69: Infektion

00:01 We have only 35 chambers. There is no 36. I know that. But I want to create a new chamber. Oh, and what would that be? Mo Facts with Adam Curry for October 27th, 2021. This is episode number 69. I'm Adam Curry coming to you from the heart of Texas Hill Country, and it's time once again to get ready to spin the wheel of topics with here from Northern Virginia. Please, everybody, say hello to my friend on the other end, Mr. Mo Facts. How are you doing, Adam? I am good, Mo. Good to hear from you. I'm a dog owner. I saw. And thank you for posting that picture of Rocco.

00:45 Holy crap. What a beautiful dog. I appreciate that. Rocco is a superstar. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Everywhere he goes, like everybody. Yeah, everybody. It's what we, when we were, when we were young, we used to call that a chick magnet. Yes. Well, I mean, like, he's a, he's a, he's a people magnet. Um, everywhere we go, it's like people ask, how's Rocco doing? Like, I'm doing fine. Thanks about asking about my dog. Welcome to the club. Yeah, exactly. That's right. That's where the first thing your wife does when she comes home is says hi to the dog. You're second now. It's very, very interesting how that works.

01:26 All right. Should we give it a whirl? Please. All right, everybody. Time to spin it up. Here is that wheel of topics where it stops. Nobody knows. The only person who actually knows is Mo because he put another banger together for us. The topic of episode number 69 of Mo Facts with Adam Curry is Operation Infection. Oh, are we going to the third rail, Mr. Mo? We are not going to talk about COVID. Okay. It's not a COVID show. Okay. Attention. This is not a COVID show. I'm making that very clear. This is not a COVID show. We got it. What this is, is we've danced around the 800-pound gorilla in the room.

02:08 We've talked about Tuskegee, not in detail, but we've talked about it. We've talked about even Henrietta Lacks. We went there on the potluck with the 800-pound gorilla in the room of why I think so-called black people, the community, quote-unquote, the community in big quotes, is AIDS. Why the community is hesitant, you mean? Yes. Wow. This is something white America has not heard. AIDS, the way AIDS was handled, the way people perceive AIDS to be.

02:48 And it's amazing I haven't heard anybody talk about this. Well, except for no agenda. What I mean on that. Of course. Because I have definitely made the comparison because it's the same damn people. And it's not really just the with the people involved, we're going to definitely look at that, but just the psychological baggage that came along with AIDS and it still exists with so-called black people or quote-unquote black people. Yes. It's kind of like it's

03:26 for everybody else, it's gone away. But it still lingers with us because the amount of propaganda that went behind it, the amount of fear that came with it. But I haven't heard any, you know, we've talked about it once again is Henrietta Lacks. You know, the first reflexive one we always talked about, and you asked me about it, was Tuskegee. Why does everybody bring up Tuskegee? Yeah. That's just a reflex. Yeah, which is which is exactly what you said. And I totally accepted that. But then what I remember distinctly is you saying, certainly for black men, the only thing the doctor gives me is the knife or the pill. Correct. I'm just saying, and when the talking point standpoint of it, of

04:12 when somebody backs you to the corner, so why don't you want to take it? A nice reflex part, get them up off you with Tuskegee. It just rolls out the tongue and it kind of works. And of course, we understand, as you illustrated, and I relayed to you was, of course, I mean, that's the only thing they do have to offer is a pill or a knife. So who wants bad news? I was shocked to find out that you didn't go to the doctor. No, no, no. No, I've the last time I, well, no, that's not true. I had some weird thing, which turned out to be, believe it or not, jockage. I'll just say it. I've never had it in my life. I'm not a jock. That actually, you know, it was like a shit. What's going on? Went to the emergency clinic.

04:55 That was the first time in at least, I'm going to say third. 35 years that I've been to an actual doctor. I go once a month. I go to the functional medicine voodoo guy and we do, you know, we look at, it has a different way of looking at it, more of a medicine man. And it works for me and I feel great. So, and a little bit of acupuncture. And I'm not saying people don't go to the doctor, but of course, we go to, like I said, of course, you have to. My wife makes the appointment to get the yearly and that kind of thing. But if you feel a little pain in your arm, or you know what I'm saying, like it joints a little loose, it's like, I'll work it out. You know, that kind of thing. Right. If you're seriously going on, please, please go. That's not what we're saying here.

05:39 But I want to address this because hopefully at the end of the show, I can illustrate the anxiety from that standpoint, which I haven't heard anybody talk about. And when I said that, I haven't heard anybody say AIDS. AIDS is the way the AIDS was handled, the way the AIDS was rolled out. No, no, I think you may be factually correct. We'll leave it at that. Yes. All right. So I guess what we need to do is get into the bag, and we're going to start with a look back 40 years on AIDS.

06:15 At first, the deadly intruder did not have a name. The lifestyle of some male homosexuals has triggered an epidemic of a rare form of cancer, but it quickly developed a reputation. And the deaths kept coming and coming. The fear was palpable. I was terrified of passing on HIV to someone else. But in the years that followed, it was pretty miraculous for me. So was the bravery. Because of them, I can live a healthy and happy life. We sat down with four gay men from four different generations, all living with HIV. The oldest is Jesse Miler, who's still haunted by the beginning of the epidemic.

06:55 People who, because they had been diagnosed, suddenly disappeared. And we all knew what that silence meant. Jesse was diagnosed in the 80s after losing his partner, George, and so many others. It was hard. It was a barrier. At the time, many leaders were accused of ignoring the crisis because it was deemed a gay disease. President Reagan didn't give his first major speech on AIDS until 1987, six years after the first diagnosed case. We must have a definition of AIDS. For Dr. Anthony Fauci, the epidemic was a turning point.

07:39 In 1984, he became the nation's top infectious disease expert. The same job he holds today. It might be, you know, I did a lot of research on AIDS. A lot. A lot of friends of mine died, which is why I was very interested in the research. Well, let me ask you this just so it might be the way I view things. Since you had a lot of friends at Dr. AIDS, is it as scary now as it was then when it first came about? Oh, public eye. No. I mean, Eddie Murphy summed it up perfectly. That's how we thought. You put your dick in, it explodes.

08:21 Yeah, I'm saying that. So this year then. Oh, no, no, no, no, of course not. Well, and so let me just say a couple of things about AIDS because there's a distinction between AIDS, which is autoimmune deficiency syndrome, which means that your immune system is in a weakened state and it can turn into a syndrome. That's not the disease. You don't catch AIDS. What was posited was that the human, the HIV, this virus got in and that's what was transmitted and that gave you AIDS.

09:02 What I personally believe, just to set it straight up front, is that, yes, HIV, they finally proved something that said, okay, this is HIV. It took them a while to be able to prove that. Very interesting. It's kind of the same way with coronavirus. But in my mind, it was the treatment, namely a rejected cancer drug, AZT. That's what was killing people. People who went to different places, and there's many YouTube documents or documentaries on YouTube you can see, particularly the clinic in, I think it was Mexico. They had different treatment and nobody died. And so to me, it was that the treatment was worse than the cure.

09:46 Well, I'll say this, and maybe this is cultural, but I think in certain southern cities like Atlanta, I think some places in Middle East. Mississippi, Alabama, one out of every two gay men will catch HIV. That was the marketing at the time. No, now that's right now. That's the facts now. Yes. Yes, but I don't see how that message is getting through because now they've come up with this product, which is PrEP P-R-E-P. Right. And this is some magical pill that you take, and then you just, even if you have HIV, you're not going to die.

10:26 As it's sold. But like I said, this is where the psychological aspect comes in. That, I mean, me coming of, I'm an 80s baby. I was born in 1980. So you got to think you get sexually active in your teenage years. This is at like the height of the AIDS scare. Oh, no. You guys got a rough deal, man. I mean, we'd already had some notches on our belt by the time this thing rolled around. Right. Whoa. And it's generational, right? Because my dad was the only thing we had to worry about, you go get a shot for. That was the kind of laissez-faire attitude about it. But now, every time you get ready to have a sexual interaction, it could be life or death.

11:10 Well, that's what they say. I mean, again, I have my different opinion, but that's the marketing. Yeah. I'm saying the psychological. Oh, yeah, no, the psychological baggage. I mean, I remember, I think, Fauci even saying, well, we're not sure. You might be able to get it just from touching someone or maybe from a doorknob. I mean, I heard it all from out of his mouth. Well, my grandma was like, boy, take the eight pen out of your mouth or you get AIDS at the mouth. That was the kind of, yeah, that was the kind of psychological. And what I'm saying is that baggage. Yeah. Yeah. The way it was rolled out, the way it was presented, and they kind of like, oh, everybody could equally get it from any kind of sexual act. I'm not saying this is scientific. What I'm saying is this was the market. That was the marketing.

11:55 Yeah, this is the marketing that we received. And now, hopefully, as we go through these clips, you can understand the reluctancy in medicine when you have this kind of thing that just looms. I mean, every time you have sexual interaction, it could be life or death. I mean, that's the kind of thing. That was the intent. It was there to scare. Absolutely. Yeah. So what I want to do now, like I said, we had to get into the guy, Fauci, and some background on him with clip three. At the October 13th, 1988 presidential debate, Michael Dukakis and George H.W.

12:35 Bush were asked: Who are the heroes who are there in American life today? Who are the ones that you would point out to young Americans as figures who should inspire this country? I'm askalante, Via Darris, those people that took us back into space again, sports heroes. Vice President Bush eventually responded with signing a Dr. Fauci. Probably never heard of him. You did. And heard him. He's a very fine research top doctor at National Institute of Health, working hard doing something about research on this disease of AIDS. Today, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci is best known because of his position in the coronavirus task force and for his many media appearances.

13:21 In the U.S., he's one of the most recognizable faces in the current crisis. How did this doctor go from his research lab in Bethesda, Maryland, to becoming one of the most visible medical experts on the pandemic today? Yes, indeed. I wonder how that happened. So that's from Vox. And they explains how Dr. Fauci came to be. But what I find interesting is through all of this, I didn't know who Dr. Fauci was until COVID happened. You would think he would be arm in arm with the so-called community, with you have a still looming crisis.

14:00 Like I said, I mean, when you look at the numbers, I mean, me being a super straight black man, I'm kind of down on the numbers, but for homosexual men and women, black women, this thing, they lead in both sides of, I mean, in their respective categories, maybe by a significant amount, you would think he would have a presence or we would know who he is. Well, again, for me, it was, I saw him and Burks, Dr. Burks, both of them were very, I mean, I saw Fauci at parties in Hollywood. So you were young, and it was, I think there was, you know, 20, 20 years in between.

14:43 But for the people who also remember the scathing Village Voice front page article at the time. in New York calling Fauci out for murdering people. I mean, you know what, Mo, we forget. We forget, we get distracted, there's other crap going into our brains, and there's no one recalling this. You're absolutely right. It behooves none of those guys to say, oh, remember when we did the AIDS thing so well? But the thing is, it's not finished. No, of course not. Of course not. For certain people, it is. I mean, if you have the money, the health insurance to buy those, the pep drug that you was talking, prep drugs that you were talking about, it's not a concern of yours.

15:22 And this is probably going to be something for the lost tapes: is getting into the drug commercials and how they're overrepresented by black women and homosexual men when they sell these drugs. That's a problem in itself. I'll agree with that because we've noticed that too. Because I see the, I always see the prep commercial. I'm like, and it communicates like no more AIDS. You know what I'm saying? Exactly not true. But that's not true. And it's like a paradox because one, you're representing gay men and black women in these commercials outside the distribution there in the normal population.

16:04 But then you say, oh, there's no more AIDS. It's like, well, hold on. If there's no more AIDS, then why are they being represented that way? A good question. You can't have, and that's if for people that are paying attention. And like I said, this thing has been going for 40 years now. Yep. No cure. I mean, not even, you know, the interest is not even there anymore. I mean, even Matt Johnson, he's post-AIDS. Yeah. And also I have a hard time. What's difficult is I just don't believe AIDS, if you catch AIDS, that you're going to die.

16:47 Well, when I'm saying AIDS, I'm rolling HIV, but AIDS in the woman. What I'm saying is that's how it's sold. I think that. Well, so you make a really good point. So why is that representation there if it's pretty much solved? I mean, I got you. I got because that is the general consensus. The way I see it is, oh, you know, this prep, and so it's pretty much solved. We're post-AIDS. We're post-AIDS, correct? But we're not. And like I said, I'm me being a super straight black man. I have the least amount of risk, especially being married. I mean, I'm locked in. So I don't, I mean, it wouldn't have to be a problem. But let me ask you, I need to ask you a question. Please.

17:28 Do you know anyone who died of AIDS? I do. And at very early age, I mean, this is a sad question. But recent or a long time ago? I don't know. No, I don't. Okay. So, so we agree. But I don't know anybody that had it. I mean, so to say that they died from it. I didn't know that in very many people that had AIDS. The one that stuck with me was a little girl that was assaulted by her stepfather and got it very young. I mean, that's why I kind of like it stuck with me because I'm talking about very like single-digit age. She was a victim of a sex crime, basically, caught it and died.

18:10 And that's kind of, but you hear the horror stories, you know, of people like it in church and that kind of thing, you know, of people. But I just want to make sure that you and I are on the same wavelength here. I don't believe in the story. Well, I mean, that's that's another what I'm going to say this. I believe in the symptoms when you see these guys suffering. I mean, I watched a lot of videos. I wish that way. I agree, but my point is those symptoms, I believe, came from the treatment, not from the HIV. But they're not using the same treatment anymore. Or are they? I mean, you just open up another.

18:55 I don't think there's because I don't think anyone is getting sick like that anymore. Everyone's. No, they are. They are. That's my point. I mean, just go on, you just go on YouTube and search black people AIDS. You said like serious symptoms. Okay, hold on a second. Now you freak me out with a whole nother thought. Okay. You really freak me out. Could it be this thing is only being either functioning on black people or directed to function on black people? That's a whole nother, and we talked about with COVID. This is not a COVID show. We talked about COVID, you know,

19:36 the theory that there's more receptors in the nose for black people. It's like, I mean, let's get into it. Except in Africa, for. for some reason. Right, but let's get into the clips. Okay. And I think, I could say, I like the fact that we're on two total different pages here because I think it's going to make for a very interesting conversation. Yeah, yeah, good, man. Good. Number four. Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci, thank you so much for taking the time. Dr. Fauci. Thank you. Dr. Anthony Fauci. The June 5th, 1981 weekly report by the Centers for Disease Control was a notable one.

20:15 It recorded five unusual cases of pneumonia. These cases would become known as some of the earliest reports of AIDS. The next year, Dr. Anthony Fauci wrote an early paper about the disease, which had increased to 290 recognized cases and had become a public health problem of essentially epidemic proportions. Fauci worked at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, NIAD, heading up a lab that studied immune system response. NIAD conducts research on diseases to help understand, treat, and prevent them. It falls under the National Institutes of Health, or NIH, the medical research agency part of the Department of Health and Human Services.

21:01 In the early 80s, the NIH had many institutes, with NIAD and National Cancer Institute leading investigation of the new virus and disease that would become known as HIV-AIDS. Fauci made that investigation the focus of his career. Today, we're going to be listening to Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's going to be talking about AIDS. I'm working directly on AIDS, both clinically and from a basic science standpoint. That really is one of the few, or actually one of the only subjects where you really have to change your lecture every month. Wow. He was well practiced there.

21:42 Interesting to hear his difference in voice, too. Completely different. Are we starting to see a pattern here? But like I said, this is not what this is. This is not a COVID show. But I always want to make it clear. I'm not talking about the science behind it. I'm not talking about anything. I'm not just saying. What we're talking about is the psychological baggage, the psyop. I don't want to use it in that term of being fake, but the psyop is a correct word. It's a psychological operation. Absolutely. That still is it.

22:19 And I'm just fascinated. Ongoing on it. Yes. Active. Active op. You know, because the reason why I'm saying is you, you're saying, have, you know, it seems like very close gay friends and a good size and quantity that they're not feeling the same fear that's being still spot. I mean, like, now get tested. Get tested. Your partner. You know, got to know your partner. Get tested. It's a constant focus. Oh, well, this is interesting because, yes, I certainly have many gay acquaintances and friends. And for sure, there is a testing culture. Definitely is a testing culture, but not after the fact.

23:01 It's a pre. It's like, oh, here's my test from last week or whatever. That's definitely there, but the fear the way it was, no, nowhere near. That's very interesting. And like I said, we're going to get on down the list. And by the way, that's only the white gays. I know one black gay, but he was HIV positive when I met him. He worked for me for many years and he's still alive and I could ask him. Like I said, one out too. And then we fat during comorbidities, which nobody's talking about that. That's another thing. So it's like I'm just blown back that, you know, that it's that big a divide.

23:44 I mean, I'm just shocked. But let's go and get to. So we're going back now to the Today special with Joe Fryer. And this is looking back on AIDS, looking back on AIDS 40 years. When there is resistance, was it hard to get the resources you needed? Well, in the beginning, it was. I mean, we were trying to convince people that this was not something that was going to go away. This is something that was going to get worse and worse. To raise awareness, the AIDS memorial quilt was unveiled on the national. Oh, yeah, the quilt. His organizers read the names of those who died. Some shared their stories publicly, including actor Rock Hudson, teen Ryan White, who tested positive after a blood transfusion, real world star Pedro Zamora, and basketball legend Magic Johnson.

24:35 In 1995, a combo therapy known as the AIDS cocktail was ushered in. followed by even better medications offering hope. But there was no cure for the stigma. Right now, there are millions of people with HIV suffering from social rejection because they and other people believe that they're infectious and they're not. Diagnosed in 2003, Bruce Richmond says he was terrified of giving HIV to someone else. So I didn't love. I just, I isolated myself. I was depressed, and at times I was suicidal. But then he learned medication could reduce his viral load to undetectable levels, meaning he couldn't transmit the virus.

25:15 So Bruce started an advocacy group and coined the phrase, you equals you. Undetectable equals untransmittable. Message endorsed by the CDC. That gave me hope. It meant that I could be intimate. People with HIV can live healthy lives and not pass on the virus to anyone. And that's a revolution. I'm so happy you're doing this show because this is the show that I probably couldn't put together myself, certainly not from the angle that I've always looked at it. So your approach is really a refreshing way to do this because ultimately, and I really love these comparisons, I think it's all a scam. I think it was all a scam, you know, from day one. Were people really dying?

25:58 Yeah, where'd it come from? It's all the same. It's the same players, same thing as we're seeing now. And this has been repeated in the interim as well, multiple times. And it always comes down to we're going to save you and you'll be able to live again. And as I always say, it starts with us. This was the test rune in my mind. Yeah, I'm with you on that. This was the test run. As you heard, several things. One, in the previous clip before this one, oh, it's always changing. It's one of those things that, you know, you're just going to always, you know, your studies are going to be changing two or three weeks. That kind of thing, that kind of attitude. Two, they had a quilt then, white flags now.

26:41 Totally. Totally. I love this. We'll go through all the comparisons. It's going to be good. And then the other thing was, what did the guy say? Out of fear, I isolated. Yep. I felt like I couldn't, you know, couldn't be around people. Stigma. Stigma. Yeah, but I have a totally different. You'll figure out at the end what my stance is. I don't want to ruin it for you or the producers out there, but let's go ahead and get into number six. Today, about 38,000 Americans are still diagnosed each year. DeAndre Moore was 19.

27:19 Remember staring at a window covered in butterfly stickers. In that moment, all I could think was, DM, if I could be one of those butterflies and just fly away from here, then everything is going to be okay. Ray F. Durazzi had a similar reaction. He was 27. So I knew next to nothing about what it meant to be diagnosed with HIV. It was a steep learning curve. And what did you learn? Well, I learned that I'm not going to die. I'm alive and well. You think back to that moment with the butterfly? What would you tell yourself in that moment? You're going to be okay. You're going to be just as beautiful. Today, all four of these men are undetectable.

27:59 And all are advocates, sharing their stories to educate the public and fight the stigma. It's taken us 30 years of the AIDS crisis to teach the whole world that our lives and our loves are equal to everyone else. It blows my mind just how far we've come. And then just what's possible now. So what is possible now? My mind immediately says, what isn't possible? That's the answer. When was this aired on today's show? This was aired last year, I believe.

28:40 It's good. I love the music changes and everything. It's well done. Oh, it is good. It is good. They're good. So let me ask you this question. Why do we have so many new cases? They made a point to express there's a bunch of new cases. 36,000 a year, I think they said. Right. We have this PrEP drug. Yeah, these are the fools have not. Yeah, they haven't taken it. The fools. No. Well, shouldn't well. Prep doesn't actually, I think PrEP doesn't actually stop you from getting AIDS. That's what, that's what they just said. Undetectable equals unspreadable. What did the guy say? Undetectable equals unspreadable or something like that? Oh, shit, we should go back. Hold on a second. Where was that? I think it's, no, it's in clip two at the end.

29:23 Like happened in the last 30 seconds. Okay, hold on a second. Transmit the virus. So Bruce started an advocacy group and coined just a little bit. So I didn't love. I just, I always. isolated myself. Back a little further. No, no, you get you good. You get the okay. Yeah. Because they and other people believe that they're infectious and they're not. Diagnosed in 2003, Bruce Richmond says. That's it. No, no, no, keep going. He was terrified of giving HIV to someone else. So I didn't love. I just, I isolated myself. I was depressed. And times I was suicidal. But then he learned medication could reduce his viral load to undetectable levels, meaning he couldn't transmit the virus.

30:06 So Bruce started an advocacy group and coined the phrase, you equals you. Undetectable equals untransmittable. Message endorsed. Yep. Got it. Great endorsed by the CDC. Endorsed by the CDC. Okay. Undetectable equals untransmittable. So why are we having new cases? Because shouldn't we be trying to flatten that curve? Yeah, I'm just asking. Yeah, we should lock them all up. Lock everybody. You ain't going to go there. I mean, but shouldn't we make prep drugs available for free to help this community, the LGBT community, which this drug, especially the

30:47 dark LGBT community? Why are these drugs not available for free? Well, I don't know. So I don't know the availability and the cost. I don't know if they are covered under government or social health care programs. Why can't I walk in my Safeway right now and get free prep drugs if this will flatten the curve? Have you tried? I know I'm being facetious, but I'm just saying. No, of course. I know what I can walk into Safeway and get for free right now. This is true. I'm just saying, I mean, if we're being acted in good faith, like I said, I'm just asking that question.

31:29 Yeah, no, I agree. It's Truvada, I think, is the bunch of them. Well, that's the main one, I guess. It's over 30. Oh, wow. Is it generic by now? I know it's over 30. And I know I've been seeing those commercials for a long time. A very long time, yeah. So I'm sure it is generic. I'm just saying it shouldn't even be prescription. It should be just like Halloween candy. Well, you should be able to go pick it up off your shelf and it's over-the-counter. If we can save lives. I mean, if that's what we're doing, I'm being contrary in a way, but I'm just saying that one, you can't have it both ways.

32:11 You can't have it that this is still a lingering epidemic, which it is, because like I said, people are catching it and dying from it. But at the same time, the thing that could solve this problem to make it untransmittable is not being doled out with the same energy. Holy crap. Is it because a month's supply of Truvada without insurance? Want to take a guess? $350. Try $2,000. Oh, how about that? But these people of color in the LGBT community be LGBT community.

32:56 I know it's more than that. Yeah, they can just cough it up or die, is your point. Why is it not readily available? This is a very good question. Is it because who it is? Well, you want my answer? My answer is, I mean, being rhetorical. I'm just, it may make it make sense, is what I'm saying. Okay, well, all right. Well, let's look. Okay, so clearly this has to be about money. Otherwise, why would they be doing it this way? So a bigger question is if they've traumatized Black America, so-called Black America, but they can't afford it, then what are they doing?

33:37 So who would they? Who are they advertising to? Is that your question? Yeah. It's a very good question. Maybe they're just doing it just to keep fear going and probably sell to the, you know, they sell enough to the rich people of all colors. Like I said, I'm just saying that these two marginalized groups of people should they are being treated very unfairly in this AIDS issue. I am in agreement with you, according to the social norms of today. Yes. It is an outrage. In fact, we need to have posters. Yes. Do you really love me? Is the question. Yeah. No, of course, Mo, you make a great point.

34:20 All right. So I think we stopped at six. Let's get into seven. Another key breakthrough in recent years, PrAP. It's a daily pill that people who are HIV negative can take to prevent getting the disease. As for an HIV-AIDS vaccine, well, that has not happened yet. But Dr. Fauci tells me he is cautiously optimistic that someday we will have a vaccine that is successful. 26-year-old DeAndre Moore, who you saw there, hopes that he is someday going to be part of an AIDS-free generation. And we want to give a big thank you to three organizations that helped us with that story there: the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, AIDS United, and the Prevention Access Campaign. It's incredible to see how far we've come in those decades. We all remember those scenes in the 80s, but there still is a stigma.

35:01 Isn't that what you learned? Yeah, there is. And it's actually kind of amazing, especially with young people, which is surprising. So, a recent survey of HIV-negative millennials found that nearly a third of them say they avoid hugging, talking to, or even being friends with someone with HIV. People living with HIV often report being hesitant still to openly share their status because they fear losing friends or family, or they even fear abuse, whether it's physical, emotional, or mental. Reminds us of Billy Porter just last week, who just announced it. A big sign of bravery, even now, is needed now, just as more than before. And he waited 14 years, waited to tell his mother. So that stigma is still there. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. I didn't know that about Billy Porter. A man that's openly will wear a dress

35:45 with even afraid of the stigma. Yeah. And I'm just saying, I mean, however, you see it, I mean, he's willing to present himself as he is with that aspect of his life. But his status, no. Does he? Let me see, Billy Porter. Does he do any commercials? I'm not, I haven't seen him in any commercials that I can recall. But it's a formula to those commercials. It's two black gay. Oh, he's in a whole bunch of them. Okay.

36:21 It's two black gay guys, one brown gay guy, a white guy, a transgender person of any color, and then a couple of black women. You're so right. Here, December 2019, Johnson Johnson TV commercial, HIV exploratory vaccine. Oh, he's shilling for big pharma. Oh, he's pushing the vax. The vax is a whole we're going to have to get in. We've talked about prep and why it's not readily available to the point where it should be over the counter. I would think. Where, like I said, I can walk in today and get something for free.

37:03 Yeah. If society decides that's what we need to do, but we have these people that don't have two grand that can't afford these drugs and they're left to die. Waste away. I mean, it's the same. Nothing's changing. It's like the tone of this whole thing. This doesn't exist. Why does it take Mofax and Adam Curry to have this conversation when these people are still wasting away like it's the 80s? Nothing's changed in 40 years for certain people. Correct. Certainly the fear has not gone away. There's a whole discussion. Oh, no. Two generations. Two generations that have been burdened with this. Yes.

37:42 You want to hear Billy Porter in the Johnson Johnson commercial? Please go ahead. Knock it out. Let's see what he was doing back in the day here. This is 2019. All right, sitting down. So listen, I first started working with Johnson Johnson because of their work in HIV. They've been at it for over 30 years. Developing medicine that allows people to live normal lives with HIV, educating people about how to protect themselves from HIV, training doctors and nurses, raising public awareness. And now they are working to develop an exploratory vaccine that could one day prevent HIV all together.

38:27 No. After successful trials in Africa, clinical trials are about to start. Africa is that you go, Johnson Johnson. You go. And you thought they were just a baby company. Effective. Very effective. I know they do sell some poisonous powder, allegedly. Yeah, but ain't gonna bring that up. That's hilarious. That's so true. It's amazing, like what people do. But this vaccine. So now we got to get into that.

39:07 Where they were at over the time. This next clip comes from 2007 talking about the vaccine. But it's amazing. What was this new technology to help these marginalized communities? Welcome to the New England Journal of Medicine. I'm Dr. Terry Schrader. With me today is Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Fauci has written a perspective article entitled An HIV Vaccine: Challenges and Prospects to be published in the August 28th, 2008 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

39:45 Welcome, Dr. Fauci. Thank you. Good to be here. First of all, why has the 30-year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body, in its natural response to natural infection, does not make an adequate or an appropriate immune response to do virtually every I just caught something. He said natural infection. Ooh, let me roll that back. Hold on. I heard that clip 10 times. I've never heard that before.

40:26 Let's listen again. Let's listen again. First of all, why has the 30-year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body, in its natural response to natural infection, does not make an adequate or an appropriate immune response to do what virtually every other exposure to other viruses do. Yeah, interesting he put that in there. What's the unnatural? I mean, if you had to say natural, then what's an unnatural infection? Injection? Maybe. I'm just saying, I just never heard that. Good question.

41:10 Or, or, or it could mean natural as in some pathogen or virus that is natural and not jacked up in a lab. You can hear it either way. I just wanted to point out that he said that. Yeah, he did. And take some examples: smallpox, measles, polio, all of those viruses can kill, they can maim, they can make people seriously ill. But at the end of the day, the body's immune system ultimately clears the virus from the body, eradicates it completely, and allows the body to have protection against subsequent challenge.

41:47 So, nature has already done the experiment to tell us that not only is a vaccine feasible, a vaccine is likely because we know the immune response is capable of doing that. The problem with HIV is that literally, in an unprecedented way, HIV does not elicit a protective immune response in the body. And in fact, of the tens of millions of people who've been infected with HIV, there's not a single documented case of someone with established infection who's actually eradicated the virus from the body. And the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus.

42:29 So, we have to do something that others who do vaccines for other viruses don't have to do. We have to do better than nature. We have to do better than natural infection. Man, this guy's had a good rap for a long time. We got to do better than natural infection. We got to do better than nature, which to my ears say we got to do better than God. Sure. Just as a believer, that's what I hear. And like, what? Yeah, that's a natural infection. I don't understand. Because even if you present a vaccine to somebody as in like the normal vaccines, flu, whatever, that's still the natural infection.

43:12 I don't know what an unnatural infection is. That troubles me. I mean, I've never heard that before, and I'm still processing. Let's see if there's an entry anywhere. Natural infection versus vaccination. Okay, natural infection is the opposite, or is the no, that's not the word I would say. This is from science. This is from Rockefeller. These are the guys that make the shit up, so they might as well be defining it. Rockefeller salt. Here you go. Natural infection versus vaccination. So if you are vaccinated, you have been infected in a non-natural way.

43:55 So I'm going to go back and listen to that clip. I mean, not now. I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. Hear what he's saying because he's saying, because he then goes on to say in natural infection, and then he goes and specifies like vaccination, like it's in line with natural infection. He's saying, if you're giving a vaccine and a natural infection, if you give them a vaccine of a natural, this is what I'm telling you I've heard, and I'm not saying that's what he meant, but to my ears, it's like if you give them a vaccine of a natural infection, the immune system can kick in. He didn't say them like they were too conflicting or I think it's worth listening again. Let's listen again critically. The two of us, yeah, this is this is what hey, it's a podcast. If people are bored, they can fast forward two minutes.

44:36 We will be right back with you. Welcome to the New England Journal of Medicine. I'm Dr. Terry Schrader. With me today is Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infections of Health. Here we go. Dr. Fauci has written a perspective article entitled An HIV Vaccine: Challenges and Prospects. It's about to vaccine. It was published in the August 28th, 2008 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine. Welcome, Dr. Fauci. Thank you. Good to be here. And maybe a reminder for ourselves: at the time of this interview, there was no mRNA voodoo. No, it's 2007. It's 2000 just straight up. Yeah, so that means that the way vaccines worked is this attenuated virus, a dead virus, a deactivated virus, in a vaccine.

45:20 That's how it was done. First of all, why has the 30-year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body, in its natural response to natural infection, does not make an adequate or an appropriate immune response to do what virtually every other exposure to other viruses do. All right, so he's saying that everybody, that there's tens of millions of people who have this virus, but these tens of millions of people who have this virus, their body doesn't react to it like it's a hostile intruder.

46:06 Correct. Interesting. Okay. And take some examples: smallpox, measles, polio, all of those viruses can kill, they can maim, they can make people seriously ill. But at the end of the day, the body's immune system ultimately clears the virus from the body, eradicates it completely, and allows the body to have protection against subsequent challenge. So nature has already done the experiment to tell us that not only is a vaccine feasible, a vaccine is likely because we know the immune response is capable of doing that.

46:41 The problem with HIV is that literally, in an unprecedented way, HIV does not elicit a protective immune response in the body. And in fact, of the tens of millions of people who've been infected with HIV, there's not a single documented case of someone with established infection who's actually eradicated the virus from the body. And the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus. So we have to do something that this is. And do you have anything about PCR coming up? No. Because the PCR test was developed

47:27 around the same time as the AIDS crisis, and it was being used as a test. And this is where Kerry Mullis, the inventor of PCR, said this is not a you cannot use this as a test for HIV because everyone has HIV if you magnify it enough. We've talked about the cycles and how many times more cycles, more so. So it's mind-boggling. This is a very important clip, actually. It's mind-boggling because here he's saying, oh, you know, like tens of millions of people have it and no one's ever gotten rid of it. You could replace that with tens of millions of people have corona SARS-CoV-2

48:11 if you do a PCR test, just like HIV, but they're never going to get rid of it. No, because no one can get rid of everything. So this clip, to me, is him saying, you know what, there's all these people who have it, and some people go on to be sick, but no one else does. This is very interesting. He eradicated the virus from the body, and the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus. So we have to do something. Wait. Now he's saying something different. No, hold on. Now he's saying, wait, let's go back. I'm missing something.

48:50 Protective immune response in the body. And in fact, of the tens of millions of people who've been infected with HIV, there's not a single documented case of someone with established infection who's actually eradicated the virus from the body. And the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus. So we have to do something that others others who do vaccines for other viruses don't have to do. We have to do better. He's saying that, he's saying something contradictory. That's why I told you. I don't, like I said, we could just leave. Yeah, we're going to have to revisit that. Yeah, we will. That was some mumbo jumbo right there. Beautiful. Because the two things he's saying conflict. We'll just take words.

49:36 I'm sorry. No, I'm just saying, because the reason why I'm saying that is it's kind of like the main point of it is: out of all of these viruses, here comes something that's so surgical, no pun intended, that it attacks the very system that should detect it. Yep. Huh? I mean, but it's, and then you call it, you say it's not natural. Those are the two only two takeaways I'm taking it from it. So, what is it? And now we're going to get more into the efficacy of the vaccine that they've tried for HIV in number nine. All right, for the first time, a vaccine has tested positive in preventing HIV infections.

50:20 That's according to a U.S.-funded study involving more than 16,000 volunteers in Thailand. The combination of vaccine-prevented infections in about 30% of the people on the trial as compared with those on a placebo. The combination vaccine includes ALVAC made by Santa Fe Aventis and AIDS VAC made by VaxGen. Neither vaccine has independently stopped the HIV virus in previous studies. AIDS experts say the results could transform future research and spur scientists to use the process that created this vaccine to create even better ones. Well, Matt, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease funded the Breakthrough HIV vaccine study. Its director, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is the top federal official responsible for AIDS research.

51:05 He joins us right now. Dr. Fauci, great to have you with us. Give us some perspective. We've been working on research for AIDS for many, many years. I mean, how significant is this? Well, it's a very important finding in the sense that it's opened doors now that were really closed. And let me explain. We have been attempting to get an effective vaccine for literally over two decades, and everything that has been tried has been a complete failure, really, no signal of any kind of even slight efficacy. The fact that we have in this large trial involving 16,000 people a 31.2% efficacy, it's a modest efficacy. It's not something that's prime time, as it were. Modest.

51:51 32% is modest. Modest is not even in the middle, man. This below is below. But okay. And they're testing in Thailand, and it's just a little bit of Thailand. Yeah. And as a little background, this was two years after the sit-down with the New England Journal of Medicine. So this is 2009 now. Okay. So if you want to go and jump into part two, we can. It's a modest efficacy. It's not something that's prime time, as it were, but it's going to allow us to pursue what the potential mechanism of that protection is because now we have a foundation upon which to ask the questions that will hopefully allow us to get efficacy of

52:33 vaccines much higher than 30-ish percent, up to 60, 70, or 80% where we want to be. So although this is a very important finding, it needs to be taken in context and in perspective that it's more of a roadway to a lot of work that needs to be done as opposed to an end in and of itself. So, I mean, the question then is: what's the next step here? I mean, do you work more with these vaccines? Do you need a new trial? Maybe a more controlled study? Do you work on new vaccines that come from these vaccines? Where do you see the next steps, Dr. Pauci? You know, that's a very good question. The next step is to try and figure out what we call the correlate of immunity.

53:12 Go back and look at the samples we've collected, draw bloods from the people who are in the trial, and try and figure out if there's a clue as to what particular laboratory parameter that you could follow that would be an indication that it correlated with this protection. And once you get that, then you start to design vaccines with some similarity and some differences that are aimed at inducing that particular parameter that you've linked to protection. Because up to now, we don't have any idea of what of many, many immunological or laboratory phenomena, namely the body's ability to respond to a virus, we don't know what particular component of that would be associated with protection against infection.

53:56 We didn't even know if it existed until recently because we've never had a positive effect like this. This is 2008, 2009, you said? 2009. Yeah, they were already doing mRNA with this. this at this point. I think he's already letting that slip through. I didn't want to lead you there. But 2007, he was for certain. We don't even know what to do. And then now it's like, oh, we have this new technology. Yeah. And then Bloomberg brings you on and they're trying to pry you for financial information. This is a financial, this is a financial. I mean, Bloomberg. Oh, he was on Bloomberg? Yes. Oh, yeah. Of course, this is setting up. Okay. We haven't heard a name yet. Who's going to be making it?

54:38 Who are the licensees? Who's got patents? Uh-huh. Yeah. Like, so which way are we going now, Fauci? Like, if you could just listen to the tone of the question, they're like trying to apply him for information. Yeah, they want to know if money's going to flow. That's what they want to know. Uh-huh. So like I said, I didn't want to leave you to the mRNA, but I'm thinking the same thing. That big of a change in tone, you have zero efficacy and you're shooting for 70. Like I said, the target was 60 or 70% up to 80% in that short period of time. I found that very interesting. But we can go ahead and get to get to number three. All right. So Dr. Fauci, you've mentioned you've been working on this or everyone's been working on this for a couple of decades. You mentioned this is the foundation.

55:21 So how many more years are we talking potentially before there is the next significant step here? Well, you know, to be honest with you, I can't tell you that. It's certainly going to be measured in years. I mean, some people, when they hear an announcement like this, they think, well, next year we're going to wind up having a vaccine. That's not only extraordinarily unlikely, it's virtually impossible that that's going to happen. It's going to be measured in years. I can't tell you how many years, but if we had this conversation six months ago and you asked me that, I would say, I can't even tell you if we're even ever going to get a vaccine. Now, at least I have some cautious optimism that we're on the right path, but I can't put a number for you about how many years. Are there other steps that are more likely to prevent a stronger AIDS breakout?

56:05 I mean, are some people, for example, genetically predisposed to resist the AIDS virus? Yeah, there are a group of people, but they are such a relatively small fraction of the population. There's a genetic defect that doesn't make anybody sick, but it doesn't allow the virus to infect you. It's seen in 1% of the Caucasian population and in virtually 0% of African population. So it's not something that is broadly applicable to the population. The best thing to do is behavioral things, you know, avoid unsafe sex, use a condom when you want to do the kinds of things we've been talking about. Six feet socially distanced during sex.

56:47 Oh, man. Mo, this is, I'm so, I got to say it again. I'm so happy you're doing this. This is not an easy show to put together. So who's the 1%? That's the rich white people, brother. No, that's the lizard people. It doesn't work on the lizard people. Exactly. Thank you very much. All right. I identify with that remark. Very good. Yeah. I love that. Oh, like, oh, African-American, but 1% of Caucasian people. Yeah. Are appearing Caucasian people. He should have slipped in a little bullet. That was rude. That was just rude. No, I'm just saying, like, well, you know how we are with the lizard people.

57:29 It's like, does it not affect their species? Anyone who doesn't sweat, which will work perfectly if we all know all roles lead to depopulation. So if they're sitting back like, hey, 1% of us is just still going to be sitting around. Yeah, put this thing out here. Now, let me just go somewhere for a minute. Since we got here, if you wanted to get rid of have a controlled demolition of society and you wanted to get rid of the undesirables at the time being homosexuals, people of color, if I'm that 1%, they couldn't get infected. Say, I am the lizard man.

58:11 AIDS is perfect. It's like, we can't catch it. It won't harm any people that we desire to stay around. Well, roll it out. This is exactly what, and it's kind of interesting in context of today. This is exactly how gay men felt of all colors, but all gay men felt that they were being targeted. And Fauci, this was in the press. This was mainstream. Fauci is killing gay men to depopulate. Well, let's just war game it out, right? You know, we know we're safe.

58:48 And heterosexual white people will pretty much be safe because that are adhering to the Judeo-Christian stay inside your marriage. So they're good. No. Hold on, hold on. Yeah. You mean the way they thought or just in the middle of the day? No, understand the way the lizard people think. I'm sorry, gotcha. Yes. Okay. I'm thinking as a lizard. I see the tongue. All right. So it won't spill over. And if it does spill over, obviously they're participating in buggery or something that we feel is undesirable. So they need to go too. Yeah. I'm just saying. Yeah. No, it's look, the slogan AIDS is crowd control existed a long time ago.

59:33 This is definitely a thought at the time. Yeah, of course. But I didn't know about this 1%. That's kind of cool. The lizards. That's good. All right. So this is a little snippet, just 30 seconds. Just to hear you, to hear the financial aspect of it. 3.5. Dr. Fauci, what does this do, though, for the drug companies around the world? We had Santa Fe Aventis, and I believe it was VaxGen who had the two vaccinations that were brought together in this recent development. Does it harness everyone involved because of this kind of big step forward? You know, I can't speak for pharmaceutical companies. I'm sorry. They're going to make their decisions, their business decisions, based on what they do internally.

1:00:16 Do you think they'll be more interested, though, with this development? Well, that's a no-brainer. Of course, they're going to be more interested in it if you have a successful product. All right. We're going to leave it there. Dr. Fauci, thanks so much. Dr. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. Very interesting. The collaboration there, just like Pfizer BioNTech. They were pressing them hard for like a just a stock. They're like, give us. Yeah. And this is what's so crazy. So if you look at the players in the COVID vaccinations, like Moderna, that wasn't even, it was barely a company. It was just one big failed glob of crap.

1:00:55 And then everyone piled in. Everyone was buying shares. And, you know, their stock has gone up like $300 or something. It's crazy. And I would like to see who those smaller companies that were listed in that part were tied to. Right. You know, because they're kind of probably like the Moderna of their time. Oh, sure. Like, you know, these little outlets. Yeah, like BioNTech, Moderna. You know, those are much smaller. And then, of course, you have Pfizer, which is the big, they've got the sales. They got the Rolodex. They got the sales channel. Well, now we're going to fast forward to present day. And this is Fauci. He was brought on MSNBC to talk about the possibilities of an AIDS vaccine now that what we've seen with COVID-19.

1:01:41 Let me ask you about actually the point about developing a vaccine 40 years into your work on HIV and AIDS. Does the development process and the success with the COVID vaccines give us, should that give us any new hope for an HIV vaccine? Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's a really good question because the technologies that were developed, the mRNA technology, the success of using very elegant techniques of the conformational correct form of the immunogen in the right form to engage the immune system to optimally make a good response. You know, it was back and forth, Rachel.

1:02:23 What was done with HIV early on, though unsuccessful with the vaccine, went the long way to make success for the COVID-19 vaccine. And the technologies that have now been perfected, particularly the mRNA technology and other vaccine platforms that were perfected and used in COVID-19, I believe strongly will go back and be able to really forward and advance the HIV effort. In fact, there are scientists right now, even as we speak, that are using what the COVID-19 effort has inspired us to do to start working on that for HIV.

1:03:05 So it's just science at its best, you know, contributions back and forth with the fundamental core of it being the investment that one makes in basic biomedical research, which is really the resounding success story of the scientific approach to COVID-19 vaccines and has resulted in already saving millions of lives. Oh, oh, saving lives. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, just something just struck me. Earlier, we heard in the clip that the efficacy of what you and I are presuming is early mRNA technology was 37%. And that was. So if you look at the now, not the absolute,

1:03:51 you know, if you look at what they're touting as efficacy, you know, it started off at 99, 98, 97. Do you? know where it is today, admittedly? It's around 37%. This is very interesting. This is very interesting. Yes, this is fantastic. This is a find. But also, my question is: if you've been sitting on this technology and you've been the number one AIDS guy for 40 years, and it's clear that you've had this breakthrough in 2009, why are we just not hearing about getting around to AIDS vaccine? That should have been the leader.

1:04:33 Yeah. I think I'm just saying, like from saving lives aspect, I'm just acting in good faith. Oh, and we got this thing that's killing people and we're still spreading. And this has been my life's purpose is to be to defeat this monster called AIDS. Why didn't you kick it off to them first? It wasn't ready, man. Oh, okay. All of a sudden, it just wasn't ready. Oh, we got something. But that's like me. And I'm going to give you an analogy. That's like you lose your wallet and then I don't say anything.

1:05:13 And then you ask, hey, have you seen my wallet? And I'm like, oh, yeah, it's right here. Yeah. I had your whole damn wallet the whole damn time. Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's that's not troubling to people. Shady. Yeah, this whole show is troubling to people, Moe. You know what I'm saying? You're just sitting on the answer, huh? You're just not going to fork it over. Yeah. He was marginalized. He was waiting for a bigger market. Come on. The whole world versus a bunch of gays. Come on. Well, I'm going to say, I'm going to ask this. Good to go on the other side, sinister side of it, and remind people this is not a COVID show.

1:05:52 Could it be that your big fear of having multiple gay people falling dead is bad? Say it that again. Having multiple people, gay people fall dead from your HIV vaccine. Oh, you know, that would be very bad. Yes. Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. Hold, stop. I'm with you. Okay. So here, let's game it out again, shall we? Okay. Sure. So we know that the real moneymaker long term, because it won't be necessarily a public health crisis like COVID, is things like an AIDS vaccine. Why? Because everyone who wants to have sex is going to want to have this vaccine.

1:06:36 And completely voluntary. You don't have to mandate it. Everyone will be like, hey, man, I might as well do it. So what they're doing now is now they're actually perfecting it with this massive scale and a whole bunch of people where we have the media and politicians and a lot of stakeholders covering up the adverse events, the deaths, all of this stuff. And distracting. Well, they are literally tweaking this. They're tweaking this stuff. And it's for longer term goals like AIDS, like cancer, et cetera, et cetera. So now it makes a lot of sense.

1:07:17 I'm sorry? You can't start with because you can't start with AIDS. No, no, no, no, you're absolutely right. Because if people die of AIDS, you're killing gay people. You can't do that. But if it's just a whole bunch of suckers, you know, who don't really hear about and they're wherever, just poor people, rich people, you know, once in a while we get a celebrity. Don't worry, we'll cover that up. You know, that was a complication from COVID. It wasn't the vaccine or anything like that. Well, they learned from the first time of that. But so Fauci, he's 80 now, so he's probably only got a couple more years. So time to get this going with the AIDS stuff, too. Yep. So I just, I just want to point. No, that's really good. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. All right.

1:07:58 So now we're going back to the Vox segment. Dr. Fauci Explain 3. Fauci was named director of NIAD in 1984. And the then director of health and human services highlighted Fauci's background in immunology and infectious diseases as a main reason for his appointment. A major effort was directed at determining if a variant of this virus could actually cause depletion of lymphocytes or acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. And as it turned out, a variant of that virus, in fact, caused the syndrome. Fauci's leading early research helped define NIAD as the Central NIH Institute for AIDS.

1:08:38 And he made it a point to be the person communicating key findings to the public and media. The scientific data is overwhelming that in fact, AIDS cannot be transmitted by casual contact. But it was a later political. political test that shows how Fauci navigated the AIDS crisis and secured his career. In the summer of 1988, playwright Larry Kramer wrote an open letter to Anthony Fauci, calling him an incompetent idiot and a murderer. His opinion was broadly reflective of activists, most notably the organization Kramer inspired, the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power, or ACT Up.

1:09:21 In 1986, Fauci had reinforced his position as the leading scientist for the federal AIDS effort. He created a new division to focus on the disease and earned other significant NIH posts. But progress was slow, especially for a disease as deadly as AIDS, where patients died on average 15 months after diagnosis. So this goes to speak to what we were speaking about previously. You can't have the dead bodies in the street. And he caught a lot of flack from it from Larry Kramer. So yeah, a lot of this is coming back now. Okay. Yeah. It's a lot of parallels. And one thing he did say, he used the word variant there as well.

1:10:05 Yeah. Remember, this is not a COVID show. And it's not. And he said, 19, that was 1984. I think he was making that speech that they segmented. I saw this with an address. I saw it, but I didn't clip anything from it because it's very tedious to follow through. But yeah, he used the word. So is it other HIVs out here? I know there was a, like I said, urban legend. Just go by what we got to talk about. We're talking about the PsyOp here, not the medicine. Well, I never heard of this. This is another good one. I never heard of an HIV variant. I did. You did? Yes. Super AIDS. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I recall super AIDS. Yeah. But where'd it go?

1:10:50 Superman got it and took it away. I don't know. I'm just saying, where did I make that? It's probably the publications reread, but a lot of the like hip-hop. And like I said, hip-hop had a lot to do with AIDS as well. And just for it, I'm going to show you how powerful the AIDS initiative was. The intro song was a song by Old Dirty Bastard. Yep. It's called Shimmy Shimiya. And the hook goes, ooh, baby, I like it. Raw. You know what I'm saying? They made him change that. Oh, really? Actually, he recorded PSA. Oh, really? Yes. Jeez. So that must have been at the height of, because I mean, the money.

1:11:36 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Five minutes. Yeah. Even earlier, even earlier than that. The money that was being spent on AIDS advocacy was unreal, Mo. I've been, I, I remember with someone else's money, I bought Michael Jackson's Fedora hat, which I think was like $3,500 as some benefit, you know, which I then gave away, of course, as some radio promotion. But the point was, that was just me. There was a lot of money flowing. It was crazy. And it still is because getting tested is a huge thing.

1:12:19 Do you know your status? Right, you know, I'm just talking about marketing and Hollywood, and that was unparalleled at the time. The concerts, Elton John. Yeah. So I guess we can go ahead and get to part four. Explain. Fauci and Nyad were responsible for starting trials for new drugs, which the FDA required for approval. In June 1986, NIAD created a network of clinical trial centers around the country, though they were criticized as ineffective. Activists argued that the NIH, the FDA, and leadership up to President Reagan had failed to take the crisis seriously.

1:13:04 This photo from an October 1988 protest shows the key complaints. At the time, the FDA's lengthy drug approvals required strict scientific clinical trials. It was textbook science, but the disease killed at a faster pace than the FDA's process. If you entered a trial, a certain percentage of patients got the drug and a certain percentage got a placebo. This helped test if the drugs were safe and if they really worked. That was important because many AIDS drugs didn't pan out. But with AIDS, getting a placebo was a death sentence. And that meant fewer volunteers for clinical trials.

1:13:42 The epidemic needed a radical approach, but experimental approaches like aerosolize pentamidine weren't being approved. The drug helped treat one of the most common infections caused by AIDS, yet trials had been delayed by NIAT, which Fauci blamed on insufficient staff. Under pressure, he acknowledged the approval problem in 1988, testifying in Congress that he would go for what is available on the street if he were a patient. A blunt rebuke to FDA policy, keeping these new approaches out of reach. Oh, that's when we got the buyers' clubs. Go to what's available on the street, huh? That's what you say. Wow.

1:14:26 Holy crap. Try that now. Yeah. But keep it. Anything you would like to say about that? That's a lot. It was a lot. No, no, no, I'm just letting it flow. Let it flow over me. Well, this will be in conjunction with the previous clip. This is actually, I have Larry Kramer. This is him getting angry. And this is at the Connecticut Forum in 1993. The president promised to appoint his most important White House appointments within by the time he was elected. He campaigned that the AIDS are one of these.

1:15:08 There is no AIDS are. There is no person that they're even interviewing for an AIDS are. I fear, and I dread to make a prediction, but I fear that these next four years, as far as AIDS are concerned, are going to be just as bad as the last eight years, 12 years. Now I know we're supposed to be nice to him, give him his honeymoon. I haven't got time for a honeymoon. Mary Fisher doesn't have time for a honeymoon.

1:15:50 This doctor here from your own city doesn't have time for a honeymoon. One billion people don't have time for a honeymoon. I see a red light is on out there. I guess I've exceeded my six minutes. What have I learned in the last 12 years? Is the question that is always asked me on interviews? I went to Yale. I was assistant to the president of two major United States corporations, Columbia Pictures and United Artists Corporation. I have made films that have won Academy Awards.

1:16:32 I have an Academy Award nomination myself. I am a rich man in monetary terms. In the last 12 years, I have learned what it is like to be treated like a kite, like a nigger, like a stick, like a faggot, like a piece of shit. I have learned that people are not very nice. That there is no such thing as the Judeo-Christian tradition. And that intentional genocide is allowed.

1:17:16 You know what's really remarkable is how loud these voices were back in the day, gay men, and they have zero voice. Now, gay men are, you know, they're just, they're outcast. And they led a lot of this. Yeah. And that's the, that's the thing. Their power is gone. It's just been removed. Well, it's been co-opted by in their community. I mean, they're experiencing the same thing. Yes. And every other community. It's not the sexual previous trans lives matters, etc.

1:17:59 Well, it's not your preference of sexual preference. It's your masculinity, period. Yeah, good point. Yeah, good point. Men got to go. Black men got to go. White men got to go. Gay men got to go. Men have to go. And that's the whole plan is to marginalize all these other groups. Because, like you said, to the point where you're actually being kicked out of your group. I mean, we're all experiencing this. What do you think they want to do with us? What do you mean? We only need one of us per a thousand? 10,000? I mean, I mean, why not just do it like the old Egyptian day Jays, you know, like

1:18:40 Cleopatra? You know, she's like, we're going to be slaves. You know, it's okay. Just sex slaves. Just feed us. us. Let's have football. No, but you don't need a lot of them. Yeah, I know. That's the thing. Like, I mean, well, to give a parallel, they want to make us eunuchs in a way. Unless you have something to offer sexually, attractive men, like you always pointed out, attractive men don't get me to. Correct. If you don't have anything to offer sexually, then you're basically a eunuch. Shut up and just do work and keep your head down. And that goes for all men. That goes for all men. That's crazy. He thought, you know,

1:19:23 and what's happening now is he experienced that as a white man then. Yeah. To say, oh, even white men could be genocide. Yeah. That was new for him. Like he, you heard the words that he used as what he was going through with, right? Now it's gay men are experiencing that because they kicked in the LGBT, excuse me, LGBT, LGBT door. And now they're like, shut up and sit in the corner. Oh, yeah. No, this is. Black men kicked in their civil rights door. Now shut up and get in the corner. It's an insult that they're included in the acronym. There should be no G in the LGBTQQIAPK plus.

1:20:03 Well, they're the green men are the black. I'm just saying, but I'm just going to illustrate your point further. The same way they say black men are the white men of black people. Gay men are the straight men of gay people. Yeah, I know what you mean. You said it. You said it really weird. Yeah. It sounds weird when you say I'm the white man of black people. But it's the same thing. It's like, no, now you're the dominant factor inside the group. Well, no, so you got to go. Okay, so clearly what we have to do is we have to turn it around since we all know the black man goes first.

1:20:44 We need to lift the black man up to lead the return back into our rightful place. Well, you restore it. What you restore is a masculine-led society, and that's not led in the sense of, oh, you know, like oppression. That's in, you know, fatherly. That's why the patriarch is so under attack. Because it's about leadership. Right. Well, exactly. But you know what? Right now, I only see black men standing up and saying this. You, Jason Whitlock, recently on, I think you saw him on Tucker doing this.

1:21:23 Well, when you're back against the walk seat, a lot of these other groups think there's negotiation. We realize there's negotiating. There's no negotiating. Right. I mean, there's no, I mean, like, we've, we're at the bottom. Like, next thing, this is going to lead us great into another clip. What he felt, well, he thought he could negotiate. Like, he was talking about Clinton. He was like, we got to be nice to him, give him his honeymoon period. There is no honeymoon period. Right. We knew how it was going to happen after the 2020 election. We were ready. We had batting hatches. You see what I'm saying? Like, we knew what was going to happen. So when you say we, is there a phone call that I should be on from time to time? No,

1:22:07 it's a psychological. Well, I think the thing like formation, right? It can happen both ways. You get your mind around the idea. And when you're looking to the left and the right, it's like... You're going to see it everywhere you need to. Yeah. So I want to get into the point of benign neglect. And that's what Larry Kramer was experiencing. And this is Dr. Frances Chris Wilson. And she's going to explain what benign neglect is. What racism, white supremacy is the effect of racism because the more the victims of racism, white supremacy are kept in a state of ignorance,

1:22:48 then that enhances the strength of the system itself. And every effort is made to block black people penetrating and having an in-depth understanding of racism, white supremacy. It's my understanding that the Attorney General Eric Holder, in commenting upon the Supreme Court Chief Justice, said that the Chief Justices said the way to deal with racism is to not talk about it. You see, that would be the same in medicine. The way to deal with cancer is to not talk about it.

1:23:30 And so then the patient and everybody else who might be afflicted with cancer, they just go forward and die because it's being ignored. ignored or being given benign neglect. I think that was President Reagan's term about how to deal with racism. So that's what you alluded to about Jason Whitlock and what we do here at the show. And you've heard it to several other people that we realize shutting up is what they want us to do. Yeah, that's an end. No, no, no. We're going out kicking and screaming. If we're going to go out, spitting in the mic all the way, Mo, all the way.

1:24:13 So, let's see. Now, okay, now we got to go back because this is a throwback clip from Show 44. That was Big Bank Barry about Barack Obama. And this is Reverend Wright. And it's something that we didn't catch in there. I'm not going to say it. I want you to listen in the context of what we're talking about now. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed.

1:24:51 She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters, put them on action auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experience, experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness.

1:25:30 The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God bless America. No, no, no. Not God bless America. God damn America that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating her citizens as less than human. God damn America, as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is supreme. Man, that was so assassinated in the media. Yes. Oh my goodness. But Obama was embarrassed by it himself.

1:26:10 Well, there's a he first of all, being associated with somebody that speaks like that with that tone, the tone itself. Yeah. You know, he played the I'm nice and I'm non-threatening. And I'll just, no, I'll be quiet. I mean, you heard Dr. Francis Chris Wilson allude to Eric Holder, one of his pics of just don't talk about it. You know, just don't talk about it. And this was bad for the messaging. Yeah. So they had to condemn him. Well, one of the things Jeremiah Wright was known about was

1:26:48 preaching about AIDS and where it came from. In your sermon, you said the government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. So I ask you, do you honestly believe your statement and those words? Have you read Horowitz's book, Emerging Viruses, AIDS and Ebola? Whoever wrote that question. Have you read Medical Apartheid? You read it? You honestly. I believe. No questions from the floor. I read different things. As I said to my members, if you haven't read things and you can't, yeah, based on this Tuskegee experiment and based on what has happened to Africans in this country, I believe our government is capable of doing anything.

1:27:34 In fact, in fact, in fact, one of the responses to what Saddam Hussein had in terms of biological warfare was a non-question because all we had to do was check the sales record. We sold him those biological weapons that he was using against his own people. So any time a government can put together biological warfare to kill people and then get angry when those people use what we sold them, yes, I believe we are capable. That's the part you didn't hear about. I recall the clip, but no, for all, for all intents and purposes, no, no one heard that.

1:28:17 Did you hear him engage Tuskegee? Yes, of course. That's what I'm talking about. Hear the floor push back and like, AIDS. It was like there was an uproar. He's like, okay, I need to, you know what I'm saying, get them off of me. Yeah, Tuskegee. Right. Uh. We call that, we have a term benign neglect. Yeah, but this, but that's a reflexive thing. Like, get off off me. Yeah, of course. Of course. Give me time to think about an answer. Let me jam this out at you. And it was a great example of what I've been saying about how Tuskegee is you. And what we're talking about, underlying about don't trust doctors, period. As far as

1:29:01 the solutions they have. Tuskegee is also, it's also great because, you know, as you point out, it's like, yeah, get off my back. Let me think about some more here. So I'll just throw it Tuskegee. Tuskegee is long. It's hard to say. It's interesting. You don't really hear it. You have to make sure you don't say Tuskegee Airmen. So it's like, it's a really good one because I think it's relatively short, but it gives you double the punch on how much more time you got to figure out what you're going to say next. Yes. And I just wanted to lay that out. But he lays out some heavy names there, horror wits and other people. But before we do that, we got to show appreciation to the people that make this possible.

1:45:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Horowitz. There's like a million of them. So go ahead and get into this is the origins of AIDS and Ebola viruses. Let me just share with you quickly how I got started. You would never imagine this in 1982 when I was finishing up my Harvard Master's in Public Health. And I was asked, would I would like to, would I like to participate in educating gay folks and others about this thing called gay-related immune deficiency? This was before it was called AIDS. And I said, nah, I don't want to deal with that disease at all. I don't want to think about that at all. Here I am, 15 years later, 16 years later.

1:46:41 And what am I doing traveling around the world telling people about the man-made origins of AIDS and Ebola? Wow. I was working over here. My favorite area of research and teaching was in self-care, healthy human development, motivational psychology, teaching people, like Danny does, how to take better care of themselves, boost their immune systems. So I was really into that. I love that. That's my favorite thing. And one day, kind of like the miracle happened where there was a crisis, and I was the right person at the right time. It was 1990, July 27th, 1990, when the case of the Florida dental AIDS tragedy hit the press.

1:47:21 You remember the case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with the AIDS virus? Oh, man, do I remember that? Do you remember it from then? I remember it. I mean, like, just being on the news with my dad, you know what I'm saying, watching the news, but I don't recall it like that. I remember it like it being a big thing. Like, oh, Dennis, they're giving people AIDS, you know, that kind of thing. You want to go talk about it? No, no, no, no, no. I'm just, I'm just remarking that I vividly recall that. Okay, well, I have a local clip from now from the local news. Dr. Acker's case is bringing national attention to our area tonight and to the increasing fears over how the AIDS virus has spread.

1:48:03 Nowhere has the impact of AIDS been so tragic than here in our area where a young woman is the first in the country to claim she contracted the deadly disease from a medical caregiver. The implications for you. and for the health community are enormous. In the first of my three-part action news extra on AIDS anxiety, you can meet the young woman who is bravely forging ahead despite the odds. We're all gonna die. You know, we're all none of us are immortal. With AIDS, you're more aware of it. She's a 22-year-old college graduate with a promising future until December 1989 when Kimberly Bergalis found out she was diagnosed with AIDS.

1:48:52 Suddenly, fate changed the future. It's frightening. You know, I was at a point in my life where I had all these different goals, and I was sending out my resume. I was thinking about, you know, marriage and eventually, you know, children. So it's a big setback. Kimberly believes she contracted the deadly disease during a 1987 tooth extraction. Her dentist, David Acker of Stewart, died of AIDS this past September. I thought about everything else and nothing else made sense. The only person that I've been exposed to that hadn't had AIDS was the dentist.

1:49:32 I remember Dr. Leonard Horowitz because I read one of his books. And it was, and I looked it up while we were listening, Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola. Yes, now I remember. Yes. It's been a while. Okay, so I don't know if you want to get into the Akers or not before this next clip. You got anything you want to say about him? Something you remember? You want to get into it? No, no. No. Should I be? Did you expect something from me? Yeah, I did. I mean, if you're familiar with his book, because this is right up your alley in these next couple of clips, 23. At that time, I was serving as the world's leading dental and medical catalog supply company's chief professional advisor.

1:50:14 And my background was in media, health education, health promotion, fear, because I worked on dental phobia reduction therapy programs, behavioral therapy programs to allay people's fear. Going to dentist, and I've been a dentist for 16 years and health education and media, persuasion, technologies. And here, the media was making so many people afraid to go see their dentist in the wake of this case. So I was asked, I was told I was given the job opportunity to develop patient educational literature to help allay people's fear of going into dental medical practices. So I started to research. The Centers for Disease Control's official investigation reports on the case. I first found them to be scientifically questionable.

1:50:55 I then found them to be scientifically bogus. And then later found them to be fraudulent. They've literally covered up, deleted the most incriminating evidence against the dentist. Who I have to conclude after three years of studying this case and publishing three scientific reports, literally having to go out of the United States to publish because the American Dental Association, American Medical Association, wanted to maintain a cover-up. Yeah. So it's been 30 years since I really honestly, well, a little bit less than, of course, but that's when I was earnestly, when these books were coming out, when I was really studying this stuff.

1:51:33 And it wasn't until another 10 years after that that, you know, I really things started to become clear. And it's been, for me, it's been total benign ignorance ever since. So let's just catch people up on what he's saying in the previous two clips. So what he's saying is he had no interest in looking in AIDS, which was called gay. Autoimmune deficiency, immunodeficiency disease. It was called gay immunodeficiency disease. It was greed. It was sounded like gay to me. No, that's what I'm saying. It was the acronym was greed. Yeah. So great. First of all, great rebranding on that because greed would have not flown over very well.

1:52:16 No good at all. Second of all, what he's saying is he was chasing the money. They were losing money because people didn't want to go to dentists because they were afraid, which that brings up another point. How I don't know how people can let somebody go look in their mouth in the middle of this thing we got going on, but this is not a COVID show. And it didn't stop. But he's saying as him started chasing the money and figuring out how to get people to start going to the dentist again, he started looking to this case with Akers. And he found out that the dentistry industry and the

1:52:55 FDA covered up everything to the point where he had to go out of the country to publish his book. So I just want to fill people, you know what I'm saying? Just because the two clips were segmented with the local report. So I wanted to fill people in on what's going on. the time. He didn't purposely pursue AIDS. No. He was not a digital hunter. He was trying to get people into dentist offices. Correct. Which I mean, which comes with his own natural apprehensions in the first place. But I digress. So we can go. Now we can go in. This, I think, is where you're going to be very interested. 24. And I wrote a book that was based on those three scientific reports called Deadly Innocence, my ninth book.

1:53:39 Wherein I have to conclude that the dentist, based on all the evidence, using the FBI's own behavioral science literature, how they themselves investigate and evaluate these types of cases, that this dentist, scientifically trained military dentist for much of his career, very intelligent dentist, believed that he was dying of a virus that the government had created. They covered that up. He believed that they had intentionally injected this virus during a 1978 experimental hepatitis B vaccine that was given to a lover of his that he had in 1985. And that's how he got infected. And he believed that this was genocide.

1:54:24 And he believed in what was called the World Health Organization Theory of AIDS. The videotape that Danny stated he saw, the Strecker Memorandum, was what Dr. David Acker believed. That the World Health Organization, the United States Public Health Service Centers for Disease Control, had something to do with the development of these types of viruses and the deployment of them through hepatitis B and other vaccines in Africa and North America. Oh man, you are opening up a deep rabbit hole that was pretty dusty. I'd had that one closed a long time, brother. A long time ago. I'm like, oh man, he's taking me back to the Strecker memorandum.

1:55:05 Nothing like a revisited rabbit hole. Damn you. Damn you, Mofax. So since we re-earthed this rabbit hole, let's go ahead and jump into the Stricker memorandum. Now, do we need to set it up about what it was? Or is that a well, let's just give a little setup. This is this guy that makes a case, Dr. Robert Strecker. He makes his case, which it was six parts. I found it on YouTube. I secured it on YouTube. Yes. For whatever that means, we'll get a content strike, I'm sure. No, what I'm saying is I secured it. I downloaded the actual video

1:55:49 for archives. But as you see in the title, it says disappeared. So obviously, this will keep getting taken down. But he makes the case that AIDS was created in a lab. Well, not created. AIDS was created in a lab and it got out somehow. He didn't say if it was intentional or if it was by accident, but he just makes the case that AIDS was created in lab. And I'm glad that this is not a COVID show. I'm glad to. AIDS. The most devastating biological catastrophe the world has ever known. This disease will kill more people this year than all other viral diseases combined.

1:56:28 According to Dr. Robert Strecker, AIDS is a man-made, genetically engineered virus that was either accidentally or deliberately introduced into the world's population. AIDS is not a homosexual disease. AIDS is not a venereal disease. AIDS did not originate from the green monkey. AIDS is not prevented by the use of condoms. And AIDS is not likely to ever be cured by a vaccine. I realize what you've just heard contradicts most of what you've been told about AIDS. In this program, Dr. Robert Strecker will present documented evidence that refutes the official stand taken by so-called AIDS experts, members of the research community, and the government.

1:57:14 And now, let's find out the truth about AIDS. Yeah, now we're cooking with gas. So, okay, so we got to back up a little bit and go back to what Dr. Horowitz is saying. He said he found out about this scenario about Akers, the dentist Akers, was giving people intentionally AIDS because his lover had gotten AIDS through a hepatitis vaccine. And out of anger, he started to infect people. And this memorandum supports what Akers believed.

1:57:54 So I'm just filling everybody in. I mean, it's a little disjointed, but I want to make sure everybody's caught up to speed on where we're at with this. Yep. All right. So we're going to go ahead and get to part two of the Stricker. streaker. I'm Dr. Robert Strucker, a practicing internist and gastro neurologist in Los Angeles. I have a special interest in pharmacology, pathology, and now AIDS. I became interested in the AIDS question several years ago in doing a health maintenance proposal, basically an insurance proposal for Security Pacific Bank, a bank here in California. More and more members of the medical and research community, such as Dr. Peter Duesberg, the University of California at Berkeley, Dr.

1:58:39 John Seale, a member of the Royal Society of Medicine of London, and Dr. Alan Cantwell, who has recently finished a third book on AIDS, this one on the origin of AIDS, are questioning the validity of the popular view about AIDS, which has failed to scientifically explain the disease. So I've decided it's time that someone tells you the truth about AIDS. So in this program, I will show you how the AIDS virus was actually predicted, requested, produced, deployed, and now threatens the very existence of mankind because it works. To understand why I believe that the AIDS virus came out of a laboratory rather than out of the jungles of Africa, you have to understand several important concepts, which I will address in the next few minutes.

1:59:24 These concepts actually include an understanding of viruses, bacteria, human cell lines, tissue culture, and manipulation of all of those things in the laboratory. It was really cool about this repeat or rinse-repeat cycle that if this were a COVID show, what's really cool about it, which is not. No, of course not. So in hearing all of this, now we need to go back and let's remember what Reverend Wright said about goddamn America, giving people AIDS. He's going off of these people's facts.

2:00:07 And now we got to bring it back into why it was a psyop. And we say, oh, the role that PSYOP plays on so-called black Americans, because we were hearing this in rap songs, we were hearing this in church. We were hearing this in barbershop. Now I know what I was going to say, and it leads you into this point. So we have, you know, this grainy YouTube video, which has been disappeared multiple times, as pretty much one of the last pieces of evidence. You can go out and you can go get the, you can read the Streker report, but nothing quite as powerful as seeing him at the Blackboard, you know, and explaining what's going on.

2:00:50 What is happening today with, you know, now we have all of these different avenues, all of this media, all of these things, like even Reverend Wright, there's only really one or two little pieces. So, you know, while the cycle is rinsing, repeating, we have become so much more communicative amongst ourselves and have figuring stuff out over here. And I think that's the fundamental flaw of what I'm going to jump to the end. Of course, I totally believe that this is all the same thing. I just stuffed that away into a deep dark closet until you opened the door. Thank you very much. Right, because the door had closed on your psyop. That's right.

2:01:32 But not for you. Exactly. And my side, this thing is still brewing. It's like, hold on, AIDS is still killing people. I mean, like you heard the guy came out 14 years later and said he had AIDS. I forget his name. Bobby Porter. I think got his name. Billy Porter. Billy Porter. Yeah. You hear him come out. This thing is still fresh and it's unresolved. And I want to say one thing because why people are like, well, who is Reverend Wright? Reverend Wright is a healthcare professional in the military that cared for, I think, Lyndon Baines Johnson.

2:02:13 Yeah, yeah. People don't know that. They don't know that. Yeah, he's not just some, I mean, when you hear Reverend, they might think Reverend Jesse Jackson or Al Shaptan. No, we're talking about somebody that worked for the government that had allegiance to the government. Well, like all Reverends do. Eventually, but I'm just saying he was loyal enough to care for our American president. They actually have pictures of them together. So this is not some kind of fly-by-night goddess throwing around these allegations. So I just want to make that clear. But this is where his teachings is coming from. But the psyop is how now it's like, oh, no, no, AIDS is a square deal.

2:02:59 And we've seen. this. I brought this up before, but I'm saying not to belabor the point, but we saw this with OJ. It was very clear when OJ was found innocent. A lot of black people either thought he was innocent or went along with that. He was innocent. You know, you didn't question it. It's like, sure. Right. So it was the same thing with AIDS. It was like, no, AIDS, man-made. You know, the government gave us AIDS. I think even Kyoto has a line that alludes to that. Oh, all the graces slipped it in. Yeah. All of them. So I'm just saying. But I'm sorry to come back to that. Go ahead. So it's been in hip-hop. That is the main point here.

2:03:40 Is now it's open to everybody. It's not necessarily just hip-hop. Hip-hop didn't have the distribution it has today, but it was definitely the CNN. One of the most popular songs in, I want to say, RB hip-hop history, Waterfalls. The first verse is about an aged patient, aged patient. Little Precious. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, we're talking about sold tens of millions of albums. That's like one. I mean, I wonder how many Grammys that song won. I mean, it's how ingrained it was in the culture. So when you hear somebody with the reach and, you know, the respectability of a Reverend Reince preaching that in his church, you can see how this thing got set in.

2:04:26 But now it's now we can go, like I said, we can go back. Thank God archive has saved these tapes, uploaded these tapes, so we can revisit. And we can, if you look backwards, you can oftentimes see the future. With that said, where are we at? 27. Yes, we are. In essence, I have to conclude at the end of that case that the dentist most plausibly was identical to an organized serial killer. He made a painted classic organized serial killer personality. You know, like the Unibomber, these people, they all, according to the FBI, kill for the sake of power, control, and revenge.

2:05:02 Revenge being the major theme. And the principal issue, his principal vendor that was screaming loud and clear in the legal testimonies, it was against the federal government. In essence, I concluded that he created a crime. He did what all organized serial killers love to do. They manipulate the authorities in Big Catch 22s. The Unabomber, he publishes his manifesto in the New York Times, Washington Boast. He says, here's what I believe. You try to get me. David Acker, the Florida dentist, was virtually identical to this. In essence, he created a crime, a mystery that could not be solved without implicating the government. Because if they told the truth, if they said he was an organized serial killer, then the whole world would want to know motive.

2:05:43 And the motive was screaming loud and clear in the legal testimony, which they buried. So there was one document, however, that came along with that videotape called the Strecker Memorandum that Strecker sent to David Acker. And it was the most horrifying document I had ever seen. It was a 1970 Department of Defense appropriations request for $10 million for a five-year study to develop immune system ravaging microorganisms for germ warfare. Oh, man, what does that sound like? Happy, this is not a COVID show. Gain of function research, anybody? He

2:06:28 was an equivalent to the serial, I mean, to the Unibomber to say, I'm going to do some killings. That way, if you investigate it, you got to investigate the whole story. Right. He wasn't just some crazy guy in Florida or allegedly some crazy guy in Florida was in as he was painting in the news. The interesting part is, in that whole news segment that I played, I just clipped it. But I mean, it was like a three-part series. His name was never mentioned like that. He was never a part of the story. Huh. Who he was, nothing. It was just like, yeah, this guy, this dentist.

2:07:07 And they just kind of glossed over it. I mean, this guy was a military dentist. He was involved in his community, big-time golf guy, I think, in Dart, down in Florida. You know, pillar of the community. And then he just goes on this quiet rampage of infecting patients and nobody asks why. Damn, man. By the way, I put the waterfall lyrics into the show notes. Not everybody might have known that about the lyrics. Yeah. The first verse is about aged patients, aged patient. Yeah. So now we got to go back and listen to Fauci. And this is Dr. Fauci. This is the blurb.

2:07:48 Dr. Fauci, director of National Institute of Allergies and Infections, Infectious Disease at the National Institute. Institute of Health, the NIH, talks about the prospect of bioterrorism and the safety and ethics of publishing potentially dangerous scientific information in the interconnected world. So, this is he's speaking to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and he's talking about anthrax. Bioterror is, there's always the potential for bioterror. And we have a major biodefense research and development effort that spans agencies from the NIH to do the basic research to be able to develop better vaccines, how you counter engineered

2:08:34 microbes, how you approach drug-resistant engineered microbes. The CDC has surveillance mechanisms to determine if there's new microbes or anything out there in society particularly toxic that could be used in a bioterror situation. The Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, we do all of that. Having said that, the worst bioterrorist is nature itself. Nature is very good at evolving microbes to create problems, much smarter than any terrorist. So, what we've tried to do over the years is to use the expertise, the resources to allow us to respond better to a deliberate affront or attack on us with a microbe of any type engineered or what have you, to use that knowledge to

2:09:29 better prepare us for what we know will happen. We don't know whether we will ever have an attack on us in the United States or elsewhere using biological weapons. We absolutely know that we will have the evolution of a new disease naturally occurring that will impact society. And the reason is because history has told us that that will happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm familiar with this. I'm familiar with this piece of his. Yeah, so I just despise that this guy is even talking about bioterrorism. He should not be a part of this, but he is.

2:10:11 But what he's saying is we got to stay out in front of nature, which is justification for because nature's going to kill us. Well, let's create, let's let's create what nature can create before nature. And that goes back to his original clip that says we have to be better than nature. Yep. Let's be better than nature. How do you do that? By creating what it will create before it creates it so we can come up with the resolution. And that is the... So I'm trying to humanize Fauci here in this point. Oh, I have a very hard time here. Well, you know, what I'm saying is if he's saying, if he's acting in good faith, we're trying to beat nature to the punch so we know how to counter it, that could be a way of humanizing him.

2:10:57 But it's irresponsible. It's very irresponsible, but it could be couched. Like I said, the role to hell is paid in good intentions. So I'm sorry, he's part of the 1%. He's a lizard. Well, maybe that's why he feels comfortable around working around these things. Exactly. I won't catch it. I'm mask. I'm going in the lab and I'm saying, nothing on. Watch me. Hell my beer. So let's get to the part two of what could probably go wrong with bioterrorism. I can't predict to you when the next one will be. Hopefully, it won't be for a very, very long time, but it will happen. There's no doubt it will happen.

2:11:40 So instead of looking at it in two separate silos of biodefense for biological threats that are deliberate and countermeasures for naturally occurring, he should essentially pool the science so that you could do both. Well, I think that where we are right now in science and molecular biology and particularly molecular virology and our ability to sequence and recombine and create various organisms in some respect is that the best way to prevent a nefarious act is to develop a culture of responsibility among scientists.

2:12:25 You have to have some restrictions in the sense of you don't do work that could actually hurt people in the sense of if you have a laboratory accident, you have to have the right containment. Once you start being too restrictive, you then impede creativity for so many. of the good things that could come out of the same type of work. So, if you develop a culture of responsibility, the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of work on that area will be done for the betterment of mankind. There are always going to be the bad guys around somewhere, someplace.

2:13:08 He would hope that they don't have the opportunity to do something that is going to ultimately hurt mankind. When I say that, I get back to what I mentioned just a moment ago: that the chances of nature creating something really bad is much better than we mere mortal humans doing it. Wow, in short, the only way to stop a bad guy with a virus is a good guy with a virus. Wow, that's a mind-bender. That's how he looks. That's why, and the reason why I try to humanize anybody: one, give everybody the benefit of the doubt till you have exact proof.

2:13:52 But the other thing is, if we're trying to reach people that may believe he's acting in good faith, you have to communicate on their level and say, Hey, look, he understand he might was trying to get out in front of nature. I get it, but that didn't stop the fact that it they created AIDS and it escaped. You see what I'm saying? Like, I mean, two things can be true. What we always talk about. So, if we want to be able to do that, both can be true. Oh, absolutely. We want to reach those people that we're trying to communicate with and not get siloed. We have to see it the way they see it, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Okay, I can see how you can see that he was acting in good faith.

2:14:33 That still doesn't absolve him from the fact that when you start playing around and playing God, basically, what you're doing, it can have significant ramifications. Or if you, and I think that this is probably the case with Bill Gates and Fauci, likely. There's a new book out, which I've been reading by the Brigands. I think it's Peter and Ginger Brigands told COVID-19 and Global Predators. We are the prey. And you can totally humanize Fauci because he's hung up on.

2:15:14 He's not necessarily the person who wants to kill everybody. He could be a lizard. I'm not ruining that. No, but he could be the lizard that, you know, there's different kinds of lizards, too. I'm sure they got a hierarchy. But my point is that, you know, this could be so big. This could be, it's what I've always felt. This is a trail that just leads through all these things. And, you know, we're not really going to do anything with Zika or with Ebola, but I totally, I'm so on board with this with this pathway. It's repeating. The whole thing repeats. We're going to see even more repeating, but first, we got to continue to thank the producers that allow us to have these conversations.

2:21:35 And remember, it's not just the bi-weekly podcast, but also the lost tapes. And go to mofax.com to find out everything you need to know. Follow us on the socials. And for direct support, go to mofundme.com. Thanks again. All right. So now we got to get into how they try to handle the disinformation, the disinformation, quote-unquote, different disinformation with their normal tactic. When you hear the term fake news, you probably think about how it's used often today by President Trump.

2:22:12 But it's actually an old term used by the Soviet Union as a reference to disinformation campaigns that the Soviets and now the Russians have long used to destabilize the West. It worked before, and it's working again now. That is the tale told by Operation Infection, Russian Disinformation from Cold War to Kanye, a riveting three-part series released by the New York Times' Adam Westbrook and Adam Ellick, who joins me in the studio now. Adam, great to see you. Thanks for. for being here. Thanks for having me. So there's a lot of talk about Russian disinformation, of course, in 2016, even 2018, but this started long before, as your film demonstrates.

2:22:50 And I want to show a clip from the film that starts with two KGB defectors who said disinformation had one goal. To change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country. Within the KGB is a department that specializes in planting false stories and forged documents. We know it was run from Department A, right at the top of the KGB, and it had a multi-million dollar budget.

2:23:31 At least 15,000 people in the Soviet Union and outside of the Soviet Union are involved in that kind of actions on regular and daily basis. 15,000 people creating disinformation stories as seemingly crazy as the U.S. created AIDS. Oh, yeah. Okay. Russians. Got it. Yeah, the Russians. Even with AIDS, it was the Russians, man. Those guys are so good. Can I interest you? It's a little bit of Operation Infection. I'd love some Operation Infection. And it's with a K, by the way. With a K. Of course with a K.

2:24:10 Okay. Yes. 32. Okay, so to start, let's go back to July 1983 and all the way over here, New Delhi, India. This is when a remarkable story appears in a newspaper called The Patriots. It claims the HIV virus was secretly created by U.S. government scientists as a weapon to kill African Americans and gay people. It even names a facility, Fort Dietrich in Maryland, where the virus was supposed to have been concocted. It's a crazy allegation printed in a small newspaper. No big deal, right? But fast forward just a couple of years and look what's happening. The story is spreading all over Africa.

2:24:54 A scientific report's even published by two East German biologists who say they can prove AIDS is made in the USA. All these articles are from just a few months at the end of 1986. And then somehow, it ends up here. A Soviet military publication claims the virus that causes AIDS leaked from a U.S. Army laboratory conducting experiments in biological warfare. That's Dan Rather reading a fake news story to millions of unlocking Americans on national TV. Don't be too hard on Dan. This was one of the greatest cons ever carried out on a global scale.

2:25:34 And we're going to show you how it was pulled off. Just before we continue, I just want to confirm something you said earlier. That if anyone with any so-called black person or the majority of so-called black people, if they're being honest when asked, you know, without microphones or cameras, AIDS, they would say, oh, yeah, everyone knows that was created in a lab to kill black people. Well, they would say something fishy was going on. I don't know if they would go to that extent, but they would say, eh. Right. It looks that way. And they might not be as adamant as you hear, but even this, even a non-conspiratorial person that watches the news every day.

2:26:19 Yeah. This comes on Dan Rather. My dad watched Dan Rather every night. Right after the local news and right before Will of Fortune. You know what I'm saying? So if he hears that, what is wrong with you, black people? The communists are continuously giving you false information. That's how it seems, right? So what is wrong with you? But hold on, hold on. Let's look at the other way, though. Well, maybe the Soviets recognize a weakness that they can exploit. Exploit. It's not that the weakness doesn't, the fissure doesn't exist and they're manufacturing it. It's that they realize that it's a fissure there, like we talked about back in with the communism coming through in the South with how sharecropping was going on.

2:27:02 Well, that, and of course, fast forward to Marxism and BLM. I mean, it's a lot in between. I mean, even it's a lot. If you watch the show, The Americans, of course. They had a storyline in there where the Russians was working with a revolution, black Americans, revolutionary black Americans back in the early 80s, late 70s. So, I mean, this is a running theme. Like I said, that doesn't say that the fissure doesn't exist and they're manufacturing it. It could be that they just realized that. that's a weak point. Right. So, I'm gonna just so Dan Rather, he's he's pushing this story.

2:27:40 Good old Dan. KGB let the story go quiet for a couple of years after India, but with AIDS still making scary headlines in 85, they revived it, this time in a prominent Moscow newspaper. And the source for this story, you guessed it. It's brilliant, really. They've repeated the story but concealed their hand, distancing themselves from the lie they started. So, we're now into 1986, and the KGB wants to add gravitas to this lie. So, they look around for a scientist, a human face, someone who could back up the lie with data. And no joke, this is the dude they found. This is Dr. Jacob Segal.

2:28:23 Remember, I said the reports had two authors? Well, here comes the co-author now. It's his wife, Nilly. Believe it or not, these two wrote that report that claimed to have evidence AIDS was created in a US government lab. This scientific gobbled. And, you know, you read this stuff and who can understand it, but it purports to be proof. But the thing is, it worked. The KGB made sure the Segal report was read by journalists all over Africa, and they kept on pushing it until it went, well, viral. It appeared in 200 reports in 80 countries. Even the Daily Express in London runs with it. And finally, on March 30th, 1987, the KGB hits the jackpot. A Soviet military publication.

2:29:12 But you brought up a great point last year that, I mean, last show about the amplification of news. And that's kind of what we're doing now is when we just deconstruct it. It's kind of like the same thing that they're using there, right? They put it in, but we're in reverse. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Starting in a little paper and it works its way up to the mainstream. Now in reverse, we've reverse engineered it that when it comes from the mainstream, we reverse engineer it and it disseminates out through smaller outlets like ours. Well, also, we are able to use collective memory, and that collective memory is YouTube.

2:29:52 That collective memory is, for better or for worse, Google. But, you know, there's a lot of infrastructure, a lot of infrastructure, a lot of data being created that we're now starting to learn how to find and not necessarily have to go through all the beaten paths that have been laid out before us. So yeah. And they're in a catch-22 because they can't sanitize their platforms because that'll create a competitor. So it's like, let's cover it with all this asinine, mind-numbing material. It's better to do that. It's better to just throw all kinds of, throw everything out and call everything a conspiracy.

2:30:33 Yeah. Confuse everybody because that's the hard part. You know, I know that I know there are people who are going to email me and say, you are crazy, Curry. And here's what they'll say. AIDS doesn't exist, Curry. Really? That's what they're going to say. Not that I said that verbatim that way, but yeah, I have big doubts about all of this. And I'm not saying that because something's killing like the same approach that I took with COVID. Something's killing these people. You see what I'm saying? I mean, we had that happen before. Something's killing them. Now, is it purported as they're saying? Well, something's killing people. Yes. Yeah. Okay, I'm not a doctor, so this is only my opinion.

2:31:16 But if you look at truly what AIDS is, autoimmunodeficiency syndrome. But this can be caused by many, many things. Right. You just knock everything in the... I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I completely understand. What really was killing people, Mo? What's really killing people is sugary drinks, crap food, processed food, bull crap life, no sunlight, unhappiness, SSRIs, Adderall, heroin, Oxy. It's amazing so many people are still living. They haven't been able to kill us with this. Damn it, give them a virus. And it's like, well, the sexual path doesn't work. We got to go. We got to go respiratory. We got to go airborne.

2:32:00 Yes. Can't even get them. All they do is they're like bunnies. We have to, they can't stop them with this. They won't stop. So it's clear what their goal is. Kill us, to kill us. I'm glad we agree. 99% got to go, which leaves 1% of lizards of lizards. It's amazing how that math works out. I'm just, y'all do the math. Where we stop at 33? Yeah, no, we're already at 35, last one. Okay, let's get. Well, let's go ahead and finish up. this set. This campaign had a KGB code name. They called it Operation Infection.

2:32:51 Well, I'm sorry. Something happened with that clip. It went garbily glue. Oh, no. Something happened on your end. No, no, it's not a clip. Yeah, it sounded good here. Okay, my fault. Yeah, no worries. No worries. We'll hit it again. This campaign had a KGB code name. They called it Operation Infection. Well, that's a life half a lifetime ago.

2:33:31 This was handed out at a demonstration. I was so angry that they accused the United States of creating the AIDS virus because I knew how effective that was going to be as a tool against us. And it angered me. Operation Infection, one of the most audacious and successful fake news stories ever created. And for America, the impact was toxic. Foreign governments actually believed that the U.S. was creating this biological warfare agent. For them to think that damages their view of the United States, not only as a culture, but it taints all of our policies.

2:34:16 It's in the backs of their minds every time they discuss anything with us. Now, with so much at stake, you might be wondering what the U.S. response to all this was. Well, we're watching it. Kathleen and Todd were both part of something called the Active Measures Working Group. Nicknamed Truth Squads, it was a team that tracked and tried to expose Soviet disinformation. Truth Squads. That's the genesis of fact checkers. That's right. Truth Squad. Oh, man. That's good.

2:34:55 That's good. And as she said, when you're dealing with people, it's going to be stuck in the back of their head. So now you see what I was saying at the top of the show. When you come to me and talk to me about medical and trust this and trust that, it's like, hey, what about AIDS? There was. You know, I saw this. Okay. I'm just scrolling through something here for a second. Someone sent me a link that was that here we go. Oh, this is going to trip you out. Okay. This is this is we're doing it live, everybody.

2:35:38 Okay. This is a response from the insect group. Then it was a report written in August 2021 to refute. The report examines a newly discovered campaign aimed at discrediting the Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. And so this was commissioned by, of course, Pfizer to go out and it's a professional report. But the true title of this report is Operation Secondary Infection with a K targets Pfizer vaccine.

2:36:21 October 2020, 2021. Secondary infection. Secondary infection with a K, Operation Secondary Infection. Holy crap. Do you realize how big this is? Because the original Operation Infection was the cover. I'll just call it what it is. The cover for the AIDS debacle. Yep. And now they're using Operation Second Infection with a K. Oh my god. And then you had this piece come out from the New York Times

2:37:02 to refresh you on what the first Operation Infection was. So when the second one hits, you've already been seated. That was a rare No Agenda MoFax flow over, if I ever saw it. That was great. That was pretty sexy. That was good. I'm just sitting back like that. We're doing that shit live, man. We're pulling it. Wow. Wow. Yeah. All right. I got to compose myself. It's in the show notes so people can go take a look at it for themselves. I didn't, but I always try to make the point. If you look backwards, you can see the future. They do it to us first. I hope people understand that. And it's what this does is it

2:37:47 calls this is where distrust and systematic racism and all this stuff comes in. It's not one person and one thing. It's this psyop that we're blanketed with. And it's like, we don't forget. We do not forget. Now, some people go into formation. Yes, mass formation. Yeah, the mass formation to get along, go along to get along. You know, they're not immune to the mind control. But if you lived this, you knew every time before a sexual encounter, AIDS popped into your head. Yep. Now you know every single time you breathe or you see a person without a mask.

2:38:30 Exactly. Oh, bam! In your head. It's like asking somebody to have sex without a condom. Like, are you crazy? Yeah. Sex without a condom, which, if you think about it, condoms depopulation. Hello. I mean, hello. How many babies were not born due to condoms? It's a win-win. If you don't use economy, you die of AIDS. If you use economy, there's no babies. Yay. Yeah. So now that's going into national psyop. I have to bring people to the domestic psyop and the original super spreader. So we're going to start here. We got to go back to a clip. Well, this is not a clip. This is a piece I pulled a clip from, but this is another segment of it. And this is In Search of Good Pussy by Don Spears.

2:39:16 Oprah Winfrey, and all these women have different programs to help enable black females. But who's trying to help black males? And I mean, right now, there's 6.6 million people in jail. Most of those people are black males. Nobody is really doing anything for them. The Essence Music Festival was in New Orleans, the 4th of July weekend. Tom Jarna said it looked like 60 women for every one man. I was there. That's what it looked like. And it was insane to see that many women and no men.

2:39:55 So where were the men? There was a clear signal being sent because men are like a shark with blood in the water. If there are women there, the men are going to be there. But for some reason, the women were there, but the men were not. And even the women who were there, they pulled out their money, her credit cards, bought what they wanted, smiled with their girlfriends, and went on about their business. I know of neighborhoods now where you have most of the people on houses on the block are black females. No men. They have their own houses, their own credit cards, their own BMWs.

2:40:36 The only thing they need a man for is sex. And many of them have boy toys. They can pick up the phone, do it to Terry McMillan, you know, get a groove back on, and then send him about his way. And there's still no connection. I know you lost. I know that was a hard write. No, I'm with you. I mean, this is not news to me because of our work together, but yeah, blay it on me. Stella got how Stella got her groove back. So that was about a woman going out to Jamaica and she gets with a boy toy, a young boy toy, and they fall happy in love.

2:41:14 Well, that was based off of Terry McMillan's real life. But in that, how it plays out, it comes to find out that her, who she got her groove back with, happens to be a gay man, and that birth the term down low, brother, which was the original super spreader. Oh, whoa! That's me doing the sound effects. So, how this plays out. Stop. Stop. White man catching up slow. So on the down low is a derivative of all that? Yes. Little do they know.

2:41:58 Down low, and explain for people what down low is. That's a heterosexual, no, it's a gay man or a bisexual man living undercover dating women and with little to her knowledge that he's gay, which that's how you explain the numbers of gay men being high for AIDS, black women being high for AIDS, but not. the heterosexual man. What it did was it caused a majority, which we haven't conquered yet. And was that additional? And was download boy. Is that what you said? Download boy? Download brother. Oh, download brother. Sorry. Undercover brothers. Didn't mean to bring the boy word in. Oh, no. I got what you're saying.

2:42:38 But so that was the term super spreader actually used in connection with a download brother, right? Because that's how it jumped from the homosexual community into the heterosexual community. Wow. You following me? Yeah, I'm with you. Of course. So, I mean, I'm just, I'm just making, I mean, it was a hard write. So I want to make sure everybody else is following along too. So they did this ruse, I think, of her going through this humiliation ritual with her being Terry McMillan on Oprah's show. They bring this clearly gay man, which I say that loosely. You know what I'm saying? Because you can have effeminate men, which are heterosexual.

2:43:21 But made for TV gay man. Right. They bring him out here. She goes through this humiliation ritual. And what it does is start to embed this belief that, see, because if you're openly gay, you're not a problem. You see what I'm saying? So that ruled out offending gay men. Oh, this was a attack on all black men. No, not all black men, because if you're gay, you're good. Because you're obviously. No, no, I mean, if you're out, but if you're not out, then you're automatically considered to be a possible super spreader. You're a super spreader. Yes. Oh, that's evil. Which to this day, you hear people say, oh, he's an undercover brother.

2:44:01 Oh, he, because that's kind of the worst of both worlds. Because one, you're not living in your truth, and then you're bringing over the high potential. Because I say, in some southern states across America, one out of every two gay men have HIV A's. And I'm lumping those together, but for sake of saying it, you know. So yeah, that's how it jumped. That's that's the explanation for the jump from the gay community to the black woman community. So now we're going to get into 37 and watch this ruse play out.

2:44:37 When I honored 25 remarkable women who paved the way for me and countless others at my Legends Ball back in 2005, I asked Terry to be there because she too is a young legend. I've looked up to her as a mentor, sister friend, and respected her work and continue to respect her work. And I was really surprised that she was in this situation, actually. Did you feel obviously betrayed? Yes. Yeah. It is betrayal. Yeah. And deception. Yeah. Yes. Do you feel like you missed signs that were there?

2:45:22 No, because I'd never been betrayed this way before. I'd never been with a man that I knew was cheating, period. Do you think he was he cheating? Because he told you this. He was cheating. You think he's going to tell the truth? I don't know. They didn't lie about that. But you said that he said at the time that he had never acted on it. But you didn't believe that, obviously. Okay, I said. That's like saying you're an alcoholic and you haven't had a drink. Uh-huh. What does he do? He had an epiphany in his sleep. Yeah. Now, this is the thing about this show. This is the thing. I've known Terry McMillan through her work and her art and her

2:46:04 talent and her books. And I was surprised that she, number one, wanted to come on TV and talk about this. You were surprised, huh? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. Gee. And just for people that don't may not know, Stella got her groove back. She also pinned Waiting to Exhale, which is a meme factory. The car, the light, the woman lighting a cigarette and setting the car on fire and walking away. This extra to all our memories. This is the author of that book, which it also has a

2:46:43 character in there that I forget her name. She always plays Airbode and Mama in black movies, but she's married to a gay man, but she had a child by a gay man, and he goes off and leaves her with an adult son. Wow. And there's Oprah again, you know. Oprah bringing it to the masses. I told you it's domestic rollout. How that was international side art rollout. This was the domestic rollout here. The original super spreader. let's go ahead and get in the 38. Okay, Jonathan, come on out. Let us meet you.

2:47:23 I was even more surprised that Jonathan wanted to come on TV and talk about it. This is your chance to say to the world, were you lying to Terry about your sexuality all those six years? No, I wasn't lying about my sexuality. You were not lying. I wasn't. First of all, it's pretty apparent to me and I think a lot of other people when they see Jonathan that, you know, something else was going on there. But I think that somewhere inside herself, if she were absolutely honest,

2:48:03 she knew something was off. Even if she couldn't say that he's gay, she knew something wasn't right. Because as we're going to speak about in future lessons here, you always get that little feeling. I call it a whisper. And the whisper is exactly that. It feels like something's off. And then you allow yourself to tell yourself that it's something else or that it isn't what you actually really think it is. You don't use your own instinct, your own intuition, and allow yourself to be put in a position that you later have to suffer the consequences.

2:48:45 And then get angry. This goes back to prove your point, which you were saying before. Imagine her saying that about a white gay person or a lesbian. Like, oh, you know, they look like they were gay. You know, something about them. Something's not right. Something's off. Imagine her saying that about anybody else. Other than a black man. It would be a scandal. I mean, a scandal. But for a black man, oh, yeah, he looked like he was gay. You could tell. It's a whisper. Yeah. And like I said, this played out in the early, the mid-90s. And this, the down low,

2:49:31 it's accepted into the vernacular. Oh, massively. It's incredibly interesting. I do know millennial, like, yeah, millennial women, 25, 26, who really hang out with a lot of gay guys too. Because they don't like the masculinity. See, that's how far it's gone now. Because they don't like masculinity. I don't like it. And I think down low, bro, I think is still a real thing. And it jumped, like I said, it's the first attack mechanism of anybody, you know, oh, you're gay. Are you gay? He's gay. And it's a fascinating phenomenon

2:50:16 that somebody can call a black man gay as an attack, but also say they stand to defend a black man's sexuality. Oh, it's we're going to address that in another show. It's totally messed up. But it's weird that, you know, at the same time, that could be an attack to say that. And then, and then, but at the same time, you say you stand with the, you know, the LGBT community. Isn't that crazy? It is very crazy. Let's go and continue on. The reason why I said it's the ruse, we were here in the next two clips. Listen, this is the part one. Okay, now there's another part of this story that my producers told me.

2:50:56 Now, while they were at your house, Terry, the other day, a huge bouquet of flowers arrived. That's what I was told by the producer who was there. And they were from Jonathan, correct? Who had spent the night, correct? He had stayed over, but he didn't spend the night. He's gay. Laughter. Okay. Nothing happened, basically. Nothing happened. But I heard there was some cuddling and bathing and stuff going on. That's what I heard. You want to know what? What? We have a really big bathtub. I was on my side and she was on her side.

2:51:37 The thing is this is that y'all doesn't see me with my clothes off for 10 years. Yeah, okay. And I know he doesn't have a tub where he is. Yeah. And it was sort of like closure. It's not like we're rekindling what we lost. It's never going to happen again. It was just kind of closure, as she said. Closure. Closure. So are you all now? Are you all now friends? Yeah. I want to be like friends. Yeah, we're getting there. But yeah, exactly. It's going to be weird. It's not going to be weird. We're just taking our time. Taking your time to do what happened? The thing is. is, what? To kind of like what? To kind of like reacquaint ourselves with my new lifestyle and, you know, for her exact and from me for who I am, basically.

2:52:21 And that was laughter back then, too. Interesting. Right. Oh, sorry. Oh, it's a key key. No, they're kiki in it up. Like, and when he says he's gay, could you imagine the audience going off and laughing or stuff? No. But at the same time, she knew what he was, but she, it was, it was a boy toy. As uh, Non Spears laid out. It's like, hey, I'll pay you. You can go out and do your thing kind of thing. Um, as long as you take care of me. It's called sexual survivor. We talked about this a long time ago. Uh, and it goes both ways. You have heterosexual men that participate in homosexual activities to survive, and then you have homosexual men that participate in heterosexual activities to survive.

2:53:08 Yep. So that's that's what's going, like I said, but this I don't want to understand. There's something about Oprah that I've always thought was off. No, I can't quite put my finger on it. Something's not right. Something's not right about her. It's that rabbit hole goes so deep. I don't have a rope long enough to fully go down. But you got to break her off in pieces. Like, cause her thumb is on the pulse. You're right. All of this. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The age rollout, Magic Johnson, which we didn't talk about here because that's a whole nother show. Yeah, a whole nother part of it.

2:53:49 But that's why they need to download brother because they couldn't say, see, Magic didn't bring it home to cookie. Right. So they had to have an explanation of how it's jumping the you know the barrier if everybody's straight. What was everybody's explanation again? What's the explanation again for Magic? No, well, what that well, you know, it's it's she got lucky, basically. But they stay married. Yeah. Like I said, that's all you don't get that. No, another show. Another show. Yeah, I got you. A whole nother show. So let's go ahead and wrap it up with Terry McMillan and her ex-husband. I've already accepted you for who you are, Jonathan. But on a different level. Yeah, but you're not going to be, we're not going to be kicking it. I know that we're not.

2:54:35 I don't want to kick it with you. I don't. Don't take it. I'm not taking it the wrong way. I'm not. Okay. You seem frustrated. Are you? The thing is, I'm telling my side, and she's just frustrated the way I'm bringing, telling everybody my side. It's a two-way thing, you know? That's what I'm saying. She's always dominated the conversations with us, right? Do you feel that you were just repressing your homosexuality? I was. Were you living a lie? Were you living a lie? But you know why? And let me just say this. Think before you answer this question. Right. Because there are a lot of young boys and girls who are watching you right now who need the truth, who need just the truth.

2:55:19 And every time somebody tells the truth, you free other people to also be truthful. And so there's no reason at this point to pretend anything. So the fact that you're sitting here and the fact that you all now are on your way to whatever it is y'all on your way to, you know, at least for every other gay guy out there who's repressing his feelings and, you know, at least honor who you are now. Honor that. I am honored, Terry. Give me credit. I'm honored on that. Thank you. I'm honoring my lifestyle. Okay. It's not hard letting everybody know about your sexuality, especially being gay. I lived the lifestyle of a heterosexual with her. I loved her. Uh-huh.

2:56:01 Unconditionally up until the point of two years at the, I mean, two years before it ended. Thank you. And that's the rollout of the original super spreader right there. Wow. Okay. And it still goes on to this day. It still goes at that term. Super spreader. Super spreader. I mean, no, download. That's the equivalent. Like, that's the equivalent to super spread. That's how that virus got into the heterosexual woman, black woman pool. Now, it's not exclusively to black, but this is. Right. So he's a patient zero of

2:56:43 the crossover. Yes. Wow. And like I said, but it's only heterosexual men. Because if you're openly gay, a whole nother, it's a whole nother problem. No problem. It's no problem. That might be a problem. Because on the hierarchy, they outrank black women. Heterosexual women. So, and final clip is: remember, Oprah says there's whispers. Yes, there's always something. A lot of women have close friends. Very few have friends as close as yours. Describe that friendship to me. Okay.

2:57:38 She is the mother I never had. She is the sister everybody would want. She is the friend that everybody deserves. I don't know a better person. I don't know a better person. Why is it making you cry? Shoot. Wasn't going to cry here. It's making me cry because I'm thinking about

2:58:20 how much I probably have never told her that. Tissue, please. I now need tissue. I've never told her that. So, when those to me dumb rumors come up, then you are gay. Are gay. What do you say? Well, I have said we are not gay enough times. I'm not lesbian. I'm not even kind of lesbian. And the reason why it irritates me is because it means that somebody must think I'm lying. That's number one. Number two, why would you want to hide it?

2:59:02 That is not the way I run my life. Where would she be on the hierarchy if she was lesbian and she came out? Oh, she would be, well, I don't know to go this long after it was okay to come out. Hmm, that's a tough one. But she would be oh, she would be over a gay man because she has two checks. No, I'm saying being a woman and gay and black. Well, three checks. Three checks. It's a rare triple. Right. The only thing to top her is maybe a trans black man. Or if Oprah decided to become a man. Oh, if she did that,

2:59:43 she'd be at the pinnacle of, but to put the cherry on all this to bring the circle full close. Reverend Wright's church allegedly was also set up to pair off people that were interested in same sex with opposite sex. Oh, really? Yes. That's why Obama was allegedly going to that church. Right. Oh, man. You mean Barry? Just to bring, excuse me, Barry. Barry, Barry, Barry O. So I just bring that full circle. But that's, that's, man. My, that's, this is not a COVID show. Just to remind you. It's not, but it's also, it's not a show.

3:00:28 This show doesn't really end here now, does it? No, it does not. It cannot end here because there is so much that you've uncovered. I really appreciate the helping me understand how this, how AIDS still, the psyop still lives in the minds. And of course, how that affects everything that's happening right now and how pathetic all these efforts are that, you know, the media efforts to try and, you know, remove vaccine hesitancy. This is not hesitancy. This is a baked in like valid fear. And recent, like you said, with Tuskegee, that was decades ago. Right.

3:01:09 I mean, but Stella got a groove back. Everybody knows that's pretty recent, you know? Right. So this is something I lived through. I didn't live through Tuskegee. Right. I didn't live through Henrietta Lacks. I lived through this. And my peers lived through this. So just wanted to say that. So. Mo, thank you for this one. This is this. I'm real proud of this work, man. This is going to, this is good. This is real. This is something that goes far beyond anything I could have imagined me achieving in this podcast. People will want to listen to this. They'll want to share because it's kind of the trifecta and it sets you up for understanding a lot of the forces in this world.

3:01:48 And the lizard people. And the lizard people. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. And we will be back with you on the Lost Tape Tapes Switch. Wednesday. Mo will be there for that. Of course, go to MoFacts.com and episode number 70. Come up in the next show. Have a good one, Mo. Thank you so much, man. All right, see you next time, Adam. See y'all soon. All of you ladies out there, turn up your radio. Girls, I'm about to tell you something you may wanna know.

3:02:30 You know, things they're not always what they appear to be. And I don't want to happen to you what happened to me. Listen, there are no words that can describe what I felt inside when I found out the man I love loved another guy. We were at a party all to have a little fun.

3:03:14 But when I look around, my man was missing. I walked outside, I couldn't believe my eyes. He was in Bill's arms, breathing hard and French kissing. I was ready for Mary Susan, Helen, and Jane. When all of time, all the time it was Bill that was me and with my man.

3:03:53 Yeah, Bill has been to my house a thousand times. He and my man would go camping and fishing. Oh, I tell you, it never crossed my mind. Bill was a friend, and he was God uncle to my only son. Now it looks like Uncle Billy wants to be a stepmom. See, I was running for Mary.

3:04:33 I was ready. I was ready for damn how to compete with a man for another man. I asked my man, why didn't you tell me that you were gay when you knew you knew I'd build my world around you? And here's what he had to say. I knew I had those feelings and I didn't want it to be.

3:05:13 See, I thought about being with you. Girl, I thought it would change me. As tears came to my eyes, he says, I'm sorry.