Ezra Vancil Addiction, Divorce and the Rebuild Nobody Saw Coming

00:00 It was, it seems like such the smallest thing when I say it. But so I was in and out of mental hospitals, jail, therapists and psychiatrists never ended. It's just like a rotating door. I finally landed in front of this therapist who is just the only one I could afford but she said something to me after I told her my what's going on in my life and everything and she goes oh you can be happy? And it shocked me! Welcome to The Jonnie Jensen Show, where modern dads discover how to create the true riches relationships and results they deserve. Get your High Value Man Blueprint and join our community at highvaluemanproject.com Let's go!

00:50 Welcome to The Jonnie Jensen Show. It is great to have you here, whether your subscribing and or coming for the first time it is my pleasure to welcome you tonight's guest on the Comeback King series is a musician writer and father whose life is built around one powerful idea and that is rebuilding with purpose After nearly losing his identity as a husband and father, Ezra Vancil walked through addiction collapse and sobriety and spent the last 13 years rebuilding a life based on usefulness rather than recognition. Ezra welcome to The Jonnie Jensen Show it's my absolute pleasure to have you here. Jonnie thank you so much for having me I'm glad to be on Great well you reached out to me off the back of a episode around loneliness

01:37 And Ultimately, as the message within this podcast and The High Value Man Show is about it's about taking responsibility so that we thrive so that we create the relationships that we desire. So that we really show up as the man and dad We want to be And when you reached out to me just Ezra Vancil. I'm from Texas, if you can't tell from the accent and a performing songwriter and currently playing in a band with my daughter.

02:38 And I have a new double album that I put out and a book that I wrote recently. So, an all around kind of creative guy like to do all things creative and I'm also a business owner and I work with my son. Okay brilliant! And um...I'd like to do this at the top of the show rather than wait till the end. Describe your music because you will describe it best. I tuned into it as listening And Tom Petty. I know him as well, yeah! Both of them. Tom Petty and Neil Young kind of thing. I really draw on the roots of the 60s and 70s music and just try to put out something authentic. My music is really like a...I tried to put my stories even you know rebuilding my family became an album and bringing my family into my music so it's very kind

03:48 I hope that it has a heart. I really try to put my myself into it Do you know what? I just got goosebumps when you said a heart to it, because it definitely has that. One of my favorite movies is The Big Lebowski and there's a lot of... What was he called? Credence Clearwater. Is that what the man was called? Yeah. Credence Clearwater Revival That's in the same ballpark as well isn't it? That's it yeah! Anything with an acoustic guitar and drums that's kind of my thing. Fiddles and banjos I don't go too far country, but I'm from Texas and that can't really help it. It just seeps into your blood here somehow. Yeah it's got to have a twang to it. What was that line from the Blues Brothers? I like both types of music! Country and western! Exactly! Great movie

04:38 Absolutely. Well, listen, tell it like let's get into the story right? You reached out to me really and said my story can you know is a comeback King story it would really resonate there are some topics in there I love the creative angle sobriety alcoholism that and I know that they're at a day-to-day challenge for a lot of guys but before we get into all that let me ask you what does being a dad and family mean to you and who was your biggest influence in that regard Wow. I mean, being a family now means so much to me. I joke with my kids that when I was younger, I was like kids it's a hard world why would I bring anybody into this world? That's the kind of guy I was when I was young and course I had a few kids and now I look back and I'm like I wish I had so many more kids because it's riches. It's riches.

05:35 I'm And so it is nature, it's building legacy. You know we're just one person with a life here but we can do so much with what we bring to a family and the generations after us. So I see family as a very big thing. It's not just my little family, it's what do I bring to the world? What have I given them to give on

06:11 And so I think legacy is the word that comes with it. Yeah, do you know what? One of the early stages of my work with men in my program asks men what are your values and so many people don't think about that like we know well I'm a good guy or you can trust me kind of thing but no no what are your values like for Fun, generosity, communication. Love or family though that's in there as a value as well and when you're present to that everything that you do and how you shape your approach the world can fit And

07:08 So I love that, that's a value of yours and absolutely. That extension beyond okay there's blood family but of course this family is like my best friends there's people that I would count on you know for we now go to war for or you know what i mean who do think your biggest influence was in regards to that? Was that from your own childhood or someone else? That's it! That's a question I've never been asked It's a hard one to think of You I'm going to read a little bit of what I've pulled from my own upbringing, the good things that I've pulled from that. And I know it's because of the TV show Ruined It, The Books. But there's this kind of like you talk about there's this beauty, there's fun, there's joy about being in this family and doing something together because they're not just sitting around watching TV, they're making a life together. Yeah. So I would say that... You know, I'm a little embarrassed to admit that but when I think of family that pops in my head

08:16 Ezra, don't worry about that my friend. I'm totally on board not Little House on the Prairie but The Waltons right? Similar sort of time similar sort of thing. My mum died when i was nine and you know in the UK we used to have Sunday morning TV and it would be some cartoons then there'd be some other shows and then The Waltons came on sort of later on in the morning Family unit, I felt I missed out on a little bit. So TV certain TV shows particularly back in the day where you didn't, you couldn't choose between 1 million and one things. You had to have a few things that you liked and my family in America is very big and they're mainly Irish English like there's the two sides of our family in Chicago are Irish English. And so it's big families, you know like Catholics they love to have a few kids right?

09:04 But there's just such a tight unit there where everybody is always coming in and out of each others, you know back doors and cups of tea and sitting around and gossiping and chatting and laughing. And some of those wholesome old 80s TV shows really had that in the way that perhaps some TV shows today don't. Yeah, that's very true I think something I noticed just over my 90s, you know 80s-90s life was Men in TV and movies, for the most part are just baffoons. You know the father always plays a baffoon and it's the wife that has to put everything together so we did have those role models not just TV but a lot of different things in our life where these role models of men kind of showing up in life and then something happened in 80s where fathers became these baffoons

10:00 I'm trying to think like King of Queens and, I love this show personally. But at the same time he's a big kid. He's not what I grew up thinking of you know? And I don't even know if he was a father in that show but anyways... The point is Homer Simpson is the classic one. Yeah Homer Simpson yeah absolutely So let's talk a bit about your creative journey and then just get into the rock and roll story, right? Because I'm sure you didn't start out alcoholic. Right? There must've been a slide into that so tell us like this go on the journey with you. Let's talk about what this career has been, what does it mean to you? And then obviously we'll get into some of the sort of tougher times but where did it all start?

10:45 Well, it started with my parents were traveling music. I say traveling we moved a lot and they were gospel singers and they would go and play music. We moved...I mean, we're like military family. We just move from town to town over and over. And so I grew up in music. I grew up in the studio. I grew up with music playing all around me and jams in the living room. So as a teenager, I just took to it really quick And what happened was, it's kind of like a movie or something. We went into this studio with this teenage band that was this small town band and to make an album the engineer in the studio called someone from LA and they flew out there and within a few months we were signed to a development deal

11:35 And so that's how I kind of just picked up as I was already, I loved music. Age? What age were you there? You know, I'm always getting off...I think it was, I was 19. I've always started at 18 but last time I did an interview my band called me and said no, you are 20! I went and did the time and I was like, No, those are my teens. That was 19 years old. Wow. And so there you are, you're still 19. You had this mad situation where you suddenly signed and You know, where as a 19 year old with I guess that was a musical ambition but you had no idea it was actually going to start to come true. What did that feel like? It was overwhelming. It was like winning the lottery for me and my whole family. Like this management group in the label would fly my family out to LA and they'd come down and send limos. And so we were...you know, I was a family grew up under the poverty line

12:33 My whole life until the very end. And so this was, it was like a blank check was just laid before me and at first it was exhilarating but when we started... We got our own house, our own studio that the band lived in When it all came in I actually got very depressed and got under the pressure of what I had to create. We had to create this new album And there was a lot of drama with the band. So I'm sad to say it was exciting at first, but very quickly was not real happy with the situation. Wow! How old are you now by the way? I'm 52. Okay, I'm 51 right. Cutler 50's boy! Can you believe we're that old?! Can you believe it man!? We're just kids man. Yeah totally. But looking back on that time

13:28 As the 52 year old man looking at the 19 year old man, what could you see about that guy? How much of a how much of a man was he? How much did he know himself at that time. Oh I mean i look back and I don't regret the past because it is what it is but I do look back and see this kid me I'm going to start with a question that's been asked by many of our listeners. And it is, how do you deal with the fear of failure? How does one deal with the fear of failure when they're young and successful?

14:14 And so when I look at that kid, I just see someone just completely crippled by fear and not sure what to do. You know, I felt-I was with these slick kind of swarmy LA people although if they're listening, I love them but they are slick and swarm for sure! LA people are slick and swarmy and i didn't know how to combat them you know they would want to change things that I didn't want to change it. I'm just this kid talking And if you're listening to this podcast, I want to encourage you

15:01 Crazy stuff for me, you know. You've got to ring a prospect. Hi! You filled in the form on my website? What can I do for you or what were you hoping to get? Actually it should be such a natural conversation and still like trying to get it right and you're concerned about getting it wrong so much gets in the way that was your word there. Getting in the way of your own self That, at that time that was exciting. And where were you? You were single I'm guessing you were like living in the band house was getting into sort of indulgent times? Oh yeah it's very indulgent. I was with the girlfriend that I met in the band she was a photographer and so I had a steady girlfriend and as we went into this I mean

15:53 Yeah, it was pure indulgence. I mean it was a party that never ended. We'd go... So you're 19 what year are we in? So this would have to be, I would think 93 Okay. So it's 1993, you're 19 and you're living in LA. You and a bunch of guys... Yeah we were still in Texas I would go to LA sometimes yeah Oh okay right so got it. Because 93 for us in the UK was raving times you know like 20 000 people in a tent in a field bam bam bam lasers and ecstasy

16:31 Yeah, I went to a few of those. It was the 90s. Basically it was just... The 90's to me were pure indulgence. Partying in mosh pits hurting yourself was fun! That's the era that was going on and the band was doing well in the beginning we would tour I would just come home and there'd just be new people in our studio, our house. And they would stay there for a while and then they ship out and it was just endless parties you know?

17:09 We actually didn't get to making that second album in that band because I think we were just so busy partying. Yeah, the classic story yeah. So when did you start to... When did you fall in love? Did you get married like getting into sort of the dad and relationship side of things? That skips way forward because I married that girl she's a beautiful girl still think she's a beautiful girl She was my first wife When the band, the band fell apart. I did go to LA because the label signed me as a solo artist and I married that girl at that time and our marriage fell apart when I was 30

17:53 A lot of it, I had picked up a lot of habits during the band years. I tried to put them away and try to become like this super religious guy in my 20s and put away alcohol and drugs. It was over! I was going to be a good guy and get a job. And we had a son at that time And it just collapsed by the time I was 30 when I got into another band and that band kind of blew up. And I was back out, there's you know a fair, there was stuff going on. It was something that I carry on myself that I just kind of exploded my first marriage and came directly out of that

18:35 And married a bartender, because it worked out really well for a guy that liked to drink every day. Who is my wife? She's my wife now and so it kind of starts there... That kinda goes into just the downfall years And I don't know how much you want to go into that, but I had a basically decade of just going down to the very bottom. Wow okay well let's step back a little bit into like when you had a son or sorry, I didn't know it was a son. You got married and you decided we were gonna have kids? Or did the kids come along accidentally?

19:14 Because it's always fun, like my proposal story is bonkers. Relationship from previous had gone wrong and I was desperately upset then when I met someone new and fell in love i was like...I'm just going all-in! And it was a roller coaster and I proposed six weeks after we first kissed and it was great and like you said that love it's still there you know how could you not love the woman who made children with her? Walking down the aisle I didn't marry someone who was a good fit for me or her, quite frankly. Yeah And what about you? How did it all pan out, was it exciting to start with. Yeah I mean...I would say the same thing as you. I think we were desperately incompatible. She has a husband now that is a great man. We're friends and I like him a lot and he's so much better for her! If I was going to pick someone, I'd pick him before me! Like really?! He's such a good guy

20:14 You know, it was beautiful in the beginning. I think I had gotten dropped from the label and had no prospects for my life. I'd dropped out of school to be a rock star and so a lot of it was just like oh gosh! I'm 21 years old. I got to start my life and I have no idea. And so a lot of early marriage again just me kind of in chaos and fear We did have beautiful times. I think my son came when I was 24 and it wasn't really an accident, we decided to have a child and uh...we had him and he-my gosh! He just was the most special thing in my life. He still is well, I have a daughter now too they're both my kids are just but when he came along

21:05 You know, I kind of split myself in half because I was a guy that was dealing with all kinds of demons. And then I was going to be the good dad for my son and I tried with all of my being that he didn't see this other guy that was having all these problems And so I kind of tried to create a comfortable little world for him to live in, take care of him teach him make sure he went to good schools. At the same time, I'm over...I have like the Jekyll and Hyde thing going on. I'm over wrecking my life but it really was kind of a split thing where I feel like we just had these beautiful years even while

21:44 The marriage was falling apart. He came to live with me and, you know I just treasure the time that I had with him he was...he's a....I always tell him you know.. I remember when he was about 13 years like why do you like me? And i'm like You're the most interesting thing in the world Just the most interesting thing! I'm so interested in what my children think and he was like that as a child is just a beautiful mind Yeah, yeah. And what when you said about the Jekyll and Hyde? What was going on for you? What was the Jekyll part? Part of it was there's a double Jekyll because part of it was alcohol so in the band I picked up quite a drinking problem. I was trying to put that away and it would just kind of sneak back into my life another part is I wasn't gonna give up on music and so I was always trying to restart things

22:37 And so I would be working a full-time job in Dallas. I don't know if you know, Dallas and Austin and drive after work to Austin play gig and then drive all night have no sleep and go back to work So it's like never ending work and that was all fueled but the only way I could do that was alcohol and just to complete You know let myself come down when I needed to and so there's this chaos of ambition fueled by a bunch of alcohol And were you a happy drunk or violent drunk or miserable drunk? Like, how did it manifest for you?

23:16 I would say alcohol was like a good thing in my young life. It actually did all the things that we hope that it does, which is kind of loosen me up allow me to be intimate in the sack better, to be more loving and open with people. That's how it started. It didn't go...it went wrong in my 30s. It turned on me and I became just a man in despair trying to drink himself to death but yeah early days alcohol was a great thing It's just that when I overindulged, which was very often it had a lot of consequences that were coming down. And so you're trying to... You've got a young kid you're trying to work and the music is on hold at this time. The relationship is going okay or struggling? Relationship was going downhill after my son was born

24:10 The, it was just kind of on and off again. Probably a year or two after he was born is on and off again with my wife until we finally divorced where we would split up be back together. And I think you know alcohol is really fueling And I was in a band that was doing really well. We got an international deal and so music was coming back too, and uh, I think that kind of tore it apart because I was also gone all the time. My wife didn't come with me. So it's kind of an absence. Then again just my demons coming back to get me. Yeah.

24:52 And what's your message to men, you know, you've taken that experience. What would you say to guys who whose relationship is struggling or basically for men going through what you just described? What was your experience and what would you encourage them about the relationships in that situation? Well I have the A good thing that happened to me is because I've gone through two divorces. The woman I'm married to now, we also went through this it's just that we made it through it and so I've got the look at it from two different sides from that first time where when divorce started being mentioned and you know we start throwing that each other That's the first thing Is your committed or your not? You don't throw this word...I think in my marriage now

25:44 There's this not an option. Now, it might be an option that I'm going to go stay at a hotel or something but when i was young just as this kind of fear that both in the couple have this fear anyways that you're gonna leave me or this isn't gonna work and so just not allowing that to be part of the conversation and that's agreement even in your fights that we don't go there We don't talk about that's it because I believe my first wife I don't think it could have worked because of my alcohol problem.

26:31 And I think that we didn't have to go through that. We could go, this isn't working and let's back away from this in a way that doesn't destroy each other's life you know? My ex-wife, we know this now. You know, we were just in the state of frenzy, resentment. So looking at that compared today which I can talk about later... If I compared the two, you know because I went through a divorce with my second wife again that we recovered from. I just see a lot of things that could have been done a lot differently and I don't know that i could go back and change that but I do know this is there's this idea when we're married that were so tangled up together that we can't see that this is another person—an autonomous person that deserves respect

27:30 And that's something that I've come in later life to see is that it doesn't matter what I think my wife has done to me or whatever, or if she's mad or yelling or whatever. She's still an autonomous person and I have to respect her like I would any other... Like I would want for myself. And I didn't know that then. I didn't do that. So I think that's a huge deal is just kind of putting some separation even if they're going after you And if you're watching this, I want to say thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for being here and we'll see each other again soon on the podcast.

28:24 And And if you're not a fan of the word, I'm sorry.

29:10 I made so many mistakes in previous relationships, for sure. I mean that is just the best advice you know and like once again it's not something till i learn to later but I always like to now because we get into fights not very often but with other people coming at me or something I always like to ask my question what's right about what they're saying? And All the other things, maybe some arrows are being thrown. But there's something at the core of what they're saying so it's kind of like what you're saying is a little more curious about what part of this is right? What part of this can I take and own? And I find that it can diffuse a problem if I really do see oh that really is true and I take in I own it us and I just only have that little part that's true and go that is true You know I was dishonest or whatever

30:06 And then it kind of brings it down to two humans talking, you know. Yeah. You're really taking on that responsibility. I'm someone who can be a bit late and there's a sense for people who do that right? That oh well, I was only five minutes late like how dare you be annoyed that I was five minutes late? Well hang on a minute! How about you take responsibility for being five minutes late and start turning up five minutes early like if that's Yeah. And it is kind of like you said, values earlier

31:00 It's that whoever that is has a different value of time than you do. And I don't think it's wrong, like I'm a time nut if somebody says they're going to be there and expect them to be five minutes early... I was on time then! You were? My wife is not like that at all. Five minutes to her could be 20 minutes or 30 minutes as long as she gets there But what we've realized over time is we really have a different value. I don't think hers is bad, actually love that part of her she's kind of like free floating in life. I wish I could be like that so I can value that and she can value that I'm still somebody that is a stickler about time give me a minute to get over it and then realize oh yeah that's just how my wife is she's here it's okay yeah I'm gonna let her off the hook you know

31:48 Yeah, that Let Off The Hurt was beautiful. Like a mutual commitment to see the best in each other and mutual commitment to have each other thrive and mutual commitment to have each other feel supported and safe like these are some of the kind of foundational baselines that I don't you know, you go and get married new say these vows. I mean vows are like hundreds years old they don't really mean anything we need some modern vowels along those lines basically yeah i think you take them up like he said it's It's not something we said at some point. It's something that we take with us in our marriage. I had a...

32:25 I have a few friends, my brother is a big tycoon business entrepreneur kind of guy. He started companies and sells them and i've known a few guys like that and I love asking him what was your first year like in that business? And they always laugh and go man I was sleeping on the floor you know the lights were turning off because I didn't have enough And then turn that back to marriage and go, what makes me think now they have this thriving business that they've put their self into and knew that it was going to be tough. And that they were going to work on it still? Why do we think that we just marry somebody we love and then it's just all gonna turn out okay is... We don't have all that planning and value and realize that just like the businessman, they know they got to show up every day or the business is gonna fall apart. They gotta take inventory

33:16 It's the same thing in marriage. If I want a good marriage, I've got to be all-in to work for it And, you know and I see that's something as a commitment with me and my wife both is we're both 100%. You know? Yeah. I'm working on the marriage at 100%, she's working on it at 100% and that way the gaps get filled if one of us isn't doing great one day, you know? Yeah yeah there's a good book called The 80-80 Marriage and similar along those lines it's not 50-50 like... Yeah! ...I've done my share now you got to do your share no no no we're both all in and that's so a great way also helping avoid arguments So back to the story, right? The booze is starting to become a problem. The relationship is on the rocks. What did the crash look like? What happened? What took you down? I had an affair at the end of the marriage. I was kind of flirting with affairs for awhile but I had an actual long-term affair towards the very end of the marriage

34:11 And it was a decided, you know like this podcast where we're talking about changing your life on purpose. I destroyed my life on purpose. I knew this affair would destroy my marriage because that's too weak to say how one out and so I just sabotaged it through a grenade on it. That was the end of the marriage and then it just started unraveling at that point And so that's how it finally came apart. Took, you know as divorces do it took some years. It could took some maybe we shouldn't and get back together and a couple of years of painful back-and-forth and then the lawyers came in and you know what happens after that? Yeah yeah. What about... there are two topics there actually I'm gonna ask you about the sort separation and family court and contact with your kid but before

35:04 I see when the men that I work with are going through a divorce or they're rebuilding after And if you're listening to this podcast, I want to give a shout out to my friends at The Jonnie Jensen Show, Jonnie Jensen, Ezra Vancil, High Value Man Score, highvaluemanproject.com

36:02 It's kind of a messed up way to think. And since she wasn't going to do it, I'll go and do it and then she can divorce me." This is how my mind was working back then. Okay. It was a very conscious decision. A girl did come on to me but that wasn't abnormal. You must have had groupies all the time right? There were opportunities all the time at bars and clubs but I just made a constant decision just like you said The marriage was falling apart before this. I wanted out and I didn't know how to get out, and it's very religious so it is the strangest thing to go in having an affair to get out of a marriage but

36:42 I was also drinking, so you have to excuse that. There was some logic somewhere! Yeah yeah it got lost somewhere in a bottle yeah okay good and then when it came to the breakup um you know family law family courts you know father's rights around the world are a complex topic and interestingly couple of states in America they've now made 50-50 as Kentucky and Kansas, and the divorce rates have plummeted. The number of cases going through family courts has plummeted it's... they're looking at the impact on male suicide all these like hot topics around families and men's mental health what was the experience of contact in the arrangement with your child as you went through the divorce?

37:38 So once again, I have two... because I went through this again with my second wife. Oh okay right? And it was a totally different experience. My first experience is me and my ex-wife our divorce it was emotionally hard it was back and forth that way but we amicably that's a hard word for me to say I And so that's how ours, but what happened is she decided she it's not that she didn't have visitation. She did. She had weekend visitation, but she decided she wanted him full time after I had another child with my second wife and then the battle began and the lawyers came in and we spent so much money. I can't believe with me trying to keep my son because I had raised him up to that point

38:40 Probably seven, no this is probably started when he was seven and got done when he was preteens. The battle for this. Wow! And we spent you know... We didn't even have money really what happened is I borrowed money had a lawyer cousin that helped me. Cousin like cousin Vinny? Yeah yeah he's like he was my cousin Vinny. He'd go after your throat. I'd be like that's a little mean man. But we battled it and something very kind of healing came out of the end of it because, so this was happening again while I was you know, I was bad in my 30's. This is in my mid-30's and I was just devastating my life. I was going to jail. I was in mental hospitals. I was trying to kill myself and still trying to keep my son. And I remember when finally went to arbitration and our lawyers were ready. We had like all this stuff where we're gonna go in there

39:38 And And he went to live with her at that time. But boy, we just about... I mean there was no college fund. We spent everything to fight for something that eventually just decided I can't even take care of him. What am I doing? You know let her have him and that's his mother. He's been with me you know for half his life. He needs to go be with her and so i kind of had like this lucid moment when we were sitting in there after all this battle yeah

40:27 And would you, are you kind of at rock bottom at that point or is there still some depths to go? I was... it depends who you are. Like i was at most people's rock bottom. I had a lot further to go though so I was probably like halfway through my descent into hell yeah wow wow yeah and you mentioned mental health before as well like When was the first time you really became aware that your mental health was being affected? Because speaking for myself, I wasn't that aware. Inside one of my main talks I give there's a line that says the day you search Google for am I burnt out? The answer is yes!

41:12 And I'm like, am I burnt out? Yes. You're absolutely destroyed. Like go and get some help. But I was oblivious to the fact that we just got to keep going. I can just get us through this if we can just keep the business going, if we could just keep the family going and it'll all be okay. I was completely unaware of how broken I was. The story is I was 10 1⁄2 stone, 73 kilograms when we broke up You know, there was I was utterly burnt out and sadly my brother had thrown himself in front of a train you know couple of months before. So it's being aware of it is a completely different thing to it happening what that like for you? Yeah! You know I mean I really relate to that because I was just like pulling this mountain trying to keep this idea of life that I had to keep

42:05 And she's working like a maniac to just keep this idea that really was long gone of Little House on the Prairie. Right, there you go back to it again. Mental health... So I'm going to step back into my teenage years because there is something kind of that really ties into this because when I was 14 My dad, who was an amazing creative guy. He led big congregations of music and was a really powerful guy. He ended up going through something and ended up getting put in a state mental hospital. And I remember when I was 14, I went to visit him there at this place which is a horrible place. And I walked away with this incredible fear that what if something's wrong with me?

43:03 And I don't blame my dad at all. Like many people, he just had a crisis in his life and he never went back but he had to have some help at that point. But what it what I took away from it is there's something wrong with me and uh...I talked to young guys about this a lot that are real into like sad music and you know horror films and depressing Lars Van Teer movies. I don't know if you know who he is? Horrible! I definitely don't and i definitely don't want to. Okay, okay! I actually kind of trained myself as the lone wolf sad dude and I wrote sad songs kinda romancing suicide this was my young life and I just romanced this sad thing to the point that I manifested it in my life and so I was completely oblivious to this being anything but who

44:04 I'm Ezra Vancil. And so I did not get a view of that till I was, till I got sober at 40 and I finally saw that. I had created this really dark world that I lived in but I did not see it. I just thought this is just naturally my life. I'm going to die before I'm 40. Do you know what? I don't love that you suffered but I love that moment of realization because so many men will say to me like well this is just the way it is. I've just got to, this is what I've gotta be like. This is what it's like and I'm like well no you can create a new version of you as one of the most powerful incredible things about human beings is that we can literally invent and reinvent ourselves whenever we want. And whether that's if we take it basic someone who likes dance music or punk music like you could change! A leopard can't change its spots so

45:02 Or Americana, or Americana music. You can literally become a different human being by choice. Personal development that mental health journey and awareness is so freeing was there a catalyst for it? If you know start to get into sort of the recovery now what was the catalyst for that for you? It seems like such as smallest thing when I say it But so I was in and out of mental hospitals, jail. Therapists and psychiatrists never ended it's just like a rotating door. I finally landed in front of this therapist who is just the only one I could afford but she said something to me after I told her what's going on in my life and everything and she goes oh you can be happy? And it shocked me like literally thought what

45:56 And I walked away from that, and was like—and I realized I've never heard that in my entire life. And I grew up in a nice Christian family and everything but I've never heard that you could be happy. Well…and I'm not saying this was like—it was a catalyst what it did is put like a worm in my head going when I would go into my dark disgusting life, you know? It would go, You don't have to live like this anymore! You can be happy." And where did that come from And it just kind of started opening up this idea, can I? Like is happiness...is a happy life even possible for anyone? Especially me. A guy that's destroyed it and so that was the catalyst I think that started me thinking maybe I can change

46:40 And it's amazing to look at that, a mid-30s guy that doesn't believe he can change. How did I even think that? You know, it's this life that's kind of set before – I forget the word for it – predestined life that's just there and you've just got to go live it. It's not like that. No so it's ours to create but I do have an expression as well which is The Man You're Meant To Be Tomorrow had to get through today And these experiences that we're in are here to shape us. And my faith is a curious mix of a lot of things, I have a strong faith, not a great view on church so much but I've had the experience of God or the higher being in my world and one of those moments was

47:32 Don't expect me to answer your prayers how you want or when you want. I'll answer them, but for...I'll answer them for your own good and here you are at this point in your life creating Yeah. I mean, it's a strange thing to say because I really do say I don't regret my past. I regret anybody that was hurt by my past

48:16 And I try to fix that, you know the best that I can. But I don't regret my past. My past is like something now that I have that I can help other people with it are there so is...I don't think I would choose to do it again because I don't know if I'd make it but because I was there I can sit down and I have with many guys they deal with the same things as I was and they see something in my eyes and they know I'm not bullshitting ya You know, when I tell one of my stories they know that I've been there and that at least I'm somebody that can kind of be there with them. And so I am very grateful and like you said today I'm grateful when hard things happen now because I know it's building me now its making me stronger

49:04 You know, and it's turning me into the man I need to be. So I don't know how to look at it in a whole world picture and everything. Also have a faith that somehow this mysterious thing all works but I'm so glad that I went through that, that me and my wife did because I really feel like it's something... It gave me a purpose in life that was real more than music more than anything is that I have this pain that I've shared And

49:50 Oh yeah, well this happened to me. So my wife died and I'm now broken and depressed and whatever... And someone else says oh i was in a rock band and became an alcoholic and and I'm broken and depressed! Suddenly from a place of thinking I'm the only one who's going through this you hear another guy across the fire who's going through exactly the same thing but for a completely different reason. Then you suddenly go ah Oh my gosh, it's not about the circumstances. It's about what we do now and so what we do to get out of it. Yeah I think even more powerful is when you see somebody... When you can relate to something somebody has gone through but you don't have to tell them but they can see that your life is different now You know? And they can see What it gives to me Is that because I look- When I'm challenged with something I look for somebody that's overcome it

50:43 And when I see that they're not much different than me, they've got brains and guts just like me. When I see that they can do it, I go oh well i can too you know? It's both of those things—it's the empathy of being there with them in that moment but it's also showing that they don't have to...that they can make it through it. That it's going to be okay And that is such an important message for men. That was an important message for men and women, but here we are talking to men right? Male suicide is the level it's at which is no good for all of us. I think that part of what brings that about is this sense

51:24 It's too hard. No one else understands and you know what, I'm just going to flick the switch and be done with it all failing to see not so much that oh we're gonna leave all these other people behind because when you do it, you're not really bothered about the other people that can be left behind but it's that sense of maybe this next chapter is gonna be even better And I think that's what, that's what i'm taking from your message and why it's so powerful is that this new chapter is even better. So share with us some of the richness of this new chapter and you know how its serving you so well? Yeah! So at 40 I had an incredible change. I quit...I put the bottle down in drugs completely out of my life and uh and I began a journey

52:13 You said something earlier, and this is going through my head. There's a saying that God will work with you but he won't work for you. And so when I got sober...I was basically an atheist at that time but I got sober because I got down on my knees and said whatever you are, help me! So when I woke up the next day and change started happening in I went back to that idea of a higher power, to that God and considered him my friend. And so that's the first thing that changed is I had a faith that wasn't based really on religion which it had before which...I don't have a big problem with religion—I did at that time but it wasn't like that. It was a true faith that had some kind of action behind it and so if I prayed for something

53:09 That meant I was going to get up and go show up for the thing. If I was worried about, you know... Like back then I would get all these red letters that were telling me my house was in foreclosure or something. I used to just hide those but if I prayed about it, I got to pick that letter up open it up call them up because I've just given that to the creator of the universe and we'll just see what happens good or bad It's no longer in my... The outcomes are no longer I'm just becoming the man and taking care of this stuff that I think my God wants me to be. That's it, and I think that's the biggest change in my life is that this very simple faith—it was a very simple faith in the beginning—of just going... You know, I give up these ideas about outcomes that I can't figure out how to get them anyways

54:00 And just go, you know. You take it whatever great power what the creator whatever you know anybody out there wants to call I call God if you want to take this just take my life wherever you want and what i'm going to do is just show up and if something needs to be doing done i'll be doing it and my My life has become about just taking care of what god has given me And that's plenty. Every day I've got something that I've been given, whether it's an opportunity where is my daughter walking in with a problem or my wife for a piece of music I need to... and that's it! And I've given up the outcomes of my life. And I don't worry about those so much. If I do, I know I'm in the wrong headspace because I should just be becoming you know? I'm just becoming what I am capable of becoming this day

54:52 And so I think that's the huge thing that changed everything was just, it is a faith but it is something of a faith of working with God. Of saying, I give this to you but I'm going to do what I can do You know, and going off with what he's given me. He's given me all this faculties and brains and creativity in using that. Somebody said early on somebody said answer your own prayer you know I pray to God but then I go out and try to answer it with what he has given me And not with an idea of an outcome either. Just, just it's life comes to us one day at a time. Just whatever is in front of me, just try to answer it with what I have right then. Yeah. I mean, it's like music, right? You're the musician, not me but...

55:41 You could pray to be talented, but unless you pick up the guitar and actually work on it. You got no idea whether you've been blessed or not like that's this conversation of having a, doing this with a musician like that's same as a sport. You don't pick the racket up and hit the ball. And then there is no idea whether you're any good at it. Pray for your wife, pray to fall in love. If you don't go out and talk to some people You ain't gonna meet someone. And by the way, if you're into sport and you keep going talking to people who are doing something completely opposite probably not gonna happen! So don't prove the universe wrong go out there and prove it right I love that lean into the prayer be the answer to the prayer your asking for. The space that you're in now creatively and what your producing

56:34 Is this like the highest kind of evolution of your work? Do you feel like it's exactly where you're supposed to be? Yeah, I mean it's just... This is another thing that has come to me in this new life. It's just this gratitude and fostering gratitude in my life making sure I'm grateful for what I have In my creative life right now, sitting in my studio right now, This is another reason why I gave it to God because things that come to me I'm in a band with my daughter who, very well could have just ruined that relationship. But instead we're healed and we're in a band together and the work that I do in music now is not about being famous and putting my leather pants out on and strutting and whatever it's about. I want to give this world something of myself like we're talking here.

57:30 You know, to me that's very beautiful when I'm no longer thinking of the outcome of the music and just going what do I want to put into this world? My one little life. What do I have and lo and behold I have a lot of beautiful things. I've got children to write about. I've got hardships to write about you know And I've got marriage and love and it feels like what creativity was always supposed to be which is we have this I'm going to kind of go on here because we have this idea of music that only started like back in the last hundred years, that were supposed to become rock stars and everybody's supposed to know us. That's not the case all through history. Musicians traveled around they were just normal people they played for their families and their community at the bar

58:20 My music is now for the people around me and in my life, and for me. And it's just... It's my thing! I get to carry it, I get to love it, I get to do it. That's enough. Yeah. And have the faith that it's enough. Have the faith that it's going to deliver what you need. Beautiful. Yeah. Other people have to judge my music according to what they think but I've had a few signals. And I'm going to tell you that this is not a dead-end road. You know, if you're writing songs and they're really terrible and you go but i'm gonna persist for 20 years maybe you should have put it down so there's signals back where music has people have been given one of my songs or videos and i've seen like major crazy changes like i saw a marriage that they were sitting down the right their divorce papers

59:23 And they were accidentally at one of my shows that was at a park and they're sitting at a table. They wrote me years later and said, we were sitting there and we ended up just watching your show. When we walked away, we tore up the divorce papers so we went back and we're together now. Stuff like that to signal back going okay Put your heart out there, be true. And every once in a while it might help somebody. Epic! A beautiful way to actually wrap this up. As what we said people I'm sure will put your link to Spotify and the book into the show notes and there's their website address as well but where do you want to send people too specifically if they're interested in listening or finding out more about you?

1:00:11 The best place would be my website, which is just my name ezravancil.com and you can also search for me in any of the streaming apps and you'll find my music there and also on Instagram I'm at Ezra Vancil. Okay perfect well we'll link all those up i could talk to you for hours and certainly we have repeat guests back on so When the time's right, I look forward to catching up and hearing more about the success of the music and what's going on. I guess for both of us somewhere down the line we're gonna become grandparents at some point! Hopefully not soon that's what i'm saying to that one... Not my daughter she's too young yeah good stuff okay well listen um i'll see you on the other side as the outro but Ezra Vancil thanks so much for being here. I really enjoyed it Jonnie thank you very much

1:01:06 Thanks for tuning in to The Jonnie Jensen Show. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with fellow dads! Creating the life you deserve starts with YOU. Get your High Value Man blueprint and join our community of motivated modern dads at highvaluemanproject.com Let's go