Mike Hanson1995 Interviews Jack DeVault About The Waco Whitewash [iQO C65KQgA]

00:00 Hello folks, this is Jeff Davis with the legendary Jeff Davis Show from Central Texas USA and I love my Kansan archives. Peace out baby! Hello folks, this is Mike Hanson here on Mike Hanson archives on YouTube and here on my Facebook and we're here at the 25th anniversary of The memorial service here in Waco Texas. And we got Clive Doyle here Can you tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are on the 25th anniversary? Here It's uh It's alright everybody knows

00:49 It's kind of hard. My daughter just died, my daughter just died there. That's what I heard and we didn't put it out on the internet because we were asked not to this is first time people out here on my a lot of them don't know yet That was your first daughter died at Mount Carmel and this was another daughter. This is my oldest daughter, she's the youngest that died in the fire. Karen was coming down had a plane booked she was coming down for the memorial. Ended up dying in a head-on collision with drunk driver

01:45 People up in Pennsylvania saying that it was deliberate, it wasn't an accident. Tried to run a cop off the road first I guess the cop avoided it tried to run down another woman and she avoided it. Karen was third in line so they say she died instantly which is At least she didn't suffer too much. But seems like every year there's a few more that will go. Yeah, it's just not many left Clive I'm so sorry for all the stuff that has happened to y'all and hopefully it will get better but you always say its going to be better It'll get worse before it gets better Well once we're gone here maybe Well, KRLD

02:46 Called me this morning. Well, what do you think the government's learned in 25 years? I said nothing except don't have the press that filming everything There's Desi okay well we're getting ready to start what who do you got speaking this year Phil Arnold James Tabor, I believe Catherine Wissinger Mary Lindblom wants to say a little bit. Oh good, I can't wait to see her. It's uh there's a lot of people all right well we're getting started here folks i hope y'all can make it here for the 25th anniversary here and what's the address here if they can still make it? 701 Jefferson Waco Texas hope to see you here folks okay

03:34 I gotta get it. Okay for hi Sheila 25th anniversary of what happened how are you? Right here tell them tell them to come on down they still got time, it's live yeah okay and what do you think about the 25th anniversary real quick before we go in? Sorry that is so 25 years I'm sorry that it's still taking so long we want to get home my god to come and change all this. Amen! You don't have to think about people being dead. Yes, and look at all this food you brought. You got everything? Well we still got time to get here April 19th 2018 What time is food? 1230 quarter one whatever 1 o'clock All right come on park your car and come on in. Thank you I love Mike Hanson Archives Get ready to run

04:25 Well now take down your fishing pole And meet me at the fishing hole We may not get a bite all day But don't you rush away What a great place to rest your bones And mighty fine for skipping stones You'll feel fresh as lemonade Settin' in the shade Whether it's hot, whether it's cool Oh, what a spot for whistling like a fool What a fine day to take the stroll And wander by the fishing hole I can't think of a better way To pass the time of day

05:34 We'll have no need to call the road When we get to the vision hole There'll be you, me and old dog Trey To doodle time away If we don't hook a perch or bass We'll cool our toes in dewy grass Or else pull up a weed to char And maybe set and jar Hangin' around, takin' our eave Watchin' that hound a-scratchin at his flee Come on take down your fishing pole And meet me at the fishing hole I can't think of a better way to pass the time of day

06:26 Good evening and welcome to River City Talk. My name is Mike Hanson, we're coming to you live from the studios here at ACTV in beautiful East Austin I hope everybody had a happy Thanksgiving! We're coming to you live November 28th 1995. We have few announcements to make and will get right to the show next week will have Ben Tidwell which has a book out called The Long Hungry Road He was on the FBI most wanted list and he turned his life around and he'll be here to tell us how. We come to you every Tuesday night at 9 o'clock right here on channel 16. Tonight we're very honored to have Jack DeVault, who wrote a book entitled The Waco Whitewash

07:22 We're taking your calls in just a few minutes at 477-ACTV or 477-2288 if you have a question or comment. Also, we're going to ask Jack tonight to draw for the trivia contest that we've been having all month and we have every month and will ask him to draw number out of the hat tonight after...just before the show ends And I want introduce Mr. Jack DeVault They can change to other camera How you doing? Hi Mike. We really appreciate you coming in from San Antonio tonight to talk about your book a little bit Good to be here And first of all we want to ask you can you tell us a little bit about your book before we get started and what it entails Well the book details pretty much my own personal history with the Branch Davidians up until

08:16 the trial and then it breaks down the trial in a day by day description of the testimony from the government's own witnesses. What I hope we'll be able to prove here tonight, Mike is pretty much how the government killed 82 Branch Davidians hard for us to swallow how the government then rigged a trial to convict people of murder and conspiracy to murder, failed to get those convictions but still managed to send nine people to prison for a total of 248 years. Five of those people are in for 40 years on virtually life sentences because they're in their 30's every one is in their thirties

09:13 So in essence they have a life sentence and they were found not guilty of murder and conspiracy to murder. The last couple weeks we've been holding up the San Antonio Express paper that has Davidians found innocent of conspiracy to murder, they had that on the headlines can you tell us why that the papers came out with, that they were found innocent and that they're still in prison. That's a question I wanted to ask you tonight. Well it's a question we've all been asking all along. Uh...I don't believe that the people that are in prison should be there. I believe that uh... those that were found not guilty of the primary charges uh...should have simply had their wrists slapped for the minor charges that were involved

10:05 coincidentally the foreman of the jury and most of the members of the jury thought the same thing. So we have here a situation in which people were segregated out by the government for special attention, arrayed on their habitation without warning 128 people for whom there was no warrant for their arrest, were invaded shot at and the result is that we have nine still in prison. We have 82 persons dead plus four federal agents who are dead The whole thing could've been avoided very easily except that our government had gone out of control

10:58 The federal government does not have any constitutional authority to do the things that it did. But once it had done them, it had to justify to the people what it had done and thats why those people are in prison thats why 82 people are dead That's why a great number of things have happened that shouldn't have happened. But we need to take our government back, the government needs to be under the people. Do you think that anybody in the government or whoever is

11:40 Is the media biased on this because I didn't feel the way i did a year ago today. Do you think the media is biased? I had the pleasure two weeks ago of having dinner with Clive Doyle and his mother, and these people are not criminals in my opinion. An 82-year old woman is not a criminal! And Clive was just the meekest person you would ever meet. I don't feel these people are criminals like they're making them out to be. Is there anything going on here with the media that we should know about? Well, yes there is. If you knew all of the Branch Davidians who are now in prison, you would find them to be quite a similar personality to Clive Doyle and his mother. They're all nice folks. They were there to study the Bible

12:30 They had been perhaps misled in some of the teachings of David Koresh, but we're not here to judge people's doctrines. We're not here to decide what is right and what is wrong in that respect particularly the government is not here for that purpose if they were to be disciplined for some action the violations that they may have done were violations of state law and it was the state that should have gone in if there was anything to be done. The sheriff should have gone in, the sheriff could've corrected everything and there would've been nobody dead." Well Jack I got here a copy of the warrant that was issued February 28th 1993 do you know anything about the warrant that would be illegal? That the government did?" Well...to begin with

13:28 that warrant that you have was not really issued on that date unless it was issued after the raid took place because The, the warrant which Was taken to Mount Carmel that day. No one acknowledged ever taking it to the door no one ever acknowledged There were actually two warrants a search warrant and an arrest warrant for David Koresh The the Arrest Warrant was in the custody of the raid commander whose name slips me at this moment, but he said he left the warrant on the seat in the pickup truck that he was driving and the result was Special Agent Winoski is who it was.

14:18 He said, in sworn testimony that he left the warrant on the seat of the truck and it was never taken to the door. It was never served on anybody. No attempt was made to serve that warrant And I was told by another source that the warrant was shot up. They claimed the warrant was shot up and there were no bullet holes in the truck at all, is that true? Well, I don't know if it was shot up. They said they never recovered the warrant. They never found that warrant that Special Agent Winoski claimed to have with him on the seat of the truck

14:54 And none of the agents that went to the door had ever so much as seen a warrant. So, uh...the warrant was just eyewash after the fact and it did not was not a valid warrant at the time that the raid was made. Okay, did you want to go ahead and take a few calls and see what the people are thinking about your book? I know you're from San Antonio but do we have much dealings here in Austin? No, even in any of the stores here in Austin... Well maybe we'll try to change that! Okay let's let's try a few calls

15:32 They might have to, what they're going to have to do is put them... Hello? They're gonna have to put the calls in from there because sometimes this system don't work. They'll go ahead and put the calls on air for us. Hello in the control room? Well I'll get it straightened out a minute but what does this picture of that we have here that I was told and opportunity to look at some pictures of what the government or ATF did to the property out here. They totally destroyed this property with vehicles that didn't even belong to some of the Branch Davidians, they took tanks and ran over them and even destroyed the kids bikes and goat cars

16:20 Even some after the right after the fire, right? Is that what I understand this particular photo here is is a picture of one of the Urban like vehicles. So I think it's a Dodge as a matter of fact, but it is those van vehicles and behind which the ATF was hiding and Or was seeking shelter from the rain of fire Now this this firefight went on for just about a little over an hour And you can see from this hello from this picture that this vehicle Has eight bullet holes. Are there Mike? The front door

17:07 to the Mount Carmel place had countless bullet holes in it. In fact, the right-hand door had so many bullet holes in that the ATF and FBI removed it or at least it disappeared I guess I can't say who removed it but they did not even have this door to present as evidence because they didn't want it there Okay, are you there caller? Yeah this is the roof man. Hello caller. Hello this is the roof man can you hear me? Hang on just a minute we're going to get it straightened out. What about the helicopters did they say anything about Clive told me that he's one of the survivors if anybody doesn't know that Clive Doyle was one of the survivors who came out of the fire how many people came out of the fire nine

18:03 That's right. Nine people came out while the fire was going on, they were survivors of the fire on that 18th of April. the ATF was shooting out of helicopters. Is that not true? Well, that was on the day of the initial raid on February 28th and not April 19th which is the date of the fire in 1993 On the day of the raid there was a good deal of evidence

18:45 Helicopter at least a helicopter had fire had people in it who fired at Mount Carmel There were bullet holes in the roof of Mount Carmel that to the two lawyers that went in there saw and there was There were reports from the people in the place, but they were being fired on by the helicopter It's on them on the 9-1-1 audio tape Of which there is a transcript right here and in the Waco whitewash? There's a Incidentally, this book has a lot of documents in it besides the account of the eyewitnesses of the trial. It contains the transcripts of the 911 call and it contains the judge's questionnaire that he sent to screen the jury

19:33 to take off all the people that he found objectionable before Vordaer even occurred, before the attorneys had the opportunity to look this situation over and examine jurors. So this is another thing I hope we can get to The jury was selected by the judge not...and still they found the people not guilty. Okay maybe they'll have a They're trying to work on the calls. Are you there, caller? Yeah. Okay go ahead. Hello! Yes welcome to River City Talk we have Jack DeFault and Waco Whitewash

20:13 This is Roofman, can you hear me? Yeah go ahead. Okay I thought the shows with Clive Doyle were very interesting his demeanor and his benevolent behavior really says a lot about what was going on in the Waco compound it wasn't what the authorities led us to believe at all uh... i think that there isn't a uh... smashed the bicycles and everything they didn't want you to see anything that would up any feelings inside of you that these were human beings in there. These were people that they killed and there is a link between what happened in Waco and what's happening in Bosnia, last night the president committed us to a year in Bosnia which oversteps his

20:55 authority in the uh... declaration of independence or is it in the uh... the constitution which one of those two jokes that that that said he can only put troops out there for ninety days their their ramrodding all sorts of things down our throat used to be government by the people and for the people but they've amended and a bridge because to shoot what i think they are telling you who is lawyers uh... in the bolshevik revolution and then russia they lined up all the lawyers and shot I'm not saying that we don't have some good lawyers in this country. I'm just saying that if we don't watch out the distrust of the government and everything else, I mean it's obvious everybody from New York to Los Angeles California Distrusts the government. I mean even the conservative Republican people that

21:47 that have a lot of money are starting to distrust the government. And we are going to have a revolution in this country, it's either gonna be peaceful or it's gonna be violent and uh...we're heading that way right now and you know I just hope that it can be peaceful revolution and then we can get some third-party candidates in there The first thing Clinton did was he got all those unions behind him from the police union all the way down to the local union that I belong too and we went voted him in, what did he do? He passed NAFTA which he said was against when he was running. He lied to us time and time again I have a hard time finding the candidate that i believe in right now im kinda back in parole Hey Ruth Mann

22:29 We're kind of getting away from the subject. We got Mr Jack DeVault here from San Antonio and we don't want to waste him. Did you have a question for him on the Waco deal? Well, I do feel bad about people that are in jail You know, I really don't have a question for them because I talk to Clive quite a bit. I understand that people who are in jail are there without any fair trial They were tried and they were acquitted, and they should be free. This is another usurpation of power... I mean what right do they have to keep these people in jail? Are we not a communist state now? Is that what we are? And uh..I want to play the game! Okay go right ahead between 1 and 177 we are drawing tonight We're going to have Mr Jack DeVault draw tonight Okay i'll take uh...177 Oh wow, he's gone way up there okay

23:21 What Austin customer is the biggest utility user? Dell. The state of Texas. Huh? That's it, pays 26 million dollars per year Yeah they gotta keep that armored car going for the SWAT team isn't that an electric powered armored car? It's 5% of all provided in the city too Hey did you... Call us back! What'd you think about it when you saw Austin has a armored vehicle Did you see where the SWAT team went running down the freeway about a week ago with their armored vehicle out there to some small town to help out? No, I didn't see it but we're going to move right on. Call us back next week when we have open lines for them!

24:09 Okay, let me ask you a couple questions before we get to the next call. The initial raid did they say anything in the trial about friendly fire that the agent shot their own self? In fact one of the agents shot himself going up the ladder Did they say anything about this at all in the trial? That particular thing that a lot of people have seen in videos They denied that Any agent had shot himself walking climbing up the ladder to that upper room on the roof. However, at the trial some of the agents did agree that after they went in that room on the right as you watched that video one of the agents was shot in the guts and

24:58 He acknowledged that this was by a hydroshock bullet and that the Branch Davidians weren't using hydroshocks, only the ATF was. And he said one of the defense attorneys then in cross-examination asked him do you believe that you were shot by one of your own fellow agents? And he said well I probably was So it may have happened a good deal more than that one occasion as well. I know one of the questions someone is going to call in and ask, they had illegal weapons in there but what I was told they had some AR-15s and XK47s

25:44 MM, I guess it's millimeter guns. Are them legal? Were they legal at that time did they say anything about that in the trial? No they said a great deal about it but all of these guns they produced mountains of guns at the trial as evidence They produced burnt guns and unburnt guns They did just They had exhibit after exhibit of guns. I think that they brought something like 200 weapons in but one has to understand that the Texas Rangers were not even allowed in They were though they were the investigating agency The Texas Rangers work

26:28 But they were not even allowed in until they were sworn in as US officers. And this occurred some two days after the fire was put out In the meantime, ATF agents were all over the place as well as FBI agents. They could have assaulted anything! All of the evidence could have been tainted Now, as to specifics... they said that they found one gun that was operative and took it and fired in a full automatic mode which would've made that illegal weapon required $200 tax

27:10 All that for $200. Clive told me he could only think of 12 people in the whole place who would be shooting out of the windows, and the rest of them women and children upstairs were laying on top of their kids being shot at by helicopters If you read some of the accounts and talk to some of the survivors, they were all just scared out of their wits. They were not prepared to fight a battle. All our lines are lit, they're going to put another call on and that's another reason why people say well why didn't they come on out? They were scared! He told me that they were just plumb scared

27:47 Also, didn't the mailman when he tried to come out flash bomb him or something? It's David Koresh's brother-in-law. David Koresh's father in law is the one that came to the front door with him and was shot and killed. attempting to prove that the Branch Davidians had fired first. But I just wonder if you can visualize this sort of a situation where David Koresh comes to the front door, opens it unarmed his father-in-law is standing beside him and he holds up his hand as these ATF agents dressed in black with weapons at the port arms are racing toward him and he says wait don't let's talk there are women and children here

28:38 Then shots ring out. Now, I want to ask you and your viewers to consider that situation and think... David Koresh, everyone had said that David Koresh had said now let's not do anything crazy The only scenario that makes any kind of sense at all is either an accidental discharge occurred on one of the ATF guns Or they were panicky, they were on edge. These ATF agents were really raw recruits They had never been on a raid like this before many of them And when they saw him there they just started firing at him and his father-in-law was killed He was hit that time he died that night, that evening

29:27 and David Koresh was hit and wounded. So I think that it's very unlikely that the Branch Davidians fired the first shot as the government has been alleging again, and again, and again. In fact... and the water tower, and all that kind of stuff later. Yeah, yeah, I got one question for the branch of Indians You said these people didn't even serve them a warrant? They couldn't serve them a warrant! They got about halfway through the driveway And these ATF agents were getting fired on The branch of Indians attacked them How could they serve a warrant with people shooting at you Well, I think that you need to go back and review the trial transcripts and you'll find that the ATF agents themselves

30:13 deny what you are saying. President Clinton on Face the Nation or perhaps it was 60 Minutes with Ms Stahl said that there were ATF agents on the ground before dead killed by the Branch Davidians, before that raid ever came off That is a lie Mr President If this message ever gets to you, you were lying. There were no ATF agents on the ground... there were none shot until that raid came off and every- The Texas law says that you have a right to defend yourself. Caller listen to this because those at the trial, the jury listened to all his testimony that the government can muster

31:05 They listened to all the testimony the government could muster and they decided that any shots were fired in self-defense. There was not any possibility that the Branch Davidians fired first, there was not any possibility that they had set up System to shoot them when they arrived if they had tried to do that They could there would have been a terrible slaughter because they could have had the drop on them all. They could have killed 75 agents that day All kinds of food stored they had weapons Not the average person has and their home they were stuck for war it was prepared to fight They were prepared they were survivalists

31:51 You have to understand that they feared the government. The government fulfilled all of the prophecies that David Koresh said the beast would perform. Well yeah, they feared the government because it was after them because they were breaking the law! If you were breaking the law then you'd probably fear the police and the government a little bit too wouldn't ya? Well, it's an argument that will probably never be solved. The law that they were breaking if there was one required the payment of $200 tax and there were 128 people in there who had not broken any law and for whom there was never any warrant yet 82 of them died now you explain that to me well They should have surrendered if they weren't breaking the law They should have walked out when we're gonna

32:41 Anything ever happened if they knew illegal stuff was on there in the house. They shouldn't have been in the house They didn't know illegal stuff was in the house They were not aware There was a very few that knew anything about the weapons that was that was the crash had him brainwashed You're right do brainwashed people Are we ready to execute every brainwashed person in this country? Well, it order brainwash somebody there's three simple-minded Are we ready to execute every simple-minded person in this country? No, it's fine. It's an argument I'm just going to put a trivia there Okay let me ask you this before you go Let me ask y'all this Is it not true that they were planning on cutting the ATF budget and that Waco deal was a training mission before they went up to Utah to Claire Profitt or wherever she lives because she got tanks up there And they were using the Waco Deal as a training profit Did anything like that come up in the trial

33:37 It certainly did. It was clear every raid of this type is made either late at night or early in the morning Now this one had only one purpose. It was to be a TV show, that's why it was scheduled for 10 o'clock in the morning because you got good lighting for the TV! That's the only reason for doing it then they gave all kinds of excuses for going and saying men would not be in the house but they didn't know that the man wouldn't be in the house as it turned out them and were in the house. They had surveillance set up across-the-road

34:17 to find out exactly what the men did in the morning and the surveillance knew that they would be in the house. They were there! The TV screen right there was showing the surveillance house across the road Now, this raid was a public relations effort to show the mighty men of the federal government who are authorized to carry side arms and weapons, military weapons. In fact the ATF now has weapons of war they have airplanes that carry Gatling guns and rockets and bombs

35:00 They are equipped to go to war. They are not authorized in the Constitution to even have a federal police force. The Federal Bureau of Investigation, sir... You might be interested it was to investigate and they used to have to take the sheriff or the police with them to make an arrest. The ATF was built to break up stills during prohibition. They had to take the sheriff with them if they were going to arrest anybody The Congress has slowly relinquished the power of the people, the police power that should be local. If you're unlawfully improperly arrested

35:39 If you've committed something that people accuse you of a crime and you're not guilty of it, would you like the FBI to come in and swoop in on ya? And take you away some place. Have a federal judge who's been appointed for life or would you like to have the local sheriff where your friends could go down and talk to him? Where you could get things accomplished, where you can file a complaint, where the local judge is elected There's all kinds of problems with giving power to the federal government. It is exactly what Hitler did... It is the best and most comprehensive book on Bohemian Grove, it was written by Mike Hanson my old camera guy. Let me get his uh... get him in the copy of this. Yeah triple attribute thank you Mike Between 1 and 176 11 And hopefully he'll win OK

36:30 What state capital selected to host the Olympic Games in 1996? Atlanta. That's right! What was your name, sir? BJ. This is BJ. You're number 14 and you're number 2 and 4 too so just tune in because Jack DeVault will call. Thank you for calling. Another thing I want to talk about was everybody always says well, they're in here for the children But isn't it true that the federal government has no right to the children of the state of Texas? It's the state that has the jurisdiction To regulate that if there was child abuse if there was any child neglect If there was any kind

37:15 of a law broken on a moral or physical issue of that sort, it was a state law. It was not a federal law and the ATF filled up this document that they called a warrant with allegations that were violations of state laws that had nothing to do with their race absolutely nothing to do with it Here goes 14 in the hat. Ok, let's go on to another call. Welcome to River City Talk! Hi! First off I want to ask him why didn't Crush get himself up? And how could he have had all that ammunition and all the guns and things that he had and not be prepared for a war? And only 12 people knew where them guns were? You say only twelve people knew where the guns were?

38:05 They found them awful quick. He could not think of anybody except for 12 people in the whole place that would be shooting, the rest of them were like women and children and people that didn't deal with guns. Well it's funny they all got to him awful quick huh? But Jack just said a while ago if they really wanted to kill he woulda had 75 dead out there instead of 4. Well how come they didn't give themselves up? How come they didn't get out? Because they were scared is what I was told but I'll let Jack... Go ahead, I'm waiting. They were harboring you-I was waiting for you to finish that sentence. David Koresh had these people under his spell. They believed that David Koresh was telling them the truth. He said that the government would

38:52 Why? What was he so paranoid about? Why did he think the government was after him for what reason? Because he they studied the book of Revelation and and the book of Revelation talks about the beast in in the last days, and The government was performing precisely as David Koresh had interpreted the Bible to his followers. Why would the government acting that way I

39:34 Why was the government acting that way is a very good question. That's what we've all been asking ever since. Why did they want to arrest him in the first place? Well, that has not ever been fully investigated and we're trying right now to get this whole matter before grand jury there have been all kinds of crimes that were committed that have not been investigated as I told you before... Was it on federal charges Well, yes. There are federal laws that were broken there were state laws that were broken by you go That's why the FBI was there They don't yet and everything else no no You're misunderstanding me There were federal laws that were broken by the federal agents There were there were state laws that were broken by those federal agents their well

40:33 Good question. Let me, let me uh... Come on! Think quick because I think what they did they did it a hundred percent behind them 100%. No they had... They had the chance to get out of there with their children and they didn't they chose not to that's right they chose not to so they got what they asked for They thought they would be killed. They thought they would be killed if they walked out! Regardless, if they had that many people there bombarding them anyway... ...they were going to be killed anyway so why not take the chance and get out? That doesn't make much sense. Well, what are the charges? That's what I'm interested in It doesn't make much sense unless you can put yourself in the position of one of those branch Davidians to them it made perfect sense They were they knew they were going to die so they stayed with the with the leader Why are they afraid to die if their Christians? They're not afraid to die. Why didn't he come up and give himself up Oh

41:28 Why are they afraid? If he's a big Christian and he had all these followers, why didn't they give themselves up. He made no claim to be a Christian. He is afraid to die! He is not a Christian?! He made no claim to be a Christian. Okay wait...they're telling me I got a lot more calls here and he'll uh...did you want to tell her real quick about What what laws were violated the laws that were primarily violated with a fact that they came there to arrest on state laws when they had no jurisdiction on state laws. They had no authority whatsoever to go in and arrest on the basis of the warrant that they drummed up later on. The... Did the local police know he was heavily armed? Sure

42:14 Sure. Sheriff Harwell... Are you going to go to a gunfight and take out a knife? They're gonna send what they need to send, right? So are you gonna tell me that you're gonna go in armed or...? I'm not making any defense for David Koresh other than the fact that he was improperly attacked! It's the government that should have the highest level David Koresh and his followers are Not perfect people, but they don't have the authority of the state behind them They were they were the ones that should have been investigated. They shouldn't have been shot up They shouldn't have been Raided as if they were there were a bunch of murderers because they weren't they hadn't committed a single crime unless

43:02 It can be proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they had an illegal weapon. That's the only federal charge that might be able to stand up. If Correia had given itself up, none of it would have happened. Okay... That's true! We're going on some more calls. Did you want to play this real before we go? Yes. Between 1 and 176. 69 Oh God, here we are going with 69 again Every week Jack, every week we get a 69 up here. Okay What state has the biggest meat packing center in the world? Texas Kansas Nebraska or Missouri Texas Kansas Nebraska or Missouri It's Nebraska call us back next week Thank you. Let's go on to the next call We're gonna move them a little quicker now Hello welcome to River City Talk

44:02 Hello, welcome to River City Talk. Hi. I'd like to talk to Jack. Go ahead. First I would like to comment on something he said earlier. I was wondering if you were actually saying that the reason they stormed in on Compound at that ten o'clock was because they wanted it on TV? Are you actually saying that?" Yes, I'm saying that. Ordinarily a raid is taken under cover of darkness or under cover of the sleep of people going to raid They either do it midnight or six o'clock in the morning That's the standard time police raids take place

44:40 Okay, thanks. Um it just sounds a little strange but I see your reasoning well this whole thing is strange I tell you what I felt just like that woman did A year ago and I've been investigating in the last couple months and this whole case is strange It really is Hello? Yeah, did you want to play a trivia before you go? Okay between 1 and 176. One. Okay. The whole thing is strange... Okay according to Terry Sandbeck PhD Arthur of the deadliest diet What is the top kind of food craved by women? Oh god that's a... Okay ice cream chocolate cookies or pizzas

45:28 Um, can you repeat those choices? Uh ice cream chocolate cookies or pizza I have to go with chocolate. Chocolate's number two number one was ice cream and number eight was cookies and number nine was pizza donuts was number three Okay, call us back next week. Okay? Did you want to say anything else on that Jack real quick no That's all right I'd like it I hope before we get through tonight that we can talk about the gap back the final attack on April 19th They were out for the children You know the federal government claimed they were out for this Janet Reno says she was after their children But you know they played music all night long and had the lights scared the children to death they bashed in the side of the building

46:12 Do you know if in the trial they said anything about killing any of the children with the tanks when stuff fell down? Well, the medical examiner indicated that some of the death was blunt object trauma on some of the children but that was when the tower caved in on their heads in this strong room they were in. But that whole episode needs to be understood from its inception because at 6 o'clock on the morning of April 19th is when the raid actually began and they began inserting CS gas into the building using a tank. Okay, we got a caller here it looks like. Hold on just get...

47:03 Back away from your TV just a second, just a little bit. Yeah go ahead. Yeah I was wondering something y'all talking about this Waco thing and them coming in there and busting all that stuff up can't apparently find out the reason do you know anything about the Zindigs? The Zindig farm at Bastrop? I have no idea if you want to give I'm gonna call the comment line and tell me about it in more detail. Maybe we can have a show on it? It's the same kind of situation going out there, Mike at the Zimdick Farm. It's Ambassador Texas' commune out there for hippies. Uh-huh...I've been out there they uh..they'll let few people come out every once in awhile if you get special permission to come up there on their land and ah.... I swear to God! I saw them with my own eyes They're goin pot out there marijuana plants. I swear these suckers 12 feet tall

47:55 Now why don't they go out there and do something about that? But they did stuff in Waco, pray tell. that's where i don't know it and i do not want to have never heard of that but they're not exactly a backdrop is about the country little way for a while in colorado river at the time you got there isn't that far apart from the people who might be a mopping down well-equipped reader six straight up after now we have a good thing trying to cover a couple of bucks Well, if you can give me a call in the comment line they'll put that up for you. You don't know anything about this? No but if you'd like to call and tell me about it on the off time off camera I would love to know. Okay well let me pick a card. Between 2 and 176. Somebody's took one already. 61. 61. But anybody who has a comment give us a call in the comment line there

48:59 Okay in the food and drink company who spends the largest amount on advertisement in the United States? McDonald's, Kellogg's Budweiser or General Mills That would be... Mother bullet! Mother Bullet! Over to Starbucks! Well He lost out. Okay, we're going to the next call did you have any...did you want to finish up about the CS gas? Yeah it's gonna take about three minutes talk to tell this story so... I'll hold the calls for just a minute On April 19th of 1993 they RJ Craig was the special agent the FBI Special Agent from the hostage rescue team who was in charge of the tracked vehicles

49:46 They had two 54-ton tanks which had been rigged to insert CS gas into the building. They had three or four, we never were able to determine of these Bradley vehicles that were also equipped to shoot ferret rounds which are grenades into the building containing this CS gas Now, you need to understand that CS gas is not ordinary tear gas. That ordinary tear gas is CN gas. CS gas is different. The manufacturer's warning on the label says that it is not to be used in a building or an enclosed area. It says that it is instantly incapacitating. It says the eyes close involuntarily within two seconds

50:34 and the person generally falls to the ground or to the floor. It says that prolonged exposure in excess of eight minutes may be cause of death. Now, from six o'clock in the morning until 12 noon when the fire broke out they were inserting this CS gas but at 6 o'clock in the morning The first objective that Special Agent R.J. Craig had with his tank was to go to the north end of the building where the underground bus had been buried and break into the building and wreck the trap door and stairway that led to this underground bus, then he was to insert CS gas in that end of the building

51:27 What this did was it was to drive all of the people away from that one safe haven that was down there, that underground bus where they might have survived. As the attack wore on about 1030, they had put gas in from all sides of the building by this time and they'd also broken down the front door And the total number of ferret rounds, I believe was in excess of 300 that they had fired. Plus they had inserted all manner of gas from these heavy tank vehicles that had a special

52:09 aqualung like tank that they had rigged. It was a jury-rig deal, but the tank that R.J. Craig was driving had four of these tanks of compressed air or compressed CO2 gas and CS gas as a propellant. they had inserted enough gas to disable, immobilize, incapacitate everybody in that building that didn't have a gas mask on and of course they didn't have any gas masks for the children. What happened was During this early morning portion of the raid, when they were pushing in from all sides of the building. They squeezed them down into the center of the building Now you may recall that diagrams and pictures you've seen of the building In the very center there's a four story tower The base of that tower was a concrete block room All the rest of the building, the entire structure of Mount Carmel was sheetrock and plywood and used lumber

53:11 except for that one concrete block building that formed the first story of that tower. And they used that for a cold storage locker, later they moved their weapons and ammunition into that locker as well but thats where all of the women and children were moved when they started this gas attack because they didn't have any way to protect them no gas masks for the children, the mothers went with em' They were in this center building Every time they'd stick their nose out of that building, of that concrete block room... ...they would be met with a barrage of CS gas and they had no way of combating it. So they couldn't get out! Then the fire and smoke came and there was NO WAY OUT It became even worse as the fire builds up There was no way that they could escape The FBI had methodically driven them to a point where they could not escape And then the fire started

54:07 Okay, we'll stop right there and we got a caller and let me just say at 10 o'clock We are going with they gave us the extra 30 minutes tonight So we are going to 1030 tonight if you're watching this live on the 28th of November. We are going to 1030 tonight and We're gonna go to a break at ten o'clock and then we'll be right back on hello caller Yes Mr.. DeVall if you talk to any of the survivors very extensively I Yes, I have. I've talked to a number of them Well, I don't think that the government actually intended anybody to survive this thing and the way they tried to destroy all the evidence later You know burning the building and crushing it in and all...I don't think they meant for anybody to survive or be able to tell what had actually happened inside

55:02 Well, I was convinced that that was the case right from the beginning. I went up to Waco from San Antonio about two weeks into the siege because I wanted to see what was going on. I was curious, uh...I had been familiar with the Randy Weaver case up in Idaho and had been watching it closely and this looked to me like it had some of the same odor that the Randy Weaver case had So I went up there and I happen to be a firm believer in the right to life. I believe that no matter how kooky, how weak-minded, how...I don't agree with somebody's ideas about something. I believe they have a right to live just as an unborn child in the womb has a right to live. I believe in the right to life

56:00 After I saw what had what was going on up there and how we were prevented the news media even was prevented from getting anywhere near the place I believed that they had intended to destroy all of the evidence and all of the witnesses. And so we came back, and we tried to establish a Operation Rescue type effort to go up there and break through the lines. It was unsuccessful because we just couldn't recruit enough people to do it but I believe at at that time and I believe it this time, that there was no accidental fire. I believe that the FBI and ATF wanted that building to burn now they may not have directly started the fire i'm not accusing them of that but if...I don't believe that's an impossibility either! I don't believe it's an impossibility that David Koresh started the fire but I don't believe he did.

56:53 The most probable answer to the fire is that it was accidental and nobody intended for it to start, but the FBI was not unhappy to see all that evidence destroyed because it destroyed the evidence that proved that the helicopters had fired which they denied. It would have proven a great number of things but they bulldozed that site You've seen local police preserve the crime scene. There was no crime scene preservation attempted up there, they attempted to destroy the crime scene And ma'am, did you ever hear about the news media was reporting 30 people had survived on the backside of the compound or complex whatever you would call it and the church I'd call it. They never just say anything else about that do you know anything about that? I haven't heard anything about that

57:47 Okay, well there's the law though for The government to fire or to use the military against its own citizens regardless of how popular their beliefs are There that's that's right. There has been a law called the posse comitatus Law which is described in this book And there has been a long tradition of not using the military against civilians the Congress in weakening our power over the police and putting more power in the federal government has In an effort to fight crime and the drug Traffic they have authorized the use of military force Against drugs, so they alleged that there was a drug lab on Mount Carmel They knew that there was not but they alleged it just the same So as to get the tanks and helicopters And all of the military support that they got

58:45 And even the agent in there, and he came back out before the raid and said there's nothing going on in there. And they still went on with a raid is that not true? That's right. Okay ma'am did you want to play trivia because we're going into a break. Yes please. Between 2 and 176? 28. How many of the animals legs must a cowboy tie in a calf roping contest? Three Three is right, your number 15. What was your name ma'am? Diane. Okay we'll be drawing in just a few minutes and can you call the comment line leave me your name and your number in case you win or just listen if you don't win you do not have to okay let me just make a few announcements before we go to the break

59:38 Loopy V has a show on here on channel 16, Saturday night from 10-12 midnight. You can request your own country video call him and request it same number 477ACTV Jeff Davis is on Wednesday nights from 830 to 10 here on channel 16 Greg Erickson is on Tuesday nights from 7-830 and then at 9 o'clock on Tuesday night we come on River City Talk So be sure to tune in and we will be back with Mr. Jack DeVault with his book, The Waco Whitewash and we'll be right back after this short six minute video

1:00:21 and we'll keep it talking until they show the video. But, uh... We'll be back as soon as they get this video on. And we're going to 1030 tonight not ten o'clock as usual. They are giving us extra 30 minutes to get the story in of the Waco whitewash. ...preserve protect and defend the Constitution of the United States so help me God. Congratulations. This was not a military assault where a body count was going to be added up at the end. Get that camera out of here! Get it out of here! I need help, I can't move! Move! Go! This is not an assault We have got to remember who these people were what violence they had committed and understand in that context Just in case you don't remember

1:02:19 Let me jog your memory In a church they called the Waco Kong Back in April 93 17 little children All so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flames How many names can you recall? Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder why Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die

1:03:25 Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have we become so blind? Will seventeen little children finally open up your mind? Last night Bill Clinton, tell me did you feel their pain? The seventeen little children

1:04:05 Cried out and perished in the flames Attorney General Janet Reno I accept your offer to resign How can you stand for law and order now When you won't answer to your crimes? Seventeen little children All so helpless and so small Seventeen little children How many names can you recall? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have they become so blind? Seventeen little children

1:05:14 Find me, open up your mind I've heard it said the Branch Davidians Only got what they deserved Yet no one seems to know what laws were broken What was in the war and they never served Yesterday I sold my TV set Stopped my subscription to the Times To me it's plain to see The media Was an accomplice to these crimes Seventeen little children

1:06:15 Don't it make you wonder why? Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves Have we become so blind Will seventeen little children Finally open up your mind, up your mind

1:07:11 Hey, we're back live here on the 28th of November 1995. So give us a call here at 477-ACTV. We got Jack DeVault he has a book out The Waco White Wash and they'll go to the other shot where you get a little bit better shot of it if You want to copy this book? It's not sold here in Austin so give us a call on the comment line And we'll make sure we get you a copy of it We'll let you know the details of the book where you can get a hold of it and stuff. Give us call in the comment line if you want to book. And we're going into another call because I, uh, we're running out of time. We've got thirty more minutes left. Okay they're gonna put another call on for us. Yes hello? Yes hi! Sounds like Charlie. Thank God for that. You said we were live?

1:08:10 Jack, as I see it the congressional hearing deteriorated into a fight between Republicans and Democrats. And then they had agreement that Goresh was a pedophile They had agreement that the Davidians started the fire Do you believe either of those things? I believe that David Koresh had a severe moral problem. He believed he was alright, that he was doing what God wanted him to do. I think he had convinced himself of hypnosis arrangement

1:08:55 But there are some very serious questions about David Koresh's behavior and he acknowledged being father to 13 of those children by different women in Mount Carmel. However, that is a state offense and that needs to be taken care of by the state not by the federal armies marching in there with helicopters and tanks and so forth Now your other question was Well, I had a did they start the fire right? Yeah the fire. Yeah Let me let me just tell you what they have done to prove who started the fire They got a gentleman former ATF officer named gray From over at the Houston ATF office To be the chief fire investigator one of their own

1:09:49 He had three assistants from all supposed fire experts from all over the country. The other fire experts had no access to the information that Mr. Gray, Mr Paul Gray put out about the starting of the fire. Mr Gray came to the amazing conclusion that the Branch Davidians had started the fire His evidence was not very sound though. They had a forward looking infrared camera in an aircraft over the place which showed that fires started at three separate locations, or at least they broke out where they were visible on the infrared camera at three different locations in Mount Carmel

1:10:35 There is no explanation given that the Branch Davidians set those three fires. They simply have made that allegation and said this is what happened I believe that the Branch Davidian were prepared to fight when the tanks went clear inside the building, and they did they were prepared to fight those tanks to the death because they knew they were going to die. They just simply said, we're gonna do everything we can to resist unto the death and...they may have even I believe it is possible that if in the event of fire was started by the Branch Davidians it was probably started when the tanks came in and they had prepared Molotov cocktails

1:11:24 because there had been a mention that they could fight the tanks by using these. Now I don't know that and it's my... It is the worst possible slant on it from the Branch Davidian side, but I'm trying to be objective about this thing. I really think that the most probable cause was the tank because the fire first broke out after a tank backed out from the second floor story room on the South side of the building and The fire then became apparent within 45 seconds after that tank backed away And that's where the first spot of flame occurred now it had just inserted a bunch of CS gas into that area and

1:12:13 I don't believe that the CS gas was flammable. I don't believe it was a fire hazard in itself, but the way they went into the building... They entered the buildings with those tanks! They didn't just poke holes as you may have seen on TV. They destroyed the building! The whole gym roof was on the ground And the trap door at the north end of the building leading to the underground bus was absolutely collapsed and the tank had to go all the way into the building to do that. The tank went all the way into the building and breached the concrete block room where children were, which I mentioned before. Where the women and children most of their bodies were found in that concrete block room And the tank went all the way in there So I believe that the tanks actually are the most probable cause of the fire One point...I agree one more quick question We were only allowed to see one side at that building

1:13:12 the public was there was a reporter that that claimed and i heard it in the congressional hearings to people about the gas said that no man or woman could stand against the gas they had to leave and go where the gas was not go to be uh... go-to air one reporters stated he counted 21 people that fled from the reverse side of the building. Is there any evidence that these people were brought under sniper fire? I don't have solid evidence, I have hearsay as perhaps you have that a young man named

1:14:01 No, well Jimmy Riddle was one that was killed and not all of his pieces were in one place with the same degree of burn as those that were nearby. In other words it appeared he had been bulldozed back into the place but there was a young man named Lovelock who is a British citizen who survived the fire and whose father died while they were in jail awaiting trial, and they allowed him to go back to Great Britain for his father's funeral on the condition that he be returned as a material witness to testify at the trial. He never came back,

1:14:47 that he never came back is because when they let him out of jail and he went to the airport, he told everybody that there were between 25 and 30 that had tried to get out the back way to escape the fire. And they were mowed down by snipers now third-hand hearsay that I'm telling you. I don't know that, i don't have any evidence to prove that but it certainly appears that could be a possibility. This was in one of the films we reviewed where someone could see from the road to that point but they counted 21 according to them One more question Janet Reno...I mean the new crime bill

1:15:30 they have passed new laws. Is that a fact yet and how will that affect what we can say and do as we're doing now at this forum? And I'm going to leave the line now. Okay, thank you Charlie Well, yes it is in effect. The crime omnibus crime bill was passed and it's a disaster however it doesn't affect our first amendment rights to free speech that's the only good thing we can say about everything else about it is bad It would make had the branch Davidians been found guilty of

1:16:09 murder or conspiracy to murder, they would have faced the death penalty under the present crime...under the omnibus crime bill. However at the time of their trial uh... the ex post facto law occurs and they couldn't take it back and make them guilty of something that was not punishable by a death penalty at the time that occurred. Of course, they weren't guilty of that anyhow but then that's just an example uh... there are a great number of things that that omnibus crime bill did I don't know all of them but generally it was bad news for the rights of private citizens Okay, they want y'all to see this two minute video before we go off and we got calls and were going to get your call as soon as we get back on. They want you to see this video of... I'm not exactly sure what it is because i didn't have very much time to review it but look at this video will come right back on with your... Civil rights activists and gun lobbyists say law enforcement is becoming increasingly militarized in the United States

1:17:15 They say that on the first anniversary of the fire that ended the Branch Davidians standoff with federal authorities in Waco, Texas. The various groups are calling for a full congressional investigation...of the incident I agree! I agree and there's a group of protesters demonstrating in front of the FBI building in Washington on the first anniversary of the fiery end to the Branch Davidian 51 day standoff in Waco, Texas They say there will be a larger crowd later south of the White House where they plan to erect 83 crosses for those who died in the fire. Now remember, ladies and gentlemen it's very important you understand this here you got Bill Clinton with his crocodile tears about little old Michael Fay that is going to get patted on the popo with a cane in Singapore even trying to get ex-president George Bush to intervene while he was over there

1:18:12 This is the same man who stood and quietly let rabid Reno burn him out in Waco. Now there is a difference, ladies and gentlemen... Reno burned him out in Waco. Now there's a difference, ladies and gentlemen Michael Fay will have a sore behind In Singapore where he was convicted for not being just a bad boy but head of group that was doing naughty things called a gang I guess But there something else about Michael Fay Michael Fay went through the judicial process. You see, he was charged with a crime in Singapore He then went through trial and went through sentencing And now there's a period of time before they will execute the sentence The people in Waco were not charged with the crime It was a search warrant! You have to understand this People in Waco were not charged with a crime

1:19:11 What they did is they took this search warrant, which they knew they would not ever execute because they didn't plan to execute the search warrant. They planned instead to do a dynamic entry publicity and it went sour and 80 some odd people died in the fire BATF agents died, Branch Davidians died men women children all died They had never been tried or convicted of any, ANY crime. They were totally innocent until proven guilty and even after a trial no murder convictions Now ladies and gentlemen we got a country that has a government that has gone mad We saw it with Randy Weaver, we saw it at Trout Creek, we saw in the Scott case...we've seen it in other cases such as up in Boston

1:20:15 An elderly minister sitting in his apartment, the SWAT team breaks in. They got the wrong apartment and a man dies of heart attack. This country is nuts! Back on live. We're back on live on River City Talk we come to you every Tuesday night from 9- to 10 p.m right here on channel 16 they did give us extra 30 minutes tonight and maybe next week too okay we got a caller and we're going put up Jack DeVault's number if you want to get ahold of him but he wanted make just one little sentence before we get to your caller about what you were telling me during the break that you are amazed at what Austin thinks about this yeah well, we've only had two callers I think that expressed this

1:21:02 they're willing to give up the rights of those one hundred and twenty eight people who were guiltless just because they they wanted uh... associate with this man because he had he had uh... hypnotized them a but they were uh... they work it was all right for the government to go in there and shoot him up and read'em and kill em and uh... take their property that we was alright it was okay for that that happen i don't understand why you want to give up your right freedom, your liberty, your ability to move. Your ability to live where you want to live that's a right that should be precious for every American. Okay caller go right ahead we're running out of time we're going try and take them a little bit quicker. Caller? Good evening gentlemen Hi How are ya'll doing? We're doing just fine I'd like to touch on a few things

1:21:53 I heard a lady caller, I think she was the second or the third that she asked what kind of laws were broken by the federal government. Well, I've been sitting here compiling a list and I'm sure it's not complete but this is the way i see it using military property against citizens in civilian law enforcement action violations of the first second fourth fifth and possibly the tenth amendment to the federal constitution Failure to serve a lawful search warrant, failure to protect and secure lives and property, destruction of the crime scene, obstruction of justice, failure to provide fair and speedy trial, and also impartial jury of their peers. That's what I compile

1:22:44 I'm glad you called in, sir because that's a good list. Do you agree with everything he just said? That's right and almost everything he said plus a few are listed in this book of the first ten amendments the Bill of Rights to our Constitution they violated at least seven that we've been able to account for Okay, sir. Did you have anything else real quick? Yeah one more thing that really disturbs me more than that And that's that our governor at the time and attorney general allowed this to happen on Section 4. The helicopters? What about the helicopters, she allowed the helicopters to be used was that the National Guard helicopter? Yes she gave permission. She oughta be ashamed of herself. Well Sheriff Harwell from McLennan County should be ashamed of himself he should have stopped it because he knew about it fully beforehand and he was the chief law enforcement officer of the county

1:23:41 if sheriffs understood that their authority is greater than the authority of a federal agents when they're acting in this in their jurisdiction we wouldn't have this trouble but unfortunately sheriff's think that the hierarchy goes from the town to those counties or the through the state so the to the federal government it's not that way the federal government is not superior to all other law enforcement agencies and they should not be considered that way. Okay sir we're going to move on, we got a long distance call from North Carolina on the phone they calling three-way from North Carolina do you want play trivia contest tonight? Number 50. We wanna get that calling in Mr Jack DeVaul okay what's the only dog that doesn't have a pink tongue uh... That would be

1:24:34 Um, a chow. That's right! Your number…if Jack pulls number 16 you'll win the night. What is your name sir? Name it Troy. Troy? Okay thank you so much and if you could call me on the comment line to let me know how I can get in touch with you okay? Okay. Alright thank you so much. Thank You They got a long distance call from North Carolina on the line 2 and putting number 16 in the hat right now Can you hear me Mr. Hampton Yes You can hear me okay? Uh, can you speak up just a touch. Is that any better? Yeah Okay I've got a question for your guest. I'd like to know if he's familiar with Title 10 of the United States Code Not offhand...I'm not a lawyer Not even title ten section 372 which states

1:25:24 Secretary of Defense may authorize the use of Department of Defense equipment or facilities to any federal, state, or civilian law enforcement official for law enforcement purposes. You're not familiar with that? Uh no I...I certainly am NOT! It sounds like it's contrary to the Posse Comitatus Act Well, Posse Comitatus Act regards use of Federal military equipment and personnel for counter-narcotics operations No, the Posse Comitatus Act doesn't refer to drugs and... Well that's generally the way it is applied. Is that not correct? It deals with the arrest power of the federal military? Yes, that's right! Well this is separate from Posse Comitatus. Now you have a direct citation from United States Code

1:26:16 that says the use of military equipment was perfectly legal there. now if you've got a problem with that, why doesn't somebody go and file a case and challenge us in court? i think anne richards was tricked into this is what she was claiming at one time. well give me your citation they talked... At the Washington hearings, I was at the Waco congressional hearings in Washington. And they had a general over there and several others and nobody brought this up! They said that the only... Oh sure they did. I watched those hearings in Washington. They discussed Title 10. I suggest you go back and look at your tapes again. Well perhaps they did- I can tell you for a fact that Lieutenant Colonel Lindley addressed that issue

1:26:59 Give me the title 10 section number. It's Title 10, Section 372 United States Code. He's going to write it down and also they're gonna check the tape on the Waco hearings that you were watching? What hearing was she watching? No, I guess it was the joint house or joint senate. Ok well we got somebody in the house that has all them tapes and they're gonna check you out. Go look at that. Lieutenant Colonel Lindley from USSOCOM, staff attorney looked at that issue. I was there when Colonel Lindley testified and i just don't recall it. We're running out of time! Did you want to play a game before we go?

1:27:38 Sure, let me win one more for Jeff Davis. Okay go right ahead between 2 and 176 18 This must be Bill is that where you moved to in North Carolina? Yes sir What does a red flag mean in auto racing? It means you gotta come into the pit What do you think about that I think you've got to give it to him Okay it means stop so I guess your right okay this is who Bill Yeah give it up to Jeff Davis Okay, you're number 17. We are going to draw and we are running out of time so let me put number 17 in the hat. You're about out of time go ahead sir. I have a piece of information that you might take some interest in. Is that Jack? Jack DeVos. How are you sir? Fine thank you. Well I don't know if you heard anything but this is something that I just recently heard of my wife's daughter

1:28:37 who's been going to the Texas A&M, excuse me. She said that she had a friend who worked at a place called Waco Living Rehabilitation Center which I found to be a business in Waco that do private rehabilitation for people who have been involved in automobile accidents also uh... retarded people emotionally unstable people people with ms spontaneous limb atrophy disorder that sort of thing and they've been doing a field day activity about uh... a mile from where the disaster in waco took place

1:29:18 And on the day that it all began, they were outside doing discus events and track and hurdles. And shot put and pole vaulting... Well at any rate what happened was one of the emotionally unstable people I believe she suffered from multiple personality disorder or something like maybe schizophrenia She wandered onto the ground where Waco was, in Waco excuse me, where everything was going wrong. I'm sorry it's taking so long but at any rate one of the ATF officers during crossfire accidentally shot her and it was suppressed in the media. Now... Okay sir! I have to cut you off we're out of time. I hate your God!

1:30:15 Go ahead and draw. Jack's going to draw for the trivia contest, this is for the November Trivia Contest go ahead and just pick a number and tell me who it is I'll tell you who it is Okay we have number eight Number eight if you were number eight that looks like Trey so Trey will be getting in contact with you and River City Talk comes to you from 9 to 10 o'clock every Tuesday night. And I want to appreciate Mr Jack DeVault for driving in from San Antonio and you're kind of appalled at what people are still thinking out here, right? Well the word just hasn't gotten out except what the government has released to the media and people are going to have misconceptions as long as that goes on If you want to get in touch with Jack's book give us a call on the comment line there

1:31:03 And we'll see you next week here at 9 o'clock on Tuesday nights right here on channel 16. And God bless everybody! What a great place to rest your bones and mighty fine for skipping stones. You feel fresh as lemonade setting in the shade, whether it's hot or whether it's cool

1:31:52 Oh, what a spot for whistling like a fool. What a fine day to take a stroll and wander by the fishing hole I can't think of a better way to pass the time of day We'll have no need to call the roll When we get to the vision hole There'll be you, me and old knob tray To doodle time away If we don't hook a perch or bass We'll cool our toes in dewy grass Or else pull up a weed to char And maybe set and jar