no note. We appreciate it. So did Kevin Rowe.

2:51:09 He sent us $15. Thank you. Paul E. Lovato, hold my wine cooler. Hilarious. Did we say that? I can't remember. Yeah, that was what I said about Don Lemon. I mean, not Don Lemon, but Van Jones compared to the other. Hold my wine cooler. Watch me cry. One of the better ones. Thanks, Paul. $10 from him. $10 from Susan Tillett. Great show as usual, she says. Thank you. Pharaoh De Niro, $5.55. Salute, Mo. Salute, Adam. We salute you. Robert O'Donnell, $5. Great show as always. Doing the work. Robert Zemitz sends us $5, as does Anonymous D in the Big D.

2:51:50 Keep swimming, keep doing the work. Terry, the human subscription Keller sent us $4.11. It's his standard. And finally, Steven Polomain, 333. The magic number is all the way at the bottom. I would have donated more, but I had to send money to Van Jones this week so he could buy some Kleenex. I think brutal. Just brutal. I think that was Rebecca Zymitz. I think you said Robert. That's right. Oh, I'm sorry. It was Rebecca. Yes, you're right. Yeah, I want you to get in trouble there. But just one quick thing about the crying. I know

2:52:27 this is specific to something I struggle with. The image that black men have, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but you got to be very careful how you show weakness. And the thing I had with Van Jones was: I don't know. Who are you crying for more than the act of crying? Well, sure, but I want to understand something that you said. You've got to be careful how you show your weakness as a black man. So I'm presuming this means certain weaknesses are unacceptable to the culture, frowned upon. Why? Are you not allowed to show emotion? What's the problem?

2:53:12 Forget the phony emotion, obviously. Yeah, there's a term called being food. And if you appear to be weak or easily pushed over, that can be taken advantage of. Now, I'm not saying that's the right, it's kind of like that mind trap thing that Gucci Man referring to, these rules. It's hard baked in your mind. So I'm still struggling with myself. It's just that. Well, just a question. Do you think this is different in any other culture or any other?

2:53:53 I don't know. I mean, I can't speak for it. I mean, this is just my because I think it's the same. From my perspective. Yeah. I think in me, this may be the difference. If you're doing that on television, I don't think it matters who you are or what your background is. It will be viewed in a certain way depending on the topic. And I think when you cry on television, it's a very specific thing. It's something that used to be only seen on the Barbara Walters year-end special. So in some ways, it's heralded as, oh, my gosh, look, he's sensitive.

2:54:38 And I think that's what happened with Van Jones in general to the general population who watch CNN. I think that was seen as a very courageous, courageous thing. Whereas me, you, everyone else looks at it and go, what a bunch of crap. Or what are you really crying for, Van? So I'm just saying, I don't know if that's if it's any different in white or black culture to be seen as a creature. Like I said, I don't, I don't know, but it's more not, like I said, crying, it's fear, overly compassionate. These things can be used against you, or it's my perception as a black man with pips.

2:55:24 Well, okay. That it could be used against you as a weakness. So may I suggest as a white man that you open your mind because if controlled effectively, showing these emotions can be a very powerful tool. So I'm just saying it's that sounds like mind trap to me when you say, well, as a black man, if you cry, that's bad news. Well, maybe that's mind trap too. It is. Okay. But like anger. Let's just take crying off the table. Let's look at anger. Okay. Much better. I agree. Yeah. I made this statement a while back on a show.

2:56:07 I can't remember which one it was. About angry black man. Yeah, even the appearance of being angry. And I have people to this day. If I'm thinking, I scowl. And they'll say, everything all right? You got arrested because I'm like, why does everybody keep asking me? Am I all right? But my wife calls it, I got knots in my head, right? Because I mean, like, your browser crunches up. You're just thinking. I'm thinking, I'm deep in thought. Yeah, I'm processing. My hourglass is turning here. So, but to other people, the appearance is,

2:56:47 oh, he might snap. No, at any moment, he might blow. And I think as a black man, since we're hyper-masculized, it seems different when we cry. Because I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just giving a right. now analysis of, yeah. So we're talking about this is this is a good, good little excuse. Hold on, hold on, Adam. Adam, can you get the door, please? Yeah, hold on a second. Okay, just us. All right, yeah. When it comes to anger, so emotions in general, but when it comes to anger, I would just say that there's more and more examples these days with lockdowns and other things where we see angry black men on YouTube or Twitter, and they're saying stuff.

2:57:38 And the angry part works very effectively and is not seen as scary. I'm just talking from a white man's perspective. It's like, oh, wow, someone's really pissed off and they're making a lot of sense. And it's very attention-grabbing. It's a little different than what you're talking about because I can see where that's a thing. Oh, man. He's like, that guy is like, is he ready to pop off? But when real anger frustration is showed, I think it's very effective these days. It may be something of only just the past little bit, whereas you get an angry white man yelling on YouTube. It's like, ah, what a fool. Do you understand what I'm saying? I understand what you're saying, but let me counter that with this. This is why Barack Obama couldn't pop off.

2:58:25 Yes. Yeah. He could never pull what Trump. Now he did cry. Now he did. That's acceptable because of his demographic that he was trying to reach. So that's acceptable. But to say, hey, you talk to the president here. Don't ever talk to the president. Like, if he did that, oh, hell no. But I mean, so I always like when we had conversations. Well, I'm glad we're talking about this because I'm going to pay a little more attention to it and how I feel about it. Because I think that, well, I know from this show, my attitude has changed. We've talked about this before, where I actually saw a very angry, angry black man on the street who was yelling at me.

2:59:07 And I had an incredible sensation of calm. I'm like, bro, get on the sidewalk. I was not scared or anything. And that's, and maybe that's interracial, but say maybe it's two black men. And I'll say this. I have a close friend. He had an incident where he hit a door with his door. And the dude was like, what's up? And if he came back with what's up, those two words have. So what you're saying then, I mean, that's how it goes. Like, what's up? So what you're saying then, and it could devolve into something different. So we just have to be

2:59:52 not have to be. Let me stop saying that. It's the perception that we have to move on a different time. Okay, good. So it's all mind trap then. We agree. Yeah, it is a mind trap. I totally, I 100% agree. It's a mind trap. All right. It's getting stuffy in here. So let me. Yes, please, please. Okay, much better. Hey, everybody. We're back. And while we were saying that, something we talked about, you know, what we were talking about behind closed doors, something came to my mind. Are we out of the donation segment? Yes. Well, you're right. I didn't actually tell everybody how you can help us because we just went straight into that.

3:00:34 And that was because of the Van Jones Kleenex. Yes. Thank you for reminding me. Mofax with Adam Curry. It is a value for value proposition. What you're hearing here is a lot. And there's a lot that goes into this. A lot of our personal stuff goes into this as well. So we appreciate you showing your love and telling us about the value that you receive in your notes and also the numerology and just the straight up donations that you're sending to keep this show going to support the work. And to continue doing that, please go to MoFax.com or go directly to our donation page at mofundme.com, M-O-E-F-U-N-D

3:01:13 M-E dot com. And thank you all once again for supporting MoFax with Adam Curry episode number 55. I almost missed a valid point I wanted to make. So I'm glad we had that conversation we did. Okay. There was one song missing from this versus that I'm surprised that didn't get played on Jeezy's part. And that's my president is black. He didn't play it. Which that was the song he made for Barack Obama when he got re-elected in 2008. Right, right. But he chose not to play it, which was a glaring mission for me. Like, is Barack Obama that toxic?

3:01:58 Well, that he didn't want. want to play it, or he didn't want to seem like a democratic operative by playing it. But it was one of his biggest hits, so it not to be played. And you got, I mean, of your top 20 songs. Well, maybe I don't want to put that out there. Well, no, I think that you know, considering who he's who he's in bed with, figuratively, uh, the last thing we the last thing we want is anyone thinking about Obama. Like, now we got to move forward towards Joe. But no, you know, you want to conjure up those feelings of Joe's guy off. I'm looking. You think? You think that's good? You think that they want to conjure up Obama? I mean, isn't he toxic at this point for the culture?

3:02:40 That's my point. That's my, is he so toxic? I think so. Because that was the whole thing: that Joe is a racist. No, but Joe is a revisiting or coming back to the old Obama third term. Right. Well, I don't think anyone. He didn't play that song. I found that as I'm glad that we stopped and had that conversation because that sparked that thought come in. I hadn't made a note of that. Well, my thing, my feeling is play that. My feeling is Obama is considered toxic by the culture or for the new Democrat Party.

3:03:16 I think that's true. I believe that was my thing. I think with maybe dually, the two points I laid out: one, that he is toxic, and two, that would have been a way that would have been a red flag to a lot of people. Like, oh, oh, yeah, we know what's going on. Yep, I agree. All right, so I promise to share with you the origin of making it rain. Oh, yeah. So let's get to 34 Atlanta 3.1.3. That type of shit, but I'm still on the same mission I was on when I met Meach. You know what I'm saying? I'm still Meach. Who's Meet? Yeah. Is that the part where the program stopped? You ain't never heard of Big Meach? I met Harvey.

3:03:59 And then you traveled around everywhere and learned about different things all over the world. But that's how I learned about us by asking. Big Meets is Big Meach, man. I don't know how to explain that. Nobody ever asked me that question. That's crazy. Nobody ever asked me that. I don't know how to answer it. We got our own houses. We got our own cars. We got our own hoes. We got our own clothes. You know what I'm saying? And we can't be stopped. I don't see nobody stopping. I don't see no one to come after us either. No, I don't. Nobody'll never do this again. There's this many niggas and this much money can't get along. Big Meach. Ever heard of him? No. So Big Meach is the leader of the Black Mafia family.

3:04:40 Okay. Which they had Jeezy was affiliated with them, a part of them. It's very unclear what the relationship was. Some people say that they took him in as far as you know, he was like the music arm of BMF, but he was definitely affiliated with them. And Black Mafia family was cover your ears, kid. They were the shit. I mean, like, serious. I mean, okay, this is how much money they had. They will buy winning lottery tickets to laundry their money. So on the hope that one of them paid off? No, if somebody won. Yeah, I got it.

3:05:22 Yeah. So if you're a winner, they will look you up at that meal. We'll give you 1.2. Give us the ticket. Oh, okay. Okay. Wow. That's big. They had it. They had a billboard downtown Atlanta saying the world is ours. This is, I'm, that's why the dude was like, uh, he was a member of Black Mafia family. You never heard of Big Meach? Like, I mean, that was offensive. And these are the guys that created or it's the legend goals that they created making it rain.

3:06:00 Because they would go in and just make it rain. Just tsunami cash to the point where you couldn't see the floor cash. They would pull up two or three tour buses back to back. And I'm not saying 27-year-old me, that was like, wow, like that, that is, that's hot. You know what I mean? Like, that, I mean, knowing the implications of drugs and everything in that community, I get that. But this is the mind screw that you go through of seeing people created as legends, but then what they became legendary for.

3:06:41 Right. But those were those guys. Yeah, BMF. Rick Ross got a song called Big Meach. And he was saying, like, I mean, what I mean by that is to have. a song titled after a person, and then like the hook goes, I'm Big Meach. I'm like, I'm like Larry Hoover. Yeah, you're legendary. Legendary. So, Jeezy, I have a clip of him speaking about him and Big Meach's relationship because it's going to pay off in the end. But let's listen to that clip. What's that relationship like these days with Meach being gone for what did they give him? Like 30, 40? Yeah. I mean, she still want to go to Magic right now.

3:07:25 That's what we're talking about, Magic City. You know what I mean? You can't, like, wait, dude. You can't kill his spirit, man. He's a different type of dude, man. I mean, he just always been a strong individual, man. And I don't think that the prison is, you know, it is what it is, man. But I just think that he's not letting it kill his spirits, man. Like, you know, when you talk to him, he's in the best of spirits. And, you know, he's always calling and talking to people. And you would think he was home. You know what I mean? You can't hear it in his voice. You know, some people, they get in there and you hear it breaking them down. He's cool, man. He's keeping his head. I give him that. What do you think made Meach drew so many people to Meach? What was the cup? Because he cared, my nigga, like, he really did.

3:08:07 Like, he's a genuine dude. And I just think, you know, he just always wanted to see people in a better place. You know, even the conversations that we had. And I'll be the first to say when I first, you know, started popping off my music with great. Like, Meach is one of my biggest fans. Like, he loved it. Like, I would do shit and come from the studio and get in the car with him. We would ride and smoke and listen to that shit and just trip. You know what I mean? Like, and he would just be like, ah, nigga, you said that. He loved it. Wow. It's just reading the Wikipedia, man. These guys had a pretty big organization going on. They are trying to multi-state,

3:08:47 well, you could say national ring. Those are the guys that come into your neighborhood and like, hey, we're setting up franchises. And, but they were loved. I mean, that's why I keep bringing up El Chapo because to the people they care for. Now, I mean, I can't not see the mayhem and violence and destruction that was brought to the neighborhood due to their actions. How much of this is actually mirroring the glamour of El Chapo, or I would say, probably still popular Scarface? I would probably say more Paulo Escobar. Oh, Escobar. But also, also, Scarface.

3:09:30 I mean, the world is mine. I mean, that was what Scarface put on. Remember, that was his line. Oh, Scarface has a huge, and we spoke about this. Yeah, we did. Scarface has a huge impact on the culture because it's coming from the bottom, starting from nothing, making your way up, and making yourself into a substantial figure that resonates on a certain level. So here's how it must work. If you're doing this multi-state hundreds of millions of dollars, you're recognized by the political establishment. You're recognized by the white criminals in the system.

3:10:10 And I think it's probably, it's all intertwined and with politics. It cannot be, you cannot run. Goggles, Curry. Goggles. I'm sorry. Sorry. All right. I can't see crap now. All right. We're getting there. We're getting there. You and your future travels. I'm sorry. So, but that was Jeezy in 2000. Well, things sour between him and Big Meach. And I'll let Big Meach speak for himself. Links and it's violated. It ain't like we coming out.

3:10:49 People that know us will tell you, like, them dudes are some of the coolest dudes moving across the face of the earth. You know, we come in, we got drinks for everybody. You know, you come in with your man, them. They family. We all family. Now, if I'm out with Maya and trying to show Maya a good time and some just off-brand dude come by and grab my ass and say, yo, bitch, what up? We gonna mop the flow with his ass. That's why I fuck with him. It's called respect. That's a good relationship with them, Jeezy. Who? Who? Oh, part of me. So the dope boy is not going crazy in there. You talking about Jeezy from the Bay? Oh, John Jeezy from Atlanta. Yeah. Oh, you're talking about Jay Jenkins, young Jeezy. That's what you call him. There's a lot of Jeezy's, man.

3:11:36 Is he really well respected in the streets and stuff out there? Yeah. Yeah. The whole homo community love him. I'm not playing no games with you. I don't, because you know, when the movement started, he was one of the faces of it. of it, right? And then, you know, when everything went down, you know, it seemed like he separated. I don't mean, look, I mean, whatever you want to clear up, you could clear up. I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna tell you like this: I like the man's music because I always did. That's why I fucked with him from Jump Street. I'm not no hater. But if you and your homeboys is walking through the mall, and it's three of y'all, and then 15 guys come and say, We're finna beat y'all ass. And the nigga that run was Jeezy. He was the nigga that ran.

3:12:18 Slap, yeah. So he, when Jeezy got on with fame and you know, celebrity and uh had the huge rec contract and all that. No, what he did at one. I don't know, I don't know no uh black mafia family that did not lose crazability. He was, but I'll say this in the matter of self-preservation. The kind of numbers they were facing. I'm not, I'm not, I'm this kind of person. If I'm in it, I'm in it. And if I'm not in it, I'm not in it. That's why I can never participate in these kind of groups or any group because

3:13:01 I am for myself and not in a selfish way, but I can't put taking the fall, even if I have nothing to do with it, you know, for somebody else. I can never do that. You know what I mean? I'm just being honest with you. And I think out of self-preservation, and geez, I mean, I've made it, I've got where I need to go. You screaming BMF on every record, but then when they ask you, Do you know anything about BMF? No, I don't know no BMF. I don't know what you're talking about. And I think to a guy like Big Meach, who's really in it, I mean, like, I said, Blood in, Blood Out. You, you don't, you can't get out.

3:13:41 You know, you have to. Got to stay in. Right. But I mentioned this before with Flynn. The same thing. It's the same mentality. If you're riding with Trump, you catch a case, you don't rat. No. Manaphor is still sitting up. He didn't rat. General Flynn, he didn't rat. Right. But then Michael Cohen, Jesus, like the Michael Cohen. Yeah. That's a good analogy. That's a good analogy. So that's why it's like, it's not about, you know, you don't just don't turn your back on it. So I'm going to play this next clip. And this is from show 28, Black Don't Crack.

3:14:26 To kind of, this is how drug dealers, kingpins can kind of absolve themselves from, well, somebody's got to sell drugs if I don't sell it. And this is from New Jack City, the court scene. You're the one who's guilty. Lawmakers, the politicians, the Colombian drug lords, all you who lobby against making drugs legal, just like you did with alcohol during the prohibition, you're the one who's guilty. I mean, come on, let's kick the ballistics here. Ain't no Uzi's made in Harlem. I mean, not one of us in here owns a poppy feet. This thing is bigger than Nino Brown.

3:15:11 This is big business. This is the American way. Okay, my goggles are still on, so I'm just not going to say anything. Yeah, so yeah. I mean, that was the logic of we ain't bringing it here. So if you're going to get mad at somebody, get rat the right people, or how you're going to be a hypocrite and be mad at us and not the other people. Now, I mean, there's nuance to that argument, but I'm just telling you how the logic works for somebody that's on a high level like that, from my understanding. And Nino Brown, to a lot of people, is seen as a hero because he made it. And if the ultimate goal is making it, it doesn't matter how you make it. How they make it.

3:15:54 Yeah. So I found this interesting clip from BMF Jabari. And he touches on a point that I made a long time ago about adrenaline. Oh, my drug of choice was adrenaline. My drug of choice was the family. You know, that familiar that's bigger than almost any drug out there on earth. And the adrenaline of driving in a car across country 2,000 plus miles, 100 kilos in there, and you're the only one in the world in that state that knows is there. You know, that adrenaline rush is beyond dope or anything for me.

3:16:36 I don't use drugs. I don't drink. I don't touch. I don't taste or nothing. But that was my drug. Wow. Yeah. And these. were a lot of bright, ambitious young men. If given maybe a different path, they would probably, you know, saying, turned out differently. But this goes to show you that he didn't drink. He didn't do anything. But adrenaline, I think I've made that point before about a lot of these kids running around doing the shooting and playing this game. And I'll go back a little bit to the Kendrick Lamar spoiler alert. That was kind of what they were doing.

3:17:16 Running around, playing the game, popping shots off at people, each other, and somebody gets killed in the process. And then one scene from the skit and the Kendrick Lamar album, it was like, we're going to pop a few shots and you know, and then that ha-ha. The dudes actually said ha-ha after they shot the neighborhood up in the skit. Yeah. Because it's not taken seriously, you know, until somebody actually gets hit. So I just want to make that point about adrenaline. And it's no different, I think, in the mentality of a guy going down a slope on the X games, a 50-foot slope on a skateboard. You know what we used to do for our adrenaline? Rock fights.

3:18:03 Yeah, I know. I know how stupid are we? So, rock fights. Yeah, somehow there were two teams. I don't really, I think I do remember. This was in Holland, by the way. So it's a whole different culture altogether. But it would be the kids from a village up the road. And there was a house being demolished. And so there were lots of rocks around and stuff. And I can't even remember how it happened. We just started a rock fight and we're throwing rocks at each other. And until one kid got a fucking hole in his head. And then all of a sudden we were like, damn, that was dumb. Let's go home. But it was pure adrenaline.

3:18:42 I remember it vividly. Like, holy crap, I could get a hole in my head. Wow, this is cool. We didn't have guns, but if we had them, we probably would have used them too. But nowadays, these young kids have access to guns so early on. And that's why I say GBG. Because I'm going to start GBBG, get black boys guns. And I know that a lot of people had a sticker shot. I mean, like, oh, what did you say? I think if you take young black boys out, teach them how to hunt, train them, see what it's like to see life pour out of an animal. I mean, you're going to eat the animal or whatever. But I think that's why the lack of respect for guns is part of the problem in our community as well.

3:19:27 Oh, golly. Yeah, but that all that used to be culture. You used to take your shotgun, your 20, not your shotgun. You take your 22 to school, put it in your locker. I'm going hunting later, going shooting later. Right, because I was talking to a friend. He's like, I'm taking my son out to get his first buck. And I'm sure once he sees that animal die, total disrespect for that tool called a firearm. So I know I'm all over the place today, but I just want to make that point as well. But that's Big Meach. And I'm going to say this about Jeezy. If you have the governor's ear and the president's ear,

3:20:08 if Meach wants to come home and restore order in the streets, right now, we're post, the analogy I would say, we're post-Osama right now. You remember how crazy it was in Afghanistan in the Middle East when you took out an Osama or a Saddam Hussein? Now you have like five other warlords buying from the state. Mayhem, mayhem. Of course. Whenever you take out someone big in the gang or in the mob or organized crime, it's always a fight for who's the boss now. So I'm going to say this. Remember when Kanye went first talked to Trump in the over office?

3:20:47 Yeah. He was talking about bringing Larry Hoover home. And he was also mentioned in this song, Big Meach, by Rick Ross. I'm like, Big Meach, I'm like Larry Hoover. So if Meach, Larry Hoover, can come home, restore order to the streets, I'm all for it. And I think Jeezy needs to ask. I know people are like, what are you talking about, Mo? I am not anti-organized crime. The reason why I say that is I am a realist that no crime is going to exist. Vice is going to exist. If you saw a thing in Portland, they've legalized the possession of drugs. So, I mean, we've gotten to the point where people are going to get high. People are going to participate in prostitution. People are going to participate in gambling.

3:21:30 Now it's like, if we can bring these well-respected people home, respected by their peers and the guys that came up. like them. And they can restore order where we don't have guys getting shot in the mall and shot in the streets and all kinds of mayhem where it can reach civilians. I'm all for it. I'm for anything that brings solutions to our community. I know that sounds crazy, but even in the streets, you got to have some kind of order. It sounds, well, it sounds hopeful. And yes, as long as there are drugs and as long as those drugs are illegal, then there's going to be.

3:22:15 I got to peek out from under the goggles because, yeah, this is all going on with street drugs. Meanwhile, Purdue Pharma just admitted they were drug dealers with a whole freaking network of legal drugs. They pay a fine. No one goes to jail. None of the doctors, the pill mills. And of course, that trickled down to the street as well. None of it. And these guys, I would say, in the opioid game, are above the street gangs. We're handing it down. And first we said, all the rich white people get it. And then, oh, we got some excess. Let's distribute it over here. Maybe those kids can turn it into lean or whatever, mix it up.

3:22:58 Those are the criminals. The criminals are there. And as long as you've got these two systems, they're meant to work together. They're baked into the system. It's a part of it. And I don't know. We may find out if we've had systemic voter fraud in our republic for the past 40 years. And that will, and if that is demonstrated and shown to the American people, that will freak a lot of people out. Wait until you find out what's really going on. What's really going on. Because all of this, to me, what's happening on the streets in the pip urban areas is part of the same thing.

3:23:41 And it's intended to be kept that way. Yeah. And I'll go back to, and we can go into the next clip after this one. I'll go back to the Godfather line when they were disbating well, they were at the same point I'm at now. It's going to be a drug trade, right? Because I mean, that's what Michael Coleon's father was arguing against, like, don't bring, you know, we don't need to get into the drug game. And everybody was, the other four families convinced them, like, there's going to be a drug market. And then what do they say? As long as you keep it down there with the N-words. Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what they said. And that's a movie, but that's been the sentiment because when you listen to this next clip clip from James Bradley talking about the Roosevelt opium empower.

3:24:28 I'm out in China and I find that the grandfather of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, his name was Warren Delano, was the opium king of China. The fortune that Franklin Delano Roosevelt lived off of, custom-made suits, nice houses, sailboats, vacations, summer homes. He didn't make that money. He inherited from Grandpa Warren Delano, the opium king of China. Cabot House at Harvard, opium. Skull and Bones at Yale, opium. The Low Library at Columbia, opium money. If you go on the Princeton website, at least they're honest, they will admit that their first biggest benefactor, John Green, was an opium dealer with Warren Delano.

3:25:13 So the book is full of surprises. I'll let you judge. It didn't change my view about America so much. What it did is change my view about American historians. Yes. Poorly documented. No argument there. Absolutely. And I think this is what you're alluding to about the power structure. And I'll say this last thing because you brought it up: the opioid epidemic. And people are like, well, you know, they didn't treat black people, white people like they did black people during the crack era. And that's a very astute observation, but I don't think they understand the reason why. It's not about the victim or the user of the drug. It was about who is going to be put in handcuffs if you get in trouble.

3:25:58 If something comes up, it would have been a bunch of doctors that would have had to be perp walked out of their legitimate establishments. And that is not going to happen because the drug doctors have a lobby. They have a lobby. So they're like, nah, that's not going to happen. And so they're like, we'll pay a pay or penalty. The pharmaceutical companies and they took the hit. The doctors didn't have to. It wasn't even covered, brother. It was not even covered on the news. It was a throwaway line. Hundreds of thousands of people dead because of this one company. And it wasn't covered because, not because of the company. color of the skin, maybe to a lesser extent, maybe the color of skin of people that died.

3:26:39 It was about who sold it to them. That's the problem. And that's why they didn't prosecute them in the same manner because doctors are not getting locked up. That's just not happening in this country. But also, the media is who's the number one advertiser on television. Number one. Hello, pharma. You're not going to say anything about pharma because that's your bread and butter. You do not, do not talk negatively about pharma. So it's a scam. And once again, look who's getting the bad end of the stick. Yeah. And so that leads us into the next clip: the meaning connection. What forces could be responsible for compromising the entire system of justice?

3:27:24 Bill Clinton certainly knows. He was the governor of Arkansas who allowed the subversion of his state government by the shadowy forces radiating from the Reagan Bush White House when ex-CIA Director William Casey began using the CIA to illegally conduct secret foreign policy. This serious breach of America's constitutional authority was labeled by the media as Iran-Contra. This documentary will rewrite this dark period in American history and leave you with an annoying question: who or what is running this country? Gun running, mysterious CIA flights,

3:28:10 contra military training, guerrilla pilot training, clandestine airdrops, tons of illegal drugs, millions of dollars in dirty money, covert activity in some third world banana republic, right? Wrong, Arkansas, America's own banana republic. So I'll bring this up again. Cool breeze said it on a goodie mob song.

3:28:54 He said, Dirty Bill Clinton fronted me some weight. This is the early 90s. This is before the internet. This is not some conspiracy theory. This was wide known that the Clintons were running heavy drugs in the South. And I have proof now of something I said a while back about one of the mechanisms or one of the methods they used to transport it. And that was inside of Tyson Chickens. Yes. This is why Tyson chickens, no, excuse me, this is why kilos of cocaine, I believe, are referred to as chickens.

3:29:31 The Clinton Chronicles won. One of Hillary's investments under the direction of Tyson Foods Counselor James Blair netted almost $100,000 on an initial $1,000 investment on nearly impossible feat using legal methods. I can't read their minds or speculate, but I had absolutely no reason to believe that I got any favorable treatment. Coincidentally, Governor Clinton enacted a number of state regulations allowing Tyson Foods to grow into the largest industry in Arkansas. Don Tyson put in six, seven hundred thousand dollars all told in all of Bill Clinton's campaign.

3:30:16 Guess what he got out of it? He got $10 million. Guess from where? The Arkansas Development Finance Authority. And he never paid a dime for it. I had heard rumors of Don Tyson and his alleged cocaine use and distribution. I went through the intelligence files and come up with enough that I thought was sufficient amount of evidence to launch an investigation on Mr. Tyson out simply out of the Arkansas State Police. Intelligent files have been accumulated for years. Yeah, and there was also a nice nod to this in Breaking Bad, if you remember.

3:30:57 Where polo chicken was being used. And you know where the distribution centers are alleged to be that the Tyson trucks were showing up at? Do tell Walmarts. Of course, another fine Arkansas firm, which is which is, so as the story goes, and this is all alleged, this is all alleged. Load up the chickens full of cocaine, go all across the nation to Walmart. Walmarts, empty the chickens out, put the chickens on the shelf, the cocaine goes out the back door.

3:31:37 That's pretty well established. I think these are facts. Right, I'm just saying for people. So it's not just, we're not talking about Roosevelt and the, you know, and the opium trade. We're talking about people that are still in power today that made these, you know what I'm saying, made these decisions that impacted the community, the culture, they would say, and nobody's held the task. And then you turn around and you want to work with these people, and then you want to demonize other. I mean, I'm just like, let's just be fair. However, we call it. If you want to call it Louis, you want to call it tight. That's fine, but call it fair. It's amazing.

3:32:18 It is amazing. This information is out there for the people's consumption, but nobody does anything with it. Well, I have some things to say, but I want to get through the Clinton Chronicles clips first. I want to hear what else we've got. Go ahead. Number two. A great deal of criminal investigation files were surfacing with Don Tyson's name mentioned in there as being involved with some drug and narcotics trafficking activities. So I interviewed some of the investigators who worked on the Tyson case. Most of them felt that Tyson should have been indicted, but the investigations were always sabotaged, oftentimes from within.

3:33:02 One particular undercover NARC agent told me that another criminal investigator in that department named Doug Fogley was furnishing Don Tyson with photographs of the undercover narcotics agents that were working on his case. Donald Smaltz was actually hired to look into the allegations that Tyson had given bribes to different people, specifically to the Secretary of Agriculture, Mike Espy. And what came out of that investigation was very remarkable. Drug abuse,

3:33:44 drug distribution, money laundering, even murder for hire. Now, Smaltz collected all this stuff. He compiled it. He put it in proper order. And he approached Janet Reno and said, look, you know, I need to broaden my investigation. I'm finding more here than just simple payoffs. What do you think happened? Well, by now, most of you already know. He was turned down. Clinton had some goons. Yeah, but I had those goons. Okay. Go ahead. I'm holding. I'm holding. I'm holding, Moe. I'm holding. I'm holding back. I'm holding back.

3:34:26 All right, so let's go ahead and jump into three. Don Tyson was in the middle of the cocaine just like Bill Clinton. Just like Dan Lasker. Just like Roger Clinton and all the others. So you see, all of this incest and all of this drug running, all of the trafficking drugs, sending them all over the nation, came in little Mina, Arkansas, right under the nose of little Governor Billy Clinton. I went to Bill and I said, Bill, you've got two weeks to tell the truth. Or I'm going to tell it. You're breaking the law and I can't be a part of it. You made a mistake. I'm not one of your buds, or at least I'm not that big a buddy.

3:35:10 When Larry Nichols made his disclosures, made them public, the Clinton spin doctors treated him unmercifully. It shocked those of us who had been kept in the dark through the years in Arkansas politics. The Arkansas news media had done little, if anything, to uncover anything derogatory about Bill Clinton. And for these disclosures to come out of the blue was so shocking that the spin doctors attacked the messenger

3:35:54 rather than tried to answer the charges that Nichols had made. Well, I have some perspective on this. Please, my uncle, Donald Gregg, who was in the CIA before it was CIA, he's now just in his 90s. It was still the OSS. He had to testify in front of Congress and was implicated. in the Iran-Contra scandal, as he at the time was Vice President Bush's national security advisor. And he got off scot-free, but within the family,

3:36:41 the discussion was kind of, well, he didn't cover his boss's ass, which, and if you look into him, and by the way, I think Uncle Don is a patriot, and I think he was a useful idiot in this gambit because it's always been played as this was drugs for guns and that the CIA was giving guns or selling guns to the Contras and doing that in the only payment they could accept was cocaine and they turned that into crack cocaine and then eventually spread that out on the on the streets of California, Los Angeles in particular.

3:37:24 It is my belief that this was always a false view of what was really going on because the Clintons, they're just pawns and Bill Clinton is a nice guy, but he's dumb. And look at his brother Roger. And so they were working for the Bushes. The Bushes are truly the crime family. Maybe no longer. I'm not quite sure what's left of it. But Daddy Bush, Papa Bush, Poppy, he was the guy who started in the CIA at the very beginning. And I believe President Eisenhower said it.

3:38:05 President Kennedy felt it with some hot lead. The CIA is running all of this. The CIA has been running the drugs in the United States for a long, long time, possibly before you and I were even born. They are a complete criminal organization. And with a little bit of luck, but a lot of skill, 45 Savage may be able to uncover this. It may be part of the big reveal, but the CIA is a toxic, horrible organization. It wasn't always that way, but it didn't take long before it got corrupted. They have unlimited power.

3:38:49 They have unlimited money because they sell the drugs. I think we discussed the Bush family. Actually, they own property in Compton. No, they, no, that's where he was. Compton is where George W George Hubert. Not the HW or WH, whatever it is. He was, he lived in Compton. Right. Yeah. And that's where the CIA agents supposedly showed street-level drug dealers how to cook up the crack. That's exactly true. It's the CIA, which they're criminals. They're the criminals.

3:39:27 They're the criminals. They're the criminals, Moe. It's not the Clintons is just, I mean, everyone, look, please focus on the Clintons, whatever you do, focus on the Clintons. Don't focus on the Bushes and don't focus on the CIA. It's my opinion. I have a little more insight than most. I'm pretty sure the true criminals at the top is going to be your central intelligence agency in its modern form, not what they started off being. And I always say this: the most powerful man in this country, maybe in the second half of the 1900s, was George Bush Sr. Yes, sir. Because if you look at how long that flag was half-masked

3:40:10 when he passed, I've never seen any. I was like, because at work, we have the flag half-mask doing national tragedies. I was like, that thing still that. Who else died? And it was still for him. And that lets you know the power. I'm all on board with you. Reagan gets to blame for it. I don't think Reagan had the mental capacity at the time. I think he ran it the whole twist. I think it was the eight years that he was vice president coming straight out of the CIA. Yep. Then he ran it for another four years when he was president. And then he ran it for another eight years under his stooge, the

3:40:50 George, I mean, excuse me, Bill Clinton. Yes. So I'm in total agreement. As the spin doctors, we know who the spin doctors are. That's the media. And the media will never, it's amazing. If George Bush wanted to defeat Bill Clinton, this would have been public knowledge. Yes. But it wasn't. One other data point that's kind of fun. If I say 9-11, 2001, you know exactly where you were, right? Right. Okay. So do I. do I. If you say to anyone, to your parents, you say, Do you remember where you were when Kennedy got shot? They'll know exactly where they were. The one man in America who on record has said, I can't remember where I was

3:41:35 is George Herbert Walker Bush. He's on record. Don't forget Poppy. Well, that is Poppy. I know. That's why I said, don't forget the Poppy. Oh, please. Exactly. Why do they call him Poppy? We know that. Please. But he does not know where he was on the day President Kennedy was assassinated. And one day this will come out. I hope we're still around when it does. And do you know why I think or a weird analogy? Because it's just like with the chickens. Why was cocaine called chickens? I always wondered that. You know what I'm saying? Birds and chickens. I like that a lot. I like that. Well, you know, the guy with all the chickens, you know what they call him?

3:42:16 Poppy. Get out of town. I'm going to see Poppy to get them birds, getting them bricks. I didn't know that. That's cool. It's this crossover between elite level criminality and elite level accepted criminality. And I'm not going to make a difference between the two, but it's just criminality. Look at it as an organization. Look at it as an army. And look at all, you know, they've got the marketing arm, media. They've got the lawyers, which is literal lawyers who also are all politicians or most politicians or lawyers.

3:43:01 They've got the whole thing all the way down the line. And they've got all, and who cares if a couple of black guys go to jail? Wait a minute. I do like what they're doing with this drug culture songs. And we got to promote that a little bit. It is so. And this is what I, in my heart of hearts, believe that Trump is trying to show us this. And I don't know how far he'll get. I really pray for him that he does it because that's the swamp, man. Now you're talking swamp. And he has made some moves that mimic what Kennedy did back in the late 50s, particularly as it pertains to the CIA's power.

3:43:42 And you may have seen this little switchover that they did with special operations, which is pretty much the CIA was running them for everything from Libya to Syria to, you name it, to Benghazi, all CIA-run operations. And I believe that they were there. That's why everyone was so crazy about Trump. It's like, oh my God, this guy just might expose us because it's so rampant, so widespread, and the world is so connected. Things getting a bit hot because people find stuff out and idiots on podcasts talk about it and people get wise to it.

3:44:20 And we're still in Afghanistan. Don't let that escape you. Oh, and please, please do look at where our troops are stationed and you will see that they are exactly in the areas where the poppy fields are. It's called protection. Right. Wish we saw the same thing with Vietnam War and the influx of an American president. Wasn't that Denzel? American Gangster. American Gangster. That will be who they equate a freeway Ricky Ross to, oh, he was running the whole thing. It's like, bro, come on. Come on. No way. No way. It don't work like that.

3:44:59 No, it does not. So I would not be allowed in the conspiracy theory community if I didn't let this last chunk of information get by me. Let's just jump right into it. Gucci Man and Charlemagne 2. Do you think the Gucci, the Gucci clone conspiracies were a reflection of how toxic the hood mentality is? I kind of, it was entertaining to me. I kind of thought it was funny. I enjoyed the Gucci clone. I ain't going to sit here in front. Do you feel like a clone sometimes? No, I don't feel like a clone, but I did kind of like the, man, that shit was funny. It was funny. Like, damn, they think I'm not really the same person. I didn't look at it like, they didn't feel me.

3:45:42 I kind of wanted them to keep it going. That's a compliment. Yeah. Like, now, now all of a sudden, not on my dick again. Now it's like, no, I'm not a clone. Keep going with the clone shit. Don't stop that. I'm not familiar with the Gucci Main clone. So he made such a transformation coming out of jail. People thought he would clone in jail. Okay. Well, I don't subscribe to that because I think cloning is a very tedious process. I do think it exists. And I do think that. But I think they're so unstable. This is just my personal opinion. opinion. I don't know any clones, and I don't know, so I can't speak for

3:46:19 Rocco the dog, man. I think Rocco might be a clone, right? So, I don't think uh cloning Gucci Man was the best option. But can I get a little theorem in here? Because, uh, what I do hold on, hold on, I gotta tune it up. There we go, you know, how to plug that thing in. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. We're going off the rails. Mo calls for the therapy. Can't be good. So, if you want to subscribe to something happened to Gucci while he was in jail that helped him with this transformation, I would go more with MK Ultra rather than cloning.

3:46:58 Because if you change a person's mind on that level, I'm not saying he was, but I'm just saying I think this is if you want to go conspiracy theory with Gucci Man, him being in a federal prison in Atlanta will be a great opportunity to mind control him. That way, you can control all his supporters and sponsors when he's released back to the streets. I think that's a far more plausible conspiracy than the cloning and well puppet 45. While America's intellectual and artistic elite were experimenting with acid for self-exploration, the U.S.

3:47:39 government was secretly giving this powerful new drug to prisoners, prostitutes, drug acts, people who couldn't fight back, as one CIA officer put it. Maybe the Unabomber was given LSD as well, though we'll never know for sure, thanks to CIA Director Richard Helms's having most of the program's records destroyed. This is Boston mobster Whitey Bulger, who was another illustrious graduate of MKUltra, and he was definitely given LSD while in Atlanta federal prison as a volunteer.

3:48:17 Alleged mobster James Whitey Bulger fled Boston in late 1994 as federal agents were about to arrest him in connection with 19 killings, racketeering, and other crimes that spanned the early 1970s to mid-1980s. Bulger went into prison as a small-time thug, but when he got out, he took over the Boston underworld by corrupting nearly the entire Boston FBI office. James Whitey Bulger went on to become Boston's most powerful criminal and spent 16 years on the FBI's most wanted list. Whitey Bulger's henchman later testified during his various trials that the gangster often talked about his experience with LSD and that it quote took him to the depths of insanity.

3:49:03 Did LSD help transform a simple South Boston truck hijacker into a brilliant criminal? An unanswerable question to be sure, but an interesting one nonetheless. I love Whitey Bulger coming back, man, because Whitey Bulger fingprints are over a lot of stuff these days. Do you know who he was in Atlanta? Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, he was in Atlanta federal prison when he was allegedly put under the MK Ultra program. Yeah. And who was involved in Whitey Bulger's downfall and who has visited him in prison in the last five years?

3:49:48 Who was that? I don't know. You got me. Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller. Oh, yeah. Barr Mueller, all connected to Whitey Bulger. Whitey Bulger, who died in prison, was a very big 45 Savage fan. So you take those four names and look who wound up dead. Although I don't know if he died of any, we don't know because what do we know? We're just reading something. Right. So yes, to MK Ultra, possibly. Also, possibly that someone got some real truth on the inside. It's like, oh, wait a minute.

3:50:32 So, like I said, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that he went under MK Ultra. I'm just saying that's a far more plausible. If you want to say that he didn't do it on his own, that's a far more plausible conspiracy. It is. But I think the MK Ultra is actually a cover for the Whitey Bulger connections. Oh, okay. Okay. You know what I'm saying? That makes sense. So this is why when I look at, well, Mueller, everybody, gosh, man. You know, these people are so corrupt. Look at 9-11. just since we played the theremin,

3:51:15 who became FBI director two weeks before 9-11? Who's that Mueller? Robert Mueller. Now, ever since J. Edgar Hoover, you know, the black man. Ever since J. Edgar. Passable. Very passable black man. Ever since J. Edgar Hoover started the FBI really as a black male operation. And of course, that all came out. A law was put on the books, one you couldn't just change easily. And the law was the FBI director by statute cannot be in office more than 10 years.

3:51:55 So when, so we had 9-11 and we had all the crap going on in the Middle East. And, you know, for those of you who were alive 20 years ago, this 9-11 thing, that was crazy, crazy times. You know, everyone was confused. Everyone was, and the internet had just kind of really started going wide so people could look stuff up. And so when Obama came in, they did something very remarkable. They, through a number of tricks, and I don't even know if it was legal, they somehow finagled this statute of 10 years and gave Robert Mueller an extra two years in the Obama administration.

3:52:35 I'm telling you, this is rotten to the core. And it's, it's, it's, hey, they don't call it the White House for nothing. This, it's, it's been very, very bad. And it would be beautiful for it all to come out and everyone to be able to see how the upper echelons of our world, but certainly of our country, have really propagated a war for profit and for lots of power on the American people in different forms. You know, we got different drugs for different classes of people. We've been through that. We've seen it all happen. And so what if those people down at the bottom get killed? That's who these people are.

3:53:20 That's who's really running the country or was running the country or maybe still is. We don't know. But that's how bad it is, Mo. And we've kind of approached it from the bottom up, which is the way to go. It's the way to look at it is just go all the way up through the chicken, through the Clinton, through the Bushes, to the CIA. God knows who else is up above this. And you see all the fingerprints. All you have to do is, you know what I'm saying? Actually follow the follow the paper trail from the bottom. You had to start at one end of the other, and we don't know what's at the top end. So at least we can start the bottom end, and then we keep following the stream. And here's a thought: stop voting for these assholes. We gave you a warning at the beginning.

3:54:05 Stop voting for them. You're killing yourself. Yeesh. Well, Adam, that's my wrap on the verse. And it's just another part of that system, man. Everything's been co-opted, which is why we have to keep podcasting alive. It's truly the last independent, non-send, decentralized content distribution system we have. It's the last post of free media. That's all it is. Yes, it is. And we hope that you will continue to support this for this and many other reasons. And if you got any type of value from this show, I know I always do, but these are four hours of my life I will cherish.

3:54:50 I love doing this one with you, Mo, because I learned so much more than other episodes because, I mean, just what do I know about Traps? I know the names, et cetera, but it's been really, really educational. And I think we got to something good here that people can learn something from. So do consider supporting us at MoFax.com. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. Mo, I look forward to our next encounter, my friend. All right. See you next time, Adam. All right, everybody. Take care. Mofax.com. See you next time. Man, oh man, have you been to Spain?

3:55:32 Were the joy of loving people make you happy again? Women so pretty, even more so at night. While in the streets, the dance brings on to you such delight. And man, oh man, before you go home, catch a flight on to the one. Italy's beauty may put on a show to arouse all your love and make your heart grow.

3:56:16 And I wanna go back to the sweetness of time. I wanna go back and reminisce what was mine. I wanna go back again and again. For I'll never forget your bright eyes as we sat there. Man, oh man, in the middle of France. Though odds were against us, I still took a chance. A chance in a lifetime was with us that night.

3:57:02 I found you at last with love at first sight. I know, for I'll never forget your bright eyes as we sat there. Man, oh man, in the middle of France. Though odds were against us, I still took a chance.

3:57:46 A chance in a lifetime was with us that night. I found you at last with love at first sight. And I wanna go back to the sweetness of France. I wanna go back and reminisce what was mine. I wanna go back again and again.