Mike Hanson(Classic Interview 1995) With Catherine Matteson(passed Away Oct. 6, 2009) [WTIfnuQxgAw]

00:00 Well, hello folks. It's Mike Hanson here. This is the year 2020 and this video that you're getting ready to see on Waco Archives is Katherine Matteson. She passed away back in 2007 and this was when she was on my show even before Alex Jones became famous down at ACTV. This is when I had my own show down here at ACTV and Catherine Madison agreed to come on, she's she is one of the Waco survivors

00:40 And boy, was she a pistol. And right after I played this interview that I did with her which is really amateur way back when she just first got out of jail and They finally let her go. They did charge her at first and tried to keep her in jail and keep her on house arrest, but later on they let her go. This was like maybe 95 or 96 I'm not sure exactly it's when way before the general public knew anything

01:19 the real details about what was going on with Waco. You remember Waco, the end of it happened April 19th 1993 she was there when when the raid happened and February 28 she saw the helicopter shooting David's room. They said they weren't shooting out of the helicopters, that was a bunch of crap she'll tell you that and then we talked him in later on to going on to extra The TV show were gonna play that right after my interview and she really hammers them and calls them murders and everything else And it just gets better and better toward

02:05 about finding information out about what happened at Waco. And also then later on, 1999 we rebuilt the church for our friends, the Branch Davidians and we dedicated to church to them in 2000 20 years ago time goes by quick it's already been about 26 years since well maybe 27 1993 26 or 27 years since this happened. So I hope you enjoy this interview, it's one of the first interviews with Katherine Madison here in Austin Texas she ended up living in Austin Texas and I've become really really really good friends with her and loved her to death uh...I think she died 2007-2008 or something like that but

03:01 I hope you enjoy this interview and then right after we're going to play the extra interview. This is our new channel, The Waco Archives and we're gonna try to put all our interviews that we've done over the last 25 years on here. Alrighty God bless if you want to get in touch with us here it's PLBOX 481 Gonzales, Texas or other address 901 st. Joseph's here in Gonzalez, Texas Thanks a lot and God bless We have a world, in my opinion, a world famous person here tonight. Katherine Madison she's a Mount Carmel survivor and she was were you the only one that saw the helicopter shooting at the house when they first came up or is any other survivors left? Well some of them there was two other ladies one heard them and once saw them but they didn't see the shooting I saw the shooting

04:04 And that was the first thing, the first shots that were made was from the three helicopters. They were aiming at David's room and that was the only room they could be aiming at and they did really make it so full of holes when Jack Zimmerman saw it he said it looked like Swiss cheese Okay, we got telephone calls. Give us a call at 477-2288 We're gonna see if the phones are working We've had a lot of problems tonight. We don't have the full crew here tonight because everybody's on vacation But since we got ahold of Katherine Madison and exclusive video we just got through showing you it has never been shown Are you there Mike? Hold on they're going to get it straight in just a minute We'll have full crew her next week right

05:01 Okay, go right ahead. Are you with me Mike? Yes! Go right ahead I'm outraged at what my government did up there in Waco and David's right they can't get away with what they were doing We've got to make them accountable in 96 Now we cant hear it all We've gotta vote that liar out of the White House There ya go We've gotta vote him out in 96 I hold Bill Clinton accountable Bill Clinton or the Attorney General? I hold Bill Clinton accountable. And when they come back in here maybe they can turn the volume up because we can barely hear it in here Did you want to ask Catherine Madison, a survivor of the Mount Carmel siege... Yes I do want to ask her question. Uh..I-I can't hardly hear. I got a ringing in my ear though Okay they're trying to fix it

05:48 Just bear with us, because we got half of the crew we regularly have up here. This was a last minute deal since we got ahold of this Catherine Madison and we're trying to get it together for you Well they've had several different explanations of the helicopter that fired on the ATF agents that went into the window Were they shooting at the one who refused to go into the window? Were they shooting at him because he backed out at the last minute he threw a couple of concussion grenades it looked like or were they real grenades in there after the other three agents went in the window then the helicopter rained gunfire onto the building and then he slid down the ladder as fast as you could because they were firing on his position so what what i want to what i want to suggest to you is that maybe their world uh... conspiracy within the eighty f

06:40 to uh... then these three agents there that also by some strange coincidence bed personal liaisons to bill clinton in the secret service uh... i think there might have been a plan within the eighty f two off these three guys during the whole incident uh... that's that's against return my watch too many old movies but they are prepared to get away with these three guys that had seen some goings on in the White House unfavorable to Bill Clinton. And I want to ask you about that, if you know anything about it? Well, I had heard that three of the men who'd been with Bill Clinton had been murdered

07:20 But what I saw was behind the building and the three helicopters that came in, in V formation shooting at David's room. They were in the back of the building they were shooting from the north side of the building through to the south side where his room was And this was the first shooting that anyone heard. When they turned around to go out, there was a few seconds of complete silence. There was no shooting at all." Then when they got to the front of the building, there was more shooting. And I believe this is when Jadine was shot. She was the one that had been feeding her baby and her daughter had brought the baby out into the hallway and she was shot by helicopters. Winston who

08:14 downstairs in one of the back rooms had been shot also. And it was because the water tanks that we had there for storage, they had put holes in them trying to eliminate our water supply and one of the bullets had gone through the water in the tank and into his room. He was shot at that particular time and they finally found him face down in Well, the whole incident and I'm sorry. I am very sorry for your losses. The whole incident is in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. They are not to use military force against sovereign citizens of the United States of America and when that starts happening we've gone from a democracy to a socialist state

09:05 that's what happened in china and read is they roll the tank felt when people speak out against the government or they do something a little bit different uh... david koresh was probably guilty of being a big amiss but do we go out there and kill the women and children that that would have been as victims if you were going to find him guilty of being a bigger i mean this is a good point with you know it someone's right we don't murder them Well, they were always talking about helping the children, protecting the children. But their actions were actually contrary to what they said when they started in front of the building

09:50 and they were shooting every room upstairs on the second floor where I was. My room was in the back of the building, but as I walked down the corridor to come out every single window on the front side of the building had been destroyed and all the glass was inside The doors were full of holes when I went downstairs. I was amazed, the walls everything had holes in it and you know that just doesn't happen all the bullets were coming into the building not going out because especially at the door, the doors were metal

10:36 They tried to say that the door had been consumed by the fire. Then they said no, the door was missing But that door was full of holes. And that was the door that Perry Jones was standing behind and he had at least four bullets in his midsection Well there's no doubt they were trying to kill David Koresh from the beginning of the thing, they were shooting at him when he went through the door and told him to stop I'm positive it started with them trying to eliminate David. I'm sure they felt that if they get rid of David, the rest of us would collapse but you see, the message that David had been giving us would do anything but make us collapse because we knew what was going on not that we knew they were coming in not that we knew they were gonna attack us in that way but we knew there was a chance that they might come in and take the children

11:37 And this is really what we were concerned about. That is why the children were kept under surveillance by the parents and the other people in the building, even when they went into our sandbox... The sandbox that we had made for them there was always adults with them because we certainly didn't want to lose one child Okay, we're going on to the next call. Can I have another call please? Hi Mike! Hi! Hi nice to see you again. Um...Kathryn it's a pleasure and an honor to uh..see you on the show tonight Thank You And have an opportunity to talk with you We thank God that you did survive She looks like a real criminal up here don't she? I sure do

12:25 At any rate, my family and I all share your grief. We wish it hadn't been that way not only because of your loss but also because of the loss to our nation as well. We do grieve with you. I don't really have any questions, I've seen a lot of tape about the incident but...I would like it if you could tell us a little bit more about what David thought and taught? Well, David started in 81'. He came to Mount Carmel looking for a prophet he said there was always a prophet

13:16 And why in this time when people need more help than ever before, isn't there a prophet around? And he was talking to a lady up near Tila. She said oh I know where a prophet is and he said where and she said in Waco He said will you take me and that's how come he came down to Waco Lois Roden was in charge of the group at that time and he did come down and he gave she and I a five-hour study. And then, he left to went back home but he called up a little later and asked if they could come down the live and he was told why of course and he did come down He didn't have going back and forth because he was in it street evangelist at that time

14:13 And he lived in his car. He was a carpenter, a finisher and so in a few days he could make quite a good deal of money and he would do that then he'd go back because he wanted to talk to the young people who felt there was a great need there which is true. And he used to do evangelizing a long time before he ever came to us Okay, River City Talk comes to you from 9-10.30pm every Tuesday night right here on channel 16 right after Greg Erickson's show he comes on from 7-8.30 on channel 16 and we're going onto the next call

14:53 And if you want to watch part two of this exclusive for Austin, it'll be on Jeff Davis Show tomorrow night at 8.30 right here on channel 16 You'll be on the Jeff Davis show with part two of this tape and your interview That's what I understand Okay we appreciate you bypassing all the major media and coming over here to Austin Cablevision Well I've been here before That's right one time before On The Jeff Davis Show But you were on several other national shows, but they cut out what you had to say right? Some of them yes. Okay I did get on a few shows that up in the Northwest especially. I'm amazed how many people here in Austin don't know the real story about what happened at Waco are you amazed? I'm amazed that people don't know but I found people even in Waco that hadn't heard about it so It just shows that

15:49 Some people just miss things. I'm glad that i got informed on this issue because it's really enlightened me, I've had people call me all sorts of names, I've had death threats, I've had everything since we been investigating this. You will, that will be the least of it. But don't be afraid to call us on the comment line at 370-9558 We appreciate all your calls and well... but were going onto our next call they got a call check down here? Hello! Hello? Yes. Are you there? Yes, go ahead for Kathryn Madison. Well according to an Associated Press story as it appeared in the Austin American Statesman on March 1st of 1994 on page B3

16:35 the jurors at the trial of the surviving branch dividends were horrified to discover from the government's own testimony that those tanks that we watched on on tape and on our television sets were not just punching holes in the wall to insert gas they were ordered to penetrate that the that residents that was occupied with men women and children and they did penetrate a room's length or more quote-unquote and some of the children but we were told our government would fading died in this manner

17:13 thank heavens for alternative media uh... such as uh... public access t.v and also there's a an amateur network of computer bbf is and uh... the internet that it's also uh... an alternative media getting information out masses of people not yet in any other way uh... and uh... if you have a computer in a modem and you live here in austin texas uh... this is free you can call liberty pbf which is free uh... the number of four six two seventeen seventy-six and there's a message conference which is sort of like a calling show except in text uh... that is that you could access from that computer bulletin board system your the comments but you'll be looking at the comment that you will

18:09 over your computer will be seen all over the country and all over the world uh... and this is free and there's also a file area devoted to this waco issue of both them are named wake-up the message conference and the file area and the file area contains a lot of expensive reports and background research information uh... in uh... map wasn't their effort to try to get some other branched opinion on to these computer online systems a while back when they were at the hotel up there? This is the first time I ever heard of it. And, I lived at the Brittany for quite awhile

18:49 I know some folks who were eager to get her in there. They put her in jail first, yeah...I was in jail for a while. But you were found innocent of the uh.. Well they actually filed charges against me And the judge came up and told me what I was charged for, and it would be a lifetime of 100 years or 50 to 75 years. Conspiracy to murder a federal agent? Murder... conspiracy... Conspiracy to murder and conspiracy was what I was being charged with. But the very next day, it was just about 24 hours later... ...I was in the federal court and they dismissed the charges but told me that I was a witness

19:34 and that was worse because I was really under confinement then in solitary. But fortunately, the judge had talked with me and I had met a lawyer that knew the judge and between the two of them I was transported down to the lawyers' home which was very beautiful and they were very lovely people- Christian people. And I lived there over a month And nobody knew where I was. In fact, I didn't even know where I was! But you were talking about them ramming the building? When they went to ram the building they rammed every staircase and made it so bad that when David Thibodeau tried to get upstairs to see his wife and children he couldn't get upstairs

20:26 and he had to stay downstairs. Of course, at that time he really didn't know that they had been brought downstairs to be put in an area where it was safer than being upstairs on the second floor but you notice when they rammed the sides of the building, you could see the building was starting to lean and sort of collapse When they went through the very front section of the building, right where they knew that our – which happened to be our refrigeration area. They called it the bunker. When they went in there, they rammed the top of it and when they rammed the top of it was made up very heavy cement

21:16 pots of the roof fell in and crushed the children and women that were under it. And then they tried to say we had taken hammers and bashed our children. We were there to save the kids though, Catherine? Oh, of course! But anyway...is that collar gone? I guess they're gone. We're ready for another call Was David Koresh near death before the fire? Did he lose a lot of blood and was he near death? Well when he was shot, I talked with two ladies that were nurses and they told me that he had lost so much blood

21:58 that it seemed almost impossible he could replace it. When I saw him, I was called down to where he was because he wanted me to take out the 58-minute tape. I would really not have come out without that... The tape we just saw? It was an audio that was to be put on radio and he wanted you go all over the United States so people could hear it And so I finally said yes. I didn't really want to come out, but I said yes because he said I want people understand about us and I did bring it out and I gave it to the gentleman who was supposed to receive it put on air and this is when they

22:44 Fingerprinted me and put me in jail And that's why a lot of them didn't want to come out because they were they were scared that they were the same way you are. Well when I saw, people always call here and ask that and also Were they being shot at when they were coming out some of them? Well i'm not sure about the others But I know the shooting even though it had stopped after 45 minutes it still was going on in areas. Like when Mike, the man that they said was trying to leave he was trying to get back to his children and they shot him and he had four

23:22 Four shots in his back and then when he was down in the gully, face down someone came along put two bullet holes in his head which just disintegrated his face. That's terrible. You got another call on the line? Hello, welcome to River City Talk. Hi I'd like to ask the lady a question You are survivor and you saw the actual bullet holes in the roof in the ceiling? I'm having a hard time hearing but can speak up? Yes not only when I was In my room I did not find room enough to lay down in the hole with the children and the women The women were over the children to protect them

24:08 In my room, I had always thought if anyone was coming in the building they would come through the back. There was a roof under our windows in the back that was over our dining area which was a huge building – a huge room you could step from the roof into the building because it was only about three feet from the roof, where windows were. And so when the shooting even was going on I'd get up to look out and make sure no one was coming in the window because I had one of the windows in my own room and some other windows were open back there and they could easily have stepped in

24:55 One of the women that was out in the hall kept yelling at me to get down because I was going to get shot. And later, I found out the reason she was yelling that way was because the bullets were even going through her hair and when I came out and walked the length of the corridor... ...I saw all the windows shot out! The glass was on the inside not on the outside. The Venetian blinds were hanging on their side There were holes everywhere. If you remember or heard about it, one of the children that came out they were drawing having them draw pictures and all these dots are on the pictures even on the roof and they said what are the dots? And the child said oh those a bullet holes. Okay

25:47 One thing I wanted to ask was that Dick DeGaran is one of the few people from outside who actually saw this. He has a certain amount of credibility, but it doesn't seem like enough people really listened to him or believed him Well, Dick wasn't the only one that came in Jack came into Jack Zimmerman and they were both on nationwide shows And I was very impressed by both of them. How they answered and what they said, they had tried their best to make it possible for everyone to come out and be safe when they came out. Part of the problem was that people inside realized what was going on with those who did come out. Many of them would not come out

26:37 I know that many of them did not want to come out because they wanted to stay there. That was their home, it wasn't just a building or church We had meetings there and we studied the Bible continuously, but it wasn't just a church. We lived there! Do you think if this could happen to y'all up there? Do you think that could happen to Jews...to Muslim people...? It has already happened to individuals Since I have been out, I have learned many things that's been going on That I did not know while I was in there That happened before us

27:21 and that also happened after our incident. So we need to bring this to light, and also... People better become aware of what's going on! If they would just listen to both sides of the story on this issue I found people that i've talked to throughout this you know little investigation we've done since we been in contact with the Davidians and Jack DeVault and this and that That people will not listen to both sides of the story They will just listen to one side of the story And thats the ATF, the FBI and the government side. Is that what you found? Well how can you make a decision

27:57 How can you make a decision on anything if you don't know the complete story? Okay, just second sir. It's absolutely impossible to do that. Okay go right ahead sir. Hello uh what is that lady's name again? Catherine Madison. Catherine Madison. Oh did David Koresh claim to be Jesus Christ? DHS! DHS! Welcome to River City Talk I want to answer him No he did not Go ahead and answer him. If you must know, he did not ever say he was Jesus Christ! He never said it! They took his words out of context is what I was told. You know there have been so many things said that are untrue It's very hard to condorize lies Very hard because people turn what you say around

28:58 and make you say something you weren't even thinking of. If you give us a call on the comment line at 370-9558, we'll make sure that you get the real story of Waco if uh...we have to stay up all night right? We're only going to be on until 1030 but give us a call in the comment line go right ahead sir. Hello? Yes! Okay what is the real story? What's the real story? You're not getting both sides of the story If you haven't watched the show from the beginning it's kind of hard for us to sum it up in one. I saw a lot, but let me just say that I'm a student at UT. Can we turn this box up a little bit? We've got half the crew here tonight so we're working on it. There ya go! Okay, I'm a student at UT and my name is Kevin.

29:45 the ATF was pretty presumptuous in a lot of things they did. I disagree with the way they used force, for example... ...in bringing tanks in but what I'm having a hard time with when you say that we're just looking at it from one side or a lot people are is it seems as though David Koresh on the other hand tried to martyrize himself No Is it true that he had a hand in setting fire? No David, I don't have enough time to tell you things so that you will understand. Sum it up in one. But one of the things... Well who set the fire? Well I don't know. I can't say who said it. I know one thing. I know that no-one in our group said it. I know that. I have heard other reasons how it was set

30:43 And right now what I want to say was this about the suicide. That is absolutely a falsehood because if he had wanted to commit suicide, he could have done it long time ago after he was shot! When I saw him, he looked like he was going to die and I believe the reason that he made the tape that I brought out was because he thought he might die at that time He looked like he didn't have a drop of blood in his veins when I look at him And this is one reason I took the tape out. And, I thought sure that we were going to court that he would come out and they'd have him in court and we all be brought before a judge or something but didn't happen. Okay sir what do you think about how many people still in prison? We've still got political prisoners... At least eleven. Eleven Davidians who are still in prison at this time. Well yeah about 11

31:42 Because one is coming out very soon. We need to press for their release don't you think? I hope we can make it because they have so much They have made that there the amount that they owe so high That even if million point two right even if they come even they can't they have to do the 40 years from what I understand and And even if they do the 40 years and they don't pay the money that the government says they owe, They're going to be charged so many years in jail for so much money. Which would be... They'd be there forever! By the way, they were found innocent of a conspiracy to murder a federal agent Oh yes, there was no conspiracy

32:34 There was no murder that they talked about. If you have the opportunity to look at some of the tapes I've seen, you would realize there was no murder. Some of them talk about friendly fire on some of the tapes... What's friendly fire? They shot each other? Are you there sir? Hello! Yes Can you hear me Mike? Yes, we can hear you. Go right ahead I was just gonna make a statement uh... I truly believe that David Koresh is Christian and he believed in biblical

33:12 the biblical concept of the bible i think he truly absolutely reached whatever the bible teaches but this is just an example of what's going to happen to us christians we are gonna be uh... look at it as a sect of demonic beings or whatever because we believe in the lord jesus christ and I think that thats why the Lord says, be prepared to suffer. Because I think were gonna suffer alot of the same thing that David Koresh did with people who lived there at the camp uh...because profess to be christian and believe in jesus christ so it's just uh... something that they're gonna show the people that if you do professor be a christian and you believe in the lord jesus christ but this is just an example of what could happen to those people who profess to be christians. And its just a comment I wanted to make. Well there, there is a one world order coming into being and when they have the one world order fully there is going to be a religion

34:08 that everyone will be expected to go along with. And I'm sure it will not be biblical because they hate the... They go after the people that are studying the Bible. Are you there, caller? Yes, okay. Let me just make a statement here to the people in the control room running half speed tonight But we're going to go ahead and just go on straight on out And we're gonna We're not going to run the rollout and we're gonna go on until they cut us off. We got eight minutes so go right ahead Okay, am I there? Yeah you're there go ahead. Oh Do you know why this even happened yes, I do oh

34:51 There's more than one reason and I can't go into them now. Part 2 is going to be on the Jeff Davis show at 830 tomorrow night on the same channel, she'll be on that TV show The second part of the video and she's gonna be just on the last part like she is here She's gonna get into it more Let me tell him 1 thing...I don't believe this has ever been brought public But while, when we were on... We had to leave Mount Carmel for a while. And George Roden let... We let George Roden have it for awhile and he was put in jail and when he was put in jail we came back on the property. When we came back on the property he had let it run down. We found out that there was people there that were not just from jail but from prison that had been

35:42 more or less in charge of one of the huge houses that were at the back end to the camp and they had a phentamine lab there. When we finally went in after we got our own houses straightened out and all garbage out that they had left, cleaned it up, cleaned up the outside, we went up to their place and we started cleaning as we cleaned it we found evidence David called the sheriff's department and they came out. And I happened to be the one with David at the time, he put it on the hood of the car spread it out and showed them what we had found. There was some white powder there, I'm sure you've heard of that? The sheriff took his finger

36:36 putting his mouth quite fast on his tongue and then went into the powder and put it back on his tongue. And when he did that, he just scooped everything up and left very hurriedly! He didn't say one word...he didn't say thank you or anything they just left nothing was ever said about it even when George started shooting at us we had go to court Prove that the place was ours. He had allowed these people to do this He had allowed them to set up this lab he had allowed them To not only do that, but they were doing a lot of other things That we found evidence Of in this building

37:23 But that was never talked about. agent or local agent, whatever. Why didn't people just walk out of the compound and stand outside? If there was going to be some type of government murder on a bunch of people then it would have been obvious when everybody is laying their dead. I think it was very obvious

38:04 to see what happened. I just don't understand if everybody decided we're going to be fighting against an army here, why don't we just watch out? Let me ask you a question. She wants to answer your questions, sir! You're in your home with your family and all of the sudden somebody comes to your house and surrounds it and starts to fire at you are you gonna come out uh... i don't think so well i mean there was a lot of media that it would hard when me and it was but what i guess about the top of the in a place with a hundred people are so and uh... budget police drove up and told us to walk out who had been killed by a state called the law didn't tell him they started did not tell us to walk out she saw the hell has now knocking at the door have grown like white hair was no

38:55 says i don't know that way any any media salary issue would have been always white flag you know messages saying we surrender you know whatever uh... there was no attempt to just kind of they really well have you done any investigation at all on this certain time okay okay here's my second point okay if that's the best case where he could be even everything looks like that and it's all it's evident that you have the things were as bad as they work then is there not an attorney who would take your case and you could sue the government? We're doing that. Sir, we're trying to do that. Have you ever seen Constantine Wyeth?

39:35 I didn't see it until just a very short time ago. They had that right up to the windows, they couldn't have gone out the windows, they couldn't have gone out the door... You couldn't get out of there! Now they said they put it around to keep people They didn't say whether going in or coming out. I think they you couldn't get in or out of that place Ramsey Clark and a billion-dollar lawsuit sir there They are suing Ramsay Ramsey Clark and the billion dollar lawsuit That's what they got going on right? That's right tuned right here for more classics On this channel here Hanson archives but to fund this station, I'm offering

40:22 If you send us $25, we'll send you a signed copy of Bohemia Grove Cult Of Conspiracy. It was forwarded by Tex Mars that just recently passed away. Also Alex Jones has a chapter in here And you know that's good, there is us in our younger days. But on the address that you see send us $25 and we will send you a signed copy or give us a call at 830-672-3089 and you can put it on a credit card. We'll send it right out

41:04 But that's what we need to help fund this channel, folks. So help us get all the classics uploaded to YouTube We got hundreds and hundreds of old Alex Jones and Jeff Davis and a bunch other patriots that we need to upload about 25 year old tapes. I believe if you're successful with that lawsuit, everybody's eyes will be open to what really happened and they'll hear both sides of the story. Let me just say this before we go off. I wish you luck with that suit. Sir let me just say this before we go off I felt the same way you did a year ago and since i've been looking into this, uh...I found out a lot of things that does not match up with what the government's saying. But anyway go right ahead we're going to try get one more call in before I have to make an announcement hurry. Catherine thanks for being on tonight all of us here at Austin appreciate it. I think the ATF oughta crack down on all the fraternity houses where all the real drugs and fornication is going on

42:01 Okay, remember River City Talk comes to you from 9 p.m.. To 10 30 p.m.. Every Tuesday night right here on channel 16 Remember part 2 of this the real Waco Lie I guess it would be I have to make the announcements it's going to be on channel 16 on Jeff Davis show go right ahead ma'am we're gonna try to get as many calls in with you. I'm curious that, this is gonna be relating too that we heard the reports of some young girls being abused there i want know honestly what was the youngest age of a girl who had a baby with a car wreck? Okay hurry because were gonna go off air less than a minute

42:42 I'd probably say it was Rachel, who was his legal wife. And how old was she? She was about 14 I think. 14 years old, does that answer your question ma'am? That's kind of touchy though is that an okay...does everyone think that's okay or...? Well give us a call at the comment line put the comment line up there 370-9558 we'd love to hear what you have to say and well will have the questions out on The Jeff Davis Show tomorrow night Okay thanks for taking my call Alrighty thank you and we appreciate you coming on Catherine Madison a Mount Carmel survivor and uh...uh i've met quite a few

43:25 You don't want to be called Davidians, but Davidians in the last couple months and I really appreciate y'all coming on here. And exclusive video that we had tonight and part two is going to be on tomorrow night. We're off! I love Mike Hanson Archives. Get ready to run. The Waco showdown is still burning Topping tonight's news, a scene of mass destruction becomes the foundation for new beginning. Good evening I'm Kim Barnes. And I'm Bill Scott Austin volunteers are rebuilding a chapel on the side of the branch Davidian compound near Waco The compound burned down in 1993 after 51 day standoff between Davidians and federal agents Davidian leader David Koresh and about 80 followers died. KB24's Joel Thomas reports on the new plans for the property

44:14 I've known the Branch Davidians a long time and i think they're good God-fearing people. I think they were demonized. Moose served galvanized by the thought that federal government murdered The Davidians, videotaped deputies who come to hurry them along They don't trust law enforcement anymore or the media with donated materials and labor Take exit number three three nine They receive directions head to ground zero We gotta rebuild it! Waco. At the Davidian compound, the work begins even as the convoy pulls in. Plans are for a modest chapel. They're in process of digging these holes right now

45:01 We anticipate at least three months for the construction process. They build on the very site where America saw a shootout I think it's sad that a lot of people don't really care, you know what happened here Seeing the battered rubble here staggers even those who've studied The standoff as they reflect on what happens there's a sense even students of Waco Don't know the entire message It's not the same I want to live here But I need a trailer to do it and i don't have money. You would come back out here and live like that? You bet I would in a wink! Watson walks in a memorial grove, each withered tree planted for someone who died here there is still a lonely vigil for David Koresh's return A lonely feeling no one from outside of the compound can ever understand... I'll tell you when helicopters come after you

45:53 and you see them, and you hear them. And you know what they're doing." That's a entirely different story. Even so one of the workers who drove here from Austin says he feels like he is building a future tourist stop A sort of Alamo for the Branch Davidians But one of the Branch Davidians who was here tells me that's okay After all he says the only chapel they really need in heaven In Waco Joel Thomas KVU 24 News The Davidians hope to start building a compound once the chapel is complete, but right now they're still looking for volunteers to complete this project. Are largely all that remains of the branch Davidian complex where Koresh and his followers died in that horrible inferno There are headstones honoring the fallen charged shells of Davidian buses

46:39 and an old Airstream trailer crushed by government tanks. And here in these desolate killing fields, I would discover living testimony that may help unravel the mystery of Waco. They systematically took it in turns not only to spray the gas but to demolish the building. Clive Doyle is one of only nine Davidians who got out of The Blaze alive. Incredibly he's actually back living on that same property in this mobile home keeping the memory of Koresh and his doomed flock alive. Why stay? Why be so close to a reminder of what happened? Because we believe it's God's turf, you know I mean...I think it's worth fighting for Doyle managed to escape the burning compound through a hole in a wall just as it burst into flames And I'm looking down at the building and see this big ball of flame go up like an explosion and I wrote everybody else off Tragically Clive 18 year old daughter Sherry did not make out

47:34 Despite these revelations about the use of flammable tear gas canisters, the Attorney General this week still insisted the FBI did not start the fire. That fire was set by David Koresh and the people in that building But Clive Doyle and other surviving Davidians flatly deny that and say nobody should believe the government It seems like their initial reaction is to lie first And you only admit that you were lying if you get caught Such a beautiful girl. While Clive Doyle simmers, fellow Davidian Sheila Martin suffers She lost her husband and four of her children in that Holocaust It was just too much to think that they had gone like that They were smart children and they were trying to be good

48:17 Sheila had surrendered to the FBI weeks earlier on the promise that her family would also be allowed to leave safely. My children stayed and my husband stayed because they believed these men outside I call it murder, that's what i call it Catherine Madison also escaped The Davidian Complex before the fiery finale of death and destruction She like the others claimed the government deliberately set ablaze What was the reason for the fire? When they saw we weren't going to give in, they had to get rid of us. They had to get rid of us! They had to cover up everything that happened. There's always new...

48:53 Federal lies that we are forced to counter here. Texas talk radio personality Alex Jones has been crying murder and cover-up from day one of the Waco horror These are thugs who wanted to engage in terrorism against the American people, and I say their terrorism has failed And this horrendous lie is starting to unravel The surviving Davidians say the same thing That's what they do for a job as if they lie When I tell what I tell I'm telling the truth And if people accept it, fine. We just believe that God would not let the truth be hidden." And Waco keeps burning! And just today several federal prosecutors in Texas have been relieved from the case including one who had complained of quote a possible government cover-up Meanwhile surviving Davidians are hoping the new investigations will lead to the release more than a dozen other sect members from prison

49:51 Well hello folks and stay tuned for more classics here on Mike Hanson archives and our new channel Waco Archives. And don't forget our oldest channel, Mike Hanson Archives here on YouTube Stay tuned for more but make sure y'all get everybody to subscribe to Hanson Archives and the new one, Waco Archives. We're busy every day uploading more and more videos

50:29 We have hired somebody to do that and bought the equipment to do it. It's a lot of work, if you would like to help out with that situation send us $25 and I will send you my book and everything that comes in from my book will be used to fund these three channels So stay tuned right here to YouTube and Facebook. I am Mike Hanson from Gonzales, Texas on Facebook Thanks a lot and God bless.