How To Be A Strong Leader with Mari Williams

00:00 In this episode of the Team Superdad podcast, I talk to Mari Williams. Leadership coach, therapist, former teacher and mum of five. Roll theme! Welcome to Team Superdad Real dads creating their best lives ever More time More money More fun You are not alone You're on Team Superdad Hey, welcome to the Team Superdad podcast. Great to have you back here Jonnie Jensen your host and founder of the team super dad community we are a community of dads creating our best lives ever and in the team super dad programs we focus on focus fitness finance family and fun

00:44 Basically in the free community but also through our success systems and courses that we run. So, Mari Williams yes awesome lady I met her through the KPI, Key Person of Influence Community And she is a leadership coach but in just also such an awesome woman to hang out with, so easy to be with. She's a mum of five with a couple of divorces in there or certainly one which we talk about a little bit in our conversation today We talk about loads of things you know she works with leaders mainly men actually she works predominantly men leaders of big organisations and businesses

01:29 And she's just a lot of fun, absolutely a lot of fun. So I hope that comes across in our conversation if you are listening to this for the first time then thank you for being here how did you find us let me know and if you enjoy it if your multiple times listener then of course please subscribe to the Team Superdad podcast on whatever podcast channel you listen to and most of all Give us a review over at Apple Podcasts. I don't understand why other podcast tools don't really do reviews but they're so helpful, mainly because they get you ranked! So give me some love over on Apple Podcasts and of course share this with other dads that you know the Hero Academy is launching again in November

02:12 It's eight weeks but leading into a 12 months of accountability and mentoring. But if you're interested in transforming the areas of your life, focus your fitness, your finances, your family and the amount of fun you're having then come on over and find out more about The Hero Academy and how you can participate it's a great program for all dads who are looking to really ramp up their life and blimey we're heading into the end of 2020 Good. Be gone, ye beast! But let's have an awesome 2021 I'll see you on the other side. I hope you enjoy this chat with Mari Williams

02:56 Hello, welcome to the Team Superdad podcast. This interview today is with Mari Williams a fellow alumni from the Key Person of Influence community an absolute amazing group of people and I'm so fortunate to have been part of that and Daniel Priestley and Dent and if you want to check that out then please go and do so but Mari good to have you here today executive leadership coach and therapist Tell us more about what you do and where you're at today. Oh, thanks a lot for having me on Jonnie as I've been looking forward to it! So um...I work with tend to be senior level executives and CEO level who basically want life to be better You know they're sitting in life thinking this is not quite what i thought i would have even if they're very successful so other people might be looking at these people thinking wow you've got it all but inside they're thinking this

03:47 There's something missing, it's not quite where I want it to be and they're not really sure how to get there. So I work from a very kind of therapeutic background but with sort of strong elements of coaching and bringing in sort of mediation skills. It can be anything from working on their deep self-worth and self confidence to helping them be a better parent, to helping them be about a partner, to helping them actually manage their team better. And experience myself, but I really just want people to get to living the life that they want to lead. Yeah and that's exactly why you're on here because people who've listened to this podcast before will know that's exactly what Team Superdad and The Hero Academy is all about so

04:33 I love the way the universe draws, you know, the right kind of people towards us. And if people don't believe in all that sort of stuff then consider it does happen because it's a conversation isn't? When you start talking about things, you notice things on people's profiles, you noticed posts that they share and I'm like Oh yeah, that's exactly the kind of person I want to talk to. Talking about whether you can become and be part of the coaching group at The Hero Academy but also as a woman it is massively important to me that we put amazing women let alone powerful or intelligent or beautiful just at the real heart of it amazing women around the Team Superdive community because

05:14 That's my commitment in life as well. Yes, I'm single at the moment but that's not how I plan to stay so continuing that better understanding and knowledge of women And we'll come on to your post from recently later about menopause and pre-menopause. We just touched on miscarriages as we walked into this, and knowing myself as a business person that someone who's owned businesses run teams these things happen in life? Yeah! Then we just go into work it's like come on team let's actually inside you're in pieces yeah so absolutely awesome On this, you know one of the things for me about Team Superdad is just that moment where you realize things are okay or things are okay in this department but not quite in that department. But somewhere amongst all that is this wasn't what I planned. This like let alone when we're kids and want to be a racing driver or scientist or a spaceman or something like that... We still get too

06:13 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Mari Williams. So, I think we've got a lot of things that are common. But if you can back that up or tell me different... What's the impact of that as well in people? As you see and people who work with? To kind of go back to beginning of that, one of the problems is that we've transitioned as a society from people who grew up, got married had kids went to work doing same job for 20-30 years, 40 years, The

07:15 So actually, it's in books. It's in movies. It's almost like a cliche of this is how you, this is what life should look like. Yeah, yeah, absolutely and I think, you know, they say they call it the Disney effect that we kind of all want that happy ending And actually if we can understand sort of, you know where we're headed. Oh totally me! I have to say i'm totally a Disney girl You know it's like...I was watching something the other day and there was a really just sort of bit of not sad ending but kind of not happy ending and I kinda went why have I just watched that? Why did I watch this whole series? Where is the happy ending?! My daughter, you know The Avengers, not the end game one, the one before

07:56 We didn't watch the trailer, so we had no idea. And I always say to my kids, especially when they're a bit scared right? Don't worry there's a happy ending! So after three hours my daughter at the time must have been six clearly my ex-wife was not too happy about me taking her to see that but she goes to me well that wasn't a happy ending was it?! Is that the one where they all evaporate at the end? Like 50% of the people die, yeah. That's it! Lucky if there is a sequel... There is just got to hang on for it But I think that's the thing isn't it, we kind of do want to be happy and actually people kind of disregard the word happy but its only emotion we don't try to move away from If you think about every other emotion we're always going great I'm here but I want this And when you get into happy your like oh I am happy great

08:43 You know, you don't want to move anywhere from happy. It's very cynical but beautiful! Who is right? The cynical people out there that say you and your... I'm quoting someone here..."You and your bullshit Disney flipping happy ending!" Or the me's of this world are like no-no i'm gonna make some money, I'm going to fall in love, I'm going to have kids and we're gonna live happily ever after. I know there's no rights or wrongs in life but my view is that It's possible. It's attainable, it's something to strive for rather than accept second best. So I agree so I turn myself to be a positive realist. So I am very optimistic about life. I'm very positive. I believe in love and I don't believe in the one. I think there are many ones out there but I absolutely think that you can find somebody to live with long term that

09:34 I'm going to be talking about the I am attracting that personality whether I like it or not. And that's what I see in my clients, you know they come in and they say I'm bullied by every boss or I pick the wrong partner all the time. You know that was me, you know I've had three long-term decade relationships and if you look at them all the personalities are very similar. And you don't realise till the end do you? That one is so different! No no they're not, they've just got the same stuff hidden in different ways. Well I realised that about

10:24 And my only other long-term relationship, I was like oh my gosh. They're not the same? Then you realize okay yeah they are quite fun there's an element of wildness to them but then also insecurities so i don't mean that as a slight against them but i was kind of swooping in because i wanted to look after them and save them well guess what! The slightly wild independent woman does not want You reminded me of something I read recently and it was saying that in every movie there's, oh i can't remember what he calls her. Something like the crazy IT girl or something and he basically says she always has to be a bit quirky and sort of need fixing so that the hero can come in and he can fix her but of course the quirk of her is that she doesn't really want to be fixed! Yeah that's me...and then devastated that neither of us do! It's fine I've worked out now 46. I'm like brilliant well Mari I think you're frozen

11:17 Drumroll as we wait for Mari to unfreeze. They call this filling in the sea... That's how you're describing yourself, then that then that is the issue is that ultimately she doesn't want to be fixed and you don't need to be fixing her so I'm the same as you that one of the things I did was I picked people who needed fixing because I was an over-carer and I wasn't over carer because my mum had needed fixing So actually, you know what I was doing was effectively it sounds awful but choosing my mother in different partners as a way of trying to heal myself and my relationship with my mum and trying to heal them. But actually their personality did not suit me in any way they didn't support or look after me because of course they were my mother and my mother was emotionally distant so I picked men that were emotionally distant yet I'm the most you know emotionally intuitive caring person I know so I needed somebody emotionally intuitive and caring back

12:11 And I picked the opposite. You have to look at yourself and see what's going on in your life that you are drawing towards you, like you said about attracting the universe kind of bringing people together...I believe the universe gives you what you need but it's whether your need is a healthy or an unhealthy need so you have to look at yourself Exactly. And if there's dads listening to this saying, this wasn't what I tuned in for Jonnie like it actually is! There's an important message here which underneath the kind of, oh yeah, I want to get fitter or I want to get better at work and have a better relationship with my kids. There's so much of the internal piece that has to come on and it can be uncomfortable for some people and they don't have to dig into it in like years of therapy but just actually look back and go Oh yeah

12:55 She was quite like that. Or, Oh I do do that in all my meetings and it's a real opportunities to get a sense of what it's like for the other person or the person you're managing or the person your relationship with. And I think what you say is right so you know me, I'm very pro men And I love the energy that men give. Certainly, men around me in my business have been incredibly encouraging and men around me in my life are some of my best friends. You know, I think men have a lovely energy to them which I feel is quashed

13:35 And we were just talking about the whole sort of big boys don't cry, you know I'm not allowed to show emotions. Actually you know most of my client load is men and it's men who are effectively coming saying I think I'm this really sensitive intuitive understanding loving caring person but society or my parents have given me this idea that you know I'm not allowed to cry, I'm not allowed to show emotion, I'm not allowed to be vulnerable, I'm not allowed to be all these things and so I've kind of shut it down And And I use the word beautiful human beings, you know. Sensitive and warm and loving and I have men sit in my room and say oh do i want to cry? Do I want to cry? I'm so pathetic! And almost like I love you more when you cry because you're showing me that you're a real human being who has real feelings. You know and I respect people who are able to show their emotions much more than I respect the ones who kind of just sit there

14:49 I'm not going to cry, not going to cry. It's just like why not? This is just a messaging system. Well especially when things are going wrong you know when the pressure is on in work and then your relationship starts to struggle and then you get back at it because of stress and then you're snappy with your kids. Actually maybe what there is to do is be like I am really upset right now! Yeah yeah! Oh hang on a minute...I've got a reason as well. What can men And just to say again, to people listening. I don't plan lists of questions. I do have a structure around what we're going to talk about and get together before the podcast but I love that our conversations flow naturally so that's kind of intentional as well. What can men do

15:38 I'm going to start with a question from a viewer who interrogates the wrong word. What can they do to have a look at their own emotions, unpick some of their stress or upset? Or like why am i so tired? Why am I so snappy? Like what can they do to unpick some of that on their own self-assessment? Okay okay! So um...I'll teach you a tool if that's all right. Yeah please do. So I call it thought strings and I imagine a piece of rope with knots on it and what I think is okay..so let's say you realize Now if you go and talk to people about being angry or you just think about being angry, you're just dealing with the anger. But odds are because I think of anger as a symptom of something that's not what the actual problem is So let's say I feel angry And I say to myself okay so if I'm feeling angry why? Then I think okay it's related to that phone call I've just had Okay so what happened in the phone call someone called me unprofessional Okay so actually unprofessional is my second knockdown It wasn't anger Anger was response

16:35 But unprofessional is the not. So then why did they call me, you know? Why does it matter to me that they called me unprofessional? Well actually my value is that I'm professional because I want people to be treated equally and It's my job and it's my career so actually okay job career Pete sorry people being treated equally Is the third knockdown said you see how we're already with quite far away from anger The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Mari Williams

17:13 So, can you see how actually the real issue that I'm angry about is fear of ending up on the streets if this person's ability... You know sorry. I'm losing my words! This person thought of me being unprofessional as true maybe I'll lose my job and house and my kids and I will end up in the street now if I can respond from that, that fear and if I can answer that fear in myself That entire thought string disappears Okay, if I just you know walk around the house shouting at people feeling moody staying angry nothing is resolved. Okay? So you see this often with people who've got say a fear of presenting You know they come in and they want to learn tips and tools about how to speak better And I'm saying issue is that you're worried If you present badly you're going to lose your job which will put you on streets which means you failed

17:59 Okay, so actually we then work back from that. Okay? So how likely is it you lost your job if you lost a job what would happen where would you go if You had no money who would put you up and you remove that baseline fear because most of us wouldn't end up on the street Yeah, so when you've removed that baseline fear The brain then carries that message all the way back up to the top and the top feeling evaporates yeah I see people could use that in in their reverse ways or not there are another reverse process but if they're thinking I want to start a business, or I want to change my job. Or if I want to do something bold quite often there's a hesitance around doing something bold you could go through that same process of what am i scared of losing? Why won't I take this risk? What was the worst thing that could happen? So what you're doing is your brain is always looking for threat

18:47 Your brain is always looking for threat because it's all about survival. But it sees emotional threat and physical threats as the same thing. So if I'm rude to you or hit you, your brain just registers it the same way Okay, so actually the problem is that our brain just has not evolved from kind of caveman you know, saber-teeth cat standing outside your cave. It hasn't evolved So then it's looking at starting my business and the brain goes oh my god Well if I start my business and it goes down this chain to a worst case scenario...so actually if you can locate your worst case scenario however ridiculous that might be

19:23 And soothe the worst case scenario problem plan around it. And that's why I say, I'm a positive realist because let's look at the realism of situations businesses fail. Yeah relationships fail and you can say if it fails I will still be okay Because that is the thing people don't have if they don't have great self-worth. I will still be okay If this marriage fails or business fails then what you'll find is that fear line will just evaporate because it comes from the root cause So you talked earlier about people needing to be in therapy or something for years. One of the reasons I love the cognitive hypnotherapy that I trained in as well as the coaching was, I'd done the years – I had done CBT, I had done counselling and three years of psychotherapy and still I had actually really bad anger, low self-worth. I understood my life where it came from brilliantly but hadn't shifted it so what I liked about what I did is that it went straight through cause we're not going to spend years talking about this whole thought stream

20:17 We're just going to go in and we're going to work on that. That's so important for men, but it is so important that if you're thinking of what I don't want to see a counselor or there isn't there's a case for doing that, but actually in a practical performance related way whether it's work, whether it's home, whether it's fitness, And I'm going to be talking about the podcast, The Jonnie Jensen Show.

20:54 And we've got a lot of great people here. But I was a very young mum, so my oldest three are now 30 27 and 25. And then 16 and 14 year old at home. What mix? So they're girl boy boy girl boy

21:31 You really can answer that. Are girls harder than boys? Which they are! I think each come with their issues actually, but for me what I worked out was doing a kind of thought-streaming exercise when my kids were leaving things on the floor and things like that it wasn't as if they were leaving stuff on the floor is that I felt really disrespected and disrespect you know such hugely strong emotion And it helps you to understand what's the root cause going on for me. And how am I being responded to? Because often our stuff in our parenting, it's our stuff. It's how we were brought up and I can remember because I used to run parenting classes for three years... I mean still work in schools with parents right and you know We used to do this exercise on letting go of our labels and I remember this parent crying her eyes out because she'd been labeled clever by her parents and she said she just felt awful to be the kind of clever one in the family She could never not be clever

22:31 So you look at these labels that we give our kids and the problem is that we kind of grow up and onwards, and become parents ourselves. And then we take that... Do you know what I mean? She would never call her child clever! She'd say oh that's really clever because she didn't want to label her kid so we're just replicating our stuff. Yeah flipping on his head giving them the same problems. The issue is actually the way that your parent is probably the way that your team lead Okay, so actually if you look at your team you are the parent of your team. Yeah So then you carry your stuff into your team leading and into your job And and if you didn't feel great as a kid You're not going to probably feel great leading, you know A company or running your own business If you've got lack of confidence is a partner then you're gonna struggle to have lack of confidence it's like... The analogy I use is if you imagine that your life is a puddle and you are the puddle

23:20 If we drop in a stone in the center, it will ripple into every single area right to the outside whether you like or not. And so all of those things that you talked about earlier that can I exercise more? Can I be really hench? Can I have better friends where are the activities I want to do etc.? Whether you deem them to be an outer ripple and inner ripple they're going to be touched if you're not confident in yourself So for me, my view of it was find a therapy that goes in and drops in healthy stones. Take out that lack of self-worth put in the lack of self... Put in a self worth or self confidence or whatever is you need and it will ripple out because the reason that you don't go to the gym is because you do not value yourself enough to look after yourself to do that self care

24:08 The And really loving yourself from the inside. So it sounds really kind of woo-woo and a bit, oh God you know... No but it's self sabotaging! We're just part of the Change Your Game mastermind and we've just read The Big Leap And that whole idea of self-sabotaging, there's a glass ceiling place on ourselves. And then when we start to butt up against it, we sabotage so that... So rowing with your wife having a fat gut sniffing Coke at the weekend when you know like these are all might sound dramatic to do but I know this is a lot of things that some dads doing and its like

25:00 It feels like the trappings of success, but actually it's evidence of self-sabotaging. 100%. Yeah and I think you know what? You know sort of running my own podcast and one of the people I interviewed he said that they had the trappings of success they had you know The Gardener in The Pool Boy and They Had a Big House and He said he was just driving home with his wife one day and just thought why are we not picking up our own kids And he said, suddenly they just kind of went, whoa. And they literally sold up and moved and downsized. I grew up that way right? And looking to the touchline see if my dad was there looking at the touch line

25:39 With my story, my journey and all the stuff that happened. It gave me my plans of how I wanted to parent but as often as possible when my kid looks up that I'm there and particularly in the way the world works today it's more and more possible let alone flipping now when we're on Zoom calling everything. Parents shouldn't feel guilty Either about not going to work or about not missing their kids stuff. Because I think that's about, that is about values and recognising where the upset comes from which what we're talking about here why am i upset about this? What's my feelings? But I think can if I can just interrupt it's also really important to understand that actually kids need you to fail

26:25 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Mari Williams. And it literally holds them back. As much as I see people not having children because they don't want to be the parent, you know the bad parent... They also don't want to aim for this perfect parent cause they're already believing that going to fail and and i would say to parents The biggest gift that you can show your kids is how to fail and how to fail well and how to say sorry Because actually they need to see that, you know. I remember with my kids that they used to go to their dad every other weekend and then just for some reason we'd kind of got muddled up in what we were doing and i was due to pick them up And at like four o'clock in the afternoon I get a call from school going are you gonna come pick the kids up? Because I had a really difficult mum The guilt I felt... My poor kids have been sitting there half an hour You know no one going to pick them up It was out of proportion

27:21 But they need to know that actually, you know sometimes my parents are going to be late but they're still gonna come and I'm gonna be safe. They need to recognize that failure is okay. They really need to recognize also the adult responsibility means sometimes you can't be the one on the sidelines And you can't go to every play and you can't do that. They need to understand that they can feel sadness, and they can feel grief, and they can feel cross with their parent... They can have this whole range of emotions yet the relationship can still be really positive And we give our children the power to communicate that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Our previous generations, like we would speak for yourself but I would get told off but not get told what I'd been told off about! I'll be told wrong but not explained why you know and so then you're just left with the experience of really in trouble when I'm not really sure I know why. It brings me to how we used to say you're a naughty kid? You're a naughty boy?! Do you know that sort

28:20 And The and It's like someone saying to you, do a good job for the next year. I'll give you pay rise. What does that look like? Totally! Well that's powerful in our relationships, in our management of people and I first heard and learned this in some landmark courses but just that sense

29:30 You're not a bad person, you're not rude. You're not lazy. You're not a crap employee and shit apprentice. You're not like the worst driver here. Like what you did today was a real clanger. Yeah I love you but when you said that to me this morning when I left for work, I felt like he didn't love me all day and that's why I ended up shouting at you tonight! This is game changing in our experience of life because suddenly Everyone's not against us. Yes, yes and it is that ability to work with somebody and I think that's the key and you said there, I love you but... That is a beautiful way to communicate your child. You know? I love you but when you do that, when you present that behavior, I struggle because I feel and its about owning your feelings.

30:16 So when you leave your clothes all over the room, I feel upset because I've taken my time and energy to make them nice for you. You're owning your feeling because they might not care less that they left their clothes all over the floor! So if you own your feeling. But the I love you, Beth is so important because what it's saying is that I love and value as a person whatever your behavior. Am I not like you right now? Am I not liking that behavior you're showing right now? And I think as you said its important we recognize that were going to feel that in our partnerships too. We're not gonna love the person we are with or like them all of time. Were not gonna like their behavior. We may love them very deeply But it's important to be able to say, you know when you do this I feel this. Not, you know, I don't love you or whatever and we just miss this nuance of communication so much and it causes so much damage. Yeah and slightly jumping off to another subject slightly how in your professional work and in your personal life you've got ex-partners

31:17 And Yeah, so I actually kind of the next book I want to write is called How To Separate Well. Because I just think it is imperative to... Do you notice how much I struggled even say that then? It's so difficult when actually you want to be like no! It's possible to get on. It's okay to be upset and angry at each other and still work out It's like people call it, I'm totally committed to mediation being more about proactive mediation rather than so what do you two want to say to each other?

31:59 Well, seeing as you are here today to fix some stuff. So how do you split up your, now that you've got a part the kids going back and forth between you? How or what can you say to people and be able share as much personal view with them but what can you say about successfully managing that? And I think for people who aren't separated they could still hear a lot in this because it's about how do manage conflict in your relationship So I think what is really key to remember as you separate that this is about the two of you. This is not about your kids and likely, you both love your children very much and want the best for them And you just have to kind of almost root that flag in before you even start the whole process and both of you have to do that

32:42 And it breaks my heart when I see women keeping their fathers from their children or disregarding their input in their lives. It literally breaks my heart and unfortunately, there are more women that I think that I see that happening with because it tends to be women and Do men get punched? Yes, they do. It's a different subject though but I would say it's important. Absolutely they do absolutely they do but you know certainly from my experience and from what i see around me women tend to end up with the kind of main share and I love that this is changing actually I love that this is changing um But if you can kind of root that flag in of just always almost being able to go back your flag when it gets hard going okay kids are priority kids are priority I think the other interesting thing to really remember is you are about to both behave

33:44 And, you know, arguments about money. Arguments about housing. Arguments about the children that you love whilst your feeling heartbroken that you've either fallen out of love with somebody because it's still heartbreaking if you're the one who has fallen out of love with them or they've left you and you didn't realize so you are going through kind of almost like three or four traumas at once. You know kids houses If you think about the fact that our housing is, it's our kind of core thing we need is love shelter and food. So you're arguing about something which has a baseline survival instinct then your arguing about your children who you love and adore then you're mourning the loss of relationship AND you are mourning the loss of your plan right back to what were saying in the beginning, your future plan except that there's a hell of lot trauma going on for you right now and it will bring out the worst in both of you

34:34 So I think that's key and if you can understand that, what it does is it lets you Be much more able to let go of those shirty emails and the shirty texts and the things that are shouted on the doorstep. I recognize that we are both under so much pressure right now, we are reacting from our worst selves. And I think that's a thing I often see destroy people is they say that person has become this it's like no they are responding from this right now So I always say to people when you're breaking up almost expect a two-year gap between You breaking up and you getting on with this person So Mike is, you know...

35:13 Having the first couple of sane conversations with each other and it's five years. Yeah, there you go! It is its years and actually you may never get there and it might be about your setting boundaries You know that that's also this sad thing but for me it was about recognizing that my children's father was... And I've been very lucky both fathers have been brilliant fathers The reason I live in Cambridge, the reason I never moved away because I never wanted to move my children away from seeing their fathers And I think, you know for us it was also really regular contact. So with both fathers we had a routine It was every other weekend plus every other Tuesday and every other Thursday which sounds really complicated But the idea was they never went more than four or five days without seeing their dad Yeah You know that both father's lived quite close to me

36:01 So we have regular contact. The first relationship, it was better. We used to go to parents' evenings together. Actually my first husband was the first person who saw my fourth child born obviously by a completely different father he was the first one to see her and hold her and love her and actually offered if anything happened to me if we were both killed I will take the extra two children to keep the family together The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Mari Williams. Then make sure you can offer it to your ex because there shouldn't be much of a reason why you can't offer that much compassion. But I think it is also about accepting where you are, if one of your partners has gone off and got another partner, that's painful! And trying to force yourself into a relationship with them that's amicable and friendly when you're going through grief and pain – that's never gonna work

37:05 So it's about balancing how do I retain, you know, how am I civil with this person and how do I allow my child to see that we can be civil together? Because odds are your children are going to grow up and have broken relationships. So what's the model you want to show in resolving that? And anybody who listens is in this situation, it could be grief from a death. It could be grief from a relationship break-up The grief process, confusion, joy, upset. I'm not sure what they are. I can pull it up and share it but anyone who's listened to search up the stages of grief because you think you're going mad because you can't work out one day I was really sad next day I was really happy then I was really angry and actually no that is real! That is exactly the order it goes in It's just coming out so my key to people is you know be fair

37:55 Stay on the moral high ground. I worked with a client whose ex had been really abusive to him, very very abusive and that was where he left in the end and then continued to be obnoxious through the entire separation. And I used to say to him have this image of you standing on a hill and the wind is blowing through your hair and that is your moral high ground! Every time you feel yourself dropping down come back up to this more high ground just take a breath and go okay moral high ground How do I want to behave? So this is not about their behavior. It's not about retaliation, it's not about revenge, it's not about tit for tat... how do I want to behave what I think is right what I think is fair because whatever happens whether you end up losing huge amounts of money so I've lost I was actually the one who'd inherited money so I've lost about £150,000 over three different long-term relationships and actually part me is like

38:49 That's smart. You know, the other part of me is... You're the Robin Williams! It's fine. Okay. But the other part of me is you know okay there's a fairness here that we live together and this where I'm going to be and I am always whatever their behavior I'm gonna try hard to react my moral high ground now I've sent the shirty texts in the shirt emails you do because you're gonna be emotional but it's just let it go focus back on your kids what is best for the kids? You have to step over your own feelings I would just like to say, I did mediation with both exes. One was more difficult than the other. The first one was much easier but my first husband he and I we were friends to the point where I would go around and have a barbecue with him you know? He nearly died at one point and i was in floods of tears it's drifted now because my children are 25 27 30. I don't see him very much

39:41 But you know, the second ex is still around. You know we chat on the doorstep. We had a joke the other day I sent him a text and I said what is it with our teenagers? And in fact they won't wash! YOU wash! I wash! Why don't THEY wash?! You know...we just have these little silly interactions so we're not friends but but we can be friendly. It's possible. I think people need to remember that. What IS possible? What would really work here? And then just keep coming back to what's possible? Exactly And just, I know you've got some stuff that you've got to jump off for. But the... Just finally! There's so much we could talk about and but in particularly as part of the Hero Academy and My F5 process focus is in there because fitness finance family and fun focus is right at the middle of all that

40:29 We can't go to the gym regularly if we haven't got a powerful reason enough to. We can't learn how to be financially free if we're not committed to learning about the different options, so focus is very important. When a man or dad is in a sense of sort-of overwhelm that could be stressed through success it could be stressed through things going wrong How do they quieten things down so they can refocus? Because I know from my experience when it was, the business was growing but it wasn't really having enough control over. I had trouble at home and things started to... as the walls closed in everything went wrong now if I could have focused a bit better and got the right sort of support and help

41:14 Again, it's part of my inspiration for everything that I'm up to. But just like I asked earlier what can a dad do to unpick some of those emotions? When everything feels like it's closing in how can a dad center himself and focus on what's important? What can you say about that? So I think there are couple things here so I totally believe whether your leading in your life as parent or CEO whatever it is that you're doing in your life you are leading in some way I totally believe that it will come to the core and you know, obviously that informs all of the work that I do. So I think actually it sounds really silly but sitting and closing your eyes and actually centering yourself somewhere in you there is a you that kind of in some sense hasn't gone through all the junk that you've gone through It's like a kind of pure you And that you knows what you want and it knows what your visions are and it knows What you're capable of achieving if you can almost sit with your eyes closed and I tell people sit with your eyes closed

42:09 Find that space in your body, put your hand on it and connect with it. And just tune into that version of you that does know what is right for you. So that's the first thing I would say just literally spend a few minutes. It sounds a bit woo-woo but do it! It works. Do you know what? It's important you've said both those things here. It is a bit woo-woo for some guys meditation seems like yeah hell are you talking about? I've actually got an expert hangout tonight with two meditation people but I take people back to the point when we were kids, where my boy says, I want to play for Tottenham. I want to do this and that he is loving the idea of picturing his future. It's just a game. So if that does feel a bit woo-woo for some people actually hang on a minute go for a walk sit down get excited about what you do want life to look like and then come back and start to be like really commit

42:59 And I have to say, so I'm not big into meditation at all. Um, I think it's something is a natural state we should just be able to tune in and out of in our lives too. And I think we will have actually there'll be those times when you've either just lost yourself in the book or you've stared at the clouds or whatever it is, you know even just been focused on football and you're just zoned out everything else You know, that to me is a meditative state. So that's kind of where I come from on it But knowing this core of you being able to tune back in so I teach top-level CEOs who are in the middle of multi million board level negotiations literally standing in front of a whole group of people they're trying to persuade just pause and look out the window recenter yourself To this place and come back And they'll just think you know you're taking your kind of pause and you look away when you come back

43:43 The fear is they're all going to think I'm flipping weird looking out the window. Actually, no! They think oh what a calm and collected dude. Yeah, in bed security confident inside you're like oh my god oh my god but outside you just go okay and re-center. And I used to have an ex who played a lot of squash and i could watch him getting more and more stressed as he played because he played quite high level and I would sometimes just look at him and just go re-center yourself You know, and sent himself back into his game. So that is the first thing. The kind of second again it's a tool... Imagine you're in the center of a tornado and everything in your life is just swirling around you And again its visualized push the tornado out so that you're standing in the center because what's in the center of a tornado? Peace! The calm! Yeah peace and the calm and the quiet

44:33 So, everything in your life – positive realist. We can't get rid of everything in your life! Let it swirl around you but just push it out and then just imagine saying okay so now I'm in this calm place all the stuff's still there I can't make it go away...I'm just gonna reach in my hand and I'm gonna pull out one thing and your body will kind of-your brain would just pull out let's say pulls out what am I going to do about my kids or what am I gonna do about that team member? Or whatever it pulls out… Last week mine was My car is blown up. I don't really want to spend this much money, what am I going to do about it? Exactly! So whatever it is and the beauty of this exercise again, It feels a bit woo-woo but its not What you're saying to your brain actually is what's the biggest priority right now And then you just look at that thing and solution find This is what I'm gonna do about that thing People often realise as well Our brain is constantly filtering out millions of signals

45:27 So, our brain is already... when we're walking along we can hear birds, cars the sky airplanes. Our brain is saying there's a million things you could hear right now I'm going to give you 10 and so actually when we start to take a little bit more control of that and say to the brain oh could I focus on And We are filtering continuously and so that's kind of my key message here is you've got filters whether you like them or not. You've got baggage, whether you like it or not. You've got behaviors beliefs systems etc going on whether you like it or not So said my thought is if I want to be somebody who's powerful and in control of my life

46:21 The And if you do that and you get support, and yeah I'm totally anti sitting in therapy for years. I don't like it! You know? I want to get in or I wanna get on...I can be quite a terrible stereotype but quite male in my thinking and I'm like come on let's move

47:05 And I don't want to talk about this, I want to deal with it. Exactly! And so what i say to people that kind of you know the final thing is if you think of your emotions and your rational thoughts like telegrams they are sending you a message now if you decide to discount an entire one side of that messaging system you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage If you bring in that emotional messaging system, but you bring it in a way where it's healthy and it's controlled and it feels good. You know, you are ultra powerful because you can do the rational and the emotional in these stressful situations which means you don't get into such stressful situations because you make better decisions because you're more productive, you're more efficient, your exercising well... Life starts to come together! It's that stuff of drop the right stone in the middle of the puddle and everything starts to change.

48:07 That would be my key message, whether it's about your parenting or it's about your work. Whether it's about how you feel personally go and work out what are the wrong stones that have been dropped in? And what are the ones that you need to drop in instead? You know, that would be my big key! You've got filters... Your brain is working to protect you but it will protect you by going great you feel better when you drink or you feel better when you smoke, you feel better when you shout, you feel better when you hit The And

49:08 I think that more than anything in the world today is so powerful, where men can show up most. I 100% agree and one of the sad things that I feel is a lot of men have almost felt embarrassed about being men or masculine. You know it's really really sad and I think in some respects women have lost their ability to feel feminine And I certainly know, you know with me there's a real push and pull between these two different parts of me. One where I am the kind of... You know? I want to be looked after! I want to be nurtured and I want to be cared for. We all do really. Yeah. I also want to be accepted when i'm in my powerful state call it masculine feminine call it whatever you wanna call it yeah you know I am a very powerful businesswoman and very powerful in my opinions and my presence but I still have times when I want to be looked after and nurtured and cared for

49:55 And I think men have that too. And it's about us owning both of those spaces, I can be powerful and masculine but I can be deeply sensitive emotional and empathetic at the same time. Yeah. If you look around really key male figures, if you look at Will Smith he is very masculine as a man yet actually if you listen to his stuff there's deep emotional sensitivity in there. He's great example yeah So I think, you know blend both together and own the man that you want to be in the same way that I would say to women own the woman that you want to be. You don't have to fit a stereotype it doesn't have to be your this or your that but everything that you wanna be. Not an embattled thing but pride enjoy and celebrated. Enjoy who you are! Awesome

50:43 There's so much stuff we could talk about. Do you know what? We'll definitely, we'll get you back on because the post that you put on Facebook recently and I'm pretty sure it was a public posting. It was yeah. Yeah it's about pre-menopause and menopause and that's when we touched on miscarriages as well. And there is so much about our relationships with our partners let alone our sisters and our mums and eventually our daughters as men that why I love having awesome women on the show and around Team Superdad is that we can have a greater understanding, and that in its sense it gives us a greater deeper connection with the women in our lives. And it's so important so we'll definitely get you back on and talk more about that. And The Hero Academy! I can see you being a strong participant and voicing that as well

51:37 What about people who have felt moved to want to work with you or your book, you mentioned that it's coming out. Where can people come and connect with you? So my website is probably the main source of everything and my podcast which is also launching in August so the website is www.mari-williams.com M-A-R-I, right? It is M-A-R-I. Yeah and I remember the hyphen and so it's mari-williams.com And i've got the Alternative Leader Podcast which will be launching end of August and The Alternative Leader Book which is all about how do we lead in as a person, as a parent, as a partner but in business you know how do we lead well from the inside So it's kind of a therapeutic self help business coaching...it's a mix of everything in there

52:28 And that's going to be coming out near the end of the year too. So there is lots sort of happening, so come and find me I'm on most social media platforms as well and all the links will be on the website too. Yeah, I am gonna put it in the show notes as well, so anyone who is listening to this and wants to click something just go to this podcast homepage. You can find me on LinkedIn and stuff as well. So yeah, and I'm always happy to have you know love feedback and I'm always happy to answer little questions and things like that. So definitely feel able get in touch with Love it so much. So just a wonderful conversation, the idea behind proactive mediation as well is something that's so important for people. Connections in our relationships, deeper levels of communication and understanding with our children. This isn't just... we've said a couple times its woo-woo this and woo-woo that but actually

53:21 I'm And actually, if you look especially through this pandemic what have been the key issues? Leaders being able to communicate. Families being shoved together for long periods of time. You've got to be able to communicate. You've got to be emotionally sensitive and emotionally mature. I think this is the key thing when you know who you are on the inside when you own yourself Then you'll do all of these things. And so that's kind of my final message to your men out there, is own yourself! Own who you are stop trying to be anyone else just own who you are and start building that version of yourself to be stronger and even greater more powerful people. And then you two could have a Disney happy ending! Come on! The Circle Of Life!

54:24 Mari, thanks so much. Thanks for having me! I'll see you on the other side of the atrium. Brilliant conversation there. Thanks so much to Mari. Like...I love having women on the podcast. I probably don't hang around with enough women to be fair. So the opportunity to chat for an hour, to realise actually just how similar we all are is... When you're young it's really easy isn't it? You know, you're just hanging out Jonnie Jensen, Mari Williams

55:05 Can't exactly chat up or flirt with as many people but our circle of female friends perhaps tightens as well. So it is just great to hang out with core women, if you've heard other women on any other podcast that you think would be great to have on Team Superdad then please let me know! Come over to the Team Superdad group on Facebook or the Team Superdad page on Facebook Blimey, you can message me at Jonnie Jensen. You can messaged at TeamSuperDad HQ on Instagram or Twitter Really just come over let me know who you want to have on the podcast and more than that get yourself into the team super dad group on In fact the easiest way to do that is go over to the team Super Dad web page teamsuperdad.com and click on these starts here section And that will link you up to

55:57 The Team Superdad Facebook group, this podcast which you've already got and all the other ongoing fun and resources and events that we're having as part of Team Superdad. Oh! The Dad Call as well Monday night every other Monday night is the dad call which is a free men's group for you to come in participate in it's not streamed It's not recorded. It's just a safe space for dads so get involved I look forward to seeing you there and working together in the future Spread the love dads onwards and upwards team super dad out bye This has been Team Superdad. Find us at teamsuperdad.com