Found Master Tape Steve Lane Investigates Coverups And Truths Of Waco, Tx Murders(Classic 1998) [BCzZPNlHHHc]

00:00 This is Steve Lane in Reedyville, Tennessee and I love my Canson Archives. I hope so! Adam Jones here...I've had two wonderful hours of sleep last night and we're going to Waco And then of course tonight i'm gonna edit for about eight hours then get up at seven o'clock tomorrow So this is the enjoyment of life endless warfare and cold beer drinking That's our secret. No, I'm just joking all right This is the freedom report we're cruising on an m-class star freighter in Alpha Centauri quadrant that's the gaseous clouds of Cirrus Delta Quadrant 14 niner I'm Alex Jones this is the freedom report and

00:57 We're traveling, myself and Steve Lane and many others to Waco to the scene of the April 19th 1993 butcher massacre of Clinton. The impotent a Murder squads went in and destroyed that building they can get away with almost anything now here in this nation It's going to take people getting involved and being conscious of this information And being willing to put it on the line To put on the armor right out against the enemy because there's nothing like smashing plus-built bureaucrats heads in we'll be right back I love Mike Hanson archives Hello folks, this is my cancer. Do I have a treat?

02:11 Who remembers Steve Lane with the Freedom Report? He used to do Alex's TV show. Okay, here we go! There we go how long has it been? That's Steve Lane! It's been a long time come on I'll put it on you know I'm on What am I on now? On Info Wars, Band.Video Hope you're watching all the videos that i'm putting up it's a lot of work yeah cost me about $800 a week to do that so we do need help out there well only about 100 pounds. I thought he was smuggling some Mexican midgets across the border okay now how did...okay

03:00 I'm doing segments here. Okay, now we're going to go back to the future with Alex Jones what do you think about that? Oh it's interesting! We'll see on the next break folks... We were just here at the fifth annual Waco Remembrance a lot of people were here there were a few government agents there soft-soaking and selling their government line The same old lies, the same old information. More and more of the facts are coming out We just got done eating here on the Brazos River in Waco And there's a lot of good people A lot of people that just want the truth to come out about what happened Here in Waco Texas in 1993 On April 19th It is also a shame that this day on April 19 was 95, the Murrow Federal Building

03:53 where government black ops, secret squads according to General Partin and many others went in and destroyed that building. You see it would have been too damaging to our government if they had Waco in the psyche so they had to offset by another terrorist act I know this is stunning information but I've documented at least a thousand times and many others have too like Frederick Whitehurst ex-head of FBI crime lab Ted Gunnarsson, ex-FBI chief in California. And I don't want to repeat the same things over and over but The answers will always be the same tyranny has an appetite for power and corruption Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely Those that have the appetite for power and the will that consumes them are capable of incredible despotic feats of Despotism let's not let this happen again

04:45 But I assure you it will happen in the future. Americans are laying down far too much, it's going to take a renaissance of information to bring forward the truth here at our age. This is April 19, 1998 five years after the murder of children and we were just reading The Austin American Statesman it never talks about the children it talks about David Koresh being some sort of cult leader Of course the media doesn't want to discuss Waco rules of engagement I was surprised that it was nominated for an Academy Award but of course didn't win

05:21 We're coming out here to help keep the memory alive of the butchery, the murder. Because Bill Clinton was insecure and wanted to flex his muscles and the BATF wanted more funding they wanted to raise the American people's consciousness about cults and out-of-control organizations of this nature so they surrounded the place opened fire with helicopters and then 51 days later set it on fire, sent hit teams inside and murdered the people. Those that tried to escape were machine gunned from outside only a couple of people got out alive and that's because they came out the front where they had cameras

05:59 We're fixing to show you everything out there and get a lot of important interviews. This is the Freedom Report. Mike Hanson and others put together a bus trip for us to come here, actually this is my first time here. So are y'all out of Austin then? Yes yes Why are ya'll her today? I'm here personally because I want to educate myself more about what happened here. I'm not really as informed as a lot of people are about the attack that oc it was important to come for myself and meet the p and get a more rounded edu than what I think, what we mainstream media sources.

06:40 It's the same thing. One of the things that we do at the conference is, We try and expose corrupt government and educate people about what's really going on in the world I think because of the soundbite nature of mainstream media individuals don't get the type of education that they should to make informed choices And we try and get them more pertinent information so they can make better informed choices Okay, do you think that what happened here wasn't... I couldn't make-I didn't really formulate an opinion here. And what happened was a libertarian friend of mine made the point that regardless if there were laws being broken here if there are illegal weapons being stored here that sort of thing how can justify killing all those women and children? You can't! Regardless of what might have occurred before the ATF and FBI arrived

07:35 You can't justify killing women and children like that. Those babies weren't shooting anybody, and there were unborn babies who died here." That to me was a very valid point, and that's why I think it is important this type of information gets out so people start asking those same questions. It doesn't matter if they were in there running a slave operation how can you justify killing babies? And you can't! Hello folks, it's Mike Hanson here with Mike Hanson archives and guess who we got Steve Lane Tell us yeah. Well tell us where you're at now and what you would use to do it Alex Battery damnit okay go ahead

08:23 No, well no. Well I live in Reedville Tennessee now and my wife and i have started a small farm here also build houses for living but slowly working my way out of that. While you're talking I want to go around get your dogs there yeah that's four of our dogs we've got two Australian Shepherds which are herding dogs and then two livestock guardian dogs Great Pyrenees and one that's Akbosh. They're nice big guardian dogs, but anyways I used to co-host a show with Alex and then went on to host the show by myself. And sometimes would sit in for Alex under... What year? Oh gosh! That was like 1997, 98? Mid to late 90s yeah. 96, 97, 98. So... And I got it and folks we got a bunch up on this channel that you're whatever channel You're watching I got a bunch of stuff with Steve up there with Alex. Yeah thats true Ed. Then i would sit in for him sometimes on his shortwave show

09:24 And I want to say one time, maybe even on the FM. Well, I know I guest call in on the FM all the time but sometimes they did some Instagram stuff with me. Did you know Sammy already died? Yeah! Alright, well it's too bad I like fighting good folks to spar with Bob Cole is not too good to fight with so but we're southeast of Nashville maybe about an hour and It's actually snowing the snow up here. Yeah, that's awesome. No there was no That's about the only snow i'm gonna see in this year probably just missed it We had eight inches all really five days ago, so um, but any rate we

10:07 So small farm, regenerative farming rotational grazing stuff like that. Small by Texas standards it's 25 acres so I mean there are subdivisions in Texas with bigger lots than that but... It was big look big when i came up here we're proud of it and for those of you in texas is a lot like hill country here way more trees Look at my brand new shoes already Look at those $70 shoes. I offered him a pair of boots for a few... No, it won't be here that long! I gotta get back to Texas Yeah It's real muddy right now because it's as much job site right now as it is farm Because we're turning a forest We're restoring it to the native grasslands and so yeah, it's really muddy right now And during the next break we are going down an look at that

10:49 Now, you know what I say all the time? We're gonna go back to the future. 1990s Alex Jones is something to be seen! Didn't you like it? I loved Alex in the 1990's he was so good. So...I got so many thousands of tapes Steve. You know that we did that we figured out we did over 2,000 live shows in 15 years. I might have done 30 of those maybe. So actually a CNN producer contacted me about two months ago trying to get into Alex's AXS TV days

11:27 And I encourage her very strongly to speak with you and Jeff Davis because I don't think Jeff like influenced Alex in the sense of like Alex copied him but that Creative tension those they're totally opposite enemies. I'll tell you about that when the cameras go the creator still love you, Jeff They had some great creative tension that I think made each other better. And so I told that CNN producer, people overlook that and I said you really need to spend some time talking to Jeff and seeing the influence I think Jeff had on each other. Okay, we're going to do another set in four minutes. We'll see ya next break! Now let's go back to the future with Mr Alex Jones

12:13 Steve Lane just got done talking to the media. I certainly hope they play his comments in full, but that's the main problem with the instant media is they have to have little sound bites because everything is just regurgitated back to the public so I think Steve Lane doing a good job talking to people out here. I want to go try and get some interviews with a producer of Waco Rules of Engagement if we can do that and talk with some lawyers This is Steve Lane with the Freedom Report. We're here at what used to be Mount Carmel, or I guess it still is Mount Carmel but where the facilities used to be here in Waco and we're standing here with Catherine Madison who's going to give us a tour of the site this is all new to me I've never been here before never studied the site in any detail and I'm looking forward to Miss Catherine showing us around

13:05 Hey, Miss Madison. I really appreciate you taking the time out to show us around because this is my first time here and i really don't know very much about what happened out here and this is more of an educational trip for me than anything and uh... into see it for myself into hear what happened from people who were actually involved generation how far off the road they were after how far ago back about how part was that say one hour apart up oh miss madison could Could you speak about how far the house is from the main road? Any guesstimates there. Well this road goes on a curve and ahead of us is the curve, and the house has started right where that second telephone pole is

13:56 Extended down the road and there were about 15 houses here at one time To your left down here. You're going to see all the trees that were planted for the People who died in the fire and each one has a marker on it telling The name of the one other people No, it's just a memorial they are buried another places I To your right down in front of us way down there. That is the bus that we had originally We used to all be able to get in there and go where we wanted to go as a group It looks like it's been burned I don't know when it was burned, but it was perfectly alright when we left and There has been all kinds across the

14:47 different tanks when it's to the front of it. When you look at, you'll see that that has been caved in But the rest of it was in good shape. And you actually were in the house during the initial attack, is that correct? Oh yes I was there. How long were you there? I was there until the attack was over. See they called a troop so that they could have pick up their men who had been hurt and take others... You're speaking about ATF? ATF! When it came time for us to pick up our people, they wouldn't allow us to do it So were there injured branch Davidians outside then you were saying that you weren't able to go? Oh yes, it was. Were they not able to receive medical attention of any type or... No Mike! Or were these branch Davidians that had already been killed? No Mike had come down from what they call the Meg Bag that's so far on the other road down there Yeah I saw that, that was demolished Well it wasn't demolished

15:51 The man had the key to the piece of property, but what happened they decided to ram it. They rammed the door in and we had cars there that were being fixed And to be clear about this, she's speaking of a building and we're going to tape this later. We're talking about a building that is approximately 8 miles from the site here and it was my understanding that it was at the ATF or FBI? It was the ATF actually pushed this building over and you just, all you say was that you had some cars that were being worked on there? They pushed the door in and the man who had the key said I will open the door. And they said no...they rammed it Were they trying to get inside for some reason? I have no idea what their reasoning is but we used to fix cars down there and it was three men that were down there one of them was Mike

16:52 And he came in and he tried to get in this way because his family was here. They shot him, see they were sharpshooters that had dug holes made it so that they could shoot in any direction. These were trees planted in memoriam of all the individuals who died inside the fire, is that correct? And these are all marked. They're all have plaques. You'll notice here... Now see this is something that bothers me Catherine what occurred inside this house before the ATF got here. Truthfully, I don't even know what occurred afterwards but one of the hardest things that I have... The biggest problems that I have with what occurred here is there were so many women and children who perished here and regardless it seems to me that... Well men perish too! Yeah it matters not to me what laws could've possibly been broken

17:50 Women and children, and men died. I mean how can you justify killing babies? And unborn babies it matters not to me and i noticed that the first gravestone we walk up here yes that was one of the age one-and-a-half that was one of the twins now two people who might be watching this tape that did that I mean I've heard a lot of criticisms of some other branch Davidians To you people that are being critical of the Branch Davidians, you justify to me... How can you justify killing a child that's a year and half old? I have an eight month old at home. And..I can't... A child that is a year and half old cannot shoot people They cannot commit crimes how can you justify killing them in the name of law? They killed them because they wouldn't come out They killed him See when they first came here They were going to kill

18:43 They were going to kill everybody. And the first thing they did was fill David's room full of holes, but David didn't happen to be in there and I'm sure they figured if they killed David then they could get the rest of us It was not to their liking that we came out was not to their liking at all. Stay tuned right here for more classics! Okay folks we're back here with Steve Lane co-host with Alex Jones in the 1990s and he wanted to show us his pigs I want to get a close up if you look off in the distance, we do something called rotational grazing We have 11 actually 13 total American Guinea Hogs...we'll show you the boars here in a little bit but they're in that

19:30 temporary fenced-in area and we move them once a week. It's hard to tell now, but once this is converted to grassland this breed of pig actually grazes. Right now we run them up in the woods and they eat acorns and hickory nuts and stuff like that American Guinea hogs were almost extinct in the 1930s but they've been slowly coming back and folks like me are... They're wonderful homestead pig They don't get real big They take a long time to raise though because Max they might get 300-350 pounds. but their meat is really red like a ribeye and it's marbled like a ribeye. It's very much prized by chefs, especially with charcuterie if I've pronounced that correctly. What about those hogs we got in Texas? That they're tearing- It's a mess down there! Yeah. Those things are- They're killing them. Even on helicopters. Yeah and you can't kill enough of them so... In fact I saw something not too long ago where they were paying people to come down and kill them because they can't kill them fast enough well

20:30 These don't reproduce a lot and they still have litters of 8 to 10 piglets every four months. So you can imagine a typical pig having 14 to 16 piglets every four months. How far are we from where My family came from David Crockett family. We're long ways... I don't know, I'm a transplant! Hey! I don't know all the David Crockett lore. If I didn't have grandchildren, I might move to Tennessee it's very beautiful. Hey you know we're only about an hour from Al Gore country Oh really? Yeah in fact the local university is named after racist Al Gore senior.

21:08 Sevierville better down by Dolly Parton country. Yeah, but you know that's that's becoming like a little Las Vegas down there I was so impressed Becoming it become all time ago and you were here at the best time because yes nobody here was there No one nobody goes to hell we had the whole I mean it was a big big motel look at that pig Look, here's a pig right now. I got a couple out yeah Come on baby That's all right. We'll leave them alone for now, I'll show you the boars and then i'll deal with them They'll follow me anywhere though! We're at about two minutes and now we come to the time where you say this is Steve Lane And I love Mike Hanson Archives This is Steve Lane and I love Mike Hanson Archives Keep watching folks. We'll see you next time here on Mike Hanson Archives

22:01 His film, documentary Waco Rules of Engagement was up for an Academy Award and I think it should have won. It is one of the best documentaries that I've ever seen. It methodically documents the hysteria in our government Mr. McNulty thank you for doing this interview You're welcome Um...I'm not really going to ask you any questions I just want to ask you basically do you think this is gonna come out? Why are you making a second documentary Well..the first film certainly raised all the right questions. Didn't always have all of the answers, so I've spent some additional time and effort in trying to get better answers to the questions. Who shot first on February 28th? Was there really gunfire from the helicopters?

22:48 Did the FBI shoot at the Branch Davidians on April 19th in spite of their protestations? Who were the people at the back of the building shooting at the Branch Davidians on April 19th, what was involved with the explosion on top of the bunker during the course of the fire. How was the evidence handled or mishandled in following investigation questions like that so we get to deal with those issues and hopefully when we've dealt with them We're in the process of making that film, and I'm finding very little cooperation from people who were involved People like Bob Ricks or Jeff Jamar he was head of the FBI at that operation correct. No Jeff Jamar was and Bob Rick's He was he was the public spokesperson that you saw it all because he was a public spokesperson for the FBI right and basically

23:40 Trying to get those people to cooperate now has been like pulling teeth. They're not interested Well, I can appreciate why they might not be but the fact of the matter is these are the same fellas that are out bad-mouthing my film and I think it's only appropriate first that they see the film before they bad mouth it And then once they've had that opportunity, they also spend some time answering the questions raised in the film as opposed to just being critical in sort of a general haphazard way. Mr. McNulty, I have seen your documentary when it premiered in Austin Texas to a packed house at the Dovey at UT and i was ashamed that our newspaper didn't do a front cover story they did it in the movie section and they said it showed troubling information showed federal agents firing from their sniper points and actually up

24:31 right next to the church or what the media would call the compound. I know some new documentation is coming out that's even worse than just the feds firing at women and children as they tried to exit the burning building through the cafeteria area now it true that some documentation coming out if you want to go ahead and release this, I've heard it from others that uh... that actually sent in hit squads? I don't think so You don't think they sent in hit squads? No, I don't think I'm going to release any information right now under these circumstances. Basically we will have new information in the film people will be able to judge for themselves as to what went on and why it went on and who was responsible but no I do not think that want to talk about that too much right now Yes sir just a couple more questions if you have the time

25:18 You say that you've run into a brick wall now that your documentary Waco Rules of Engagement has gotten so much attention because of the methodical nature and how well organized the information is. Do you think that your next film will be given more attention than this one or do you think the propaganda machine and mainstream media will continue to attack it despite the fact most people haven't even seen the documentary? It remains to be seen. I think the interesting point about people attacking the film now is, it's been out for a year, its completed theatrical run, has been released in home video and they're just getting around paying attention when I say they mean people like Bob Ricks Buck Revell and these others

25:59 that were former FBI agents involved in Waco in 1993. I think they're sort of a dollar short and day late, the horse is out of the barn and it comes across as nothing more than sour grapes." So you're saying that due to their arrogance they ignored this powerful information and now its gotten pretty big and they are starting to panic? I don't know if panic is the right word but certainly they have begun to pay attention where they haven't for the past year and a half. Ultimately all that tells me is these fellas have got something on their mind, and I've contacted them recently like Bob Ricks and given them the opportunity

26:38 to speak their piece, you know? To state their side of the story. And they refused to do so. So in my mind all that tells me is they've got something to hide. If that's the case then shame on them. Well it's exactly what they did when they held the media back and in a press conference said well... You're lucky that your that far but we don't want you saying what were doing but we are not going there and any kind of assault That was Jeff Jamar I think what went on here and the fact that it wasn't documented by the media the way it should have been probably has something to do with why you have a TV show and radio show.

27:15 you're not exactly mainline, but on the other hand the birth of that type of communications is a good thing because it gives the mainline media something to think about next time they want to kowtow to the people Justice Department for fear losing news sources. So perhaps its'a good thing and perhaps there's good that come out in this situation at Waco I'm gonna have to go man. Sure last question what is Sir, how long until your next film comes out? Well it's scheduled for July and if we keep on our schedule which I'm about to leave for right now we may just get it done by then. Yes sir thanks a lot appreciate it

28:00 Sir, I know you have to go. Just one more question How can the media continually lie about this and not come full force out with indictments against certain people when this documentary does show federal agents in your opinion who was it firing the automatic weapons? Who is firing the automatic weapons at the back of the building on April 19th will be revealed in a new film In terms Do I think that, do I have any idea why the media isn't doing their job? I don't know. You'll have to go ask them! That's what you oughta be doin' right now is asking these guys why they haven't done their job relative to that. Well they're just airin', boys. They're just out gettin' footage and it gets cut up back home. Yeah yeah and whatchya have to do is find the editors...I've done it And put them on camera and ask them why is it you haven't run these stories Yes sir thanks alot! I'm serious

28:53 Have you seen Waco Rules of Engagement? Yes I have. You have, so you've seen the inventor, the man that holds 3 or 4 patents on flare technology telling you those are sniper points firing automatic weapons what do you think about that I thought it was fascinating. I thought it was a different perspective than I had heard before, and I don't know that I will base any definite opinion on it but I thought it was interesting. It taught me something I didn't know before Well are you aware that our Secretary of Defense William Cohen just created 10 regional teams to work with local law enforcement? That is absolutely unconstitutional and they're doing anti-terrorism training all around the country Are you aware that General Benton Parton ex head of Air Force Weapons Development

29:37 says Oklahoma City was done with pinpoint strikes inside the building. No, I wasn't aware about that exactly what new service are you with Channel 10 here in town here in Waco if you want i will send y'all footage from CNN the day of the bombing where they were removing unexploded bombs from the girders inside Oklahoma I've worked on them if a trial out in Denver I pretty much know well thanks a lot appreciate it Mike come on Stay tuned right here for more classics. Hello folks, this is Mike Hanson I'm here in Tennessee with Steve Lane and this is our last segment and we're trying to get up to this uh... We need to sign off some nice views. Boy you bought a mountain here didn't ya? A little mini mountain. Oh wow it's Hatfields & McCoys around here yeah

30:38 He's getting the back out of there. Oh, he's gonna back out? Yeah, yeah he is getting it. Okay. We're going to get a running start to get up this mountain folks! Because I'm only in two wheel drive...I don't have two-wheel drive on this truck. Well get him out of the way my driver. Ragged out. He has already drove 2200 miles and then i know he's tired but i can't help it okay here we go folks oh now this is fun you don't do this in Texas very often wow Tennessee Mountains. It's a little wet and slippery too. Yeah What about some of these California people moving up here instead of down to Texas and screwing us over? Are they moving here too? Oh yeah, that subdivision I was in this morning where I built the house for some people there is alot of Californians

31:48 Including one of the actors from The Karate Kid TV show. Wow! Cobra Kai? Yeah, we met him at the gas station. They ruined California and now they want to ruin it all for the rest of us I guess actually i will say this The actor we met from Cobra Kai He had very nice things to say about Tennessee And said he indicated very strongly that he'd be glad To be getting out of California Well im working for some people from California Gonzales They're pretty nice people So I shouldn't say ALL people Right The smart ones are getting out. The ones that are communist type people, I don't want them. Yeah the smart ones are getting out. We're going to do one more segment. Now let's go back to Alex Jones and we'll be back in a few minutes with the last segment with Steve Lane Hurry up and get back to Texas, Steve! No! Steve Lane again with The Freedom Report They are getting ready to take some time out here to ring the replica of the Liberty Bell And call off the names of individuals who were murdered Here at the church

32:53 We have behind us Clive Doyle, and there's the replica of the Liberty Bell. Which by the way I've been meaning to ask some questions if it is a full scale replica or if its partial scale? I'd like to get a chance to speak with the individual who brought it and who is in charge of taking care of it but they are getting ready to make those announcements right now. February 28th 1993 We all know what happened that morning. There were lives taken, we're going to read all the names of everyone who lost their life here at Mount Carmel on February 28th as well as April 19th I'd like to begin with the names of those Branch Davidians that were killed here on February 28th Winston Blake England Peter Gent Australia Peter Hipsman United States

34:06 Perry Dale Jones, United States. Michael Schroeder, United States. Jadine Wendell, United States Also on that date four BATF agents lost their lives Conway Lebleu Todd McKeon Robert Williams and Stephen Willis On April the 19th fire took the lives of the following

34:54 Chanel Andrade, United States. Jennifer Andrade, United States. Catherine Andrade, United States. Ulrich Rick George Bennett England Susan Benta England Mary Jean Borst, United States Pablo Cohen Israel Abidwalo Dabo Davies Nigeria and England

35:31 Sherry Elena Doyle, United States. Beverly Elliott England Doris Fagan Jamaica England Yvette Fagan Jamaica England Lisa Marie Ferris United States Raymond Freason Canada Sandra Hariel England Diana Henry England Paulina Henry England Philip Henry England

36:19 Stephen Henry, England. Zilla Henry, Jamaica, England. Novelette Sinclair Hipsman, Canada Floyd Hautmann United States Sherry Jewell United States Cyrus Howell Koresh United States David Koresh United States Rachel Olivia Susanna Jones-Howell Koresh United States

37:00 Star Howell Koresh, United States. Sheikah Jones Koresh, United States. Little One Jones Koresh, United States. Michelle Jones Thibodeau, United States. Serenity C. Jones-Koresh, United States. David Michael Jones, United States. Jeffrey Little, United States. Nicole Elizabeth Gent Little Australia

37:45 Dayland Lord Gent, Australia. Paige Gent, United States. Unnamed aborted fetus Gent that died during the siege, United States. Livingston Malcolm, Jamaica England. Annetta Marie Martin, United States Douglas Wayne Martin, United States Lisa Marie Martin, United States

38:25 Sheila Renee Martin, United States. Wayne Martin, United States. Diana Martin England Abigail Martinez, United States Audrey Martinez, United States Crystal Berrios, United States Isaiah Taco-Berrios, United States Joseph Samuel Martinez, United States Juliette Santoyo, United States

39:10 John Mark McBean, Jamaica England. Allison Bernadette Monvalley, England Melissa Morrison, England Rosemary Morrison, England Sonia Murray, England Teresa Nobrega, England James Jimmy Lloyd Riddle United States Rebecca Sapieha New Zealand Judith Schneider United States

39:55 Mina Schneider, United States. Stephen Schneider, United States. Clifford Sellers England Flora Cetus Sonobi Philippines Scott Kojiro Sonobi, United States Aisha Garfuss Summers Australia Startled Summers, United States Unnamed Abortus Fetus Summers, United States Gregory Ellen Summers, United States

40:38 Hollywood, Sylvia. United States. Lorraine, Sylvia England, United States Rachel, Sylvia United States Margarita, Vallega China, United States Neil, Vallega New Zealand, United States Mark Wendell, United States There are a couple of survivors who've died since 1993 We have stones here for them and the flowers

41:22 and they will be placed over here later. James Lauder, United States He passed away November the 25th 1996 Jamie Martin, United States Jamie passed away February the 11 of this year We have also a number of survivors that are still in prison and I'd like to tell you about each one of them. Renis Abram born February 26 1964 he's a British businessman and musician of Greek heritage

42:01 He joined the Davidians in 1991. He escaped the fire, he's serving 40 years sentence. If you'd like to write him his name and number and where he is located is available here and you can get a copy of this. He's currently in Jessup Georgia. Brad Branch Born January 31st, 1959. He's a Navy veteran and technician from Texas A frequent visitor to Mount Carmel who came out during the siege He is serving a 40 year sentence he is currently in Beaumont Texas Jamie Castillo born June 4th 1968 He's a California drummer, guitarist who joined the Davidians in 1988 and escaped the fire He is serving a forty year sentence he is currently in Beaumont Texas

42:55 Graham Craddock, born November 29th 1961. He's an engineer from Australia who had been at Mount Carmel for a year and escaped the fire. He is serving a 20-year sentence in Oakdale Louisiana Paul Fata, born February 28 1958 He's a businessman from Hawaii who joined the Davidians in the late 80s. He was outside of Mount Carmel on February 28th, 1993. He is serving a 15-year sentence. He is in Safford Arizona. Kevin Whitecliffe born June 4 1968 he's from Hawaii. He's the father to two who had been at Mount Carmel for a year came out during the siege. He's serving a 40 year sentence. He's currently in Beaumont Texas

43:47 And finally, Livingston Fagan. Born May 15th 1959 in Jamaica he's a social worker and has a master in theology He spent most of his life in Britain the father of two who lost his wife and mother in the fire He exited during the siege serving a 40 year sentence In Oklahoma City He had been at Leavenworth Kansas where he was treated it's so inhumanely that there is a grand jury uh... impaneled now look at what some of the guards have been doing their and uh... that's why he is now an oklahoma city during that investigation for fear that his life could be in danger if you was left there at uh... at leavenworth and uh... so hopefully some of that may be straightened out

44:41 Livingston-Fagan has had a very, very tough five years as they all have. But Livingston won't play their games. Livingstone has been put outside nude and hosed down in the winter and then put in a cold cell with nothing on because he just refuses to play any of their games. Those are the men that are in prison, and if you'd like to write them we have the addresses available where they all are I'm sure that they love to hear from you We bow our heads for just a minute or so for those who lost there lives here five years ago Thank You

45:37 I'd like to personally, on behalf of all the Branch Davidians that are here, survivors. I'd like to thank you for coming today and spending your time and letting all of the survivors know exactly how you feel. They appreciate your being here and feel free to come in and look through the museum. It'll get larger, there will be more here as time goes by. And thank you all very much for coming I appreciate it thank you.

46:18 It looks to me like some sort of, and I'm not even joking around a surveillance helicopter because you'll notice on the nose of the helicopter there's kind of a reflection of light. I don't know if you can see that on the video and i could tell you from my stint in the military that it is indicative of surveillance equipment cameras The light reflects off the multiple lenses they have and clearly that's some sort of military helicopter I'm getting it, Alex. Again there's no mistaking it and I refueled aircraft while I was in the Air Force. I saw helicopters and various aircraft on a daily basis and again that is indicative of the multiple lenses that are on surveillance equipment they mount to the nose of various aircraft from F-4s different helicopters

47:06 There's standard surveillance cameras, also infrared FLIR they call it forward-looking infrared radar and there is just no doubt in my mind the glint off of the reflection which I hope you caught on the video. Well there is no mistaking that this is exactly where they put that surveillance equipment. He was a radio host in Dallas, Texas who stood up. He's been in the documentary Day 51. He was one of the first people to speak out Sir, how did you recognize immediately that army tanks and people in black ski masks surrounding a church was dangerous? Sunday morning when it first got on television I saw what was taking place and became irate about it. When you see people in black surrounding a home just firing into the walls and windows there are government

48:02 rules and regulations that state you have to have a target before you fire, they ran out of ammunition firing through walls. Let me ask you a question how come you can tell the difference between that I can tell the difference between that but the media said they fired first but you could see the door was riddled with bullet holes? No you cant see the front door because mysteriously it disappeared. I'm talking about photographs. The photographs had bullet holes through the front door One of the guys that was killed, was killed right there at the front door. That's where David Koresh was... Said let's talk? He opened up the door and said hold it hold it! There are women and children in here! He had invited the BATF to come by and he would let them inspect his weapons Two months before the raid

48:46 The BATF went over to McMahon's gun shop and wanted to look at the records of David Koresh. And while they were looking through the records, McMahon called David Koresh and said that the BATF is here and he said let me talk to him. McMahon went out with a cell phone and said David Koresh wants to talk to you and they said no, no, we're not going to talk to him and they wouldn't talk to him so David told McMahon, he said tell them to come on out right now. Come on out I'll show them anything they want to see They never showed up. They wanted a media circus as Waco rules of engagement. You outta here. See you later. They wanted what? There goes the big producer Mr. McNulty

49:28 Alright, let's finish this up. I'm so brain dead. This is not the normal island. The scary part is we had Ramsey Clark attorney general and he actually worked in three administrations Up there telling us that the Trilateral Commission, CFR are running the country or actually front groups. We have him telling us that they're militarizing the police and coming under federal control I mean what is it going to take for the dozen media cameras that were out here from stations all across the country To report on these facts? They won't! They won't their government controlled Take into consideration that every network that has a number of television stations throughout the country as well as radio stations, they are controlled by people that do belong to the CFR and do belong to the Trilateral Commission. And those people aren't going to allow their reporters to report the truth on what's going on in 1951. A gentleman who was the publisher for The New York Times was asked to speak at

50:27 at a luncheon and he said, if you think we are speaking what's telling what's true you're absolutely wrong. This is a joke! You and I are both nothing more than prostitutes who were prostituting ourselves for our business that only wants us to report what they want to hear If we report what we know and we want to do We know will be out on the street tomorrow That was 1950 Didn't this start right at the turn of the century, whenever J.P. Morgan bought up all the major newspapers? Oh absolutely and it's been going on since then and we all know what JP Morgan's money does in his banks And you know he is part of

51:04 That company, that dynasty? That dynasty that owns the Federal Reserve. JPMorgan Bank owns part of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is no more a federal government than Federal Express Then this pen is federal! That's right It's just... it's a lie, it's private What would you say to the public out there in Austin? What would you say to them, to wake up and get involved and shake the apathy. That's exactly what I'd say is wake up pay attention to whats going on in this country if your sitting there all your doing is reading a newspaper watching television your brain dead. What you need to do in all honesty start studying Read the Constitution. Read what the Constitution says, then study what the meaning of the Constitution is. Read the Federalist Papers then you'll know the meaning of the Constitution why it was written and what it was meant for until then your lost How long do you think we have left if we don't turn this around until were in a 100%

51:59 full on police state? Well, you've got to take into consideration that the government is never in a hurry. Everything they do they do in little tiny tiny chunks. Incrementally! Just like they're taking away our freedoms just little tiny pieces at a time and they use something like the Oklahoma bombing or some other catastrophe to say see what happens We don't need guns. Look at all these people that were killed, these two little boys that killed those four children and their teacher we don't need guns! And so they're trying to take it away pretty soon its all gone. It's kind of like the frog in the boiling pot? That's exactly right, thats exactly what is I really appreciate

52:36 You having me out here today and just everybody standing up for what happened to the Branch Davidians. I think though this is going to be a catalyst to wake-up the nation. I pray to God it will, we read all these names out there today and that's real hard for me to do. I've done that before and every time i do it hurts badly If you think about the lives lost here and how they were lost and put the blame squarely where it belongs, and it certainly doesn't belong on the Branch Davidians because they were just living here peacefully. Then you'll know what's... Well that's part of the demonization I mean everything that the media said turned out to be lies

53:11 speed labs, illegal guns, molesting children. He said he was Jesus If all that was true you don't fire into a home thousands and thousands of rounds from semi-and fully automatic weapons from helicopters out front into a place filled with children and then you don't come in and set the place on fire That's exactly right I mean you said it all what else is there to say? And that's exactly what the government did So we have attorney generals We have documentaries with the FBI's own footage, their own flare tapes as they fire at men women and children. They try to leave a burning building. That's right And you have the people out there just standing around worried about who the local football coach is Remember when the fire was burning while the fire was burning there was a report that 20 people had come out of the back of Mount Carmel

53:56 If you watch Waco, the rules of engagement, you'll see why those people aren't alive. They did come out the back of Mount Carmel they were killed by federal agents in tanks outside the back that's why they stopped fire trucks while they hurriedly bulldozed their bodies back into flames and in waco rules of engagement there's interviews with the terence county corners office and they sit there and tell you that one body wouldn't hardly be part the next body with bullet holes will be part to a chart for gasoline thats absolutely right and thats why i mean they had to do this if they hadn't done this everyone in the country would've seen what the government really was they demonize these people for fifty one days with a thirty minute press briefing every day and that press briefing was no more than lie after lie after live they were trying to

54:38 instigate David Koresh to do something, he wouldn't do it. They were lying about him to the American public and the sad thing is that the American public up... The majority of the American public still believes that the government was right. My sister is one of them, I can sit and show her movies, I can sit and talk with her And I might as well be talking to a brick wall. And thats' the point we have Frederick Whitehurst ex-head of FBI crime lab comes out and says they manufactured evidence from Waco to Oklahoma City Again i don't want to repeat myself but attorney generals have the will to do this and people still lay there And they're attorneys general, not attorney generals. I know! I appreciate that That's what happens when you get two hours sleep and a case of beer Thanks a lot buddy You're welcome We are here with Bonnie Haldeman, David Koresh's mother There is quite a crowd out her today to lend support and try to keep the memories alive Of people who did die just trying to live their lives How do you feel five years after the tragedy?

55:38 Well, I feel pretty much like the day it happened. The great loss and injustice of what was done here to American people in their home, their church and their family you know? The hurt is still there and we're here to remember them. Bonnie Haldeman she's the mother of David Koresh does it still feel as bad as five years ago? Sometimes it does It's gotten a little easier in some aspects, but being out here sometimes and remembering sort of in your mind you see everything that happened.

56:14 especially look at the pictures inside. You did a good job ringing the bell for the people that died here, you know I've seen you here today and talked to you some you seem like a really gentle nice woman and That makes me think even more so that all the stories we heard in the controlled media were lies about your son They were lies they were lies because he was a kind gentle person too loved people His main goal in life was to help save people's souls and he didn't like anybody to be unkind to anybody else. And he also told the BATF to come on over two weeks before. He did, he told them several times to come out they were in a gun shop one day and found out that they were there asking about him and he said tell him come on over. The sheriff knew him? Sheriff Harwell knew him. The sheriff of this county said that he was a good guy and wasn't bothering anybody and this is a good community out here. He had come out her many times you know just

57:12 in and talked to David, and Sheriff Harwell told me last year he said I'm sure I'm sorry Bonnie what happened if anything I can do for you. Well there you have it Attorney General's sheriffs here in Waco the sheriff here in Waco just goes on FBI crime lab chiefs what more do you need the documentation is there? What would you say that public in Austin Texas if they're just a few statements that you want to make to them about how they can avert this type of tragedy happening in the future. I could be averted. Well, we need to stand up for what we know is right and demand that investigations be done on what happened here and see if it doesn't happen again. Indictments? Indictments. And you know, we've got all of our family in prison that shouldn't be there. The jury of their peers found them innocent and they're spending hundreds of years in prison. That's very strange how the judge was able to do that. It is strange

58:09 It's strange. How can one man have so much power? That is not right. Well, thanks a lot Bonnie. Thank you. We are here at the museum at the remains of Mount Carmel community church community that the media called compound I want to take a look at these federal agents now who looks like the criminal here in this photograph right here who looks like the criminal pretty sinister looking isn't it Mike, here you have the remains of the church known in the media as The Compound. Now notice they said they had to destroy it because of contamination of the ground As usual in Waco and Oklahoma City They destroyed the federal crime scene there You have the ATF flag flying below the Texas United States flag a battle scene a military operation And here you have

59:13 a federal agent grimacing this young lady here. You see Clive Doyle, the man that I know is as gentle as a lamb being led by the federal agent to his jail cell. Yes after he was burnt and then here you have the bus all burnout and by the way eight miles down the road they owned a small car shop. They ran over that and tore that to pieces even though no one was there Now let's look at the militarization There they are where the children were huddled And now new evidence shows that they sent in a special ops team with special breathing apparatus To kill everyone inside their and they placed a mine on top of building here you can see them looking down through the hole Here is more FBI provocateur agents,

59:59 destroying evidence. And here you have the equivalent of MJTF FBI squads, these are who are training with your local law enforcement in their German style 1993 Kevlar helmets Here you have some the other FBI teams that stole evidence from the Tarrant County coroner's examiner's office and that's in Waco rules of engagement well documented here you have some more the tough guy behavior we can't show you the photographs of them exposing their genitalia to the children during the 30th day at a siege they did quite a bit about but here is a real tough guy, he can fire into building filled with men women and children while he wears body armor my as heat up. And of course here is some more

1:00:43 BATF, you know they shot someone who was driving into the house that day as they came down the road. The first day that the conflagration of terror began and here you have another tough guy with a automatic weapon A HK, a deadly German fully automatic weapon That is an ATF US government terrorist And of course here you have the Bradley fighting vehicle, a medium tank and they also had Abrams, the premier front line battle tank here for this group of citizens who had invited the BATF no less than twice to come out and inspect their firearms. The government never found any illegal weapons They got a false search warrant, they lied, violated posse commentatis

1:01:28 It's totally unconstitutional. This is a police state. Let's go ahead and look at what was, and what is no more. Get a shot of Waco Rules of Engagement You want to talk about a documentary that has the FBI's own flare footage as they machine gun innocent men women and children as they try to leave the church The wooden structure known as a compound in the media And to the purveyors of corruption A lot is going on and there's a new documentary supposedly coming out called Bullets Over Waco, The Survivor Story. Let's go ahead and go over here now and look at some more of the documents. This was the first day of the standoff. This is where federal police came up, secret police came up and began firing into the front door when David Koresh opened it they killed several people when they opened fire and injured David Koresh as he held his hands up They then called 911 repeatedly this is all on the 911 tapes that were being fired on Helicopters surrounded the area And we're firing into the structure through the roof Here you have

1:02:32 the structure before it was destroyed. Here you have the ATF firing as fast as they can down here, firing into the structure with absolute wanton abandonness And then you have people who are in full body armor firing at men, women and children who had committed no crime. And then you have them sitting here crying sorrowfully over a BATF agent that was shot. We're sorry that happened but when you wear black ski mask and you come into somebody's home well I'll say what G Gordon Liddy said aim for the head. Let's go on over here we're going through the entire

1:03:12 We're going through the entire 51 days now. Well, here you have what was going on at night – the lights and sirens, Nancy Sinatra and the sound of squealing dying rabbits. And then they started pumping in CS gas a banned form of tear gas because when it ignites it forms cyanide gas Here's the structure with all the thousands of tank treads around Here you have day 22, some of the people that came out were promptly sent to jail and labeled as terrorists. The BATF pulled up in cattle cars fully exposed if the Davidians were waiting to ambush them like a lot of mainstream media made for TV television propaganda shows propagandize the people right here

1:04:09 You have the structure and the BATF came up, knocked on the door, and when Koresh raised his hands and said stop let's talk about this we have women and children. They opened fires on the FBI zone tapes into the front of the structure This is even edited tapes And the door that has disappeared lawyers and people that went inside said the bullets were going in from the outside. You can tell this for novices out there, when a bullet hits a metal door it makes small hole going in and large hole going out so this again government-sponsored terrorism in your country. Okay let's uh... you have people here looking at what happened looking at the final assault you can see internal photos

1:04:54 of a machine gun sniper mount, a machine gun and a sniper crouching here. I don't know if the video camera can pick this up... crouching from their sniper position And as the people tried to exit the back, they fired on them. And again Waco Rules of Engagement shows flare footage of that happening. You can see it right here. People that were killed by federal forces special block... Here you have the people that were killed by Special Military Forces Black Ops squads That is secret military squads that accompanied the feds We're told also some British

1:05:32 Special Forces teams were inserted to kill all the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened. And there, of course you have the evidence before it was destroyed The FBI and BATF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City at the World Trade Center bombing after they've done their handiwork This is Clive Doyle's daughter that did not deserve To be burned up in the building and shot as he tried to exit We're here with Clive Doyle, one of the surviving Branch Davidians. He came down a couple months ago and we really appreciate you coming down to share the information and knowledge of your run-in with The New World Order or what you'd call Antichrist forces here in Waco Texas I appreciate you having everybody out here What do you think about an Attorney General coming out here speaking about what's happening in the police state? Well Ramsey Clark is

1:06:29 been a great friend ever since he got onto our civil case and he has spoken just about every year for the last three years. The fact that an Attorney General has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did, I think is a credit to his personality and his principles I'd kind of like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kinds of things, but that may be down the road. So he was speaking out against the trilateralist control system whereas she is the trilateralist control system? Well what I'm saying is that I am hoping for a change in whether we'll see it. You know lots changed since the 60's. Sure so you know...we look forward

1:07:16 I thought it was an interesting development that we had a FBI negotiator, and negotiated during the siege. That actually came out... Is he gone? Umm..I'm not sure but he is the first time we've had a government agent you know or ex-government agent that was involved with the situation Did he apologize? He did to me uh i don't know that he did publicly in so many words What's his name? Ferris Rookstool. Oh, he was one of the guys on the phone wasn't he? FBI negotiated him Where is Ferris I don't see Ferris. I'd love to ask him about that Well... But it's like you and others sat on the phone and David Koresh sat on the phone

1:07:56 all he was, was a message boy. Really he didn't have any authority correct? That's true they had to acknowledge that somebody else is calling the shots either from Washington or their commanders whatever and of course they squad out here in the tanks they were doing all the damage anyway that's the problem you create military police they like to kill it doesn't matter if its men women and children again you lost your daughter in this sure This makes me so angry I mean, you're a very peaceful person. I've gotten the chance to get to know you somewhat and the people i meet are like the most innocent kind...I mean some of the older ladies that survived uh are how old is the oldest surviving branch Davidian? Well the oldest one in this area um is 90. There's two of them that are in their nineties. One of them's at a rest home and

1:08:51 still active. Do you remember the made for TV movies that showed elderly women with huge automatic weapons firing? I can never watch that thing all the way through without getting mad so, I don't quite remember the old ladies but i remember the movie we had last year we had the guy who wrote the script for that who did come and apologize yeah so uh... i think you know there's hope the worst kind of people. These people should be ashamed of what they're doing let me just ask you a question that's not off the subject but what do you think about us buying all these goods from China made by political dissidents 30 million at any one time with 25 percent attrition rate, that's millions dead year in these camps and the Chinese moving into Long Beach isn't this going to come back on all Americans if we allow this to continue?

1:09:41 Well, as far as buying goods that are made by cheap labor whether it's from China or anywhere else I think we've forced a lot of the businesses to go overseas for cheap labor because of the slave labor We have in our prison system. You said it you know you get people working for 10 cents an hour How can they be average businessmen out there compete when he's too easy? He's at least got to pay the minimum wage. I'm sure you know, but you've never been in trouble with a law in your life had you till this happened? Never been in doubt. They asked me when they booked me after they got me out of the hospital took me down into county jail and started to book me. They said have you ever been in jail before? I said many times but never as an inmate. That was my first time

1:10:19 It's quite an experience. I would. And you know it is true, per land mass and population on both those statistics Texas has more prisons than any country in the world except for China or America. They build them more than they got prisoners in Texas so they bring in prisoners from elsewhere That's why they are creating new crimes Sir Clive Doyle I really want to thank you for standing up strong against this and more and more documentation coming out like Waco Rules of Engagement Is that a hard film for you to watch? It's hard enough to talk about, let alone watch it over and over. Even myself I've got footage from various CNN and C-Span clips.

1:11:04 been going through some of the stuff I've had just to try to find some things that i remember seeing and want to use you know, and uh... just sit there live through it over again. What's this bullets over Waco? This is put out by Jeremiah Films they're the ones who made the cover up, I mean The Clinton Chronicles which you may have heard about Haven't seen it yet. It's not out not due out till May, but the the producer was especially impressed with coming here and interviewing us and Seem to be really touched so just whether he's got some bosses that want to chop it up and do a different story I don't know what it sound like it was going to be pretty good blob Doyle again surviving branch Davidian Thank you very much make it for now There have been some documentaries

1:11:48 front documentaries by the establishment here in America like PBS supposedly giving us good information where they continually refer to this as a cult and compound. Did y'all refer yourself as a culture or compound was it church? We never called ourselves a cult, it was a church the place is called Mount Carmel Center not Mount Carmel Compound And it was wooden? Made of wood pretty flimsy actually when you when they brought the tanks and you could thought we were going into earthquake the way it shook so It was not a fortified compound or fortress of any kind. And it was not a military base. What was it like being there with men, women and children? And to have people running around in black ski masks with semi-automatic and automatic weapons firing at you I didn't see anyone on the 19th so I can tell ya that You didn't see any people... I didn't see any ski mask people in there Well we've seen them in Austin

1:12:45 So is that a newer thing just in the last few years since that happened, that they're now wearing ski masks? Oh, they had scheme-ass people that I've seen photographs of on the outside but i didn't see any in the building. You're too busy hiding it! Oh, I got you... Sure, I thought you meant inside running around inside Well that's some information that's now coming out this next documentary um that's being put up by the same people who put out Waco Rules Of Engagement and I've talked to some lawyers Mr Brennan and others that is pretty much documented I know you were trying to get out for your life and get other people to safety We're being told now that some special forces teams perhaps from Britain were sent in with breathing apparatus. I'm not aware of that, but then we were isolated those of us who were in the chapel pretty much cut off from people down the other end because all the damage they'd done to the building Let me ask you one more question You and others have talked about how water tanks had holes on top and only way water tanks could have holes on top was from helicopters Did you see helicopters firing? I did not see the helicopters firing

1:13:47 Did anyone see them? Catherine saw them, other people saw them. Marjorie Thomas who's from England who was badly burned she said that her testimony which she did a video deposition for the trial but I don't think it ever played in its entirety but in that deposition she said some of the girls were looking out the window on the north end and they were acting sort of agitated so she walked over to look and see what they were looking at. And she looked out the window, and jerked her head back because this helicopter was so close to the glass it scared her I mean it's so close. As she jerked her head back bullets came through and smashed the glass just where she'd been looking at him. This is right there in the first assault? Right yeah this part of the initial shooting Were helicopters used in a second final assault

1:14:43 Well, they definitely had planes taking this infrared or this flare tape. Some say there was a fixed wing some say there was helicopter... They were buzzing the building throughout with these jet-type helicopters these black ones throughout the 51 days. Well even though we see these black and dark green helicopters media tells us that they don't exist do they exist? You know you have photographs in here of them. What would you say to the public out there? I don't know where they get the idea that they don't exist, it's... I guess it is the same place that says they never fly with their doors open when you can see footage right through them. Got doors open on both sides! They did it in Vietnam and they did it in Mekong. And yet they deny that they are allowed to do that. At least our guys in Vietnam were going to fight an enemy who was armed It's pretty sick. You know this better than me, come attack children Oh yeah

1:15:32 This didn't need to happen, it shouldn't have happened. But apparently they had an agenda Do you think that there will be more state-sponsored terrorism like Waco? I don't think it's over My bible tells me this beast makes war on God's people and overcomes them and kills them up until a certain point And I don't think we've seen the last of it So this is just the beginning It seems that way That's what my bible tells me Clive thank you very much I appreciate that by the fact earlier when they were ringing the bell that so many people were from England. Now, where those people still British citizens or now has the government of Britain gotten involved in investigation anyway? Or have they expressed no interest? We've tried to stir up response from the British government from my writing to people and asking them to go direct and ask questions and put it to him how come I didn't do anything about their own citizens

1:16:31 And they got a pretty nasty attitude in England apparently. They just wiped them all off and said, well they were all from elsewhere you know... ...they're from Jamaica or Nigeria or whatever and just wrote them off. Well Mr Brennan the lawyer for some of the murdered children that's why he was saying that it now looks like with some documents they've uncovered He said this down at the last conference that y'all came down to Austin, that's why they use some British intelligence because it is well known in the intelligence community. If you're going to an operation involving people from another country who we are allied with, you'll allow that country to do your work for you." It's possible, but I don't know anything about that at this point. I just was completely shocked by the fact that... I mean confirm this or deny it that seemingly the British government has had basically no interest in investigating what happened here. The Israeli government and New Zealand government and the Israeli government and Canadian government are the same but of all of them England lost most citizens That is what I was struck by

1:17:27 that if British citizens were in South Africa or some of these other outposts in the world, as many British citizens were killed there as they are here I can't imagine they would sit on their hands and seemingly do nothing. You'd almost think they would have a war over them That's what I mean It was shocking to me Yeah...I haven't got a satisfactory answer from anybody on that myself Perhaps the US-Britain power axis and banking is just really one beast? I called British Embassy and British Consuls and stuff here in this country, in regards to the situation with Livingston being beaten up by 300 pound guards and fire hoses put on him. Because he's still a British citizen? Yes! And so their response was

1:18:12 just pounded up, well you need to contact such and such a consul in such and such a city because that's who is over Kansas. And then they say you contact such-and-such? Yeah they just keep passing along... After 100 calls your back at the same place Whether they finally got into it or not but you know Is he still being tortured right now? He's out of Leavenworth, he is in Oklahoma and there supposed be going to have a grand jury indictment some other guards up their Leavenworth Why would these guard do this Well, apparently they were doing it not just to Livingston but to a lot of people. But Livingston, he's black for one thing and about 130 pounds. He is just a little guy. They probably figured they'd get away with it. They were doing it to other prisoners so they've pulled all those prisoners out from what I understand to protect them until they can testify at this grand jury against these guards. Thanks a lot Clive.

1:19:10 We're here at the site where the people were killed, here at Mount Carmel Church. And for every person that was murdered here they planted a crepe myrtle and some flowers for the murdered people This is a caring community out here They fixed cars They were postmen and yes they sold firearms to law-abiding citizens For doing this they were murdered in cold blood for publicity stunts for Bill Clinton Again, from ex-FBI chiefs to General Parton, Executive Air Force Weapons Development to Ted Gunderson, FBI Chief. Oklahoma City was done by black ops secret government squads on April 19th in 95' two years later because Clinton's approval rating was plunging and they needed to overshadow this terrible memory with the memory of the government dying So just be aware that just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 33', they blew up Oklahoma City

1:20:09 to make sure that no one ever remembers this but it's backfired on them people know what happened in both cases government terrorism there is serenity c jones april 19th 93 age four murdered by MJTF military police forces under Clinton's command fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur, whats his name like? Go show you a real live agent provocateur and the media is clustered around him. They don't want to talk to ex-attorney generals, no they want to talk to agent provocateurs One more thing if all I say is a lie why isn't the government coming in prison me? Because they don't want an investigation They don't want me to bring out some type of trial all the information our government blowing up buildings murdering churches

1:21:03 We're here with Jack Duvault and he wrote Waco Whitewash. Sir, you've been talking about this ever since it happened and do you feel that people know more and more now in America exactly what really happened here or do you think that there's a lot of work still to be done? There is tremendous amount of work to be done. Most people are slowly forgetting what has happened here and the word is not getting out, there are all kinds of materials available on the internet my book for example in my book I followed the trial very closely and in that book

1:21:47 about eight examples of indictable offenses by federal officers and agents, and nothing has ever been done about it. Talk about the unprofessional behavior, mooning and showing their genitalia to women and children playing the sounds of dying rabbits firing in from the first day on the last day with helicopters and sniper mounted positions And lying continuously, lying and lying But the real crime is mainstream controlled media isn't it? That's right If the truth was out, if the... well actually the controlled media is controlled by Slick and Reno as far that goes. And if they were telling the truth then the media would tell the truth but they won't tell the truth so I don't know how to compel them to tell the truth What does it like though to know what's going on? To see Americans believing this saddening propaganda

1:22:40 Well, it's disheartening but I'm not a Branch Davidian by any means. I don't hold to many of their doctrines except that I know there is a God and... And you're First Amendment? And I know that God is in control of this whole mess and actually I have kind of apocalyptic view on what's going to happen when the year 2000 comes down with the computer Y2K Yes We just had a thumb scanning protest where I was arrested the biometrics and yes I believe they're going to create a crash and make you thumb scan or retina scan for, to buy-and-sell. Well i believe that the entire culture is going to have a severe culture shock because I think that we're going into a economic

1:23:25 spiritual change. I think that everything is going to change because people who have thought that they were building their security all these years... Were building their slavery? Yeah, that's right. Building their own cage. Correct Sir, I really appreciate that and i want to get you on my radio show okay thank you very much Thank You Jack. I was saying sir, you came here during the siege, correct? During the siege we came up here. I engineered maybe 40 people. I had been involved in the operation rescue business saving babies' lives and unborn babies lives so I felt that there were some born babies lives that needed to be saved and I was convinced they were going to die during

1:24:10 During the siege I was convinced that they weren't going to let them out because you saw the mentality. That's right That's right the federal government officials have this compulsion To be in charge to win no matter what to absolutely overpower any opposition And this was what I observed and I also knew the hearts of these people that were here, and they just we're going to be steadfast They were not going to be movable and so we came up here with about 40 people about I guess it was a month before the siege ended in the fire. And we made an effort to walk in, and we got five miles away here! There were FBI agents, ATF agents, state troopers, sheriff's department all out forcing us not to step across the line. So it was an MJTF operation?

1:23:25 spiritual change. I think that everything is going to change because people who have thought that they were building their security all these years... Were building their slavery? Yeah, that's right. Building their own cage. Correct Sir, I really appreciate that and i want to get you on my radio show okay thank you very much Thank You Jack. I was saying sir, you came here during the siege, correct? During the siege we came up here. I engineered maybe 40 people. I had been involved in the operation rescue business saving babies' lives and unborn babies lives so I felt that there were some born babies lives that needed to be saved and I was convinced they were going to die during

1:24:10 During the siege I was convinced that they weren't going to let them out because you saw the mentality. That's right That's right the federal government officials have this compulsion To be in charge to win no matter what to absolutely overpower any opposition And this was what I observed and I also knew the hearts of these people that were here, and they just we're going to be steadfast They were not going to be movable and so we came up here with about 40 people about I guess it was a month before the siege ended in the fire. And we made an effort to walk in, and we got five miles away here! There were FBI agents, ATF agents, state troopers, sheriff's department all out forcing us not to step across the line. So it was an MJTF operation?

1:25:03 Well, more or less we all had armbands on. I had armbands made that said unarmed patriot so when we got shot the press was out there if we got shot we would at least be identified and it... We didn't even have the courage though to step into those AK armed men that were guarding every road, every approach. We came around to the back side over here and tried to come across the field there and they had helicopters circling us all of time and armed guards. Now Jack sir I know you're in the military and I know your an author but come now helicopters don't exist their only building a huge helicopter base in Austin for surveillance with infrared

1:25:46 Please, please just don't see those black helicopters. Of course these helicopters were not black they were pink. Dark green of course yes sir but why are you not engaging in the mass delusion? Please engage in it with the rest of culture! Well you see when I joined the Air Force taken the oath of office five different times. I joined the Navy during World War II, I joined the Air Force as an enlisted man and then went to aviation cadets. Then was commissioned then got a regular commission each those times i had to take the oath of office. Please tell us that oath? That said I will defend the Constitution up the United States from enemies within and without foreign and domestic. That oath has not

1:26:30 gone away just because I got out of the service. I was not released from that oath, that oath was under God and uh... i still have that obligation Just like Michael knew would you ever refuse as a young man to try to put your in control? I hope I would have the courage of Michael New he's a good friend of mine and I think that uh... he did spectacular job and is still doing it spectacular job thank you very much sir and that's a good book I've heard, haven't read but uh... I hear that I'm not a very good writer but Waco Whitewash has got a lot of good information Thanks a lot, sir. We're standing on the spot just feet away from the front door where the cattle trailers with people girded in black pulled up and opened fire on men women and children And above us we're circling black-and-dark green military helicopters with infrared scopes firing incessantly on the people

1:27:25 And again, this has all been documented with FBI footage that was snuck out by defense attorneys. This is incredible! The people were murdered right here on the spot when men women and children burnt inside this structure and this was all again part of state-sponsored terrorism to push the envelope to test what they could get away with Now I'm standing on the spot where David Koresh opened the door, raised his hands and said as they charged him with a dynamic entry. He said hey let's talk we have women and children here they opened fire he was injured some of his associates were killed They then called 911 as the fire continued more people were killed As thugs impotent weaklings continued to fire into this structure And no excuses No amount of government propaganda

1:28:19 can cover up the shameful events that happened here at Mount Carmel. You know, there's a common thread in all of this from Oklahoma City to the World Trade Center bombing to of course Waco they always destroy the evidence and don't let locals in to document anything what do they have to hide? If this was some murderous cult as the TV shows told us then what did they have to hide why did they always destroy the remains This building was burnt to the ground, but they still bulldozed the entire foundation and pushed it up in a heap. In a monument to the wreckage of the police state. Welcome to The New World Order. Right there on the podium here at the five year remembrance of the slaughter is Ramsey Clark ex-attorney general of the United States of America

1:29:07 And he is there telling you that we are under federal control, the military is training with local law enforcement. This is absolute police state Nazi Germany is right upon us but this time it's going to be not racial but environmental and socialist It's the real deal ladies and gentlemen you can't deny it They're suffering a share in it remember the suffering of the Palestinian people and prevent it We have to love all the people and prevent violence, and demilitarize the planet. And in the ancient Hebrew words of Deuteronomy above all our command is to set it, to set it, tir doth justice, justice thou shalt pursue. God bless you everyone. One more speaker that I'd like to introduce

1:30:12 And he didn't even know he was going to talk here today. But it's the talk show host that put together the busload of people that came up from Austin, Texas. He is on radio station KJFK in Austin and does a program called The Real Spin. His name is Alex Jones. Well, it's hard to speak after Ramsey Clark Attorney General during the Carter administration and you hear what he was just telling you

1:30:48 There is a massive consolidation of local police departments under federal control. The Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force and the JTF 6, which is based at Fort Bliss Texas They wear black ski masks they train in military tactics and they are the big gun and long arm of IRS and criminal system that's running this nation Make no mistake, the murders of these people and these children was about one thing and one thing only It was about terrorism against the American people. It was about testing and pushing the limits to see if the government could surround a group, if they could kill those people and burn it to the ground. Waco rules of engagement shows the automatic weapons fire as men and women tried to exit the back of the building that's where most bodies were found right in the edge. Hit squads military black ops are same ones that destroyed Oklahoma City just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933

1:31:48 I mean, where is our country when ex-attorney generals of the United States of America are here telling you that Reno and the rest of them and Republicans and Democrats are all the same people? It just makes my heart swell with pride that we do have people like Ramsey Clark and others. And this whole crowd out here standing in defiance of tyranny! And i'll take a line from that movie Braveheart What would you give dying in your bed all these years from now to have just once stood up in defiance of tyranny? To put on the armor and ride out onto the field against the enemy. And violence is not the way to go, they are the ones that use violence They are the ones that are dangerous

1:32:38 Understand that we've got to use information like Waco rules of engagement I mean that documentary is so powerful because it doesn't exaggerate, it doesn't lie. For three hours it lays out the information for you to see and where is the mainstream media editing this information out. You have federal agents killing men, women and children they came that day at open fire first helicopters came in and assaulted and now we find out it's gonna come out in the next documentary think about this if they sent in death squads with breathing apparatus to kill those people inside because they couldn't have any witnesses of what really happened

1:33:21 on the first day of the 51-day standoff. So we're dealing with murder, we're dealing with terrorism against the American people and this is nothing new in the history of the world. Authoritarian regimes always seek to control the modes of finance, printing money transportation food production you name it all coming under federal control under the guise environmentalism which is nothing but a cult now very very serious Somebody has got to stand up. More people have got to stand up. FEMA! Under Senate Resolution 21 is building hundreds of concentration camps on military bases set up for families, areas for men, areas for women, areas for women with children and areas for men who have families on the other side of the camp. And by the way they have triple the guard towers and I played this many times on my television show it's just out of control i have congressman

1:34:21 on tape, Henry B. Gonzalez and others admitting this Look at the world! And then I'm gonna get off here because there's...others have a lot more to say than me Hitler killed 40 million The communists in Russia killed about 100 million The communist Chinese we're not sure 100-200 million And it's still going on We're buying slave goods from these people They are moving into Long Beach Naval Base They are moving into the high desert of California at Victorville and Atalanto and building 20 mini malls to bring in slave goods directly This is a de-industrialization of our plan and it is just sick what's happening to our country. And people have got to stand up against if freedom is going to survive

1:35:03 And the plans are there, make no mistake. But don't be fearful! People that lay down... I mean ask yourself how did the Germans allow Hitler to come to power? They believed it's propaganda most of death camps were off in Poland Keep it away keep on military bases keep behind closed doors This is what happening make no mistake and mainstream media going around last week in Austin A mainstream media station went out and had reporters on the street asking where will terrorists strike next. They're introducing this into their psychology, they're creating a new cosmology of fear and preparing people for terrorism And I just want to warn you one more time State sponsored terrorism is the number one brand worldwide Oklahoma City was terrorism What happened right here where i'm standing in Waco

1:35:56 Back in 1993, on April 19th with state-sponsored terrorism. It was a test to see if you'd lay down and I'm telling you something they're taken back now because their propaganda and their lies work for awhile but you see that the polls are changing more and more people are waking up to what's happening So I want to challenge you to talk with 10 people a week, get them to see Waco Rules of Engagement. It has nothing to do with this documentary but it's so incredibly powerful that you have got to get this and get into congressman hands, your friends' hands, judges in your local cities Because this can be a revelation to the people of America, to the people that just want to be pragmatic. To the people that are just relativists and don't care as long as tyranny doesn't come knocking on their door And I'll just paraphrase this We've all heard the famous quotes and statements When they came for the Jews They didn't come for me so i left it alone When they came for the Catholics when they came for All these different groups I stayed there Finally when they came for me There was nobody left to stand up for me

1:37:01 This is the real deal. This is human history, this is not some foggy conspiracy theory I have to tell you three years ago four years ago I thought what happened at Waco was wrong but I thought...I mean I believed a little bit of the propaganda and I thought well you know this and that And more I studied this The more I found out, it's worse than even what Waco Rules of Engagement or Day 51 had to offer. And that's why I'm glad they're coming out with a new documentary because this is what it's going to take. It's going to take information to the public. Information is power so stop reacting and start acting and stand up against this police state or we're going into 100% taxation, 100% tyranny

1:37:43 And just because it's packaged sweetly and has a nice, flashy exterior the interior is barbed wire and pure slavery. Thank you all for being here! Thanks Alex Clark he was Attorney General during LBJs administration and He said some very stunning information that A lot of us in the freedom movement know about but a lot people out there in the mainstream because of the press don't know about He was talking about the growing police state Sir would like to make some comments on that?

1:38:20 Well, our government has become the greatest purveyor of violence on earth as Dr. King said it was in 1967 but today it's gone beyond all reasonable bounds 265 billion dollars and military expenditures which is probably half of all the military expenditures in the world It exceeds next biggest government by fivefold exceeds The entire Military Expenditures to the National Security Council And includes things like they tried into nuclear submarine which could wipe out millions and millions of people with a single launch. It trains people like the School for the Americas to go into Chiapas, Mexico and kill Mayan Indians who were starving to death with our NAFTA thing that's driven their corn off the market because they can't compete with us and then can't sell their surplus corn to make little money to buy some water purifiers so their kids don't get sick and die from polluted

1:39:17 water. This militarism, you know we've never had a standing army before the Civil War now we've got this huge standing army with more than 200 thousand troops permanently stationed overseas the largest naval armada in the world since World War II and the Persian Gulf on permanent basis and that's not the land of free in the home of brave We weren't cut out to do that here at home You see things like Waco, which show that we carry over our militarism right into our churches to assault church people. Well yes sir my first question is or my first statement about this is you're absolutely right I mean we have military training people in black ski masks with the MJTF multi-jurisdictional task forces training directly with our local law enforcement in Austin Texas where I'm from and I found out that this is a nationwide movement

1:40:13 Sure it is. And the sad part is, you know the cop is supposed to be our friend on the beat he's one that takes gets the cat out of the tree and takes care of the lost kids and stops someone from burglarizing a home and stuff like that Instead, they love to be SWAT team. It's the thin blue line there teaching them in fact I've heard police... pretty thick blue line right now. I've done interviews at protests and things and the police walk up and say stay behind the demarcation line uh you'll hear him talking watch the civilians They're using military terminology is this dangerous? Of course it's dangerous The paramilitary concept of police is a police state You know And our constitution was created to prevent us from being a police state

1:40:53 Yet our police expenditures, our creation of the fear of crime and the belief that you can solve crime by more prisons, by death penalty and beating people in their head is crazy. It's just war with our own society. And you see it come to a head at a peaceful church outside of Waco Texas, Mount Carmel. And just again, talk about the police statement I appreciate doing this interview Mr Clark That is the dangerous part about it. Eisenhower, Kennedy and many others warned us about the military-industrial complex and now since we've dominated the whole planet they are now still selling fear but now they're selling fear of the American people They are making us the enemy Well I think that's right Our prison population in Texas is the worst of all or in many ways just as Texas is absolutely the worst on the death penalty Half the people executed in United States last year were executed in Texas

1:41:44 You've got the Pope pleading with us not to execute people. You've got the United Nations Human Rights Commission pleading with us, South Africa who caused us when apartheid was in power there to abolish the death penalty as we did when I was Attorney General. We cut out the death penalty and haven't had a federal execution since 1963 but it would be good if we could point to South Africa where they were executing a person today all black And we didn't want to be like that, so we abolished it. Now they've abolished the death penalty in South Africa The constitution has abolished it, the parliament's abolished it, the supreme court's abolished and we're the Lord High Executioner We got more than 3 thousand people on death row What that means... no free society tells people do what you say or we'll kill ya Yes I mean

1:42:31 That's the mentality of a police state. Well, Mr Clark just a couple more questions again Attorney General in the LBJ administration and you also worked in the Kennedy and the Carter administration? I worked eight years Kennedy Johnson. I did one assignment maybe two for President Carter the first one doing having to do with the Hostages I was mistaken. I got up there in front of podium and got it mixed up but The thing that I don't think the American public realizes is that this military training is going on. What are some things we can do to get this reversed, hopefully?

1:43:08 Well, I think we have to resist at every level. If you don't work at the national level, you can't expect the local level... After all, we're providing a lot of federal funds for the local level and they love it. And that brings control? It brings control, it brings technology, it brings things they don't need, ya know? Infrared Who needed tanks out here? Yeah, everything that billions and billions of dollars in research and development provide the military are now being diverted. It's going into civilian control Have YOU seen Waco Rules Of Engagement? Sure. It's horrifying, isn't it? It's horrifying the whole story is even more horrifying sir I didn't actually see this last year But I heard about it reported and some of the alternative press Is it true that last year you spoke about how the Trilateral Commission is running the country

1:43:55 Well, I've criticized the Trilateral Commission for many years but i don't really think the Trilateral Commission is running the country. CFR? I think that same people are... The control it! The same people who run the CFR, Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral... Those are just front groups Sure, I mean they're just meeting their organizations through which they implement their power and it's an international group that maintains power to the multinational corporations in the media and all the rest Yes sir. And wouldn't you say that now what you have is is corporate socialism for them and slavery for us? Well, you've got You've got corporate wealth for them They don't... It's called stealing

1:44:37 It could be called stealing, although it's stealing on such a grand scale that you'd have to call it grand larceny I think. who's going to be watching this about what they... I just want to go back to solutions. We see an awakening in the nation and we see the establishment, in the media becoming conscious of this And now I've seen a new tactic They're now disclosing more and more abhorrent information In attempt to desensitize us in my opinion Would you agree with that? Do you have any comments on that Well, propaganda is one of the main means they employ. Demonization, fear of crime and things like that but every individual... The Hegelian principle? Every individual has an obligation to be involved in this struggle if you want to live free and want your children who come after it to live free You can't be a bystander And right now we really risk spread of militarisation throughout the world

1:45:37 is endangering the poor everywhere. It's a desire to control by force, there are so many people in so much poverty and there is so much technology that can destroy people that it's being employed against people everywhere the poor here, the poor nations abroad. So we have to work on slashing our military budget to bare bones it oughta be slashed 90%. We've got to cut back on all hardware for police. Police oughta serve the people not be a force it shouldn't be paramilitary concept it oughtta be social service concept that deals sensitively with people...we have to deal with basic problems and while we have poverty were going

1:46:14 the problems that poverty creates. Poverty is the mother of crime, Plato told us that 2500 years ago and it was pretty obvious then and is pretty obvious now. Yes sir! Got to go. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Stay tuned right here for more classics. Alright welcome back this is Mike Hanson from Mike Hanson Archives we're here in Tennessee with Steve Wayne What's going on here Steve? Restoring native grasslands. These cedars or junipers, they just kind of overtook this a couple hundred years ago after we ran the Cherokee off and we're trying to restore it to native grasslands for grazing because it looks a lot better just to be honest. You mean the Cherokee Indians? Yeah, the Cherokee Indians. This all was Cherokee land

1:47:00 And they would burn it every few years and only the mature hardwoods like oaks and stuff would survive. And then they had all those grasses for... So how many acres can he do a day? Depends on but usually around between three if it's really, really bad stuff up to maybe six. Wow! That is kind of amazing because they take you forever to clear that out I know and all we have to do is if you wanted to let this rot about a year in place and then you could plant right in it We'll grate a little bit off and plant in it right away because If I tried to plant in it now the seed would never grow

1:47:49 Okay, well this is our last segment. Tell us what you got here? So these are my two boars These are my two males His name is number three because that was his ear tag and he's just a big baby but they've got like body armor in here seriously there's these plates and You can't pierce that with the broadhead But if I scratch his belly He'd fall right over See? So that's number three and that's Fat Boy. Well, that's what you call Tennessee pork! And you say you eat them though Steve right? You breed them and eat em'? Yes so these two we'll use to breed our females These are registered American Guinea Hogs Some of the piglets will sell as registered piglets

1:48:59 But mostly we'll grow them about 18 months to two years and then they'll be at a good processing size. Plus, that's the best flavor of the meat for this breed and the best texture of the meat is when they're about 2 years old but they will only be about 350 pounds at that age which is why people don't really do these anymore because the pigs you buy at the store or pork you buy They're probably 600 pounds when they're processed and it only takes them about nine months to get that big. But, they're never outside. They are on a concrete floor their whole life in a pen inside of the building These guys... I always say these guys have one bad day their whole lives That's it! Every other day is awesome. So... And same deal we move these guy once week to fresh area that they can root around in and eat acorns and nuts things like that

1:49:53 So they're about ready to move actually. They've been in here a while we've had so much rain and snow and like I said with all this clearing it's just mud right now but when it's done if you come back in a year, this will all be grasses like this tall and it'll be so nice for them because they'll be able to graze those grasses and they won't tear stuff up so bad. Well my driver just told me that we were 970 miles from my office in Gonzales Texas That's a long way up here, Steve. You almost did move 1,000 miles away! Hey I want to get one more quick shot before we go. Hop in the truck with me so you can see the view. Now we're going back to Alex Jones Say hi to Alex because he probably is going to see this. Alex hows it goin? Return my text messages. Alrighty God bless you now were gonna go back to the future 1990's Alex Jones Underground bunker

1:50:46 And as a result, the men women and children died. Also one of the tanks drove inside the structure and this is even admitted to by the FBI... ...and there was a inside area where they stored food that was concrete They thought that was the safest area because most of the structure was wood right over there They drove directly in and pumped CS gas, a banned form chemical weapon point-blank range into children's faces They don't make gas masks that fit 2-, 3-, 4-year old children my friends This is incredible. No matter what propaganda you want to believe, those babies did not deserve to be murdered by the black ski mask thugs.

1:51:36 That didn't come out in the trial. You're some kind of provocateur, in fact you're one of those FBI agents aren't you? I don't personally...I don't give a damn Oh yeah, your not going to anything to me These people are murderers These people are murderers. I'm sick and tired of hearing your lies when you machine gunned a bunch of men, women and children! You got a big problem buddy. You sit over here...I'm not afraid of you guys. I am a law abiding citizen And i'm sick of it! You sit over here and talk about how the children huddled in the corner? How all the ammunition they had is what killed them All the rest is your garbage You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You don't stand up for the Constitution, you stand for zip not a zero! I heard that... You have no calm aplomb It's false my friend and let me tell ya lot of people are writing down your names. You can follow people around, you can harass people, you can back-up your bankster buddies but a revolution of peaceful information is coming and when it comes time you people are going to brought to punishment. Do you understand? Just like Nuremberg just taking orders doesn't cut it my friend do you understand me

1:52:34 I think i've assessed you. Yeah, oh you've assessed me? You listen... ...you can sit there and say some kind of little joke all your textbook garbage my friend! I got people like General Partin ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development we know the federal government destroyed Oklahoma it's proven we know what you guys are engaged in just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag we know you brought Nazis over here through the rat line to set up our CIA after the OSS So you can't sit here, you can assess me all day. I want you to assess me! I've assessed YOU a smiley face slime ball that sits here in soft pedals and tries to placate the media Waco rules of engagement shows your agents machine gunning men women and children as they tried to exit one of the inventors of flare technology worth hundreds of millions of dollars is on that documentary He is of the establishment If you would review the documentary Yeah You'd find out I'm in the film as well

1:53:22 Well, yes I just saw you over here. I watched the first time it came out. You obviously haven't reviewed it. Okay that's fine. I think it is soft pedaling. I heard enough. I sat over there for about three minutes and listened to you. Then you can move on. Okay I am moving on but your not in control of the situation Mr. Assessor. Okay. Okay. I'll tell ya'll I'm just standing right here. Good! Mean you sit there, and you're not sitting no. You're not looking down on me Okay, you sit there all smiley face. You've already prejudged me I can't get on you all good good well That's fine mister okay? Good we ready to move on I'd like to thank you didn't you hear what I said Didn't you hear what I said? No. Yeah, but we don't need this type of placating somebody coming in and saying oh i'm so sorry that we did this We don't need that! We need indictments Then you need to go and call for indictment to Janet Reno Are you calling for an indictment to Janet Reno? No. Harriman-Guerin and Dragg Oh, so your not calling for Harriman-Guerin and Dragg What about people who ran the tanks through this place? Well here you have it right here Were told that the bunker was here where the children cowered

1:54:30 where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas at point blank range, and then they pushed all of the rubble over there. So the bunker was somewhere over in this area This is just Mora big brother We just went to one of the FBI negotiators who's now over here soft pedaling things And he's not calling for indictments, Reno! Harriman, Goering & Dragg You know all these slaves are going to get what they ask for The IRS bending people over all day? All night It's a real pleasure to stand up to Big Brother and all his slimy cronies. Let's get out of here, I want to get out this place it's depressing. Like this tyrant he sat right there and looked me in the eye And talked about how I'm assessing you that FBI assessor That FBI con man that came out here That negotiator and he is sorry about what happened but tries to put some blame on the Davidians I am here to tell you right now what they did was Outta control and wrong If he is so good at assesing people Then he sure as hell assessed the Davidians wrong

1:55:35 And they sure as hell murdered those people. I'm not gonna sit down with... San Diego Do you know Anthony Hilder? No, no do you know well Tom... Alright we're leaving guys it's been a big success i just chewed out an FBI agent that piece of garbage We'll be right back There it is! We're gone! We're leaving the scene of terror Where's the FBI agent? Which one was the FBI agent? I went and shoot him out way down there That on tape? Yeah Can't wait for that shit I'm about forgot why I got so angry. Ready? Go. You know, I forgot why I got so hold on a second. We just left back there already. Come on, we're doing something here.

1:56:38 I blew up at that FBI negotiator because, you know, I forgot once I got in an argument with him and he played good cop bad cop Mr. Sweetie Pants. I was sitting there listening for about three minutes while he was talking about the four children all this but Koresh had explosives and live grenades and illegal weapons, 500 thousand rounds of ammunition was above them. It fell and crushed the children. No they had bullet holes in their heads And the footage shows Waco rules of engagement automatic weapons fire that's why I'm pissed Yeah but you're saying that they have five hundred thousand rounds of ammunition On top of them? Yes! They didn't have five hundred thousand rounds of ammunition I just talked to Clive Doyle

1:57:18 Oh, okay. And Clive is the expert on the total number of pieces of ammo? Yes! A bunch of kids, yes a saw stick. A bunch of kids got killed and that's why I got in that punk space and i don't care if he runs back and fills out some report on me! I don't care they sent somebody to blow my brains out because we don't start standing up for these punks they're going to take the whole damn country over they already control the whole world and this nation is sinking right now into authoritarian control And hey I'm not repeating the same thing over and over it'll be the same thing tomorrow We are in a police state It's only how many increments will we allow? What is

1:58:00 What will be the level, the decibel level of this slave state? So again the reason I got mad at that guy and totally forgot during the argument because I was so angry was I heard him over there talking about live grenades. There were no live grenades found there were a few dummy grenades that you can buy as a paperweight on your desk. You see them? And yes, they did sell them. You can go to an Army-Navy store and buy them. And the only live grenades that there were was the ones that the FBI launched into the air force? Yes! The FBI admits that they were firing ferret rounds—explosive incendiary rounds—into a place that they pumped CS gas into that's highly flammable! No wonder the whole place burst into flames! God! And you got that FBI stooge up there soft soaking to the media. I'm sick of him. That's why I got pissed off at him. Somebody has gotta do it.

1:58:48 Did anybody ask him a question about all the evidence that they try to suppress there at the scene such as bulldozing the cars? I was only listening for about three minutes. He was pointing to a pile of rubble that was the bulldozed bunker and saying, That was the bunker! Here's where she was going... here is where the four children died you know Koresh had all those guns and 500,000 rounds of which is pure bull. That's millions and millions of dollars in ammunition Yes! Five hundred thousand rounds of ammunition above them They were sitting there saying that and live grenades That's just pure lies! Close up into Clive Doyle one of the survivor branch Davidians who was in all 51 days and barely got out alive through the front And crawled out on the ground with burns all over his body

1:59:31 All the gun shows, I mean excuse me all the guns were at a gun show or 90% of them and think back to the Senate hearings with Arlen Specter or Arlen Spinkler. Think about this now this is very important Those guns weren't burnt. Those Mac-90s and weapons that they held up that were legal guns, semi automatic versions of the fully automatic versions... They were brown wood! They weren't even burnt! They just went and got some guns and just said it's all lies! When are we going to get sick and tired of this? Who's got the guns, Alex? Who's got the guns now. Where is the missing front door they showed because all those holes in the door were all incoming rounds from outside into the building and there are two white steel doors and one on the left is the only one that will show to public and the one on right with all of the incoming bullet holes as I'll show you this picture right here stop asking questions Right winger

2:00:31 All right, folks. We're back in 2022 and I hope you enjoyed our visit in 1998 to Mount Carmel. The Branch Davidians started coming on our TV shows about 1995-1994, telling their side of the stories. Are you there sir? Hello! Yes

2:01:25 Can you hear me Mike? Yes, we can hear you. Go right ahead I was just going to make a statement uh... i truly believe that David Koresh is a Christian and he believed in biblical love the biblical concept of the Bible. I think he truly preached whatever the Bible teaches, but this is just an example of what's going to happen to us Christians We are gonna be looked at as a sect of demonic beings or whatever because we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and i think that that's why the Lord says be prepared to suffer because i think were gonna suffer A lot of the same thing that David Koresh did with people who lived there at the camp uh...because

2:02:01 profess to be Christians and believe in Jesus Christ. So it's just something that they're going to show the people, that if you do profess to be a Christian and you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, this is just an example of what's gonna happen to those people who profess to be Christians." And that was just a comment I wanted to make. Well there IS a one world order coming into being...and when they have the one world order fully, there is going to be a religion that everyone will be expected to go along with and I'm sure it will not be biblical because they hate the...they go after the people that are studying the Bible.

2:03:16 Look, I know you came out and said that they did it all wrong. That's how it was planned with the helicopters to shoot first to create the crisis so all of you guys would open fire while your down the road crying Now thats how this works They're building prisons everywhere across this country We're going into a Nazi Germany type state And you better not get fired up and angry It's time to stop whitewashing all this and waffling back and forth. You've got to go all the way, and expose what has been happening because you know it is gearing up massively right now! And my family has been threatened the whole nine yards just for this... ...and that is why these people who have never stood up or really done something in their lives can't understand how real and hardcore this world is and what is happening

2:03:52 And now Reno's the head of domestic preparedness. They just fired Cohen, the Secretary of Defense from a job last week! He's a puppet over the military now? And Reno runs our military?! None of these people are gonna talk about that she passed her test This is a huge psychological warfare program A huge experiment for you The military The police The American people The media You're all being strung along and now is the time for people to start rebelling against it By 1998, Alex Jones was very clear on what happened.

2:04:41 in 1993. So we decided not to just sit around and talk about it, we decided to go ahead and rebuild the church for the surviving Branch Davidians where they could have their memorial services and their church service so September 19th 1999 We broke ground Alex was able to with his radio show and other contacts, was able to raise 250,000 of hard earned labor and materials. And we have a brand new church at Mount Carmel it was dedicated To the Branch Davidians on April 19th

2:05:44 2000. And as I speak, it's still standing and hopefully it's going to stand for a long time. Alrighty we also have a short message here from one of the Branch Davidians Catherine Madison which I dearly loved she wanted to thank everybody this was taken before her death uh I think she died in 2009, but this was taken before she died. Thanking the volunteers for coming up and rebuilding their church so there's a short message I'm Catherine Madison and I especially want to thank everyone who contributed to the building out of our common. I haven't gotten to Send every one say thank you know through it the rate. I'm going right may never But I do thank you

2:06:51 And I am very appreciative of what you've all done. It never would have even started with all you people that came in and took over and made it work. I also want to talk about the trial, they had five people for the so-called jury. Now a jury is going to be 12 or it isn't a jury this was just a scene like for a movie when somebody is trying to prove something. What happened was they would not allow us to say anything, the minute we'd start to say something that would show them up everybody run up to the judge and the judge would stop it of course he had made his mind up a long time ago He made his mind up before he ever started to be judged at our courtrooms

2:07:53 And he had decided what he was going to do. Of course, he did not give his verdict. He has postponed it. He doesn't want too much publicity in certain ways but everybody knows what he's like. Hey is for the government and certainly is not for us. I noticed when I went in and listened that they had men prepared to prove that We had done the first shooting, which was a lie. I saw the first shots and they came from the helicopters and they tried to say there were no helicopters that had done any shooting Well, I saw them! And I heard him...and they almost sounded like they were in my room They were trying to kill David That's what they were trying to do because that is how his room gets so full of holes They wanted us all

2:08:56 done away with, but there was no way they could do it. They tried but it just did not succeed When the trial was on and just before it was finished The lawyers told us that papers were going to be flying around In other words we were going to back in jail But they never did that either because there were too many people who were against them and for off It takes the people To help put things straight When a people does not stand up for the right, the enemies take over. And that's what had happened at MoCaMo. But they are more cautious now. They do not want anyone to group to get upset

2:09:56 The one thing that the New World order, the reason why it's taken so long for them to get to where they are is because they've been very stealthful. They have slowly and surely penetrated different areas, done different things to control. But they never have come out in full force. They're beginning to do that now because they feel that the people are not going to fight. Well I don't think it's time for guns. That time is coming but it isn't now. But to stand up and be heard... To stand up and tell the truth

2:10:43 to stand up, to educate other people what has happened. That's what we should be doing now! That is what I try to do when i get a call from all over the country uh... when they're telling me that I owe certain amount of money I always end up telling them about Mon Calo and they are amazed they don't even know it happened well its our job as people who know the truth to get out You know, people say well you haven't got the title. We don't need a title we are entitled to that land That land belongs to us and they're not I know when i see certain uh sheriffs They know I belong there They know that I've lived on their land for over 30 years They're not going to try to fight me but Let me catch your breath I'll edit it I got questions for you too

2:11:50 Well my question won't be, I mean my voice won't be on here but your answer is. That's alright A lot of people want to know what since the dedication how y'all been using the church and if you all are having services out there and all this say that? Well our job right now isn't trying to get in many people to come to church Our job is get ourselves in line so that when David comes we will be ready for that. Then our church will be used to its fullest extent." We do have people who come in and sit down with us, a few not many but I don't expect many now it isn't time for them you must realize there are times for everybody at different times for different people and if you read what Solomon said you'll know there's a time for everything

2:12:47 And when David comes back, which he will. Then it will be time for going after the ones that have been hurting the truth and hurting the people who want to understand the truth. There are many people caught up in one world government I am sure that want to get out of it and they can't! Once you're in they have you there solid So I'm not concerned about who is for us or who is against us. I sure appreciate all the people that I know, especially the ones in Austin and around the country that I met that I never would have met if that church had never been built We will finally all get together! And you know when people think now's a time to get a gun and shoot somebody? No You have to have a leader

2:13:50 in order to do a job correctly. If everybody goes and does their own thing, it's chaos! And that's what babbling is. You know yourself that the people who were supposedly running the show at MoCama when it was being attacked... The right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing and that's an absolute fact But anyway I want to thank everybody for all of your help and support You don't know how much that means because this place, Waco. The people are not... I'm not talking about everybody because I've met many people who are for us and thought it was the worst thing in the world that ever happened but the moneyed people here who are in control they don't want anybody here that is against them They wanna get rid of them But they have to be careful right now

2:14:59 And I'm thankful for that because someday we won't have to be careful. I won't go after them. Another question for you, Catherine there's a lot of things going around not on any of our shows and my voice won't be on here so just...you have to kind of answer the question where the people know what you're talking about but there are other shows on the same ACTV that were on that are now saying Y'all committed suicide and that you tortured the kids and all this can you respond to that? And please clear that up for us because we want to make sure that's cleared up Dan force come out, and it's kind of said there well many people have picked up what my bro started and Mark brosotted back in Australia he got a group of people together there that had been part of our group I

2:15:59 And he started to tell a story about how we were torturing the children and how we were abusing them, and how we were sacrificing them. Many of the people stood up and said that isn't true because they knew us, they had been here. That is not true! But out of the group that started there was eight people left, and those eight people with Mark Breaux, wrote letters to our ambassador in Australia and told all these stories that were untrue. And those were sent to the United States Britain all the places where there were people from that country and I often wondered why Britain did not stand up for their people a third of our people are from Great Britain but they did not stand up for them

2:17:00 A third of our people were black, and no blacks stood up for them. Which is very unusual. You know that. And the problem was they had sent all these terrible stories around to these different groups so they would not stand up for us. But then, of course when they start to find out the truth, then they change. There were no children sacrificed or abused Joyce came in. She was the lady that came in to check them out for the government, and I talked with her and she said you know your children are very smart. She said they answered every question They are very polite And she said I have checked every one of them there is no abuse on she said I could not find any kind of abuse

2:18:06 Now, I was glad that I had the opportunity to talk to her because she was the one who went back and gave the report. And she gave the right report but what happened they would not let that report out! But it did come out at 1030 one morning when they were talking They had set up for the meeting but nobody ever picked it up So how would you respond to these reports that are now circulating again, and believe me they're circulating again. That David Koresh was raping young girls and all this? Please tell them that you knew him and clear that up for them Catherine. Now I knew David when he was Vernon. Vernon came in in 81. He was a young man

2:19:01 In fact, he stayed at Mount Carmel and he would come into the big house and take a shower because the shower wasn't working. And I used to get after him because like all young men, he'd take his shoes off and throw them in the kitchen or wherever they happened to land in their socks you know? And I used to get after him saying put it in the laundry so that I won't fall down and break my neck David never did one thing that God did not tell him to do. David never did anything of himself, and I know that for an absolute fact. I lived there, and I was in the same house with him for years. I talked with him extensively before he became David and after he became David. There was none of this things that they talked about

2:20:09 That is ridiculous. God says rape is murder, He would not let anyone that is connected with Him do anything like that so you can forget all the rotten stories you've heard everything you have heard before was brought out by Mark Burrow who was trying to usurp David out of the position he had and take it over but he didn't have the ability He tried it one time. David was gone, and he tried to take over... He tried to sound like David! He tried to have the same format as David. Knee fell flat on his face I mean, I just got disgusted with him because he was not David. He did not understand what David understood. He was just out to be leader, the one in charge Well, it turned out to be a nothing

2:21:19 He's in Australia now. He did marry that girl and he wanted to marry, and I hope they're happy. How many people were in Mount Carmel when they attacked it? I hadn't figured out there was more than 80. There was one time where we had 150 there so I can't say for sure...I know it could be in the 90s And you lived at Mount Carmel over 30 years Yes I did. I lived there when Ben Roden was a leader

2:22:00 I worked with Lois Roden for 15, 20 years where we worked together and traveled together all over the United States. Went to Israel and to kind of think in the name on that side. I'll cut this out Katherine don't worry about it. I'm trying to think of a name of it. The island over there... Anyway, let me ask you some more questions because I'll edit it real good for you And put it on a piece. I'll send you a copy of the tape They're starting to come out with the same old story that David Koresh gave the order to Light the fires and they even got a tape of this supposedly can you counter? Can you counter this somehow but asked the question? I mean answer the question with that with my question You know is laughable what they try to do

2:23:08 I remember one morning David came downstairs. When he'd come down lots of times in the morning, it was and tell us something or because God had given him something to tell us and he told us... He said, God told me I was not to commit suicide for any reason! We are not to commit suicide for any reason!! And i know that anyone is stupid who's going to burn themselves when they could take a gun or something else and put them out of their misery, if they really wanted to commit suicide. That is not the way to do it! That is not the smart way to commit suicide- To burn yourself? That is very hard to live with! No... He never said light a fire for that reason. Now we did have a large

2:24:11 What do you call them when we used to light it for heat? It was a great big thing, about this big. We had two of them. Heaters? No it was something else that we used for heat. That's huge! And it just have gasoline or some kind of liquid in there Yeah because they're saying they found these gasoline cans and all this kind of stuff Gasoline cans because we had propane lights. We had them from the time over in Palestine I use to have three of them myself So that wouldn't be strange to you for them to have found the gasoline cans inside the church because they were using them for heat. Well, they weren't using that for heat but they were using it for light They could use it for light But these big things...they were from there to here Furnaces? No! They were like a tank That they'd light up and it would

2:25:17 to heat the room up. We had one for the church, one for the dining room and when we wanted to get warm that's where we'd go if it was really cold because we didn't have individual heating except we had something in our room and most of us could not, we were told we could not use electrical because our wiring wasn't safe he had put a special wire down in the end dining area so we could plug in a hair dryer and anything that would bring in and would use a lot of amps you know, a lot of heat. But that is just laughable. Well see this is why we want to clear up a lot of these there's even people on this network saying that like I said that one thing we just cleared up David Koresh tortured and raped children

2:26:25 Is there anything you want to say to correct that? Because there's people on this network saying that. Well, it was proven that they're not... It's not true! This has been proven! Joyce proved it! She went back and gave a report on it. Okay who is Joyce because a lot of people don't know. Joyce was the uh... Child protective? Well she was in the child protective but she also what was it The service. Child protective service? Yeah, but there was another service connected with it I can't think of the words Well, I'll cut it out

2:27:08 Well, let me ask you another question because I'll edit this together. What do you see happening with the land at Mount Carmel? What what do you envision? Do you want it back the way it was before or...what's your envision on that? We can never put it back to where it was! We can never build a building like how we did before. It is an impossibility! Why would we build a building that big?! We had 150 people to take care of then. We don't have 150 people now! Most of them died in the fire Oh, there are still nine in jail But if the nine came out and five of us is here How many is that? And then a few that's in other states came back here we might have about 30 36 But what do you envision? What do you want to happen with Mount Carmel Right now...

2:28:07 I like to see the people off that don't belong there. I would like to have a place of my own to live on there, but it's an impossibility for me because I do not have the means to do it and so I've just forgotten about it. I went around looking at trailers and saw a beautiful one but shoot! I couldn't even buy the cheapest one they had." What the best solution would be for everybody to have their own housing out there and have the community? Well, everybody would have to have their own housing. I had my own house before we built that big building so did some of the other people but then it got to where there were so many people coming in we didn't have a place for them to sleep

2:28:57 We didn't have a place for them to eat. The first thing we built was the place where we could have a kitchen and where we could have a place where all of us could eat because when people came in from California, and all over... When he asked everyone to come in, we had a lot of people there. We had about 100 people there And it would fluctuate sometimes we'd have more sometimes we'd have less but That's why that big building was built to accommodate everyone that wanted to stay there. As it was, there were four people in some of the rooms sleeping on bunks so I mean even though we had a lot of bedrooms... How would you respond to the people who constantly say well they had guns there? Sure we had guns because we're in the gun business

2:30:02 We had to find a way to keep ourselves above water so we wouldn't sink. We had to have a way to make money, so we did not have to sit at an 8-5 job and the solution was brought to us by Henry who came in and said why don't you go to the gun shows? And he let us use his license for... He let us use his license And he said, I'll show the boys how to do it. There is a gun show every weekend! Texas has always been gun happy! The lawyer I had told me that he had more guns than we had He said are they going to come after me? You never can tell you better be careful But there's people here that have That's what they were brought up on The children that were brought up in Texas

2:31:15 Even in David's time, it wasn't crowded the way it is now. Everything was overcrowded! You go into a city and so crowded you can't get around It wasn't like that when I first came here And it wasn't like that when Vernon was born He lived out near Thailand he was out in the country They went hunting rabbits and things Sure they learned how to use guns But I'm going to tell you something This, the West was settled with guns and this country was built on guns. What do you think happened when they...men who are heroes now? They weren't heroes in their day! They were traitors! They went after the English who was the ones....who was the government! And you know why they won?

2:32:20 because the English would stand in line and pull their triggers. These men, I read an article and it said when England found out how many men were shot during a very small period of time they were astounded! We won the war by being... what do you call it? The terrorists where they ambushed them.

2:32:58 Patriots? No, no. They use it now in everywhere when they want to take a place over... Anyway, they weren't formal army! Everybody took their gun and went out and shot somebody else That wasn't... You know they wanted to put Washington and all the men that signed the Declaration of Independence Do you know they wanted to put them all in jail?! Do you know a lot of them went into bankruptcy

2:33:35 because the people that were in charge got after them, tried to make them stop. How do you think they're going to treat people these days? They're gonna do the same thing. Economically, they are gonna hit them in many other ways." Well I'm trying to touch on all of these things that people are talking about lately okay here's another one that people keep saying and I hear it over and over and over That y'all were some kind of a cult can you respond to that Well, do you think the Christians are a cult? Of course they are. They believe in Jesus! One man in charge of a group of millions of people?! That's a cult!! Now how do ya fight that?? You can't. We were not a cult... we were a family. We were small enough to be a family and WE WERE.

2:34:43 and y'all got along, black white. That's right! Yellow red we had every nationality we had every color in there and like David said one morning he came in he said blacks I hate yours reds He said I hate whites He said you are not that at all You are light And that is what we are We carry the light within us because the light was given to us by David giving us understanding of God. So we're not black, we're not white, we're not yellow... We are light! And when you talk to us, you don't know who we are but we know who we are and so nothing that you do to the flesh can hurt us Oh it hurts the flesh but it doesn't hurt US because what we have stored in our brain

2:35:59 will take us through eternity. And I wish every one of you had that, but you've got to want it and be willing or don't. Thank you very much. Well, wait a minute I'm not through asking questions. Kathryn just be aware that this is going to play on AXS TV and there's about 500 thousand people hooked up to it so i want you to come out with it and tell the people because I am sick and tired of hearing these people that didn't even know David Koresh and I didn't know David Koresh but...I want you to tell the people exactly

2:36:43 what David Koresh was and the lies. Catherine, tell them! Hey I knew him... Well I knew Vernon when he first came He gave me the first five hour study just for me And it was before he and Lewis were going over to Israel They were going over to the office we had there Then he gave us

2:37:23 When he first came in, I should start here. When he first came in in 81, Lois and I were the only ones that sat and listened to him He gave a five hour study And it didn't make sense to me because I thought I was a student A Bible student But I'll tell you, I found out I knew nothing Nothing! He would talk about something that was in the scriptures and I had never even heard of it Well, he found out most of us were like that

2:38:00 We had a smattering of Bible, no matter how much we had studied. And I'd always been interested in the Bible from the time I was 15. We all had a smattering of...we had gone through...I had been a Baptist, I had been a Catholic, I became a Baptist, I became an Adventist and I thought man these people really know the Bible and carry it with them you know? I found out they didn't know nothing! Oh they knew the Sabbath and they knew the Kingdom that's about it And then I met Brother Roden, and I listened to him. And Brother Hodduff, I studied him. And then Lois...I became very friendly with Lois and I traveled with her and lived with her. After Lois, Vernon came out of the same. But Vernon knew the scriptures like no one had ever conversed with. Like I say that first day he gave Lois and me

2:39:14 5 hours study. He went away, but he came back and when he came back to just live there because he had heard that Lois was a prophetess and she was! And she had a message...and her message wasn't the female part of the Godhead Her message was the female The Bible says let us make man in our image male and female created he them If you stop and think about it

2:39:56 You know, the male. The Father and Christ? Where's the female?! Do you know where the female is?" Well that was her message and she brought it to us And it opens the scriptures like you have never seen Well when David came Like I say he was not a preacher He had had many experiences He'd had many times that God had spoken to him and showed him things

2:40:35 But he thought everybody had that experience. But he found out nobody else had it. Well, like I say, he gave that five-hour study to both of us and then he came and started to see... He was a...he built a race car when he was 15. He worked with his grandfather who had a business where he built homes and built businesses And he worked for him for years and years. And he could do a man's job, in fact when he'd go out when he was at Mount Carmel and he would go up to Dallas He could do...he was a finisher! He was a man that he could come in and he could do anything and he could do the most meticulous work. And he was good at his jobs

2:41:39 So he always could get one. And they paid him top money The problem was when he'd get so much money, he would quit and go out evangelizing He was a street evangelizer for the better He was interested in young people. He hated to see the young people going into drugs cigarettes and stuff like I say The next time he gave me a five-hour study was before he went to Israel, where he and Morris were going over to the office. And it still was hard for me to keep all this in. I could never give it to anybody. There is so much in it! I sat 10 years listening to David

2:42:36 show what the Bible was saying. He showed us Paul, that what Paul was really talking about people that uphold Paul don't even understand what Paul is saying! If they did they'd be astounded as far as David with the people The children loved David he come in and sit down we had a big chair that he sat in And the children always wanted to go up and sit in his lap. Does it, Catherine does it... How does that make you feel though? To see the reports out here that people didn't even know David Koresh calling him a pedophile, a rapist how does that make you feel knowing that's not true because this needs to be countered Because you know what I understand and what I know when I hear people like that I feel sorry for them

2:43:49 I feel sorry that they could be so stupid. You know, David told us what stupidity is. David said, stupidity is believing many things but understanding little. A person that talks about something that they do not understand is pitiful and they deserve your pity! Not your rage. The day will come when the rage will take care of them but not today You see, we are living in a time where everybody is choosing what they want to be. Everybody is choosing who they will follow. Will they follow God? The god of heaven or will they follow Satan the god of the world Most of them are following God, the god of the world and he will take anybody under his wing that he can get He doesn't treat him nice I mean

2:45:02 He doesn't love them and take care of them. He hurts them! He puts many diseases on his own people I feel sorry for the people that do not understand, and because they have an opportunity to understand They will have to suffer the consequences Now when David comes back They will still have a time where they can learn the truth

2:45:39 If they continue to turn away from the truth, they will go through the seven deaths. And one of the deaths by the way is like the flood where people were drowned and they would want to die and it would seem like they have died but they have not died, there are going to be alive and go through the next step so why should I be upset with people like that? I'm sorry for them I pity them. That's all. Okay, another question to explain... They said and it is still going on now because I just heard it the other day that David Koresh said he was Jesus Now what your opinion of that? Is that true or false? Well anybody who has studied the scriptures never said he was Jesus. I will tell you right now He never claimed he was Jesus But anybody who has studied the Bible at all knows

2:46:52 that Christ was considered the Lamb. Any true Bible student will say that Christ is the Lamb! Now when you get to Revelation, in Revelation 5 it says who is able to open the seals? And the answer is nobody in heaven nobody on earth and nobody under earth Nobody who has ever lived or is living in heaven can do it...nobody

2:47:32 But the book is in the Father's hand. And the book is going to be given to someone who can open it! The Lamb is the one that has given the Book, and people say, oh yeah that's Jesus up in heaven... That isn't Jesus but the Lamb IS Christ and the only one I know they can open the seals is David. I've never heard anyone that could take a whole Bible and put it together so it made sense

2:48:14 And everything fits together. It isn't something hanging out here that you say, what happened to that? Well, that doesn't matter. No. The whole thing goes together. Every prophecy that goes with the seals is explained. The whole Bible is explained. So I personally believe that David was God and will always be God Now, if you can't handle that I feel sorry for you. But that's your problem and it isn't mine. Okay but is that the consensus of all the surviving Branch Davidians? Or just your opinion... I can only speak for myself You'll have to ask them. You know, Ed has already talked about it Others have already talked about it It doesn't matter who believes in it or who doesn't A hundred people can believe something and they can be wrong That doesn't mean anything

2:49:25 I know it. I don't just believe it, I know it Anything else for the people Catherine? Anything to close it out because I need to close them out Well I've already closed it you can take that Alright anything else that I can add in there any other lies that you heard that you want to... Because I want make this to be Oh! I have heard so many and I'll tell ya what I do not remember them cause' I just put em out of my mind because I know where they come from They come from Satan

2:50:02 I'm not interested in Satan. But as far as you're concerned, the Branch Davidians that were living at Mount Carmel in 1993 were good decent people? Let me tell ya this... There isn't a person that's walked the earth who isn't wicked and we are the most wicked people God chose Sister White says he scraped the bottom of the barrel when He chose His people. So that doesn't make us very high, it doesn't make us very good but there will come a day when we will be pure and righteous and good and have the complete mind of God and there'll be no sin in us because We will have them clean and God will do it

2:51:10 And that's what I'm looking forward to. The only person who has ever walked the earth that wasn't sinful was Christ, and the record is there for you to read. Oh yes let me say one more thing... David called himself the sinful Messiah because God- Let me go back When Christ walked the earth they couldn't stand Him because He was perfect! Because he WAS sinless and HE could not get to the people

2:52:01 Even his own men, he couldn't get to them. People hate somebody who is perfect or even appear perfect they can't stand him but when David came to the earth this time He was not sinful and he was not pure and without sin. He was a sinful Messiah what he did? He committed sins that God told him to commit But he was messiah nevertheless

2:52:45 I'm getting tired. Well, that's good! Alrighty, hope you all enjoyed our visit to Mount Carmel in 1998 Thanks a lot and God bless and we'll see you next time here on Mike Hanson archives Just in case you don't remember Let me jog your memory In a church they called the Waco compound Back in April 93 17 little children All so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flames How many names can you recall?

2:53:55 Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder why? Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have we become so blind

2:54:33 17 little children finally open up your mind how did you sleep last night Bill Clinton tell me did you feel their pain cried out and perished in the flames. Attorney General Janet Reno, I accept your offer to resign How can you stand for law and order now when you won't answer to your crimes?

2:55:32 Seventeen little children, all so helpless and so small. Seventeen little children... How many names can you recall? Maybe we should stop an' ask ourselves if we become so blind Those seventeen little children finally open up your mind I've heard it said the Branch Davidians only got what they deserved Yet no one seems to know what laws were broke What was in the war and they never served

2:56:45 Yesterday I sold my TV set Stopped my subscription to the Times To be explained, to see the media Was an accomplice to these crimes Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder why? Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have we become so blind? Will seventeen little children finally open up your mind