How To Use The Power Of Your Network with Andy Lopata

00:00 In this episode of the Team Superdad podcast, I talk to Andy Lopata on the power of an awesome network and how to use it to be more successful. Role theme. Welcome to Team Super Dad. Real dads creating their best lives ever. More time, more money, more fun. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad. Welcome back to the Team Super Dad podcast. I'm Johnny Jensen, your host and founder of the Team Superdad community. It's great to have you back. This week, we're talking to another guest. Andy Leparta is in my network and we talk to him about the power of your network, how to create one and how to get the most from it.

00:46 Andy's a bit of a dude, really. He is, in some circles, he's known as like the super connector. But increasingly his work, he talks about really not just how to create a powerful network, but why you need it and how to be a valuable person, how to be respected and how to use that really, not just for your own gain, like a selfish gain, but when you're being awesome with other people, then it reflects back on you. So Andy's a really cool guy and great to have him on the podcast. If you're a dad listening to this for the first time, a man, you might even be a mum, but welcome, welcome, whether it's,

01:26 get my words out, Johnny. Whether it's your first time or whether you're coming back, it's great to have you here. Of course, we would love you to come over to Apple Podcasts or any reviews where you can leave a review on your preferred podcast platform, then we'd love to get one. Good or bad, it's great feedback. Do you know, if you're going to give something bad though, maybe send it in a message. How about that? Let me know. But, you know, it's not easy actually doing a podcast, finding the guests, making it work. And then you sat there doing it thinking, is this any good? Which I'm pretty confident that the bit that I do is good, but I'm not always certain about how fun it is. And that's despite my best efforts.

02:11 You know, you ask someone a question and then you've got no control over what they're going to say. And I'm also aware there's hundreds, if not millions, not millions, but so many podcasts have got interview formats. I do enjoy doing them, but I'm working on pulling together a regular group of dads to come on and basically be like the co-hosts on the subjects that we focus on in Team Superdad, the F5, I call them, fitness, focus, family, finances and fun. So if you are someone who's an expert in those areas, someone who wants to come on a podcast, maybe you've got your own podcast or you listen to another podcast and you think that would be a good person to team up with Johnny, then put me in touch with them and I'd love to explore that further with you.

02:56 Same as if you have got an idea for a guest, then by all means, let me have it. You know, people that have been through challenges or people that have performed at a highest level, people that you feel inspired about or you're just nosy about. Like I'm working on getting some DJs on because I'm just really fascinated as to how you maintain a family life when you're up all night, three or four times a week. How does that work? I'm pretty sure there's some divorces in amongst that circle. But, you know, maybe someone's been very successful at keeping their family together. So I'm working on my network to pull some of these people out.

03:40 Olympians, adventurers, just also normal dads. You know, it's great to hear from these crazy famous authors or influencers and whatnot. But I know as well, there's something inspirational about, sorry, that's my phone. Let me turn it off. There's something inspirational about everyday dads who are achieving the things that we all want to achieve. So that could be you as well. If you've got a cool story to share, then ping me a message and we'll get you on. So without further ado, as I mentioned, my own network, let's talk to Andy, hear his interview, and I'll see you on the other side. I look forward to it. Cheers.

04:24 Good evening. Welcome to the Team Super Dad podcast. My name is Johnny Jensen, as always. Welcome to dads all over the world and mums as well. I know that there are plenty of men and women who are tuning in to the Team Super Dad podcast. It's a real pleasure to have you here, as always, and also with our guest this evening, Andy. Hello to you, sir. How are you? I'm very well. How are you, Johnny? I'm very well too. Thank you. Very well. This is part of the F5 of Team Superdad. The F5 are focused fitness, finance, family, and fun. And this, you know, the subject of finance is very much about work and. and

05:01 our passions in the area of work. And, you know, what could be more important than actually the relationships we have with those people. And so Andy and I are recently connected through a mastermind that we're on. So it's a pleasure to meet you through that. I think it's always important to share those things because it's an example for other people to follow themselves. And then when you launched and posted about your new book going up on Amazon, I raced in and grabbed it at the launch prize. So thank you. I got a double whammy of benefits there. I got all the awesome content and for 99p. So kudos to you on the success of that. It went straight into that day, sort of bestsellers and

05:45 tailor that day and stuff. Yes. So when you publish on Amazon, you pick up to three categories for the book. And for the three categories on amazon.co.uk, we were number one new release in terms of sales for two or three days. Yeah, yeah. Two of the categories and number two in one of them. On dot-com, so in America, we got to number three in, I think, business communication. In Australia, we got number one in Germany as well. So it's a nice feeling. It's a really nice feeling. Yeah, totally. And, you know, for anyone listening, you know, any sense of achievement like that is worth striving for. And there's ways of doing it.

06:29 And you can leverage your network or leverage your connections as we're going to be talking about tonight. But most importantly, you've got to get up with your ass, write the book and put it out there. And so on so many levels, that is a massive success. So I acknowledge you for that. How many, this is not your first book, though, is it? No, this is my fourth. And in fact, you know, you talk about leveraging the network. With my second book, we were, I think we were the first authors to do what was called an Amazon bestseller plan. Our publishers actually bought a book out based on it called the Amazon Bestseller Plan. And we got to number two overall on Amazon on launch, selling 2,000 books in 48 hours, which was fantastic.

07:13 You know, I don't follow that route anymore because it's been done. It's been done and done. But that was great. But no, this is number four. Number five is with the publisher for hopefully later this year or early next year publication. Wow. So you are, you are, I want to turn the sound off here. And so what's your writing technique? Do you have a really solid plan or have you got an idea in your head and you just go like, where's the I tend to mind map? So I'll mind map the chapters, then on my map within the chapters up to, you know, I don't know how familiar you are with mind mapping, but I'll go to about three or four branches out.

07:52 And if I do that, it pretty much drops on the page. And you move stuff around and you add stuff as, you know, it then becomes a stream of consciousness. The two books this year are very different. So Connected Leadership was written in two weeks at the start of lockdown, published, you know, already. And that really was just me brain dumping, you know, here are my thoughts on these topics. A little bit of reference to other people, but I knew where those references were. Just ask, which is the next book, is a lot of research, over 50 interviews. We actually carried out an academic research project out of Chicago for the book. So it's a very, very different beast. And that's on its fourth

08:38 manuscript. It was meant to come out last year, but we just haven't, I haven't quite got it right. So some flow, others, you have to work a lot harder to get there. And have you found that it's got easier? Like, you know, as I imagined, you'd hope that when you start to do something, the confidence goes up or maybe just the self-belief kind of the same thing, but just a belief in your own writing. I've always been a confident writer. You know, before all of this, I edited, published a football fanzine. Oh, you're a Charlton fan, aren't you? Well, not just an average Charlton fan either.

09:17 A pretty serious Charlton fan. Back in the day, more than now, I think I've been turned off a lot by what's happened at the club over the last few years. But I was on the Supporters Club committee, used to run the away train travel, very, very involved. And I published the fanzine and we were voted number two in the UK by Total Football magazine. So I'd always had that confidence in my writing. There is a zone you get into. And what I found this year with Just Ask latest manuscript and with connected leadership is that I've really enjoyed it, the writing process.

09:53 And, you know, if there's a lot of. there was a world in which I could, I think, just be an author 80% of the time, I think my headspace at the moment, I would be, doesn't quite fit the bill for what I need to achieve, but it's something I enjoy doing. Yeah, totally. And it really appealed to me to get you on. And obviously, I invite people and they don't always come. So thank you for taking me up on the offer. But, you know, it's for me around the Team Superdad principles, you know, dads who want more, dads creating the life that they aspire to. You know, the people that we're connected to, both in work and in our social life, are so important to us.

10:37 And you mentioned in Connected Leadership about the six, oh my God, I always get this wrong. Seven stages of professional relationships. No, the one about six degrees of separation. There we go. Six degrees of separation. And so, you know, and also in the book, you've got the different, the, the, the, the, the graphic of how your professional life and the process between the relationship with that someone gets through, then to your friendship. Yes, that's the seven stages of professional relationship. Right, okay, yeah. And so for me and for any of the Team Superdad community listening, I really want them to hear that this is a conversation, not just about work, but about our social life and about the importance of everyone we meet and how we can stay in touch with those. My dad is a nutter for staying connected with people, writing letters,

11:22 and talking to all of his friends very much on an individual level. Even when he's taken a chunk of this is what we've been up to, he'll top and tail it and make it all very personal. And because I gave him a Dropbox account, which I helped look after in case he accidentally deletes things. And so I see his work-to-do list. He keeps a work-to-do list and it's like he has him on track each day. And I see he's got it in there. Call. He's got a list of people to call that week. And you've got underneath that, he's got a bunch of letters that he's going to write that week. And that was some of the elements in your book as well.

11:58 We'll dig into all of those. But it was just powerful to see that I know my dad as someone who's got friends all over the world and he's particularly, he's retired now, but in his work career, he was known, had a reputation, a bit of a maverick in many ways. But he fueled that. I can really see how much he fueled that. And it just amazes me. I think it amazes me as I was reading your new book, Connected Leadership. Some of what's in there is so obvious, but so powerful as well, because on the one hand, you say, well, that's obvious. But if you're not bloody doing it, it's a massive clanger.

12:38 And absolutely, like, how could you expect to succeed if you're not fostering those relationships or you're not going outside of your organization to build connections? So the thing I wanted to ask you sort of straight off the bat was why do people find it so hard to get out there and foster strong relationships? Where does that stem from? I think there's a combination of reasons. Part of it is laziness. That might be a bit harsh and maybe a bit on purpose as well to provoke. But from a professional perspective, one of the biggest challenges, the biggest challenge I get from people is time.

13:16 You're absolutely right. People know this stuff. This is basic. You know, I've got a tips book called It's Not Rocket Science very originally. Because I want to own that. I'm not pretending that I'm writing any sort of grand new theories. The key is that people don't implement this. And a lot of it is what takes our priority. So maybe laziness is a bit unfair. Not for everyone. There will be people where it is just laziness. I've had plenty of team members who could fall into that camp for sure. But it might be unfair for a lot of people, but prioritizing is a key thing because the thing about time management is that we prioritize what we think we'll get the return on.

13:58 And we don't think of the return we get on relationships. They're an afterthought. But if you think about it, you've got that finance focus and that's your career. That's your business if you run a business. It's your job, whatever it might be. Think about all the things that you need to achieve in order to be successful in that career, that business, that role. And then think how much easier they become when other people are there to help and support you. Whether that's making the right introductions, giving you advice, feedback, information, or just support, whether it's influencing key decision makers and saying, actually, this is the guy you need.

14:41 You know, all of those things smooth our path, make it easier. And if we can take, if we take that understanding and align the objectives which we're pursuing with the relationships we build, then suddenly our priorities might shift and we'll invest time in building relationships. Now, whether your dad's worked that out or he understands it instinctively, or he just gets sheer joy from staying in touch with people, he's doing the right thing. Do you know what? It's it's all of them, and my dad has done some bonker stuff in his life, like cool things.

15:19 Um, whether it's tea at Buckingham Palace, or tea at uh um houses of parliament, or invitations to Glenbourne, or having a Royal Ascot royal enclosure pass. Like he's he he's he doesn't like to not be able to make things happen. So, so when he's like, Oh, how'd you get in there? It will then become his mission to next time he goes there to be in there. And how he'll do it is he'll start to work his network and he'll find out introductions, he'll find out ways to how what's that about? How do I get in there? And then actually really start to also built into him as well is a nosiness, so he won't go in blind, he'll get very knowledgeable on the subject and then take that to person X or person Y.

16:07 And you said in a part of the book there, and I've mentioned it in the in the uh the this you know the post to promote the live stream. Um, it's not what you know, it's who knows you. And then inside of that comes the trust and the association. And so, when someone says, Oh, can I have a favor? Or can you tell me about that? They go, Oh, yeah, of course, John. I'd love to have my dad's name, John. I'd love to have lunch with you or something because they know, as well as them telling him something he wants to know, he's going to entertain and share with them all lunch. So, there is an instant win-win there, which he's built up over time. What's also happening is because your dad is clearly reaching out when he doesn't need something, people are happy to entertain him when he does.

16:51 Right, okay, yeah. Where people commonly make mistakes, and I'm at the wrong end of this on a regular basis, is they don't stay in touch, they don't show any interest in you until they need you, and that's things and people don't appreciate that. And what your dad's doing is he's reaching out with no end in mind. Speaking to a colleague of mine during the lockdown, and he was reaching out to clients just to say, How are you? And the response he was getting from clients was, No, we're not buying at the moment. And that told me straight away he hadn't previously been saying, How are you?

17:33 Because they weren't used to it. So, it's about Stephen Covey and the Seven Habits of Home. Oh, I love that book. Yeah, that's one of my early personal development books. That was, yeah. Yeah, so he talks about emotional bank accounts. And he said that you wouldn't go to a bank and seek to withdraw money if you haven't invested some money in there in the first place. And relationships are the same. Yeah. Now, where I take that off into two different directions post-COVID: one is I might invest, I might deposit £10 in my bank account. Let's say I take £10 into the bank and say, put that in my bank account. If I then go back to withdraw that £10, I don't get the same note back.

18:17 And similarly, with your network, you invest in your network and you withdraw from your network, but it might not be to and from the same person. So, the other thing that's happening with your dad is his reputation means people want to help him. It's not the fact that he's calling in quid pro quos, but people know that if they, if they needed something or if they wanted a source of information or anything like that, they could come to him. So, he's invested in his network as a whole and he can withdraw from his network. The other extension I add to the emotional bank accounts from Covi is that you wouldn't just keep depositing and never withdrawing.

18:56 And where a lot of people fall down, you said, Why don't people use this? The other reason people don't do this is because they're frightened to ask. And this comes up so often, they're frightened to make that withdrawal. So, they're going into the bank all the time and go £10, £10, £10, £10. Right, yeah, yeah. When they need to withdraw, they get to the door of the branch. They think, oh, I can't go and ask for that money. So, then their networking becomes exhausting basically because they're always the one that's always helping out or entertaining, taking them for lunch, never actually asking for anything back. Yeah, and I should reinforce it's never a quid pro quo. It's never, I've helped you, therefore, you owe me.

19:37 It's I have invested in my network, and my network knows that. So, if I need help, I can turn to my network for that support. And by network, I mean on. that seven stages of professional relationship, the people who know, like, and trust you, not people you've just met. Yeah. And it doesn't matter if you've helped them in the past, as long as they know you would help them in the future if they needed you to. Yeah. And that whole know, like, trust has become sort of an internet kind of moniker. But it must have always existed. Was it? Did it. Did it, was it called, was it called something before the internet was always been a no-like trust, do you think? I mean, Penny, I'm sure you know Penny's book was called Know Me, Like Me, Trust. Penny Powers book was called Know Me, Like Me, Trust Me.

20:22 I think I read that expression back in the early days of social media. And I think it was coined by Bob Berg in his referrals. And Bob's book would be going back possibly to the 90s. Yeah. I think it was Bob that coined it. Good knowledge, Andy. Good knowledge. And so we didn't really introduce you that much either. But your reputation goes back a long way. Are you saying I'm old? No, no, but you said, you know, this is very much about the relationships and people need to understand about relationships. You know, the size of your network is pretty extensive. You said on your LinkedIn profile, 30,000 contacts.

21:07 You featured in some of the national newspapers as well around that subject. What size network is ideal? Should people be constantly trying to get more and more people in, or is it about making the best out of the ones you've got? Yeah, I'm not sure whether 30,000 contacts. Is it on your profile? I'll have to go back and check. That might be someone else's profile. Sorry about that. Oh, no, you might be right. Yeah. Don't you disservice. My business strap line is connecting is not enough because I don't believe in the culture of connecting for the sake of it, the click exchanges on LinkedIn and think that we're connected now.

21:46 To me, it's about the depth of your relationship as much as the breadth of the network. And you mentioned earlier, we've touched on a couple of times the seven stages of professional relationship. And I start out that section of the book by talking about how we get networks wrong and how we misunderstand what a network looks like. Because you talked about the average size of a network or the ideal size of a network. A network doesn't have a finite size. It's multi-layered and full of moving parts. So I meet you at an event. So let's say when we met online a few weeks ago at the first session of the new mastermind, and we didn't really talk

22:30 much on that half day that I was on the call. I saw you there. I heard you talk. You have probably heard me talk. If we'd exchanged something in the next few days, we'd have recognized each other from that interaction. And you can take that into the physical world post-lockdown. Lockdown, that we bump into each other at a dinner party, for example. We chat for a while. If we meet each other the following week, we recognize each other. I call that stage one in the seven stages of professional relationships, recognize. But then when we have a bit more of a conversation, we get to know each other. I know who you are. I know what you stand for. So what we're starting to do is build a wall around the outside of the network for each of us as respective individuals.

23:15 Yeah, and this picture's in your book, isn't it? It's like a target, but with seven rings. Yeah, it's a seven. I describe it as a side section of an onion. Good. That's just for people who are listening, they can now picture that in their mind. Because this is, you know, in other words, like a ladder right down to the middle of that really close relationship. So yeah, so please carry on. By the way, it's not you that's got the, it was, but it's George. I interviewed a guy called George McGeering in the States. He runs a couple of different recruitment businesses. Ultra Marathon runner. I interviewed him on last Friday. So I do apologize. That's his profile. And for recruitment, which is where LinkedIn built its initial strength, size of network is hugely important.

23:55 They don't worry about the depth of the relationship because all they're going to do is they're going to find the right candidate because they know someone who knows them. Second, the third level connections. And they don't wait for the introduction. They're not worried about a trusted connection. They'll just go, Johnny, I saw that you're looking for this job. I found you on LinkedIn. Do you want, you know, we've got an opportunity for you. So that's not, that's, that's effectively marketing rather than networking or professional. Yeah, yeah, trusted, trusted relationships. Yeah. So with the seven stages, what you're doing is you're taking people on a journey into the depth of your network. So from that recognize and know, we go to like, trust, support, advocate.

24:38 And then you've got friend as the final. final level. So, when you talk about the ideal size of a network, I would much rather have a network of A, the right people who can well position to help me, as well as people I get on well with and have a rapport with, um, and a diverse network. So, I get lots of different ideas, different inputs. I know what's going on in worlds other than my own. But I would rather have 500 people where I've got reasonably deep relationships, or even 100 people where I've got reasonably deep relationships, than 30,000 people where I've exchanged a click and they wouldn't know me from Adam.

25:18 Yeah, of course. So, that's why I can't answer the question of what's no, it's an interesting. I think there was a, I've read, I know Thomas and Penny, that's why I've mentioned them both. And Thomas is big on his sort of network stuff. And I remember him sharing a few things ages back about the perfect size of your network, 250 or 750 or something like that. That comes from another book as well, isn't it? Thomas and I toured Scotland together. Oh, you know Thomas, do you? Okay. Oh, well, we talked. We've known each other for 20 years. Best part. So, were you an economy member? I was an economist. So, me too. I was back in the day. So, I was running a business network, a physical business network. And we founded at about the same time as Ecademy, 1998. And we would have,

26:04 I remember people, someone recommended Academy to me when it was just an email. And I joined quite early on. I was a Black Star member towards the end. But Thomas and I, and you'll be going back into the early 2000s, about 2002, 3, I would think. We toured Scotland together to academy groups. And we did a talk, The Art and Science of Networking. And I talked about it as an art. And Thomas talked about the science, the numbers. And he was saying, if you meet X number of people a day, you will earn X amount of money. Now, we have very different approaches. I can see straight away. I had a feeling you'd know Thomas. That's why I said it. And there is value. You know,

26:49 there is value in Thomas's approach. It's not my approach and vice versa. And you've got to get what's right for you, the balance from it. Yeah, that's true. That's the true adage in all these things is to is to have a broad understanding, take on board bits of information, then work out what works right for you. Something that really struck me as important, you know, you've got, you've got one of the parts of Team Super Dad is about fun. And it can happen in life for me, talking sweezies to talk about my own experiences, but that's where the main inspiration for Team Super Dad came from. Is such a lot of fun at a younger age, quite a lot of fun as you're going into your 30s. Then you get married and have kids and seem to have not a lot of fun.

27:34 Yeah, different types of fun, but there's degrees within that actually when you can you start to be like, oh, well, this isn't fair. And how did my life end up like this? But actually, what's happened is the things that you enjoy doing, you're doing less of. And then the things that you naturally, those like-minded people, you're seeing less of. So I really, really was interested in your book in the connected leadership, just about that strategically mapping out the people that you want to connect with because people could do this both in their work life and in their social life. I'm fed up not having anyone to go and talk about music to. Well, go and network with some DJs or whatever kind of music that you're into, likely if it's football or chess or swimming or whatever the thing might be.

28:17 And clearly work is, it's a, it's, if it's going to get a job or if it's growing your business or if it's looking to get headhunted or something, I can understand that. But can you talk a little bit about that, how people would strategically map out and build their network? Yes. So, I mean, first of all, taking what I've written as a professional book and applying the personal, I can see how you can do that and how I've done that. You know, I'm a single guy and I live just outside London. And over the last, actually, it's five years now, I've been very closely connected into a group of friends who, I mean, it's changing, you know, as time goes on.

28:59 But at the beginning, we're predominantly single, party together, you know, picnic together normally. You know, tomorrow night there's a quiz night with a lot of the group, but have a lot in common. So I got introduced into that group. And okay, I was lucky I got introduced in. But if you are just moved to a big city, for example, and you don't know anyone, or you're just divorced and you want a new social life might be a good example. It's finding groups like that and having the courage to connect into them. I live just outside London. I'm not from where I... i you know i've lived here a long time but i'm not from here i and it's a very very local area you know a lot of people who live here were brought up here went to school here so they're all very interconnected so i had to work extra hard to build my networks in my local area and to literally break into some of those groups

29:52 absolutely and and it's um and it's not easy um but you so you can be strategic about it what the way i position it in the book the book i'm talking about professional uh connecting and if you're comfortable go with that i just wanted people to hear the yeah the connection like the the relatedness between it is like actually you might you might quite naturally think about mapping out your work network and planning how i'm going to get a new job or planning how i'm going to acquire a new business or whatever but then but then go home and be lonely and actually if you've done it at work strategically plan out your your personal life as well so yeah feel free to to to to share on it from the work well i'll share a couple of things on that then so so first of all what's in the book so in the book we've got i've called it the relationship chart in the book my sort of working title for it is the three i pie um but but it's i've also got something else um called pie in the book so i

30:46 just called it the relationship chart there um and the three i pie says there's three types of people you need on a project if you want to achieve something on a project you need three types of people in each stakeholder group so stakeholder group might be inside your own organization inside a client's organization in your industry you know there can be different examples of stakeholders yeah that was good when you spoke about pharmaceutical like a stakeholder group in a client group would be i'm trying to sell to this company so i need to influence the person who's going to use the product the person who's going to buy the product the person who signs off on the product like they're your stakeholders in that client business yeah so the three eyes in there you mentioned

31:26 one of them which is influencers who who do people listen to you know who's whose word is going to carry some strength when they when they're sat around a board meeting or a committee meeting discussing your proposal you know one of the biggest mistakes a lot of people make when they're trying to influence decisions is that they rely on one person and that one person might be carrying that case into a meeting with 10 other people none of whom know you or know the case and they can be drowned out very easily so you need to know who the key influencers around that table are the second are intermediaries or introducers the people that can make the introductions that open doors for you you know you need to know that key person they will

32:06 they will make the connection for you and the third are sources of information insight and ideas so they can tell you what people are thinking they can give you feedback on your ideas before you push them forward they can tell you who the key movers and shakers are so that almost comes first so from a professional standpoint you need those three those three eyes within any stakeholder group so when you're looking at a project you can say okay who who are the most influential people here uh who do we need to be connected to who can make introductions who can give me insight and you can say who do i know who can do that but i haven't got a strong enough

32:46 relationship and you know you need to build a relationship with them who do i know who can do that i've got the strong relationship but i'm not asking them so you you say well maybe i should ask for their help and who don't i know and i need to find and i need to build a relationship with just to balance that off because that can all sound very cold when we're talking about a human to human interaction yeah you you i talk in the book as well about having a balance between a partnership or a strategic mindset which is what i've just outlined these are the people i need to meet to move my agenda forward and and the people you just get on really well with you know and

33:26 that's what i call a relational mindset so it's okay to have both but when you are engaging with people whether they are people you've identified and targeted or whether they're just people you have a rapport with you treat them all the same and you treat them authentically humanly um uh and in a relationship based way so the strategy sits behind the way you engage with people and you let the relationship grow but you can be strategic in thinking about it so that's that that relationship chart three i pie idea well and that that um you shared about one of your early stages of your career the you know the receptionists at the at the yeah the

34:04 benefits agency and that that really i really related to that as well just i don't know whether it's been part of my growing up or or what but i've always found it really easy to talk to people and i can't walk past a receptionist every day and not know about him or her like it just it just occurs to me to chat to that person and and like you said in the book it's like it when there's good things things on offer, or when there's a free something, or when like whatever people don't realize how influential those reception kind of front-of-house roles can be. And you know, when you get the last sandwich every day, maybe you should make better friends with the person who's signing off the sandwiches.

34:47 And I think in your example, it was an even more powerful benefit that you got from those people that were processing the applications. Yeah, and there was nothing strategic about it back then. I'd never heard of any of this. I just probably hated being at my desk. Just being a good guy. But the point I made in my book was that my colleagues were much more transactional with them and they didn't get the support that I did. On the point of receptionists, it's interesting. I read quite a few articles over the last couple of years where companies are asking receptionists when they're interviewing for jobs. What happens is if, let's say you have a job interview, you walk in, you go up to the receptionist and you say, I'm here for a job interview.

35:27 They then get you to sit down, send you through whatever it may be. Between the time that you are invited into the interview room or between the time you're sitting down and you being invited into the interview room, the interviewer has spoken to the receptionist for their impression. Yeah. Did you take your headphones out? Did you, you know, turn your mobile phone off? Were you polite? Were you civil? And people are losing jobs before they even walk into the interview because of the way they treat the receptionists. And I think that's an incredibly powerful story. It's you know, the classic analogy is the dating one where you'll be judged by your date by the way you treat the waiters.

36:08 Yes, of course. And, you know, an astute dates will look at that and see how you treat other people who could be perceived, shouldn't, but could be perceived as in a you know, subservient to you. Yeah. And I think that's a really good example of that. Well, I teach to my kids all the time. You know, I've got this adage of good things happen to good people. And that's a really simple concept for kids to understand. When we go to the swimming bars, we talk to all the front of house people. And what that means is sometimes when we're late for swimming, we just run through without having to sign in on stuff because they know who we are. The ladies at Greg's, it's not that they're ladies, but they are all ladies in Greg's. But we say hello to them. And not every time, but

36:53 on more than one occasion, my kids have been given an extra donut or something else. And they just look at me and go, they're like, so, and they don't think of that now as some random piece of good fortune. They connect the when we're nice and say hello to people, when we pay attention, we get things work out for us. And I'm not trying to big myself up there. I just, I love that that's something that I've instilled in them. And then when it comes back, I'm like, yes, because it meant that I wasn't talking nonsense. I remember back in the golden days when Charlton were in the Premier League, I used to walk into the Royal Oak, which was our pub at football, and it's like the home pub.

37:37 And I'd walk in and it would be five deep at the bar. And there were a couple of the barmaids there, and they'd see me walk in and they would pour my pint while they were serving other people and others were queuing. And they just put, I'll go to my normal spot and they bring it over. And that was all, that was all professional relationship. It was because I spoke to them, I knew their names, I chatted to them, I flirted with them a bit, and they knew my drink. Yeah, that's not you being Billy Big Balls, that's just you being a good guy over an extended period of time. I had Damien Matthews on the expert hangout a couple of weeks ago. He did some great stuff at Charlton. Yeah, top bloke, really top bloke. And Chris Parker is a guy I work with.

38:17 Not like, do you know how many Charlton fans, you know, but I have got a good work associate and friend, Chris Parker, who's a big Charlton fan as well. Not in my circle. I'm probably more likely to recognize him by face. Yeah, you may well do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm a Spurs fan for my for my sins. So what's the biggest mistake that people make in, and it might well be obvious, really, maybe it's just not bothering, but what's a common mistake that people make in poorly managing their relationships? How long we got? Think about a business, right? Someone, I think you probably mentioned a couple of them already, but

39:02 if there's a business leader, I'm just reading The Trillion Dollar Coach as well, which is a fabulous book about how I think his name's Bill as well. How he helped coach many Silicon Valley companies into trillion dollar sort of status. And so much of that is about the power of relationships and how bosses treat their staff and how they network with each other. um but what are some of the perhaps this is obvious but to hell with it let's go with it what are some of the big mistakes that people make some of the biggest ones not following up with people oh yeah i love that was a 20 was it 24 7 7 30. nice so so when i meet you the first time i follow up within 24 hours and people say that's a bit desperate isn't it to which my reply is it's not dating You want to remind them about yourself while it's still fresh in their minds.

39:52 And I'm now kicking myself in my head because I know that there were a couple of follow-ups I needed to do today. That's what your Google speakers for now. I tell my Google speaker, everything I need to be reminded of, I tell you. I use something called follow upthen.com, which is normally brilliant. I don't know why it hasn't. It's probably come through this evening because I probably did it on Friday evening. So it's probably done it around now. But with follow upthen.com, if I send an email, I'll put bcc follow upthen.com. Yeah. And I get the email back in my inbox when I tell it. So it might be Monday at follow upthen.com and I get the email back on Monday, which I didn't today.

40:31 But anyway, so you follow up within 24 hours. And then you follow up again after seven days and again after 30 days. What you're looking for is ideally three two-way touch points. So genuine conversation. So I will do things like, I might send you an email the next day. Great to chat to you yesterday. You know, really interesting conversation. Let me know when the podcast is released. I might send you a LinkedIn connection request a week later rather than in the moment. So I'm separating two touch points and using them as two different opportunities to connect.

41:10 But I'll personalize the LinkedIn connection request. Yep. And then after 30 days, maybe we meet for a coffee in normal times or we go for a virtual coffee or I send you an article and I say, I saw this and I thought of you because it was based on something that we said in our discussion. You know, it says an article on Spurs and I say, I remember you're a fan, you know, saw this. If you can make it about their personal interests above their professional interests, it's even more powerful. It shows you are listening. Yeah, I did. The guy I connected with the other day on LinkedIn, he sent me the connection request. I accepted it, but I replied back, hi, nice to meet you.

41:54 How do you think we can help each other out? I'm really interested to know more. And he came back and said, oh, blindly, not many people do that. And it would be easy to bring, someone listening to this might hear you and think, well, that's a bit cheesy or that's a bit full-on or whatever. But actually, if you imagined it in real life. No, it's not at all. Completely normal. It's actually, it's less normal to be ignored, clearly. Completely. I love the way you put that. A similar example, you know, when I was doing a lot of stuff on networking skills, one of the biggest challenges people have is remembering names. Or my biggest challenge as they get older. And one of the technique that works best for me is repetition.

42:38 So if I repeat your name three or four times when I first meet you, it's more likely to stick, particularly if I add reading it. So if you give me a business card or you're wearing a name badge, everyone says, oh my God, that sounds so false. But when you actually play it out, it doesn't. So you're Johnny. Johnny, good to meet you. So tell me, Johnny, what is it that brought you here? I said it four times there. It sounded perfectly natural. Now, obviously, when you're role-playing, it stands out that bit more. In a general conversation, not at all. And it's exactly the same with these touch points. It sounds like overkill, but messaging you the next day and then seven days later and then 30 days later.

43:20 Have you got other stuff going on in between? Of course you have. Exactly. So it's not like you're sitting there waiting for the next touch point. No, and anyone conscientious enough to know that's what you're doing will probably be impressed. Not like, what a freak. He's really putting an effort into connecting with me. I try and make it as natural as possible. Of course, of course. That's key. I think I wouldn't provide a formula for the words to be used in connection requests, emails, or anything else, for example. Again, going back to the networking skills thing, I hate books that say, here's 20 questions to ask someone at a networking event because you become a robot.

44:01 You don't become authentic. I shouldn't have to tell you what to say to someone in conversation. That's a different skill set entirely. And this is the same thing. It either flows naturally or it doesn't. And that's a bloody good indication about whether that relationship will evolve or not. And a two-second look at their profile. profile. Oh, she lives in San Diego. Oh, she surfs. Oh, she's got two kids. Like, if you can't find a reason to say hi and it was good to meet you yesterday, then you're going to struggle anyway. But you're not going to connect with everyone you meet and you're not going to want to follow up with everyone you meet. That's not what I'm suggesting. And that's a really important point because it goes back to time management.

44:45 I don't have time to follow up with everyone I have a conversation with. It's when they fit my strategic goals we talked about earlier. We have something really powerful in common, or we just got on really well. Yeah. That's really important. I'm just going to flick into your book here because there was a chapter I'd got to where I was particularly nurturing professional relationships. Oh, that was that. That was the circle with the onion in. Oh, there we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, oh, never eat alone. That's it. Totally. Grant Cardone, I think in his 10x book, he talks about don't you ever go for lunch on your own?

45:35 And he doesn't like people sitting in work eating at their desk because he's like, you should be taking, like, you should be out for lunch with someone. Go and have lunch with some people. And so when I noticed that, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I remember that from one of Grant's books. People, do you think bosses encourage that enough? Or they're so focused on work, work, work that they're almost happy to see their staff sitting eating their lunch at the desk. They are obsessed with short-term targets on the whole. You know, the last chapter of the book is all about creating a relationship culture in your organization where you actually trust your staff and you give them that leeway.

46:18 Now, you know, you mentioned the story of the receptionists in the benefits agency earlier. One of the things that happened there is my colleagues sat, we worked on flexi time. So my colleagues had the shortest possible lunch so they could go home at half past three. So they would eat their sandwiches at their desk and then carry on. I would be going out for lunch every day with people from all around the office. That was just my nature. I hate this job. I've got to get something positive out of the day, particularly within Croydon. And I lived in Hendon. I was correct. Oh, okay. An hour and a half each way every day. So somewhere I didn't like to a job I hated that was making me ill.

47:00 At least I could enjoy that lunch hour up to two hours because I was on flexi time. You know, I still made up the hours. And I was doing it with people from all over the office. Now, my colleagues probably thought I was skiving. I probably thought I was skyving as well. It's with benefit of hindsight, I was building the relationships that made my job easier. And I think that, you know, Never Eat Alone is the title of a very good book by Keith Ferrazzi. That's what I reference in the book. And one of the tips that I share a lot is that when you travel, you know, who else do you know in that area?

47:37 And by travel, that could just as easily be, I work in the west end of London, but I've got a meeting in Docklands as I'm in Singapore. You know, it can be either extreme. But who else do you know in that area that you're going to that you could catch up with? If I'm in meetings in London and I'm not, I don't work from London unless I have meetings there, I should be looking for someone to have lunch with to use the time effectively. But you have to get the balance between building those relationships, nurturing, maintaining those relationships and your mental health.

48:17 And then your waistline. If I'm in meetings all day, I want some downtime. I want some me time, particularly if you have introvert tendencies, which means that you draw your energy from solitude. So, and I've noticed over the years I've been doing this, I've been in this game 21 years, it's enough to make anyone an introvert. That side of me has come out a lot more. So, actually, I've enjoyed a lot of lockdown more than I thought I would. And that means that I have to feed both sides. So, allowing myself to be on my own is absolutely fine.

48:54 It's about finding the right balance. Yeah. And that comes back to actually having that sensible number of connections. Yeah. Seeing where, and again, in fact, all the points we've made here, which is obviously why the book flows so nicely, is mapping out what you need to get out of this, looking for the gaps in your network. What are my goals? Who do I need to connect with? And then, of course, you're saying, right, well, I'm going to know how much time have I got to got to do this. So which are the ones I'm actually going to actively go out to get seek to spend time with. And just to close the loop on that, on that benefits agency story,

49:31 tell everyone what you found out some years after you left. Oh, well, I found out that so basically I was making decisions on social funds loan and grant applications. Those applications were given to the receptionists. They would give them to the client. Now, because of budgets, most of them didn't get what they wanted. They would scream and shout or cry or whatever and complain to the receptionists. And the receptionist would decide whether they could be entitled to a review or not. And the receptionists, I found out years later, were standing up for my decisions.

50:11 And as long as they were reasonable, they were standing up for them and saying, no, this has been perfectly made. There's no grounds for review. You need to be on your way. Whereas for some of my colleagues who are a little bit more offhand, to say the least with the receptionist, didn't focus on the relationships with them. They went, yeah, you can have a review. Which meant they had to have a jitty, awkward interview with an angry person who had had their application declined. So that time that you invested in their lunch, inadvertently, you were improving your experience of work by having a nice lunch with these people.

50:50 Which goes back to my point much earlier about the impact our professional relationships have on our ability to achieve our objectives. I didn't know that at the time. But by investing in the relationships, by going for lunch with them, by stopping down and having a chat with them when I was on reception rather than just dropping off forms, that helped me. It saved me time in the long run. So it's being aware of that and investing in that. Yeah. Love that. So powerful. And I mean, I talked to a moment ago about our kids and stuff. I think for teenagers, this can start at any age, really.

51:32 You know, obviously university, oh, again, you mentioned in the book about people who go on MBA courses, they go on the courses on the further studies just as much to build the alumni network as they do to get the knowledge. But, you know, increasingly with social media, our kids are going to be building these networks from as soon as they've got an account, basically. Yeah. One of the other points I make, and I think I know I make it in Just Ask, my next book, I think I make it in Connected Leadership. I'm pretty sure I do, is that this, we're now introducing into the workforce the most connected generation there has ever been. That these people are your employees or they're potentially your competition for jobs.

52:16 And they are connected up to their eyeballs. The story I use is that when I was 25, I backpacked. Yeah, it's in the book. The guys in Australia and South Africa and stuff. I traveled for 15 months. And what happens if you've backpacked, you'll know the story. You land somewhere. So let's say you get to Sydney, you go to a backpackers hostel and you connect with all the people in there and they become your best mates for the next six weeks and you do everything together. And then you go north and they go south. And back then, there was no Facebook. There was no email. There were no mobile phones. We wrote physical letters.

52:57 Scrap of paper with a phone number and address on, yeah. Yeah, that's what you had. I think I had a file of facts. And I still got it somewhere with all these things. I got back 15 months later. These people who are like my best friend in the world, I'm trying to remember them. And then, of course, the trouble is I get back 15 months later. In some cases, they've been already been back for 14 months because when we met, they were at their end of their trip. Yeah, of course. Short trip. They're back in their ordinary life. That's a different life for them. Or I'm back and they're still traveling. So one person from those days, we absolutely stayed in touch. He's my best mate. But other than that, I think I met up with one girl who I was really close to.

53:41 And it just wasn't the same back in the UK. I think that's it. You know, from all these people I met over 15 months, we didn't stay in touch because we didn't have the ability to do so. Now, if someone goes backpacking, my niece last year, I think, did Nicaragua, Japan, Australia, and so on. Of course, she'll be in touch with all of those people for the rest of her life, potentially. You know, and they'll stay inside in mind, even if they're not talking. talking regularly you know i i've reconnected with some some um some people from from back in the day you know people from school and sixth form there are a handful of from each in my social networks and interestingly one of them bought the book um last week on publication and emailed me and we're facebook friends but

54:29 we haven't seen each other for 32 years and he said um I enjoy following you know what you're doing and so forth. But that's an outlier for me. But my niece's generation, that's their whole life ahead. So if you think as an employer and you're recruiting between two people and one of them has the old farts network and one of them has the Millennials Network. And if you understand as an employer how to leverage the networks of your staff by giving them free reign to build and maintain relationships, by giving them reasons to talk positively about working for you, think about the source of future employees, clients, ideas, suppliers, whatever that you could have at your

55:14 fingertips through those expanded networks. Yeah. Well, in my former guise of digital marketing consultant and agency owner and digital marketing director, I would coach in clients that exact message. Like, you've got to cut these guys loose so they can connect with loads of people. You've got to give them enough space to say what they really want, because if you don't, that's probably going to backfire on you with prospective hires who are going to look at you and go, why would I want to go and work for someone who puts that much control over their staff?

55:55 And then there's third point. Oh, and the third point was just as far as the individuals went, I was like, you don't know that this job's forever. And if you get down to the next, the last two at your next interview and one of them's got 2,000 LinkedIn connections and you've got 200, well, you're either going to be very confident in your 200 or they're going to find that's a very obvious reason for them. If you're down to the last two, you're probably pretty much the same person. So they just need a single reason. Yeah. Yeah, completely agree. And it's not an excuse just to go out and chase connections, but if you have a professional relationship strategy, you can then sit in the meeting and talk about the value you can bring through the power of your relationship.

56:42 Yeah, that is that is powerful. That's the key. Yeah. Yeah. What can you bring to this business? Well, of course, you've seen my credentials, but I'd like to talk about my network and the people I know. Yeah, that's very powerful. Awesome. Well, it's been lovely chatting to you, Andy. What's next for you? Obviously, the next book, you're just working on finishing it up. But what do you think post-Corona? Have you given much thought to how the world looks from a relationships and networking and connections point of view? Yeah, you haven't got to the afterword of the book yet, have you? Because that's what it's all about. Okay, cool. So give me the heads up before I get to it. I'm on chapter eight. I wrote the book in the first two weeks of lockdown.

57:27 And so what I did for the afterword is I wrote 10 things that I'd observed in those first two weeks and how I thought that would impact us going forward. And some of the things I looked at were, for example, we're going to be more used to meeting people virtually. You know, everyone talks about Zoom and Teams and so forth. So that will naturally come into play a lot more, but it still doesn't fill the gap. You can't read body language, read nuances, really engage in the same way. So, for example, right now, in order to be looking you in the eye, I'm looking at the camera lens, not at you.

58:06 Oh, yeah, of course. So you can't make genuine eye content. I have a choice of looking, you know, obviously, if you're listening to this on a podcast, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But we are doing it. That's just right. I'm looking at you and I am looking you in the eye, but of course, you're looking at me and I'm not looking in the eye. I'm looking down, slightly down from the camera. Exactly. So I'm trying to balance that in the conversation now. But that makes it harder to genuinely engage and listen in the same way. So things like that mean that there are people saying everything can be done remotely. I don't believe it will. I think we don't get the same value on a Zoom call as we do face to face.

58:48 And by the way, I've noticed a lot of my clients in corporates still don't want to do video conferencing. And secondly, we miss that human-to-human connection. So I think what we'll see is a slight shift rather than a sea change in the way that we engage with each other. So I think that will be key. Another point that I talked about was the importance of empathy. And what's really stood out for me during lockdown is how is the impact your manner and your words can have on people through no fault of your own. Now, that's always been there, but it's heightened by the sensitivities of COVID-19. So let's say, for example, and this has happened to me. I'll give you an example that's happened to me.

59:33 Someone had told me that she was going to review my book for me, the next one, to give me some feedback. And I really needed it back and she'd promised and I hadn't heard back. And she sent me a message saying, Andy, I'm really sorry. How are you, Andy? Look, I'm really sorry. This has happened. This has happened. Blah, blah, blah. And I said, no, that's fine. And I thought I was being okay. But I just said, look, that's fine. It's too late, but don't worry about it. And my tone in my head was understanding. What she got was a text that went, that's fine. It's too late. Don't worry about it. Oh, text message.

1:00:11 And she'd been furloughed. And she'd said, how are you? Now, I often disregard a how are you as a throwaway comment. Her reply was, you didn't even ask how I was. You didn't know about, asked about me being furloughed. And now, this has happened four or five times to me during the lockdown that it's not happened before. So I think empathy has to be dialed up. And we have to, I think we're having to learn to be more empathetic or empathic, I think the word is. I certainly am. So I think that that's another key advance for me. Yeah, empathic, like considering other people's

1:00:49 feelings, like where they're at when they ask that. Yeah. Well, that's, John, well, that's another way in which all this thing that has happened could push us back to a more natural way where we do give a bit more thought to people, where we do perhaps pick up the phone. And I mean, I always try to ring people rather than text people. And I tell my kids that as well. Oh, I'll text them. I was like, don't bloody text them. Ring them. Ring them up. If they don't answer, then send them a text. Don't do it the other way around. There you go. That's a lesson for everybody to take on board. It's just little things. You know, I've tried to do because it's been so busy the last few weeks that it's been hard to find time to talk to people unscheduled.

1:01:32 So that like today, I went for a half hour walk and I made a phone call I need to make so I could combine the fresh air and the exercise with a call that, you know, rather than send an email or a message. And it is little things like that. So I think that empathy would be key. And the next book, the one that's with the publisher at the moment, is all about being vulnerable and the importance of being vulnerable. And I think that aligned to the empathy is the vulnerability. The two go hand in hand. And if we can create out of this, I think we're already on this journey. You know, the rise of Brene Brown as an example will show you that people are more receptive.

1:02:12 The work that Prince William and Harry have done around mental health in men, for example, the number of footballers that have come out and talked about their suicidal thoughts. And, you know, one of those stories is in the book. I think it's taken us on that journey. COVID-19 has accelerated it. And that combination of empathy and vulnerability could be hugely powerful going forward. Yeah. People being more real with each other. Definitely. Yeah. Fabulous way to end, I think, Andy. Absolutely beautiful. So usual thing, where can people connect with you? Or obviously you want them to go and get the book.

1:02:49 Having speed read it today up to chapter eight, I can fully endorse it. I think that employers could give this to their, you know, any member of staff, but certainly any member of staff that they want to go out and network and want to instill upon them the importance of building strong relations. I think it's both practical and essential information for anybody, whether as a reminder or as a teaching tool, basically. So congratulations on that. Where should people go to get that? And how can people connect with you? Okay, so the easiest way to find the book, either go onto Amazon and just search by name and you've got my author page with all my books or go to andylapata.com and it's L-O-P-A-T-A forward slash connected leadership.

1:03:35 And on that page, there's all the Amazon domains at which the book can be found. So if you're not in the UK, you can hopefully find your local Amazon domain there. For those people who are listening to us live, get it tonight because you'll save some money because it's the last day of the day. The last day of the launch week. Good. 99p. That is an absolute steal. Go out there and get it. Yeah. And it goes up in the morning. So grab that now. and yeah, for with a surname like mine, I'm pretty easy to find. Uh, linkedin.com/slash IN slash networking strategy. Um, feel free to follow me. I talked about not exchanging clicks, so follow me and engage with me through the posts first would be preferable.

1:04:18 Um, I've got a Facebook page again slash networking strategy. Uh, and I use my name on Twitter and Instagram. Andy Lopata is the username on both, and then the website andylapata.com or lopata.co.uk. Neatly positioned behind your left ear. Andy, it's great. We're going to have a whole seven months together on the mastermind, but uh, it's been a magical way to get to know you more. So, um, I'm looking forward to that. But also, thank you so much for your time tonight. A pleasure. Thanks for having me on, Johnny. Yeah, really enjoyed it. Hey, I hope you enjoyed that.

1:04:56 Andy, as I mentioned, is on a mastermind with me. If you've been in a mastermind, you'll know about the power of working with other people in a close, a close circle, sharing knowledge and information, supporting each other, having fun together, basically just not doing it all on your own. Whatever level you're at, you know, elite people have coaches, they have masterminds. If you've read Napoleon's Heel, Think and Grow Rich, you'll be very familiar with where this concept of masterminding comes from. But even way back, you can go back to the Stoics in Greek times and all that sort of thing. Clever people hang out together, you know, and they share knowledge and

1:05:40 evolve. And that's what it's really about. So if that sounds interesting to you, don't struggle alone. Come on over to teamsuperdad.com and become part of the Team Superdad community, maybe one of the Hero Academy groups, one of the accountability and success groups, works like a mastermind, but really expanding our knowledge and implementing success tactics into our life. So many of us listen to books, listen to podcasts, and then actually the difference comes when we implement it. So that's kind of my story. If you've not heard my story, then go back into some of the old episodes and perhaps listen to the trailer, the Team Super Dad podcast trailer, and just get familiar with where I've come in my journey and how that ended up with the Team Superdad community and all the work that we do with dads creating their best life ever around the world.

1:06:31 Thanks so much for listening. I can't wait to join you here again. Don't forget to share and review this and I'll see you on the next podcast. This is Johnny, Team Super Dad out. Bye. This has been Team Super Dad. Find us at teamsuperdad.com.