How To Use The Power Of Your Network with Andy Lopata

00:00 In this episode of the Team Superdab podcast, I talk to Andy Lopata on the power of an awesome network and how to use it to be more successful. Roll theme! Welcome to Team Superdad. Real dads creating their best lives ever, more time more money more fun you are not alone your on team super dad welcome back to the team super dad podcast I'm Jonnie Jensen your host and founder of the team super dad community it's great to have you back This week we're talking to another guest, Andy Lopata is in my network and we talked to him about the power of your network. How to create one and how to get the most from it? And he's a bit of a dude really. He is... In some circles he's known as like The Super Connector but increasingly his work he talks about you know really not just how to create a powerful network but why you need it

01:02 A valuable person, how to be respected and how to use that really. Not just for your own gain like a selfish gain but when you're being awesome with other people then it reflects back on you so Andy's a really cool guy and great to have him on the podcast if you're a dad listening to this for the first time or man he might even be a mum but welcome! Welcome whatever whether its... get my words out Jonnie Whether it's your first time or whether you're coming back, it's great to have you here. Of course we would love for you to come over to Apple Podcasts or any reviews where you can leave a review on your preferred podcast platform then we'd love to get one!

01:44 Good or bad, it's great feedback. Do you know if you're going to give something bad though maybe send in a message how about that let me know but I know the the it's not easy actually doing a podcast finding the guests making it work and then you sat there doing it thinking is this any good which which I'm pretty confident that my The bit that I do is good, but i'm not always certain about how fun it is and that's despite my best efforts. You know you ask someone a question and then you've got no control over what they're going to say... And i'm also aware there are hundreds if not millions So many podcasts have got interview formats. I do enjoy doing them, but i'm working on pulling together a regular group of dads to come on and basically be like the co-hosts on the subjects that we focus on in Team Superdad, the F5 I call them fitness focus family finances and fun so

02:40 If you are someone who's an expert in those areas, someone who wants to come on a podcast maybe you've got your own podcast or you listen to another podcast and think that would be a good person to team up with Jonnie then put me in touch with them. And I'd love to explore that further with you same as if you have got an idea for guest then by all means let me have it! You know people that The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Andy Lopata,

03:21 All night, three or four times a week. How does that work? I'm pretty sure there's some divorces in amongst that circle but you know maybe someone has been very successful at keeping their family together so i'm working on my network to pull some of these people out Olympians, adventurers Just also normal dads, you know. It's great to hear from these crazy famous You know authors or influencers and whatnot But I know as well there's something inspirational about sorry that's my phone Let me turn it off There's something inspirational about everyday dads who are achieving the things that we all want to achieve So that could be you as well If you've got a cool story to share then then ping me a message and we'll get you on

04:09 So without further ado, as I mentioned my own network let's talk to Andy hear his interview and i'll see you on the other side. I look forward to it Cheers Good evening, welcome to the Team Superdad podcast. My name is Jonnie Jensen as always. Welcome to dads all over the world and mums as well I know that there are plenty of men and women tuning into the Team Superdad podcast it's a real pleasure to have you here as always and also with our guest this evening Andy hello to sir how are you? I'm very well how are you Jonnie? I'm very well too thank you very well uh this is part of the F5 of Team Super Dad

04:52 The You know, what could be more important than actually the relationships we have with those people? And so Andy and I are recently connected through a mastermind that we're on. So it's a pleasure to meet you through that. I think it's always important to share those things because it's an example for other people to follow themselves And then when you launched and posted about your new book going up on Amazon, I raced in and grabbed it at the launch prize. So thank you! I got a double whammy of benefits there. I got all the awesome content for 99p so kudos to you on the success of that.

05:41 Went straight in on that day's sort of bestsellers and popular that day. So when you publish on Amazon, you pick up to three categories for the book and for the three categories on amazon.co.uk we were number one new release in terms of sales for two or three days. Yeah yeah. Two are the categories and number two in one of them uh on dot com so in America we got to number three And Any sense of achievement like that is worth striving for and there's ways of doing it. And you can leverage your network or leverage your connections as we're going to be talking about tonight, but most importantly, you've got get off your ass write the book and put it out there on so many levels that is a massive success. So I acknowledge you for that

06:43 This is not your first book though, is it? No this is my fourth. And in fact you know you talk about leveraging the network with my second book we were I think we were the first authors to do what was called an Amazon bestseller plan and publishers actually bought a book out based on it called The Amazon Bestseller Plan and we got to number two overall on Amazon on launch selling 2 000 books in 48 hours Which was fantastic. You know, I don't follow that route anymore because it's been done and well and done but that was great! But no this is number four... Number five is with the publisher for hopefully later this year or early next year publication Wow so you are... I want to turn the sound off here

07:32 And what's your writing technique? Do you have a really solid plan or have you got an idea in your head and you just go like, where is the... I tend to mind map. So I'll mind map the chapters, then on my map within the chapters up to... you know. I don't know how familiar you are with mind mapping but yeah yeah i'll go about three or four branches out and if I do that it pretty much drops on the page and you move stuff around and you add stuff as you know it then becomes a stream of consciousness The two books this year are very different so Connected Leadership was written in two weeks at the start of lockdown published already

08:10 And that really was just me brain dumping, you know here are my thoughts on these topics. A little bit of reference to other people but I knew where those references were Just Ask which is the next book is a lot of research over 50 interviews We actually carried out an academic research project at Chicago for the book so it's a very very different beast and that's when its fourth Manuscripts, which was meant to come out last year but we just haven't I haven't quite got it right. Yeah though some flow Others, you have to work a lot harder to get there. And have you found that it's got easier? Like as I imagined, you'd hope that when you start to do something and the confidence goes up or maybe just the self-belief is kind of the same thing but just belief in your own writing... Yeah, I've always been a confident writer. Before all this, I edited published Footprint Fanzine

09:11 Oh, you're a Charlton fan aren't you? Well not just an average Charlton fan either. A pretty serious Charlton fan! Back in the day more than now I think i've been turned off a lot by what's happened at the club over the last few years but... I was on the supporters' club committee used to run the away train travel I'm very, very involved and I published the fanzine and we were voted number two in the UK by Total Football Magazine. So i'd always had that confidence in my writing yeah there is a zone you get into and what I found this year with Just Ask And the reason I'm using this latest manuscript and with Connected Leadership is that i've really enjoyed it, the writing process. If there was a world in which I could just be an author 80% of the time my headspace at the moment doesn't quite fit the bill for what I need to achieve but its something I enjoy doing. Yeah totally!

10:13 I'm going to get you on and obviously, I invite people and they don't always come. So thank you for taking me up on the offer but it's for me around the team Super Dad principles, dads who want more, dad creating a life that they aspire too. The people that we're connected to both in work and in our social life are so important to us. And you mentioned in Connected Leadership about six... The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Andy Lopata,

11:03 For me and for any of the Team Superdad community listening, I really want them to hear that this is a conversation not just about work but about our social life. About the importance of everyone we meet and how we can stay in touch with those. My dad is a nutter for staying connected with people writing letters and talking to all his friends very much on an individual level even when he's He's taken a chunk of this is what we've been up to, he'll top and tail it and make it all very personal. I gave him a Dropbox account which I help look after in case he accidentally deletes things so I see his work-to-do list, he keeps a work-to-do list like has him on track each day. And I see that he's got it there.

11:50 He's got a list of people to call that week and you've got underneath that he's got a bunch of letters that he's going to write that week. And, that was some of the elements in your book as well we'll dig into all those but it was just powerful to see I know my dad is someone who has friends all over the world and particularly he's retired now but in his work career had a reputation bit of a maverick in many ways He fueled that. I can really see how much he fueled that and it just amazes me, as i was reading your new book Connected Leadership some of what's in there is so obvious

12:31 So powerful as well because on the one hand you say, well that's obvious but if you're not bloody doing it it's a massive clanger and absolutely like how could you expect to succeed if you're not fostering those relationships or you're not going outside of your organisation to build connections. The thing I wanted to ask you sort of straight off the bat was why do people find it so hard To get out there and foster strong relationships. Where does that stem from? I think there's a combination of reasons, part of it is laziness That might be bit harsh And maybe a bit on purpose as well to provoke but From a professional perspective one of the biggest challenges, THE biggest challenge i get from people is time You're absolutely right people know this stuff

13:18 This is basic. I've got a tip book called It's Not Rocket Science very original because i want to own that, I'm not pretending that I'm writing any sort of brand new theories The key is that people don't implement this and a lot of it is what takes our priority. So maybe laziness is a bit unfair, not for everyone there will be people where it's just sheer laziness. I've had plenty of team members who could fall into that camp for sure! But but might be unfair for a lot of people but prioritizing is a key thing because the thing about time management is that we prioritize what we think will get the return on

13:58 And we don't think of the return we get on relationships. They're an afterthought, but if you think about it... You've got that finance focus and that's your career, that's your business if you run a business, it's your job whatever it might be. Think about all the things that you need to achieve in order to be successful in that career, that business, that role And then think how much easier they become when other people are there to help and support you. Whether that's making the right introductions, giving you advice feedback information or just support whether it's influencing key decision makers and saying actually this is the guy you need

14:40 You know, all of those things make smooth our path. Make it easier and if we can take that understanding and align the objectives which we're pursuing with the relationships we build then suddenly our priorities might shift and will invest time in building relationships now whether your dad's worked that out Or he understands it instinctively or he just gets sheer joy from staying in touch with people. He's doing the right thing. You know what, it's all of them and my dad has done some bonkers stuff in his life like cool things whether

15:22 Tea at Buckingham Palace or tea at Houses of Parliament, or invitations to Glyndebourne or having a Royal Enclosure Pass. He doesn't like to not be able to make things happen. So, so when he's like, Oh how'd you get in there? It will then become his mission to next time we go there to be in there and how it'll do is start to work his network and find out introductions or find out ways to help what was that about? How do I get in there And then actually really starts also built into him as well isn't a nosiness

15:59 So he won't go in blind, he'll get very knowledgeable on the subject and then take that to person X or person Y. And you said in a part of the book there and I've mentioned it in the post to promote the live stream, It's not what you know is who knows you And then inside of that comes the trust and the association. So when someone says, oh can I have a favour or could you tell me about that? They go Oh yeah course Jon! My dad's name is Jon. I'd love to have lunch with you something because they know as well as them telling him something he wants to know He's gonna entertain and share with them all lunch so there is an instant win-win there which he's built up over time What's also happening Is because your dad is clearly reaching out when it doesn't need something

16:48 People are happy to entertain him when he does. Where people commonly make mistakes, and I'm at the wrong end of this on a regular basis is they don't stay in touch. They don't show any interest in you until they need you and that's things... And people don't appreciate that! What your dad's doing is reaching out with no ending mind. Speaking to a colleague During the lockdown and he was reaching out to clients just say how are you? And the response he's getting from clients was no we're not buying at the moment. And that told me straight away, he hadn't previously been saying how are you

17:33 Because they weren't used to it. So, it's about Stephen Covey and the Seven Habits of Money. Oh I love that book! Yeah, thats one of my early personal development books that was yeah? Yes he talks about emotional bank accounts and you said You wouldn't go to a bank And seek to withdraw money if you haven't invested some money in there in the first place and relationships are the same Now where I take that off into two different directions post-Covey One is I might invest, I might deposit £10 in my bank account. Let's say I put...I take £10 into the bank and say put that into my bank account if I then go back to withdraw that £10 I don't get the same note back and similarly with your network you invest in your network and you withdraw from your networks

18:22 But it might not be from the same, to and from the same person. So the other thing that's happening with your dad is his reputation means people want to help him. It's not a fact that he's calling in quid pro quos but people know if they needed something or if they wanted a source of information or anything like that, they could come to him so he's invested in this network as a whole and he can withdraw from this network The other extension I'd add to the emotional bank accounts from Covi is that you wouldn't just keep depositing and never withdrawing. And where a lot of people fall down, you said why don't people use this? The other reason people don't do this is because they're frightened to ask and this comes up so often

19:07 They're frightened to make that withdrawal. So they're going into the bank all the time and go ten pound, ten pound, ten pound, ten pound right? Yeah yeah When they need it withdrawal they get to the door of the branch I think oh I can't go and ask for that money you know what... so then their networking becomes exhausting basically because there always they are one who is always helping out or entertaining taking them for lunch never actually asking anything back yeah And i should reinforce its never a quid pro quo It's never I've helped you therefore you owe me It's I have invested in my network and my network knows that. So if I need help, I can turn to my network for that support and by network on that seven stages of professional relationship the people who know like and trust you not people you've just met yeah and it doesn't matter if you helped them in the past as long as they know you would help them in the future if they needed you too

20:01 And that whole no like trust has become sort of an internet kind of moniker, but it must have always existed. Was it called something before the internet was always been a no like trust you think? I mean Penny's book was called No Me Like Me Trust, Penny Powers' book was called No Me Like Me Trust Me. Um, I think I've read that expression back in the early days of social media and I think it was coined by Bob Berg in his book, Endless Referrals. And Bob's book would be going back possibly to the 90s. Yeah. I think it was Bob that coined it. Good knowledge Andy! Good knowledge and...

20:44 So we didn't really introduce you that much either, but your reputation goes back a long way. You know... Are you saying I'm old? No no! But this is very much about the relationships and people need to understand about relationships. The size of your network is pretty extensive. You said on your LinkedIn profile there are 30 000 contacts. Now you're featured in some of the national newspapers as well around that subject What size network is ideal? Should people be constantly trying to get more and more people in or is it about making the best out of the ones you've got. Yeah, I'm not sure whether 30,000 contacts... Is that on your profile? I'll have to go back and check! That might be someone else's profile. Oh sorry about that. You might well be right yeah. My business strapline is connecting is not enough

21:36 Because I don't believe in the culture of connecting for the sake of it. The click exchange is on LinkedIn and think that we're connected now, to me it's about the depth of your relationship as much as the breadth And you mentioned earlier, we've touched on a couple of times the seven stages of professional relationship. I start out that section of the book by talking about how we get networks wrong and how we misunderstand what our network looks like because you talked about the average size of a network or the ideal size of a network

22:12 A network doesn't have a finite size. It's multi-layered and full of moving parts, so I meet you at an event... So let's say when we met online a few weeks ago in the first session of The New Mastermind and we didn't really talk much on that half day that i was on the call. I saw you there, I heard your chat talk, you probably heard me talk If we'd have exchanged something in the next few days, we would have recognized each other from that interaction. And you can take that into the physical world post-lockdown and lockdown where we bump into each other at a dinner party for example, or we chat for awhile if we meet each other the following week, we recognize each other I call that stage one in The Seven Stages of Professional Relationships – Recognize

23:01 But then when we have a bit more of a conversation, we get to know each other. I know who you are and what you stand for so what we're starting to do is build a wall around me outside the network for each of us as respective individuals. And this picture's in your book isn't it? It's like a target but with seven rings. Yeah, I describe it as the side section of an onion Yeah, good. That's just for people who are listening they can now picture that in their mind because this is another way it's like a ladder right down to the middle of that really close relationship so yeah please carry on. By the way it was not you that got the interview, I interviewed a guy called George McGeeran in the States he runs a couple different recruitment businesses

23:43 The Is there going to find the right candidate because they know someone who knows them. Second and third level connections, yeah And they don't wait for the introduction They're not worried about a trusted connection They'll just go Jonnie I saw that you're looking for this job or found your LinkedIn Do you want? You know we've got an opportunity for it So that's effectively marketing rather than networking Yeah, trusted relationships with the seven stages

24:26 What you're doing is, you're taking people on a journey into the depth of your network. So from that recognize and know we go to like trust support advocate and then you've got friend as the final level so when you talk about the ideal size of a network I would much rather have a network with A.) The right people who are well positioned to help me as well as B.) People i get on well with and have a rapport with And a diverse network so I get lots of different ideas, different inputs and know what's going on in worlds other than my own. But i would rather have

25:05 500 people where I've got reasonably deep relationships or even 100 people, where I've got reasonably deep relationships than 30,000 people where I've exchanged a click and they wouldn't know me from Adam. Yeah of course! So that's why...I can't answer the question of what's the right? No it was interesting, I think there was a... I know Thomas and Penny thats why i mentioned them both and Thomas is big on his sort of network stuff and um..i remember him sharing a few things I And we would have... I remember people, someone recommended eCademy to me when it was just an email and I joined quite early on. I was a Blackstar member towards the end but Thomas and I, you'll be going back into the early 2000's about 2002-3 I would think We taught Scotland together through eCademy groups and we did talk The Art & Science of Networking and I talked about it as an art

26:29 And Thomas talked about the science, the numbers and he would say if you meet X number of people a day you will earn x amount of money. Now we have very different approaches I can see straight away yeah. So Jon had a feeling you'd know Thomas that's why i said yeah And there is value, you know. There is value in Thomas's approach it's not my approach and vice versa and you've got to get what's right for you the balance from it. Yeah that's true that's the true adage in all these things is to have a broad understanding take on board bits of information then work out what works right for you something that really struck me as important you know one of the parts of Team Superdad is about fun

27:15 It can happen in life. For me, talking to Swizzies is talking about my own experiences but that's where the main inspiration for Team Superdair came from is such a lot of fun at a younger age quite a lot of fun as you're going into your thirties then you get married and have kids seem to have not a lot of fun Yeah, different types of fun. But there's degrees within that actually when you start to go like oh well this isn't fair and how did my life end up like this? But actually what's happened is the things that you enjoy doing, you're doing less of and then the things that you... so naturally those like-minded people you're seeing less off. So I really was interested in your book In The Connected Leadership just about that strategically mapping out

28:00 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Andy Lopata, If it's going to get a job or if it's growing your business, or if it's looking to get headhunted or something I can understand that. But can you talk a little bit about how people would strategically map out and build their network? Yes so first of all taking what I've written as a professional book and applying the personal one, I can see how you could do that And how I've done that... You know I'm a single guy and I live just outside London

28:45 And over the last, actually it's five years now. I've been very closely connected into a group of friends who...I mean it's changing you know as time goes on but at the beginning were predominantly single party together, picnic together normally you know tomorrow night is a quiz night with a lot of the group but But have a lot in common. So I got introduced into that group and okay, I was lucky I got introduced in but if you are just moved to a big city for example and you don't know anyone or You're just divorced and you want us... A new social life might be a good example It's finding groups like that And you know having the courage to connect into them. I live just outside London I'm not from where.. you know? I've lived here a long time but I'm not from here. I'd and it's a very very

29:39 The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Andy Lopata, The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, In the book I'm talking about professional connecting and ambition. And if you're comfortable go with that, I just wanted people to hear the connection like the relatedness between it is actually... You might quite naturally think about mapping out your work network and planning how I'm going to get a new job or planning how I'm going to acquire a new business or whatever but then

30:21 But then go home and be lonely. And actually, if you've done it at work strategically plan out your personal life as well So yeah feel free to share on it from the work I'll share a couple of things on that then so first of all what's in the book? In the book we've got...I call it The Relationship Chart My working title for is The 3-i Pi but I've also got something else called Pi in the book so I just called It The Relationship Chart there And the three I-PIE says there's three types of people you need on a project. If you want to achieve something on a project, you need three types of people in each stakeholder group. So stakeholder group might be inside your own organization, inside a client's organization in your industry. You know that can be different examples... Yeah, yeah that was good when you spoke about pharmaceutical like a stakeholder group in a client group would be I'm trying to sell this company so I need to influence

31:15 The person who's going to use the product, the person who is going to buy the product. The person who signs off on the product like they're your stakeholders in that client business. Yeah. So there are three I's in there you mentioned one of them which is influencers. Who do people listen to? You know, whose word is going to carry some strength when they're sat around a board meeting or committee meeting discussing your proposal? One of the biggest mistakes that people make when they try to influence decisions is that they rely on one person. And that one person might be carrying their case into a meeting with ten other people none of whom know you or know the case and they can be drowned out very easily so you need to know who are the key influences around that table

31:56 The second are intermediaries or introducers, the people that can make the introductions to open doors for you. You know you need to know that key person they will they will make the connection for you and the third of sources of information insights and ideas so they can tell you what people are thinking They can give you feedback on your ideas before you push them forward They could tell you who the key movers and shakers are So from a professional standpoint You need those three eyes within any stakeholder group. So when you're looking at a project, you can say okay who are the most influential people here? Who do we need to be connected to? Who can make introductions? Who can give me insight and you can say who do I know who can do that but i haven't got strong enough relationship and you know you need to build a relationship with them

32:49 Who do I know who can do that? I've got a strong relationship, but i'm not asking them. So you say well maybe I should ask for their help and who don't I know and I need to find and I need to build a relationship with just to balance that off because that can all sound very cold when we're talking about human-to-human interaction I talk in the book as well about having a balance between a partnership or a strategic mindset, which is what i've just outlined. These are the people I need to meet to move my agenda forward and and the people you just get on really well with You know? And that's what I call a relational mindset So it's okay to have both but when you are engaging with people whether they are people you've identified and targeted Or whether they're just people who have a rapport with

33:38 You treat them all the same and you treat them authentically, humanly and in a relationship-based way. So the strategy sits behind the way you engage with people and you let the relationship grow but it can be strategic in thinking about it So that's the, that relationship chart 3i pie idea. Well and you shared about one of your early stages of your career, the receptionist at The Benefits Agency. And I really related to that as well just...I don't know whether it's been part of my growing up or what but i've always found it really easy to talk to people

34:16 I can't walk past the receptionist every day and not know about him or her. Like it just, it just occurs to me to chat to that person and like you said in the book when there's Good things on offer or when there's a free something, people don't realize how influential those reception kind of front-of-house roles can be. And you know when you get the last sandwich every day maybe you should make better friends with the person who is signing off the sandwiches! And I think in your example, it was an even more powerful benefit that you got from those people who are processing the applications. Yeah and there was nothing strategic about it back then. I'd never heard of any of this. I just probably hated being at my desk. Just being a good guy? But the point I made in my book is that my colleagues were much more transactional with them and they didn't get the support that I did. On the point of receptionists, its interesting...I read quite a few articles over the last couple years where companies

35:15 are asking receptionists when they're interviewing for jobs, what happens is if let's say you have a job interview. You walk in and you go up to the receptionist and you say I'm here for a job interview they then get you sit down send you through whatever it may be between the time that you are invited into the interview room Or between the time you're sitting down and you being invited to interview room, the interviewer has spoken to the receptionist for their impression. Yeah Did you take your headphones out? Did you turn your mobile phone off? Were you polite were you civil and people are losing jobs before they even walk into the interview because of the way they treat the receptionists

35:57 And I think that's an incredibly powerful story. It's, you know the classic analogy is the dating one where you'll be judged by your date by the way you treat the waiters. Yes of course! You know and astute dates will look at that and see how you treat other people who could be perceived shouldn't but could be perceived as in a subservient to you yeah And I think that's a really good example of that. Well, I teach to my kids all the time you know is got this adage of good things happen to good people and that's a really simple concept for kids to understand when we go to the swimming baths We talk to all the front-of-house people and what that means is sometimes when relate to swimming? We just run through without having to sign in on stuff because they they know who we are The ladies at Gregg's

36:44 It's not that they're ladies, but they are all ladies in Greggs. But we say hello to them and not every time on more than one occasion my kids have been given an extra donut or something else and they just look at me and go... And I don't think of that now as some random piece of good fortune, they connect the when we're nice and say hello to people. When we pay attention things work out for us and I'm not trying to big myself up there i just love that that's something that I've instilled in them and then when it comes back I'm like yes because because it meant that I wasn't talking nonsense! I remember back in the golden days when Cholton were in the Premier League

37:29 I used to walk into the Royal Oak which was our pub at football and it's like the home pub. And, um...I'd walk in and it would be five deep at The Bar And there were a couple of the bar mates there and they'd see me walk in and they would pour my pint while they were serving other people, and others were queuing. Yeah! I'll go to my normal spot and they bring it over. That was all professional relationship because i spoke to them, I knew their names, I chatted with them, flirted with him a bit...and then you might drink? Yeah that's not you being Billy Big Balls that's just you being a good guy for extended period time

38:07 Damien Matthews on the Expert Hangout a couple of weeks ago. He did some great stuff at Charlton. Yeah, top bloke really top bloke and Chris Parker is a guy I work with not like do you know how many Charlton fans you know but i have got a good work associate and friend Chris Parker who's a big Charlton fan as well Not in my circle, I'm probably more likely to recognise him by face. Yeah you might well do yeah definitely! I'm a Spurs fan for my scenes So what's the biggest mistake that people make in, it might well be obvious really maybe it's just not bothering but you know what? What's a common mistake that people make in poorly managing their relationships. How long we got? Think about business right someone yeah I think you probably mentioned a couple of them already but if there is a business leader...I'm just reading The Trillion Dollar Coach as well which is a fabulous book about how

39:09 I think his name's Bill as well. He, you know how he helped coach many Silicon Valley companies into trillion dollars of status and so much of that is about the power relationships and how bosses treat their staff and how they network with each other but what are some of the perhaps this is obvious but to hell with it let's go with it what are some of the big mistakes that people make Some of the biggest ones, not following up with people. Oh yeah I love that was it 24? 7? 24-730. Nice! So when i meet you the first time I follow up within 24 hours and people say that's a bit desperate isn't there to which my reply is it's not dating

39:48 You want to remind them about yourself while it's still fresh in their minds. And I'm now kicking myself in my head because I know that there were a couple of follow-ups I needed to do today and I reminded everyone before. That's what your Google speakers for now! I tell my Google speaker everything I need to be reminded of, I tell him. Yeah. Um...I use something called FollowUpThen.com which is normally brilliant. It has probably come through this evening so I probably did it on Friday evenings so it's probably done around now but With followupthen.com, if I send an email up at bccfollowupthen.com and i get the email back in my inbox when I tell it you know so it might be monday at followup then . com and I get the email back on Monday which I didn't today but anyway so you follow-up within 24 hours um and then you follow up again

40:37 After seven days and again after 30 days. What you're looking for is ideally three two-way touch points, so genuine conversation So I will do things like, I might send you an email the next day. Great to chat to you yesterday. You know really interesting conversation let me know when the podcast is released? Yeah yeah! I might send your LinkedIn connection request a week later rather than in the moment so i'm separating two touch points and using them as two different opportunities to connect but I'll personalize the LinkedIn connection request

41:14 And then after 30 days, maybe we meet for a coffee in normal times or we go for virtual coffee. Or I send you an article and say, I saw this and thought of you because it was based on something that we said in our discussion. You know, so there's an article on Spurs and let's say, I remember your fan, you know, saw this if you can make it about their personal interests above their professional interest is even more powerful. It shows you are listening. Yeah, I did. The guy connected with the other day on LinkedIn He sent me the connection request. I accepted it, but I replied back hi nice to meet you how do you think we can help each other out? I'm really interested to know more and he came back and said oh blimey not many people do that! And it will be easy for someone listening to this might hear you

42:07 Well, that's a bit cheesy or that's a bit full on or whatever. But actually if you imagined it in real life... No its not at all! It is completely normal. Its less normal to be ignored Yeah, completely. I love the way you put that a similar example You know when I was doing a lot of stuff on networking skills one of the biggest challenges people have is remembering names and One of them the technique that works best for me is repetition Yes So if I repeat your name three or four times when I first meet you it's more likely to stick particularly If I had reading it so if you give me a business card where you're wearing an aim badge

42:48 Everyone says, oh my god that sounds so false. But when you actually play it out it doesn't So your Jonnie... Jonnie good to meet you! So tell me Jonnie what is it that brought you here? I said it four times there It sounded perfectly natural Now obviously when your role playing it stands out a bit more In general conversation not at all and its exactly the same with these touch points Its sounds like overkill but messaging you the next day And then seven days later and then 30 days later. Have you got other stuff going on in between? Of course you have. Exactly! So it's not like you're sitting there waiting for the next touch point? No, and anyone conscientious enough to know that's what you're doing will probably be impressed not like oh dear what a freak he's really putting an effort into connecting with me I'm trying make it as natural as possible of course That's key...I think I wouldn't provide a formula for the words to be used in

43:48 Connection requests, emails or anything else for example. Again going back to the networking skills thing I hate books that say here's 20 questions to ask someone at a networking event because you become a robot you don't become authentic I shouldn't have to tell you what to say to someone in conversation. That's a different skill set entirely and this is the same thing, it either flows naturally or it doesn't and that's a bloody good indication about whether that relationship will evolve. Yeah! And at two second look at their profile oh she lives in San Diego Oh she surfs Oh she's got two kids like if you can't

44:27 Find a reason to say hi and it was good to meet you yesterday, then probably you're going to struggle anyway. You're not going to connect with everyone you meet and not want to follow up with everyone you meet that's not what I'm suggesting. And that's really important point because goes back time management. I don't have time to follow-up with everyone I have conversation with is when they fit my strategic goals we talked about earlier We have something really powerful in common or we just got on really well. Yeah, that's really important I'm just going to flick into your book here because there was a chapter I'd got to where I was particularly... Was it this one? Nurturing professional relationships. Oh yeah that was the circle with the onion in

45:22 Oh, there we go. Yeah yeah so oh never eat alone that's it totally Grant Cardone I think in his 10x book he talks about don't you ever go for lunch on your own and he doesn't like people sitting in work eating at their desk because You should be taking, like you should be out for lunch with someone. Go and have lunch with some people." And so when I noticed that, I was like, okay yeah, I remember that from one of Grant's books. People... do you think bosses encourage that enough or they're so focused on work-work-work that they are almost happy to see their staff sitting eating their lunch at a desk? They are obsessed with short term targets on the whole

46:07 You know, the last chapter of the book is all about creating a relationship culture in your organization where you actually trust your staff and you give them that leeway. Now, you mentioned the story of the receptionists in the benefits agency earlier one of things that happened there was my colleagues sat... we worked on flexi time so my colleagues had the shortest possible lunch they could go home at half past three So they would eat their sandwiches at their desk and then carry on. I would be going out for lunch every day with people from all around the office. That was just my nature, I hate this job! I've got to get something positive out of the day particularly in Croydon and I lived in Hendon. An hour and a half each way everyday so somewhere I didn't like to a job I hated that was making me ill at least I could enjoy that lunch hour up to two hours because I was on flexi time you know I still made it the hours

47:06 And I was doing it with people from all over the office. Now, my colleagues probably thought I was skiving! I probably thought I was skiving as well! It's for the betterment of hindsight that I was building relationships that made my job easier and I think that you know Never Eat Alone is a title of a very good book by Keith Ferrazzi to what I reference in the book and one of the tips that I share a lot is when you travel You know, who else do you know in that area? And by travel that could just as easily be I work in the West End of London but I've got a meeting in Docklands as I'm in Singapore. It can be either extreme but who else do you know in that area that you're going to that you could catch up with if I'm in meetings in London and I don't work from London unless I have meetings there

48:02 I should be looking for someone to have lunch with, to use the time effectively. But you have to get the balance between building those relationships, nurturing and maintaining those relationships and your mental health And your waistline. If I'm in meetings all day, I want some down time. I want some me time particularly if you have introvert tendencies which means that you draw your energy from solitude so and i've noticed over the years i've been doing this in this game 21 years it's good enough to make anyone an introvert um that side of me has come out a lot more so actually i've enjoyed a lot of lockdown more than i thought

48:46 And that means that I have to feed both sides. So allowing myself to be on my own is absolutely fine, it's about finding the right balance. Yeah and that comes back to actually having that sensible number of connections Seeing where, and again in fact all the points you've made here which is why the book flows so nicely is mapping out what you need to get out of this. Looking for gaps in your network. What are my goals? Who do I need to connect with and then of course you're saying right well how much time have I got to got to do this So which are the ones that actually going actively go out to seek to spend time with

49:26 Just to close the loop on that benefits agency story, tell everyone what you found out some years after you left. Well, I found out that... so basically I was making decisions on social funds loan and grant applications. Those applications were given to the receptionists they would give them to the client now because of budgets most didn't get what they wanted yeah they would scream and shout or cry or whatever and complained to the receptionist and the receptionist would decide whether they could be entitled to a review or not

50:03 And the receptionists, I found out years later were standing up for my decisions. As long as they were reasonable, they were standing up for them and saying no this has been perfectly made there's no grounds for review you need to be on your way whereas some of my colleagues who are a little bit more offhand to say the least with the receptionist didn't focus on the relationships with them they went yeah you can have a review so that meant... Which meant Jitty, awkward interview with an angry person who had their application declined. So that time you invested in their lunch? Yeah! Inadvertently you were improving your experience of work by having a nice lunch with these people Which goes back to my point much earlier about the impact our professional relationships have on our ability to achieve our objectives and I didn't know that at the time

51:00 But by investing in the relationships, by going for lunch with them, by stopping down and having a chat with them when I was on reception rather than just dropping off forms. That helped me it saved me time in the long run so its being aware of that and investing in that. Yeah love that! So powerful and we were talking about a moment ago about our kids and stuff I think for teenagers this can start at any age really. You know, obviously university... Oh again you mentioned in the book about people who go on MBA courses they go on the course as on further studies just as much to build the alumni network because they do get the knowledge but increasingly with social media our kids are going to be building these networks

51:48 From as soon as they've got an account basically. Yeah, one of the other points I make and I think...I know i make it in Just Ask my next book but I think I make it in Connected Leadership pretty sure I do is that this we're now introducing into the workforce the most connected generation there has ever been yeah these people are your employees or they're potentially your competition for jobs And they are connected up to their eyeballs. The story I use is that when i was 25, I backpacked... Yeah it's in the book! The guys in Australia and South Africa and stuff yeah? So I traveled for 15 months and what happens if you've backpacked, you know the story You land somewhere so let's say you get to Sydney, you go to a Backpackers hostel and you connect with all the people in there and they become your best mates for the next six weeks and you do everything together

52:44 And then you go north and they go south. Back then there was no Facebook, there was no email, there were no mobile phones! We wrote physical letters. Scrap of paper with a phone number and address on it yeah? Yeah that's what you had I think i had a file of fax... I got back 15 months later these people who are like my best friend in the world I'm trying to remember them and I get back 15 months later, in some cases they've been really back for 14 months because when we met they were at the end of their trip. Yeah of course! They're back in their ordinary life that's a different life for them or I'm back and they're still traveling so one person from those days we absolutely stayed in touch he's my best mate but other than that I think I met up with

53:38 One girl who I was really close to and it just wasn't the same back in the UK. I think that's it, you know from all these people I met over 15 months we didn't stay in touch because we didn't have the ability to do so now if someone goes backpacking my niece last year did Nicaragua Japan Australia and so on of course she'll be in touch with all those people for the rest of her life potentially yeah You know, and they'll stay in sight in mind even if they're not talking regularly. I've reconnected with some people from back in the day you know people from school and sixth form there are a handful of from each in my social networks an interestingly one of them bought the book

54:25 last week on publication and emailed me. And we're Facebook friends, but we haven't seen each other for 32 years and he said I enjoy following you know what you're doing and so forth. But that's an outlier for me yeah well my niece is generation that does their whole life ahead So if you think as an employer and your recruiting between two people and one of them has the old farts network one of them has the Millennials Network And if you understand as an employer how to leverage the networks of your staff by giving them free reigns build and maintain relationships, by giving them reasons to talk positively about working for you. Think about the source of future employees clients ideas suppliers whatever that you could have at your fingertips through those expanded network. Yeah well in my

55:18 Former guys of digital marketing consultant and agency owner and digital marketing director. I would coach in clients that exact message, like you've got to cut these guys loose so they can connect with loads of people You've got to give them enough space to say what they really want, because if you don't that's probably going backfire on you with prospective hires who are gonna look at you and go why would I wanna work for someone who puts that much control over their staff.

55:55 And then the third point was just as far as the individuals went. It's like, you don't know that this job is forever and if you get down to your next interview and one of them has got If you've got 2000 LinkedIn connections and you've got 200, well... You're either going to be very confident in your 200 or they are going to find that's a very obvious reason for them. If you downed the last two, you're probably pretty much the same person so they just need a single reason. Yeah yeah completely agree and it's not an excuse just to go out and chase connections but if you have a professional relationship strategy

56:37 You can then sit in the meeting and talk about the value you can bring through the power of your relationship. Yeah, that is powerful. That's the key! What can you bring to this business? Well, of course you've seen my credentials but I'd like to talk about my network and the people i know yeah that's very powerful awesome It's been lovely chatting to you Andy. What do you think post-corona, have you given much thought How the world looks from a relationships and networking and connections point of view. Yeah, you haven't got to the afterword of the book yet have you? Because that's what it is all about! Okay cool so give me give me the heads up before I get to it...I'm on chapter 8! What I did was write the book in the first two weeks of lockdown And so what I did for the afterwards is I wrote 10 things that I've observed In those first 2 weeks right now how I thought would impact us going forward

57:36 And some of the things I looked at were, for example we're going to be more used to meeting people virtually. You know everyone talks about Zoom and Teams and so forth... So that will naturally come into play a lot more but it still doesn't fill the gap you can read body language, read nuances really engage in the same way. For example right now in order I'm looking at the camera lens, not you. Oh yeah of course. So you can't make genuine eye contact and I have a choice of looking... You know obviously if you're listening to this on a podcast that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but we are doing it. That's just right! I am looking at you and I am looking in the eye but

58:21 You're looking at me and I'm not looking in the eye, I am looking down slightly down from the camera. Yeah exactly so iIm trying to balance that in the conversation now but that makes it harder to genuinely engage and listen yeah same way So things like that mean We, there are people saying everything will be done remotely. I don't believe it will. I think we don't get the same value on a Zoom call as we do face to face and by the way, I've noticed that a lot of my clients in corporates Still don't want to do video conferencing. And secondly, we missed that human-to-human connection so I think what we'll see is a slight shift rather than the sea change in the way that we engage with each other. So i think that will be key another point that I talked about was the importance of empathy

59:09 And what's really stood out for me during lockdown is how, the impact your manner and your words can have on people through no fault of your own. Now that's always been there but it's heightened by the sensitivities of COVID-19 so Let's say for example, and this has happened to me. I'll give you an example that has happened to me. Someone had told me that she was going to review my book for me the next one to give me some feedback and i really needed it back and she promised and hadn't heard back

59:45 And she sent me a message saying, Andy I'm really sorry. How are you? Andy look, I'm really sorry this has happened. This has happened blah blah blah and and i said no that's fine and and i thought i was being okay but i just said look that's fine it's too late but don't worry about it and my tone in my head was understanding what she got was a text that went that's fine It's too late Don't worry about it. Oh! A text message oh yeah... She'd been furloughed And I'd say she said, how are you now? I often disregard a how are you as a throwaway comment. Her reply was she didn't even ask how I was. You didn't know about us about me being furloughed and this has happened four or five times to me.

1:00:28 during the lockdown that's not happened before. So I think empathy has to be dialed up and we have to, I think we're having to learn to be more empathetic or empathic i think the word is um...I certainly am so I think that that's another key uh advance for me yeah empathic like considering other people's feelings like where they're at when they are when they ask that yeah well that's wow That's another way in which all this thing that has happened could push us back to a more, more natural way where we do give a bit more thought to people. Where we do perhaps pick up the phone and I mean, I always try to ring people rather than text people and I tell my kids that as well. Oh, I'll text them. Don't bloody text them! Ring them! Ring them up if they don't answer then send him a text. Don't do it the other

1:01:20 There you go, that's a lesson for everybody to take on board. It's just little things you know I've tried to do because it has been so busy the last few weeks it's been hard to find time to talk to people unscheduled like today I went for a half hour walk and made a phone call I needed to make so I could combine the fresh air And the exercise with a call that, you know rather than send an email or message. Yeah and it is little things like that so I think that empathy would be key and the next book, the one that's with the publisher at the moment is all about being vulnerable and the importance of being vulnerable and I think aligned to the empathy is the vulnerability The

1:02:12 The work that Prince William and Harry have done around mental health in men, for example. The number of footballers that have come out and talked about their suicidal thoughts... And you know one of those stories is in the book I think it's taken us on that journey COVID-19 has accelerated it and that combination of empathy and vulnerability could be hugely powerful going forward Yeah people being more real with each other Definitely yeah fabulous way to end I think there Andy absolutely beautiful So usual thing, where can people connect with you? Obviously then you want them to go and get the book. I could have in having speed read it today up to chapter eight, I can fully endorse it. I think that employers could give this to their

1:02:58 Any member of staff, but certainly any member of staff that they want to go out and network and want to instill upon them the importance of building strong relations. I think it's both practical and essential information for anybody whether as a reminder or is it there's a teaching tool basically so congratulations on that! Where should people go to get that? And how can people connect with you? Okay, so the easiest way to find the book either go onto Amazon and just search by name and you've got my author page with all my books or go to AndyLopata.com forward slash connected leadership And on that page there's all the Amazon domains at which the book can be found So if you're not in the UK You could hopefully find your local Amazon domain there for those people who are listening to us live

1:03:47 Get it tonight because you'll save some money because it's the last day of the launch week. Good 99p that is an absolute steal go out there and get it yeah, And it goes up in the morning so grab that now um and yes with a surname like mine I'm pretty easy to find uh linkedin dot com slash in slash networking strategy feel free to follow me I talked about Not exchanging clicks, so follow me and engage with me through the posts first would be preferable. I've got a Facebook page again slash networking strategy and now use my name on Twitter and Instagram Andy Lopata is the username on both and then the website Andylopata.com or lopata.co.uk Neatly positioned behind your left ear

1:04:39 Andy, it's great. We're going to have a whole seven months together on the Mastermind but it's been a magical way to get to know you even more so I'm looking forward to that but also thank you so much for your time tonight. My pleasure thanks having me on Jonny. Yeah really enjoyed it Hey, I hope you enjoyed that. Andy as i mentioned is on a mastermind with me if you've been in a mastermind you'll know about the power of working with other people in a close circle sharing knowledge and information supporting each other having fun together basically just not doing it all on your own whatever level you're at

1:05:18 Elite people have coaches, they have masterminds. If you've read Napoleon's Hill Think and Grow Rich you'll be very familiar with where this concept of masterminding comes from but even way back... You can go back to the Stoics in Greek times and all that sort of thing The Groups, one of the accountability and success groups works like a mastermind but really expanding our knowledge and implementing success tactics into our life. So many of us listen to books listened to podcasts and then actually the difference comes when we implement it so that's kind of my story if you've not heard my story then go back into some of the old

1:06:15 I hope you enjoyed this episode, perhaps listen to the trailer. The Team Superdad podcast trailer and just get familiar with where I've come in my journey and how that ended up with the team super dad community in all the work that we do with dads creating their best life ever around the world. Thanks so much for listening! I can't wait to join you here again don't forget to share and review this and I'll see you on the next podcast This is Jonnie, Team Superdad out bye This has been Team Superdad! Find us at teamsuperdad.com