Is A Career A Good Career Option with Dan Reed 'Career Dad'

00:00 Is a career, a good career choice? In this episode of the Team Superdad podcast I talk being a successful employee and having a work-life balance with Dan Reed aka Career Dad. Roll theme! Welcome to Team Superdad Real dads creating their best lives ever More time more money more fun You are not alone you're on team super dad Welcome dads. It's great to have you back here on the Team Superdad podcast You are with me, Jonnie Jensen Dad Coach Founder of the Team Superdad community and the Hero Academy program Welcome to this podcast episode where we are going to be talking about Being an employee, having a job

00:50 And what, when do you ever get a video that says oh yes here are the secrets to having a good career and being a good employee? You just don't really. Certainly the ones I see and maybe the algorithms are at play but the videos I get on YouTube in the ads I get on Facebook are all about creating a business all about The The

01:42 Added conversations, you know speaking to dad experts financial coaches relationship experts inspiring dads Mark Ormrod we spoke to the other week the former Royal Marine who lost two arms. I'm sorry two legs and an arm This has been if you go back and look there's been some really brilliant Conversations in The Team Superdad podcast and then of course weekly We also do The Wrap-Up which is our fun episode hour Our peer stake banter in the pub, two dads Glen and I putting the world to rights fixing the world so you don't have too. But today you are on The Value Ad not a serious one that makes it sound really boring but you're on The Value Ad podcast we're talking to Dan Reed if he's been much time over on LinkedIn you might have bumped into him as Career Dad well

02:35 That's what he is. He's a dad who loves his career and he shares with us as we chat just how he's managed to carve out a career for himself where he has that work-life balance, where he has his job on his terms and his employee or employer is okay with that. He's effective, he's successful, he's in demand, he's just moved to Adobe from Barclays which is a bank in the UK I'm sure wherever you are in the world you've heard of Adobe but Dan really tells the other side of the story, like being in a job and loving it. Married two kids top bloke we hit it off straight away even before we set press record on the podcast

03:16 And I hope you find it inspiring. You know, it can feel like quite a lot of pressure when all the messages are about quitting your job and starting your own business or finding work you like... Work in your flame follow your passion! All that sort of stuff. It can be quite intimidating for people especially if you're someone who actually enjoys their job so yeah I hope you enjoy this Wherever you are, whether you've got a career or whether you're working for yourself there is always somewhere more that you can take your life. Whether it's your family, relationships, health and fitness... And that is what the Hero Academy is all about! We are pre-registering people for the upcoming Hero Academy. If you want a taster of it, then you can come and be part of The Happy Dad 5 Day Challenge which is starting just in a couple of weeks depending on when you're listening to this there's always one coming up but actually right as I record this we've got one starting on August 16th so

04:11 Be sure not to miss that, it's a free five day challenge where we really go through five essential ways to increase the happiness in your dad life. And so come on over to... I need to shorten the link right? The podcast, sorry, The Happy Dad Challenge is join.teamsuperdad.com forward slash happy dash dad dash challenge So join.teamsuperdad.com forward slash happy dash dad dash challenge and I'm pretty sure by the time you listen to this if you just go to teamsuperdad.com forward slash happy Dad Challenge that will also work, but internet right? Digital marketing how do you do it? I say that because i worked in digital marketing for the last 20 years!

05:03 There's a career conversation we could have another day. So anyway, without further ado enjoy this conversation with Dan Reed the Career Dad and I'll see you on the other side. Dan! Hello! Good to have you here Dan Thank you so much for having me This is...I'm really looking forward to this I know Have you been the guest on other people's podcasts much? Not as much as i'd like no it's usually me in your position so I'm looking forward to having that easier job this time Yeah, well I first saw you on LinkedIn doing some of your lives. You had your LinkedIn live flipping golden ticket way before me! Who is this chancellor? Who is this guy?!

05:51 I flippin' put that form in about, 30 times. I probably sent it 30 times before I got my golden ticket! Literally did feel like Charlie Bucket! Yeah i don't know how that happened for me because they didn't get a notification either...I just filled in a form and just left it and then I went on LinkedIn on my desktop which I rarely do and it said Do you want to go live? I thought okay And there it was! Yeah, weird. Were you dressed? Exactly yeah was it an appropriate time to do so... I love that. People just click on the video and then they're going is this working? Is this working like that?! I have seen a number of tests where people just go live and it says this is a test and then yeah it's very good

06:41 That is the modern parlance, like can you hear me? Is this working? So Dan yes I saw you on LinkedIn and uh and you know the Career Dad bit obviously spoke out to...to me with the Team Superdad focus. And it's really exciting the message that you're putting out and you're bringing to this ever-growing conversation about dads because everywhere whether it's our Facebook feed or YouTube, in video ads. Start an online business! Set up a course be an e-commerce expert come on to my property thing

07:23 You never see a video that says, have a really good career and enjoy going to work. And yet thousands in fact probably the majority know what the numbers are but it's got to be at least 60-70% of people are in a career rather than starting their business. Yeah no absolutely and I think that Yeah, I mean that resonates with me right? Even with the whole Career Dad thing as something as an aside. I quite like working for someone else! And you're kind of given this message that you need to set up on your own steam and everyone wants to be a business owner...

08:08 Do I? I don't know, actually. I wanna play that game and see how high I can climb in that arena without losing a sense of me and who I am and my values but also with trying to be the best dad and husband and family belonger that I can be so yeah...I completely get it! And I think there's so much that says If you are in the corporate world, you must hate it. Therefore here is an out and here is your sales funnel." And like you can now buy pre-made sales funnels! I just think it's insane when why do we not actually ask the question? And try to support people through whatever avenue that they are in. Yeah well on the traditional idea of work

09:03 You know, it's a slog. Your boss is a nightmare and you're going to be tired. You're not gonna be appreciated. That for a lot of people is the motivation to get out and yet companies working culture is evolving so fast... It's taken bloody decades! Now it actually is yeah Yeah, it's funny because pre-pandemic the work that I'd started doing with companies with my Career Dad hat on was around flexible working. It was how do you engage people who are working remotely? How do you monitor performance? How do you look at metrics instead of 9 to 5 bum on seats measure output not time and all of these things and then COVID hit

10:00 Everyone was, well not everyone but a lot of people in companies who I were talking to then went to that operation model whether they liked it or not. So yeah definitely you know it took away one avenue that I was working on with companies but It has absolutely changed the game. And I think now what we're seeing, which is quite interesting is companies who are saying here's our new flexible working model which means you can work from home on this day and this day – it's not quite flexible working – or it's, you know, we want you all back in the office, we all want you back to work and you've got employees going well hang on what have I been doing for the last 18 months because it's not been sitting on my ass doing nothing?

10:44 And then you've got companies going, we realise the world has changed and let's have a conversation about that and see how we can move forward together. And for women it has been an evolving conversation over the last few years but I don't really get the sense that it was for men until the pandemic. Yeah, we've had some changes to paternity sort of break when our children are born but the idea of men knocking on their MD's door and saying oh yes well can we talk about some flexible time please? It was sort of like oh well that's what women get not not what they're able to ask for

11:33 Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that's been a huge problem and I think that's been a problem for everyone for men women and also kids I think that for whatever reason, over the years I've become incredibly comfortable with who I am what I stand for inside of work and out. And they're actually kind of the same person. When i first started work, the advice that I was given was you have your your work persona and your out-of-work persona and the two will never meet it's kind of that don't talk religion and politics at And that never resonated with me. I find it really, really hard so i thought... ...I'm actually going to bring my life into work and I'm gonna bring my work into life because they're both important and I need them to be fluid to operate in the best way that I can What that led to when I became a dad was one of the phrases that I like is to leave loudly So when I was going- When I wasn't in office and I was going to pick up my son at school at three o'clock

12:36 I'd stand up and say, I'm going to pick my son up from school. I'm on the phone if you need me and I'll be back online later this evening. And regardless... I mean, I obviously was doing that. But even if I wasn't sometimes I feel like I just want to say that you know... I had a bit of a side tangent that i'm happy to talk about. I had therapy a few years ago for a number of months and it was always on a Friday afternoon at 11 o'clock and I'd be in the office and I'd say I'm going to therapy now! And it wasn't like how, you know, an oversharing type thing. It was just to try and normalize some of this stuff um and I think

13:16 I think what COVID and the pandemic has done is probably normalised that dads and men want to, and are able to be involved in their family and their kids' lives. And also to work And so I think that, yeah it's moved that conversation away from being a mum thing and a female thing to being an everyone thing. I think the thing that i'd like to move it on from again is it being a parent thing you know if I was in my early 20s and I wanted to go to the gym before work and the gym was quiet at nine and I wanted to get in at 11 and then stay till eight or whatever then let's do that! Let's

13:53 Let's just move away from this conception of 9 to 5 being a thing when actually company profit and loss measurement and KPIs, they all measure output. They all measure something happening and that is never related to a physical time at a physical place. Well, and it's an interesting conversation about responsibility and goals and output and performance that thinking back to my early stages of my career were never really talked about. It was just come in sit down work try and like by osmosis work out what your boss is doing so you can end up doing it yeah and if all of us are being

14:44 If we can get measured on performance and attitude, and how we show up when we show up then it gives everyone a greater platform to show their talents into mold themselves into a job than just sit there and get on with it in hope for the best. It's actually quite exciting work I think this is the thing and it really democratizes geography as well, like where people live and work from. So I live in Northampton when I was at Barclays there is a huge Northampton office so I'd spend two days in the Northampton office two days in the Canary Wharf office and a day from home would be my usual thing

15:27 But when I started, I was 100% in the Northampton office and I quickly learned that if I wanted to progress rightly or wrongly. I had to have a physical seat at the table and that table was in London so I had to split my time And I was lucky enough that I could afford to do that, or not. I had the support around me for the time to you know two hours each way like a four hour commute as opposed to 20 minutes into but Now that's not as needed. You could be in Manchester and have a seat at the table with the London people, and it doesn't matter. And I think it brings more voice and more diversity to the conversations, and I think it makes companies richer. So I think that's a fantastic thing that I hope just isn't lost as soon as the doors open back up and we all scramble to return to an office. Yeah totally! Wow...

16:27 I could end up talking about that for hours. The mind boggles at the idea that someone amazing is living in North Wales and thinking, oh, I don't want to go back to London but I want to have a career. You know the pressures that could put on themselves mentally, the pressure they can put on their relationship... Yeah Wow No absolutely And a little question about fatherhood for you, because you mentioned earlier about what work means for you. What does fatherhood mean for you and your role in that as far as your family goes?

17:09 Yeah, and again I'll try not to talk about this for 45 minutes so do cut me off. But yeah i think it's probably before I answer that is worth giving kind of like a two minute history because I think that will help us as to where I've arrived too So my parents divorced when I was quite young and so I was seven or eight And even up until that, my dad was the really stereotypical career-driven dad. So even when they were together he wasn't really about... and then obviously at a young age I went to see him every other weekend and it was still kind of work focused sometimes. I'm thinking about this of the day actually! Sometimes i would

17:53 spend the evening with his girlfriend and their friend to like have like a take as, like, a 10 year old kid because I'm assuming he was working. I don't know So what that led to is... As i got older probably mid-teens, I knew that I wanted to have a family. I knew I wanted to get married and I wanted to have kids Which is a weird thing for like, a 14-15 year old boy to have so solidly in their mind. And I knew that I wanted to try and provide that environment that I didn't have

18:32 Now, I was then a really wayward teen and an adolescent so it definitely wasn't living a lifestyle that then supported that vision that I wanted. But then I was also quite fortunate in that I met my now wife at university we had our ups and downs as i'm sure everyone does but you know by the time university ended We'd started dating again and then we got together, got engaged, got married. And that was 10 plus years ago so that's cool! So I've got two kids...so i've got a son who is just coming up to being seven and a daughter who is two in a couple of weeks. When I had my son

19:21 I really struggled with that because, at the point, I was in my mid-twenties and I was forging this career. And I'd never been career focused! My two choices were...I went to university not because I wanted to but because my parents told me I was going so I just drank for three years and scraped by. What did you study? English and American. So again, I wanted to go into sales right? I just wanted to leave sixth form at 18 and going into sales and that was gonna be me And it was no you're going to university so I thought okay I am naturally

20:00 I'm not quite good at English without putting in very much effort at all, so i am going to do three years of that and take all the creative writing courses. All of the film into novel courses and I just gonna coast for three years! And that's what I did And I got a tutu, and also the English degree had six hours of contact time which meant that the rest of the week was just my own. So that was fab! My university's career story journey is almost identical. I got my A-level results, and I can picture this moment clearly in my mind of my dad and me standing outside the Mid Kent College,

20:50 Well, I've got no bloody money and there's no bloody jobs. You should get yourself off to university and have a good time! There you go! That was my ticket to write 1990s. Three. Wow, so yeah I mean so then I came out the other side and thankfully then you know got... Yeah so it was do I work in retail as like a sales assistant and basically just continue getting drunk and partying and just having enough to pay some rent in a one-bedroom flat somewhere? Is that my life?!

21:32 Or do I do something else? And it really could have gone either way. Then, you know, I did then think oh i'll get a proper job and I went back to university after having a year of kind of office experience and did a master's applied the work ethic to that got first and thought actually I am capable if I apply so then I applied in the workspace and started getting promoted in kind of the corporate career at the same time that my son came along And I really struggled because I selfishly wanted to keep pushing my career forward. But what that meant was more time in London, some international travel going for drinks with my bosses after work to hear about the new projects and to build those relationships and then I found that I was spending less time with my family but my wife was kind of becoming a bit

22:29 I was a weekday single mum because I was out the house at 6am and sometimes came back at 8pm. And it was hard because I was choosing to be an absent father, because I was pushing my career forward. What that led to was a huge amount of guilt and anxiety Being about to leave, trying to leave the office at four o'clock so I could get an earlier train home and then missing the train and feeling panic. Like stress! It's real stress And having a friend then say hey Dan, I've not seen you for like three weeks Do you want to go for a drink? At the weekend...and i'm like I can't even bring this up with my wife because that selfish me time

23:20 And so that I really struggled with that. And then that leads on to kind of the therapy stuff, but then helps me through the other side of that. But off of the back of that, that's kind of where Career Dad came about because I wanted to have a career selfishly But I also wanted to be present for my family and I thought, I wanted to provide that environment that i didn't have growing up. And I'm not because I'm providing it financially but I kind of had that growing up from my dad's side anyway so actually what am I doing? It was really really hard

24:02 It was a struggle. I talk about this thing called the guilt wheel, which I think kind of resonates with me and it might resonate with you in terms of, you know, I am man, I need to provide so by provision, I equate that to financial stability, which means I'm going to work really hard And get that financial stability. And then my wife or partner who says, I never see you and why are you not about? And I'm thinking but I'm doing this for you! I'm doing this for us and so then i start to feel a bit of resentment as well anger. I'm busting my gut here

24:42 And so obviously I don't have that conversation, I just internalize it and think well actually i'm feeling like a bit of failure at this side of my life but im getting promoted and doing really well on this side of my life. So let's double down on this work harder get more money and it just becomes you know a self fulfilling prophecy And where I'd got to in that stage of the life cycle, thankfully. The same friend who said, I never really see you he called me out on it and he said how much provision do you need? Yeah, that's... who am I doing this for anyway? And when i realized that i was doing it for us as a family but i was also selfishly doing it for me. It almost broke this image in my head and i thought i can't say to my wife i'm going for a beer with the boss after work but i'm doing it for you

25:37 And then realizing that actually I enjoy work, I enjoy all of those things. And that really helped as a say shatter that kind of internal glass and be able to then move forward in a way where I didn't have that guilt and I didn't have the anxiety and I could have those open conversations and you know covering summarizing the last kind of seven years here but now i'm in a space where it's just so much better and everyone is so much happier Yeah, and the word happy. Happiness, being happy feeling happy having happiness it's you know I've read books on it

26:19 I've been on seminars on it. There is a science around happiness and there is an impact in our mental health if we don't have it, we feel like its something that we should just find at the weekend or find it at the evening but it actually does come from and alignment with our values. If you're thinking, oh I'm going to be happy at work but then you coming home and you know that your relationship's not working and you know that you're feeling resentment towards her but you love her and you put a smile on but underneath it is this is not in or happy then it eats away like a lack of it eats away our mental health then that's gonna impact on performance

27:07 It's quickly a vicious circle, which I see so many dads then try to cover that up with spending money going out drinking partying having a holiday buying a new car. If you wrote all these things down it's like a complicated mess and what I took from what you just said was actually the other version of that is If I had none of this, where would we be? What would we be like? Oh! I'd be happy. I'd let my wife or my kid... How much money do we actually need? Do we...? Well if you lost all of this, would we be okay yet and yeah Would we be together yet that's when it comes down to what's important

27:52 Yeah, and you know what's really interesting about that is I caught up with... so my first job after university. I caught up with someone I used to work with there who I kind of saw as a bit of a mentor and I haven't seen him in 10 plus years! And we had a beer the other night And we were talking about this and he says, you know the thing is you always no matter what you earn. You always spend up to what you earn and that's why you see people who have very good salaries and very good incomes but they kind of live off credit And I said, I don't kind of want to proclaim to be the exception to the rule. But one of the things that I did very early on is there was a point in time where I was earning not enough to just cover rent and stuff and it was hard you'd get to the end of the month then you have six pounds in your account and that was

28:42 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Dan Reed, Career Dad I've kind of lived

29:23 As if we haven't ever really gone above that. So no matter what salary I've earned over the last few years, I take it to the point where I have this almost take-home mentality of like £2400 or whatever it is and anything above that...I just put it away! I don't need it and so that's then meant when we've come to want a move house and we got bigger deposits then we can pay not as much of mortgage all these things But it's also helped with that mentality of, do I need this thing? Because actually... yeah. Do I actually want to get the new iPhone? Is any better than mine or can I keep what i've got and yes if we want to go on holiday do we want to go on this £15 000 holiday or do you want to go in this four thousand pound holiday

30:10 And I think that kind of mentality has really helped not to just overstretch and be like, because that's my...I've got a really addictive personality. And I very- I really enjoy the chase more than arriving at the destination with everything and that's why pre my marriage, a lot of relationships didn't work. I moved jobs a lot I just wanted that chase and that also came in the form of buying things. So, I'd have to buy the latest thing and do all that." And it was actually my wife who she said to me... She's like look instead of buying the thing and then regretting it, I want you to save a nominal £10 a month, £20 a month put it to one side and if you still want that thing whether it be £60... If you still want that thing when you've saved for it then get it! Do what you want

31:04 That was a game changer because, you know I'd save up a few hundred quid that would take me about a year despite... You know i've got this disposable income but no no that's not for that. I'm going to save this 200 quid do I want to buy that xbox? That's gonna sit there and I'm not gonna play it! I don't think I do and just that change in mentality then really helped applying to relationships and work and yeah it was I think that was probably one of the biggest things that has impacted. Yeah wow That is just not talk. And I've read it in books, you know whether it's the Philistine Prophecy or Rich Dad Poor Dad or any other books on personal finance and wealth creation even Darren Hardy's Compound Leverage

31:50 Book is about those incremental steps or the incremental money that you save and what that builds up to. But it's a completely different mind shift than what we're taught by marketing messages, bank accounts and credit cards. Absolutely! Given the industry I've come from right? I've just spent 8 years in financial services which is... How can we help you live your dream of tomorrow today? So that ethos This is an important message for dads, is that there's a level of responsibility here. I talk about taking control of your life and I've come across or have received some flack from that

32:32 around people who love to grab hold of the toxic masculinity flipping flag. And I'm saying, I don't mean control like coercive control over everything. We're talking about a strength of purpose and a clarity of vision where you can take steps and actions to boldly lead. Now does that mean that the woman can't do that? Well maybe 100 years ago but not today right so when your wife says to you Because she is maybe, and I'm just putting this out as a label but it occurs that she was the one that was more financially careful or astute. And so she's leading you in that regard?

33:12 You're comfortable enough in your masculinity to take that on and learn from it, and still go out and lead your family. Making changes in your work which are based on your values and your confidence and commitment around things which if we're not In control of these things, like we're just money's just flying out the window and we're working late. We're feeling guilty. We're not talking to our boss and we're not talking to our wife and we're not seeing our friends and we're feeling more guilty it just shuts down shuts down shuts down compared to taking steps to take control having the confidence of a bank account that's got an emergency funding having

33:51 Things that you've bought that you knew were worth it. I mean, see in the background of the picture podcast listeners won't hear this but you got a Peloton jumper on and a Peloton bike. That's not a small financial commitment but it is a commitment to your health and fitness It's a commitment to your relationship Whilst that seems like a very loose link from those two subjects, it is about taking control deciding what's worth it and creating it so that it fits this life that you've painted the picture for. Yeah and it's so funny there are so many things that you've mentioned there I could go down on little avenues on but even starting with my wife she has always been more sensible with kind of everything

34:42 I'm a very heart on my sleeve, say it as it is. You know just want to you know very open book and that is how I have lived with money with emotion with everything and she's not reserved in kind of like the traditional kind of English sense but she's more She takes stock of what's going on and then will address something once she's got more in. Her degree was in law, right? So that's her trade and that's how she kind of operates. And it is interesting because

35:21 I have, she has instilled even just different ethics into me. Just even little things like if i would have found a fiver on the floor that's floor money that's mine and that is not how she lives She's like well that's not yours so you need to either give it to a charity or you need to... You know? I go and buy five pound scratch cards Like that's mine! That's you know the universe rewarding me And now I absolutely wouldn't. And if I see like a pound on the floor or whatever it is, I have to do something with it that is not for me. Now you can get into this whole question of well, It's given me a feeling of good and a sense and therefore I don't want to go down that route but I cannot financially benefit from that

36:10 When you're talking about, you know having being comfortable enough in myself to let someone else influence me and not be another man. I think absolutely like that's what we're all taught to try and do at work build up a team around you made up of different people and all of that So that's quite interesting and I think when you're talking around that financial security, yes i've got Pelleton in the background. I look like a brand ambassador but whether it is money flying out the door and not having control of that... The thing that I found hardest to control or justify control was time for me How do I make time for me when I'm spending so much of my time doing work?

36:56 And so much out of work time, still doing work. You know I stopped going to the gym because I couldn't justify the travel time there and back so therefore i stopped exercising and that gets to a really dangerous place Getting to a place where realizing I'm the bottom of this totem pole and there are chips and cracks, and if i don't focus on that. I can't be the best support for this totem pole that is my family has been a game changer you know? I play golf nearly every weekend and people say to me Dan you have two kids how are you out playing golf

37:34 Every weekend. That's my time and I've had to have conversations with my son, particularly when he was a little bit younger He'd be crying at the door saying you're always playing golf You never have time for me Papa And I have to not react to that and say two things We've just played Minecraft for 2 hours so you can't say that I don't have time for you But also this...I love YOU I also love this, and I want him to either subconsciously or consciously see that I am doing something that I love that actually doesn't hurt him because I want him to do the same. I don't want him to feel he has to do things as he grows up to please other people and

38:19 Now he's a little bit older that has manifested, you know. He will do things that he wants to do and I'll say oh your nan is on the phone will you say hello? Sometimes they'll say no And I'll have to go, that's okay because i can force him to do it but then I'm no better than telling him the opposite of what I'm trying to teach. So I know that's a real roundabout but um right just the point was just we need to as dads and men get more comfortable with looking after ourselves and making purposeful time for ourselves and not be ashamed of that absolutely

39:03 I've changed the name of it because the SEO and people searching stuff, but it's called the Work-Life Balance Calculator. It started just as the balance versus burnout calculator which is much more realistic of what it is because I don't like work life balance. A lot of semantics but I like to say you need life balance yeah The balance versus burnout calculator. And then at the bottom, and people can get hold of this. If they go to teamsuperdad.com forward slash group you'll come into the Team Super Dad world and you can get all these resources but it's inside of family and you time that the magic number is it needs to be 25%.

40:10 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Dan Reed, Career Dad If it's all like, oh well I've only got this amount of time. Got to give it to the kids and I've gotta give it to her exactly like you're saying if they are not fit, if you haven't sat down and read or you haven't done a meditation, you haven't journaled whatever the U-time is done with gardening whatever your U-time is for you You end up literally pissed off resentful exhausted which is aka burnout

40:47 Yes, and I think as well if you then try and take that me time or you time but your don't make the proper time for it. You're just trying to fit in against other things This might just be me, but you feel guilty about taking that time and not doing other things that need to be done. Whether that just be the laundry or whatever it is. And interestingly with the whole Career Dad thing about half of the audience are women and mums and they're like I'm getting insight into my husband's kind of life! One of the questions I get a lot from mums when I talk about give dad's time...the gift of time

41:30 And they say, oh my husband will never take that. He'll never ask for that and I'll say no he won't and it's about giving it Without an agenda or making it about the mum or the woman. So for example, I said to one of the women If you recognize this in your husband why don't you say to him Do you know what? I really want a night with the girls Or I really want to watch This Netflix series In The Bath With A Glass Of Wine For An Hour I just really want that me time And and the husband most likely would say absolutely whatever you need

42:08 And then flip it around and say, what would you like? This is what I want. I'm going to take this time for me. What would you like for you? And that can start to help... Oh actually yeah maybe i'd like to go for a run or just exercise! Not even read a book and I think that if we can start to do those things It'll just really help everyone, like you say happier. Just be a bit more happier Yeah Dan when I coach dads one-on-one and we do this in the groups as well You know when I'm working one on one I get to ask the specific question week in week out Right what did you do for yourself this week? Well how did you reward yourself and those first weeks are like oh What'd you mean? Oh, no, I can't do that. They're so out of the habit

42:55 The And that's why I've got that bike behind me because, well actually i've got a gym membership. It takes me 20 minutes to get there then I've gotta get changed and then I've gotta shower there You know? I've got an hour of dead time before actually doing anything whereas actually... I'm an early riser anyway! Don't know where that came from Probably kids because it definitely wasn't the case when I was younger But I'll get up at 630 and you know what? I could do upto an hour on that and still have a shower

43:31 And then get the kids ready for school. And that's my time and sometimes, my son does kind of walk in and he wants to have a chat with me and I have to go...I need to talk to you about this later because i can't. So yeah it's so you know I think it's finding is taking that time unashamedly But it's getting comfortable doing that. And I think when exactly as you say, when you're talking to these guys who cannot even comprehend that for them to think of being in a place of non-comprehension to doing something for themselves is too big a leap and is how do you

44:10 Connect those dots, I guess isn't it? Well the important thing to say on that before i ask you about how to approach your boss To get the kind of flexible time and But an important part... I've lost my train of thought completely Around connecting the dots was my thing. How did you...? Yeah go on There we go. It might come back? Might come back, yeah! Either that or I'll get dementia. Isn't funny for some people but... I tell you what, before we have done though in this conversation You've just ruined me ever finding money Sorry about that! I found two pounds out by Tesco's last night and it's there right in front of me

45:09 I used to work at McDonald's sweeping up the floor and once I swept up a 20 pound note which was late 90s, I kept that. That was not you know so this isn't something that is deep-rooted within it. I've definitely learnt or been taught should i say over the years. The point has come back around connecting the dots. You know dads that go to the pub too much whatever too much might look like or play golf too much

45:58 Their uncomfortableness in being okay with doing it is that they already know they're doing it too much. Or they know that they're not giving their wife the time she deserves, or they're not... Doing some putting the washing out or helping out. Yeah, yeah we on The Wrap Up which is the other podcast with the Friday though the Monday now is the episode We do inside The Team 2 Player Podcast called The Wrap-Up it's where Glenn and I and we literally wrap up our week you might want to come on one week or another we just talk crap for each other take the piss topical and yeah It's like dads

46:36 If you're not ironing your shirts, then we've got to talk. And that might mean that actually she doesn't like cleaning the bathroom and you don't like ironing it okay great but if you're not doing enough around the house... It's not about what she does for work or not does for work in a working relationship That you should be supporting each other to the degree that one of you whose hobby is play golf two hours a week, that's completely okay and even better than that is celebrated because they know when you come home. You're a better version of yourself for doing that and your relationship is better. Exactly! And I spend my father-in-law or mother in law... My mother-in-law in particular thinks I'm some sort of superhero

47:26 Dan, The answer to that or the reality check for people around that is, when you're divorced you're going have to wash your hands. Or you are going have to clean. So don't think this is her job because when... and it cuts both ways right? But when neither of you had enough of the other then you are gonna have to do all those things that you didn't think needed to be done.

48:23 So look, an important part of this conversation is... the way I'm going to ask actually makes it perfect that we can cut it out as a as an individual piece of training for the Team Superdad crew. But it's around approach because we've talked very much about being a dad having a structure at home that supports this clear on the values that you want but then taking that to your boss And yeah, some people are going to think if I go and ask for this and no one else does then they're gonna think i'm the weakest link or what if I go it's a really uncomfortable conversation they say no like there's that there's a whole load of possible answers. Maybe only one like that they're gonna say yes so I can imagine a lot of men and women asking for flexible time I guess um They think oh well I'm not gonna risk asking

49:16 So we know that in the world we live in today, it's definitely worth that risk. But how does someone approach that conversation and how should they be asking so they get a win-win for their company? Good for them? Absolutely! A couple of things I think firstly If you're asking for a flexible working request, there's generally two ways of doing that within organizations. There is a very formalized route which is change to contract and then there's an informal route and I think it's worth figuring out do you want to formally change your contracts to a four-day working week or compressed hours or whatever it is? Or are you just looking for some flexibility

50:03 I think it depends on which route you want to go. I've always gone down the informal route because I actually think that going down the formal route isn't actually flexibility, it's just a different working pattern and what I've always wanted is true flexibility So how to approach informal flexibility and let's say what does that look like? That looks like I want to go to my kids' sports days, I want to be able to take them to the dentist. Now we're working from home when they get home at half three, I want to take half an hour out and hang out with them and then go back to work later. How do you approach that?

50:47 And I think there's two things, and two things that i've done. The first is when I've been established in my role and I've had a new boss the conversation that I've had is this is how I like to work and this is how I operate and it works really well for me so about four years ago I was in a team I had a new boss come in, a new managing director I take a really fluid approach to work and what that means by that is as long as i'm happy, and you're happy, and the stakeholders are happy, and i'm hitting my targets. I don't really care where or how the work gets done as long as it gets done in the right way

51:29 What are your thoughts on that? And her view was, crack on. That sounds great and then I continue doing what i'm doing and build up that authority and then no one really cares where you are at what time because they know that you can deliver so that's one way and that's when you are established in someone new is coming in if you are the new person going again and you want to address that or maybe You're both established and you want to change the dynamic I think a test is always great and particularly, you know, a lot of buzzwords at the moment are around agile mentality and you know test-and-learn. And don't just treat that to work and projects but ourselves so again something that i've done is i said i want to change this

52:14 This was when I wasn't really allowed to work from home. I want to do a trial of working from home, a day a week. I don't want it to be a set day a week. I just want that flexibility and we're going to measure it. We're gonna measure... And I put like a little survey together for me and the little team that was some qualitative stuff around feelings I asked them, what are we looking for in terms of goals and happiness? And you know, are we fun to work with because I went out some of our stakeholders as well. And some quantitative things or how much work were getting through out projects that were getting delivered quicker and all that. And I said, I want a trial it for a month on. I wanna see what happens. And if it works then why would we not just carry on anyway?

53:03 I've found that coming at it with that approach when someone is a bit more resistant just helps because who can say no, I don't want to find out if there's a better way of doing things. And so that's really, really worked for me. And then as I said now that I'm in a position where at Barclays was running an area running teams and on that senior leadership team then it's for me to set an example for others and say this is what I'm doing and you know I'm still getting the good ratings, I'm still getting the promotions and I'm still not sat somewhere nine-to-five because it's just not how I work

53:44 Yeah, and going into your new job you've obviously had to have that conversation with a new input before you were offered as an interviewee or candidate saying I'm really brilliant but by the way i'm only prepared if it looks like this. Yeah, and you know what? And that was a real position of power because I didn't leave Barclays because of anything that I was just like, I'm done with this. I've got to leave! I was really enjoying my job and that team so when Adobe came

54:21 I said, this is who you get. Yes you get someone who can do all these technical things pretty good with people the roles around a technical role and relationship management so fantastic! I'm a good fit You also get Dan Reed Career Dad and this is stuff I talk about I like to go on podcasts I like to do all of these things And also the way that I work is very, very fluid. And their response was fantastic! We want you as an individual and that's how we treat all of our employees So I get that there are going to be things that go in my diary especially the role i'm doing is an international role it's an American company There are things that I am probably going to be on calls with California at 9 or 10 o'clock at night...in the UK

55:09 And that's okay, because that means that I might take my son for a leisurely ice cream when he finishes school. And that's okay! So i think it's just about having that... you know, It's not saying here are my demands, it's saying I work best in this environment and I want to give you my best and I want to be the best I can be so why don't we just see what happens? Yeah You just encapsulated there, goes back to the top of the conversation about values. About what you want out of life? About how you want your relationship to go? I mean...I can just...now I see in the positive, in the dads who are part of Team Superdad and the friends I've got whose relationships work

56:00 It's it, you know they're like unicorns aren't they? And then how do you do that? And the secrets to success aren't that secret. They say well we make time for each other, we communicate with... We don't hold grudges. We are really clear on both each others goals but our shared goals our values are aligned which sounds a bit stuffy for relationship and a bit boring but if you're going to stick together and you're gonna make it work and you're gonna be excited about being together those things are important But then if on an individual level, if you're going to feel like your life's working and if you're going to be excited about what you're doing. If you're gonna have a confidence in each and every situation then being that person all over the place with your wife with your job with your kids means that you show up like that

56:48 And that might sound a bit ethereal to some people listening to this, but bring it back down to basics. It's about when you're not being yourself and you're not pulling what we want towards you, You become depressed, you become really low...you think life is crap But when you are being the person you want to be and you're making everything work like I said positive masculinity then the response is wonderful Yeah, and you know you've touched on something there that is so important because again with the influence that I had growing up particularly from my dad was work was a thing that you go and put on your work face. And then you do work and then you can go home and be the jokey cat or whatever you want to be but work is a serious thing! That's how even at the start of Barclays, that's how I was. It's only when I started to loosen up

57:40 And I thought, this is too hard. I'm actually just going to be myself and that is a bit of a joker and I talk too much and I talk too loud. The first feedback that I got at Barclays from a colleague was Dan spends half an hour talking to someone where it only needs five minutes And my comeback was, but I'm building relationships. Like that's what I'm doing and when i allowed myself to be me not only did people see oh actually that guy is a bit different but he still getting the job done and people seem to like him so let's You know, let's work with him. But also I stopped having to pretend and it was such a mental drain to not be my whole self and you don't have to remember who you said to what and how you've been with such-and-such a person because you've just been you! And then you can't get caught out... and i see so many people who are they manage upwards right? They are asserting someone to their superiors and someone different someone else and then you get those two people in the room with the

58:43 That's a beautiful way to bring us up to the end of the conversation, Dan. What's your career, Dad? I think I shared it. You know, put it up on the screen now actually if you haven't done that already. CareerDad.co.uk and you can search up Dan's podcast as well on all the favourite podcast channels. Just finally what would be your encouragement to

59:36 To someone who's struggling juggling their career and their family, you know it's a silly question perhaps but is there something that you say regularly on your podcast as encouragement to people? Yeah I think I'm a huge, huge fan of internal validation over external validation. And what I mean by that is there's a number of people I talk to who say they don't think they've got the right work-life balance and when you dig into it it's actually their happy and their family's happy but their sisters' friends', boyfriend thinks that they work too much

1:00:17 The first thing is actually, is there a problem? Or are you just hearing the societal expectation that your internalizing as a problem. Is the first thing if that actually is a problem and you think You're just not happy with whatever the setup is. I'd just say talk about it, just figure out why that is and talk about it either with your friends or with your partner or with me or with you or just talk about what you feel the problem is and where you think it's going wrong And you'll either come to realize that it isn't and you'll become happier with that, or you will be able to pinpoint pretty quickly as to what the problem is. The hard bit is do you want to do something about it? That's where I'd say comes down too if there's one hard thing and another hard thing, it's just picking which hard you want.

1:01:12 Go with the flow, roll with the punches. It's more painful to do nothing than it is to take a risk and do something. Absolutely! Awesome. Well, Dan thanks so much for coming on and spending this time and sharing your wisdom. Podcast listeners be sure to subscribe to the Team Superdad podcast so you never miss out we'll be back on the weekend with with the wrap-up which is like I said Glenn and I's Car crash through our... through the week that was. And actually I've got some great guests lined up for the podcast who you'll see on upcoming shows If you're watching live or on the replay then by all means please give us a hashtag, Live or Replay and be sure to share this livestream Thank You Dan, all the better! Thank you thanks so much for having me I've loved it

1:02:15 Welcome back. I hope you love that, like I said Dan and I hit it off as soon as we met and i really enjoyed that conversation with him as I hope you did too be sure to share this podcast with anyone who you know who's Dan talks about their career with frustration and stress but doesn't really want to work for themselves. You know, Dan is an inspiration in that regard. And also you know any dads that you're speaking to are feeling like their life just isn't quite how they want it to be then come on over and join the Team Superdad community and indeed pre-register for What am I talking about? For the Hero Academy. Yes, you can go to join dot team super dad dot com for that or you can take part in the Happy Dad Challenge which we've got coming up as well which is at teamsuperdad.com forward slash happy dad challenge

1:03:07 Whatever you need, we've got it here for you. If you can't find anything then just message me Jonnie Jensen, Team Superdad Google will get you there okay and I look forward to welcoming you into the group having you be part of our awesome community and helping you create the life you desire for yourself, for your family And like I guess further for the world as well You know We need motivated men, men who are up to stuff. Men who are confident in their masculinity having fun creating strong families creating families of the future The world's a bit messed up as far as masculinity and family goes Thankfully there is a growing army of men, coaches modern dads who are really putting a stake in the ground

1:04:01 To hell with the past, yes to equality but also This is what being a modern man looks like. We do have a voice, we do have a part to play in our children's lives and our relationships in being leaders and having the confidence to do that alongside strong women inside our happy relationships and inside families that are thriving Like I said if that message resonates with you then come on over and be part of the work we're doing at Team Superdad just go to teamsuperdad.com forward slash group And I will welcome you into the community That's it, I'll see you on the wrap-up and on a further Team Superdad podcast where we give you lessons tips encouragements on being the best man you can be and the dad that your family needs. Team Superdad out! Bye

1:04:53 This has been Team Superdad. Find us at teamsuperdad.com Join the program and create the best life ever for you and your children You are not alone! You're on Team Superdad