The Amazing Benefits of Journaling - Expert Hangout Podcast

00:00 It's the Team Super Dad podcast and we're talking about the amazing benefits of journaling and in this expert hangout I'm joined by Moira Mackey, Dale Darley and surprise guest Andrew Priestley. Role theme. Welcome to Team Super Dad. Real dads creating their best lives ever. More time, more money, more fun. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad. Good evening. Welcome to the Team Super Dad Expert Hangout. My name is Jonnie Jensen. I'm the founder of the Team Super Dad programming system. We are equipping dads to create their best life ever and especially busy dads, which is fact is all dads.

00:43 If you can introduce me to a not non-busy dad, then that will be a first for me. Or they're just not a very good dad, basically. Today is an expert hangout, which we do on a regular Monday night. But it's also part of the 28-day habit challenge. And there is a amazing habit that can be picked up by anybody called journaling. And I guess some people might associate that or know that more as like writing a diary. But there's many different ways of journaling. And I wanted to include this in the 28-day habit challenge. And so I put it out on my socials. Who do I know that journals on a regular basis? And thankfully, such is the power of having lots of contacts across the socials.

01:28 Two wonderful women were introduced to me and we've had lots of chat this week. And good for you as well as myself, because I'm always learning when I have these conversations. We've got two experts here and they'll introduce themselves in a moment, but Moira and Dale. Curiously, as you can see from our names, only people with alliterations of first name and surname are invited on tonight, which did make it more of a challenge. But anyway, we succeeded, as you can see. Actually, it looks quite neat, doesn't it? If you had OCD, it looks quite lovely. So yes, like I said, it's a real pleasure to have been introduced to you.

02:09 Dale, would you like to do yourself justice by introducing yourself? You know, tell us how, you know, what you do for work and where you're based, because Moira and I just found that out. And how you came to be a journaling coach and expert. Okay, so I'll start with where I live. So I live in Spain. I live in a teeny, weeny little hamlet in the middle of nowhere. So the region is Almería. But where I live, no one will have ever heard of it. But it's absolutely glorious. It's quiet. I'm surrounded by hills. And as someone who's a writer, this is for me, because I love silence.

02:46 This is the perfect, perfect spot. So I came here about six, no, exactly six years ago. It's almost to the week that I upstyx and drove here with my then two dogs. So I've obviously had to change the way that I work, but I still do a similar kind of thing. So I still help people write books and I do the journaling side. So I call my stuff writing to heal. So healing all your whatever your stuff is, and then writing to heal the world in whatever way you want to call healing. So, you know, if you were doing, I don't know, conflict resolution in Teams, for me, that's healing.

03:27 But my healing is much more kind of like emotional and mental, you know, spiritual, physical, that sort of thing. So, and I've been journaling, I think, ever since I was born. I can't remember a time that I didn't scribble on things. Yeah, I love it. I was trying to remember for you today. And I was thinking, when did I start? And I know, you know, for me, journaling has always been because I needed to clear the clutter in my head. So it's been for a long time. Okay, awesome. Good. They got that. Now, I can see Andrew Priestley in just in the waiter room as well. So I might, it looks like he's just picked up the phone, actually. So maybe I'll hold tight a second there.

04:08 But just to pick up on something you just said there as well, which I think is really interesting for the Team Super Dad community. Just you said, in the way that I work, you've created a whole lifestyle for yourself with online courses and your businesses online, which is your website looks fantastic. The course structure looks amazing. And I know from the way that I got introduced to you, people rate you and have taken a lot of value out of the courses that you've created. So I hope that's inspiration for anyone that's listening to this. Obviously, it's the Team Super Dad community, but this is being streamed all over the place. So mums, this isn't not exclusive to dads at all.

04:49 Just amazing that you've, I guess, followed a passion. You've got a lifestyle you enjoy. You're living somewhere that you love and you're still making money and doing stuff that's adding value to people. So absolutely. absolutely brilliant thank you maybe we'll get you on another day and you can we can talk more about that whole online business side of thing as well because that falls into the finance and wealth section of the f5 uh which is the the core part of team superdad so uh well i'll bring andrew back in when he gets off the phone but moira same as well let's introduce you and and talk a bit about uh how you came to start journaling and what you do Yeah, well, not living anywhere as exotic as that, although I was born and brought up in Zimbabwe.

05:30 So I am powered by sunshine. And the journal that I'm going to release is called Journal Safari because it's kind of inspired by that whole process of when you go on Safari. So I'm based in Hertfordshire. I'm a leadership team and career coach. And essentially, it's about I'm on a mission to help people thrive at work because we spend so much of our life, don't we, at work? And they can be pretty grim places or they can be amazing places. And if your work's not working, often your home life isn't working and vice versa. So my MSc in executive coaching is like the whole person.

06:09 It's a relational coaching program. So it's all about who you are, how you get in your own way, how you show up. And I think I just hate the word professional. I just prefer the word authenticity. And I think that something like German can really help find who we are. Or like you said, Dale, it's about clutter. You know, German can be sort of Marie Kondo for your mind. It's like clear the clutter and find out what's underneath there. So yeah, that's me. Yeah, awesome. And you just said before we hit the go button, when you're working with business leaders, it's always telling for you the business leaders that are already journaling or have some kind of notebook that they pull out.

06:53 It's like a measure of a success model, an indicator of success. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a ref, you know, it's any form of reflective practice at all. So yeah, it is. I can always tell when they get the little book out because I often provide like sort of little A5 journal or something, just bring, take them with me. And the ones that go, no, no, don't need that. Or yeah, I'll take yours. That looks nice. But, you know, essentially they've got their own. Then you know already they're in the groove for thinking about what they're doing and how to get better and how to flex to whatever's going on. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so important because as

07:29 a tool, you know, as a tip or a piece of knowledge, when I interview people, when we do these expert hangouts, that's really one of the intentions of this is that if we can give people examples that success, you know, we can model success from those that are actually achieving some of the things that we want to achieve, then that's the best way to achieve success ourselves. If it was running, we might want to talk to someone who's won a gold medal in an Olympic. Or if it's business, we want to talk to someone who's grown a business or led a business and actually had that success that the rest of us strive for. So it is so important that we notice those nuggets that are out there. Bedtime is one that comes up so frequently for me when I speak to

08:14 successful people in any field. They're like, oh, yeah, well, I go to bed at this time and I wake up at this time. And actually, the time they wake up is really early. And you can't get up really early and you keep going to bed really late. Yeah. Yeah, there's a rhythm. I think there's a rhythm that people work out what is it that works best for their whole system, you know, their body and their mind and the relationships and the results that they've got to get. So yeah, they've thought about it. Even if, I mean, people say, oh, well, that's not naturally me. But over time, leaders coalesce around something that suits the environment and the goals that they want to achieve. Yeah. Well, you get that with illness, don't you? Like, I don't want to be a vegetarian. Well, if you keep eating meat, you're going to die.

08:54 Oh, okay. Give me the vegetables, please. You know, we do it. Oh, Andrew's ready now. I'm going to bring him in. He's giving me like double thumbs up. Here we go. Actually, a surprise guest, a bonus guest all the way from sunny Kent via Australia. Andrew, awesome to have you on board. Thanks for joining us. Man, what a conversation, man. Oh, man. Like, I can't believe the sort of stuff that you just covered in five minutes. But sorry, I'm so rude. I was all ready to chat and I got this phone call from a client in Norway and I just take it. As you do, I'm name-dropping. No, it was perfect because I could see I was waiting for Dale.

09:35 I was waiting for Dale to finish her intro. And so you're in the way too. It was perfect. Andrew, it's awesome that you've, I've basically hijacked your evening. So thank you for being so generous with your time there. We were on a mastermind earlier this week, the Change Your Game Business Accelerator, and you were doing. money mastery, like a you know, understanding your cash flow and balance sheet. Absolutely amazing session. Thank you. And just in the middle of that, you dropped in, oh, yeah, well, I journal every day. And it was, it was so casual a reference, like that's just something that you naturally do. It was, it was a, it was a like, obviously, I'm going to just mention that like everybody else does, but no, not everybody else does.

10:18 Yeah. And so it was, it was, I asked if you had a couple of tips to share on text, and you said you'd jump on here. So absolutely brilliant. Andrew, you're a business coach. Do you want to just introduce yourself briefly? Yeah, I'm a business coach. Okay, that was pretty. Also, a bloody good one. I'm a business coach. I specialize in mentoring leaders, business leaders. So I'm a visiting lecturer at CAS, London School of Business, big controversy over their name at the moment. Don't ask me why, but anyway, I do that. What else? I'm ranked in the top 100 entrepreneur mentors in UK, which is that was pretty amazing.

10:59 And I'm the chairman for a children's charity. So I sort of devote myself between that and doing the children's charities. Absolutely brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. No, listen, I've brought you big now. So we've all on the screen together. So it's always, it's interesting when you've got four people on the call. I'll host and manage this as best I can. I think the best way to start this is like, why do people journal? What are the benefits that people get out of it? I know from the research that I've done, people talk about mental health, and you've, Dale and Moira, both mentioned about an uncluttering your mind.

11:35 But from your perspective, and we'll start, Andrew, seeing last in, first up, well, what are what's, and we'll go around and you can share your perspectives each, but what are some of the benefits that you find personally in journaling? And first of all, how long have you journaled for? I started journaling in 1976. So I was at university and I found I had a lot on and it started out as to-do lists, right? And then that graduated into goal lists. So I was writing down my goals and stuff like that. And then I got pretty annoyed because some of the goals weren't handling, coming off mainly about girlfriends, you know, stuff like that.

12:15 It just wasn't gelling. And I was sort of, why isn't this working for me? Right. So I started journaling in that timeframe. And then I found firstly, I didn't have to hold a lot of stuff in my head. I could get it out of there and just put it in the journal and just not even worry about it. Right. And then I just got addicted to it. So these, these are, oh, look at this, look at this, look at this. Just some of the ones. Journals, big journals. Some of the ones I've got. But when I came to the UK, I had boxes and boxes and boxes. And I spent six months scanning them all. Right. So going back to 1975, so they're all scanned.

12:58 And so they're all electronic, right? And so these are probably some there. So if I need it, and then I went through and I did an archive. So if I'm looking for something like my mum's fruitcake recipe, right, I can just type that in and it'll go find it for me, which is just, it's just phenomenal. But that is phenomenal. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, the thing is that because I was involved with business, for example, you know, like, look, look at this. I was having a bad day there. Look, frankly, right? Yeah. But, but, yeah, and things like if I'm trying to figure stuff out, I do a lot of diagrams, loads of stuff like that. So I'm figuring stuff out in my head and almost like road testing it. But

13:44 the thing I discovered was, as I just think, from a diary, I then decided to be super honest, which is one reason I started scanning because I thought, no, I don't want this is just me working stuff out. It would be, I'd be mortified if anybody read any of these journals. So I went through them. And like everybody in life, you've had some ups and downs. I've had some pretty painful experiences in life. And it was just a way to work through that, right? You know, so things like I got better and better at my writing. So I started, I found I could journal better if I went in columns like this rather than trying to go across the page.

14:22 I started journaling in galleys. So it's a lot easier for me to go find stuff and I'm not letting you read it, Dale. Look at Dale, Dark. I haven't read that. Taking screenshots. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, there's everything in there. I just put all sorts of stuff in there that, but, and then I found stuff like when I was thinking, oh, when you came on there, you mentioned spirit. Look. look the first universal spiritual passbook right bank account right it was I was on this spiritual journey to our most valued customer Andrew Priestley

15:03 a thousand respent a thousand percent I'm responsible bonus club a new river of life boat no judgment crashed It was all this sort of stuff. And, you know, I wanted to have a lot of fun. So I started introducing a lot of color to it. And I experimented with that. And look at this. Look, you can, I did a psych degree, right? And one of the things was we had to go and do stuff in an internship in a rehab clinic. And I thought I was just going there to observe. And they were having none of that. So, and I found pretty quickly that, you know, there was a lot of stuff that came up for me, like anxiety.

15:43 And, you know, like my dad was in World War II. And I have a name for what it was now. It's probably post-traumatic stress syndrome. So, you know, as a kid growing up with hyper-vigilant, you know. So, you know, stuff like, you know, compassion. And this one here, I was trying to journal. What qualities do I like? So, so, I mean, it's just, it's just, it's just wonderful. But, but the other thing I just wanted to add here is that what absolutely throws me is I'm looking at a journal from, say, 1980, 1985, for example.

16:25 I think, God, who was this young man? So, you, you know, you go back through, there's a real treasure trove. And, you know, I started journaling dreams, just whatever, whatever it was. And then what was that woman that did the artist way? Julia Cameron. Yeah, so her 12-week thing, and you do the three-day morning, the morning, whatever it was. But, you know, it's just, I could, I just could go through loads of these. And then they look, they change size and shape. I found, I found things like, where are we here? It looks like I've shanghaid the conversation, doesn't it?

17:03 No, no, it's perfect. Because in so many ways, this is going to throw us into different areas of conversation and we can double back and actually put a pull on how that came to be. Yeah, so I was trying to work out, I was trying to work through here as a big dip in my life, you know, big, big, massive dip. And then I got into systems development. So I started unpacking my life in terms of a system thing and looking at that. And do you think, Andrew, that was as you were taking on board knowledge and skills and experience, that was evolving your journaling and it almost helped you process the knowledge you were acquiring.

17:42 I think you nailed it. That's well spotted, Johnny, because that's exactly what happened. But, you know, like I was working through a lot of stuff, you know, and it was working through information, working through my own stuff. More importantly, for me, the most valuable thing was working through a lot of painful stuff, as well as good stuff as well. You know, like I journal good stuff that's happened, like, you know, my grandson's third birthday. Great. A lot of lovely stuff there. And I look at, I look at, I can go back and read journal entries I had about my kids when they were three. And I think, ah, I forgot all about that. Wow. You know, I hid my son's bike in a shed and lost the key.

18:22 Bad father. Do you know, straight away, it makes me think about that adage or that expression, you know, when was the best time to plant an oak tree like 25 years ago? When's the second best time to today? So if anybody's hearing this and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, all that stuff's gone. Well, okay, fair enough. I could try and recount some of it, but clearly the best time to start is tonight or tomorrow morning. Well, you know, Johnny, I was interested one time in what I actually could remember. So I got a book and I put a page for each year or a couple of pages for each year, right from when I was born right through.

19:02 And then I said, okay, today I'm just going to see if I can remember anything from when I was one. Either what somebody told me about me at one or what I could remember. Well, obviously, my earliest memory is my mum had passed out on the floor. It was in Australia. It was a heat wave. And my mum had passed out and I'm in this high chair. And why won't anyone notice me? Anyway, several years later, still got that dilemma. The unanswerable question. But it's amazing. It's amazing if you just do that exercise and just start with the years that you've got and you'll be surprised at what happens. And when I talk to my sister, my brother, who I chat with my brother and sister every day, and we just have a bit of a laugh

19:44 about various things. But it's amazing what they remember that I've forgotten. But, but you know, if my kids ask me stuff, I say, Yeah, I know that, and I'll go find it. Like my sister said, Where's mum's fruitcake recipe? I said, I know exactly where that is. When did she give it to you? 1991. She gave it to me because that's where I found it, 1991. So it was in there. So, yeah, it's a delight. Do I spend a lot of time on it? No, I just put stuff in. Some mornings I write a little bit, but I try and do a little bit each day and just capture notes and stuff like that. But it's fascinating to go looking back. The scanning thing for me was important because so many of the things I journal were around business and a lot of lessons around stuff that I went through.

20:25 And I thought, I've got to capture this while I remember it. It's almost like a case study thing. So somebody was asking about a dilemma. There's a real dilemma we've got right now. You know, there's a dilemma that's here. And this is not a time to get too political. But, you know, the Charities Commission, I have to be incredibly transparent with what I'm doing with the Charities Commission. Okay. So you can't run foul of the Charities Commission. And I learned this years and years ago around things like governance. And I was working with high-end life and limb scenarios. I was working with civil aviation and with the government, with military, all that sort of stuff.

21:02 And one of the things I learned was about doing due diligence. And before you jump on the boat with anything, before you just jump on a bandwagon and get all emotionally caught up in the speed, and we've got a couple of things happening in the last two years, particularly one that's very fresh at the moment, which everybody's jumping on. And, you know, to me, it's, and I'm getting the sense I should be on it. And that to me is because I've learned by reading my journals, I know that it's a red flag to say, slow the going down, do your due diligence before you just jump on this and just see where this is going to go, give it time. And that was something I learned from many, many examples because I journal those things.

21:43 Well, wisdom, the power of wisdom is one thing, but being able to actually utilize that wisdom is another thing. Yeah. Yeah. My journaling taught me, mate, don't make big decisions after nine o'clock and before nine in the morning. I make terrible decisions after nine o'clock. Come on, Tucker, but loads of journals, different shapes, different sizes. Is there a sort of thing? No, I chose journals that I could lay on a flatbed scanner. Right? So these ones, they look nice, but I can't scan them without having shadows everywhere. And it was important for me to catch stuff like that.

22:22 Little ones, they're good. All different sizes and shapes and colors. And, you know, it's not the diary. That's what gives it flavor. You know, it's like a cookbook. I love cooking. That's what makes that's what makes life interesting. Wow. That's amazing, Andrew. Thank you. What an introduction. Blind me, I'm blown away. Dayo and Moya are like, no, I'm not doing something. I'm looking at the channel. I'm looking at you guys at home now. Get a journal, okay? I'm looking at you. Are you journaling?

22:59 I think that that's so brilliant, though, that you've laid out all the different ways that journals can be, because I think that's one of the barriers that people have. I talk all the time about the fact it's not about having perfect grammar or, you know, right, and it's not for anyone else, and there's no rules and all that kind of stuff. And you've just laid it out beautifully, all the different things that you could possibly do with journals. And there's even more. I mean, but that's inspiring for people to look and go, oh, and I love your one year of your life, one page, one year of your life. That's something I've never heard of. And I'm thinking, oh, yes, I like that idea. You know, so always learning.

23:38 Yeah. Yeah. It was important for me, Moira, because there were things that happened. And I thought, did I imagine that? Or did that actually happen? You know, so it's not always, it wasn't a lot of my journals haven't always been happy things to think, but I needed to weigh the process through them. I need to work it through a lot of business stuff, but a lot of personal stuff as well. So yeah, well, memory is an unreliable thing, anyways. You probably realize when you talk to your siblings, everybody's got a different view of what happened at that Christmas dinner, right? But it's good to go back. Yeah. So, but here's the question: should they be black journals like mine or should they be coloured? What do you think? Well, I think you should have a selection.

24:23 I think you should write depending on. Oh, look. I approve of orange. It's my corporate colour. You guys, you guys are really lucky that you can go and buy beautiful stationery. When I lived in the UK, talk about stationary porn. I had. I'd go anywhere and it would be like, oh my god, journals, journals. Oh my god, oh, look at that one. Oh my god, that's so beautiful. I live in Spain. Little yeah, you can have you can have an AIB. But that's what it was. If you're watching this, you've got to send Dale a journal. Oh, God, you do. And, and, and I want pens and other pretty things, please.

25:05 But that's the value of the value of, yeah, there we go. It's all Andrew's journaling stuff. The value of this is that I'm looking forward to my presence. Yeah, the pens are the pens are awesome. People shouldn't get stuck on what they're going to write. They shouldn't get stuck on what they're going to write it in. They shouldn't get stuck on how much they're going to write or how long it's going to take. You've basically covered an hour's worth of conversation in 10 minutes, Andrew. But it's perfect to be able to dig into it because I was really wanted to get across in this session, you know, why people journal, like the benefits of doing it and what they get out of it, and then get stuck into some of the hows and why people come unstuck.

25:50 Dale, in your work with people, it sounds like obviously we've got Moira here who's perhaps a bit more business focused and you're a bit more the creative and sort of pulling out your life experiences and stuff. Where if people are uncomfortable about starting journaling, what should they do to get past that? Would they say, oh, I'm not really a writer, I don't know, doesn't come out, doesn't flow out of my hand well. How do you approach people who feel like that's a struggle for them? Well, what I like to do is try and get people to find an environment that they feel comfortable in.

26:28 So I do write in bed, but when I look at the environment that I'm in, it's cozy, it's comfortable. So if I pick cozy, comfortable silence up and take it to the downstairs lounge, it's cozy, comfortable. And so for me, it's about environment. So for some people, I find it shocking that they could possibly write in a cafe with loud music. But you have to find the right place for you. So the right environment that feels good. So that's for me, that's the first thing is the right environment. And then is to look at journaling in lots and lots of different ways. So when I first came to Spain, I pretty much was in a mess.

27:08 And one of the things I did, I don't think we had Facebook lives back then. So one of the things I did every single day is when you've got a new leader, you talk about their first 100 days in something. So I said, right, my first 101 days of being here, I'm going to talk into my phone. And I went out every day. It was hard. I can remember going on holiday with my mum and taking my dogs to the top of a hill and on queue. There's something wild going on outside. But I can remember this one day. I'd left my mum, I'd taken the dogs for a really, really early morning walk and I broke my heart about something that was going on.

27:58 So for 101 days, I talked into a mobile phone and then I listened back and then I wrote in my journal. So for me, it's you've got to find the right environment and then the right medium. So it might be, if I take my mum as an example, in her early 60s, I bought her a journal of pen and a book on how to write a novel. I think, I don't know what happened to the journal, but she's now subsequently written eight books. So her method of journaling was to write novels based on her life. And what is really, really super fascinating right now, she was 82 last week. And she said, oh, she said that I hadn't bought her any books on her Kindle.

28:41 So she went and found this book that she had written when she was 65. And it was full of angst and pain and just the whole crap of her life. Like my, my, my, I mean, I adore my dad. He was a womanizer, alcoholic, you know, not the kind of man you want to be married to. I'm writing him already. You're what? You like, he was great. I tell you what, he was great fun, my dad, but yeah, he was a bit of a boy. Best friend. Clearly, if your mum wrote a book about him, yeah. She had all this stuff in her book. And she said, because there was nothing on her Kindle, she took this book down and she was massively embarrassed about the anger, the pain, the angst, and the whatever.

29:24 And what has happened recently is that she and I have been having conversations about what's in her book. And it's quite fascinating. Her. life mirrors my life because she lived in a conflicted environment. I was like, Yeah, ma'am, so did I. So, coming back to answering your question, it's finding the right environment, the right medium, and it's not getting hung up on rules. I go to bed every night and I pick up a journal and I might write a word, a sentence, I might write reams. I do things like I have Oracle cards for prompts, I've written like tiny little books that have got journaling prompts in.

30:09 You've just got to find the right way that's for you. Um, and something that I find that holds people back. I mean, Andrew, I'm in awe of you. Like, you've got like 600 years full of stuff and all indexed and cross-indexed. And when I left the UK, I got all of my journals and I burnt them. So, one of the things that people massively cathartic. And what I do now, it doesn't really matter about these journals because what I do now is on a full moon, I will burn. I'll flick through, and if there's anything that's like a business idea or something that's worth keeping, I'll keep. But I send my angst to the universe because I don't want to read it.

30:54 I have kept my spine fractured a couple of years ago. I do still have those journals, and they are to remind me of how strong I was, how resilient I was, how I managed to heal myself. But everything else, burn them. But do you know what's powerful about it? We've got the opposites here, haven't we? Yeah, exactly. That's what's so powerful about it is that the value. I asked the question of Andrew, like, what's the benefit of you for journaling? We learned so much about how Andrew has processed his knowledge, his life experiences, and it's an access to making decisions now in the present.

31:35 Dale, you contrasted that beautifully with this is about expression and tuning into yourself. And for you, the power in that is in letting it go and passing it on to onto the universe through burning them. And what's important there is that the benefit is clear and evident to you both, and you're able to access it through journaling, even though they're so different. And the other thing I can't, you can't say that, Johnny. No, don't you endorse Dale? That's not right. This comment has not been endorsed by Andrew Priestley.

32:14 I have a ritual. Jim, do you know, years and years ago, I tell you, the question was a really good one. How did I get into it? I also had it role model to me. A guy called John Drews, who's a really famous Australian artist. When I went down, he had a country property and he actually bought an old boat shed. When the river went up and flooded everything, they got rid of the boat sheds and he bought one and he turned that into his art studio. But one part of his A, he never let anyone in there, right? And but he let me in there because we were both illustrators and did drawings and stuff like that. And he had the most amazing library of visual diaries going back from when he was a child.

32:54 And much like Moira, your bookcase behind you, there was just, you look at it, and I just, it was, it was a richness that I could not, you pull any book. So it wasn't words, but it was drawings and illustrations that informed his paintings. And I could understand why he kept it, right? But maybe you create in different ways. But, you know, I found this: Monty Roberts. Do you know Monty Roberts, the horse guy? The horse whisperer. The horse whisperer. Have you heard of the horse whisperer? Monty Roberts, right? So Monty Roberts, I caught up with Monty and I was asking him stuff and blah, blah, blah. And he gave me a whole thing about horses. And apparently, we're very much like horses, right?

33:34 You know, he was talking about, you know, how we, you know, some of us are horses' asses, you know, but you stand on the back of the horse. But he was talking about that. But the thing about moving a horse in circles and stuff like that got me thinking about circles and about stages and cycles in life, right? And it's a funny thing. I developed an idea around the difference. We know we talk about inner child, for example. So I did a lot of inner child stuff, right? And then I was getting nowhere with it. And then I realized, actually, we've got an inner grown-up, which doesn't come out much, right? Because we're talking about the adult, but you and I, we all know adults who they're just kids masquerading as,

34:17 you know, the chronology doesn't tell me whether they're a grown-up or not. It just tells me they've reached an adult thing, technically. And I really wanted to play with that. But it's funny how you get two different things and then they come together. That was a. and you had access to that because you journaled. I couldn't, I couldn't get rid of journals like that because I go, wow, that's because I look at that still, and it's still got an energy to it that shapes and informs what I do with you know, vulnerable children today. Yeah, I do keep some stuff that I get downloads like that. I turn them out, she's backsliding just to make you feel make you feel better, Andrew. Come on, Moira, back me up. I keep my stuff,

35:02 but I don't scan it. So, there's a big off here, there's a big cupboard that is just full of, I would say, shit, but actually, it's valuable treasure, Andrew. Moira, when you're working with in businesses, right, and you and you get resistance to this subject, how how do you address that? You know, especially you're talking to business leaders who probably think they know it all anyway, and plus, you're coaching some people down the chain as well inside of teams. So, actually, there's quite a lot of value that could everybody could have from this from this journey in their individual roles, the team, the leadership.

35:39 When you hit resistance, and interestingly, I'm guessing from the responses I've had, do women find it easier to journal than men? Well, answer that inside the question. I mean, you've made a whole set of assumptions, and you did it right at the beginning as well. You said today, you said, Dale, you deal with the inner stuff, and Moira, you deal with the business stuff. Yeah, that's the biggest problem. You are a whole person, you don't leave a bit of you at home when you go to work, or at least not anymore. And the point is, well, we never have, but people have tried to, and that tension has pulled people apart, but also meant that work

36:21 people bring their patterns of relating to work. In fact, we bring our family of origin to work and the way we fit in. So, when I talk to leaders, I talk about attachment theory. So, how do you have and about how they fitted in with their how did they get attention? What were they recognized for? Stories come out like the high chair story, like that. You're the center of your universe as a child. You'll take it that your mom's not taking any attention of you, you know, poor you when something's probably happened to her. So, the stories that we tell ourselves. And so, working with senior leaders, it's about what's the story they're telling themselves, and what stuff do they need to let go of in order to be more collaborative, to be more compassionate, especially for men.

37:09 They may have grown up with parents who grew up in the war, for example. And there's something traumatized about the whole parenting model there. And then they bring that to work and they become slightly sort of neglectful and they close their doors and they don't give feedback and they believe in things called tough love. I'll go and go, No, there's only love. If it's tough, it's something else, but it's not love. So, I'm actually called as the love lady because I talk about love at work a lot. And so, it is about feelings. If somebody's resistant to that, I love it. I love watching people get a little bit uncomfortable because then I'll say to them, Are you uncomfortable?

37:52 And they'll want to talk about other things, maybe. But actually, I find men really, really just want to go, Oh, thank God for that. So, in my coaching, men are much more likely to cry much quicker than women, just non-scientific, but still, that might freak some people out here. They're listening and they go, I thought this was gonna be about journaling, and now you're trying to get me crying. Like, the access that there's there's an access to doing that, there's an access to knowing themselves better and being a better leader. And journaling is an access to that's a vehicle to get. Yeah, my definition of journaling is putting emotions on paper. So, it's it's different for everyone, but essentially, we always come back to who we are.

38:37 And so, the other thing I compare it to is mindfulness. And so, I think it's a version of mindfulness. And the purpose of mindfulness is not to sit on the mat. The purpose of mindfulness is to allow us to be more resilient and more responsive and more aware in the moment of what's going on for us. And that's the same with journaling. It's not that the act of writing this stuff is not the point, it's what the process and what accrues after it. Like, Andrew, you've got 20, 30, 40 years of stuff that is coming back to you. Um, there's a richness to it, Maureen. There's a real richness to it, yeah.

39:16 That's what, and I think that's so that's why I've called my book Journal Safari because it's a journey and then it's about revisiting it and looking back at it. at it and making different meaning from it. So, um, but your feelings are always there. That's how our brain works. We feel first and we think second. So, if you think you're making a wise decision, you it's what's your emotions doing underneath it. So, yeah, and I know from because I do enjoy writing, right? I've always written quite well. And if I'm going to write, if I'm going to write to someone or if I've got something heartfelt to write, then I will make sure I always write it with a pen rather than type it because actually my feelings and emotions and thoughts come out more fluidly through a pen than they do through typing.

40:08 And I can, you know, so I can recognize that in myself. There's a level to which I'm connecting with my true being, my true feelings, my true words in actually writing those letters right now. I'd probably add on what you're saying, Johnny, and what Maura was just saying. There's a bit of a disconnect if you're typing, journaling. I've never been a fan of typing because there's that, you're putting one extra piece in there. You know, there's, you know, you can look at the energy that comes out of your handwriting for a startup. And it uses a different part of your brain. So typing goes into your automatic memory. So you can type, just like, you know, when you drive, it's possible to drive a few miles and not even remember where you've been or how you've got there, especially if you live in the same bloody town you grew up in.

40:53 Yeah, it's now in automatic memory. I'm a touch typist. I can type without really thinking. But handwriting still requires something else. And then there's the energy and there's the mark making and the scribbling and the doodling. I mean, my these are what I work with. When I go to teams, they all get a box of these because it's inner child. Yeah, crayons. It's in a child. So it's about letting go of this idea that it has to be sophisticated and that it has to be careful. And there's a process of letting go. My role is to get people much more comfortable with what's underneath. And therefore, it's about letting go and being playful and experimenting and that kind of thing.

41:41 And then all the stuff that comes out underneath because there's like layers and then what's underneath is really interesting. Andrew, I like that one. I agree with you about the leadership piece because I work with leaders as well. The only thing is I'm probably, unfortunately, I do use a bit of tough love because I have some guys and I say the only one you can do is journal it. Oh, I know. I said, I'm not asking you. That's what you're going to be doing. You're going to be journaling, right? And they go, oh, no, no. I said, no, no, no, no. And I said, if we're going to talk about this, we're going to have an argument about this. I'm not charging enough, right? So if I say do it, that's what that it is, right? And there's that sort of, it's a bit of West End theater, right? Yeah. But I just say real men journal.

42:26 Well, you're from the southern hemisphere like I am. So I just say I'm being very Zimbabwean right now. And when I'm saying I'm from Zimbabwe, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I just got. Yeah, just wait till I have a couple of red wines and then the accent will come back. Well, listen, guys, I'm a good example of this, right? Because I've started to journal. I've started a journal written. I've started to journal in Evernote. I've stopped. I've started. And I have a coach now. We speak and have worked together for the thick end of a year.

43:09 And she's pulling her hair out around like, why? Not just journaling, Johnny. So I would be getting the kick up the ass here, basically. That's what I'm doing. I've got a question for Dale. Can I ask a question of Dale? Yeah, go ahead. You said something that just gave me the heebie-jeebies, right? Burning diaries, because I have this dilemma. Moira, maybe you can help me too, right? Because I've got all of these, all of these diaries, which I've scanned and stuff like that. Part of me, I don't want to let go of them because it's a big part of my history, right? But I also think, you know, John Drew said to me that the National Gallery in Australia, the National Art Gallery in Canberra, they knew that he had visual diaries and they wanted to requisition them as a bequest, right?

43:55 To have, you've got an artist with a living end-to-end journal from right when he started his career, right through his career, right? Which is such a rarity to see somebody, what they would do, them what God only knows. I don't know what anyone would do, but I think, God, would I want my kids reading that sort of stuff? And so there's that real pull. What do I do, Dale? Do you say, once I'm gone, that's. that's my request that they get shredded, or do you scan them and put a passcode and let them spend the next 40 years trying to figure out the password to get into them? Or what do you do? So, if I were you and I had kept and collated all of those things,

44:38 what I feel is if someone finds my journal and they read something they don't like, then that's tough on them. So, in your case, I would bequeath your journals to your kids and say, fill your boots, kids, and let them, you're dead. I mean, you're, you know, your spirit is still hanging around and you know, you can in their ears and whatever while they're doing it. If it were me and I had written all that stuff, I'd just let them have it. Because when you're dead, what do you care? And you know, what an honor. When I think about my mum's books, I haven't, I've read a few bits of things, but I know that when she goes, I've got part of my mum to read in that stuff.

45:22 And I would hate her, you know, although she's turned them into novels and we've discussed them at length. That is such a beautiful legacy for me. I don't have kids, you know, I don't have anyone in my life, but my dogs, they can't read. So, if I, if I were you and I'm not, I would, I would hand them over. I mean, on the thing of someone reading them, when I was in my last relationship before I came to Spain, I remember this one day. He'd done something really horrid to me, and I got out my journal because at that time I kept my journals. And I got out this journal, and I went, I've asked for all of these things from the universe for the right man.

46:05 I said, I've got you. And he just went, Be careful what you wish for. And I thought, oh. And at that point, I remember thinking, Do you know what? It was an awful relationship. I thought, do you know what? If you read what I've written about you, tough luck. So I would bequeath to your kids and let them enjoy the richness of knowing you at a deeper, different level. My mum used to journal, right? And she had journals for each year. And I was asking my brother, I said, have you got mum's journals? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, because we want to know what was the, what did you write when I was born? You know, that sort of stuff. And anyway, he said, I've got all the journals. He said, but the year you were born is missing.

46:51 He said, well, mum didn't want you to know that you're adopted. Oh, as a true true. He was just crazy pranking you. No, no, no. He's pranking the chain. But he says, we just didn't want you to know. We just didn't want you to know you were adopted, right? But the thing was, the most amazing thing was, like, this is what you're saying, Dale, is really, really good point. Mum was up in Crewe during the Second World War, right? And she was seconded. She was a hairdresser and she was seconded at the age of 16 to go work for the Rolls-Royce factory, which was at Crewe, which they converted into an aircraft engine factory, right?

47:36 For the Second World War. And one night she was there and they said, Look, it's early. You can go home. There's nothing happened. Or you're not on that night, something like what you wrote about. And that was the night it got bombed. So you sort of read this journal about she was annoyed because she was going to miss out on a night's pay, right? And being with her girlfriends and stuff like that. So she had to go home. And her dad was, well, look, and she was all upset about it. But that particular night, that factory got, well, I think 39 women died. And you go, I mean, how weird is that, you know?

48:11 But, but that I think is a marvelous thing about keeping a journal that you tap into things like that, you know, which is fascinating to read about my mother's life. Yeah. And she had Alzheimer's. So I used to tell her stories from her journals and stuff like that, which she never remembered. But if I sung them to her, she got it. Wow. That's beautiful. That's really, really beautiful. I was going to say as well that one of the things is to think about some of them, maybe some of them you give when you are still here. And then the other idea I had, because this is just the way I think, it's like some of those cool diagrams, you could make them into wallpaper and wallpaper the loom, but it's like, put them out there.

48:53 You know what I mean? It's like some of your stuff's really in. I think people keep stuff in books a bit too much. Like, if there's something interesting there, how could you put it on display or do something so that you go, that's important to me right now or whatever. So I just thought about Lou wallpaper full of all of those diagrams and everything would be super cool. But other people's interpretations. interpretations of things can be can elevate and take it to the next level. So, I mean, there's so many interesting thoughts. And I think inside of businesses, not to suddenly get talked too seriously about it, but again, but inside of businesses, that process of looking at different experiences and different interpretation situations could be really useful

49:34 as a team grows and expands, or in basic terms, we were at this event last summer. How did it go? We're at this event this summer, and how did it go? Things get too formalized, like, oh, yeah, write a post-event report. And actually, it'll say, it went quite well, 100 people turned up, but it won't be a journal, like actually the emotion of the day and things like that. And I think what I'm taking a lot out of this from our in a business sense is how much of the realness of a journal can be a value in helping people shape their team or their own life or their family and certainly their future aspirations.

50:14 I've seen in what you've shared, Andrew, literally, because we've seen those pages that, and knowing you a little as I do now, that it occurs to me that part of your success at this point has come from those building blocks. To me, a lot of my knowledge is just in my memory banks. It isn't utilized like that into a journal. And I think having spoken to other people about success strategies and things that they do, this is journaling is not something that the majority of people do. But when you talk to people that do do it, it is one of their success, the cornerstones of their success. Hang up, Johnny, because one of the most famous journalists of all time is Marcus Aurelius.

50:59 Yes. Which he was called meditations, right? So he's got some people said he's like the originator of journaling and stuff, but that may just be good prose. But can you just explain who he is? Because people won't know. So Marcus Aurelius was a Roman emperor. Yeah. Right. So he used to journal. And this is in the days when, Dale, you think you'll get it tough trying to get a journal book, right? They had to go to Egypt to get papyrus made up for this sort of stuff. And he had to write it in Greek because Greek was the language of philosophy. So there was also a pressure to be profound. But again, when I've looked at my mum's journals, the profoundness comes in the incredible simplicity sometimes.

51:42 So the little things that she was talking about, how she lost her dad's teacup or something like that, which is, you know, and I know my grandfather and I know how much he loved his cup of tea. And so there's, again, there's a real warmth to those tiny observations. And so sometimes I felt when I'm journaling is to also notice little things like when I sing to my grapes, you know, I just know they've grown. Now, they're going to probably think I'm nuts, but I had a vineyard and grapes don't grow unless you sing to them, right? So I sing to my dogs. Yeah, there you go. Look at them. Look how big they are. They bark. See? If anyone wants, I've just shared a link to Marcus, the Marcus Aurelius Wikipedia page.

52:27 What's the answer? Basically, stoicism. Stoicism comes from Marcus Aurelius. Marcus Aurelius, slow it down because there's a tendency to consume stuff like that. Because, you know, I probably read one of his things a day and I'll stop and actually think about it. I might journal about what I'm because his stuff is very profound. He's dealing with issues that I'm thinking about. Yeah. There's a daily podcast. Go on, Morris. What's that, Mora? I think it's really important that this is an action of slowing down. It's about kind of resting on something. And it's emergent, Johnny. Like you were saying about business. It doesn't have to be output-driven, but something does emerge.

53:09 Something maybe more valuable than what you thought was going to emerge. And I think that's the value of it. Instead of just going in a straight line, we can go deeper and then emerge with something else that's just as valuable or more valuable. Not get hung up on what you're writing that day because actually juice will come out on day 10. Whether they, even if they don't connect together, you couldn't have written what you wrote on day 10 without writing what you wrote on day one to nine. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just add something? I've just spotted this scrappy bit of paper. And you can, you can scan read it if you like, Andrew, because I've actually made a video of it.

53:50 But something that I've found really, really powerful. This was a little letter to my heart. So dear heart. And so I scribbled on this bit of paper. But what I have found really, really powerful is actually reading it aloud and making it into a video and using it as a teaching point. And I tell you. you what, it's like my heart. When I, this one was the first one I ever did of that. And my heart was going, oh my God, people are going to hear all this like deeply personal stuff. And I thought, I think people need to hear it. But there's something about actually reading your own words out and listening back that actually helps you to process and find your voice.

54:34 And it's something I've been doing in the last couple of months. And it is so immensely powerful. I mean, I often read things to my mum and I go, oh no, I've just read it. And, you know, it really, really helps to get it out. And I, and I'm really, I'm going to be doing more of this, writing stuff that is deeply personal. I wrote something the other day, what I've never liked about me. And it was, I never liked anything about me. And it was all, you know, all the stuff. It was only a little tiny piece about stuff that had happened, but ended up with this massive journey to self-love. And, well, actually, they're quite like me now. And I'm going to record, I couldn't do it at the time because I just felt so full of emotion.

55:19 But for people who want to hear what they've written, read it out. You don't have to do what I do and put it on YouTube or Facebook. But you could record it on your phone and play it back like that. Of course. But because of the work that I do, I want people to get really connected to their bits of stuff. And if I can't show up, how could I expect someone else to write something that is so deep and that is, you know, is really lifting the rubbish out of their body. So putting a voice to it is massively healing. Yeah. So this, I'll tell you what, this is a masterclass in journaling, mate.

56:06 It's an absolute pleasure to have you all on. And we are heading towards the top of the hour, which is where we generally like to keep these things. I know Moira wants to say something. She's ready. She's got a comment. Come on, Maura. What were you thinking? I was watching you. You were looking at that and you're thinking, you're nodding. I know you had a comment. Come on, Moira. No pressure. Come on, Moira. Asking about earlier on, you asked about how people get started. Yeah. And one of the things that I do a lot is say to people, just get a pen and a paper. And it's called free writing. But essentially, you take a pen, you take your paper and you set your timer maybe for three minutes and you write and you keep writing.

56:46 And even if you get stuck, you go, I'm stuck. And the question that I asked on the journal challenge that I did on Facebook was, How are you feeling? Well, what's going on for you now? How are you feeling? What are you thinking? And every night, that's how people started for three minutes. And it's kind of like a clearing activity. But if you're stuck, that's what I advise. I always say to people, just get your pen and paper and answer a question. Like, why am I finding this so hard? Could be the question. Or, you know, why am I so angry right now? Or what am I feeling? But just get your pen and paper, set a timer for three minutes if everyone's got three minutes.

57:25 And most people go, oh my gosh, something else emerges. And then that frees you to do the other thing. So they wrote for longer afterwards. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but just try it, Johnny. And I get that. And having, when I was the stuff I was doing in Evernote, I had like categories. What did I learn today? What was something that was a challenge today? Basically, they were my like cues. And I think if you're creating a habit, if it's something you haven't done before, those levers, those springboards that you can utilize just to get you started each evening until it becomes a more natural habit, until you find the pen flowing. There's nothing wrong. Excuse me. There's nothing wrong with having, what did I do today?

58:06 What went well today? What wasn't, or what, what was a challenge? I don't want to say what went wrong today. You want to be a bit more positive than that. But what was the challenge that I enjoyed today? And then maybe, what is a question I couldn't answer today? Where actually you're just throwing that out there to your mind to come up with a solution whilst you're asleep or whilst you're because our subconscious mind can work on problems for us, even whilst we're doing other things. And I think that's an important element of journaling that we haven't perhaps touched on there is that by digging into a subject, our subconscious mind will work on it for us in the background. I had a guy I'm working with at the moment, Johnny, who said, oh, I'm not into this journaling stuff. I said, well, I'm not asking. I want you to journal, right? Oh, this doesn't work. I said, have you ever journaled? He said, no. I said, well, we can't have a discussion about journaling, can we?

58:50 And it's not unless you've tried it. Right? But then he just got hooked for that very reason. He started to put down some core questions that he wanted to journal about, like you were saying. And then suddenly that lifted the lid. And then he said, oh, shoot, I've missed it. out. I should have been doing this for so long. And that's, I hear that from so many people. I wish I'd started this a lot lot sooner for any number of reasons. Yeah, awesome. Yeah. Well, listen, guys, this has been amazing. And no, no, we don't want to go now, I know. Get a glass of red wine. Let's sit here. Let's have a chat. Johnny, Johnny, don't leave. Johnny's going to pull the pin on us. Put it in your journal, send it to me.

59:38 Listen, Moira, as I said, you've started this call where we talked about the habit challenge. And actually, journaling is a good habit, right? I'm encouraging journaling as a habit. And I could have prattled on for eight minutes about why people should journal, but it wouldn't have been anywhere near as much gold as has come out of this. And I really love the idea of doing a journaling challenge, Moira. So we're going to put that into the Team Super Dad group and get any or all of you back to comment on that. How do we contact Moira and Dale? We're about to wrap up like that. Yeah, don't we? Find Facebook.

1:00:18 Let's do this then. Okay, starting from clockwise, top of the screen. Moira, thank you so much for being on board. How can people work with you? Where can they find your stuff about your challenges, etc.? Well, if you Google me, you'll find me. But Moira Mackey, any version of my name will come up, moiramackie.com. And Teresa, she knows me. She's just made a comment. So yeah, you can work with me in a group. You can work individually. I'm just about to do a journal safari, a guided safari with journaling. So look at the website, check me out. Yeah, it's a safari. It's a journey into the unknown. You know what you kind of know? Journal Safari, Moira. So yeah, just Google me. You'll find me. I'm all over the place. LinkedIn. Are you on LinkedIn?

1:01:02 I'm on LinkedIn. Of course, I'm on LinkedIn. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. LinkedIn, Facebook. Not so keen on Twitter. And how do we find Dale? How do we find you, Dale? Dale Darley.com, Facebook. I'm on LinkedIn. Yeah. Just, well, I'll come and find you. I think you're more famous than me. Well, Dale, Dale, your website is crammed full of awesome resources and different writing programs. So from creative writing to that inner soul work to writing your own non-fiction coaching type book. You've got courses for all those things. So that's awesome. Thank you. And Mr. Priestley, great to have you on board.

1:01:47 Link in, that's it. He's all over LinkedIn. Yeah, and Andrew Priestley.com, but yeah, but LinkedIn, that's where most people get in touch with me. But yeah, where do they find you, Johnny? Well, they find me at teamsuperdad.com and we're on the habit challenge at the moment. So that's teamsuperdad.com forward slash habit challenge, the F5 program for dads who are busy dads who want to create their best life ever. The F5 is launching later in August. So we look forward to bringing on the latest cohorts to that program. And I am going to have to start journaling now. So I have three accountability coaches who are going to say to me, next time they see me, where's the journal, Mr. Jensen? And I have to be able to say, here it is. So this has been very powerful. Thank you. You too at home.

1:02:32 You too at home. Get a journal. Not just any journal. It's got to be able to scan it. You've got to be able to scan it. Burn them. Write them and burn them. Yeah, it's got to be scannable, burnable. Good. And shareable, Moira. That's one were clear to get across as well. Johnny, how cool are you, mate? You've just got the best. He's hanging out with you right on this journal thing. You just picked the talent, eh? I learned. Well, I said to you, Moira today, didn't I? It's, you know, the teacher needs to always be learning. Part of my motivation for Team Super Dad came from me asking myself the question: how am I going to fix this?

1:03:14 How am I going to achieve what I want in life? And I share this in my story all over the place. But I was up a mountain in Austria and there was a blizzard and we were crossing a crevasse and I was in my divorce and it was all crappy. And I was like, I've got to fix this. And then boom, Team Super Dad. I've got the piece of paper that I wrote up on that mountain. It's in front of me here. So that's the blueprint of Team Super Dad. Brilliant. So that's God, Johnny. Yeah, when we got to the mountain hut and we sort of broke the door in and this the lady was there. I said, I need a piece of paper. I need a piece of paper. That's the biggest piece of paper she had, which is kind of perfect because it just screams.

1:04:00 time and the place yeah yeah it screams austrian mountain hut yeah austrian mountain great well thank you guys i really appreciate your time and we'll see you see you next time thanks johnny team super dad out bye this has been team super dad find us at team superdad.com