Never Seen 1995 Interview With Waco Survivor Catherine Matteson [Cw1hkGgfK34]

00:04 Hi, this is David Thibodeau and I love the Mike Hansen archives. You've seen it with your own eyes can you tell me what you've seen? There was no child abuse at all and when Joyce came in to check the children uh she i talked with her and as I talked with her she told me that our children were very intelligent that she could find nothing wrong, no indication at all of child abuse. They answered every question and she is very surprised that they were so polite but... Okay and I even seen something where the sheriff had said the same thing did you see anything like that? Well i haven't read everything has been written but I know that to the sheriffs knew us and they knew that we were making no problems with anybody around us

00:57 They knew that we weren't having any kind of confrontation with anybody that was a neighbor, that instead of arguing and trying to prove our points to them we had sent... David had sent the boys over to the Spoons who was across the street. They had lived in the smaller home and they had moved into the bigger one and when they were moved over they found that their house was not as

01:32 well taken care of as it should have been. So they were trying to replace part of the wood and the different things that were in there, while our boys had become friendly with them some of them and They would come over with their little girl and watch movies with us David sent quite a few of the men over to help them get the carpentry and the different work done. And finally, the men came back and told David that they didn't have the money to buy the lumber that they needed so he sent them into town and they bought the lumber that was needed and finished the job of making that home presentable so that they could live in it in comfort but

02:27 Let me ask you another question. A lot of people call in here to River City Talk and also tell us about, they try to use the excuse that about the illegal weapons did you see any in Mount Carmel? Was there any illegal weapons in Mount Carmel that you've seen? Let me explain this. After the people came in from California, many of them had... all of them had positions there. Many of them had very lucrative positions where they came for two weeks and finally decided that they were going to stay

03:09 listen to what David was given because he was giving us very intense deep studies of the scripture. And so now we had to find out some way to keep us all going Henry had come in and was interested, had become friendly with David. He and Karen were interested in the Bible that David was teaching and would sit and listen. And finally he found out that we needed some income of some kind So he told David why he was a gun He sold guns. In fact, he had a shop A gun shop and he sold guns at the gun shows and he said look David There's a gun show every weekend in Texas. He says you never have to go all the state He said why don't you take and have a couple of the boys? learn

04:09 How to do this and I will take them and show them how it is done They can set their they can set up their own sections and sell guns themselves So David decided that they would try that And when they did, they found out that it would be very easy to do because they would not have a nine-to-five job. They would be able to go on the weekends. It would only require two or three men to go there every weekend and so he got into the gun business. So did he have a license to sell guns? He went under... Had his own booths. He went under Henry's license

04:50 see that's how they were going in business together really and so he'd have his own booth and he'd sell his own guns. And, so he began to buy guns not only from Karen and them but from other organizations. We would also while they were there they found out the different men where rather large and they could not buy anything to hold their mags So they started to make these Vests that went on and they could hold their mags when they went out because these men would go out to hunt And they need to carry them some way. We sold MRE's which was what they would bring with them to eat? We saw anything that They would be interested in so we saw all these these What do you call them though things that they

05:45 they usually explode you throw and it may explode. Grenades? Grenades! They, we sold grenades as paperweights with you know we had all these things that would be interesting in a gun show so would you say that David Koresh was doing the same thing that hundreds of other Americans are doing in this United States oh yes not only that I had two or three people come up and say well look Have as many or more guns than you had at your at your house at your place Even when the lawyers told me that okay, that's every time we have a discussion on Waco The lie that was done it Waco. I call it to wake Olai yeah somebody calls in here and says child abuse and

06:38 and they saved the guns. So that's why I wanted to get that out of the way. Well, that's a story on those two items Okay another thing I want to ask you about was Peter Gent He was in the water tower cleaning it and he was shot and he laid there for eight days before they did to him? Well, well the thing is this way The morning of the 28th about six o'clock in the morning Paul and his young son was getting ready to go to a gun show. So they went down and had breakfast, and Peter Jentz was there. And he said the reason he was up so early was because he had been scraping the water tower. We had a huge water tower that you could see from 2491 as you came over the hill. You could look across it, and the water tower was higher than the hill you were on.

07:39 It had not been used for some time, and so he had gone in there to scrape it because it was rusty. And so he was scraping that and he wanted to get out of it before the sun became too hot because it was so hot in there, he couldn't stand the heat. So he started about six o'clock in the morning to scrape the water tower, and when these helicopters came in It must have been terrible for him because the sound must have vibrated in there very badly and he didn't really know what was going on. Apparently, one of the tapes that someone showed me showed that there was nobody up on the water tower during a certain period of the morning but a little later you could see that there was something up there it could be a body that was up there

08:38 He had apparently come up because there was opening up there. He had come through the opening to see what was going on and they, there were snipers all around us. There were snipers in a small house across the way There were snipers up in our barn, which was quite a distance from our main building. There were snipers that had dug into the ground and had built up a place, a foxhole for themselves and so apparently one of the snipers or a couple of them had hit him

09:16 He lay on the top of that and they were not we were not allowed to take him out off that Even though we gave the ATF permission To come in and get their them in They would never give us permission to go out to get the people who had died outside Mark Schroeder, and Jeff Okay about mark the one that I met. I'm sorry as a Jeff they would never allow us to go and get Pittigin's from the tower okay about the branch Davidian That was in the shop six miles away, and it was three of them trying to get back Inside do you know anything? Yes Bob Kendrick

10:07 lived in our shop there and the shop that which they finally called a mag bag was The place where we took automobiles to have them repaired We re-finished cars up at the bond But this was the one that was called the Mike bag. That was down on the road of the junction as you came to Mount Carmel Mark Schroeder had gone down there to help and Norman was there because he was not allowed to come to the camp, because he had left without telling anybody. And finally ran out of money and wanted to come back. David said well you can stay down there but right now you cannot come up to the main house When this when their fighting started it was on radio

11:09 I don't believe they had a television, but they did have a radio down there. And when they finally heard it they decided to come up to the house and be with us Mike Schroeder especially wanted to come up because he was married to Kathy and he had a little boy there He actually started to run and got way ahead of the others and he got up towards our property And I have heard two versions of how he died. One was that he was shot and he hung over the fence, I know he did end down in the gully and uh... He was shot in the back. Actually in the area that I'm talking about

12:00 He was up near the barn and the barn and up in that area there were many shop stewards. Do you know if he had any kind of weapon with him at the time? Not that I know, as far as I know none of them had weapons. Bob might have a gun in case of... We had wolves out there and coyotes and things But as far as the trial it was never anything brought about? No, I've never heard that he had any weapons So he was shot in cold blood? And he was shot in the back And they said that he had ambushed them. Well, how could he have ambushed them if he shot in the back? Anyway... He was face down in the gully and from what I understand there were ATF agents at least one or two that came up found him there. From what they said he could have been alive They put a couple of bullets at least 2 in his head

12:56 When they shot his head it blew his face off and he had no But they would never allow us to pick him up and bury him or put them out of Out of the weather now Norman. I don't know whether he really was hit or not but I know that he gave himself up when he saw what's going on Bob Had come around and he was watching What was going on? He could see that he could not make it into the house So we had a trailer with four elderly women in it over near one of the lakes. That was about two or three miles away Originally tore up is no, no that Bob's this Bob's

13:46 Camper I not a camper. Hey, yeah, I came in here and destroyed this property after the fact is what what? I'm being told Yeah, I saw that that we're gonna put these pictures up that was she that shows Take two pictures Catherine, look at these pictures. Pull through these pictures. Just talk about them? Just talk... Don't hold them up or nothing. Keep them in your lap while I have the camera on you. Yeah okay let me see what... And just look at all of these pictures and tell what you know about the pictures now What you do is hold it up for a second so that I know which picture you're talking about Which picture am I talking about? Okay? You can tell anything you want about any of these Because she'll cover it up won't she

14:37 I think this is... Bob, as i told you went over to the trailer. He was over there for about a week and then he decided to give himself up to the government. He had not even been living at our place for quite a little while because he'd been taking care of this other building actually when he gave himself up here was put in jail but they did release him after the trial, he and Clive. I'm going to hold a picture up this one and it's a picture of Bob's trailer you can see Janet his wife is bent over what you don't see in this particular picture there are other pictures that shows that she was almost

15:30 Thigh-deep in things that have been pulled out of their cupboards, all their storage areas. It had piled up inside and she went in afterwards and tried to sort things out and take anything out that was worthwhile. There wasn't much left some of his brand new clothes and shoes and everything they had had been stepped all over destroyed. I'm also looking at a truck that belonged to belong to Paul and they actually destroyed that truck, such a degree that you can hardly tell it's a truck. Yes it was the all men had motorcycles

16:40 Very expensive motorcycles, some of it. And what happened was they ran over many of them with their tanks The children were very upset when they could see that they were running over their... Go-carts? We had 12 or 15 go carts. The adults as well as the children used them The children had motorcycles, three different sizes of motorcycles for the three different sized children. There was about six motorcycles that they had and each child if David gave his legal son

17:26 something, he gave it to every child his age. The same thing. He went out when we were at Palestine and the children were much smaller he bought little red wagons for everyone of the boys and girls...the boys And every boy that was of age could have a wagon given one that he went out and bought these big dolls about this size for the girls. Beautiful dolls! And he gave every girl a doll There was never any partiality shown Every child there was his child, and I know that they've made a great deal about the things that he said But the problem is people did not understand what he was talking about I'm looking at one of our buses The bus

18:34 was all smashed in. This bus is a, was a bus that you could use on the highway and we all could get into that bus and we'd go swimming down at the lake or we would go somewhere in it And it would hold everyone of us who wanted to go. You see the buses were all smashed in there's no reason for that I understand now that the bus has been fired. Somebody went there and fired the bus and burnt it Our other bus that we had, was a school bus A huge school bus that had been used Had been burnt while it was on the property It was down near the lake Everything was destroyed Our dogs... The first thing they did We have some beautiful animals And their first thing they did Was shoot the dogs

19:33 The dogs had had, the mother dog had four pups that was almost full grown. But she also had another set of puppies and we gave those puppies away to anybody who wanted them after before the fire. Can I ask you something? Yes Why do you think Who did this, the FBI or the ATF? Why did they smash all these vehicles up. This seems unnecessary to me. The ATF. The ATF did this? Yes. It seems like a very unnecessary thing they did here. Vengeful! Some of these cars that were parked out there didn't even belong... This particular bus that I'm showing you now belonged to an elderly lady. I'm trying to think of the name of it and its a Streamline

20:25 Those are very expensive buses. So were the busses worth what, $50,000? That's what I say... Well that was a trailer house. No this is... That's a bus? This was a trailer bus you know one of those motorhomes that was complete in itself she had had that That's what we need. We need music, can you turn it off? Well that's the studio. I'll turn it off! We don't need it on. They're playing a band over here... Let me see if thats coming through the speaker. Every vehicle that was on Mount Carmel was destroyed partially or completely there many of them many other vehicles had bullets holes in them from

21:21 Yeah, I'll talk about the mag bag. The building that I talked to you about where the three men were and the mag bag had been Locked up they locked it up before they left and what happened? They ATF came along and smashed the doors in Ripped it apart the man that opened on the building came down to open the door for them And they said no They ruined the front of the building. There was so much destruction that occurred while they were around, you cannot tell about it all. It was unnecessary... there was no reason to do some of the things that were done

22:15 There was a, we had let's oh the boat. We had a boat and in one was...we had two boats one was David's and one was David Jones' And we used to go down and they would water-ski while both boats have had things done to it so that They could it would have to be fixed Boat trailers the different trailers we had everything Everything on the property had been hurt in one way or another and there were When I came out oh, yes the children's bicycles every everybody had bicycles and the children Were so perturbed when they saw The destruction that went on of their toys in the things that they used. There was absolutely no reason for it well

23:20 The government was trying to say that there was child abuse going on there. I want to get this in, if there were child abuse going on there do you think it's a federal goverment place or the states? Well see there is no...the ATF could not do anything about child abuse This was not in their...they were restricted by what they could do and what they couldn't do. And this was not in their jurisdiction at all, the... There's something I wanted to say now that I can't remember what it was. Just go ahead, she'll cut it off. I'm trying to think about it. What was it I wanted to say? Oh! I also want to put in that when I came out of my room to go see David and then he asked me to leave for the last time

24:26 I came out of there. It was the same because this was after the shooting, every window in the front side of the house had been shot out. They... The bullet holes? No no, the Venetian blinds were hanging on one side and you could see where they had been hit. The glass was all over the floors in different rooms when I went everywhere I looked it was bullet hole as I went down the hallway

25:04 and the roof all over. When I went downstairs, and I went toward the front door during the trial... The door on the right, I believe it was at least one of the metal doors they said had melted or was burned These were heavy melted metal these were heavy metal doors And when I looked at them They had holes coming through the doors and you could tell it was coming, the projectile was coming from outside to inside because you could see where the door had been ripped apart and was being pushed toward the inside. One of the holes in the door I saw was that large at least is that an inch? About an inch and I believe that was a door that disappeared

26:16 Once you go ahead and tell it once you're going to tell a story about what they tried today did you already say that wall ago cuz I'm like when you tried to When they tried to charge you with the Conspiracy to murdering your you had a problem with your right eye. Oh No, I didn't tell that When I was at the grand jury Of course, they knew I'd had four operations on my eyes and But see I had had surgery And one of my eyes was 20-20. The other is not as good, my right eye is not as good as my left. Now when you're shooting, you have to be able to use your right eye and so... Of course they tried to tell me that I couldn't see the helicopters and I couldn't see the firing and all that but we were in a very long room

27:15 I said, there was a man sitting way down at the other end of the room and I told him that I could give them his description if they wanted me to which they didn't ask for. But they could not charge me with firing a weapon because it was no weapon there that could be used in the left eye and not the right and you cannot use a right-eyed weapon with your left eye. It is impossible because I tried to do it! I put it up to my eye, and I could see that you just never could do it but anyway... What about Ruth Riddle? They charged her with murder because she gave somebody a gun? Well she claimed that one of the guns was upstairs And they came asking for a gun Now let me explain this

28:09 that when the shooting started there were very few guns around because they had been taken by Paul to the gun show. Well, they were hunting for guns because they didn't have anything to shoot with and that's when they came up and asked Ruth if there was a gun around? And she said yes and she went got it-she wasn't using it-and handed it to them! Because of that they're given her five years Another thing, after the shooting when they started to look for guns they realized there was none around so they went and there had been a shipment of them and they were all in boxes. Now when you take any guns out of a box there is no mags, there is no ammunition So they had to take the guns out of the boxes get mags and get ammunition They had to go different places I don't know where but they had to go different places

29:12 We never had guns around where the children could get to them or see them. This was a business and David had them in a safe place so the children would never find him, or never come close to it." Do you think that media did a job on the Branch Davidians? Do you think they actually lied?" Well what I saw was...I watched The 1030 News and uh..I found that they were spoon-fed by the government. And if somebody asked a question out of order, in other words one that they did not want to answer or they would not answer they would take this person and... A couple people were brought in another room They were told that they'd taken took all their identification away from them and they were told they could not come back again

30:12 There were a couple, I understand that went to jail. The media realized that they could not say certain things and they were handed what they wanted them to tell in their newscasts and in the newspapers so they were not allowed to give the truth. And apparently there were very few who was going to stand up and try What would you say to a lot of people call this station and particularly my show River City Talk, and tell me the government was 100% right in doing what they did to the Branch Davidians. What would you tell somebody in your own words? Well I'd tell them this...I'd tell them that if this could happen to peaceful group of people who is not uh..in any way

31:15 injuring anybody, arguing with anybody. We kept strictly by ourselves because what we did was study the scriptures If this could happen to a group of people like that... Let me tell you what one lawyer told me He came up to me and he said, You know I have more guns than you had at your place. He said, I wonder if they're coming after me? I said well you never can tell! If they came after us and they came after the weavers, and they have come after many other people that you probably have never heard of. Then surely they can pick anyone out to go after them." So if you feel that this happened and it was a good thing that it happened to us, you better be body careful it doesn't happen to you. Well just remember one thing-the government is the people. And if you don't stand up

32:26 and make sure that the government is doing things the way it should. The wrong people will take charge, and they will do what they want to do for whatever reason they have. It might not be for the right reason but they will certainly try to enforce their way of thinking Had the pleasure to meet Clive Doyle and his mother Edna. Mm-hmm, and we went out to dinner And they let me ask them any question That I could pose to him What is your feelings on Clyde? Clydes the one that Actually jumped out of the building when it was on fire, and he also lost a daughter and did he lose his wife there No He lost just daughter one daughter His other daughter was down in California in our home down there and

33:22 There were other people that came out too, beside Clive. David Thibodeau came out and he came out from the same area that Clive came out. When Ruth came out she came up from the second story and she jumped from a window because the heat was getting so intense she could not take it anymore when she jumped she broke her ankle And actually, she was in such a daze from the smoke and from the CS gas that she really was confused. Actually, she said she did not want to come out. Margie came out from the same section that Rita came out

34:26 But she had 80 degree burns all over her body. She's back in England now. Misty came out, Misty has lost all her fingers she was 16 years old. She has lost all her fingers and the mask was melted to her face There are many stories that could be told about the people inside the ones that came out Not everybody had the same experience, but everybody went through the shooting. Some of them went through a portion of the 51 days and The ones I have mentioned came out from the fire what about the man that? Owned the Brittany Motel and in Waco that let some of those survivors stay there well mark

35:30 saw everything, was actually watching everything that went on at Maokamo. And he felt that it had not been handled correctly so he put us or somebody in the building put a sign out and said let I don't know if it said David or Vernon talk and it was only out there for a few hours and then pulled back in But as the people came out of Mount Carmel, they had no place to go. And the only person that offered them a place was Mark, of Mark Domingue and he said that anyone from there could come in and he would not charge them. I'll tell you one thing if you have had a fire in your home and you come out with nothing

36:31 Appreciate somebody who will give you a place to stay even if it's for a few days But he kept he let us stay as long as we wanted to stay Finally the government came in and tried to shut him down the second time they came back They did shut him down. Let's talk a little bit about the fire and You believe that there's no way that people inside would have committed suicide No, I don't believe anyone in there committed suicide. And the reason why I don't believe it is because David had been told he had broken his back and told him that he'd never walk again but he did. But in the meantime God told him not to commit suicide There was to be no suicide for any reason! He told us that and I know nobody would commit suicide there

37:41 after he had told them that God did not want us to do it. So this is your opinion only, who do you think started the fire? I know this! I don't just have an opinion...I know it Okay, so I'm talking about who do you think started the fire then Well they say well he said uh.. I don't even remember how it was worded but talking about him starting telling them start the fires we had two big compressors This compresses, isn't it? And we would light those up. They were huge and they had to be filled with a liquid so they would burn and we had one in the usually in the place where we had our meetings which was toward the front of the building and one in the dining room because the dining room was a huge room It held 150 people

38:41 and they would put the fluid in, and then they would light it. And this would heat the place. It was mighty cold there quite a bit when they were there for 51 days. So I am sure that they would put the heat on so their children wouldn't get sick from the cold So I know that no one set a fire. What about maybe when the tank smashed into the building, you think that could have set that heater on fire? Well we had... No but we had well I don't know whether that heater would be set on fire or not but i know that we had Coleman lamps that were used and I know they didn't have electricity and we had to put fuel in those

39:34 Well, I burnt my hair on Coleman Lamp so i know that it's very easy to have problems with them. They are not too sturdy and the way they went into that building and tore it apart...they went in everywhere there was a stairway and pushed it so that the stairway could not be used. They rammed the door-the front door They pulled the sides down, especially on the right-hand side. You could see where that building was tipping and both... That building was not a fortress! It was made out of wood from 15 houses that had been standing from 1959 so the wood was very dry David put in a special electrical plug

40:32 So that if we wanted to use a hair dryer, an iron or anything that drew a lot of electricity you had to go to that one spot and use that plug. We were not allowed to use just anything up in our rooms And he warned us He said if this building ever catches fire it'll just go out because the wood is so dry That is one of the reasons why it burned so fast and so hot there. Oh, I was thinking too David Thibodeau was downstairs and his wife lived upstairs with three children And he tried to get... He told how he tried to get up the stairways

41:39 There was absolutely no way he could get up the stairways because they had pushed that whole stairway in as well as all the others. And, he never could climb up them to get where his children and wife were. Actually they were downstairs but he didn't know it because he was at one end of the building and they were on the other. They were in what our refrigeration unit which people call a bunker that had originally been a... Bus? No, it was where you... Cold storage. No no it was where you put your if you have money what do you put in a safe That had been the big safe for the Davidians when they owned the place and it had withstood one fire and they actually expected to withstand another fire because it was so thick

42:45 and well insulated. But that is where the women and children went in they covered themselves with blankets wet blankets, they covered their children and themselves...their heads with wet blankets And when I talked to Dr Crowe...is it Crow? Dr Crowe Yes Anyway when i talked with one of the doctors that had been working with the bodies He said that with them having that over their head and with the intense heat of the fire, they would have steamed themselves. Also when they rammed a building, that long projection that was on one of them went in and hit the top

43:46 this tower? No, no. Where the women and children were. Bunker? Well they called it a bunker. The government called it a bunker? Yeah When it hit the roof of that It had made it collapse And it came down And killed many of them Gave them concussions They tried to say we had hammered We had hit them over their head to kill them. That's ridiculous do you think that in your mind you think the government should be accused of child abuse since they cut electricity off and food spoiled, the music, the lights it couldn't sleep scared children and plus battering with tanks and CS gas Do you consider that child abuse? I certainly do. They did not

44:50 They did not let any of us, David know that they wanted to come in. They didn't want to come in! If they had wanted to come in all they would have had to do was walk up the door and knock on it. David always let anybody in that wanted to come in There would never have been a gunshot fired and there would never have been a fire And they knew that They could've picked David up anytime outside our camp He always went to the different, well he went to town. And he always went to the music stores and he had friends in some of the stores and he'd go there and visit and look for things because he had a band and he was trying to get it started. He was an excellent musician I've never heard anybody play like him

45:56 Can you tell me how long you lived at the Mount Carmel? I lived there over 25 years and i was there when other people were in charge of the place. The message that David had was not something that came out of the blue it followed they messages that have been given since 1843 can you tell me

46:34 What do you feel the real reason the government came after David Koresh? Well, I know many reasons. But I don't have time right now to tell them all Just a basic reason You don't think it was guns or child abuse that's just a cover up Absolutely not, absolutely not You see It was the same thing that happened to Christ in his day He was done away with because Sanhedrin didn't want him around So It's a parallel. Do you think that David did find out the truth behind the seven seals? David gave us the seven seals, he gave us the seven seals for over two and half years in fact in 1985 he started the first sale but the whole Bible was not brought together until later where he gave us all the prophecies that went along with the seven seals

47:46 And the seven seals are for this age, this time. Revelation is for us that's what it was written for The whole Bible was written for this generation not for the generations before Somebody also called in on the comment line and said that David Koresh had many wives and he was also Supposedly had a 14 year old girl. Can you tell us? The story behind that well I didn't know how to answer do I have it was gonna call him back and do I have enough time yes Well David married Married Rachel when she was in her teens, I saw the marriage license like an vouch for that and She had she had Cyrus

48:50 I'm trying to think of the dates now. I'm terrible on dates, but anyway it wasn't too long It wasn't...it was over a year I think that later that she had Cyrus and They were over in Israel for part of the time he thought they thought Cyrus was going to be born over there in February but they came back before we was born and he was born in March and so he was an American citizen He had other wives, but it's like everything else. How many men walking the streets have many wives? If you have sex with a woman or man you're married and you better check your Bible and find out what God says about that if you do this are you have a person that you are going with after you are married and you have sex with them That is your second wife whether you know it or not

50:03 and you are responsible to take care of her as well as your first wife. Even the Mormons know that, that's what they teached, that's what they have taught rather." You see there was nothing that David did that was his own... There was nothing that David did that was on his own everything he did He would wait until God told him what to do. And so when he would say on television or radio, I am waiting on God that's what he was doing! He was waiting on God David did nothing of his own There were many things he did that he did not want to do but God said to do it and he would do it What do you think about Janet Reno?

51:12 Do you think she did a good job in this whole thing? No, I don't. I blamed her completely at first but then i realized that she was not told everything but then I realize it's her responsibility to check on what people tell her She was in a position where she could have checked everything out She was also told that there had been children who had been hurt from the CS gas and she still allowed them to use it. They... Well, I don't want to go into that. Okay if you... Here we go again look over there. Okay if we... If you had a chance to talk to your... What is it? Child? Okay well when you came in here I thought you went and met with the staff. I was going to pick up that board and start putting pictures on it. Okay. If you had a chance to tell the people

52:15 that are still unjustly in prison right now, in federal prison. What would you tell them? Do you mean the ones who were... The ones that the government charged for conspiracy to murder a federal agent and they were found innocent! Well, I wouldn't have to tell them anything because those people that are in jail heard what David told us every one of us He told us that certain things that could happen. He showed us many ways things could end, but he never told us that it would be the way it finally ended. God always has a little extra something that he does I realize and I'm sure everybody else that's been in the in Mon Como realizes

53:21 everything happened because God allowed it to happen that this fire was a signal fire, a signal fire together in the army and what the people did not know they came in with guns. What the government I think did understand and what they should have understood They weren't fighting people They were fighting God This was God's people, this is God's army that is being brought together now. It will not go after the government right away but when David comes back then you're going to see an army of two million people You are going to see an army spring up from all over the world that will take care of all evil in the world

54:32 All the people who want to run things their way. All the people who would not listen if God tried to speak to them I don't feel like i have to go out and shoot anybody, and if they shoot me I could care less! I thank them They can kill me anytime they want to...God is in charge! God wants to save every soul in the world And he's collecting his people

55:09 people that others would not realize. We want to thank you for being here I want to thank you for the opportunity of talking and being able to say what i want to say, I really was not prepared and I'm going to sit down at least get my thoughts in order. I was sort of rambling around I'm sorry, I didn't give it the way we want to thank Jack DeVault for writing this book. The Waco whitewash and many of the things that are the questions that I've asked tonight and the questions in the comments that I made came out of this book

55:50 Well, I met Jack. So many federal agents are out there. Yeah. Talk to Jack DeVault that's where i got my information and also talking to the Davidians that I've had dinner with and I had the pleasure to have dinner with you also Catherine You coming on River City talk because I know you've been on a lot of major media and We're just local media, and we really appreciate it. Well you see everyone should know what happened Everyone I don't care where they are. I don't care. You know who they are God wants everybody to know the truth. I sure feel bad that

56:31 for thinking the way I did before. Well, don't feel bad because you were looking at things from where you stood but now that you've got on higher ground you can understand the truth clearer and this is what is happening all over when I was in at the Brittany Hotel I had men come in and what surprised me It wasn't women that came in and said it, it was men that came in and said it. And not just one of them! And they said you know if I had known what was going on... ...I would have been there. A lot of people? And I realized that a lot of people were in the dock. There were a lot of ATF agents FBI agents

57:26 all different sections of the government who believed innocently, ignorantly. But a lot of them know some of the truth now and a lot of them have changed their mind and that is good! At least there'll be... You know, a person who refuses to listen never can make a good choice But people who have listened to both sides can make a choice that is worth something. And that's why God allowed some of us to come out, so that we could talk for Him and tell what was going on and tell the people that we weren't out to go after them with guns you know? We were using the sword of truth

58:28 Do you think the major media has tuned you out? Well, I haven't really tried. See when i first came out, I did not try. I told my lawyer that he said I had offers and I said I don't want to take any of the offers. I don't want to speak to anybody in fact I stayed out of the picture They didn't see me on anything for a long time. Now in Waco, I had a friend at one of the channels used to come and ask me questions about different things and I'd get on his show but that was not nationwide it did not cover a large area. I really feel that Austin is in the dark of what went on. I talked to many many people here in Austin and they all feel the government did the right thing

59:16 that the rest of itians were wrong David Kresh was wrong and I hope this show will wake them up. Well, there are a lot of dark areas in the whole world whether it's religiously dark or whether its You know civilly dark but like I say There's only one law now and that is listen listen to And you don't have to agree with me. I'm not asking anybody to agree with me, but if I tell you something about the scriptures go and look it up for yourself! Prove it one way or another You are the one that's going to stand on your own and if you're not gonna stand for me then I won't stand for you But I'd like everybody to be informed. Also helpless and so small

1:00:25 17 little children How many names can you recall? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves We become so blind Find the open up your mind I've heard it said The Branch Davidians Only got what they deserved Yet no one seems to know What laws were broken What was in the war and they never served Yesterday, I sold my TV set

1:01:34 Stopped my subscription to the Times To me it's plain to see The media was an accomplice to these crimes Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder why? Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have we become so blind? Will seventeen little children

1:02:36 Finally open up your mind Open up your mind