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00:00 Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus, Abba Father, what a privilege it is to be here today recording, having conversations about things that matter in our world today. I ask for wisdom, for guidance for both Adam and myself. And I pray for our listeners. I'm so thankful for them. They've been reaching out and asking questions and sharing things and even pushing back at times. And I'm thankful for all of it, Lord. We learn through it all. So bless whoever listens to this podcast. Maybe somebody stumbles on it. Lord, may they be refreshed and encouraged and inspired. And may they someday be able to say, wow, we get to do this. In Jesus' name, amen.

00:42 Amen. It's Wednesday, March 18, 2026. We get to do this. This is episode number 25. This is the life we've been blessed with. This is against me. We get to do this. This is a chance we dare not miss. This is the life we get to do this. Yes, we do. We get to do this. Cheers, brother. Cheers. We got the Black Rifle Coffee Crow. You've got the Beyond Black. I'm doing the Just Black. Oh, I did that. I did know there was a damned. Oh, okay. Oh, there's so many different flavors. It's crazy. I'm in need of this.

01:24 It's been an incredible week, a good week, a really good week so far. It's only Wednesday. It's a good week. That's what I'm talking about, brother. It was a good week. I've had good technical things, just good stuff happening. Had a nice afternoon with my wife, and we had a nice dinner. And just, yeah, just fantastic. And things are looking every night almost. Me too. Yeah. Tina's always saying, you know, I cook every night. I'm like, okay. All right. Mr. Egg. I guess that walking in and out that I do is anyway. She does plan. I think it's the planning more. You know, it's like, okay, what should we have? This cut of beef or this cut of beef?

02:05 There it is. Yeah, we just placed our order for hometown meats. Yeah, man. These guys are so good. Love it. Love it. I had my last ribeye last night, so I'm like, we got to get this order done. So yeah, we got that in. Yeah, we did a tri-tip last night with espresso rub from Gigawatt Coffee Roasters by man in Chicago, in Illinois. Wow. So good. Remind me again who did the pickles for us. Jody White. Well, she sent them to us. Thank you, Jody. She wants to make them. She wants them to rebrand as the Pickle Princess because we've promoted it so much. But man, those things are good. Oh, my gosh. Did you finish it off? Almost. I'm rationing.

02:46 Yeah. So I'm down to the last two pickles, and I think I've got an onion and a halop. And I think that's the same thing. I really don't even want to eat it. I probably will drink the juice. I know. And Bo, right, makes them. Did I get that right? Yeah, Bo. Thanks, Bo. You're awesome. It's been a long time since I've actually rationed myself on anything, certainly pickles. They're too good. Today's episode has been months in the making. And it really started, gosh, I can't believe how many, what episode that was. We were talking about replacement theology.

03:28 Didn't we call it the Israel conundrum? No, even before that, we were doing it. Before that, I think we were doing it. We've hit on this several times. We have. And there's so much spinning around in the podcast padosphere, as we call it. And it's literally like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candace Owens, whom I'm missing. Just all kinds of things. It's exhausting. And they're all yelling at each other. And they're all like, you need to denounce him, denounce her, denounce this. And it all comes down to, well, this started years ago and certainly perked up after October 7th.

04:10 And all we've heard is labels like Christian Zionists and all these. And this to me was like, I need to figure out where all of this is coming from. And it's kind of been presented as a binary option. You're either... Clarify that. You're either a Christian Zionist or you're not. Yeah, there's no other option. There's no other option. Got it. And of course, now everything is spun up with what's happening in Iran. So I wanted to give a little bit of historical background on Iran, our involvement in there, because people really don't know any history.

04:53 And even I had to brush up a lot and like, okay, where actually does this all come from? And, you know, when you. when you understand the history of Iran and the British involvement and the U.S. involvement, it has always been about one thing and one thing only. Can you guess? Oil. I was going to say money, but that's translated into oil. Oil. It's always been one thing and one thing only. And so when we see the, it was a national security advisor, I think, quit his job this morning saying, saying two things. The president only focused on one, which is, you know, Iran posed no threat.

05:35 But he also said, you know, we've been led into this by, you know, Israel, basically. And so when I look at this claim that we have been dragged into something for Israel's behalf, it's laughable on its face. Just because of, look at what's happening. What is the result of this? The result is the constriction of flow of oil through the Straits of Hormuz, which have been a problem for decades and decades. But even in the last couple of years, I mean, it may have been cool to just watch the helicopter footage of the Houthis landing on the oil ship.

06:15 But this has been an ongoing problem. This has been an ongoing issue. And without the Straits of Hormuz open, Saudi Arabian oil can't come through. Qatari gas can't come through this. And of course, Iranian oil, which mainly has been sanctioned by all countries in the world and goes to China and to other places. So first, let's understand outside of the terrorism funding aspect, when did this really start? And it started in the early 1900s when Churchill decided to switch the British Navy. And the British Empire was a naval seafaring empire.

06:56 They conquered all these countries and turned them into the big commonwealth. The saying was, the sun never sets on the British Empire anywhere. And they changed their naval vessels from coal, which Britain had enough of, to oil. This was, you know, combustion engine had come in now. And so, oh, now we're going to use oil to power our ships. We don't have any oil. So they went looking for oil. And back in the day, certainly, if you go looking around the region, which was not Iraq or Iran or Syria or Jordan, it was Persia.

07:35 Of course, the Ottoman Empire, which was this whole area, and they were starting to break apart of their own accord because it's all just tribal. They went, you know, we should probably go take a look over there. And you could walk through certain places and your feet would step into oil. And that's how they found it. Literally, it was just so much of it. And so the Brits at the time had learned a very, very smart trick, which they'd pulled off in China, which was opium war. So they got all these people in today, modern-day Iran, and Iraq is also a part of this, got them hooked on opium. And so they got this great deal with the tribal rulers of the time in Iran.

08:18 We'll take all your oil and we'll give you 10% of that. Typically, it's like a 50-50 at least. No, we'll take all of that. Have another toot of opium. You'll be fine. And so that was the beginning. But all of these different tribal regions, it was a problem because you had to continuously keep that flow of oil safe. And there were some pipelines that they even put in early on, which is now modern day Syria. And they were piping that up. So they decided to start funding all these different little groups and tribes to fight each other and stay occupied, you know, the divide and rule so they could just continue to get the oil.

09:00 Now, around this, we got World War I coming up around this time, actually after World War I, which was also partially about oil because the Germans now, they were building ships. They wanted oil. There was lots of stuff going on even in the African region. And the Brits and the French, two guys, actually, Sykes and Pico, you may have heard of this, the Sykes-Pico agreement. They decided, let's carve up the Middle East, and you guys will be responsible for this part, and we'll be responsible for this part. And they just drew some lines in crayon and a napkin and said, oh, we'll call this Iraq.

09:38 We'll call this Iran. We'll call this Jordan. We'll call this Syria. The region of Palestine was really, a lot of it was Jordan at the time, mainly Jordan, some Syria. And of course, it moved all over the place, including Egypt. And that was really. really the beginning of the oil dominance of the British. So they had the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corporation, which is now, which then was later known as BP. And they had this great, great idea in 1917.

10:19 called the Balfour Declaration. And the Balfour Declaration was, again, it's, you know, so we're looking at the wartimes. We should probably create a place for the Jews. And why don't we make it in their kind of their homeland here in Israel? Because they, on one hand, will protect another important will be another force for another important part of the country of the world, which is the Suez Canal. I knew that would come into play later. And so now we have, now I'm speeding through the years, and I'm not a historian, but I have it pretty well in my head. Even if you watch the Crown, you'll see some of this. So you have the Suez Canal, and then there's some, there's always, like Egypt always has revolutions.

11:01 Like every three years, there's some revolt going on to this day almost. So Nasser comes in. He was a military leader. And he's like, you know what? We're taking control of the Suez Canal. So big problem for the Brits. It's arguable whether they funded the beginning of it or took a small group and started funding them, the Muslim Brotherhood. And this to this day has been used mainly by the British, but also by other people and their own autonomous, they've grown so big, to control parts of the region. So, you know, this idea of building a state for the Jews has always been historically a geopolitical initiative, not a biblical initiative.

11:45 And Napoleon even tried to do that. And, you know, he's like, he wanted the Jews out of France, which a lot of people still see him as a friendly towards the Jews, but he wanted to basically get him out, put him in the same place. Didn't work out for him. He lost in different places. And of course, Waterloo and that was all over. So the Brits had this Iranian oil, and we benefited from it as well, also to keep it stable. And then in 1953, you had Iran was essentially becoming a republic. They had

12:23 democratically elected leaders. They had a prime minister. And the Brits were like, this is no good because we need to keep these guys kind of disorganized and fighting each other so that we can continue with the oil. And so this was Prime Minister Mossadeh. And he said, you know, this thing that these Brits did, we got to end this. We're going to nationalize the oil, which would mean all of the rights to the oil go away. And now Britain has a problem because they have this. And there's only three oil companies at the time. You have British Petroleum, you have Royal Dutch Shell, and the Dutch bought Shell, and you had Standard Oil.

13:05 You had Caltech or whatever it was. So those are really the three big oil companies. And so we decided, and I say we, the CIA and the British Secret Service, MI6, in 1953, we implement Operation Ajax. And I love these names. And this is historical, historical fact. So we now crush this secular nationalist path for Iran. And we bring in Shah Muhammad Pahlavi, who his son is still considered to be the royal crown prince. It was really just some dude they put in there.

13:48 All right, so now you're going to have the power. So for two decades, everything's going well. But the religious leaders, and this includes Khomeini, they felt that this had always been a betrayal by the Americans and by the British, which quite honestly, it was. We came in there, did some regime change because we didn't like that they were democratizing. So the Shah at a certain point launches what was known as the White Revolution. And this was not accepted by any of the religious leaders in Iran. They kicked Khomeini out. He's in exile for 15 years. But this builds and builds and builds and builds.

14:29 And then by 1978, 1979, the Islamic Revolution is about ready to kick off. And so the first thing, well, not the first thing, but one of the things they do is they, you know, so they send the royal family goes on vacation. They wind up in France. They live there for forever, basically, never to come back. were exiled. It's a whole big mess. And then the students go in. It was a student uprising, go into the U.S. embassy, and they keep all these embassy workers. I think it was about 50 or 60 of them hostage for 444 days in total. You remember this? And why was this? They were getting all the documents that the CIA had shredded.

15:12 Embassies are always cover for CIA. It's the CIA station. So the CIA had shredded all of these documents that proved that we had done Operation Ajax with the Brits. And they took all these snippets, brought it over to the schools, and said to the kids, you like puzzles, right? Put this together. And they spent these hundreds of days putting it all together. So there was proof positive that we had actually done that. And then, so Jimmy Carter, he was trying to get the hostages out. The whole thing was still such a mess because Ronald Reagan didn't want those hostages to come out before the election because he thought that

15:53 Jimmy Carter would be seen as a hero for getting the hostages free. And no one really understood at the time what it was about. We only know that in hindsight. So our CIA actually actively worked with the Islamists saying, can you just hold back just a few more days until after November? Wow. And Carter was actually trying, up until January, whenever the handover was, he was still as president actively trying to get that done. And then, of course, Reagan gets into office, boom, it's all taken care of. So this is really how the mullahs and the Ayatollah came to power.

16:38 And this is where all of the problems started. Wow. Or the modern day problems. So it was a puppet government. That's literally what they called it. They called it the puppet government. So now you know why the so-called crown prince son is like, oh, I should come back. But even that was, that was the puppet. His dad was the CIA MI6 puppet. And so really, that's why I think President Trump is not interested in him because they know how to do a secular, democratically elected government. And they were a republic, just like the United States, a republic.

17:18 So this has always been about oil. And now you just add to it that they were taking all of that. And I would say, in a way, on behalf of the British system, I'm not, you know, it's not like King Charles is personally responsible, but the banking system, the shipping system, the insurance system, it all runs through the City of London banking system. And the estimate is that for every barrel of oil that comes through the Straits of Hormuz, $5 to $15 is just insurance premium, just extra money that only has to be paid to Wall Street banks, City of London Banks, City of London.

18:01 Insurance companies are just banks. So they love this. They love the problems in the Middle East. Keep it going. And it's lucrative. Of course, the problem is Israel, the Jews turned out to not be so subservient. And so they smart and they started fixing the country they had been given that, you know, and this is where the argument comes down to, or they deserve, or they, by covenant, should have. And this creates all of this tension. The United States is allied, of course, with Israel because that is our, as we call it,

18:38 the aircraft carrier in the sand. And this is where in the past we have also continued to poke and make sure stuff keeps the tension goes on in the region. I mean, and I could go into Kuwait and Iraq and Saddam Hussein, who we all loved until we didn't love him. We are not good actors in all of this historically. So let's just put that up front. Agreed. So at this point, we have Iran using their power to fund all kinds of destabilizing forces, not all necessarily just to get rid of Israel, but to destabilize Lebanon, destabilize Syria, destabilize Iraq, to some degree

19:21 destabilize Egypt. That has been the system that we just needed that to keep that sweet, sweet oil flowing at a premium that really kind of the British financial empire controlled. And why was that? When the Brits converted from this global empire of land to a global empire of finance. finance. And they were in the game way before Wall Street came along. So those two are kind of symbiotic. Okay. So that's the truth of what's happening. And right now, President Trump, he did what every president has, every president since Roosevelt has said, we need to take care of Iran.

20:04 These guys are a problem. And whether it was the Wall Street people who said no or whoever was saying no, no president ever did it. And now we see all the problems that have arisen from Iran being able to do whatever they do. Could they actually have nuclear weapons? I don't know. I've been hearing next week for 10 years. Maybe, maybe not. It was a pretext. But the idea was we've got to get it back to where it was. We want to play fair with them. We want to have real trade with them for their oil. And this plays into what President Trump set up in his first term, the Abraham Accords.

20:43 This is what even historians say this would be fantastic because if we could have Israel as a part of all of these different Arab nations and have Saudi Arabia and the Iranians, Sunnis and Shia, who historically hate each other, that's why I'm always laughing if someone says, well, ISIS was fighting because of Iran. No, ISIS is the other side of Iran. So no, that's wrong. And there seems to be motivation for that. And Saudi Arabia, you've been doing all this is what President Trump did this term. You've been getting all, you know, you've been doing oil business. We're going to turn you into a data center, high-tech center of the Middle East, and you'll participate in the global AI race, et cetera, et cetera, for whatever that means.

21:33 But that's not the way it's playing out in American politics. In American politics, all you hear is President Trump got dragged into this by Israel because he's needed to blow up Iran to protect Israel. Nonsense. It doesn't even make economic sense. So the cope of grasping at, well, it's because he's being blackmailed by Epstein. No. I mean, it's pathetic. It's pathetic on his face where this is a game about oil and resources and money and who controls and who does not control and what's fair. And isn't it always historically? It's always about.

22:14 We're done. That's right. Good night, everybody. No, it's always about oil, turf, and, you know, there's always some personal stuff in there, but that just is from leader to leader. So I've been trying to figure out where this notion comes from that we have gotten into a position where you have, there's really two camps, and I learned recently, mainly through listening to you very carefully, that there's three. One is Israel is not important because, according to the New Testament and Jesus, the church is the new Israel.

22:56 Then you have the other side who says we're really in the church age right now of the seven different ages, dispensationalism. And then there's a third that we'll get to. But what this results in is a confusion for believers, Christians. Yes. What am I supposed to do here? Am I supposed to defend, support Israel? Is Israel the state, the region, the government, et cetera? Or do I denounce them for so-called genocide? What is genocide? Or should I just shut up and be really quiet, which I think is what most people do?

23:36 And this is a big problem because you're missing a great opportunity to help people understand, in my opinion, and I believe your opinion, what God really intended and what he really said. Now, this has come to a head with podcasters who believe they are great theologians. I didn't know Tucker Carlson was a Christian until recently. And the same goes for many other people who have at least expressed their faith openly. But I knew this was a real problem in our community when I hear our friend Matt Long on the Matt Long show just this week, and it's a very short clip, just to give you an idea of the confusion of where we are as believers in this geopolitical argument about Israel.

24:31 And so, well, that puts us in a bizarre situation because is the state of Israel is the governor, the guy. government of Israel? Is that who God made his promise to? Did he make it to Jerusalem? Did he make it to the Jewish people who are descended by blood only to the Jewish people? These are all questions that a lot of us have, and many of us grew up with preconceived notions on that. Okay. So when Matt heard this, by the way, I played this on Hello Fred as a promo. Yeah, you're right. I heard it. I heard the promo too. I'm like, wow, I got to grab that out of the promo. That's a good bit. So

25:17 I'm going to try and boil it down and then we'll get to the third option. But amongst a lot of people who are saying, literally saying the Christians in America are Zionists. They're the problem. They let Israel get away with everything. The politicians are pro-Israel and they'll do anything to defend Israel. They come from the school of replacement theology. And we played some Nick Fuentes a while back. I think that's probably where we talked about it, where he said, oh, no, the church has replaced Israel, and that is replacement theory.

25:58 Now, I'm going to play a couple of clips and then we'll get into where this comes from. So Tucker had on former Miss California Carrie Pray Jean Baller. And you may remember her from like 20 years ago. She was a shoe-in to win and then go on to win Miss USA. But she said very clearly, no, I believe marriage is between one man and one woman. That's my faith. And so she got burned, you know, excoriated, of course. And that's when she became friends with President Trump. And he kept in touch with her throughout all these years because she definitely went through some ups and downs and whatever career because she was seen as a nutjob,

26:43 as one does. And she winds up being asked to be on the defending Christian faith presidential board. And this includes a number of people, including Dan Patrick, who was our attorney general? Attorney General? Attorney General? Texas. Senator, no. He's our lieutenant governor. Lieutenant. Right. Who is our attorney general? Pax. Pax. Okay. Yeah. So he's. It's easy to get those names mixed up. Yes. And they're going to get even more mixed up, I think, once elections are over. And Paula White, who runs the Office of Faith for the President, and I believe is his pastor.

27:22 I'm not sure. But also, you know, like Dr. Phil is on there. But it's a prestigious thing. And she was asked to resign from the board Miss California, runner-up, Miss California, because she was posting things about what Israel was doing in Gaza. And it was clear that it was more about politics than about faith. But as she sat down with Tucker Carlson, this is where it really got interesting for me because you can hear exactly how the programming has been shoved in and how it works, this very binary

28:07 choice, which is not ultimately binary, about the support of Israel. So she says, no, I'm not going to resign. Then she gets a call from Paula White and Dan Patrick, and they're saying, no, you really have to, or you have to run all your tweets through us. Or, you know, it sounds like a very untenable situation. Here's her, and I have a couple clips of this. Here's her takeaway as to how this happened in her conversation with Tucker Carlson. Did either one of them explain why a requirement of the Christian faith is supporting the Netanyahu government? Do they explain the theology there? You already see where this is going, right? Because I don't understand it. Yeah, no, they never explained it. They just said, you can't have your theology. You can't believe what you want.

28:51 You have to submit to ours. But their theology is that Christians are required as a matter of faith to support the government of Israel. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you have any questions? Those who bless Israel will be blessed. It's exactly what Ted told you. Yeah, I mean, he had no idea where in the Bible it was. Of course, that line is not actually in the Bible. It doesn't say that. But whatever, the leap between that, whatever that means, it does mean something. And the moral, the religious requirement to support the government of Israel. I mean, those are just like completely two different things. No, they don't think they are. A lot of interesting things, just to start this off. I completely.

29:34 completely take at face value the belief that she and Tucker think and have gotten the impression, and it may be very true, that politicians who believe in dispensationalism or whatever their belief is that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel was a prophetic fulfillment and we have to defend that at all costs to have the end times accelerate or whatever eschatological phase we're in. I need you to comment on just where we are so far.

30:17 So, well, dispensationalism would hold, you know, that there's a place for Israel. There is prophetic implications for both current Israel then when it was said back in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant, but also for today. So it's both now and for then, now and future. There's also another view, which is completely the opposite of that, which would be replacement theology. And by the way, no one person came up with replacement. You can't go back to this person started that. Well, the argument, and I've looked into this, is that for 1500, 1800, 2,000 years since Constantine.

30:59 Right. I did hear that. And Justin Martyr and others. That that's when Constantine, who of course made Christianity the official religion, he could not have people believing that Israel was still a thing in order to keep power. And I believe that's probably been carried over through the Church of England. Like, no, no, no, no. We are the new Israel. And that was for political reasons that you just couldn't believe that. Right. Does that sound feasible? So back to replacement theology. Yeah, it does sound. It says that Israel is over and done, that the church is now the new Israel.

31:44 It has replaced Israel. So all the prophetic implications were either fulfilled in the old covenant or in the first century of the New Testament, the new age, so to speak, that now everything pertains to the church. Everything's about the church. Now, problem is we're doing this again. We're siloing these things and saying it's either or. Again, you use the word binary. Hold on. There's another way. I know that's where I want to get at the end, but I want to. I'll let you have the punchline. No, no, you're going to have the punchline, but I want to take us through because you mentioned replacement and fulfillment. That's exactly what comes up in this next clip. Did Paula White or Dan Patrick explain where you were wrong on doctrine?

32:28 No. No, they just said, I cannot hold firm to replacement theology, which they don't know. Catholics, it's fulfillment theology. We believe that we are the fulfillment. You know, it's not replaced. They like to dig us and say, oh, you believe in replacement theology. No, no, no. We're the fulfillment. Christ is the fulfillment of Israel. Well, that's what's happening. So we are the new people of the Old Testament. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it says it like on every page. Okay. The theologian Tucker Carlson. Well, so now this kind of a little nuance here. So replacement versus theology, please. Well, she says we're not replacement theology.

33:09 We're fulfillment theology. I've never even heard that term. I love it. It's not an official term. That's great. But really what she's blending over into is what I would call a hybrid theology, which brings in covenant theology. And I would definitely lean more towards covenant theology. We're going to get to covenant. We're going to get to covenant. But she's pulling that in as a piece. But she's not. It's a nuance. But she's not. Yeah, I haven't heard the whole question. No, no, no. It's mind-blowing, my brother, Pastor Jimmy. It is mind-blowing because this programming, when I hear Tucker Carlson say, it's all over the Bible. I'm like, no. It's like, no, it's quite the opposite, and that we'll get to.

33:50 But now we get the explanation from her. And this is just a mom. You know, she was a beauty queen, but she's a mom and she's just trying to do the right thing. And I have to be honest, she sounds very bitter. She's got a bitter tone, and maybe for good reasons. Well, I think she's been screwed around her whole life. Yeah, she's very hurt. But this is the conversation. This is what is driving the entire narrative. And once we can get down to the basics of what it is and what it isn't, then at least we can feel good about defending whatever we want to defend. But they're accusing you of believing in something called replacement theology? theology. For people who don't follow this, and I'm kind of one of them, I don't fully understand what that means.

34:33 What do they mean by that? They believe that, um, so replacement theology, their claim is that the church has replaced Israel. So, for 2,000 years, that's what all of the early church fathers have taught: that we are the new Israel, we're the spiritual Semites. Um, they would literally be rolling in their graves if they thought that we were being told that 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy fulfillment. I mean, that alone is insane. That they think that this political state of Israel that was created in 1948, mostly by atheists, is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. And I mean, you're aware of Darby and Schofield and this is the fruit of that.

35:18 So, he said, and I have a feeling that there are politicians who absolutely believe that the 1948 Israel is fulfillment of prophecy. Yes. And it may well be, but I'm like, whatever, God's timing, God's deal. I don't know if we're supposed to defend the government. I mean, there have been a lot of bad governments in Israel, a lot of bad kings, a lot of you know, a lot of bad stuff has gone on there. But this is the schism. And I don't think all politicians believe this, but whether they're using it as a reason to go along to get along with the military-industrial complex and they're hiding behind it, whether they fully believe it, I'm not exactly sure.

36:05 But this is what leads to this label of Zionism. So when you hear Ted Cruz defending Genesis, saying, well, trying to defend, you know, if you bless Israel, you will be blessed in sending money or supporting militarily the Israeli army government, et cetera. This is where the term Christian Zionism comes from, which this good Catholic girl has never heard of. Is there any other place in America, I mean, in the world rather, where you have a big group of Christians who believe that 1948 Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy?

36:48 No. In fact, do you know, Tucker, that I asked my priest who I had several, I had about six priests guiding me before this hearing, spiritually advising me before this hearing, because I wanted to make sure. I need to make sure that I know what I'm saying and that it's actually accurate with what the church teaches. The church. And I'll never forget, he's from Spain. God bless him. He's so sweet. And I said, Father, do you know what Zionism is? He looked at me like I was an alien. He's like, what's Zionism? I couldn't believe it. I said, you realize in America that these people like Paula White, Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, most of our politicians in government who have power, who are in the White House praying over the president, they're Zionists.

37:35 They believe that 1948 Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfillment. He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, nobody's ever taught that. So this made me think: do Catholics in America are they completely into fulfillment and replacement? That's a good question. I can't answer for Catholicism and their theology on that. I know that when we were in Israel in 2005, we were very connected to and involved with the largest messianic church there. These were actual Jewish people who had embraced Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

38:17 And there's a thriving church up in the Haifa Bay area. Still there, going strong, one of the largest congregations. They believe that 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy, that there would be a day where they would be back in their land and they would, the land that they believe God, by scripture, promised them. And so when she says something so definitive as no one else believes this anywhere in the world, I'm going, you're wrong. Oh, but this is Christians. This is the enemy. This is the enemy speaking through her, obviously.

38:55 You know, I mean, I'm trying to have some compassion to it. I'm not trying to nail her. I'm just saying when you say those nowhere, nothing, no one, these definitive terms, you're using a very wide paintbrush and you're brushing these wide strokes. And I'm hearing that in the rhetoric a lot, where no one is seems to, I just did it. It seems like not many people are. I'll try to qualify my terms. Not many people. people are actually leaving room for the nuance to say, well, I may not believe everything exactly the way you say it, but yet I do see support for the truth or the idea in Romans, the book of Romans, that we as the Gentiles have been grafted into

39:44 the vine, which makes us partners and brothers and sisters. And then I look in Ephesians 2 and I find, wait, the dividing wall has been broken down between Jew and Gentile. They are now one new man. So you can make a good case either way, but I think you can make a gooder, a better case for the C word that you wouldn't let me say earlier. No, I know this, this is where it's where it's open for you. Yes. It's the covenant. It's the idea of covenant theology where God made covenants with Israel. And we are now. Now, she used a word that I would use that we're in this long narrative.

40:27 You look at the narrative of the scripture. And a lot of prophecies are now fulfilled now and fulfilled then. So they're layered in nature. They don't always have just one thing. They're typically stacked. And so you'll see something happen then that pertained to that prophetic word being spoken, especially you hear Isaiah and all of them, Isaiah, Ezekiel. But there's also future implications. You get the book of Revelation and go, wow, he's mirroring back to Ezekiel. He's mirroring back to Isaiah. So it's both and, not either or.

41:09 And I think that's where I'm struggling. You use the word binary, where it makes this hard definition between either or and no room for both and. Well, that's what I had to discover. I thought it was binary. I thought it was replacement theology, dispensationalism. And the more I listen to you and the more we just had conversations, the more I realize, oh, wait a minute, you heard the keyword here is Schofield study. They say Schofield Bible, but we talked about this Schofield study Bible. And so the conspiracy theory, and this is my territory. You want to launch a conspiracy theory?

41:50 I'm going to look into it. So the theory is that the whole Christian, everybody in Christianity believed in the fulfillment and replacement theology until this guy came along and here comes and he edited the Schofield study Bible, which technically, linguistically, yes, he edited a study Bible. People take that as he edited the Bible. Not kidding, this is the genesis of the problem and created this hoax, this non-truth, so that people would now be politically motivated to defend the 1948 state of Israel at any cost.

42:35 And this is the reason we're in the war and we'll pick up covenant theory all right after this short clip. Yeah, it's really scary. Well, it's yeah, and especially since we just wound up in a war thanks to this. I mean, it's hard not to see this as all preparation for this war, which is resetting the world. And they had to get rid of the only dissenter of that, of Zionism. They had to get rid of her on this commission before the war. It was within weeks. This is the enemy's best, best move ever. He has made people believe that because of this non-binary choice, because when I look at Schofield, I had to go and look at the study Bible, Pastor Jimmy.

43:20 This became difficult for me. He actually talks about covenant theory in there as well and rejects it out of whole cloth. No, no, no. It can only be dispensationalism and it's these periods. So I'm like, oh, hold on a second. So he doesn't even think, so they may have actually, that Bible, that study Bible may have been set up for some reason, possibly, but nobody's talking about covenant theology, which to me, it's right there in black and white what God has, through man, has written in there. This is not something from 19, you know, from the late 1800s.

44:05 It's not from a study Bible. This is from the original. This is not somebody's opinion about that. No. And for people now to use this as the excuse, oh, this is why we're going to war. Excuse my French, bullcrap. No. It's about oil. oil. And this is a sideshow which is hurting. I think it's hurting believers who want to just like, and we learned this from our buddy Joe, who wrote in and said, What do you mean you support Israel? Yeah. Yeah, that was good. I'm glad he did. It made us think it through. Yes. And I think this was God bringing us to this point. Like, can we just discuss what is really going on here? And from your theological standpoint, which I believe is the same as mine, I'm not a theologian, but I'm a Jesus freak and I can read.

44:53 Like, we pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I play for peace in the Middle East. Absolutely. If the 1948 Israeli state is part of the fulfillment of scripture, hallelujah. That doesn't change my opinion of war or killing people one way or the other or a government. Do I even like my government here in America? That has nothing to do with it. Is that a correct way of saying it? Well, eschatology, your viewpoint, and there's dozens of them out there, but we've talked about the top three in terms of Israel.

45:33 It does frame what you say, it frames your worldview, but it doesn't have to change your worldview. And here's the thing: we've got to be able to think and talk about these things and have good conversations about them as opposed to coming in, well, no one does this outside of America or outside of the White House, is the way she made it sound. They're the only ones. I mean, this is the broad stroke language is completely what's been so frustrating over the last few decades in America. Where if you don't agree with me on every point, then you hate me. You know, it's just, it's more of that type of rhetoric. But now it's been drug into theology. It's been drug into Christianity. It's been into the faith realm.

46:16 So now faith becomes a weapon again for the first time. And I believe it's a weapon, political weapon, to break apart the conservative right. Absolutely. Which is probably a work of Satan itself. Like he has fingerprints all over this for 150 years. You know, at the end of the day, we need to be honest about things. Does my theology, and the word theologist, all it means is logicking about theos, theos, God, it's a Greek word, Koene Greek. Theology is the study of or the logicking of the thinking about God. The scripture tells us we've been given the mind of Christ. Now, it doesn't mean we're using it, but we've been given it.

47:00 You know what I'm saying? It doesn't mean I'm always tapping into it. There are days I'm not. There's weeks I'm not. But at the end of the day, if we will pause and say, Lord, your word says that I've been given the mind of Christ. And it also says I've not been given a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of a sound mind, the ability to think well. Lord, I want to apply these things. I want to apply this truth to me as I think about, as I pray about, as I read, as I study, as I ask questions. And yet, what we see are these bold bulldozer type. It's not a conversation. These are just a series of monologues that are out there, especially on podcasts.

47:41 Yes. Where we are. Instead of people being humble and saying, you know what? Prove me wrong. Help me understand. Maybe I'm not getting it. Maybe I don't know the scripture. I'd love to hear Tucker say, you know, I really don't know the Bible. I'm new to this. I'm learning. But for him to say blatantly out loud with passion, it's on every page. I mean, it's just shocking to me, the lack of humility that we should be approaching these things in. I see covenant theology as, I don't even know if it's a blend or a hybrid, but it's the middle ground of saying there's this beautiful narrative of God coming to earth in the form of his son, Jesus, to redeem the mistakes, to redeem

48:30 the sin, to redeem the mishaps and missteps of mankind. Now, how that impacts Israel, how it impacts anybody, at the end of the day, it impacts every human being on the planet. So can we set some of this stuff aside and talk about the real issues here? And it is this: Is Jesus Christ who he says he was? Is he the Messiah? Is he the one they waited so long for? Well, according to Simeon, the prophet who held up baby Jesus like Mufasa, holding him up. I get to hear the song, right? Who waited his entire lifetime to see the fulfillment of the Messiah coming?

49:11 And he came. And can we focus on what needs to be done? needs to be focused on? But what I'm seeing in podcast land, and I heard a pastor say this recently on his platform, is they're not building anyone up. They're in the business of tearing people down for likes and clicks and sponsors. And it's like, what happened to being a life-giving force on the air or on in podcast world on the internet of saying, let's build something up. Let's build something good. And that doesn't mean disparaging everybody who doesn't agree with you.

49:49 So that's where my struggle is when we get into these arguments over which kind of theology you're living in. But I hear what you're saying because whatever that is, it frames how you see the world. It frames how you interpret a war where Israel and America seem to have partnered up. A guy who did 11 tours in the Middle East whose wife was killed by an IED in Syria. She was also military. He just quit his job because he is convinced that Israel dragged us into a war that we were supposed to fight for them.

50:32 This breaks my heart. Wow. That's the level that it's come to. And so when Matt Long has a question like that, how can we, as believers, address this without showing a binary choice? And also, I would say to someone like Tucker, like, if you know the Bible so well, perhaps you need to look at the, you know, what's in your own eye when you're trying to get the speck out of someone else's. You know, it's like we can talk all day in Proverbs and different scripture about who's right or who's wrong. Right. The compassion has been thrown out the window, and it is the enemy who just wants the world to hate Jews and Israel because that is the result.

51:20 So that has to be, that has to be the mission. And that by itself tells me that prophecy is underway and it's trying to be stopped by the ongoing war in the heavenly realm. He substantiates prophetic narrative. Can I just share something about covenant theology? Covenant theology sees the whole Bible as one unfolding story of God's promises to his people. So there's continuity in this, often highlighting continuity, like the church being grafted into the family of faith. That's something that a lot of people forget is that we are not the vine. We were grafted into it. And that puts us not first, it puts us with.

52:06 See the difference? Replacement theology, though a controversial label, suggests the church fully replaces Israel and God's plan, meaning the promises of Israel to Israel are now only fulfilled in the church. Covenant theology, however, usually sees a role for both, more of a grafting in rather than a replacement. This is why if I had to identify and say, I'm this, which I'd wrestle with that because I'm all about definitions and nuances, and it's almost dangerous to say I'm this. It's like buying a prefab home. You didn't choose anything. You just stepped into what somebody else built. That's why I struggle with a lot of these labels. But what I would say I'm more closely aligned with is covenant theology.

52:49 And it's because of Romans, the book of Romans, about being grafted into the vine and that we're to be thankful for that and thankful to the Jewish people for that. So there's a lot of things going on here. I want to share a couple of things. Listen to what, and this is out of 1 Peter chapter 2, and it talks about this. It says this, but you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession. Now, you just read that without any context. A lot of people are going to say, oh, well, that's Israel because that's from the book of Ezekiel.

53:32 And then you have to come back and say, actually, this was written to the church. This was written to who were both Jews and Gentiles. That's why in this is why in Ephesians chapter 2, listen to this, 14. For he himself is our peace. Christ is our peace who has made us both one. And he's talking about Jews and Gentiles. He has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility. So to me, when I read that, I don't see either or. It's It's either

54:11 that's the binary thing. I see it as both. And that's the continuity of covenant theology, where, yes, God still has a plan for his people. And will I continue to pray for them? Absolutely. According to God's word, I'll stand on that and pray for them and ask God to save them because it says until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Well, it hasn't been fulfilled yet because evangelism is still happening. The Great Commission is still happening. So, in the meantime, I pray for the redemption and the salvation of Israel and Jerusalem, of course, that they would come to know Jesus Christ as Savior. I don't mean that to be offensive to any Jewish person. It's from a heart of love, it's from a heart of compassion.

54:57 It's from a heart of somebody who was not always a Christian. You know, a guy who, like you, later in life, came to Christ and was like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. And then, as a new Christian, you're looking out going, what are you guys fighting all about? Why are you guys fighting all the time? We got business to do. We got work to do. We have a good year with everybody else, but we're going to sit and you made a comment. This side issue, this side thing or sidebar, whatever you said, something earlier. And that's really what happens that these sidebar things become the main thing which distracts us from the real main thing. Yes. And that is sharing the love of God, sharing the mercy of God, the grace of God, the heart of God.

55:42 And my world. My Jewish friends, Israeli friends. I'm looking at you, Sir Brian. I love that guy, by the way. What I love about him is we can discuss, I can discuss Christ with him, and he'll just say, oh, yeah, you know, just so just so you know, we see him as an insurrectionist. He wasn't the guy. And we can move on from there. And we can move on. It's not a hate conversation. And it's not like I'm not praying for him. He's praying for me. We are. And that's what's beautiful. It's just so unfortunate that our culture, particularly in America, but also in Europe and other continents, is obsessed with this.

56:24 And unfortunately, I've seen the results of how some of this ends up, and it's not pretty. And then everyone was, oh, that really sucked. We shouldn't have done that. We shouldn't have killed all these Jews. And let's reboot and we won't do that again. And it gets so bad where, you know, you get restrictions on freedom of speech, which are kind of creeping in very slowly, which I'm a little nervous about. I mean, to say to a university, you can't have this kind of speech going on or we won't fund you is like, that's borderline. It's almost the problem in the opposite. Yeah. Almost like overcorrection. It's like overcorrecting wokeness.

57:04 Like, no, no, no, we can't have that either. So there's all these issues when ultimately, and this won't happen in the next four years, but I think we'll see that President Trump did a very courageous thing. If he pulls it off, and he believes he will, we could see an incredible flourishing of peace in the Middle East. And prosperity. Prosperity for all, including the Iranian people. Exactly. And the Syrians and Jordanians and Iraqis. And it really could get to a great place. He did an amazing thing. I just have to mention this. Did you see the State of the Union where you probably saw the clip where he said, if you think Americans should be supported by the government over illegal aliens, stand up.

57:51 Yes. And half of the Democrats award didn't get up. He, in essence, did the same thing. He said, anybody who thinks that we should be taking down this regime and opening up the Straits of Hormuz and keeping that safe, send your ships over. He said that on Sunday. On Monday, he said, well, there you go. You guys are no good. We'll remember. What that was, was we're taking away that premium of $15 on a barrel of oil. We're going to take that. We're going to secure it. We're going to ensure shipping. Now, he's not there yet.

58:29 I'm just going to pray for him that he gets to. He's systematically deconstructing systems. He's pulling apart a very old worldwide financial globalist system. Powerful. And instead of seeing that and praying for him and for our military men and for everyone in the conflict, we're obsessed with this with this one issue that is all ultimately meant to influence the midterm elections. Can I settle something? Please do. Can I just kind of go to the end of the story? I pulled the Paul Harvey moment here. Yes, sir. Romans 11, 25. and 26. This is where in these arguments, whether it's Tucker and this lady or Tucker and whoever.

59:12 Everybody. It seems like Tucker and everybody right now. He's always talking about this. No one has ever pulled this passage up. Romans 11:25 says this. This is the Apostle Paul in his completely amazing, epic work, theological work, Weight and Gravity, the book of Romans. It's great. It is big. He says, I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited or arrogant. Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. Boom. So, right there, God, in his plan, which is bigger than we can even wrap our minds around,

59:57 he puts a cap on Israel, not to punish them, but to create an opportunity for us to come into the same blessing. This is huge. This goes back to the grafting and the vine. But listen how he ends it: verse 26. And in this way, all Israel will be saved. As it is written, the deliverer will come from Zion. That was Christ. He came out of out of Israel. He will turn godlessness away from Jacob. He's saying that because the Israelites, in a sense, were forced to participate in the fullness of the Gentiles, the Gentiles coming in.

1:00:43 He's saying, because of that great sacrifice, then they will be saved. They will be redeemed. This is what Paul was trying to help understand, and that it was a mystery because people didn't understand is why would God turn the Israelites, the Jewish people's face away from Christ? And it was in order that the Gentiles would be able to come in. And when that time is up, whatever that is, then he says all of Israel will be saved. This is where I go back to when people are just losing their minds over this stuff.

1:01:22 And I go, can we just read the end of the book? Let's read the end of this treatise of the Apostle Paul, who declares both is going to happen. The Gentiles are going to come in. The fullness. That's us. You and I are reaping that right now. But also, the Jewish people, Israel will be saved. It's all Igbok. It's going to be okay. My favorite coffee mug. It's going to be okay. God has a plan. He's working the plan. We can split hairs on it all day long and get mad and get upset and create 500 more podcasts. You know what I mean? Yeah. And get sponsors and clicks and lots and all that. But at the end of the day,

1:02:03 we're taking something that's already been settled in scripture and just pontificating about it and slaughtering one another verbally, relationally. Families are divided over this kind of stuff. That is not the intent of scripture to divide, although it does say, Father, we turn against his son. I mean, it does divide just by dividing. He came to divide his very nature. And yet he's the prince of peace. You know, for me, it's like, I don't portend. Is that the right word? I don't know what God's plan is. Jesus said he'd know when it was all going to happen. Even the Son of God does not know when it's going to happen.

1:02:45 So why would I even be bothered worrying about it? I've got a job to do. That's one job. And that is, you know, go out and make more disciples. I think that's the only job. It's not my job to argue about other stuff. And here's what we know. And I'm sorry to interrupt. This is very important. He is coming again. He's coming back. And that was the primary driver of the first century when they said of the disciples, these men are turning the world upside down. That was the driver. Jesus promised he would come back and they lived into that promise.

1:03:26 And because he's tarried, because he didn't, that doesn't diminish what it accomplished. And it should be accomplishing the same thing in you and me. We're 2,000 years closer to him coming back. And tomorrow will be another day, 24 hours closer, which means the further this goes down, the higher the probability of that this could be the day, this could be the year, and that should drive us. What it should do is create guardrails on our lives to say, I want to be ready. That's what the whole point of eschatology is. It's not to have charts. and graphs and numbers and all this stuff. But that makes for a great podcast. Well, it sells books. It sells books. It sells. It makes movies. It's all kind of.

1:04:08 There's a whole industry built around this. But at the end of the day, it is meant to be a driver for us to give us guardrails so that we are ready when he returns whenever that is. I'm going to end it on that, brother. I really appreciate your insight on this. Of course. And I hope someone out there got something from this and you can just calm down. Calm down. It's going to be okay. Yes. Igbo. And with that, we will land this plane. We'll be back next week with another episode of We Get To Do This. This is the life we've been blessed with. This is a gift we get to do this. This is a chance we did not miss.

1:04:54 This is the life we get to do this.