The Mistakes Men Make In Relationships with Matt Albiges

00:00 In this episode of the Team Superdad podcast, I talk relationships and the mistakes that men make with Matt Albiges, Role Theme. Welcome to Team Super Dad. Real dads creating their best lives ever. More time, more money, more fun. You are not alone. You're on Team Super Dad. Hey, Team Super Dad, it's Johnny here. Welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you back. If you're a first-time listener, then welcome for the first time.

00:35 We are Team Superdad helping dads around the world create their best life ever, transforming their health, wealth, and happiness through our Team Superdad program, through the Hero Academy, and through our monthly F5 accountability group. To those who are regular listeners, well, of course, welcome back to you guys. Thanks so much for the reviews you've been listening and the increasing number of listens on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, everywhere. If you are listening and you haven't left a review, then please go on over and leave us one. Apple, Apple seems to be the only place that really does reviews well. And over on Apple Podcasts, they are an important part of how podcasts rank.

01:19 So do us a favor, drop us a review over on Apple Podcasts. I just launched this week a WhatsApp group called the Pod Amp, which is a group of people, a group of podcasters. And we rate and listen and share each other's podcasts. So that's been exciting. It's also led to me listening to a lot of podcasts. Maybe not all the way through, but certainly a lot of podcasts. I hope, I hope that the Team Super Dad podcast is entertaining and keeping you tuned in on a regular basis. It's not perfect, right? It's not exactly how I want it. Today, you're hearing me on a new mic.

02:00 So I know this sounds better. The interview with Matt was actually recorded on the old mic a couple of weeks ago. So you will notice the difference there between the two mics. But going forward, my microphone at least will sound as awesome as this all the time. And the formats for the podcast, well, you know, I want to do, I want to get a group of dads together, a group of regular hosts so that we can have a bit of a laugh and a bit of banter, as well as more serious episodes with experts and specialists. You know, it's a podcast is supposed to be fun. Well, certainly I want mine to be. There's really no reason why even a serious subject can't be fun.

02:38 And something as fun as being a dad, well, that should definitely be a laugh. It doesn't mean we can't cover serious topics, but yeah. So watch this space. And if you're a dad who's got a podcast and want to become one of those regular guests or co-hosts, then get in touch. It's Johnny Jensen at Team Superdad or any of my socials, Twitter at Johnny Jensen, Team Superdad group on Facebook, anywhere. Just come over to teamsuperdad.com and send me a message. So on today's podcast, we've got Matt Albiges. He's a relationship coach. Him and his wife work with couples. He also works with men one-on-one, mainly men in, well, not mainly men in marriages, but mainly men in relationships.

03:21 That's basically how it works. And, you know, helping them grow in confidence and helping them create strong relationships with the person they love most in the world. So that was why I had him on. It was great to be connected to him through a couple of other communities we're on. And I really hope you enjoy this episode of the Team Superdad podcast. Every episode's about 60 minutes long. So that gives you some idea. Maybe a commute, maybe a workout. I don't know. Wherever you are, enjoy this podcast and all future episodes. I'll see you on the other side. Enjoy. Hey, welcome to the Team Superdad. It's another podcast episode. My name is Johnny Jensen, founder and creator of Team Superdad, the program for dads who want more from life.

04:10 We are here today with a guest I met through the Modern Man group, another great group on Facebook. And as soon as Matt and I got chatting, we hit it off. So let's bring Matt in. Good to see you. Hey, Matt. Do you like Matt or Matthew? We never actually clarified that, did we actually? I tend to go with Matt. Yeah, most people say Matt. Obviously, to my mum and dad, I'm always going to be Matthew, but pretty much everyone else calls me Matt. I know, Same. When you're in trouble, it's Jonathan. Matthew, put that down. Good to see you. Good to see you, Matt.

04:53 Brilliant to have you here on the show today. You're a dad, which is not always essential. If anyone has listened to the podcast before, you know, we've had some mums on, and sometimes your kids motorbiking around the garden. Is that the background? Can you hear something there? Like a bike track. Okay. No worries. Matt, you are the, along with your wife, run the man over matter coaching practice. And you're a dad as well, which we'll definitely dig into that. But why don't you introduce yourself and your current work? What you're up to? I will do. Thanks, Jonnie.

05:37 Firstly, thanks for having me on here. Super excited to share a bit about what I do here. You know, being connection, as you say, was great to talk when we first got together. And, you know, I work with, so the work with my partner is with couples, and that's under the banner of aligned with love. Yeah, so our typical clients there are couples in crisis going through relationship challenges for support to get themselves back on track, get clear, and so on. But in the way we work, I also do a lot of work with guys. Yeah, so because of all the branding around aligned with love, it's quite hearts and it's quite feminine focus because what's the people looking for is a women. So that's where man over matter came from because that's more like blue masculinity and that suits me much better with the work I do with guys.

06:17 So I don't need to be speak to guys under a big heart banner. So that's kind of how that got set up. So yeah, that's that's our clients really. So guys were going through separation, divorce, challenging relationships and helping them get set, you know, whatever the outcome is for them. Yeah. And also with couples, there's a lot of demand for that. Yeah, couples looking for support together, for which myself working as a coach with my partner who's also a coach and hypnotherapist, that's kind of what we do. Oh, brilliant. And what's her name? Let's give her a name, shall we? Rebecca. Rebecca, okay, yeah. Awesome. Do you know, I love that. I hadn't exactly clarified that when we're speaking, right? So aligned in love is the couple's work.

07:01 Man over matter is the work that you do one and one with dads. Well, with men, basically. So important, you know, and I really love when we talked about the relationship coaching that you do with couples. So many couples go into relationship coaching and just the very fact that it's two people talking to one person, you can feel like someone's taking sides. I mean, I think it must be very difficult for a coach to, or it's very important that a coach works hard, that the couple don't feel like one's taking sides. But I know speaking to a lot of dads, quite often, maybe it's just a gender thing. Maybe it's a feeling like already the world's against you, but end up feeling like, well, well, we had a woman coach and she sided with the wife.

07:43 And then at the same, sometimes you hear there's a bloke, a man coach, and he sided with the woman's moaning that the guy sided with the dad. So I think it sounds so powerful that you do that coaching together. I can imagine you do separate stuff and then bring them back together and separate stuff and bring them back together. Must be really powerful. Exactly right, Johnny. We have that comment so often that people have been through a single like coach or counsellor and had a feeling that it wasn't quite balanced. So that's one thing that we offer. Also, working together means we can do a lot of fun stuff like role play. You know, I'll just sit with my partner and we'll play out a situation right there. And the clients are seeing themselves in the situation, you know, where we're playing with an idea or a concept that we're talking about.

08:26 And it really lands in a way that I'd struggle to do that on my own. You know, role-playing on your own is okay, but doing it with someone else just really brings it to life. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. And tell us about your, you obviously, well, not obviously, but I know you're a dad. Tell us a little bit about your relationships. I also know that this is not your first marriage, etc. So yeah, tell us as comfortable as you feel, fit us in and give us a bit of a background because then I know we're definitely for people who are tuning in wondering what the hell we're going to talk about, we're going to do our normal just catch up like this and talk some dad stuff and our relationship things.

09:05 And then Matt, you're one of the speakers at the upcoming Team Super Dad Launch Pad event and you're going to be speaking on the common mistakes or the five mistakes men make in relationships. So we're going to dig into a little bit of that today, kind of because it's good conversation and I hope this is a value to people, but also as a way of a taster for that event in which they can get the full, the full, I don't want to use the word presentation, that sounds awfully boring, doesn't it? But they'll get the full session at the Launchpad event. Exactly. Yeah, look forward to that, Johnny. Thanks for having me on that as well. I mean, in terms of my background, I was in a relationship, long-term relationship, which is extremely uncomfortable.

09:49 And I stayed way, way too long. And part of my journey really has been working out what happened. happened there. How did I stay so uncomfortable, so unhappy for so long in that relationship? Yeah, yeah. How old were you when you got married? I was, well, I didn't get married at the beginning of the relationship. How long were you together? We were together for 16 years. Right. 16 years, of which you were married for five years. Right, okay, got it. We were living, we were together, we were together as if we were married. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, at the end of that, you know, I realized that something was like fundamentally not working there.

10:30 And it was interesting because I did a goal setting event at the beginning of the year. And one of my goals was, do you know what? At the end of this year, I need to know where I stand on this. This just cannot keep kicking down the road. You know, I was already in my late 30s by that time, mid to late 30s. And I was just like, this just has to, something needs to happen here, you know? Yeah. And it become toxic or was it just a bit love love? Was it a bit funless? Was it like it just polarized in the relationship? What was the classic sort of thing it wasn't working? I mean, the classic thing really was our blueprints didn't really match.

11:07 Yeah. So we didn't have the same vision for the relationship. That was part of it. So my partner, my ex-wife, you know, she had, you know, lots of great qualities, you know, but she didn't necessarily really see a role for me. You know, so there was a bit of a sense of, well, what are you even doing here? Why are you even still here? You know, you've done your bit. We've got the kids here. So what's this all about? You know, it just wasn't really in her blueprint to have a guy around. So it was uncomfortable. And then me, on the other hand, was up trying to make it work, trying to pacify, trying to pretend that things were okay. So, you know, she was dominant as well. So I'd take it more of the back seat. That's another classic mistake the guys fall into.

11:48 So I started going along with stuff, even though I wasn't really happy. And then that just gets a cycle that gets worse and worse. And so I'm feeling worse and worse, more demasculated, not really having a say, not having any power, even my own power. And, you know, the whole thing just breaks down. Yeah. And then I can relate to that masculine. I'm sorry about that, Johnny. Oh, go on, please. Oh, yeah, go on. Oh, I can relate to that masculine. We've got a little bit of a delay. We've got a little bit of a delay. Sorry, that's what's happening there. I can relate to that. And I know a lot of dads can. And listen, this is Team Super Dad is not just about people that have broken up, right?

12:30 This is as much part of about relationships working out. And this conversation today is perfect for that because we can spot what goes on in a relationship. Equally, there's a time comes when a relationship should be like, okay, well, we've actually, it's healthier to break up. So let's break up effectively. Let's break up before we put each other through three years of hell. And that, that, that feeling of, is, is it emancipation where you basically have your masculinity robbed, ripped out of you? Yeah, demasculation. Yeah, we would. Demasculated. So basically, that's just a feeling like you've got, exactly as Matt just said, you've got no place in the relationship. You feel powerless. And it's uncomfortable.

13:15 I experience couples really struggling to talk about this because the woman's like, what are you talking about? And the guy's like, I feel invisible in this. And I think that in a traditional kind of more cliched way, you feel that some of these things would be what the woman would say in relationships previously. He just goes out and does this. He expects me to do all the work. And I don't feel appreciated. And it's in the world that's going on, let alone me too and equality, which all has a time and a place important in their own right. But when that sort of seeps down into everyday relationships and suddenly men don't feel they're allowed to be men, then it's a new dynamic that is breaking couples up.

13:55 And it's really important if people are committed to their relationship, that they understand this and that they actually it becomes something they can talk about. How's it going for you? Do you feel valued in this relationship? How's it going? Do you feel heard? How's it going for you? Do you feel loved? How's it going for you? Do you feel like a bloke? Like, are you lost? If we could have had those kind of conversations, then it would have been important. I think also would have realized that perhaps we weren't suited. It's not until you're married sometimes that you realise that you're not actually that suited. So, and you had, so you obviously, so you're feeling not really included in the relationship.

14:39 You've got kids. How old were the kids when you broke up? My kids were, what, 15, 1511 15, 11. and 7, something in that region. Yeah, quite spread. Okay. And were you a dad coach at this time? Were you a relationship coach or were you anything at this time? What was your job at the time? Yeah, that's how I was moving into coaching, but I hadn't focused in on relationships particularly. I mean, it's a good job because I was such a disaster. Imagine what I would have been saying to people. I have no idea what I would have been saying at that time about trying to make it work, trying to accommodate your partner. I've no idea. It doesn't even bear thinking about. But no, I was moving into NLP.

15:21 I was quite interested in helping people with trauma, getting focused around their goals. So there was stuff I could share around the work that I'd done. But I was exiting from a sort of career, which I'd done for a while, which was good, but didn't really fulfill me that much. Johnny, I came to the end of a role and ended a bit unhappily, really. But then I had the chance to re-evaluate and decided that I wasn't that happy doing that line of work anyway in a more corporate environment. So it was a good moment for me to be re-evaluating that stuff and finding something more rewarding, which I did. Awesome. So, and how has it been? Obviously,

16:07 breakups are tricky, right? Especially when there's kids that are teenagers. It's even sometimes easier when the kids are younger because they love their parents and it's a change in routine, but they're not necessarily feel like they're aggrieved or take hombrage with one parent or another. Share as much as you feel comfortable with. But for any other dad that's going through this and has got teenagers, I've got a couple of close friends in my life who've got teenage kids and they're just going through it through a breakup. How did you manage the teenagers? Well, it's a great point, Johnny, and it was quite different with the different kids.

16:48 So the younger ones, as you say, was fairly okay. They had their moments, but generally they just wanted to spend time with me and hang out with me and do the stuff that we always did just in a different place. And it took a little bit of time to get used to it, but they were quite on board with it. They just accepted it. That was the two younger ones. But the older one, as you say, he was more into that teenage zone of really wanting to be more like a grown-up. And in his case, the part of being a grown-up was really about taking sides and feeling that he had his own strength, had his own point of view, really about things. He had a view on who was right and who was wrong and who he wanted to be engaging with and who he didn't want to be engaging with. And, you know, in that equation, I came off badly. You know, I came off

17:33 not really, well, I don't really have much connection with him, to be honest, Johnny, which is, you know, sad, sad situation. But I've got to own that really. And I can see that particularly when he was younger, was probably the time where things were the most toxic between me and his mum. So he'd grown up in this with this conflict around him. And, you know, you're bound to be affected by that. Anyone would have been affected by that. But a young child is obviously particularly sensitive. So, you know, I've got to really hold my hand up and own my part of creating that situation. But particularly, you know, this nice guy thing that I had going, where I tended to go along with stuff that his mum was saying, even when it was a bit abusive, like emotionally abusive,

18:16 I would just sort of put up with it and just ignore it, really. And I can see how that didn't serve anyone, you know, and definitely didn't serve him because he picked up on that dynamic. Yeah, and he took on some of that toxic behavior, unfortunately. So some of the things that his mum would say to me, he would also say, you know, and I didn't deal with it really from his mum and I didn't really deal with it from him. Yeah, so I can see there's a lack of that masculine quality, really, leadership, holding, grounded. I was just really trying to keep the peace, you know, Johnny, and that didn't work. And the end of the relationship was the ultimate point of failure for that attempt.

18:59 Wow. Okay. So taking this as an opportunity to help people out here, if a dad, I feel like I'm changing the subject, but it just seems like an opportune moment to if a dad feels that way in his relationship, he can feel that he's not really, as you just said, then taking a leadership role, he's not really feeling heard. What could some of the tactics or the what would he do to first recognize that and like as a check? Like, he's like, oh, yes, this is actually happening. And then how's he going to take that to his partner and talk about it? It's a great point, Johnny. And so the sign that this is happening, so you find this in all kinds of abusive situations, the same way women are being abused by their partner.

19:43 From the outside, it might be black. blatantly obvious that it's an abusive situation, but when you're in it, it's not necessarily obvious at all. In fact, you know, there's a lot of studies around this. The abused person feels quite attached to their abuser. You probably come across this stuff, so it's not necessarily easy to spot. But the things that I say to people to look out for is that discomfort, that feeling of something not being quite right. Yeah, just trying to tune into your feelings. Take a moment out of the stress. You can go for a walk, go for a weekend away, something, and just really tune into yourself and look for that feeling of discomfort and happiness.

20:23 And if you've got that feeling, then it's probably trying to tell you something. And at that point, I would say the best thing you can do is get a point of view of somebody that you trust, a good friend, a therapist, coach, whoever it is, and just talk the situation over. And through that, you normally come to a point of clarity. Right, because you're in it, it feels and looks quite normal, but it's uncomfortable because you're like, I don't think this should be this way, but I'm not quite sure if I'm it could just be the stresses of life. You're just like, the kids, we're busy, we're working, we're worried about money. Okay, things aren't, things are going to be stressy. But actually, taking that out and laying it out in front of someone else and saying,

21:06 does this feel wrong because this is happening, or does this feel wrong because something else is happening? Or, you know, like, so actually start to question, is there a problem here in my relationship, or is it just the stresses of life? So ask yourself that confronting question. Exactly. I think another good starting point, Johnny, as well, because the abused person will normally be told that it's all their fault. Yeah, so they'll probably be carrying quite a lot of feeling that, yeah, it's not working, but it's really about me. And I would encourage anyone listening that has been given that kind of a narrative to stop right there and realize that a relationship is a dynamic between two people. So if something's not working, there's inevitably something playing out between you.

21:49 It's not just going to be down to one person or the other. So any feeling of imbalance like that, where whether it's been something we've generated ourselves or been given to us by somebody, that's a red flag, right? Because, you know, I don't care what kind of bad behavior has been going on, there's always a dynamic at play. So, I mean, with my ex-wife, you know, I definitely had my part in this whole thing about not stepping up, not being present had obviously created some of the stuff that was going on. It wasn't just about my partner's bad behavior or whatever word you want to use for it. It was me as well. I was there as well creating. So, yeah, and that's the relationship unraveling, isn't it? That's the ball of string unraveling. Do you think it helps couples to have a

22:34 like a you use the word blueprint, actually? A really good word. If is it good for a couple to have a blueprint of their relationship and says, This is what we're committed to, this is what we're um, this is what we're a stand for each other. This is what we will accept, and this is what we won't accept. Not as hard and fast rules, but like I don't know exactly what I'm saying, but it is a blueprint for this is what I want, this is what this is our vision, this is what I want from our relationship, this is how I want to feel in our relationship. So, at any time, if the two of you can create that together, that probably suggests that your relationship is quite solid anyway. And then come back to it on a monthly or bi-monthly basis and just say, How's this going for you?

23:14 Do you, are we, are we on, are we on track here? Do you feel heard? Have you got a part-time job? Did you are you playing football at the weekend with your mates? Have you taken the kids? So, there's like a this is what I want our relationship to be like, this is what I want to feel inside of it. And then, when it's not that way, you get to question it. I completely agree, Johnny. That's a great, great starting point for guys and anyone, really. And what I say to men is you really need that even before you go into the relationship to say, you know, what needs to happen for the relationship to work for you? You know, what's your partner going to be like? How is it going to be together? Yeah, because only really once you've done that can you invite your partner to join you, yeah.

23:56 Otherwise, the danger is that it's a bit like inviting someone to dance and then stepping up on the dance floor and then realizing you haven't got any you haven't got any dance moves and just stand or worse, they're doing hip-hop and you're doing balaric or something, exactly. It's not going to look great, right? But yeah, so it's a really great point. This thing about having the vision together is uh really, really important, and um, it obviously can change as well over time. So, it's a good point you make about keeping it up to date. And actually, one of the most common challenges, Johnny, is where people's blueprint either was never quite aligned, or maybe it was aligned, but now it's not aligned anymore.

24:36 Yeah, so they got together, let's say, you know, a couple they. they get together and it's all about having fun, you know, going out, meeting their friends, drinks, holidays. And then you move into a new phase, and one of the partners shifts and they really want to settle down and be more family-oriented. And the other one hasn't really moved on, or they're still stuck. Well, they still have the same paradigm. So, what you have is then a divergence of values, really. And that can happen quite easily, you know, unconsciously, mainly. You just get to a point where, well, we're a bit stuck here, it's not working. I don't feel like we want those same thing. But yeah, so this exercise you say, having a vision, blueprint, whatever word you want to use for that is really, really powerful.

25:18 Yeah. Yeah. And then what happens? This is we're getting into some quite heavy stuff here. I hope everyone that's listening is cool with this. And I know that actually this is quite challenging subjects. I like to try and keep the Team Super Dad podcast as upbeat and as fun as I can from time to time. So we might have to throw in some curveball questions. We'll have an ad break or something. But you know, if a couple are reaching this, because here's what I can see in this, right? To come to that point where you consciously become aware that this isn't working is actually really positive because you can either start to make adjustments to fix it or you can start to make adjustments to break up.

26:02 But far better that you do that rather than like fall apart on the inside and outside over two or three years. I mean, I think that I think that with that my now ex-wife and I, we could have probably broken up and saved ourselves quite a lot of heartache. Even though I'm still pretty certain that we actually really loved each other, it just wasn't working. And other couples could, what's the name? The famous couple who they call conscious, conscious uncoupling, they call it, didn't they? Oh, yeah, Gwyneth Paltrow, isn't it? Grineth Paltrow. It sounds a bit guffy when you hear it on TV, but actually, if you're in the situation, you're having a conversation like this, you go, oh, we could consciously break up here.

26:47 We could do this. We could realize it's not working and sensibly break up before anyone really gets too hurt. You're in the business of helping relationships come together. So let's go for the positive first of all. Where does a couple start when they actually realize things aren't working and they want to start making it work, putting it back together? Well, first thing they need to realize is that the symptoms that they're having, which is probably conflict, arguments, disagreements, a feeling of being unloved, you know, these are what I call symptoms, really. They're like the effect of something. They're not the cause. Yeah. And same with an affair, by the way. You know, we talk in chatting earlier, Johnny.

27:29 You know, someone comes along and they say, oh, well, the problem in our relationship is that so-and-so just had an affair. Well, not really, because that's like the effect of something that's already not working. So that's the first thing to say is to split the symptom from the actual cause. Yeah. And people get in trouble. And this leads into arguments, I know, but it's really important. Like if the guy's a bit of a player, then he probably had an affair just because that's what he does. But for many men, or women, I suppose, who have an affair, that affair would have been to ease the pain they're experiencing elsewhere.

28:06 It wouldn't have been an intentional screw you. It would have been almost like a cry for help or a fix to emotional pain in the left hand to go and get some emotional comfort in the emotional comfort in the right hand. You get the vigorous speech. But a relationship over here versus a broken marriage over there. That's awkward. But funny. Yeah, that's important to distinguish. So yeah, so this we're getting to the court so that they're identifying that there's pain going on. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And that's a big step forward, as you say, to realize that. And yeah, so that's the first thing really to acknowledge that the symptom, there's something under the bonnet.

28:50 It's a bit like, you know, you're driving along in the car and the warning light starts flashing. You know, one way of fixing it is to put a little bit of tape over the warning light, right? You don't see the warning light anymore, but you haven't really dealt with anything. You just don't see the warning light anymore. So that's how a lot of people tend to come at things. They say, oh, we're having a lot of arguments. Can you sort of mediate in the arguments? But that's virtually never really a long-term. Even if you fix that particular thing, you're just going to argue about something else the next time because the dynamic isn't right on some level. So that's what we need to drill into to really get to a solution. And, you know, what does that, if someone's, if a couple's having that conversation, you know, I think clearly going and finding a good relationship coach.

29:35 couples, relationship coaches is the best that you can do. You don't have to start that level, but I know myself that after the casual sort of church support that we got and advice from some friends, we needed professional help and really good professional help. I think, you know, a scenario like what you offer with your partner could have been really helpful. But what are some of the practical things? If a couple are trying to sit down and make some improvements themselves, what are some of the things that they could do? What are two or three things that they could actually do? So we've reviewed the blueprint. That's an important way as well. What perhaps if they're feeling like we're not having any fun, we argue all the time.

30:18 And obviously sex is another classic one. But what are some of the practical things a couple could do themselves to start to fix things? Yeah, sure. I mean, one thing that's really important is that when we start feeling bad, when any resentment comes in, that's really a symptom that some partner or other isn't meeting their needs on some level. So we need to think more about what do we need to really be showing up feeling good. And often, not always, but often it can be about putting ourselves first a little bit and doing what we need to do. And one great thing that a lot of guys forget to do is that when we're adolescents, we're not hanging around with our friends.

30:57 We go out and do stuff together with our peer group. And then we get domesticated and we tend to lose a bit of that contact with people. So what I really encourage guys to do, and women as well, respectively, is to develop and cultivate great same-sex peer groups. So guys hanging out with guys, women hanging out with women. And as you know, Johnny, I've just come back from an event which is designed really to help people meet this need because it's a thing called Men Fest where it's a men's festival, men talking about men's issues. And what happens then is that you really reconnect with a part of yourself that you can get a bit detached from, you know, just in the domesticated situation.

31:42 And exactly the same with women, women getting together and hanging out with their female friends. Really, really great starting point to reconnecting with that kind of ourselves. Yeah, and that's like different buckets of our life. If the only bucket that you're counting on in your life is your relationship bucket, as soon as that starts to drain, then the rest of your life is going to look really, really tricky. But to understand your own hobbies, your own fitness, your own social life, your own interests, things that you do with one kid, all the kids as a family, these are different ways that we can make sure that we're whole and complete without that totally depending on our partner.

32:24 It's a great point, Johnny. That's right. Looking at things in the round, looking at what we've got going for us, how we can, yeah, strengthen every area, not just be overly reliant on the relationship. I think that's a great point. So what I'm taking from this actually is that the question was, what can a couple do to sit down and start to make some improvements? And actually, it seems that some of that conversation is going to be about what do I need to take responsibility for to feel happier in my life? Where am I feeling unsatisfied, not just in the relationship, but in these kind of areas? And for the other person to really hear that.

33:00 So if they say, I'm just a bit bored, I don't feel like I have any fun. Okay, great. So we're going to make sure that you go out and hang out with your mates more and go and do some more of this. That, okay, so what happens if the bloke is constantly in the pub? This is a bit old-fashioned, but what happens if the bloke's constantly in the pub and the wife's fed up with him constantly going to the pub? That, I mean, that's a real practical thing about why relationships are struggling. But he's so he's got to listen to what's upsetting her and again, take responsibility and make some adjustments. So rather than it being he's at fault, actually, it could be considered that he's not spending enough time with the kids.

33:39 He could be not spending enough time with her. These are things where if you're looking at the different buckets and different scores, his pub and mates bucket is overflowing to the detriment of some other buckets. So I guess that's where some adjustment can come in. And that's easy when you look at that way, it becomes less about blame and more about can we bring some balance across these different areas. Exactly, John. I think balance is a great word that you just named there because, you know, which is right to look after yourself or to look after other people? Well, they're both right, but it's only right if it's in balance.

34:16 But the person in that situation that you described where they're always down the pub or looking after themselves, they're never home to help the partner or help the kids. The stuff they're doing is good. They're not doing anything wrong, but the issue is more about balance. balance, as you say. And, you know, by talking about balance, you can avoid arguments then as well. You can, if the conversation is about balance, that's not about you did this and I did that or blah, blah, blah, blame, blame, blame, blame. It's about right, let's have a look. And have we got balance in this in our life? Exactly, exactly. And what often happens, Johnny, as well, is that in that situation, so the partner who is very good at looking after himself, let's say it's a guy, just for example, it may be the woman, but let's say it's the guy.

34:57 So he's a bit out of balance that way, sort of a bit too focused on himself. And odds on, his partner is a bit balanced the other way, sort of out of balance the other way. So she's more focused on looking after other people and she's neglecting herself a bit. Yeah. So in that scenario, you could say that, well, maybe you've got something to learn from each other a little bit. Maybe, you know, you need to look after yourself a little bit more and you need to think a bit more about other people. And somewhere in the middle, there's a happy, happy balance. Yeah. So that's what came to mind on that one. Okay, right. So, well, here's a good one. What about date nights? Because it gets rolled out as old date nights stick it in.

35:42 When I got to the point in my things going wrong, where date nights just used to piss me off because I was like, how can you be shitty to me for six days a week and then nice to me on one night? Like, I'm all in for date night, but I'd quite like actually just an even, like, I'd quite like to get on for the rest of the week as well. Are they a good starting point to fix things, or can they be another flipping pinch point? I would say for most people, it's a really good starting point. At least ask yourself, you know, are we making, are we making quality time for ourselves there? You know, because if we're not, then the danger is we're just like co-parents, just dealing with the chores and the kids, and it doesn't really feel like a relationship.

36:21 So, yeah, having that quality time together is good, but I definitely get your point that it's only going to feel good if the dynamic is right. I was been to a couple last night and the guy was saying, Well, I have proposed like to go out for a meal, but to be honest, when I did it, just the idea of it just pissed me off. You just said, really, because you know, just the dynamic isn't right. So, yeah, sitting opposite your partner with a look on her face like she just swallowed a wasp while you're kind of going through the motions of date night, that probably isn't going to feel that great. But in principle, for most people, yeah, spending a bit of quality time together is really good. I'm going to do this, I'm going to do a podcast. I probably might make it an expert hangout, or I'm going to do something about

37:04 successful date night. Because clearly, it's a great idea. It's a great thing to do to on that regular basis, go back out and just be one-on-one and have some good times together. I don't know, find a new hobby, watch a movie. Well, movies are good, but you end up just sitting there in peace. If you're going to go to a movie, go out afterwards and at least have the chance to chat about the movie. Don't just go to the movie and then go home. You've got to spend some quality time together. Yeah. But yeah, we're going to have a lot of, I can do that. I'm going to make a note of it. Some date night tips, date night tips. So, okay, right. So, let's go to the other end of the spectrum. You've looked at your blueprint, you've sat down, you've checked on where the balance is across life, you've talked about some things that you'd like more or less of, and you realize that you're still miles and miles apart.

37:54 How do couples sensibly start a conversation about breaking up? Yeah, when they, well, so that's uh, the thing about values is true, Johnny. It's really hard to really overcome that one because I had a couple I was working with recently. The lady was a committed vegan, yeah, and quite militant as well, actually. And but her partner, you can probably guess where this is going, he wanted meat with every meal. I don't just mean once a day, I mean, morning, noon, and night. And so, that's a really tough journey, you know, because she's going to be waking up every day, smelling the wafting scent of beautiful roast beef, you know, running through her house or whatever it might be.

38:37 And, you know, eventually, you know, what I say is, you know, you could stay with anyone, but ultimately, would you want to stay with them? You know, is the thing that you're giving up is it compensated for by the good things in the relationship? Yeah, so where you've got really different values, then it's a tough, a tough journey. Yeah. And the other thing that makes it difficult, Johnny, is that, you know, we need to really, yeah, part of loving our partner is accepting them how they are. Yeah. So it's so difficult when we have fundamentally different values to not creep into a bit of a zone of, well, I'd love it if you only had meat once a day or maybe three times a week or maybe not at all.

39:19 You know, it's like your expectations just exude from you in a way. And then, you know, how good does that feel when our partner has a feeling that they want to change us or make us a different way? So that's not a great place to be. So, yeah, it can be quite often where values are really different like that. You can't find a compromise. There's no compromise there. You know, for both people to be honest about who they are, there's not really any way to reconcile that. But what you can have is coping strategies. But yeah, that's a call ultimate people need to make. Yeah, and there's the traditional interpretation of marriage and foot or death to us part.

40:01 The stigma that comes with that is kind of gone. The damage that comes with it now is when the breakup is very bad and costly and emotionally draining and mental health problems. That's when that's the real damage in a relationship breakup. To consider that as human beings, we do change and we do evolve, particularly with the amount of information in the world around us now. My wife became a pretty staunch born-again Christian. And, you know, I just want to put that out there as an example, basically. And just so that everyone knows that I can relate to this conversation. And

40:42 there is a time in that where people have to say, this has been really good up until now. We got, you know, we made it work. It was good. And as a life chapter, the chapters changed. And this is how we're going to consciously or sensibly turn the page and create a new chapter. Because that vegan and that meat eater, you know, that's made up or real, which is a really clear example of two people that are now on completely different pages. And they either completely accept that and love each other and they're fine, or they say, okay, this is the time to basically break up without stigma. That's right.

41:24 Yeah. Do you just people just need to pause for a second and imagine the difference between breaking up before the pain, breaking up before the children got upset and hurt, breaking up before all that drama? And they probably, if we could all go back to that, there was a moment where we kind of realized the moment we first had that thought, you know, you said yourself earlier about checking in. And if it doesn't feel right, then maybe, you know, maybe it's not. So you have the conversation, you explore whether it's right or not, and then be like, okay, this is sad, but we're going to sensibly break up.

42:02 Wowzers. So what about the people you work with in because I work with dads as well in this situation where they're coming out of that relationship and they do feel really broken? I know even in asking these questions, some of what we've already said is going to be the case, but they've got to rebuild themselves after this relationship, after the hopes and expectations of happily ever after. Where does a man, where does a dad need to start in terms of rebuilding himself after a relationship that's failed?

42:39 Well, it's always good to review, obviously, what happened. You know, what I find a lot of the time, Johnny, is people don't do this work that you're describing and they find themselves recreating something that looks very similar to the situation they've just exited from. So just going to say that it's really, really important when you're at this key pivotal moment, you know, because the decisions we make have a big impact on our journey, right? Let's say, you know, you've come out of one relationship and you've got an opportunity to go into another relationship. This is like pivotal, life-changing moment right there that can set the course for things to come. So really, really important to get clear on, you know, what happened, maybe the habits that really held you back in the past, and what you need to think about doing differently in future.

43:24 Yeah, what's going to really feel good in future in a relationship. But I would say a really great place to start before you really think about relationship is think about where you're going. Yeah. And don't necessarily assume that a certain type of relationship or a certain situation is going to be what you want because, you know, you need to think about where you are with your career, your projects, what you're into, and how that's going to unfold. Because, you know, if you're, I don't know, let's say your business is going to be taking you more and more internationally, you're going to be traveling a lot, doing lots of things, then, you know, maybe it's not a great moment to get together with someone who's very settled, you know, with their kids at school.

44:04 And, you know, just for example, you know, that might not be a great fit for where you are right now, even if you really love the person. So I'd really encourage people to step back and really take that, take in the scene, you know, take in the point where they are. Think about the chapter, as you say, that's closing. the lessons learned from that, what went well, what didn't. And to really step back into that, you know, what we call the king archetype, you know, the visionary. You know, think what is my life all about? What do I want my kingdom to be? Yeah. Yeah, and paint that picture. That gets weakened. Start to paint the picture. You know, a relationship breakup, as significant as it is, should leave quite a wide open space for something, some, something new.

44:47 So what kind of house do you want? What kind of relationship do you want? What sort of fun you want to have with your kids? Where you want to see your friends? How, like all the different things if you for hobbies, interests, like where they, where they all fit in, it is an opportunity, particularly if you've come out of that relationship where you are feeling like you'd had your balls chopped off, like you're feeling like just there's no man left inside you. Like, what's it going to take to put that back in place? Because it's, it's, I find it crazy sometimes that people have been so unsatisfied in a relationship and they moan about all the things that they would like. And then no sooner has one relationship finished, they go and put themselves in another one.

45:31 Exactly. We just run a pattern, don't we? We get stuck on a like a broken record, really. Just get stuck on repeat. And then the other thing I was going to say, Johnny, on that, I think it's really, really powerful. If people can do it, obviously people have got constraints with kids and work and other things. But one guy I was working with recently, he's separated from his wife. They're going through the divorce thing, but for now, he's still stuck at home with the wife, you know, and that sometimes it can't be avoided, right? We've just got to deal with our commitments. But I would say, if we can take the opportunity to get ourselves out of that environment, at least for a while, to step back from it is really, really healthy. Because, you know, the danger otherwise of us being pulled back into

46:16 a failing dynamic that we've maybe been sustaining for a while is really high. So you definitely get out. I would have loved to have done that. I'd have been like, if it wasn't for the kids, I'd have gone and run a bar in Goa for I don't know how long, a month, six months, five years, something like that. But I can see even in what you're saying is that someone's got to take the time to take stock and get excited about what they're going to create. Blind me. I think it's some people say it's extreme to completely chuck everything out. But if your job was an impact on your relationship and you don't actually like your job, then consider new relationship.

47:01 The relationship's over. Perhaps you're going to change your career. Perhaps you're going to change a lot of things. But to get excited about it, it can be such a negative time, can be such a painful, upsetting time. And people need to be with that and accept it. Like breakups are painful, breakups are hard, breakups are sad. But at the same amount, same situation, proportion an equal amount of time to plan for the future and get excited about what's going to come down the line. Because it's all made up anyway, right? It's just a game. It's like, have fun, make up one version. If you didn't, and then the next day, make up a different version, make up a traveling the world version and a staying here version.

47:42 And even if it can't happen, it's okay to play with different ideas because you might decide, actually, I want to live by the sea, which is just an hour away. It doesn't mean it had to be the sea in India. Yeah. That's a great point, Johnny. I love that. Yeah. And I was just going to say one thing that often crops up about people's worry about this situation is I'm not going to be able to see the kids as much as I could see them before. Yeah. And there are obviously real constraints about that. But the thing to remember is that, you know, quality is sometimes more important than quantity. You know, and if you've been in a difficult relationship, that time with the kids will have inevitably been affected by the dynamic going on with your partner.

48:24 So just, you know, and if you haven't experienced it, you might not quick, easily see it. You might just think, well, no, no, but time with the kids is in this relationship. And that's all you see together. But I love what you said about really getting excited about a different vision for how things are in the future. Yeah. And that, you know, even if the quantity of time isn't there, so what? You can compensate in other ways. So, yeah, that's a, that's a, you know, that is a topical subject, you know, with dads fighting for 50-50. And, you know, I'd spent four years fighting to have my kids an equal share of time. And, you know, that point did get leveled at me. I know it gets levelled at other dads about it's not about 50-50.

49:08 It's about the quality of the time that you have them. And it's, so I think everyone needs to decide for themselves what that looks like. looks like. But, yes, I also know other dads who, when they have their kids now, they still try and carry on, like kind of like they did before they broke up. So, I'm not wishing to judge any dad, but if you do become a single parent, and actually, that's not true, actually. Whatever kind of parent situation you're in, relationship situation you're in, when you're with the kids, be with the kids. Like, if it's if it's Saturday, then plan the whole Saturday out with them, you know, like go swimming, go bike riding, go and go to the cinema, like watch a movie at tea time, let them know what that day entails.

49:56 Because I think that really is about making that quality time. Um, equally, I know that what was important to me was waking up and doing the breakfast or even doing homework with them. I wanted, I wanted that to be a, I remember when daddy helped me with it with my with my homework and what that was like. So, I think, in answer to your point there, a dad needs to look at what his schedule looks like. He needs to talk to his boss, or if he is the boss, as a lot of people on the Team Superdad community are run their own businesses, he needs to talk to his team and look at what finishing at three o'clock twice a week means to them and find a way to make it all work.

50:39 Again, if if at all possible, where the relationship has ended happily, or you can create positive communication between the two of you for it to be a conversation like that, where the commitment is 50-50, but the practical stuff, it's my little, my little girl waving at me, where the practical stuff might not be 50-50 every week, but it ends up over the course of the year, like, okay, what we're committed to is an equal and positive relationship, even if equal doesn't always look equal. That's a great point, Johnny. I love that. Yeah, makes sense. Bit of my soapbox rant there, but there's so many dads in bits over not seeing their kids and desperately fighting to. So, just finally,

51:26 what are you up to now? What's the rest of the summer look like? What have you got planned with your kids? So, are you married to Rebecca? No, no, we're together. We're just together, right? So, that's fine. That's fine. I'm not sure whether I will get married again either. But what does the rest of the summer look like? Have you had your holidays ruined by quarantine rules or what have you got planned? Yeah, we've been a bit limited by quarantine. We've got a trip away though. We're going over to Stroud in Gloucestershire. We've got a little cottage there for a week, and that's going to be a lot of fun. Hopefully, the weather will be good at that point. My main holiday was actually in July when the boys were here. So, I had them in July, and now I'm kind of back at work in August.

52:07 So, we had a trip up to York, York and Yorkshire's combined sort of family trip with a visit up there, which was really fantastic back in July. And yes, I'm going to be mainly working. I've got a few more, yeah, this trip in September planned. But apart from me, you're going to be back at work cracking on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what are you, what do you and your boys like doing most? What's uh, what's what's what's their thing? What do you get up to together? Oh, they love being outside. I mean, they love being on their bikes, you know, being on the bikes is always an easy, easy win for them if the weather's good. We had a day sailing at the end, one of the time they were here. That was a lot of fun as well here, basically in Cardiff.

52:49 So, sailing is not a good option. And we bonded a lot of doing that, had a lot of fun laughing at each other, falling in and doing stuff. So, yeah, that was a lot of fun. Yeah, you know, they resist a bit being outside, you know, taking for a walk in the mountains and things they might resist a little bit, but when we get there, we always have a lot of fun. So, yes, yeah, that's the important people need to realize that is our kids' objections won't always be what they feel like when they actually get out there doing it. Um, yeah, I know, I know for me and my guys, we've always got out and about and done exercise and been very active, so it's not that hard to talk them into it.

53:35 But yeah, getting how they feel when you first tell them, isn't what they'll feel once you get once you get them there. That's exactly right. You get a bit of an objection, but the other thing I was going to say is I feel I've got a lot better now understanding their needs, you know, what they want, what makes it feel good for them. So, like, my middle son, for example, is very task-focused. He likes doing achieving. So, if you say to him, look, we're just going to go for a walk, he's like, the hell. I mean, why? Yeah. But if you have an objective, it's like, if it's like, oh, we're going to go and find this thing, we've got to go and discover this. I heard there's this amazing thing that we've got to go and find it, but you're going to have to help. right? It might be a bit hard to find. He's like, Right, yeah, let's go. I'm in brilliant.

54:15 And my younger one, my younger one is more like people connected. So, again, if you're going for a walk, that may be not that much fun. But if you're going for a walk and meeting a load of people, he's like, Yeah, who's going to be there? Tell me who am I going to be able to connect with. So, that's brilliant. Understanding needs to be that's a bit like the five love languages, basically, isn't it? That ties in. Is there a have you ever heard of a I'm sure you've heard of five love languages book, but is there one about like family? Is that I think there are some follow-on five love language books, aren't they? Like what your family needs? I haven't come across anything, Johnny, relating to the love languages. But the course I did a while ago is a thing called effective parenting, and they use a model to the kind of the kind of Tony Robbins uh world.

55:01 It's very, very similar to the sort of human needs and uh archetypes. There's a lot of stuff you recognize in there, but it's called effective parenting. The only thing I'm not sure if it's available in English, um, I we got the the Spanish version, they're based in Mexico people that do this, okay. But, um, I think there are, I can send you through the link to that. There may be a yeah, please, I'll put it in the show notes. I've just done a search, I've just done a search here. There's, I mean, you know, you search for effective parenting courses, a million and one things come up. But, um, yeah, I think the point I'm making is that in a relationship, the five love languages is a book that comes up in nearly all our podcast conversations because to understand what your partner wants and needs in terms of feeling centered and connected and loved is vital.

55:45 And to understand our kids like that is so powerful because otherwise, we label them as, oh, he just doesn't like exercising, I can't get him out of the house, he's a nightmare, as opposed to he just likes adventures. Like, it's a completely different context. It's completely different, it's a completely different feeling as well because it turns from being a battle, you're trying to convince someone, trying to get them to do it, but they just don't want to do it. Um, yeah, to actually do it to actually framing it in a way that they're thinking, right, let's go. I'm in, you know, that's a completely different experience, right? If you can get to that point, yeah, especially with teenagers, I know different dads I talk to, different friends. I'm heading into that zone right now. Um, they're like, She just spends a whole day in her bedroom, I can't, I don't know what to do about it.

56:29 Maybe the questions being asked are the wrong, are the wrong ones, and I know most conscient, most loving dads would have tried everybody thing on earth to get them out of their bedroom. So I know it's not that easy, but blind me, it's that's powerful. That's it, that's insightful. I got to know where to take it, but I'm going to dig into that and work on it. Brilliant, Matt. Well, listen, um, we've got the launch pad coming up on September 19th. Uh, that's going to be brilliant. We've we've covered a lot of uh in a roundabout way today the the mistakes men men make in relationships. Um, but on the uh on the 19th, you're going to go through that in a kind of a bit more of a here's here's the big ones, and here's the here's the

57:13 different ways of being or the solutions to that. Is that right? Exactly, yeah. Got five areas. We've touched on some of them today, Johnny, as well. I believe we have touched on most of them here. Yeah, we're going to be giving some more examples. Um, I don't know if there's an interactive element, Johnny. Is there going to be a chance for people to ask questions during that as well? Yeah, yeah, well, it's online, so it's going to be on Zoom. So, there's going to be total options for chatting, for raising their hand and asking a question whilst the uh whilst the sex session is going on. I've just actually seen there's three comments here. Um, we've got a little bit of spam on uh on on uh what's

57:55 what's it called on periscope, which we won't put those up. But the guy is commenting on the fact that neither of us have hair, so that's quite fun. I'll tell you, he says, He says, Girls hate ball guys, that's pretty much it. Oh no, he swears in his nose, we'll ditch that back at the end, but girls hate ball guys. The perfect opportunity for us to wrap this up. Um, man over matter, uh, Matt, and uh, love aligned. You know, I think aligned with love, yeah, sorry, aligned with love. I think both of those things that we've discussed today uh give people an opportunity to see a different outcome to the struggle that they're going right now.

58:38 So, you know, where can people get in touch with you? How can they work with you? Well, online, manoevermatter.net, aligned with love.net. That's a good place to start. We've got profiles on Facebook as well, put content up there. And yeah, message, message over. I'd love to hear from anyone wanting to explore any of the things we've been talking about. Epic, really, really great. Thank you again, Matt. This will go up on all the channels. we'll be up live as a podcast episode later so if you're watching it live and want that as a podcast then go over to any of the podcast channels if you're listening to the podcast then thank you very much it's been great to have matt on here and i'll see you after the end theme catch you in a minute cheers

59:26 Wow, that was awesome. Thank you, Matt. Just talking about those different buckets in life, talking about the mistakes we make in relationships, how we can be stronger and more confident as men in our relationships. Really great to have Matt on. And just to make that connection, really, I think that Matt will be involved with some of the Team Superdad coaching going forward. That's in the Hero Academy and some QA's inside of the F5. So if you're a dad, if you're listening to this podcast and you want more support, well, obviously go and you could work one-on-one with Matt, as he said in the podcast, or come on over to teamsuperdad.com and get yourself involved with any of our courses, the Hero Academy, the F5, or working one-on-one with me.

1:00:13 Next week, I don't know who we've got on next week, to be honest. I've got a whole bunch of episodes to edit and get out live. Now that we've got the new mic, that's going to be even more awesome. And I want to do some more face-to-face interviews, but that's been a little bit affected by lockdown. And who knows? Most importantly, it's about getting guests on that you want to hear. So if you've got particular guests, interviews, people for co-hosts, I want to interview some DJs. I want to get some famous people on, people who are dads and have had like challenging careers, whether that's being in the public eye, whether that's been working all night DJing, whether it's been doing something extreme like, I don't know,

1:00:55 working on an oil rig. Do you know, like, that's a dangerous job. I don't know if you've ever heard much about working on an oil rig. I've got to find someone who's got an interesting story, but you get the idea. You know, dads who've managed to maintain their relationships, their work, and having fun still, of course, with their friends and with their family. That's what it's all about on Team Superdad, transforming our health, wealth, and happiness. I'll see you on the next episode of the podcast. Remember to subscribe, leave us a review. I'll see you next week. Take care. Team Super Dad out. Bye. This has been Team Super Dad. Find us at teamsuperdad.com.