The Global Fight For Fathers Rights with Alan Donovan

00:00 In this episode of the Team Superdad podcast, I talk the global fight for our children's rights to see both parents with founder of FathersLivesMatters Alan Donovan. Roll theme! Welcome to Team Superdad Real dads creating their best lives ever More time More money More fun You are not alone you're on team super dad Hey friends, family team superdad members all around the world. Welcome! Check this out I'm like... The camera is panned out right so you know never before have you seen the whole office although it's quite cool because you can see Superman poster there i quite like it maybe It feels a bit decadent it feels a bit like welcome to my universe but there is a good reason for this massive

00:55 The I was looking like massive in the camera compared to him. So, I fiddled about with it and we're going to bring him in just a second. Team Superdad is a community for dads, for busy dads all around the world. We are creating the lives that we want rather than the lives we feel stuck with and that comes through working on our fitness, our finance, our focus, our family and our fun really creating our best life ever

01:31 Because life's tough and quite frankly without good support, without tips and tricks, without people to have fun with then it gets tough. And as our world shrinks so does our experience of life and that was sadly something that I went through and my vision coming out of it was Team Superdad like what if we could put all the Skills, the knowledge, the coaches, the courses, the people I've known. What if we could put them all into one place and help dads to really turbocharge their life? And so that's what we've created. Team Superdad you can come and find us over at teamsuperdad.com and The Hero Academy which is a monthly success group gets on board!

02:13 Now then, tonight's guest. It's a real pleasure to have FathersLivesMatter on represented by their founder Alan Donovan and rather than talk too much about how we first met I'm going to bring Alan in and we can talk about it together because he sat there right now... Boom! Alan good evening to you sir Welcome, good to have you here. Hey thank you thanks for having me on and I'm glad we're finally able to make this connection We've kind of been bouncing around for the last couple years trying to make it happen

02:54 I'm laughing, right? Because the awkwardness and the embarrassment is slightly on me because we were chatting on Instagram which for anyone who's looking to really connect with FathersLivesMatters Alan is blowing up on Instagram with his message in his community so catch all of his live streams over there. We'll talk more about all those things But yeah, so as someone who's worked in digital marketing for 20 years and had his own social media training courses and everything. I'm rubbish at managing my Instagram inbox. I have to even, I have to remind myself where the bloody thing is and then oops there's Alan's message saying hey let's connect although in my fairness i did send you a couple of diary links as well back in the day. Well and also I gotta say now that I'm thinking about it and going back

03:49 We were actually scheduled to do it and I did not realize that you were over across the pond. And so, I totally had my times backwards and I was like 7 o'clock in the morning? What?! Oh jeez! Yeah we didn't we? We totally didn't. Yeah because... yeah you messaged me it was like seven in the morning I'm at work. Aren't we supposed to be doing this tonight? So some of that blame goes on me! Okay, good well we're still friends out out of it all yet so whereabouts in the States are you Alan? I am in Montana. So for our non-american members of the audience where the hell is Montana?!

04:30 Okay, so Montana is kind of sort in the Pacific Northwest. So you've got Washington right here and then over here is Idaho and then here's Montana. Okay! And what is I... What is Montana famous for? What can we expect to find in Montana? Well, lots of bears. Gold, silver, copper... Basically Montana's nickname is- well it has a lot of nicknames but one of the most well known ones is Big Sky Country because you know its just huge. Yeah big skies everywhere you go. Oh wow!

05:06 Do you know what my kids and I we were asking about that because we were on vacation. And actually, my kids were asking me about it but also I've been on a date. Yes brilliant! What's your name buddy? Xander with an S Oh, with an Xander. OK love that! Love that well hello to you over in Montana and we're over here in the UK so it's great to have you on board thank you yeah my kids were asking how old are you? 10. oh okay my boy Jago he's just turned 11 this week and my daughter Rosie she's just turned nine actually today it's her birthday today Well, happy birthday.

06:00 Not with a great deal of success and certainly not the kind of middle-of-nowhere, no light pollution big black sky bright shiny stars type experience which I think is what you're talking about. You know we used to have that but the light pollution even here is getting pretty bad so another 10 15 years? We're probably going to be on par with each other for light pollution sadly. Well that's another whole subject! Let's hope we're here in 10 to 15 years. Blimey! Well, Alan you know our paths crossed as we can see by the and I'll take this banner off in a minute our paths crossed uh as part of what was my journey um My wife and I separated in 2015 And oh in fact This two days time the 5th will be five years since that fateful night

07:01 But despite my desires to simply get along and share the kids, it was not suggested that I was going to be able to do that. And that led us to call and a fight for me to share access to my children. In that pursuit of information because I'm a bit of a fixer right? I want...I wanna know what's going on. I wanna know how to get myself out of this situation Some might say to win, you know. I'm not altogether down with the idea of winning 50% of my children's time like that sounds when people celebrate when their situation has gone well or turned out right

07:46 I don't get on my soapbox about it, but there's no winners here. If it's worked out then great! Over time hopefully we're all going to win but it's not a them versus us. But in that search I came across yourself on Instagram Would I be right in saying that was kind of early days for you? Yeah. Great, yeah so tell me about... and basically just before we get started on all that thank you because to feel some connection with other people in that same boat, not only was it a not alone but it was a worldwide thing oh my gosh! That blew my mind but we can talk about all those elements but tell us a little bit about your work and where it started

08:34 So basically, you know my situation was a lot like yours. I found myself going through a custody dispute you know? I did what most dads do and went out and hired the first lawyer that i could find not really understanding that I should probably vet the lawyer And, you know kind of get an idea of who I'm working with rather than just grabbing the first one. I could and i did that and it turned out to be a huge mistake we got into court and my lawyer said maybe three or four words and uh...I got my butt kicked! And I got out out of court You know? I had just lost basically custody of my son he was going back with his mom

09:21 And I got home that night and I started looking for help. You know, I started thinking you know i'll jump online and see if there's help out there and you know what I found? I found that for dads there's pretty much nothing out there for help now had I been a mother...and this is in no slight to mothers at all But just, you know the truth of the matter is had I been a mother there would have been help for me in every area i could possibly think of. Rental help, cell phone bill help everything! There was advocates that were helping mothers for free and as a dad I couldn't find it anywhere and my first thought was

10:28 Wow, you know I had just found Instagram and so i created this page called Fathers Lives Matter. And you know when I first created it I really didn't have an idea of what I was going to do with it It was just...I created it, I left it there for a couple days and then I thought you know what? I'm gonna use this try in and foster support for what I'm going through And so then I just started posting, you know the stuff that i was going through. You know when I first got to go down and see my son I posted about that and that's what I did! And um...I went down to court six months later to where my son was at after my initial court visit or my quarter parents up here uh representing myself because I had fired my lawyer and I took that monumentally huge task

11:27 I'm going to start with a couple of things. First, I want you to know that I am not trying to be a bad person or a bad father. What do you mean? He goes, you're going to lose. You're going down for court and you're gonna lose. You need to just accept what they are gonna give you." And at that point they were only offering a week out of an entire year so I would have been able to see my son in the summer out of that entire year and that's all they were offering. It hurts that here is my dad, my own flesh and blood telling me that I'm gonna lose

12:19 And I said, well you know whatever and i went down there and walked away winning. That gave me 50-50 custody and then about a year later I was back in court again and I walked out of court 20 minutes later with custody of my son. And I've got this Instagram page where, at the time, I had maybe 1500 followers. Something like that? And I had this decision to make... Do I close this down and get on with my life or do I take all these experiences and wisdom that I have accumulated and start helping other fathers? Ultimately, I made a decision to start working with other fathers

13:03 And to this point we're now three years removed from that, you know and I've worked with thousands of fathers around the world helping them with their situations. So it's been pretty dang incredible i gotta say! That's awesome there's quite a lag Alan so if you're worried about me sat here looking at you there's quite a lag... Oh did we lose connection? No no there's just a lag sorry all I heard all of it it just was it was just might look a bit weird. Now I can still hear We are like 5,000. I can still hear you i'm gonna see if I can private chat... I can still hear you okay uh yeah Adam we're just going to carry on so that's how it played out oh looks like we're okay yeah well right is it better now? Yeah well I can see you and I can I can see you and I can hear you I think there is a little bit of some sort of lag between the two of us Can you hear me now

14:21 Yeah, I can hear you now. Oh! It's funny there is a big lag between the voice and the picture which may cause us problems we might have to work out how we can fix that. There we go. Okay that seems little bit better it seems real time now Yes, almost. Almost yeah so let's carry on and see how we get along So again what year was that when all that was happening with you and the custody stuff? That was 2015 is when that all started Okay great! Exactly at the point you were at was where I was getting started and was where I found you here And people who are in this situation

15:09 It is a worldwide thing pretty much, from Israel to Australia all across Europe America That's a Viking. It's everywhere, I've talked to fathers in the Philippines and Vietnam you know all these what we would consider third world countries undeveloped nations however you want to look at it and they're dealing with it there too so it is truly a worldwide issue And it's important to say, you know because when this subject comes up quite often people will say yeah what about the dads that don't care? What about the dads that are absent? What about the dad that hits their wife or the kid or whatever and

15:56 That, it's not to say that subject isn't real or present or not okay. It's just not this subject. Yeah exactly. The way I look at it when I get those questions because I do get those questions you know a lot of times when I post something on Instagram I'll have a mother come in and say, well you know what about the dad that is just the deadbeat dad? The actual real dead beat dad. And my response is always yeah there's going to be dads out there that are like that You know, there's going to be mothers out there that are like that. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about these dads that want to be part of their childrens lives. These dads who are fighting to be apart of their childrens lives but they aren't allowed whether it is you know, the mother not allowing them in court system or combination of both of them It happens

16:52 And the weird thing is in most countries this is the case and just on a positive note, Scandinavia some recent law changes in Italy there are countries I understand Australia's has improved a little bit over the last couple of years. Certainly from my experiences in the UK The court was more favorable to my situation and interested to hear from me as the dad. And I know that other dads are increasingly hearing and experiencing the same thing in courts, so it's good that that's happening but i know in the states its really tough with

17:30 Payments to mums and access being limited in the most stringent of ways. I mean, to offer you one week a year your boy could have spent more time with a chaperone at summer camp? Yeah exactly Dan! And they were perfectly okay with it. To them that was an acceptable thing one week out of the year And, you know at that time I lived 2000 miles from him. So traveling down there is going to take one day. Traveling back is going to take one day so realistically it would have been three days that I would have had with him and its just not acceptable...at all. No not at all! And even taking the other extreme because out of my first court case I ended up with about 60-40

18:26 So someone might say, oh well what does that look like? Okay well it looks like 12 days out of 14. Okay but then when you start to add it up all of a sudden that's 30-32 days over a year so that's a month okay so that's a month less and then any time that something needs to be arranged like could I just have them an extra night I'm like, no. Or could they come to a sleepover? Or could they come to a Girl Scout thing, girl guide thing you just like well... No! Like i'm not going to let it sneak up to 40 days or something like that and the amount of tension and upset and oh my gosh there's so much pain that comes from this um what was it like

19:14 And say as much of this as you feel appropriate or comfortable about, but has your son shared much about what it's meant to him to be able to spend that increased amount of time with you? You know we talk about it obviously he admits this as mom. You know, and that's... you know I understand that. And he actually got to see his mom for the first time in almost three years this last summer. She was finally able to make it up here and you know he understands the situation and he understands, you know, the sacrifices that I had to go through, you know, to get to this point in life. He loves us both and I encourage that

20:00 You know, I encourage that relationship with his mom. It was never a thing where I didn't want his mom to be apart of his life You know, it was never that. And thankfully we've been able to get past the aggression and the negativity we had for each other you know effectively co-parent basically where I view her as a good friend close friend now rather than viewing her as say an enemy or something like that But Xander, he understands what's going on because I let him know what's going on. For me that is a huge thing because I was the product of divorce and really nasty custody battle when I was his age and the difference between him and I is I didn't know what was going on

20:55 I didn't have a father that told me what was going on. They sat down and had that conversation with me, all as I knew is I was being yanked here, being yanked there everywhere. And so I make it a point to keep Xander aware of the situation and what's going on And to me, that's only fair that he has that understanding and he is able to grasp what has happened. What has transpired? To put us into this position. Yeah. And how... again not necessarily the personal details but in terms of getting to a stage where you have quite a positive

21:39 A positive co-parenting relationship with your ex. What have some of the breakthroughs been to create that, that someone might try themselves? Well you know I think the biggest breakthrough for me was taking the time to look through his eyes and see how he sees everything and you know to honestly take his opinion And listen to it because I don't think that's something we do enough with our kids. We look at, especially things like this because it is a very emotional topic and we think well you know what? We're going to keep our kids out of that. We're going to keep them out of the loop and in certain instances yeah I agree but if there isn't a lot of complexity

22:31 You know, I'm all for sitting down and having a conversation with your children and letting them know what's going on. And then honestly listening to what they have to say and taking that to heart. And I think that was the biggest breakthrough for me was being able to listen to what he had to say, listened to how he felt about his mom and how he misses her and how he loves her. And knowing that okay going forward I have to do this this in this because it's gonna be very detrimental to his well-being And I've talked to a lot of parents that didn't take that approach, that kind of made their ex their personal enemy. And I can tell you this it always rubs off on the kids and it's never in a good way. It's in a negative way and it screws the kids up

23:19 More than if they had just been strict. And so that's kind of the approach that I take with it, is he always knows what's going on He watches me do these podcasts He listens to me talk to these fathers He hears the advice that I give them because I want him to know what's going on and have you know full knowledge Of everything basically yeah, I think I could summarize that in You Want To Honor His feelings his love for his mom Exactly. Yeah, yeah and for most people I would hope that breaks through like hot water on ice like our windshield in the winter when we spray it whatever the hardness is towards your ex I would hope that putting yourself in the eyes of your child who would most likely say just like you guys to get on because then their life is easier

24:19 Oh, absolutely. And one of the other things is I look at his life as an investment. You know? I'm invested in his life to make him the best person that he can be so later on down the line when he becomes a parent you know he's got that moral foundation that I helped build and his mom helped build. So we both look it at... Look at it as an investment in his future You're literally the blueprint for his relationship with his children. And if I take my experience of that, um... My dad made some shocking mistakes! But the good thing is i can frame what I do with that in mind whilst taking all the good bits and saying I want to keep that and then I'm going to better that

25:11 And it's cool when I chat to American people, you know. I've got a lot of family in Chicago and a great deal of my parenting style comes from them Which is actually a very Irish background. My family in Chicago, they come from our side which is English and then the Irish side so as well as having about 60 odd cousins in Chicago there's a very strong family values but then you know the communication and the sport thing...I don't think generationally

25:48 Those guys got spoken to by their parents as openly as what perhaps you're talking to Xander and I do with my kids. But, I know the amount of fun that I had with them when I was growing up in their house and the amount of communication that happened just like your saying, I never knew from my dad why I was getting told off! Even when stuff went down I never knew, like okay well your mum's died. Okay right anyone gonna tell me how or why? No she's dead and it's sad but we're gonna be okay and by the way we're never going to talk about it again! Never gonna talk about it ever again

26:33 You know, and the other way that I look at it is by me being open and honest with him on pretty much all levels. You know? I hope that gives him the ability when he needs to talk about something He knows that he can come to me in full disclosure And not be worried about what he has to say because i'm going to be open and listen You know, and I'm not just brushing it off to the side or anything like that. I think that's as you know just as important as well. Yeah open heart open arms open ears it's all about that relationship in the communication yeah wow you're...you know what? In some ways we're talking about this like it's really normal and

27:27 And I know that it's not, you know. I know that not every parent has that skill set and i'm definitely not saying I'm awesome, you know? And I know that you're not saying you've got it all nailed either but these kind of conversations...I've learned from my experiences as a young person being a child. I've learned from my experiences an adult reading From my marriage breakdown, from seeing other parents, from looking at my children growing up and thinking how do I want them to see this situation. So it's all a process of evolution basically. I guess on the subject of evolution what's next for FathersLivesMatters and the impact you want to make in the world? Well so last winter i started

28:18 A podcast and it's The Father's Truth. And when I started that, you know my whole goal was to give fathers a voice everywhere and you know that is really taken off. As far as what i'm looking at over the next year...I do have a book in the works two books actually um and then i'm also looking at turning The Father's Truth into more of a documentary kind of series You know something along the lines that can be pitched to Netflix. So I've got my iron there and trying to get that all worked out but other than that, just helping fathers man! That's...that's my passion. How close are you to Minneapolis?

29:02 I am, well yeah we're about 500 miles from Minneapolis depending on which way you travel. Yeah totally there's a guy I interviewed last week right called Nick Askew he does this thing called soul biographies search it up i'll send you the link afterwards right soul biographies he is amazing absolutely amazing all black and white And it's quite intense for the person who is being interviewed because they're not actually being interviewed. He creates this, the setup and he just leaves them to talk and it starts quite uncomfortable It seems but then people just open up in a kind of naked type way. So when he was explaining where he was in the States I kinda had a feeling

30:00 somewhere heading towards you basically. But he could be quite a good guy to connect with and so I mean okay, in terms of like the global reach what's been some of the cool stuff that has happened as a result of creating FathersLivesMatters? So, obviously being able to talk to you. That's awesome that you're over there in the UK I've met so many cool guys that... You know, I call friends and brothers that are in different countries Sweden, you know, the UK Italy All these places where had I never done this Had I never stepped out of my comfort bubble and created this thing I would have never known any of these guys

30:52 So to me, that's awesome. To be able to say hey you know I talked to Aaron in Sweden the other day and everything is going good and have these guys say hey there is Alan Donovan, FathersLivesMatter he helped me out You know, that makes my heart feel so blessed and so full that I'm able to do this because the way I look at it honestly Jonnie. I'm a nobody from Montana who just got tired of the bullshit and I didn't want to put up with it. I didn't expect you'd be where I am right now absolutely didn't. No, that's brilliant! And how... Just have a... Yeah check it out man, you've got eleven-and-a-half thousand followers on Instagram? Yep. Odd like 11 1500 followers

31:40 But also, do you know what? No no I appreciate that. Thank you but i'll tell you that's an important message though overnight success does not happen overnight 2015 you started this five years you know that's consistency and commitment yeah yeah and there's been times where during the summer I will just leave it Yeah, yeah. Well, your logo helps. It's a great logo I think if it's okay with you, I'm going to use it in a couple of... I think just where it's appropriate is like a badge isn't? It looks very official doesn't it? You know and the funny thing about that logo when I started FathersLivesMatter I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do for a logo and one of the things that I do on the side as a photographer

32:55 And when my son was really little, we had gone down to the lake and we did our handprints. I put my handprint in the sand and he had put his handprint in my handprint so that's a picture that's actually our hands. That's my hand and it's in my hand. I'm just trying to find...I can bring up on the screen if I couldn't find them whilst you're talking I'll find it But you know, let's just... oh there it is. Brilliant I can bring it up and let's just do this but um interesting in terms of what's going on in the world and dad's rights and you know what can you tell anyone that's listening? Just about is there a shift? Is things getting better? And also maybe give some context to that as well because what are we fighting for

33:50 So, you know and it's hard to say from a worldwide scale. It's going to be a long battle from what I see from talking to the people I know in other parts of the world where dads have no rights. You know it's hard for that but in the United States it's slowly shifting You know, it's very slow in how it's shifting because over here the courts are supposed to judge what is in the best interest of the child but unfortunately most of the judges still use their own opinion and automatically most of the time their own opinion goes to the mom.

34:29 There's been a lot of cases that have come through Florida, for one as a prime example. Year before last they were trying to pass a 50-50 custody bill straight out of the gate and it made it as far as the governor's desk and the governor vetoed it I don't know why but it's very slow you know? I don't think we're ever really gonna get a shift in things until we can efficiently get all the dads together And, you know we have to be able to do something big because I'll tell you one of the biggest things that i've noticed in doing this is fathers are awesome about talking about what's wrong and talking about what needs to be fixed but overall we suck when it comes to taking action on that.

35:15 And I don't mean that negatively because I know the reasons why. It's very easy to be able to... Like, I'm talking to you right now about this and talking about all the things that need to be done to change something but when push comes to shove and you're standing up there and by doing this, you could possibly be putting your visitation at risk. A lot of dads get scared because they don't want to lose what little bit of time that they get with their kids And I know as well, it's the groups instead of coming together we're fragmented by our circumstances. So you've got those guys there who don't want to jeopardize the little bit they've got and you've got other dads who are so burnt out by the process they just given up and then someone like myself who has now got 50-50 and is so relieved and so exhausted by what it took to get

36:13 The idea that I'm going to rally and create a parade in London or, you know... It's it. I just want to get on with my life and that's the problem is that there needs to be something where it keeps being pushed through And here in the UK if you can create a petition and if more than 150 000 people sign it has to get read out in the Houses of Parliament, which is our British political house. And basically the same petition goes round and round but it's not the same one petition it's the same subject so ends up getting five six hundred maybe a thousand maybe two thousand signatures if you could put them all together he'd probably easily have to 150,000 but because it's so fragmented it never gets enough

37:06 And we were talking about it a couple of months ago, someone was like oh we need to do a march. We needed... Do you know what? We don't need a march! We need a parade. You know like gay pride is, you know it's like when it's gay pride everyone parties? Well who doesn't want to party! Like if you're going to try and make a statement you need to be like actually dads without trying to be better than mums or whatever we just enjoy hanging out with our kids. We want to make stuff, we wanna skateboard, we wanna ride our bikes Painting or whatever. So the idea is that, you know actually we need to have a World Dad's Day where the celebration is of dads but the underlying message is equality for all parents Yeah no I absolutely agree and like what you were saying with the signatures You know and everything being read in Parliament We have something similar here where if you get enough signatures, I think it's 100 thousand

38:04 Then the White House has to officially take notice of this. And they've tried it numerous times, you know? It'll get maybe 25-30 thousand signatures. You know there was a guy couple years ago he was a veteran, a Navy veteran he walked I think it was like 1,000 miles and he was trying to bring light to this situation and then it was cool for about a month about the time that it took him to walk And then it just kind of disappeared from the news. And it's been that way constantly over here, I know you know...I've reached out to different news organizations on behalf of fathers that have been working with and they won't touch it with a 10-foot pole! They just will not touch it

38:49 And it's sad. It's truly sad because it shouldn't be this way, you know? Dads shouldn't have to be fighting to be a part of their children's lives and their children shouldn't have to cry from not having their dad in their life! Yeah... yeah, it's a bizarre one I think politically people don't want to jeopardize the woman vote they don't want to alienate all the feminist groups Because one way or another, the feminist groups are way more powerful than the men groups. The dad groups I mean apart from like yourself and I and Fathers for Justice in the UK there's not a huge body of people you know... You'll get many women who will say oh i'm a feminist! You won't get many men saying i'm a Dad's activist or like it's not part of your definition of who you are and what on what you do

39:44 And we just mentioned, because for anyone watching this I was just on the Fathers Truths with Alan basically flipping this around. And it's just really evident that men aren't as... or I guess what I'm saying is that this is not stigmatized In the same way that other aspects of what happens in society have become stigmatized, whether it's Me Too movement rightly stigmatize. Whether it's drink driving rightly stigmatize even smoking cigarettes

40:23 Like, now if someone sparked up a cigarette on an airplane you'd be like... Arrest that person! Everyone would be horrified. But 20 years ago there used to be, now if you were in row J you were in non-smoking and if you're in row M you're in smoking. Right? And that was the norm back then. What's that about?! So we have to go through that process where this idea Kids, when there's a breakup this idea that kids instantly don't get to see one of their parents needs to be horrific to society. Well you know and over here one of the big things is we have an entire generation of fatherless children that are now raising their kids

41:11 and their kids are fatherless. And it's just this really nasty cycle, if you look at the statistics now this is just for the United States but the number of crimes drug use teen pregnancy suicide all that is just through the roof and its attributed to these kids being fatherless. And it's, oh man! It breaks my heart when I hear this kind of stuff because it doesn't have to be this way you know and one of the most common questions that I get asked is, Alan how would you change the system if you could? You know what my answer is take the dollar out of the equation. Because when you really look at it at least here in the United States The family court system is built on the almighty dollar

41:55 And it's sad that when you go to court, you're not a person. You're not this unique individual at all and neither are your children. When you walk through those doors, you know, you're a number on the docket somewhere. All you represent is the financial aspect of the system And I really truly think that if that was taken out of the court system and if the court system was rebuilt so it looked at, you know, the effects on a child not having their dad in their life or not having the mom in their life versus what the effects are. If both parents co-parent effectively, It would be a totally different thing. It'd be a totally different world. Well especially when you add up the cost. I've been involved with some stuff in the UK around making...

42:46 forcing the subject onto the agenda in the UK government. And some of the documents that I saw, they were talking about the cost being over 100 million a year to the UK taxpayer because doctors, hospitals police time off work and the actual child court then you got CAFCAS which is the UK sort of Child Protection Body there's so much money goes into looking after this problem, whether it be the cost of medication, the cost of a police call, the cost to the counselor and so much doesn't need to happen. And you are right that lot other people would argue for this change if the change came

43:35 The body that they represent, whether it be the court or the child protection group or the legal firm. They would all suddenly stop getting paid! They would be out of a job and over here they take it a step further and when you were on my show we were kind of talking about conspiracy theories And the first time I heard this I was like no way that can't be true so basically what it was is Every time over here in the United States there is a child support docket that is enforced by a particular court, that court gets kickback from the federal government. And I was like no, that can't be true. Lo and behold it is! It's part of the Social Security Administration Act so every time a court has a dad or mom

44:24 On the docket and there's a child support enforcement order, the court gets kickback. So really when you really look at it it's in the best interest of that court to have as many parents on child support as they can get and get the max amount of child support because they get a kickback from the federal government now tell me that's not good stuff That's horrific, particularly when you look at the impact is actually generational. Generational impact on our society through and again it's important to sort of take gender out of this so that as much as possible because it's not actually just about dads doing this to moms or moms doing this to dads there are parents out there who are being struggling to see their children and

45:13 The generational impact of that is huge, it's absolutely shocking. The mind boggles really as to where this whole subject ends. The media needs to pick it up somehow and make more of it, and maybe it'll take someone famous to die maybe who knows? But there have been celebrity parents, celebrity dads who've been through this but maybe that's not enough either Well you know and I had thought when I first started

45:51 The same thing, you know if a big-name celebrity was going through this then maybe it would be news. Okay Brad Pitt one of the biggest actors in the world he's going through it and never hear about it outside of like TMZ or you know the entertainment section It's never front page news ever! It does not matter That's a bit sad really, isn't it? A bit of a negative trough to take ourselves into. But actually as I sit here kind of racking my brains kinda thinking where do i take this conversation now that that's actually the reality is like as dad's involved in this subject I know so many dads groups and stuff that where they come back round to

46:38 Oh my gosh, we're back to square one. Where do we take this? Where do we take this now which goes back to what you were saying earlier is how do you keep the momentum up to actually bring about this change I feel that somewhere in amongst all of these Single parent groups, I said i don't like that term but that's what they're called. They are single parent groups on Facebook, they are single parent groups on Meetup or whatever It is something needs to happen in amongst those groups where the people who are running the group say you know what people This needs to be a bit more positive. You can't just say all dads are this and you can't just do this, so when I'm in some of those groups they are some of the things that i will say and particularly as far as Team Superdad goes

47:27 I've moved away from it being about a single dad community because actually, it's about a dad community. It's about having loving relationships in our lives and whether that's co-parenting with our ex or falling in love with someone new or maintaining a really awesome relationship with our wife or our childrens mother... That's actually the vision for me and so I guess here's a good question for you. Have you come across any positive mothers groups that are really aligned with you? Yeah, actually i have there are about four or five mothers groups bonafide mothers groups um that follow me on instagram they are awesome you know and basically what they are made up of they're made up of stepmothers

48:20 You know, that married a guy and then they found themselves dragged into this whole family court thing. And now they're fighting right alongside their husband for these children! There's about four or five of them that follow me but as far as you know I don't want to say just mothers rights groups because it's so innocuous as to what it is Like how you feel about the whole single parent thing. I don't want to categorize that, but you know the stepmothers are the big groups that follow me because our voices and what we're trying to do almost align perfectly. Because they're there for their love for their partner who's going through it basically so they are emotionally connected and empowered. Well listen when... We'll have to share that on email or something

49:17 Get them on the podcast or talk to them. When we get off here tonight, I'll send some info to you that way. Amazing! So you spoke briefly about what the future is. In what way can people get involved, just as we're heading towards the end of the podcast tonight? In what way can people get involved with FathersLivesMatters? Tell us these two things actually... What do you do for dads and how could people get involved? One of main things that I do with dad's, I do coaching one-on-one

49:57 It's looking at the court aspect of what the father is dealing with, teaching them how to dress in court. Teaching them how to respond to the judges. Teaching them how to engage with their ex in a productive manner Whether it be email or text. I do a lot of stuff like that, not being...I'm not a lawyer obviously so let me get that out there right now! I cannot represent any fathers but you know i can focus you know i can work as a third set of eyes for these guys You know they just may be blind to because I'm not emotionally invested

50:38 In the situation, so I can look at what's going on and say hey you need to start looking at it this way and maybe try this with them rather than doing this. So that's one of the big things that i do as far as reaching out to me The easiest way to get a hold of me is Instagram It's FathersLivesMatter Pretty well known on Instagram easy to find Send me a DM. I always answer my DMs, you don't have to worry about sending me a message and wondering if there's somebody else that is going to read it – it's just me! So that being said, it may take a couple of days to get back to you because on a daily basis I usually get anywhere from 100-150 messages per day so I've got to try and go through those and weed them out so it does take some time You can go to thefatherstruths.com

51:29 That's actually my official website and it's got podcasts up there. It's got my personal information, it's got my business number how to reach out to me I do have a Facebook page but I don't really do a whole lot with that it kind of acts as a dumping ground for everything from Instagram and I think I have a Twitter handle? I honestly don't know... I think I might've been on Twitter way back in the day but I don't ever use it Good to grab it before someone else grabs it yeah Yeah exactly Yeah, brilliant. And just finally like what's the rest of the weekend hold for you and Xander? I love the idea that you're out there chasing bears and stargazing... What's the rest of the weekend hold for you guys? When we get off this podcast we are going to go into town and go to this great little Cuban Mexican restaurant called Mama Blanca's

52:24 We're going to have dinner and then we are going to go down and watch trains. We both love trains, and we haven't done it in a little bit. It's funny if you've got a second I did a photo of my son when he was two years old that was up in a place called Essex which is near Glacier Park And it's a picture him sitting in front of a big diesel engine Montana State Board of Tourism actually bought that picture and it was up in Chicago, Union Station for a couple years. We're going to go watch Amtrak tonight come through maybe do some opal hunting. That's another thing we like to do. A couple years ago we started finding raw opals along the track

53:15 Yeah, and so far we've got close to 200 pounds? I'd say 250 pounds. We've got around 200-250 pounds of raw opals that we've collected over the last couple years. So that's kind of a hard thing to do on the weekends. Do you know what, I love that right! You know like having that thing... And I encourage dads to do this particularly if they've gone through a separation is The first thing is, no matter how much time you've got with your kids is find a thing. Some kind of routine, kid's love routine something that they can count as that thing I do with my dad because it's such grounding, it's such reassuring comforting as well an opportunity to laugh and joke and do the old familiar

54:07 Yeah, kids love routine and to create that with your child. And it goes back into that idea of we are creating who they're going to be as parents in the future and it doesn't always have to be something new or something expensive or... It's just kids love hanging out with their dad and I really acknowledge you for the fun you're having with Xander Absolutely, it's the time and the memories. It's really stuff that he can do later on in life with his kids as well. And you when your grandad. Yeah, exactly! That's brilliant Alan it has been a real pleasure I have absolutely loved this and love being on your show earlier. I look forward to some other collaborations or wherever this adventure will take us to next time sure when i bring the team SuperDad live I'm qualified firewall constructor and we got some other stuff like that which as soon

55:09 Get back in and start doing these things in groups of people. I can't wait to have you over and be part of that! Absolutely, I would love to do that once COVID goes away. Heck yeah! Awesome good well thank you Xander for letting us borrow your dad for the last couple of hours. I really appreciate that enjoy the rest of it oh thank you buddy real pleasure Thank You and until next time Alan take care thanks a lot Absolutely, Jonnie. Have a great weekend and thank you very much we will talk again! Yeah all the best bye guys thanks so much for joining this Team Superdad podcast we are on all your favorite podcast places Apple

55:52 Google, Spotify, Stitcher. Wherever you get your podcasts you will find us just by searching Team Superdad, Team Superdad Podcast with Jonnie Jensen If you've watched this until this time then thank you so much if You are on the replay then give us a hashtag replay So we know you had joined us This is Something I love doing. It's Saturday night and there are other things that i will do on other Saturday nights, it just so happened Alan is over in the States and he works during the week so this was the best time to do it If you know people who you think would be a great guest on the Team Superdad podcast, then hook me up with them. Send me their name or if you're watching and want to come on then the same thing just private message me. Come over to teamsuperdad.com and leave me a message there whatever it takes give me a call you can find my phone number all over the place hopefully not too many public toilets! And that's another story eh? Thanks so much for being here tonight this is Jonnie, Team Superdad out bye

56:56 This has been Team Superdad. Find us at teamsuperdad.com Join the program and create the best life ever for you and your children! You are not alone, you're on Team Superdad