Jeff Davis(1996 Classic) Historical Interviews With Waco Survivors(1993) [XZ4mR2mXHlc]

00:00 Hello folks, this is Jeff Davis with the legendary Jeff Davis show from Central Texas USA and I love Mike Hanson archives Okay. Peace out baby! Keep watching the classic videos right here on Hanson Archives Waco Archives and the original station Mike Hanson Archives. I just wanted to show you those videos And these videos still have to be uploaded. That's what is taking so long. We have hired somebody to do it and we do have the equipment to do it now, and believe or not this in that Is just over here at one of our offices And all the rest of it...we had at least ten times this Over at the museum So we are busy doing it

01:02 and if you would like to participate in helping with that. We're going to throw an address up there. She's gonna throw the address up there right now, so we would appreciate that and To help the cost of that we are offering my book at $25 Will sign it and send it back to you give us a call at 8 3 0 6 7 2 30 89 and Well, we can take your credit card and put it on the credit card if you want to do it that way. If not you can send us a letter at 901 St Joseph Street in Gonzales Texas 78629 Alright be sure to go to our new channel Waco Archives with all the great interviews We've done over the last 27 years

02:04 Thanks a lot. We're back as we promised, we've got a very special show here tonight. We have with us and will get to him in just a second here couple of surviving Mount Carmel survivors and that were also going to have some footage not before seen at nine o'clock so if you all want come down to ACTV and meet our guest here tonight, you're more than welcome to do that. If you're watching channel 46 on Fort Worth Texas we are being cable cast out of Fort Worth now as well where a non-copyrighted program feel free to use any information on this program for the viewing audience in Fort Worth

02:56 Let me just briefly bring up our guest today. We have first, over here to my left we have a young lady that was actually the one who brought out the tape that Mr. Koresh has to be played on primetime radio Miss Catherine Madison and to my immediate left here Mr. Clive Doyle who spent the whole 51 days in the Mount Carmel facility and if you all don't mind, if you'll just go ahead and kind of I guess give an opening statement or something before we get into some of the specifics? Catherine do you want to give an opening statement or are you just wanting... Well can say I'm glad to be here. I'd be willing to answer any questions anyone asks

03:51 We're very anxious for people to understand the truth and understand the kind of people that were in our home at New Mount Carmel Center. And so, that's about it! How long were you a branch... consider yourself a branch of the Vedian Catholic? Well, I was at Mount Carmel when Ben Roden and Lois Roden were there. In fact, I worked for them so I've been many years at Mount Carmel. It's the reason that I came to Texas from Arizona

04:35 Okay, Clive. You stayed the whole 51 days there you unfortunately and sadly lost your an 18 year old daughter there in Mount Carmel on the day of the fire If you would just if you could just give a little opening statement I'm pleased to be here being on the show before and I'm glad that you invited me back wherever Our concern is that the truth gets out to as many people as possible. We have a real concern for those who are still in prison, being held unjustly and having been found innocent by jury

05:14 If you have any questions on what took place three and a half years ago or, you know, you may have some questions about what's been happening lately. We'd be glad to get into that. Well we're going to get into that! Let's just start from the... Now if there is anything y'all want include that fine but let us start Just briefly with some of the beliefs of the Branch Davidians, time before you became famous so to speak. Unfortunately famous but... Well we take the Bible as our creed We believe that the Bible is basically literal

06:05 both the Old Testament and the New Testament, going to be literally fulfilled. Especially the prophecies that talk about the last days The only thing we do not take literal would be where the Bible uses symbolic terms you know beasts and things like that which have an interpreted meaning Some of our basic beliefs were that the law of God is still in effect. God's people should honor that law, many churches believe it was nailed to the cross but we hold it continues on to this day

06:45 We also believe that... Let me just interrupt for a minute. I also believe that, so I assume then you all don't eat pork and shellfish on Saturday Sabbaths? If God says it's unclean we feel its unclean! Right. He has a reason for it. I agree with him and I've been following them laws about three years myself but go ahead Clive. Another one of our basic beliefs is the fact many of the prophecies of the Bible talk about God intervening in the affairs of men and bringing the world as we know it basically to an end, not doing away with it by devastation but

07:23 inserting his presence into this world and beginning to set up a kingdom. That tells us that in Daniel, and in Revelation that God is going to come down basically and fight against the nations that have fought against His people eventually going to take the territory they have usurped over the years and give it back those of...that He calls His that's been a major doctrine of ours for quite a number of years since the mid-thirties, that God would establish a kingdom big in the Holy Land with Jerusalem. One thing I happen to be a believer in up to a point and that is that the other side of the line, the Antichrist forces will establish his kingdom which I think has already been in place for quite a long time now when we hear talk

08:15 This new world order that right that we talked about frequently on this show And I know that did then I believe that you all have some feelings about that as well. There's just one world system That's being said we've known quite a bit about the overall picture of a one world order. We may have looked at it perhaps differently, not so politically as you all but we've looked at it from a biblical point-of-view and we see beasts illustrated in Revelation that would dominate the world and cause men to receive a mark and obey otherwise they're going to be killed things like that and when you try

09:00 read and study these prophecies, you run into names and places and dates and so forth that back it up in history and in the affairs that are going on world today. I love Mike Hanson Archives! Japanese... we had people from Australia, we had people from England, What's the one near Australia? The little- New Zealand. New Zealand, all over the country I mean Canada we had them from everywhere and like I say there was Japanese Chinese and all different races it was Indian as well as blacks and just about Mexicans They were not just members live together No You know We got along

09:56 that to me... I'm sure you had a little bit of in-fighting. No, there was some disagreement but I've never seen so many different kinds of people get along so well which to me indicates the spirit of God working That's right We had something they came to learn something and what they came to learn and find out was more important than all the quibbling and squabbles and daily little frustrations that might arise because of the situations we lived in they were all solved very readily and without any fist fights or anything like that. Most of the time we got along great. You never saw the men, you'd expect the man to get, when they would really get upset just start wanting a fight none of that women it's very hard for women to live together yeah and yet we all lived together

12:31 that was talking about David. And of course they were giving their point of view, well I went down there and you know...I was trying to read it and then I decided no everybody finishes and then i'll get the paper now go upstairs and read it so I ran upstairs to my room. I didn't stay there very long when I came down everyone had just dissipated going into their own rooms and we hunted around and picked up different sections to finish the art. And as, we had two big windows in the foyer. I was in the far window and as I looked out I saw these vehicles coming in! And I stopped for my room and look out of the second window when I do see that they're coming in and I knew they might go down the road because there's nothing down there. I could see that they were going to stop in front. There are 2 big cattle trailers

13:23 And I wondered what were the men going to do with those? Because lots of times, the men would have something they'd be doing and the women would not be absolutely conscious of everything they were doing at that time. You thought it was branched-to-beard? Oh yes! I thought it was somebody had gone out and got these two big trailers for a reason And so I ran up the back way to my room and I threw the pad on my bed. And I was about to lay down when this terrific noise, I knew it was helicopters and went to the window because I was in the back of building. And I looked out and when I did I saw these three just in V formation. And actually they were heading toward end of the building, the north side and the big water tower

14:12 that was still standing and they were firing. And I know, it was...I just stood there stunned because I couldn't believe this was happening you know it's like looking at a movie and then realizing its reality and they were fighting they were firing at David's room there was no other spot on the building that they could have hit at that particular time And I stood there watching, and I could see the shooting. And I could hear it and knew what was going on. Then they started to turn. Well they were between second and third floor. And I'm on the second floor. And I realized if they start to turn... ...I very likely am gonna get hit! So I got down on the floor as their turning. Of course when they're turning they are not firing until they get around away. Then they started shooting

15:08 Now there was no shooting before that and then apparently I figured by the time they got to the front of the building, that's when all the shooting started in the front. But they had already hit our water tanks and killed Peter Jan? No, no. It was Winston Blake that was on his bed with a piece of toast in his hand and it had gone through the water tank and went into his room Jane was up on her bed She had the second tier And she was on the second floor down from my room and she had just given her baby to her older daughter when she got shot in bed

15:55 And after that, it was shooting. And everybody hit the floor! All the women took their children and put them under them. I kept thinking they're going to come over that roof... If i had come in and attacked a place, That's where I would have come. It was most vulnerable spot because that roof was only about three feet at the most to the bottom of the window And the windows were open. And I thought, where our rooms were and then went along the hallway and I thought surely somebody's going to try it so i kept looking at that and they kept yelling at me to get down because one of the girls that was doing the scratch on my head to get down said you're gonna get hit because she could feel a bullet go through her hair and she is laying on the floor how did he get here? I don't know

16:53 That's what was going on at that particular time. Nobody moved, even when I left the women were still on the floor with the children because we had no idea whether they were gonna come back or not and they kept it up for about 45 minutes. I love Mike Hanson Archives! And of course the government have put out this idea that we are expecting this attack or this siege, and that we were all busily arming ourselves and waiting in ambush for them when they drove in. Just recently the insurance company out of Atlanta for the Cox newspaper, Senegut paid off the ATF

17:42 court case they had against the Waco newspaper and the local TV station on 10, they were suing them saying that they had tipped us off and we knew they were coming and we were prepared for them. And so to take you back a little bit further We actually knew that something was going on two months before February 28th, but we didn't know who was involved and we didn't know what it was all about. All we knew is there were some men that had moved into the house across the street that were acting very strange. They were shooting in the backyard of their house

18:24 The windows were always dark at night even though we knew they were there. A lot of strange things going on, they didn't bring any suitcases with clothes and things like that so we kind of felt that perhaps being... I think probably the biggest idea that came to most people's mind was maybe they belonged to the immigration people trying to see if it was any illegal immigrants inside And so this went on for almost like six or seven weeks. And at some point in that observation that they were doing, they made contact by a couple of them came over and visited one day and eventually it led to this ATF agent which we found out what he was later by the name of Robert Rodriguez who said he wanted to start having Bible studies with David Koresh

19:17 So he started to come over and visit for a couple of hours, maybe have a private Bible study with David. On the day before the raid, he had spent the whole day with us. He'd come over on a regular basis so we had regular meetings and he'd spend the whole day At the end of the day, he indicated that he had to leave town. But when he got back after several days... He wanted to move in with us if he could, if he'd be allowed so that he could have more studies and kind of just enter into the whole thing we were involved in as you know, The Daily Living and the Bible Studies So David welcomed him, says fine Unbeknownst me on the 28th As Catherine mentioned

20:07 He shows up that morning with the second edition of this series that the newspaper was writing about us, or about David called The Sinful Messiah. He had come out there with copies of this and as I said I didn't know he'd even show up that day because I wasn't expecting him to come back and it was only probably because it was raining that day most of the guys had not gone to work we'd had breakfast basically were hanging around our rooms When at some point, I'm not real sure of the time. It couldn't have been too much later than when Robert left, I guess...I heard some noise out in the cafeteria area

20:54 a lot of people. There was kind of hubbub going on, so I went out there to see what was going on and it was at that point where people were saying well we've just heard something's going to happen somebody is coming and about the time I walked in became aware of this going on, David Koresh walked in from the other side into the kitchen area and basically confirmed that he just heard somebody was coming out. He said I want everybody to stay cool Just go back to your rooms and I'm gonna go down at door and talk to them

21:30 And so I went back to my room, he went out the other way down the hall toward the front door. The next thing that I heard was David's voice at the front door saying hey wait a minute there are women and children in here you know let's talk about this and all hell broke loose just shots it seemed like hundreds of shots coming in from the outside in through the front door and my immediate reaction was, my God it's a massacre. Whoever went to the front door is bound to have been hit with all this fuselage of bullets that had come through. So I went running down the hall and first person I came to was Perry Jones who had

22:12 himself up the hall, several feet anyway from the front door area and he was screaming that he'd been shot and he was clutching his stomach. And so I bent over him and tried to console him you know? And I says what happened? He says Well they started shooting at the front door. He says that David got shot out, I said hang in there for a minute and I ran down to the front door expecting to see bodies all over the place and to my surprise there wasn't anyone there! The whole foyer area inside the front door was empty but the wall, the front wall was just riddled with bullets and some of the windows had been shot out so I ran back to Perry and helped him back into his room

23:00 put him on a bunk bed, went and got him... tried to get him some pain pills because he was just screaming with the agony of the wounds he had. And somebody came to me about time I put down on the bed and they says well Winston's dead, Winston Blake. I said where is he at? He was up in his room so I went up toward his room And I could hear all this water running and thought, that's strange. What's causing that? As I rounded the door into his room Winston was laying on the floor in a pool of blood and water. All this water was pouring through these holes at an angle into the room. The bullet holes were high on the outside as they came in. I thought my God they're shooting from helicopters or planes

23:50 So just, it was turmoil. I mean there's chaos and people screaming and then... And then I end up running back down the hall and he was in the process of dialing 911 by the time I got down the other, bleeped the other end door from where I was staying. He was calling the Sheriff's Department and it took him 45 minutes to get a ceasefire Well, excuse me. 45 minutes to get in contact with the ATF he didn't even have a contract with them took about two and half hours to get the thing stopped by that they found out we had five on the inside dead another four or five wounded

24:37 Because we were beginning to hear on the radio by that time, and we knew they were wounded on the other side too. You know, the ATF But throughout that shootout I mean there was a lot of firing at the beginning and then it was more sporadic for the rest of the time Lots of armored vehicles moving back and forth outside the building, knocking holes in it. We have not seen any of the Branch Davidians and we have not seen any federal agents anywhere in any of these pictures. Most of these are on our big lens cameras

25:15 can shoot over that two mile area. Hello folks this is Mike Hanson here on uh Mike Hanson archives on YouTube and here on my Facebook and we're here at the 25th anniversary of the memorial service here in Waco, Texas and we got Clive Doyle here can you tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are on the 25th anniversary? Here it's It's all right, everybody knows you. It's kind of hard to get my daughter just died there. That's what I heard and we didn't put it out on the internet because this is first time people are out here on my- A lot of them don't know yet.

26:16 That was your first daughter died at Mount Carmel and this was another daughter. This is my oldest daughter, she's the youngest that died in the fire. Karen was coming down had her plane booked she was coming down for the memorial. Ended up dying in a head-on collision with a drunk driver People up in Pennsylvania saying that it was deliberate, it wasn't an accident. Tried to run a cop off the road first and I guess the cop avoided it. Tried to run down another woman then she avoided it. Karen was third in line so they say she died instantly which is

27:15 At least she didn't suffer too much. But seems like every year there's a few more that'll go. Yeah, it's just not many left. Clive I'm so sorry for all the stuff that has happened to y'all and hopefully it will get better but you always say its gonna be better- It will get worse before it gets better Well once we're gone here maybe. Well, KRLD called me this morning. Well, what do you think the government's learned in 25 years? I said nothing except don't have the press that filming everything. There's Desi okay well we're getting ready to start what who do you got speaking this year Phil Arnold James Tabor I believe Catherine Wissinger

28:14 Mary Lindborn wants to say a little bit. Oh good, I can't wait to see her. It's a lot of people. Alright well we're getting started here folks hope y'all can make it here for the 25th anniversary and what is the address? If they could still make it. 701 Jefferson Waco Texas. Hope to see you here folks. I'm kind of tired of listening to the outside world tell me what it was like when I agree, yeah. I can completely see where that would come in How do you feel about the hearing? I had some hopes going into the congressional hearings since I appeared up there That at least the truth would come out Those hopes were dashed basically because of we saw the politics involved in both the Congressional hearings and the Senate hearings one side playing

29:13 devil's advocate and so forth. Even when facts came out, and individuals were exposed you might say as either perjuring themselves or admitting to certain things nothing was ever done about it and it certainly didn't help our friends who are still in prison And so, I'm a little upset. Hi Sheila! 25th anniversary of what happened how are you? Right here tell them to come on down we still got time it's live. What do you think about the 25th anniversary real quick before we go in? Sorry that it is still 25 years and sorry that its taking so long We want to get home

30:00 change all this. Amen! You don't have to think about people being dead. Yes, and look at all this food you brought us. You got everything? Well we still got time to get here April 19th 2018 what time is food 1230 quarter one whatever one o'clock okay All right come on park your car and come on in. Thank you doing it for the children, went in there and destroyed your home. Yeah they were saving them. And then they buried up the evidence They saved them with a sea of gas You know? Yes, saved them They wanted to make sure that I took care of them and they took care of them alright. Wow! And they took care of everybody else there Let's go ahead and try another one Another call here There is one thing though that i'd like to inject That many other people... ...that were there fighting Fighting us Were very ignorant at what they we're doing

30:55 It's the people that were running it. You mean the VATF, the actual soul? A lot of them were new and they didn't know what was going on They'd been trained to do a certain thing and so they did it because they thought they had to do it And you're on the payroll Yes but you see its just like somebody is told something and they don't know what the law is They can be told it then feel like have to do it The thing is they don't have to But you see these people, these young people that were put in, they didn't know what they were doing. The ones that got up there and spouted all this...these lies, absolute lies and they knew they were lies

31:41 They're the ones that are more responsible. They're the ones that God looks down at and is disgusted with, and gonna take... give them a second double portion. Let me go ahead an read it, Kathy. Let's see we want to do it like this or? Well just... Okay let's go ahead okay tell us about the concrete room that the children were in for safekeeping and tanks went smashing into the walls, collapsing on children. Was that how the children were killed? In this market... Yeah follow up. Are you inserting gas into the bunker or into the school bus, into the underground areas where he was sitting? My question is have we put in gas in the bunkers and into the school bus yes we did what we tried to do was deprive them of use as a means of escape away from the building Yes sir

32:33 His Camaro with all 427 cubic inches is still in good shape. He was very concerned about that yesterday, in fact that was probably the most violent that he's acted in the 52 days... how many is it? 51, 52, 51 days that we've been here but we treated it with care The question is, is there a point where the gas fills up and does become lethal? Not in the dosage levels that we're using. The question was what's the status of children. We do not know if they have gas masks as well

33:12 But we have gone to extraordinary steps to ensure that the dosages being utilized are well below medium lethal ranges. That the dosages being utilized are well below the medium lethal ranges of CS gas. We would not use dosages that would harm those children, nor would those dosages cause death to their lungs or other types of injuries. There's been some unfortunate reporting talking about that if tear gas were utilized, it would deprive the children of oxygen and it perhaps could be fatal. ...into the walls collapsing on the children was that how the children were killed? Well that is what Crow told me when we were there was quite a few us at the Brittany Hotel

34:04 And that's what he said, they poked the hole in the building and went into this cement building that was very thick. They bent our refrigeration where we had our refrigeration and knocked down their roof pot of the roof which came down and hit the children and the women that were there. And he said a lot of them had been hurt by that, and died. I hope you're enjoying the classic videos here on Hanson Archives. Just wanted to take a moment to tell you

36:30 You're on air. LMP, hear me? Yes sir! I had a question about one little blurb that was on national TV and it was about David was studying the seven seals and they come up with the first name I ever heard. And I was wondering did you all know anything about that? Yes we did. Yeah, David's given us his seven sails He instructed him to give them the seven sails but uh... The thing is none of us can give the seven sails when you do not have the same spirit he had over the negotiating phones David had told the FBI negotiators that God had spoken to him and asked him or given the go-ahead To write out a brief explanation of the seven seals which The negotiators had sent in supplies so that he could go ahead and begin that Project, and he did indeed get started on it. The night before

37:33 The gassing. They had told him he could have all the time he needed and the very next day they started ramming the building with tanks, injecting us and so the project was never finished we do have a portion that he did right one of those women that survived the fire came away with a disc computer disc with the portion that he had gotten finished and would be quite quite willing to send it to you if you want to contact us. We'll give you an address later on as to where you can write. Do we have another call on hold? It's been waiting for a while, just a quick question or comment because I want to get into the... Hello, how are you doing?

38:15 Yes, ma'am. You're on the air. How are you doing? I'm doing fine. I wanted to call and thank Clive and Catherine for being on tonight We really appreciate this. We knew from day one our family that ATF was responsible number 1 for this Janet Reno every one of them were behind it And I wanted to thank them for being on tonight. I think teaching the American people and coming out with the truth more people need to know about, you know myself my family our friends we all noticed We were devastated by it and didn't believe any of the lies being told to us. So I want to call up say thank you so much for coming out. Thank you for your support God bless you too. Very glad to be here

38:57 before we get for we take that break though i wanna ask you offer i want to just get this in kind of quickly because it's the last part of the show i wanted into like said yet you have current people now they're getting beaten these presence that's why do we want to get into something uh... as far as what i would like to see done for indictments for the tank drivers all the way up to the people who gave me orders could be people are not being held accountable for but i consider to be murderous act until that time i wanted I'm going to ask you about the 51 days. Okay, first off just quickly because this is the one question everybody asks me and I've even forgotten the good response why didn't y'all come out?

39:39 First of all, there was a certain amount of trepidation. When the ATF evacuated after the shootout... There's quite a bit of fear you might say on the part of people that were in there expecting them to perhaps wait till nightfall and come back in and attack us Of course you know they were supposed to have been relieved by the FBI at the end of that day and from that point over the negotiating phones we were being told even though they wanted everybody to come out, they did not want us all just coming out in all directions because they had the place surrounded. They had sniper nests all over you know in various localities and apparently had a hard time contacting these people. They weren't all on their phones or whatever so if...we would be

40:37 setting ourselves up perhaps to be shot if we just all came out, as I say it out of any exit or at any given time. So I was given understand that it all had to be set up over the phones underneath the compound but gas will permeate those areas as well so again its not...we're not anticipating they are going to flow out in any second right now but it has been quite substantial yes sir I'm not surprised. I think you have a totally fanatical committed group to David Koresh We believe that there's a hardcore group They're all heavily armed they're all firing at our vehicles when they do appear

41:24 Those who are weak, we believe that they're surrounded with firearms and probably are not being allowed to leave. Those who are totally loyal to Koresh is going to have to require extreme discomfort, we believe and probably a signal from Mr. Koresh that now it's the time to get out of here. Yes, time to get out of here yes. Can you show us where on the map Well, I can't show you all because we are virtually surrounded. over the negotiation phones being told that even though they wanted everybody to come out, they did not want us all just coming out in all directions because they had the place surrounded. They had sniper nests all over you know in various localities and they apparently had a hard time contacting these people. They weren't all hooked up by phone or whatever and so we would be

42:19 perhaps to be shot if we just all came out, as I say, out of any exit or at any given time. So I was given an understanding that it had to set up over the phones and for several weeks people were coming on a regular basis there was over 30 people who came out of there as a result of negotiations that were going on being setup Me personally, I felt that women and children would be first maybe the elderly The guys would be the last ones, so I was quite prepared to stay until my turn came you might say. Everybody that was in there had their bags packed and we were fully expecting to come out

43:01 As a result of the treachery on the part of the FBI team that were on the ground, the tactical team seemed like every time we came out or every time they complied with what they asked us to do. We would be punished in some way. They would destroy something and threaten and cut off our electricity. They were playing music you know, the bright lights and so forth. Everything that would seem to be done negative when we complied with what they wanted So there came a point where everybody just basically forget it You know I mean We either all come out together or not at all sort of thing And it was kind of stand up

43:44 that's the feeling on the part of the people as individuals. On the other hand, we also had a religious situation that a lot of people don't understand and that is God had told David to wait they had not complied with his request to play the tape that Catherine brought out in prime time That was the agreement They didn't play it in prime time Probably very few people in this country heard at all And so... God told David to wait and we waited as I say partly for an indication or some kind of sign from God, a green light. And that green light came when David was instructed by God to begin writing the seven seals but the FBI were impatient on April 19th

44:36 the road negotiators telling him to take his time and write this out, then everybody would come out. They just decided to come in with the gas and demolish the building I don't know whether you got the footage tonight but there's one footage where it says that their aim was to isolate us all in pockets the morning, they'd pretty well done that. Those of us who were in the chapel were not able to go down to those who are in the kitchen area and upstairs we're pretty well blocked off from getting up and downstairs because they were demolished by them so forth It's probably a lot of people that would have liked to got out of the fire once the fire started That were unable to we know for a fact that there were people that came out on the offside from the camp where? The media are not available To take pictures who was shot and they were trying to say what I'd come out so the bottom line is you really didn't trust We didn't trust the government. Yeah, he hadn't shown given us any reason to trust these jurors were

45:33 by the government's own stemony about what happened at Waco to the branch of Indians. Now understand, this is after the trial is over. The newspaper publishment and in this particular story it's the Associated Press is asking the jurors what do they think? What comments did they have? They were just fit to be tied, it turns out that those tanks that we watched on the day of the assault, the final assault when there was a big fire and everything. Those tanks that we watched on television were not just poking holes in the wall to insert gas into the structure this is a Reds occupied by men women and children yet those tanks that we saw according to this trial testimony, the government testimony

46:24 ordered to penetrate this residence occupied by men, women and children. The strategy- the government's strategy as described at the trial by the government itself was to bring this structure down This is a residence occupied by men, women and children Our government that it supposed to be based on ideals of freedom and liberty of sprawl our government instructed its gun agents to commit to tanks and rolled the tanks right into a structure that's occupied with women. And as a result, some of the children that we were supposed to hold the government was saving died as the structure came down and crushed skulls they die from blunt force on their skulls It's like this

47:18 For people who are, how come there's a militia movement that is growing in this country? Well you know it used to be I'm over 50. I was 52 and just had a birthday just recently And we used to use the phrase up in arms as sort of a metaphor It was kind of a joking metaphor People are up in arm about this or that But when you have a government that orders its agents to get into tanks and run those tanks through residents occupied by men, women and children. And then there are no indictments of the tank drivers, there's no indictment of the people who ordered the tank drivers There is no indictment of any high officials The truce has broken down and the fray up in arms The people are up in arms

48:05 is the only thing that's left for them as a reality instead of it being a metaphor. So yeah, you have a growing militia movement because they never admit that isn't technically violating the Constitution or technically creating injustices. We have a government now, that does it in a big way, does it on television doesn't even get to sweep under the rug. It dies at trial That what it did was order its agents to get into tanks and run the tanks through residents occupied by men women and children And there are no indictments of any of these people At the very least, be indicted for murder if not murdered. We haven't had that and that's why you have a militia movement that is growing in this country. They see government that may... depending on which aspect of the militia you ask there are going to be different things with them and we won't agree with them on this issue or that issue but one point that we can all agree on is you cannot have a goverment

49:06 that just arbitrarily kills people, runs tanks through houses. Not even have the agents who drove the tanks fight it. You cannot have that. At that point there is no more choice you have to put on arms! You have to be ready to deal with that government in the same way its dealing with innocents Now I'm not advocating that we raise an army and go storm Washington DC No, this is not a question of going and invading. This is a question of people feeling the need to be ready to protect themselves with deadly force if they have to against government that has gone outlawed. So the Branch Davidians say you've been treated in a way that no human being should be treated let alone people on American soil. This is an outring

50:01 this cannot be allowed to stand. I am very pleased that Jeff Davis has been pursuing this in public access TV, this isn't an issue that's going to be pushed by the establishment media This is Terry Liberty Parker hardcore libertarian in Austin Texas Branch Davidian to join us. Clive, we're honored here to have your mother. Yeah this is Clive Doyle's mother and the us that know these people we call her Grandma Edna. Grandma Edna do you have any opening statements or comments you'd like to make to the viewers of the program tonight?

50:53 Well, I just hope that the people of America will wake up to know that they've got a government that's running this country without to destroy those who don't go along with them. And the one at Waco is not the last you've seen it. It's going to continue on until God comes down and finishes the work himself So, I want to just... you ought to comment on that. I would agree with everything she said there that there is a government in place now that is out to destroy anybody who's righteous or... Haven't they proved it? Yeah! Well, that what the scriptures teach That's right There are powers that wanna do away with God's people They wanna persecute make war on them and unfortunately the scripture predicts that they will overcome and kill him for period of time

51:40 until the judgment sits and God intervenes. And then in the end we win, or the righteous people win. It says that the kingdom will be given to the saints In fact I also heard you my first introduction to you Edna was on a Day 51 video and I think you were sitting there with either probably Woody Kendrick or one of these people maybe I've got it confused now Somebody asked somebody, one of the Davidians about do you think Jesus is coming soon? And you said... They were in front of the courthouse after the trial was over in Clare. and somebody was saying Do you think David will come back here the sooner the better? Well actually I'm still saying that and asking God please hurry up and send David back and put an end to all this terrible violence evil ruling this world and nobody seems inclined to want to stop it that's the pity of it all people are just sitting taking it

52:32 Who started the militia in this country? Bill Clinton. Because he sits in a position where he brought about a position where people are afraid so they take up arms for self-defense, why shouldn't they? Who wants somebody bashing in their home and kicking things around and just stand to it. No way, no home anyway. Grandma do you have any thoughts about this? We hear rumors about this new world order that... Sure there's a new world order! The devil is going to bring one in which is coming almost into existence now and God has got one which is far better and that's the one I'm waiting for. I don't want anything to do with Satan or the people who let him use them

53:17 I agree. I think she did a fantastic job. God bless the Republic! Death to New World Order!!!